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Martin Havlat knocked out of Game 3 by hit from Niklas Kronwall

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kronwell-hit-havlat.JPGA scary moment came in the first period of tonight's Blackhawks-Red Wings game when right winger Martin Havlat was knocked out by a massive hit from Niklas Kronwall.

Kronwall was assessed a five minute major for interference and a game misconduct.

In the post-game press conference, Blackhawks coach Joel Quenneville said Havlat "looked better" after the game, and listed him as day-to-day. He didn't have much to say about the hit itself though.

"I thought it was the correct call," Quenneville said. "He hadn't touched the puck. He hadn't left his feet. It was a tough hit."

There's video of the incident below. Tell us what you think -- dirty play or a case of Havlat having his head down at the wrong time? 

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68 Comments

Well, it was called interferece. Not charging, not roughing. The refs simply made a call that contact was made by Kronwall against a player who did not have the puck in his vicinity. So, the refs didn't even think it was "dirty". They just didn't recognize that black frozen piece of rubber between Havlat's feet. For future reference, it's called a puck.

Great hit by Kronwall. Picture perfect. Hope Havlat's OK. Bad call by the refs. Horrible call actually, considering none of them called it until play had been stopped for a few minutes. They let the injury and the crowd influence them into a horrible call. I'm still waiting for a ref's hand to actually go up indicating a penalty.

It is a hard hit but it looks like a unfortunate timing. Havlat is looking down after the puck that got a strange deflection from the boards. But it was definately not with the intent to injur. If Havlat looked up a split second earlier it would be on the highlight reels. He was clearly in possession of the puck.

Hope for hockey´s and Kronwall's sake that Havlat is ok and can play the next game. I think Kronwall feels terrible about how bad hard the hit took.

Penalty? Are they not allowed to hit in hockey anymore? I'm sorry the guy got really shaken, but the puck was between the legs(which can't be interference), the hit was legal (shoulder) and no penalty was called until after the fact. This is sad for the NHL if the game misconduct is not removed

Kronwalls huge bone crunching hit on Havlat was clean, nothing dirty about it. Its part of the game, just hope Havlat is in good form for next game. The referees were sadly influenced by the crowd reaction in short a very bad call.

It seems pretty clear that Kronwall had the intent to injure with that hit. He went high, and aimed for Havlat's head. If not an interference call, it was definitely a charging call. He left his feet! The announcers even said that Kronwall does this often, and jumps on unsuspecting wingers. That's bushleague. Definitely a dirty hit if I've ever seen one.

Mike - Kronwall left his skates. That's a penalty. Period. As for the game misconduct, you don't know what may have happened in the pile-up post-hit. This also could be similar to the situation of a bloody lip after a high stick. The call may have been bumped up because Havlat was out cold.

I think the penalty is the least the Wings can pay for taking Havlat out for the game.

you folks should read the rules. nowhere does it say that having "the puck between your legs" means it can't be interference. you have to touch the puck to have possession. here is the rule straight from the rule book:

"Possession of the Puck:

The last player to touch the puck, other than the goalkeeper, shall be considered the player in possession. The player deemed in possession of the puck may be checked legally, provided the check is rendered immediately following his loss of possession."

there is no such thing regarding interference as "playing the puck" or "making a play for the puck." it all has to do with actually touching the puck.

It was charging with an intent to injure (which he did) should be a suspension

Wow, really? No hitting in hockey now? These refs need to be held responsible for bad calls. At the end of the year the NHL needs to conduct an independent review of all of these calls, and people should lose jobs. Terrible call. Unbelievable.

As a neutral hockey fan living in Oregon, I can tell you that was the cleanest, hardest hit I have ever seen in a hockey game. If that hit is illegal, than they should switch to no checking period. What should be illegal is for a referee to give a game misconduct to a player on reaction to an injury and not the hit itself. No arms raised on the play, no penalty was to be called, but in front of the hawks bench the ref's caved to pressure. I would hope after such a terribly officiated game by these refs, the nhl will not allow them to ref another game. Otherwise, it seems the nhl is influencing the outcome thru the refs to keep a series close that is completely dominated by the wings. Havlat may return, but will never be a factor again in the series. He will be playing more scared than he usually does.

What a shame that Quenville agreed with the call. NO CLASS. The Wings under Babcock play with skill and talent, rarely fight and yet won't back down. When opponents play the Wings, they think they can run around committing cheap shots until they get a wake up call like Havlat's. I hope he's ok but they teach you when you're in pee wee to keep your head UP. Kronwall is not a dirty player and the hit was textbook. If you disagree, then you probably think the NHL is going in the right direction with the new rules. I can't remember a playoff year with this many blown calls, late calls, non calls and just plain terribly inconsistent from period to period, game to game. The ref's weren't even calling a penalty initially on the play. Great hit, terrible after the fact call.

