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'Lost' season finale aftermath

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This will take some processing. But here are a few immediate thoughts following the big Season Four finale tonight of "Lost":

Namely — the name Jeremy Bentham. It's yet another moniker on this show borrowed from real life. Bentham was a philosopher (a contemporary of the real John Locke...yikes) who, according to this early but dead-on "Lost" theory, proposed the idea for the Panopticon, a type of prison:

"The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a 'sentiment of an invisible omniscience.' In his own words, Bentham described the Panopticon as 'a new mode of obtaining power of mind over mind, in a quantity hitherto without example.' "

Discuss.

Some other notes:

In the continuation of our original flash-forward, when Kate backs up the car, they speak of Bentham. Kate says to Jack, "You believed him." Which implies that the impossible must come true in our bleak "Lost" future — empirical Jack comes around to spiritual Locke's way of thinking. It also is further proof that Locke somehow gets off the island. You know, proof other than his corpse...

Lots of spooky whispering tonight. Whispers in the jungle before the Others appear and slaughter the remaining mercenaries. Whispers before Christian appears to dismiss Michael from his duties, and his life. Penance paid, buh-bye!

Miles not only implies that Charlotte had previously been on the island, she herself later remarks that she's "still looking for where I was born." Another child possibly born on the pregnaphobic island? She's at least in her 20s. Who's daughter could she be?

Hurley playing chess with Mr. Eko. Nice.

Kate's dream about Claire, who shouts: "Don't bring him back!" Kate goes in to hold sleeping Aaron's hand, and she apologizes — as if she thinks Claire was chastising her for taking Aaron off the island? Or was Claire warning Kate not to return Aaron to the island in this upcoming journey Ben says the O6 must make back to the island?

Wherever that may be now...

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135 Comments

Richard Alpert is also the name of a philosopher of sorts. He is still living - now know as Ram Dass.

There is quite a lag due to the necessary approval process. I think it is interesting to think that Miles might be Sun's child, Mike, but that would only make him 18 years old, Sun had a girl, and he didn't take any increased interest in Sun or Jin? It makes sense that the red head might be Alex... It doesn't really make sense for all the characters that were on the plane to be versions of them self from different times. With how concerned the writers seem to be about answering questions, the answers can't be so complicated that the audience wouldn't follow at all.

Jenni, it sounds like you missed many episodes including the Season Finale

Marty, I'm not sure if we know anything about the time passage. We know that the doctor's body showed up on the island way before he died on the boat... But everything else seemed to happen within an expected amount of time such as the trips back and forth - but they did say to stay on certain headings. If Ben went to 2012 and Sun had her baby soon after she left the island and it was 2012 then the island itself would be in the past or Sun would have more than one child... there went my brain explosion again...

So here is a new theory - everyone is on the plane crashing and some of them look out the window and see an island. They all die and those who saw it, imagine that as their "Heaven" or "Hell" of sorts. The rest is just the flash backs and what if forwards that come to those who die!

Question.....How do we know that the island was once in a cold area?

I wonder if Sun's baby will also be required to return to the island. The whole next season will be about returning to the island. I bet the season 5 finale will be all of them finally returning. Will the same amount of time have passed on the island? Or did they unknowingly go though a jump in time like Ben. When the Oceanic 6 plus Bentham, plus maybe Sun's baby get back to the island, will it be years later on the island, or maybe just days, or hours? Do the writers of this show even know yet? Are they making this up as they go along?

If Sun got so rich from her Oceanic settlement, why aren't the other 6 rich? Is it because she lost her husband? Even so, I don't think that the settlement would provide enough money to be able to buy majority stake in Pak.
Poor writing or a loophole yet revealed?


Jin and the Panda. That episode was a mix of flash fowards and flash backs mixed up to make us belive Jin and Sun both made it but we then find out it was a flash back and Jin din't make it.

I think what makes Ben special is that he can make people see things. Like Locke seeing Walt when he was in the mass grave to manipulate them into what he wants them to do. He does this quite often to play with people's minds. i.e. Kate seeing her horse early on.

Locke's dad who sawyer killed was created by the "magic box" because Locke was thinking about him. It wasn't actually Locke's dad (the real person) but Sawyer wouldn't know that so he couldn't have told Kate to kill him - plus he wouldn't ask her do do something like that either.

The polar bears could be something to do with the temperature in the cave where Ben moved the Island. Maybe there are a series of tunnels under the island where a Polar bear could survive.

Maybe Richard does age but he is going into the past and future using the machine.

My biggest question is why was Jack freaking out about Aaron living with Kate (as much as he wanted to, he didn't want to visit Kate at her home after Kate's trial) just because he didn't want to see Aaron.... doesn't make sense... and Kate said, "If you want to see me, come to my home) and then in another flash forward he was OK with it as he was reading him stories... Whether or not he knew the boy is his nephew shouldn't even matter, why could he possibly not want to see him?

Just to prove that the panda scene was a flashBACK; it was the year of the dragon as the store clerk said. Year of the dragon is 2000 and again in 2012.

Sun had the baby long before 2012...

Richard Alpert is also the name of a "philosopher" of sorts. Still living - he is now known as Ram Dass.

Ok. A few things.

1. Who is Jeremy Bentham.
2. When did we find out it was Locke in the coffin ( I take it we are referring to the coffin Jack visited in the finale of Season3 when no-one else arrived)
3. Have a missed an episode cause I don't recall some of the stuff mentioned here happening. (Boat blowing up - Have found a load of dynamite but not blown up yet, but that would explain why Sun leave and Jin doesn't (along with Sawyer and Michael)and island moving. Been talk of it but not happened.
4. HAve some of you seen the final episode
and most importantly
5. IS IT THE SERIES OR SEASON FINALE?

The following people came back in time from around 2030 to 2001, to visit the island on which they were born or conceived:

Miles (Sun and Jin's unborn child)
Ben (actually Claire's son Aaron)

Also, Michael and Walt are the same person, and Rousseau and Alex are the same person. Hurley is Sawyer.

sawyer tells kate to ''i have a daughter in alabama(pause)tell her im sorry''. some guy on the web translated it and everything matches up. hope Jins alive.

