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Mancow gets waterboarded

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Chicago radio icon Erich "Mancow" Muller became the next in a line of journalists and media personalities to get waterboarded to show us that it is, indeed, torture. Here's the video from NBC5:

 

View more news videos at: http://www.nbcchicago.com/video.

Water-boarding involves donning a soaked towel and shackels, being placed on a table with legs elevated and having someone pour a pitcher of water over the towel, which covers the face. The process is said to simulate the feeling of drowning. Muller lasted a few seconds before throwing the toy cow he was holding as an emergency tap-out indicator.

"It is way worse tahn I thought it would be," said Muller.

What's more, MSNBC's Keith Olberman said on "Countdown" last night that he will personally donate $10,000 to the charity Veterans of Valor:



"With today's development, the point is moot," Olbermann said. "Mancow Muller had the guts to put his mouth where his mouth was, and the guts to admit he was dead wrong -- as you saw, he not only said it is torture, but that he had nearly drowned as a boy, and it is drowning, and that he would have admitted to anything to make it stop."

Last month, Playboy.com journalist Mike guy underwent waterboarding techniques by a trained member of the U.S. military, betting he could last 15 seconds:



Polarizing journalist Christopher Hitchens wrote an article for Vanity Fair's August 2008 issue titled "Believe Me, It's Torture" in which he underwent waterboarding:



In 2007, Current TV journalist Kaj Larsen got waterboarded "as a public service, so that this controversial technique could be judged in the court of public opinion," he said.

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57 Comments

Next can Mancow show us if firing squads actually kill you?

What kind of real torture is it if reporters, TV personalities and now radio hosts are all giving it a try...

Is Mancow German for jack ass?

Wow you could tell the military guy doing it to the playboy reporter really gets off on it - perv

Hey Rufus,

Since you obviously do not think it is tortue, show everyone. Have it done to you. You can schedule it to be done at the same time as Hannity.

Wow, poor Rufus. Given the opportunity to believe his eyes, ears and brain, he chooses instead to keep the faith with his wingnut brainwashing. Sincerely, I feel sorry for that guy. I can't imagine being that far gone. Will he ever get his mind back?

9 out of 10 terrorists prefer waterboarding to listening to Mancow's radio show.

Manqueer, Manqueer, Manqueer...you first try to be Howard Stern now you are trying to be a 3rd rate Sean Hannity. What fraud, phony and fake and I agree "Madcow" try the firing squad!


Too little too late.

what an idiot, of course it hurts, its torture fool!
now please epalain how you are still making a living in this town?
moron

what an idiot, of course it hurts, its torture fool!
now please explain how you are still making a living in this town?
moron

Man, the sheer stupidity of some of these comments is baffling. No wonder the US is in the sorry state that it is. I wouldn't even want to try water boarding and I applaud the courageous reporters that do, just to convey that terror to the public. We are no better than any other country we profess to liberate from this. I'm ashamed of this country and for those who think this is acceptable torture.

Man, the sheer stupidity of some of these comments is baffling. No wonder the US is in the sorry state that it is. I wouldn't even want to try water boarding and I applaud the courageous reporters that do, just to convey that terror to the public. We are no better than any other country we profess to liberate from this. I'm ashamed of this country and for those who think this is acceptable torture.

What a wimp! He calls himself a Conservative?

Michelle Malkin or Ann Coulter would have taken it that water and spit it back as full ice cubes, knocking that Marine on his butt and showing the world that Dick Cheney and Conservative values are always right.

Another RINO, Girlcow.

waterboarding isn't supposed to be pleasant, nor easy to withstand. But thanks to Obama, we'll probably be wiring large sums of money to offshore bank accounts in exchange for terrorist information. After all, we wouldn't want to offend the terrorists and have them resent us or anything. What a country we've become.

so all this time "Enhanced Interrogation" was just a euphemism for torture????
next thing i know, someone's going to be telling me that "Carbon Credit" is a euphemism for "excise tax."