I agree with many of you. Sharon especially, 'charging' would have been the more appropriate call. As for the misconduct, "with intent to injure" is possible too, however the only one who would know that for sure/best are the refs and skaters themselves.

In my opinion, Detroit was doing a lot of 'rough housing' early on in the game. They came out hitting, and one of them wound up injuring Havlat. If you are going to play that style of game, the old saying goes, "If you are going to play, you will pay"

I also think the refs called the misconduct so the hitting wouldn't get any further out of hand. If the referees think that the game is getting to be, or going to be out of control, then they have the option to start assessing penalties accordingly. One of their functions on the ice is to maintain order and the flow of the game.

I will say though that I don't see an obvious interference, but if you want to get really technical, I think jimmy's answer is a good explanation too.

Botton line - The ref was correct with the Misconduct, however I would have assigned the Minor/Major as Charging, not interference.

Detroit Sucks! Detroit Sucks! Detroit Sucks!

Clean hit?? Watch Kromwell's left arm and you'll see it clearly follows through the hit. It was intentionally aimed at the head, and he had no intention of pulling it. A clean hit would have led with the shoulder, not the elbow.

Clearly, hockey is an exciting sport, with lots of contact. But cheap garbage like this only leads to career-ending injuries that damage the sport.

Ian - Kronwall skates left the ground after contact was made. A lot of physics involved, but the energy of two players colliding has to go somewhere, and it usually carries the checker off his feet during an open ice hit.

Wings didn't need to "pay" for taking Havlat out of the game. If you watch enough hockey, you learn that having your head down is a cardinal sin. No one will make you pay for that sin more than Kronwall.

Jimmy - I don't know where you got that definition, but it makes no sense. It basically says the last guy to touch it has possession, until he's checked, then he may be considered to have lost possession.

1) He led with his shoulder 2) The puck WAS in the viscinity, c'mon you cant hit a guy whos standing over the puck? 3) he didnt leave his feet until AFTER the hit, which is legal. I'm a proud wings fan and don't wish ill will on Havlat but if the calls do truly "even out in the end" Havlat is likely gonna be out for a while....That was a perfectly legal hit and if you want to say it was intent to injure, your saying you believe they should take off their pads and take turns taking shots on the goalies. Start watching baseball if you can't accept that hockey is a physical sport. Get of the tracks when the trains coming Hawks.

I'm a Chicago fan and Havlat's got to get his head up. If anything he leans down into Kronwall's shoulder. I think the second period showed a few make up calls as the officials realized that they had made the wrong call.

I hope this doesn't come back to bite us later when we make a big legal hit on Detroit and get 5 minutes for it. They won't waste a five minute power play.

This was an obvious clean hit. Kronwall didn't leave his feet until the follow through (which would have been impossible for a guy who's 5'11" 180 not to), he lowered his shoulder into Havlat's chest, and the only reason Havlat was injured is because it upended him and he landed on his head between the boards and the ice... it was not the hit that injured him. It couldn't have been charging or interference because Havlat was playing the puck - it just took a bad bounce off his skate and he lost site of it.

Kronwall is one of cleanest hitters I've ever seen. Never intends to injure, never goes about the shoulders, never leads with an elbow... keeps his stick on the ice and his center of gravity low - just like any hockey player learns from an early age.

I watched Kronwell's feet, and his left skate was firmly on the ice when he made the hit. He came up after they made contact, but definitely no penalty there. The "he didn't touch it, so no possession" argument is a little weak, too, we're going to let hockey players dance around the puck and be immune from contact? The funny bounce was unfortunate, but Havlat has two chances to play safe and avoid injury - either hold the puck on the boards, or pick his head up. Poor play by Havlat, and I hope he recovers and learns a lesson from it.

Kronwall left his feet. That is a charging call with intent to injure. Plus the follow through with the arm.

However Havlat was not paying attention, and needs to keep his head up.

Anyway, a squeaker for the Hawks, they need to learn how to play 60 minutes.

Plain and simple a bit hit! A good clean big hit last week my 8 y/o son took a hit like that. He didn't wine or complain. Yes there was a bounch of people who knew nothing about the sport crying and complaining about the kid who hit him. Like the Chicago fans last night. I told them to stick their child in Tee ball.

CHEAP SHOT!
Kronwell needs thrown out of the league for last nights hit!
He is CLEARLY UP OFF HIS SKATES--and you can't tell me his elbow wasn't aimed for Havlat's head. Boy is that sportmenship for the X-champions!

Saying "he didn't leave his feet until after the hit" is just blatant parsing. Hits don't happen in slow motion like they do when you're watching them on youtube. I suppose you could say that he didn't leave his feet until after the impact began, but it's not like the hit "caused" Kronwall to jump into the air toward Havlat. He left his feet because he meant to leave his feet and hit a guy harder than he needed to be hit.