I think the polar bears on the island that were being tested with figuring out levers might have been being trained, not experimented with. Perhaps the polar bears were being trained to use levers and other mechanics so that they could move the island like Ben did. After all they are large enough and strong enough, and it looked to be a cold place where ben was when he moved the island. So perhaps the polar bears were being trained for this purpose so that way a person isn't waisted: like Ben said the person that moves the island can never return there. Just a thought!

Jin/Panda Episode - once and for all!

For those who still somehow haven't gotten this episode - Jin's segment was a flashback, Sun's was a flash forward. Jin's segment was laden with clues:

- His cell phone was a model from around 2000 - way too big and clunky for today. He pulled it out once or twice in the store, and the producers made a point of letting you see it very well before it got run over.

- The shopkeeper told Jin it was 'The year of the dragon'. That sets the year at either 2000-01 (past) or 2012-13 (future). The past date obviously lines up better with the phone model, and 2012 would be too far in the future.

- The last scene of Jin's segment is supposed to make it obvious that his segment is a flashback, as he delivers the Panda to a client's daughter and says that he's not married yet. Keep in mind that he did work for Sun's father before he met her.

Some still seem to refer to Jin as either having amnesia or trying to stay anonymous during this segment, but there are too many facts that point to it being a flashback. I'm suprised at how many people didn't understand this episode.

I like the "nuclear" theory because I remember thinking how green and pale ben looked in the flash forwards.

Maybe the island alternates between poler opposites... there seems to be a lot of those in the show... And the people in between like Hurley, Walt, and the guy who senses spirits from the boat. Doesn't the earth wobble back and forth because of some magnetic thing with the poles or equator or some other thing I forget from school? They said in the beginning that it had something to do with magnetic energy... something like the Bermuda Triangle.

So was Jin getting the panda for his boss or a client? If it was for his boss then where is Sun's brother?

Why are some people told that they can never leave the island and others told that they can go? Does Ben just know that they will have to come back anyway? Is it the illusion of free will without there really being any? Micheal paid for his freedom but he was still being used. Did Christian let him go or let him die? We flashed forward to see him asking to see Walt again but we see Walt asking Hurley about his Dad staying on the island... At what point in the future did Micheal try to see Walt? I feel like I am just forgetting something here.
But why can't Walt just go back to the island and see if his Dad is there? Is the island/ Jacob just appearing as friendly people?
Didn't Hurley touch Charlie during his last haunting? Hey... maybe Charlie was blasted to Tunisia and staid at our friendly hotel. One can hope!
Why does everyone who dies work for the island? Especially if they are all already dead. Do they just not know they are indebted yet?

Man... I think my brain just exploded. The writers probably just have a few text books filled with theories and it is pieces of many so that we can never really "figure it out." At times I feel like I'm on a tour of theories that will probably have to end like The Sopranos. Maybe the island will just give up and transport them all back to their plane going down in the middle of the ocean where the second plane is. I wonder if all the extra's, that show up to end up on an abandoned raft, will be there lol

I think that Aaron is the heir to the island. They were trying so hard to bear children on the island. Christian seems to speak for Jacob to Locke and Aaron is his grandson. They need the island's chosen to return with the heir. I believe Claire gave birth on the island though I can't remember it right now specifically... and she was the only one besides possibly Ben's "daughter" which may have been his attempt to make a successor. That makes me wonder if Locke isn't related to Jack and Claire. He seemed to be the chosen heir since he was a child, though he picked the wrong items to be his - so he was never exactly right for the job. It seems that the island is very angry without its proper heir.

Not only does Sawyer kill him but he is John's father. So that begs the overarching question: Why and how are all these people so connected. Not only are they all on this plane but we've seen them all cross paths in one way or another in the past. They also seem to be the only ones that survived at times though they pepper in extras every now and then. So it would make sense if they are all dead and that really was their plane in the other ocean and the island just brought certain people from the plane from different times to life on the island for its purposes.

Good but on another note, anyone else agree - some of the worst CGI ever produced for Lost! really bad :(

Hi,
Sawyer already killed the guy who bilked his parents. Remember? It turned out to be locke's dad, and he killed him on the Black Rock.
Aaaand, when Jin was buying the panda, that was a flashback. When Sun was delivering the baby, that was a flashforward. Juxtaposing the two of them together and then following it with the gravestone scene was meant to a) confuse, and b) tug at the heartstrings a bit.

I believe the episode with Jin buying the panda bear was a flashback not a flash forward hence the revelation at the end that he has only been married for a few months.

So if Ben just got teleported to the future (Tunisia)... he already had a plan on how to get to the Oceanic 6? O man, this guy is just too smart.

Sawyer already killed "Mr. Sawyer" the con man. What he really asked Kate to do was something for his little daughter, Clementine. It was obvious that Kate was talking with a woman on the phone before she went to do it. Undoubtedly the child's mother. (And Jack totally over-reacted.)

Charlotte is probably a daughter of someone from Dharma initiative. She could have been away from the island for some reason at the time of the "purge". She clearly recognized the insignia on the polar bear in the desert. Also, the name Charlotte is the feminine of Charles (as in Widmore).

It's true that Richard doesn't seem to age. Perhaps none of them do! Richard's just the one we have been shown in the 1950's.

So "Jeremy Bentham" is dead. Hearing of this makes Sayid feel it is time to take action, and it makes Jack want to kill himself. What?????

Sawyer already killed the guy who bilked his parents - John Locke's father - who was brought to the island by Ben for John to kill.

Ben and the others used to leave the island whenever they needed to and I doubt that the submarine and the boat were the only modes of transport they had. I'm sure when "bad things" happened after the 6 left John had a way to come and find them.

Zappafan has a good point - just because we are seeing Claire or Christian on the island or in Kate's bedroom doesn't mean it is their ghosts - after all Walt appeared to John Locke when he was in the pit with all the Dharma inititive's corpses and we know he wasn't dead. Time travel makes everything and anything possible. With that in mind it is completely possible that something on the island saved Jin or Michael through transportation.

Speaking of Jin, when he was delivering the Panda to the hospital, I think that was in the past. I can't remember what it was but something gave me that impression.

Okay...I presume that Jin is alive. There was an entire episode that showed Sun delivering her baby and Jin was in that same episode. But, it seems that he has some type of Amnesia or something of the sort. As for Michael, I have no clue whether he's dead or not. Someone mentioned that "the island won't let him die" but then again Christian shows up and says "you can leave now." Maybe he was giving Michael permission to die?