i don't know what to believe anymore

Mancow keep up the good work. You are doing great and don't let these dumbass libs on here stop you, their verbal poison and "God**mn America" mentality is their fallback tactic when logic is presented. If you say it was torture then it was torture for you and I respect that. However if the terrorists that were waterboarded wanted it to stop, all they had to do was talk. True "torture" to me is when it keeps going with no end in sight no matter what you do or say. But waterboarding performed by the US Military is like sticking your finger in a live light socket on your own will and then calling it torture because you don't have the sense to pull it out. It all stops once you talk. Therefore to me it's not torture but rather a really really convincing reason to start spilling your guts. And for those of you who say I shouldn't be saying this unless I am first waterboarded, this is a ridiculous premise. Am I to first spend time in prison before I can comment on it's perceived level of discomfort? Or should I first press my hand onto a hot stovetop before I can make an educated decision as to my tolerance for the forthcoming pain? Both answers No! One can and logically should have enough sense to weigh costs and benefits prior to endorsing or participating in certain actions.

I used to tune in to Mancow, but when he repeatedly reached the bottom of the dumpster to invite Drew Peterson on the show for what can only be for ratings gimmicks, I stopped listening.

Who is mancow and please notify me if this is not a publicity stunt.

Allah akbar.

Hitchens only drops the weights because the water put out his cigarette.

I'd waterboard the Playboy guy just for punishment on general principles.

"One can and logically should have enough sense to weigh costs and benefits prior to endorsing or participating in certain actions."

When you claim that something is not problematic you should be man enough to step up and show it. Even though Hitchens and Mancow were wrong in their assessment, they were man enough to walk their talk.

But guys like you are nothing but gutless yap yap yap.

wls fan said:


If you say it was torture then it was torture for you and I respect that. However if the terrorists that were waterboarded wanted it to stop, all they had to do was talk.

That is not true. Abu Zubaida was talking and had given all the useful information he ever gave to interrogators BEFORE they waterboarded him. Still, they thought he might be holding out. They waterboarded him 83 times in one month. Mancow lasted 8 seconds, but they waterboarded Abu Zubaida for minutes at a time. Even the legal memoranda from the Bush administration re-approving the technique says they never got any more useful information out of him.

The problem with "all you have to do is talk" is that if the interrogators don't believe you that you've told them everything, you have no choice but to make things up. That's why waterboarding is best suited, not for interrogation, but for its original purpose (we got it from the North Koreans) : to extract false confessions out of prisoners.

Wis Fan - Could you imagine if every US POW had spoken immediately to avoid being 'pressured' or tortured into saying it? Americans not saying anything when they were POW's may have saved countless lives. Now I understand they're terrorists, but the same rules apply. They would rather not squeal and damage their mission (as evil and mis-placed as it might be). So are you saying that US POWs who chose to be tortured rather than squeal deserved it?

Hey wls fan, if I may...

The essential problem with torture with regards to obtaining actionable information is that it can and often will elicit false information. Torture makes you want to "make it stop", and essentially turns one into a blubbering baby, with about as much sense and honesty.

Under the right circumstances, anyone will say anything (truthful or not) to get out of really bad trouble. Torture is the very definition of "bad trouble". Perhaps you think doing the same thing over and over again is sane, too? We now know that several people were subjected to the exact same method not once, not twice, not ten time, but upwards of fifty times. That is the very definition of insanity. When we are talking torture, to continue with the same method over and over again suggests a certain degree of sadism.

Question: would it have made a difference if the method being discussed was bastonading, a technique very popular in Asian and some Middle Eastern countries? (in case you don't know, "bastonading" in the sense intended here is the beating of someone on the feet.) Is the problem with the whole discourse that there are no obvious physical marks?

I wish we could ask Daniel Pearl if it was torture. Those poor terrorists.

WLS fan says that "it all stops once you talk". Are you really that naive? Do you want accurate information or to hear what you want to hear? If you were being waterboarded, you'd say whatever someone told you to say to stop. Say, for example, someone said, "I will keep pouring water on you until you tell me more about the connection between Bin Laden and Hussein. It will all stop when you tell me about the connection." Having no information, you'd quickly make it up in order for it to stop. Think about it. Do you see how easily we could get bad information, or do you believe everything you hear?

Dear wis fan,
You miss the point. Waterboarding was used to get subjects to talk about things they did not know. It is pretty tough to stop the torture when you don't know the answers the people want to hear. Of course, you can do what most of the detainees did. You could start making shit up.

I can't speak for waterboarding, but I know listening to Mancow for 5 minutes is torture.