Saying that if this is illegal that we should just outlaw checking is stupid. You check people when they have possession of the puck, and you use your shoulder, not your entire forearm. Havlat is stupid for making himself a target, but that doesn't give Kronwall complete license to act like a caveman.

1st, let me start by saying I hope Havlett is OK. 2nd, for those of you that think this was a dirty hit, you obviously have not played hockey, don't understand hockey, nor do you really WATCH hockey.
Jimmy, good job looking up the rule! Now watch the game! If they called the game by the word of rule then every time the puck is dumped in and two player tie each other up PRIOR to touching the puck, they have committed a penalty. If a player gets hit after the puck just passes by him along the boards, the hitting player should get a penalty. These plays happen all the time (including game 3) and were not called.
Jim, Kronwell's arm was against his body AT THE TIME OF THE HIT! Watch any good hit in hockey and you will always see a player follow through with the arm AFTER THE HIT.
Ian, Sharron, Chuck, It was NOT charging, he left his feet AFTER the hit and intended to send Havlett into next week (as all good checkers should do) but did not intend to injure him. 1st lesson in hockey, KEEP YOUR HEAD UP!
GETRUSTY, way to carry on an intelligent conversation. Good job!

These ref's should not work another game in the finals. They caved to the home crowd. It was a clean hit period. They didn't intend to make a call before the maylee that followed. They figured that, because Havlett was hurt, they had to call a penalty. 5 mins for interference????? Really?!?!?!?!? If the refs were worried about things getting out of had, then they had already lost control. Play the game.

If you want to clean up hockey, DON'T get rid of great hits!!! Get rid of the garbage that occurs after / away from the play or in front of the net. There is no reason to slash a player in the back of the legs. THere is no reason to cross check a player in his back. Make it a 5 min major. If the goalie gets a penalty, make him serve it. The team has a back-up goalie. Make him play for the 2 plus min.

Here is the moment of contact: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/roban/kronWallofpain.jpg

Note 3 things: Kronwalls skates on the ice, the puck at Havlat's feet, and Kronwalls SHOULDER (not arm/elbow) impacting Havlat's face. If Havlat doesn't have a glass jaw, it's a non-call.

I look at the game this way - the Wings didn't have Kronwall or Datsyuk, spotted the Hawks a 3-0 lead (well, the refs did) and they still needed OT to eek out a win.

Huge Hawks fan here -- that's a pretty clean hit. Kronwall glides before he hits him, feet come up AFTER the contact (so not charging), hits him with the shoulder or upper arm (so not elbowing). Two possibilities...the initial contact IS to the head -- it's unintentional, clearly, but the NHL is trying to limit head shots. Second, even though the puck is in Havlat's skates, he never touches it, so it CAN be construed as interference.

In any case, not intentional, not dirty, not suspendable, perhaps punishable by major penalty because of the result of contact to the head.

Dirty hit all the way with the elbow, clearly designed to injure. The same way Stuart tried to injure Keith early in the game. The Wings are really cowards, never fight, but try to take guys out with dirty hits like Cleary did to Kane early in the year. Would love to see the Hawks take out one of their skill guys (how about Lidstrom?) before this series it over. Even though they managed to luck out pass the Ducks it was fun watching them get their butts kicked when they actually tried to fight. Would love to see anyone win it but this bunch. Wonder what these Detroit fans would be saying if it was one their stars, hope that happens soon.

Few things, first, I felt that that was a clean hit, yes it was a very hard hit but that is what happens when you get your head down while trying to play the puck. Second, all the talk about how Havlet didn't play the puck. If you actually watch the play, it is clear that if the puck had not taken a weird bounce then Havlet would have definitely played it, now how is it it possible for Kronwall not to hit him, he was coming in at that speed anticipating the play and in a slit second the condition changes and you have 200 pounds going at full speed on Ice, even it he realized it, there was no way to stop. Third , if the Hakws that retaliated after the hit really cared why did they come piling in around the head of their unconscious teammate while he laid there on the ice, he was lucky that he didn't get further injuries from that. And finally, 'getrusty' this is for you and only you, grow up. If any one wants to see how not to act on this tread, look at his post. besides, just let the records speek for themselves. Most consecutive playoff appearances in ANY professional sports, the past 15 years of the cup championships, and the series record. Ok, so I am a Wings fan but I will say this. Chicago is a great up and coming team that has improved in the last couple years than anyone could have hoped or dreamed posible. In the coming years as they grow more, the will be one of the best teams in the league if not the best team. I hate to say it, but with their young tallent and energy, they probly will end up passing everyone in the West as the team to beat. But it is not their year, it will be soon, but they still have more growing to do before they raise the cup. My hat goes off to the Hawks and wish Havlet a fast recovery.