Ben couldnt have time traveled back in time off the island before, he told locke that if you do this you can never come back to the island.

"Sawyer asked Kate to go find the guy who bilked his parents and had the note to give to in the first season. Oh, and kill the son of a b!tch. Duh..."

* He already avenged that. It was John Lockes father who swindled his parents. Sawyer off'd him in the Black Rock.

Getting back to the Jin Panda Bear episode... this was clever writing. The Sun flash forward was intertwined with a Jin flashback. If you remember, Jin was employed by Sun's father and did "jobs" for him. He stated that the gift was from her father and states that he is not married yet... this was the clue that leads us to believe it was a flashback.

no aaron because that guy was john's dad who (we still don't know how) showed up on the island and john needed him killed so he got sawyer to do it

"Sawyer asked Kate to go find the guy who bilked his parents and had the note to give to in the first season. Oh, and kill the son of a b!tch. Duh..."

That was done in the Black Rock (it was John Locke's kidney scammer).

This may be a bit off, but if we acknowledge that the prodicers and writers of LOST are science fiction geeks as well as history buffs, there is a Space and Time travel connection to the use of the name Jeremy Bentham (besides Bentham being a philosopher and a developer of the penopticon).
During the last episode of the season, during a commercial break, a friend produced a book off his bookshelf. The title was "Doctor Who: The Early Years" by Jeremy Bentham.
Doctor Who being the subject of continual Time-Space Travelling stories since 1963.

Widmore told Ben: you took me something was mine (the island). I think Widmore owned the Island and Dharma Initiative, and then Ben when he got to the Island and went nuts killed everyone from Dharma and now owned the Island. Obviously the Island has some kind of powers to make jump to the future.
Richard -the one who doesnt age- was with Jhon Locke when he was a kid, and was with Ben when he was a kid too, in season 3 I think Ben is looking for his mom and Richard shows up in the Jungle and Ben tells Richard he wanna go with him but Richard says :"its not your time Yet" And Richard is the one who interviewed Juliette in FLorida I think b/4 she came to the Island

The Jin panda thing-I didn't take that to be a flash forward at all...(I did at first, but not by the end.)

Sun's stuff was a flash forward, and Jin's stuff was a flashback. That's why he was still working for Mr. Paik, and the baby was a boy. (And I think Sun may have noticed if he was still the pay list!). The flashback/forward with those two was just designed to confuse everyone I think >

Have we seen the island move before? At the end of Season 2 when Jack, Kate, Hurley etc. are captured by the others the same bright light/loud noises occur as it did when Ben moved the Island. If it did move it didn't seem to go far! Still in the tropics, still in the middle of some big sea!

It was at the sametime Desmond turned the key as the hatch was imploding.... but then it can't have been desmond who maybe transported the island as surely he would have been teleported somewhere too? - You can't move the island and stay on it!

Also, again at the end of season 2.... what was going on with the two chaps working for Penny in Antarctica saying they'd found the island? Maybe the island used to be there (for the polar bears to appear), and Penny had tracked it to a previous location from where these two guys were then able to track it to its new location.

Sod knows. Aaaaaaall very gripping

i was just wunderin hoo was the guy hoo sed mikal shud leev the boat and then the boat bloo up da next sec???

Ok are people forgetting Jin IS alive?! you see him in a flash forward part of an episode.

Oh and in regards to this previos post...

"Sawyer asked Kate to go find the guy who bilked his parents and had the note to give to in the first season. Oh, and kill the son of a b!tch. Duh...

Posted by: Aaron | May 30, 2008 10:28 PM"

Sawyer killed the man who ruined his family, he was John Locke's dad remember?

was always abit confused as to how the others managed to get him onto the island, i think Ben said that Locke somehow brought him to the island.

was also curious about that test which Locke had when he was a child by one of the "others" who wanted to take him to a special school, what was the right choice to make on the objects?

What role will Penny play in all this going forward?

She's a target. From the flash-forward interaction between Ben and Charles Widmore, we know that for whatever reason, Ben can't kill Widmore. And he says that since Widmore had his daughter killed, the only way to get revenge is to kill Widmore's daughter - that's Penny. This gets especially interesting since Ben is using Sayid as his hit-man. Will there be a plot line involving Sayid trying to kill Penny?

In previous episode this season, Jin is shopping for a stuffed Panda for Sun who is in hospital having her baby. Jin delivers the Panda but did not identify himself as the Father but does find out, from some security types working for Sun's father, that the baby is a BOY. When Hurly visits Sun and they go to the cemetery, the baby is referred to as a GIRL. Could Jin have gotten off the island but must continue to hde from Sun's father??

Duh.. no he didn't. That guy was john lockes "father".

Jack says that he doesn't believe in miracles, however, miracles have happened through-out his life. One was the fact that his wife fully recovered from a horrible spinal problem after he operated on her. Then, he survived the plane crash. Also, he happened on Desmond one day and then found Desmond in a hatch on the island years later. His father dies and then shows up later on the island seemingly alive. He claims to be a man of science and not a man of faith, but refusing to believe in faith is now slowly killing him. It is little wonder that now, after finding himself deep in despair, and unable to bring about or witness any new miracles, he is starting to believe Locke/Bentham.

Great comments but some need to review the show again. This show is great and the philosophical and religious allegory are amazing. I have had to dig out information as to who represents whom over and over again. I understand the back and forth time continumn but there are a few things I am not sure about.
1.) Who is Jacob? Is he the Jacob of the Old Testament? Jacob's Ladder?
2.) Do the Oceanic 6 know about Charles Widmore's plans and that Penny is his daughter?
3.) Did Ben or Widmore plant the plane?
4.) When Ben confronted Widmore in the bedroom about his daughter, Widmore said something about the island had been his but now it was Ben's. Does anyone know what this meant?
5.) I heard from somewhere that the producers were both religious people a former priest and a rabbi. Is this correct?
6.) Why on earth did these amazing producers produce that thing about the guy "Something about ...." What a horrible show. Were they extorted to do it?
7.) If Ben's character originally was to be in only 3 episodes, how did they rewrite the story? Pure genius.
8.) Is next season the last season?
9.) Is Christian Shephard (or Sheppard) Jack and Claire's father a good guy, as in Saviour?
10.) What is the Black Smoke and why was Eko able to stare it down?