Yes; waterboarding is a form of torture. However, it is far less painful or final as say Beheading! The Terrorists are not soldiers in uniform representing a nation. The Terrorists should not be protected by the Geneva Convention or treated as common criminals.
If we leave moral decisions to lawyers; we will pay a terrible price as a nation.And ManCow is a baffoon.

Here's what's odd. How many of you spouting your righteousness have ever been waterboarded? I have. Have you been tortured physically or psychologically? One of the reasons that terrorism exists is the conditions by which a populous feels so desperate or compelled to a cause that they would give their lives or the lives of others for it. You need to do a little reading before mouthing off.

And while I certainly wouldn't downplay the horror associated with Daniel Pearl's murder, surely you must know that throughout the world our country is perceived as a progenitor of those very sorts of acts. Grow up, (so called) conservatives. Our nation needs us to be smarter than that.

The problem "wisfan" is that when they do talk, it's unreliable information. Plus, just the whole premise of torturing in this country is insane - so there shouldn't be a debate at all. It will end and that's that. I'm ready to move on from this nonsense.

Perhaps we should cut the terrorists' heads off before they are waterboarded.

At least Mancow put his big mouth where the water was. While that little whimp Hannity joins the 2 fat watery girlymen, Cheney and Limbaugh, in extoiling the virtues of a gang of thugs beating up and torturing 1 helpless bound and shackled guy, guilty or not. That's actually the definition of cowardice and the only way those 3 draft dodging cowards would face down anyone.

J Russell
Western Springs

wls fan, suppose you were being waterboarded, and the person doing it wanted you to say that America is an evil country. They'll give you steel weights to hold, and when you're ready to denounce America, all you have to do is drop the weights. Then the water starts. In your own words, all you have to do to make it stop is to talk.

You may be thinking, "I'll drop the weights, but then when they tell me to denounce America, I just won't." Okay, now you will be waterboarded again, but not given weights to drop. The person doing the waterboarding will decide when to stop. And the process will repeat until you say what he wants to hear.

For a very limited version of the waterboarding sensation, try this: stand in your shower with the water running; tilt your head way back, as if rinsing your hair, and allow the water to spray onto your mouth and nose in a steady stream (but don't forget to hold your breath). Try to hold this pose for 15 seconds. You'll quickly realize the sense of panic that accompanies this activity. Forget your logical, rational mind: this is your "animal brain" reacting.

Now imagine that you are not the one who decides when to stop it. Under real waterboarding, how long do you think it would be before you were denouncing America? I wouldn't give you 30 seconds, in the hands of someone who was truly determined to get you to do it. These videos omit that key factor, but the reporters STILL describe the process as torture.

Folks, the technique was used on exactly three terrorists, all of whom had been uncooperative with less invasive techniques, and all of whom gave up actionable intelligence as a result. And while it doesn't meet the legal definition of torture (right AG Holder?), it is both extreme and the highest escalation of interrogation we have. And if your daughter or son was captured by bad guys, one of whom was in custody of our intelligence agencies, you'd have absolutely no problem endorsing this or anything else to get your loved one back. So stop all the posturing and righteousness, and let's get back to the serious, adult duty of protecting our country from another attack by zealots.

VET (and others):

"I wish we could ask Daniel Pearl if it was torture. Those poor terrorists."

This statement reveals what is really going on with you and many of those who minimize and approve of these methods. They don't really care at all about the stated goal and justification for these methods -- "gathering information" -- what they really want to deal out is humiliation, punishment and, most of all, revenge. In that context, for them, any kind of cruelty and torture is acceptable and the more pain inflicted the better. In fact, the more painful and debilitating and bloody the better. Waterboarding is "mild" in the context of what they would prefer be dealt out as punishment to people who they see as beyond any civilized consideration.

You and others here who defend waterboarding should man up and stop dishonestly arguing that this isn't "torture" or that "we don't torture." Instead, tell it like it is; you totally approve of torture. This just isn't enough torture -- you think detainees in this war "deserve" much more and much worse.

Patrick, actionable intelligence? There's absolutely no proof of that I'm aware of. I know the coward Cheney says there was, but he also said there were WMD, we'd be greeted as liberators, Iraq had nuclear weapons, Iraq was linked to 9/11, there was a connection between Iraq and alQeada, Iraq had biologocal weapons, making him not only a coward but a liar and a totally undependable source of any standard of proof.