I am the first to yell for hits at a hockey game - it's simply a part of the sport. While the officials may not have made the right calls, you have to question that hit. Would agree it wasn't interference, but Kronwall was aiming high. He was gunning for Havlat's head and sadly made direct contact. The guy looked like he didn't even know his own name. The Wings are a strong team and this series is definitely a battle to the death. But the Wings are dirty - always have been, likely always will be. If that's how they need to play in order to win, I'll gladly lose and be able to hold my head high. Kronwall's a dirt bag and deserves a suspension.

i love hockey. unbiased from nevada. it was a good hit. scott stevens did this every game of his career. as did ted lindsay. former wing and blackhawk.

okie that was a clean great hit (havlat was looking for the puck) but was interference since he had no contol of the puck. Bad call by the refs.

Clean hit. A Red Wing blogger has a screen shot of the moment of impact. The puck is right there on Marty's skate, Kronwall's skates are on the ice, Kronwall's arm is down and the contact is shoulder to jaw.

Blame the NHL and equipment manufacturers. Hard shell shoulder and elbow pads are extremely dangerous. Even Don Cherry has been protesting against them for years.

Here is the pic of the hit on Marty. http://lh4.ggpht.com/_KQkmYfG5atE/Shdwf-GxjjI/AAAAAAAAAHo/rbS1x-YEiNI/s800/kronwall_havlat.jpg

I'm a Blackhawk fan and I first of all want to give a "shout out" to Tom the Red Wing fan for having as impartial a perspective as one could expect being a fan. Thanks Tom.

Now, about the hit. I actually thought it was a clean hit when it happened! Violent yes, but clean as I first saw it! Now, I think it was the right call even if one could argue that it might be a bit "ticky tack."

Please manually replay the actual hit at about the 1:50 mark on "you tube" several times. IF you are being impartial, you should note that Kronwall did, in fact, leave his feet just prior to making contact with Havlat. It wasn't the worst I've ever seen, but it follows the charging rule. Secondly, not only did Havlat never--a key point--touch the puck, but he didn't even have clear "possession" as the puck took a rather unexpected trip and that's why he felt that he needed to look down to find the puck. The latter could be described as interference according to the rule.

Even if you disagree with one of those occurrences, it only takes one for a penalty to be called. The other consideration is intent. Kronwall does indeed have the reputation of toeing the line of the rules and going after the oppositions' top players. I can't be certain of his intent here, but sometimes our reputations precede us and we have the "pay the fiddler" so to speak. That's perhaps where the "game misconduct" came into play from an NHL perspective.

That brings me to make another couple of statements, Detroit is great. They really are. However, they can be really annoying in how often they will make those kinds of hits, station themselves in front of the net like oak trees, etc. and then when you try to do something about it, they just skate away. It might be legal, but if you're not a Red Wing fan, it looks the bully who keeps pushing people around in school and as soon as someone wants to take on the bully, he runs off as the principal arrives. I personally don't respect it. Now, after the Kronwall hit, which I think went over the line given his reputation, I'm really starting to hate the Detroit Red Wings. I would seriously love nothing better than for ANY team--hopefully the Hawks--to give them a lesson they'll never forget.

"was interference since he had no contol of the puck. "

um, in the NHL actually playing the puck is not the standard. the puck is there, so it's not interference. if actually playing it were the standard, every player would just let the puck go by when there was a check coming - thereby drawing an interference penalty.

Clean hit, period. If Havlat jumps up and rejoins the play there would not even have been a two minute penalty called. The penalty was because he knocked him into next week, and that is why the refs need to be suspended. I hope Havlat is OK, but Kronwall should not be punished any further, he already been unjustly penalized.

Those pictures of the "moment of impact" don't make it a clean hit. Check it again - he's practically on his toes. There's no rule that says you need to have left your feet prior to the impact, so I don't know where that argument is coming from. If you jumped before you hit the guy you'd just land on top of him.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/roban/kronWallofpain.jpg

If the refs didn't throw Kronwall out then the rest of the game would have been chaos, something they are supposed to avoid and have the discretion to eject accordingly. I think the call was questionable, because it appeared to be a clean hit. Nevertheless these calls can go either way, this time it was in the Hawks favor. Marty was crushed and that could have been a career ending hit something the NHL doesn't want to portray as part of the game. The ref's used their discretion and everybody has to live with it. If you noticed the Hawks were called on numerous small penalties after that episode, allowing the wings the opportunity to catch up and they did. I find it funny that everyone is arguing a call that can't be changed and nobody is speculating or reporting on Marty's health. I am still worried he might be out for the rest of the playoffs with a concussion. Havlat has been a key part of the Hawks success this year evidenced by his clutch goals against Calgary and Vancouver, however the Hawks have a deep enough bench to overcome his absence and will if they are champions. They need to keep up the fight and raise it a notch if they want to take home the Cup. If they can rebound in this series- there is no stopping them. I am just thrilled at the season they've had so far. This coming from a guy who has sat in a very empty stadium watching a below average team over the past decade wishing for a season like this to happen.