I love this show.. Great job guys...Thanks

Ummmm, Di, are you even watching this show?!? Did you not see the epi where Ben brought Locke's dad to the island? Locke's dad, being the same that conned Sawyer's mom, that's why both he blames Locke's dad for his parents death. I've read every single comment on here, wow...took me all of like 5 hrs, but I'm @ work so it's ok!! I LOVED the epi!!! This show always bends my mind into a pretzel every time, but I always CRAVE more!!! My only issue is why bring Michael back & he can't even have a reunion w/ Walt? It just seemed very rushed. That scene w/ Sun tellin Michael she was preggers, kinda odd I thought....I absoultely LOVE James AKA Sawyer! To see him be so selfless to jump in the ocean, to SAVE everyone on that chopper, take that Jack!!PRICELESS!I was sad @ first when c&d said that they have an end date for our beloved show insight...butwith this season wrapping up the way it did, I like how it's moving faster, they seem to know which direction to go now....ugh I'm going to go thru mad withdrawls till January 2009!!!!!

No, sawyer already killed that guy (Locke's dad)

Actually Sawyer already found out it was johns dad that conned his mom, which lead to his dad murdering her

Jin buying the panda was a flashback. He was buying it for a client's new baby. When we saw his grave the headstone had the date of the crash on it.


To Ron,

I think that Christian telling Michael "You can go now" was him speaking on behalf of the island, that it would now let him die. So that's probably the end of him. Which would be sad. That's a pretty messed up life he had there...

On the Ben transporting to Tunisia theme... Did anyone else notice that the antipode (opposite point on earth) of where Ben landed is where Oceanic 815 went down (somewhere near Fiji)

Check this link... http://www.ubasics.com/dighole/

It doesn't explain much but it's interesting nevertheless... Considering how much of the earth is covered in water it was a damn lucky landing!

What about the 4 toed foot? have they just forgotten about that? there have been loads of things just forgotten, anyone think of any more?

Sawyer sid to Kate before he jumped off the Helicopter that he had a daughter in Alabama. He said " I have a daughter in ALabama, I need you to find her and tell her I am sorry."
Later on in the episode Kate is awakened by a phone call of whispers. The man on the line was speaking backwards but when you hear the message in reverse he says "The island needs you, you have to come back before its too late."
Im excited to see where the story goes from here. Still soo many unanswered questions.

I don't see the logic in the island being moved in time? Ok the people might be moved, but regardless of the time, an island can't just disappear can it? I mean the area of land, the island itself.

And, concerning Jin and buying the Panda, I read on another site that that was in the past, to trick us. This was deciphered based on what year it was (what animal).

I hope Jin is still alive though, he's my favourite.

If Locke is a waxwork, how did he convince Jack that they need to go back? And when is Ben going to kill Penelope?

Ben landing in Tunisia with the same cut arm and jacket seems to certainly indicate the time travel theory, as well as him asking the year at the hotel. Good catch. I think I also remember a flash scene with Charlotte on a dig somewhere in the desert where they had dug up a polar bear with a dharma collar. I wonder if the dig was in the same area Ben teleported to, and maybe there are "fixed" areas the island moves to and Ben is aware of where these locations are, having seemingly been to the hotel before.

Jin didn't buy the panda bear for his wife... he bought it for the businessman's wife who was having a baby... the end of that episode made it clear that the panda event was a flashback before the plane crashed on the island. Making it seem like it was for Sun was a dramatic trick, exposed at the end.

Locke and Bentham (the real ones) weren't really contemporaries; Locke died 44 years before Bentham was born.

Doesn't anyone remember Jin buying the Panda Bear for the baby? I know he told the nurse he wasn't the father because he has only been married for a few months.

The scenes of Jin buying the panda were presumably from the past, not the future. If he were alive, and he may be, he wouldn't be rushing around cursing like a mad servant trying to buy a toy panda on behalf of his company (and missing the birth of his son). I think the point was too show what he was like before, when he didn't give Sun enough attention. The pesky writers just mixed it up with scenes from Sun's future to confuse us!
And the guy who caused Sawyer's parents to die was Locke's dad, who was already killed by Sawyer. Plus Michaei is surely dead as that's what "Christian" meant when he said "you can go now".

Anyone interested in participating in furthering the Dharma Inititive's objectives, can go here & sign up:

http://www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com/


LOL

JC

No, Di, Sawyer already killed the man who caused his parents death - that person was John Locke's father.

The polar bears were brought to the island by the Dharma initiative for experimental purposes.

Sawyer definately whispered something to Kate about his child or the woman who bore it and getting money or a message to them.

Jin is dead. Michael is dead. Everyone on the ship is dead. Dead on the island is different than dead everywhere else so who knows if we will see them again.

When Christian appeared to Michael, he said 'you can go now Michael'. I assume this meant that Michael's work was done and that he could die now.
And that couldnt have been what Sawyer said to Kate as Sawyer had already killed the man who screwed with his parents...it was John's dad..duh =p

I've often thought Quantum Physics or and Einstein-Rosen bridge theory could explain how they all ended up on the island, upon which the dead are made living, the paralyzed and cancer striken are made whole, etc.

If Dharma has somehow discovered a way to create a wormhole and that wormhole was opened as Oceanic 815 flew by, could it be possible that the plane which blew apart over the island and the "other" plane (the one the world thought was the wreckage of 815) were both actual Flight 815s, having split into two parallel space-time continuums?

I offer this because it could explain how the island moves (it doesn't move spatially, it moves in time. If the island moves forward in time, then to the island in the future would be invisible relative to the observer in the past (or present). I support my hypothesis with Danial's gadget and the rocket. When h calculated how long it should take for a missile fired off the island to reach them, the woman on the other end said the rocket should have been where they were standing, but it didn't make it to them until later.

Aaron,

Sawyer already DID kill the guy who bilked his parents and slept with his mother. That was Locke's dad. Ben revealed to Locke that his father had been transported to the island (how, we don't know). Sawyer strangled him when Locke needed to prove himself to the Others by having his father killed.

My guess is that Sawyer asked Kate to do something for his daughter.

Jin can still be alive because Farraday (and others) were in the transport boat. Farraday was taking another group to the boat, it exploded -- Jin could be in the water -- and when the island moved Farraday is stuck in the water on that little transport boat. That group can pick up Jin, though they have no place to land and will have to drift. Sun, however, thinks he's dead when she approaches Widmore. She blames two people for Jin's death, Jack and I suspect John Locke. So she would want to help Widmore get back to the island so she could get John Locke. I think she will go back with Jack next season, but at first will have an ulterior motive.