Again a person that would condone the beating and torture by a gang of 1 bound and shackled prisoner not knowing if he is guilty is the definition of cowardice, but the only way a draft dodging coward like Cheney would face down a 6th grade school girl let alone a man.

There are two missing factors in the debate; in responding, please, no emotional charges that waterboarding defenders are all evil:

http://www.michnews.com/Guest_Commentary/wff5109.shtml

“The case for NO CASE against Bush Admin and Advisers on Waterboarding” -- PLUS the fact that President Obama shows no EMPATHY for his own savior Jesus Christ (!) who must witness the REAL TORTURE of Jesus’ Personal Treasures dismembered in the womb, thanks to Obama’s constant diligence in protecting the “right” to abort. Re Obama’s Zero Empathy with Jesus, read John Ch1, v3 and note that fetal life cannot be excluded from “all things” being made through Christ.

Re the waterboarding of “HIGH VALUE” terrorists in a “ticking time bomb” case, President Obama will have to witness a CITY destroyed before he’ll admit that the above article is right: “…when a “high-value” terrorist is taken prisoner, he/she REMAINS an ARMED combatant -- unlike traditional POWs.” Such active combatants can be treated as on the battlefield, unless they surrender their “knowledge weapon”. Geneva is for prisoners assumed to be disarmed!

“Knowledge is Power” is recognized as truth down the Ages. Power associated with horrific knowledge demands realistic confrontation lest we lose even hundreds of thousands in that city. The WEAPON of knowledge of how the innocent city-victims will be murdered is what the High Value terrorist WIELDS, tight-lipped, from his prison cell, thus ENSURING SUCCESS for the Agony of an entire city.

Hats off to Mancow and all the other journalists willing to place themselves at risk by being waterboarded so the rest of us cowards can understand whether it is torture or not. Did you ever notice that the most vocal leaders of the pro-torture group are people who somehow avoided serving in our military like Cheney who had at least 5 deferrments because he didn't have time to serve. And, I have never seen a military hero stand up and support torture. Why do you suppose that is?
And, if we gained so much information from torture, why didn't the Bush people release (i.e.; LEAK) any of that information? As Scooter will tell you, they didn't have any hesitation to leak other information they felt might provide a political gain.
And for all you folks who like to say "well torture is OK if it keeps us safe." I'm certain that if Saddam were alive today (and Hitler and Tojo also), they would agree completely with you.
I realize that Cheney did not have the time to serve during Vietnam, but maybe it's not too late. Maybe America should now ask him to serve. Why not at Leavenworth?

It seems that some people would like to do away with the Geneva Convention and sanction torture in this country. Would we also torture our prisoners? Apparently you would also sanction the torture of our troops -- because they also have a "knowledge weapon." And for those who were erroneously picked up as part of the paid sweep after 9/11, it's ok that they were sent off to a secret prison or Guantanamo and tortured (there are other forms of torture we are committing than just waterboarding btw), it's ok because they *could* have known something, even if they were innocent. Or, do we want to use torture for political gains? Maybe as a reason to go to war with an oil-rich country? So many possibilities for this lovely, Christian nation. Why are all these Christians so mean anyway?

Is it ok for foreign countries to waterboard US POWs? No? Then why is ok that the USA practice it?

Realistic:

Citing an article from a right-wing web site doesn’t prove your case, but it certainly gives a lot of insight into where you learned your convoluted writing style and word emphasis by capital letters. Anytime I see someone using all caps I know at a glance that the writer, from either the left or right side of the political spectrum, has to use that device because they can’t make their case using reason and logic.

I have a question for you, Realistic: what would Jesus do? Would Jesus waterboard someone 183 times? Would Jesus slam a sinner against a wall repeatedly? Would Jesus keep someone awake for days on end with their arms hoisted above their backs? If you value what Jesus thinks so much how can you condone these acts?

It never ceases to amaze me how people will wrap themselves in their religion to justify almost every type of evil all the while ignoring the prohibitions their religion has against those very acts. I’m an agnostic so I don’t believe in god, religion or heaven, but I do believe in Hell. It’s here on Earth and can be seen in the thoughts of people like yourself.

Rufus wrote "What kind of real torture is it if reporters, TV personalities and now radio hosts are all giving it a try..."

Answer is simple...It's the kind of torture that many refuse to believe can be that terrifying and abusive..including former VP Cheney.