Havlat used his left skate to settle the puck which is possession. He looked down to find it and that's when Kronwall hit him. Clean hit and a bad call by the refs....

Boy, I know it's been a rough 15 years for hockey in Chicago, but I didn't think the fans would have forgotten how the game is played during that time. Saying Marty didn't have possesion of the puck so it was interference is rediculous since it was right at his feet. If you called all contact during a game based on that standard everybody would be in the box and they'd have to cancel the game, players hit or "check" (for my brothers who may have forgotten what it's called) each other all the time when there hasn't been contact made with the puck because they're fighting for it. I certainly hope our players know that, otherwise we really are in trouble. This is HOCKEY folks, not figure skating. GO HAWKS!

Thanks to Jimmy for posting the 'rules' but remember they only apply to the literate. It was interference - a double minor maybe but not a major & he shouldn't have been tossed.

And while we're talking about bogus officiating, look at the first goal that put Detroit back in the game - was that a penalty? One quick replay from the same angle and no comment from the commentators . . . hmmmmm.

Finally to all the Hawks fans - if Detroit wins, we can still go home and live in Chicago unlike the Wings players and fans who live in the land of wide lawns and narrow minds. How can a city with nobody living in it have 4 professional teams - well 3 if you don't count the Lions?

Detroit plays dirty, pushing and shoving the Hawks in the BACK so many times in Games 1 and 2 in Detroit with NO CALLS! That being said, this hit was on purpose and intentional, you can see the dirty RedWing aiming for the BlackHawk players head and showing no remorse when he pummelled him into a concussion...this is what hockey is NOT about, we watch to see skating, passing, goals scored, NOT to see some goon throw his elbow at another unsuspecting guy so hard it knocks him out! Thats the crud you'd see at one of these bare knuckle anything goes fighting matches that we refuse to watch. Sport? Class? Detroit has none, and it shows not only in their play but from the comments of their goon fans....Too bad none of you will admit your goons play dirty. Glad to see a game misconduct, now awaiting a suspension, a man's life and health are just as important in hockey as in any other sport and condoning such intentional violence only reduces the game to thuggery, not hockey.

Hit, Check what do you care? I have seen games where the ref's don't take control like last night and the players settle the score with numerous fights (see last reg. season vancouver v. hawks). That is entertaining as well, and how the game is played but last night they made the call to settle things down and that happens too. It is not like there has never been an ambiguous call in a game before, people have been ejected for less. I just want to know how Havlat is? And I haven't heard anything, not like the team is going to talk about it... reporters do some investigating and follow up!

This pic explains how the hit meets all rules. Who here said he hit with an elbow? Who here said he left his feet?

Those that say Havlat didn't have posession and point to the rule book about "the last person to touch the puck has possession..." know nothing about hockey. If that were how the games were called by officials, then why is it a penalty when you hit a guy after he passes the puck, but before someone receives the pass?

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/images/uploads/kron.jpg

sorry to burst your bubble but koner never left his feet BEFORE the hit. it was a legal clean hit. yes it was a massive hit but that is hockey. the hit BUT FUN made on kronwall after the hit was more egregious than kronwalls hit. forearm to the head and drive's the head into the glass. some of you new to hockey hawks fans need to get a grasp of the game and it's rules.

sorry to burst your bubble but koner never left his feet BEFORE the hit. it was a legal clean hit. yes it was a massive hit but that is hockey. the hit BUT FUN made on kronwall after the hit was more egregious than kronwalls hit. forearm to the head and drive's the head into the glass. some of you new to hockey hawks fans need to get a grasp of the game and it's rules.

sorry to burst your bubble but koner never left his feet BEFORE the hit. it was a legal clean hit. yes it was a massive hit but that is hockey. the hit BUT FUN made on kronwall after the hit was more egregious than kronwalls hit. forearm to the head and drive's the head into the glass. some of you new to hockey hawks fans need to get a grasp of the game and it's rules.

sorry to burst your bubble but koner never left his feet BEFORE the hit. it was a legal clean hit. yes it was a massive hit but that is hockey. the hit BUT FUN made on kronwall after the hit was more egregious than kronwalls hit. forearm to the head and drive's the head into the glass. some of you new to hockey hawks fans need to get a grasp of the game and it's rules.

I've been watching hockey for 50 years, greatest sport in the world. Now, I'm old school, grew up watching men like Mikita and Howe, so perhaps that colors my perception, but that looked like a good clean hit and a terrible make-up call to me. The still shot someone posted of the moment of impact backs that up.

Now everybody just needs to pick up their stuff and move on, as I'm sure both clubs, having registered their initial reactions, have done. I originally figured this series to be Wings in six games, and that's still looking good. Those who were calling for a Detroit sweep grossly underestimated the Black Hawks, who I see on balance as a far more talented club than the Ducks.