Why doesn't Claire want Aaron back? Even before the plane went down in the first season, she was told that she shouldn't let others raise her child. We've thought the Others were those "others." But maybe now Kate is someone other than Claire raising Aaron. The Island wants Aaron back for her to raise, but something has happened that she doesn't want him back.

About Ben travelling in time when he leaves the island - dont forget about the time displacement on the island, one of the theories daniel faraday was testing with a missle in an earlier episode in the season. It could be a large gap between the time he left the island and the time he arrived in Tunisia due to the distance he travelled, so maybe the island has moved to the exact opposite side of the world to where he landed in tunisia.

Also is it just me, or did the bright white light when the island dissapeared seem a bit like a nuclear flash? when ben threw up when he landed in tunisia, it did remind me of some kind of radiation sickness...

Sawyer already killed the man who killed his parents(Remember Lockes father, season 3).

Well the chronology was screwed up but quite a few of the qestions have been answered and the season has been made sense of.

But-
Remember Libi? Hurleys girlfriend?
Charlottes connection with the island.
Hurley seeing dead people?
And that guy who works for widmore and recruits naomi, forgot his name??

overall, quite an interesting season in Christopher Nolan style. ;)

"Sawyer asked Kate to go find the guy who bilked his parents and had the note to give to in the first season. Oh, and kill the son of a b!tch. Duh..."

Err, that was Locke's dad and Sawyer already killed him on the Black Rock.

Speaking of which, any theories on what the 'magic box' could be?

I thought Sawyer already killed that guy...I'm not 100 percent on this, but his pseudonym...Sawyer...i seem to remember that was the name of the man who conned his mother, he took the guys name after he killed the man...someone help me out on this

what happaned to the boat with Daniel on ?? if them lot are still alive jin has a good chance of surviving by jumping off and finding Daniel's boat. They may not of got back to the island quick enough before it teleported so therefore are still stranded out there somewhere.

I know I'm getting old but wasn't it John Locke's father who bilked Sawyer's parents and caused their murder suicide? Am I nuts? Did I make this up??? I love this show! ;>)

Jin with the panda bear thing? Remember, they made us think it was for Sun but it was not- it was for a business associate...when he was working for Sun's dad I guess...so a flashback not a flash forward.

I am wondering...if John Locke went around and talked to the Oceanic 6, he would have talked to Sun. Did she go to Widmore to try to use him to find the island again? To look for Jin? She's rich enough now- if she blamed Widmore for Jin's death, she could hire someone to kill him. So she must want to use Widmore for something.

Is it just me, or did Claire speak with a very distinct American accent to Kate in the finale? I thought it odd that it didn't sound like her usual Australian accent. Was that just because it was in Kate's dream?

Also, the Jin panda bear thing is silly. It was obviously a glimpse of the past, when Jin was still working for Sun's father.

But I like the theory of Michael being the father of Sun's baby. We haven't seen Sun's baby yet, have we?

And who says that John got off the island of his own volition? Perhaps he was taken off the island at some point, and then died or was killed later? Just thinking out loud....

After much thought, I don't believe Locke(Bentham) is dead in that Coffin. He had to come off the island, at Jacob's request, to get Jack and the other Oceanic 5 together, to get them "back on".
Remember Ben says the island won't "Let them on, unless all six are together"

I would also like to know how Claire died.(walking off in the middle of the night doesn't cut it)
Also; Why does Christian have such a large role, in how things play out, considering he was a corpse upon his casket hitting the island?
Is it because, Claire, Jack and him are all related?

Has anyone else noticed that both boat loads that went out to the freighter were all 'unknowns' to us except for Jin & Sun with Aaron? I never saw the first four on the freighter again. And not sure if Farraday and the last six got to the freighter or back to the island. Ideas???

Also the explosives they tried to stop were up at the front of the cabin of the boat... but the explosion seemed to come from beneath the open deck area. ??? That horrible scene of Jin running to helicopter & explosion could have made gentle Sun want to get revenge. She said "two" were responsible for Jin's death.. Father and Widmark?

Hey Aaron, Sawyer did kill the con-man. John conned Sawyer to go with him to the Black Rock where John had him stashed. The con-man was John's father, and for some reason I think may be Sawyer's father as well, making John and Sawyer half brothers. Please, if I'm wrong, someone correct me!

There is mention of time travel with the rabbit in the Dharma video that Locke is watching as Ben fills the chamber with anything metal.

Ben said he had a few ideas to convince the O6 to go back. I'm guessing he tells Kate that Sawyer is in some sort of trouble.

He can tell Sun that Jin is alive. Plus, it seems like Sun wants to find the Island as well, but on her own terms.

Hurley will just go along for the ride, and he has said in the past they need to go back when Jack visited him.

Sayid is with Ben, so he'll go too.

Question>

What about the guy that pushes John in the wheel chair in a flashback. We've seen him on the Island with the others in earlier seasons. He also visits Hurley in a flash forward.

As for the whispering, it seems to be a tactic that the others use when they attack. It has always been associated with them since the beginning.

I like the idea that the island is a lost artifact from Atlantis and maybe before then as well, maybe the others are decendants of the lumerians, and so are some of the main cast?
There seems to be lots of the same thing showing up again, repeating patterns in the show, just like in real life. I mean, I just did a report last year on the panopticon prison design, and how the use of percieved surveilance can be used to control outcomes. This of course all plays into quantum mechanics as well, observed/observer rolls of reality, relativity, and intention generated outcomes of creating the world as it is.
However it is going to be played out in the script, I enjoy it.

why does hurley tell wault that the o6 lie to protect the people on the island, even though waults dads is dead, does wault know his dad is dead?

Regarding Jin's death or maybe not...We didn't see him on the deck when the camera pulled back to the helicopter. I'll have to watch it again.

About Daniel and the second group of people on the raft (I don't recall seeing any familiar faces - a bit Star Trek like)...Remember how the boat couldn't get within a certain distance of the island? Perhaps this was only Michael's sabotage, but I was thinking there was some navigating interference, too. Perhaps Daniel and the raft were still within a certain distance and disappeared with the island.