Farouku,

Respectfully, did you truly watch what happened as the hit was materializing, even to the point of slow motion? It would show that he left his feet just prior to hitting Martin Havlat's body. I stated that it might be a bit "ticky tack," but it is what it is. He left his feet prior to contact. By the way, occasionally, a poster accidentally hits the submit button twice thereby causing two identical posts. You have four, my friend. This doesn't bode well for your partiality. In other words, I suspect that you may be just another "meatball" fan incapable of being impartial.

"IF you are being impartial, you should note that Kronwall did, in fact, leave his feet just prior to making contact with Havlat."

so how do you explain the image posted right before your comment, that shows the exact moment of contact, and that Kronwall's feet were both on the ice?

"He left his feet prior to contact."

no, he didn't. but even if he did it's not INTERFERENCE.


"this hit was on purpose and intentional, you can see the dirty RedWing aiming for the BlackHawk players head"

what check is NOT intentional? and the image clearly shows he was NOT aiming for the player's head. his arm was at his side and he led with his shoulder. it was a clean shoulder check. it's not Kronwall's fault that the opposing player put his head down a split second before the check.

if this is the standard by which you want the game called, as was said before nearly EVERY check would be a penalty of some sort. ridiculous.

gig............your correct on the multiple post I incorrectly posted multiple times. meatball .......no don't think so. Am I impartial no... been a wings fan for over 60 years. and no he DID NOT LEAVE HIS FEET BEFORE THE HIT.And yes I tivo'd the game and have watched the LEGAL hit on slo-mo over and over. It was a clean legal hit. get over it. And I might add I have probably watched more playoff hockey than you have seen hockey, period. And yes there are two seasons in hockey.

I am a hockey fan, but largely indifferent to the Wings and Hawks, as neither is my favorite team. That said, the hit by Kronwall, while he may deny it to his grave, was absolutely delivered with an intent to knock Havlat out of the game. Intent to injure? Who knows? But a player like Kronwall lives for moments like that. He is not alone - there are many players in the league who relish the moment they can blindside another player into oblivion.

The hardest check ever delivered is arguably the Larry Robinson check against Gary Dornhoefer in the 1976 finals: http://www.nhldigest.com/the-best-body-check-ever/. What's interesting is that Robinson doesn't leave his feet until the check is delivered (not before), and Dornhoefer isn't injured on the play. No head shot, unlike what Kronwall (and so many like him) chose to do in this time period in NHL history.

Until the NHL outlaws shots to the head - and it doesn't matter if the head shot comes from what many of the readers on the page consider to be ostensibly a clean, shoulder-delivered hit - checks like Kronwall's will continue to be dished out. Unfortunately, the NHL will most likely do nothing until a player is killed or left permanently brain damaged by such a hit like the one Kronwall delivered to Havlat.

I have read Kronwall's comments, that he hopes Havlat is ok and can play today. Seriously, I mean, wtf? Who is he kidding? Anyone with a functioning brain wouldn't believe that for one second. Why would any player on a team hope that one of their better opponent players would be back for ANY games in a series like this one? Good frakkin' grief - what a load of hooey. It has also become so tiresome to hear the offending player's teammates come to his defense.

No one ever accused players like Larry Robinson or Scott Stevens of delivering cheap head-shot or intent-to-injure bodychecks. So why do we keep seeing them on a regular basis? Because the NHL continues to tolerate them, and as such, quietly endorse them.

I will continue to love the game, but will continue to lament plays like this one. Hard, bone-crunching body checks can be delivered without injuring another player - I love those as much as the next hockey fan, and we have decades of proof that such checks work. Kronwall, and those of his ilk, need to be reeled in before they do permanent and catastrophic damage to another player. Unfortunately that will not happen in the foreseeable future.

The referee made the wrong call for calling this interference. Interference has nothing to do with the puck being near the player and Havlat was about to put the puck on his stick. If anything, this was a charging penalty. Kronwall clearly has intent in this hit and took two strides. The fact is this, he was off his feet, extended his arm and knocked the guy out while the Wings are on the road. Im just sayin... but not interference, clearly a charge.

The bottom line....IT WAS A DIRTY HIT from a COWARD!

For a number of reasons...(1) His aiming was deliberately HIGH to the head. (2) He came up with the elbow to the head. (3) He left his feet. (4) THIS COWARD GETS HIS CHEAP SHOTS IN AT EVERY OCCASION AND HIDES BEHIND HIS TEAMATES AND REFS AFTER DOING SO...HE'LL GET HIS REALLY SOON!!!

It's a good thing the Blackhawks didn't get suckered into dumb penalties for BEATING THE LIVING CR@P OUT OF HIM!!! There will be a time & place for everything and it'll be in the back of our minds.

*Let's GO BLACKHAWKS...Let's GO!!!! *


....

Here it is folks STRAIGHT FROM THE NHL RULE BOOKS!

Rule 56 Interference
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26348

The referees are appearantly deeming that Havlat did NOT have 'posession' of the puck at the time of the infraction.

He had not touched the puck yet but obviously was attempting to get it, thusly the technicality.

ALSO Taken directly from Rule 56:

A player may “block” the path of an opponent provided he is in FRONT of his opponent and moving in the SAME direction. Moving laterally and without establishing body position, then making contact with the non-puck carrier is NOT permitted and will be penalized as interference.

The hit was clearly made with both players skating in OPPOSITE directions, NOT the same directions.


In regards to the possibility of Charging the following is straight from the NHL rule book:

RULE 43 Charging
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26331


"A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player or goalkeeper who skates or jumps into, or charges an opponent in any manner."

This rule does NOT require that the offender need to be off his skates and in the air.

In both cases Rules 43 & 56 Referees may impose Majors and Minors infractions along with a Game Misconduct, depending on the serverity of the infraction.

In my opinion the Referees made the correct call and frankly either Interference OR Charging would have been legitamate penalties HOWEVER I don't know, and do doubt that one can be penalized for two different infractions at the same time.

Hey Dimitri you've obviously never watched hockey. That hit was legal and there was no intent to cause harm to Havlat. Havlat had his head down and "EVERY" player knows that is a no! no! when your going for the puck. Your obviously an "instafan just ad beer".

Hey Dimitri you've obviously never played or watched hockey before. That hit was legal and there was no intent to cause harm to Havlat. Havlat had his head down and "EVERY" player knows that is a no! no! when your going for the puck. Your obviously an "instafan just ad beer".

Farouku,

I'll "get over it" once Marty Havlat, one of our best players, is playing--and 100%--on Sunday. I'll "get over it" once Detroit stops going after our star players with a probable intent to injure (I also recall Dan Cleary being responsible for an over-the-top hit on Patrick Kane that resulted in a high ankle sprain and followed him around for the last half of the regular season just prior to the "Classic" in which he forced himself to play). I'll "get over it" once I realize that there aren't "make up" calls for calls that should have been made. I'll "get over it" once your team stops playing "sissy hockey" and running away from any kind of retaliation from its opponents. I'll "get over it" once you stop whining over what I've already admitted was ticky tack when ticky tack calls have been made against the Hawks ad nauseam (specifically, see Game 2 and Detroit's first goal, one that eventually gave your team the game).

Don't even try to use the number of games you've seen as cannon fodder for your exquisite powers of observation. There are people virtually everywhere who have "seen" events time after time and know less than those who have seen even far less. That's a fool's argument. When I merely suspected that you might be a "meatball fan" I had a pretty good material to work with i.e. posting four times with "Captcha" no less. You have no such material. You don't know my age. You don't know my I.Q. You don't know my reputation. You don't know that I've written as a guest for a hockey magazine because they saw my analytical abilities with the capability to be impartial and observant.

Oh, by the way, what exactly were you alluding to when you referenced the hockey season as "two seasons"? Methinks you might have been trying to say that the regular season is for the star players to shine whereas the playoffs are for the "goons" to shine. I would actually begrudgingly agree with you on that to some extent--if that's what you meant. However, I will go to my grave knowing that the NHL is making a big mistake with that thinking. True ability should be allowed to come out throughout the FULL season of hockey.

Dirty hit? I don't think so. If Chicago can't take hits than they shouldn't be playing hockey. It's funny how it is okay for them to hit people, but when it happens to someone on their team all of the sudden it is a dirty hit. It was a bad call by the refs. The Red Wings are a class act and they will continue to be that. In regards to ve-twin's comment about Detroit playing dirty, etc. have you actually watched the games or are you living in another reality. Your Hawks are far from an "angelic" team. They love to hit, trip, etc. They can't handle the fact that they are continually outplayed by Detroit. Last game was a prime example. Even though they got quite a few penalties, had a teammate thrown out of the game and were down 3-1 near the beginning of the second period Detroit came back and tied up the game. Chicago would have lost if not for their luck when Lidstrom's shot rang off the goal post instead of going in. Go Red Wings!!

Dirty hit? I don't think so. If Chicago can't take hits than they shouldn't be playing hockey. It's funny how it is okay for them to hit people, but when it happens to someone on their team all of the sudden it is a dirty hit. It was a bad call by the refs. The Red Wings are a class act and they will continue to be that. In regards to ve-twin's comment about Detroit playing dirty, etc. have you actually watched the games or are you living in another reality. Your Hawks are far from an "angelic" team. They love to hit, trip, etc. They can't handle the fact that they are continually outplayed by Detroit. Last game was a prime example. Even though they got quite a few penalties, had a teammate thrown out of the game and were down 3-1 near the beginning of the second period Detroit came back and tied up the game. Chicago would have lost if not for their luck when Lidstrom's shot rang off the goal post instead of going in. Go Red Wings!!