Aaron, Locke's dad was the guy who bilked Sawyer's parents and Sawyer has already killed him. Duh...

Get a life

Remember in a flashback we see Jin buying a bear and Sun asking for her husband... when the bear was finally delivered it was for someone else not Sun and when asked 'if leaving so soon' he said its not his baby he's not even married...

So he is alive but probably his memory got erased when the island moved or something....

Sawyer asked Kate to go find the guy who bilked his parents and had the note to give to in the first season. Oh, and kill the son of a b!tch. Duh...

Jack definitely knows that Aaron is his nephew. Claire's mother came to Christian's funeral and told him. And remember the comment Jack made to Kate about Aaron? They were fighting about Kate helping Sawyer, and Jack said something like, "You aren't even related to him!" It must have struck him as wild that he is raising the boy as a "dad" when he is really the uncle, and the one who should have custody. Why hasn't he told Kate? Or has he? That makes the insult to her even worse.

Ben teleports into the future. There is a phenomenon on the island that he uses to move the island. The effect makes him go into the future. He asks what year it was to the hotel staff when he makes it to a hotel (He left in late 2004, but it was 2005 when he arrived). The hotel has hosted him in the past, so it is understood he has made it off the island and stayed in that hotel (--possibly another station or the submarine?).

I remember thinking a long time ago that the island might be the ruins of Atlantis, but this didn't make sense since it was in the Pacific. But now that we know it can move, I'm leaning there again. (Also, I don't think it has to always be an island, since at least some remnants have appeared in mainland Africa. Hmm, wonder if they end up saying it at one time was the Garden of Eden).

Also, the Octagon National Recruiting commercial near the end of the show (and the accompanying website) suggests that the Dharma Initiative may have found the island again after 3 years, and that is why they have to go back with such urgency.

Returning to thoughts on polar bears: could they have been brought to the island by the Dharma Initiative? They had constructed bear enclosures - both Sawyer and Kate were held in them (Sawyer was told the bear had figured out how to work the mechanism to get a treat faster than he had) and Jack was held in what had been an aquarium. It seems everything was an experiment to the Dharma scientists.

Hi everybody!

Space - Time - Life/Death, all relativ? I recommend everybody to take a peek at some easy book about QUANTUM PHYSICS! This might be the clue to at least some of what we are seeing. (For example my Claire the same time be alive AND dead... For this is what happens when the RULES of the tiny are applied large scale!)

PS: Fact: Chuck Norris is the only person Benjamin Linus tells the truth.

John Donne, not John Locke, said no man is an island. John Locke believed in the concept of Tabula Rasa, "blank slate"--all are born neutral, neither good nor evil, and our experiences in life make us either good or evil.

Ben teleported to Tunisia, not Saudi Arabia. The horsemen he encountered in Episode 9 back in April were speaking a Tunisian dialect of Arabic (at least according to my friend living in Morocco who watched on the internet), and when he arrived at the hotel, the woman at the front desk asked him if it was his first time in Tunisia.

I concur that we can't know Jin is dead. Yet. His grave obviously couldn't have meant anything because there obviously wouldn't have been a body in it. As Keljean, said, you can place markers without actually burying somebody. I can't discount that he might be dead, but the producers tend to be pretty good about giving us full assurance when we know someone is gone, but also playing coy when we're meant to be unsure. Between Christian's appearance and the fact that all we saw was the boat exploding from the distance (not with any last close-ups of Michael or Jin reacting to or being hit by the explosion), I'll still be biting my nails over this one for months.

Here's my question - Sun in the future: good, bad, or misguided? Buying out her dad's company - good. Maybe. But Jack said she blamed him for Jin's death, and she did approach Widmore. She could just be good but trying to manipulate Widmore. Or she could believe that Widmore's the good guy in the Widmore-Ben rivalry. Of course, she would have been with Desmond long enough on Penny's boat to get the explanation from him about the fact that it was Widmore's boat and Widmore's goons who set the explosives.

What role will Penny play in all this going forward? She's obviously got access to a good chunk of cash, but whether that's independent of her father or not, I can't tell. Is she a dark-horse third contender in the Ben-Widmore rivalry?

Of course, these questions are EXACTLY what keep me watching. Good show, ABC. Keep it up!

Regarding Michael's "death," isn't it not possible for Michael to die since "the island won't let him?" That is what Tom told him before he was assigned to get on the boat. Maybe Michael is still alive even though the bomb went off in his face!

2.Where, and when, is the island now, considering how far Ben was hurled into the future when it moved? SHoot...how do we know that Ben went into the future?? Was there no swooosh sound at the change of scenes or because he showed up there with Jack? What did I miss?

i believe the island is there its just went forward in time. at the same time ben lands in the desert he has a wound on his arm same jacket.

Why doesn't Richard age?

I think Sun just assumes Jin is dead, but for all she -and we know- he could still be alive. I'd doubt he's on the island, as I don't see any way he could've made it back in time before the island teleported. Maybe he is just dead, who knows.

And yeah, I think Sawyer undoubtedly said something about his kid, and possibly the woman he screwed over. It seems that from earlier episodes, it was possible he loved her, but didn't want to settle down (just like Kate?) and so that's why he conned her eventually. Or maybe he just wanted the money to himself more than he wanted her ;-).

A lot of people talk about the possibility that some who thought to be dead may still be alive...how about Charlie?? he could have escaped his watery tomb somehow...and reunited with Claire on the island...how about that for a surprising event????

Doesn't anyone remember Jin buying the Panda Bear for the baby? I know he told the nurse he wasn't the father because he has only been married for a few months. I think he survived but cannot take the chance of letting Sun know. Protection I think.

jin maybe alive as seen in a flash forward of him buying a panda bear for his boss or someone at the same time when sun was having her baby, jin left right away when he delivered the panda and the nurse said to him leaving already? he said not mine not married..
also I think that michael is the father of suns baby, as we know that jin was infertile. reason for this is in season 1 or 2 michael was very friendly with sun and jin was very jelous..
this is why sun made a valinate effort to let michael know she was pregnant, and it seemed that the look on his face told that story..

I thought I would add something about the whispers that are heard during the show. During the re-cap show of the previous episode there was a mention of the whispers on the captions. It said something to the effect that when whispers are heard that danger is near. Makes sense with last night episode but I don't remember if that has always been the case. I'm pretty sure that I remember whispers in the jungle right before Ana Lucia was shot.