Kronwall left his feet as he was making the hit. That's a penalty and a dirty hit, plain and simple. You can rationalize it all you want, but Kronwall deserved the penalty and deserved to get kicked out.

I had to go and watch the "You Tube" video again after that still frame someone produced was shown having Kronwall with his skates still on the ice as he contacted Havlat. I admit that this was evidence that went against what I'd said, therefore I needed to check it out yet again.

In doing so, I couldn't really do a bona fide slow mo (never could) so I was basically left with looking at a real time replay again and again and again OR still frames. The problem was is that I couldn't get a still frame at precisely the time I needed it which would have been probably midway between 1:52 and 1:53. In other words the still frame that gave us the evidence in which his skates were still on the ice as he contacted Havlat were on a "phantom frame" that I couldn't access no matter how much I tried. I was left with having to see it real time over and over and that produced my certainty that he left his feet prior to contact.

In any case, the evidence against what I said is overwhelming. For that I apologize. Nevertheless, I still maintain that he launched himself like a rocket from the position regardless with arm firmly aimed at his chin. You can plainly see Kronwall's arm continue on well after the hit due to the intended force he wanted to give to Havlat's chin (therefore, head). There's still no question that he left his skates and it was his own force causing it. It wasn't due to having to fall onto Havlat as he was falling.

I think we need to ignore what the actual penalty was here and look at intent. Kronwall does have that reputation and I believe he clearly wanted to send Havlat into another parallel universe. He deserves his just payment in whatever manner the Blackhawks deem necessary. It's not unlike a baseball team going after the opposition's hitters after having been thrown at, especially when you know that it was intentional.

By the way, I used to think the Marty Havlat was a bit soft myself. Then, I watched him play this entire season without injury. He didn't play soft. You might argue that he plays soft if something's nagging him physically like his shoulder in past seasons, but I wouldn't patently describe him as soft. If I felt he was as soft as many non-Hawk fans want to describe him, I would not want the Hawks to re-sign him. I desperately hope they do! He's also go "ice in his veins" when the game matters most.

O.K. Detroit fans. Not only is your team great (I had already mentioned that), but I'm finally certain that the Hawks are not ready yet. The game they played today was disgustingly undisciplined, unfocused, and silly goony. I really hope that win or lose in Game 5, they will at least play an honorable brand of hockey.

I also admit that I've been too obsessed with the Kronwall hit. The fact that the national media has largely supported the hit is enough for me.


Martin Havlat chose a bad time to admire his skates with one of the best open ice hitters in the game circling around. Quenneville is upset because he looks down the bench at his 7 million dollar bust Campbell and wonders why he can't do that. Campbell himself sounds jealous. The Hawks should know a dirty hit when they see one, they have dished out enough elbows to the back of the head this series and gotten away with it. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Bubbz from CHI-TOWN could not be more wrong if he tried.

Bubbz wrote: "The bottom line....IT WAS A DIRTY HIT from a COWARD! For a number of reasons...(1) His aiming was deliberately HIGH to the head."

See the picture. Havlat had his head down. It is not the obligation of Kronwall to crouch down to make sure his shoulder is below Havlat's head.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/images/uploads/kron.jpg

Bubbz wrote: "(2) He came up with the elbow to the head."

No, he hit with his shoulder. See the picture.

Bubbz wrote: "(3) He left his feet."

No he didn't. Both feet are on ths ice at moment of impact. Again, see the picture.

Bubbz wrote: "(4) THIS COWARD GETS HIS CHEAP SHOTS IN AT EVERY OCCASION AND HIDES BEHIND HIS TEAMATES AND REFS AFTER DOING SO...HE'LL GET HIS REALLY SOON!!!"

That's a matter of opinion, and not a penalty relative to the incident. If that's why he got tossed, that is sad. And he does not hide. He, like all Red Wings, simply/smartly chooses not to engage in shenanigans outside the whistle. That's why the Wings have Stanley Cup Championships after 1961. Lesson to be learned for the Hawks. Did you watch Game 4? Three 10 minute misconducts? Great job.

Bubbz wrote: "It's a good thing the Blackhawks didn't get suckered into dumb penalties for BEATING THE LIVING CR@P OUT OF HIM!!! There will be a time & place for everything and it'll be in the back of our minds."

Great philosophy they actually did carry into Game 4. How'd that work out for you guys? Goons.

Bubbz wrote: "*Let's GO BLACKHAWKS...Let's GO!!!! *"

Yeah. Go golfing. They have a tee time Thursday morning right ater retrning equipment.

Havlat got rung up again by Brad Stuart in Game 4. I don't believe he returned to the game after that.

Where's the outrage from that?

Dude, keep your head up.

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