Somebody must remember this from previous episodes.

Ok - I probably will only post here one time - but I agree that Ben time travelled when he landed in the desert. If you will recall - he went to check into a hotel and asked the date. When the clerk told him, he also asked the year, which was 2005.

Even if Jin were alive, Sun wouldn't know about it, she just saw the explosion.

sawyer whispers to kate that he has to go find his daughter and tell her about the money he's put in the bank for her. i bet.

"We know Jin will not survive as we have previously seen Sun visit his grave in a flash forward."....UNLESS....


after the return of the O6, there were grave sites put in place for all of the "dead" from the non-survivors of Oceanic Flight 815....

Pretty sure Jin's grave is a fake. Felt so at the time. He easily could have jumped off the boat. The grave is part of the big lie.

We know Jin will not survive as we have previously seen Sun visit his grave in a flash forward.

Warlord: Yeah the post/name thing confused me as well at first....

Ben teleported...Ben teleported. Good work everyone, I totally see that now. Thats cool, I feel like we totally got to the bottom of something, one thing!!

anyone check out that vid??

OMG!!!....you guys must MUST check out this guy: http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/ugv/index?pn=player&pn=player&itemId=2749757

hilarious!! :)

mad props to this guy!!

disclaimer: you will have to sit through a 35 sec jeep commercial. boo

I think Ben moved the island he was teleported to Saudi Arabia. If you remember that clip Ben falls from the sky and lands in the dessert and has a Dharma winter jacket on.

makes total sense..did you notice ben was wearing halliwax's jacket (the chinese guy in the orientation movies)

Oh and on a side note, that also now makes sense about Ben going into the future. I think when he gets teleported to the desert, he's then in the future where Sayid has already been with Nadia for a while etc.

If we're going on the time-loop theory then I presume he's now in 2004, and he gets Sayid to work for him up until 2007 which is where the flash-forwards are now up to?

Ah yeah, the names are underneath! Sorry, that confused me!

Yep I just remembered that desert scene with the cut on his arm and the jacket, exactly the same as when he was moving the island. So he must get teleported there, I should've worked that one out!

I've been reading that Time-loop theory and I don't know what to make of it. I'm hesitant to believe it, if anything it seems a bit over-complicated for the average viewer of Lost to come to grips with when it's all finally explained. I just think that there will be a more simplistic explanation, but nevertheless an intriguing one.

ok so about the explosion....i do think there are survivors (also a hunch)....mainly i think that because the explosion happened around the same time as the moving of the island....there might be a loop-whole there. Also with the possibility of time-travel...maybe somehow that plays into it????

the name from each post is under their post. Each post of mine has my name under my post.

I think Ben moved the island he was teleported to Saudi Arabia. If you remember that clip Ben falls from the sky and lands in the dessert and has a Dharma winter jacket on.

So can I ask a question? Does anyone think there are survivors of the ship after the explosion? Maybe Jin? Michael unlikely.

havent u noticed everytime someone hears those whispers someone mysterious appears..in the finale michael hears whispers and christian appears..i wonder what the whispers say

Ben gets teleported to the desert immediately following his actions in the finale. Remember how he just woke up in the middle of the Sahara (I think it was the Sahara) and killed those two guys on horses. I'm sure because he was cut on the arm in the same place he cut it in the finale, and had to fashion a bandage for it.

Personally, I think Locke, Claire, and Jin are still alive (or will be upon returning to the island in Locke's case). I'm not basing this on anything, just a hunch...

Erm, the big post just above was by me (Warlord) not Keljean. Seems the names aren't showing correctly?

Does he know Aaron is his nephew? I believe so....at some point Jack did find out that Claire was his sister...can't remember exactly when, but I do remember that...
yes Jack did find out because Jack runs into Claires mother at Christian's (Jack's dad) funeral and she tells Jack why his dad was in sidney and tells him that he had a sister on the flight named Claire. so from there he figures out that Aaron was related to him

http://www.timelooptheory.com

It will answer many of the questions this last poster had

It was said that bad things happened to people on the island after the 6 went home, Locke may have left the island to convince them that they had to go back.

Mm I predicted earlier in Season 4 that it would be Locke in the coffin, just by the way Kate was referring to him when Jack spoke to her.

Who's to say that Richard isn't the father of Charlotte? If he hasn't aged, he could've been around for any amount of time. Or maybe she's Jacob's daughter (if Jacob is, or was, a human).

I don't understand what was said about Ben travelling into the future...where was this stated or implied in the finale? Clearly Ben and Locke are able to get off the island somehow, and Locke seems to have got off the island in order to deliver a message to the Oceanic 6 (that they have to go back). The way Ben was talking about Locke (pseudonym Bentham), implied that they didn't get off the island together.

So, Ben and Locke got off the island individually. Ben said that when he moves the island, he's not able to stay. Although, we only have his word for this, which is rarely trustworthy. So by moving the island, something took Ben off it. But how? We don't know. Maybe he was just left in the water and another boat came...but that seems a bit far-fetched. Maybe the island, or Jacob, let him choose somewhere to be 'teleported' when the island was moved. Or maybe something else happened, but I can't speculate further.

So how did Locke get off the island. Well, if you remember, in previous episodes we see that Ben had numerous passports and had been spotted off the island. So, however Ben was travelling to and from the island is most likely how Locke was able to do so. Not only this, but Tom (one of the others) managed to get off the island to speak to Michael. Were they using the submarine? Maybe. So if they were, how has Locke managed to get off the island without it? Maybe Locke and the Others managed to build another boat, or maybe the Island teleported to somewhere close to some mainland, whereby only a small raft is necessary. Again, we can only speculate.

I think the biggest mysteries are that of Jacob and Richard. The Others (including Ben) clearly know much more than they've told us so far. Once we know more about what they know of the Island, we'll be able to start formulating a picture.

Oh Christian is Jack and Claire's dad.....forgot his name.....

I did mean Daniel....."hangs with Charolette"..

Richard is an Other, yeah he is the one I thought he was.....he said welcome home to Locke in the last scene...Yeah I do believe that he does not age....because he saw Locke as a boy....when he "interviewed him for that "special" school...and he looked exactly the same, thats why I believe he does not age.

Why was Jack so bent out of shape about Aaron? Good question, have no idea

Does he know Aaron is his nephew? I believe so....at some point Jack did find out that Claire was his sister...can't remember exactly when, but I do remember that.

Why would Locke leave the island? He was the one most adamant about not leaving. I don't think he left and I don't think he died....or well if he died...that would be the only way he would have left.

"A. because he is currently "working" for Ben and knows he needs to get Hurley back to the island. Hence the lying."

OOOOHHH!! Thaaats right!! They have "similar interests" or some stuff...I remember Ben manipulating him into this..by way of killing the love of his life and making it Sayid's fight....thanks...forgot!!

Ben's childhood friend, Annie, is the one who gave him the dolls on his birthday. The birthday his father doesn't want to remember. What did Sawyer say to Kate? Probably about his baby. Why was Jack so bent out of shape about Aaron? Does he know Aaron is his nephew?
Why would Locke leave the island? He was the one most adamant about not leaving.

Yes, we did know that Sawyer asked Kate to do something...BUT WHAT????.....what could be so important...what was it?

Season 5.....when does it start...? lol

Who is Christian (the one that hangs with Charolette?) and who is Richard (the one dude that said "welcome home" to Locke?)?
Christian is Jack's Dad and Clairs Dad too. He has encounters with a bunch of the other characters too. I don't know what you mean by the Christian that hangs out with Charlotte? The guy who she's always with is Danial. Richard is an Other...I think one episode hinted that he hasn't aged...but I'm not sure. He's one of the more well known others though.

Aside from a mobile island...why else were polar bears on the island?
because the island used to be somwhere cold and the polar bears move with the island. i dont think there is any other reason

I dont remember anything about ben having a childhood friend nor do I remember the significance....anyone?
in one of the episodes we see ben's back story. he came the island when he was young. his mother died in childbirth so his dad treats him badly. he kills all the dharma people and his dad. in this episode we also see that he has a friend named anna who he meets on his first day there.

so lame that Claire never got to find out that Jack is her brother.

Questions asked:(and now answered)

1. Why is Sayid lying to Hurley?

A. because he is currently "working" for Ben and knows he needs to get Hurley back to the island. Hence the lying.

7. What did Sawyer say to Kate?

A. We don't know exactly what he said, but we do know it was basically..."If you get back (to the real world), do _____ for me." Because in the earlier episode, Kate is doing something for an unknown male behind Jacks back. Jack's upset because he knows it was for Sawyer, whom he dislikes.

My thoughts/responses:
1. Why is Sayid lying to Hurley? Maybe because of his loose grip with reality??????

2. Where, and when, is the island now, considering how far Ben was hurled into the future when it moved? SHoot...how do we know that Ben went into the future?? Was there no swooosh sound at the change of scenes or because he showed up there with Jack? What did I miss?

"why do the creators hate us??" LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

My questions:
Who is Christian (the one that hangs with Charolette?) and who is Richard (the one dude that said "welcome home" to Locke?)?

Aside from a mobile island...why else were polar bears on the island?

I dont remember anything about ben having a childhood friend nor do I remember the significance....anyone?

Jeremy Bentham....we only first heard that name in the finale, right? Should we know who that is? I mean, I get the historical/philosophical reference...but to the show....have we attached meaning yet?...a link within the show?

Thank you! :)

To question #6: Hurley sees and talks to the most dead people and as we know it so far, he has no children. Other than that....all great questions!! :)

""The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without the prisoners being able to tell if they are being observed or not, thus conveying a 'sentiment of an invisible omniscience.' In his own words, Bentham described the Panopticon as 'a new mode of obtaining power of mind over mind, in a quantity hitherto without example.' "

Discuss."

This is in fact the detention room at the Catholic Girls' High School where I spent my formative years. The detainees sat in study carrels facing the wall, and Sister at a desk in the middle of the room -- at least we thought Sister was there, but nobody dared turn round to see. The only hint we had that she was (at least often) there was that when we wished to leave the room, we had to raise our hands (without turning round) and someone would come to escort us there and back again.


Uh hello? Charlotte is a LITTLE YOUNG to be Bens playmate..dont cha think? She doesnt see in her late 40's to me!

Questions answered:

1. We have a pretty good idea of why there were polar bears playing with levers on the island. And why there was a polar bear skeleton in the desert.

2. We can make an educated guess as to how the Black Rock is so far inland (occupying space in the water where the island moved to) and that, possibly, the island has been in cold-weather climates on one of its trips (another polar bear explanation).

Questions asked:

1. Why is Sayid lying to Hurley?

2. Where, and when, is the island now, considering how far Ben was hurled into the future when it moved?

3. Did anyone survive the boat explosion, and where are the folks in the freighter's skiff?

4. If Locke goes back to the island ... will he come back to life?

5. How the heck did Dharma find the island in the first place, since they're either doing some kind of social experiment or they didn't have a clue as to what they were dealing with in the island? And how old are the members of Richard's group?

6. Will Michael become part of Jacob's ghost squad (Christian, Claire)? Why do the "ghosts" primarily speak to people (Michael, Claire, foster parents Jack and Kate) who have had children (Walt, Aaron) living on the island? Are Charlie and Eko ghosts who are on the side of Jack's father or not?

7. Obvious questions: What did Sawyer say to Kate, what "bad things" happened on the island, why do the creators hate us??

According to wikipedia, Jeremy Bentham had his body preserved and placed in a case for viewing, still in place today. However, the head is wax, not the real head. So - not the real John Locke in the coffin!

"No man is an island" is a quote from John Donne, not John Locke.

I am taking Jeremy Bentham to be more around the utilitarianism aspect. I found this quote of his and seems like it could be a good reason that when coming back from the island Locke took this name...

“ Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do. On the one hand the standard of right and wrong, on the other the chain of causes and effects, are fastened to their throne. They govern us in all we do, in all we say, in all we think...” - Jeremy Bentham

couldn't charlotte be Ben's friend Anna or Annie I think was her name?

Producers stated that the fate of Ben's childhood friend Annie would be revealed in a later episode. Charlotte is no doubt this person.

Further thoughts:

John Locke's most famous quote: "no man is an island"

Jeremy Bentham - philosopher most closely associated with utilitarism, the greatest good for the greatest number.

Cant wait for season 5!

Don't get who Jeremy Bentham is ???

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This page contains a single entry by Thomas Conner published on May 29, 2008 10:20 PM.

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