Realistic:

Citing an article from a right-wing web site doesn’t prove your case, but it certainly gives a lot of insight into where you learned your convoluted writing style and word emphasis by capital letters. Anytime I see someone using all caps I know at a glance that the writer, from either the left or right side of the political spectrum, has to use that device because they can’t make their case using reason and logic.

I have a question for you, Realistic: what would Jesus do? Would Jesus waterboard someone 183 times? Would Jesus slam a sinner against a wall repeatedly? Would Jesus keep someone awake for days on end with their arms hoisted above their backs? If you value what Jesus thinks so much how can you condone these acts?

It never ceases to amaze me how people will wrap themselves in their religion to justify almost every type of evil all the while ignoring the prohibitions their religion has against those very acts. I’m an agnostic so I don’t believe in god, religion or heaven, but I do believe in Hell. It’s here on Earth and can be seen in the thoughts of people like yourself.

The reason “what would Jesus do?” is not always a valid test is that He is NEVER subject to limitations on His power, nor more vulnerable than us unless He temporarily allows it. But we are always so subject; hence the set of what we can do is larger than what “He would do”.

So, it is best to leave you with these thoughts charitably offered. Jesus said he wants people to not only have life but to have it ABUNDANTLY. In granting free will, God knew there would be warring; hence He reluctantly allows Just War as last resort. Warring on Terror by imperfect civilization is a Just War because the terroristic side often gives its victims no chance to make peace with God. So, Jesus allows warring where “necessary”.

Two responses above were judgmental of Christians & Christianity. They ignored the fact that President Obama who says waterboarding IS immoral nevertheless shows Zero Empathy for his own savior, Jesus, no empathy for “ticking time bomb” victims, and no empathy with a former president who found himself dealing with a STRING of WORSENING attacks while not knowing the future. The above article in question does not at all read like general approval of ”torture”. FYI, I’m not a Republican. All Republicans need do is get brave enough to back BOTH Respect Life + Respect God.

I’ve spent thousands of unpaid hours helping those on the low end economically, because Jesus would do that. No, it was more because I had empathy with them.

Both responders also ignored the fact that captured high-value terrorists REMAIN ARMED and thereby extremely dangerously active for ensuring HIGH levels of murder. The earlier one did not seem to know that Geneva made pragmatic decisions based on far less damage potential from “knowledge power” carried by typical traditional soldiers.

To VET,
Terrorists do not represent American values. Torture was one of the reasons given for ousting Saddam. Torture is illegal both internationally and domestically. Our own laws cover ANY PERSON while in US custody and offer protections from torture and abuse.
The verterans who came before us (assuming you are really a vet), who sacrificed their lives for our laws and beliefs, they deserve to be honored by protecting those beliefs. By holding them in such high esteem we will sacrifice everything to maintain our moral clarity and bring those values to the rest of the world through our actions. Even if it means risking our own lives and the lives of our countrymen.
However, if the values YOUR America represents includes torture and a government that will lie to its citizens and the world then by all means move to your favored political environment and become a chinese citizen.

interrogator: Did you kill Sharon Tate?
Cheney: Blub blub blub
interrogator: once more, did you kill Sharon Tate?
Cheney; YES BLUB YES BLUB YES YES YES

Realistic:

Your rationing is that of a religiously elitist individual. Given that people are afraid of these religious "zealots", would it not be wise to calm down on your religious ravings and rather think rationally.

Your argument that a War on Terror is a Just War in God's eyes is perhaps one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Perhaps a refresher course on the Seventh Commandment of your most holy and divine God, "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Did we perhaps forget that one? Your logic behind God being okay with a just war, even if logical, falls short of the overarching power of the Ten Commandments.

Furthermore, have we ever thought why it is that there are there terrorists in the world? Why is it they are against us? Let me give you a hint: It's not all about the Jihad. Most terrorists aren't even Muslim or deeply religious; they're fanatical nationalists; so are Americans. If this country got off its red, white, and blue high horse and understood that we have engaged in more terror acts than the US has suffered, perhaps everyone would be singing a different tune. All it takes for someone to understand that is a careful analysis of Middle Eastern politics throughout the last 50 years.

As for the argument that the terrorists "remain armed" with valuable information, where is your proof? How can anyone be certain that the terrorists know more than they do? Additionally, the high value terrorists that gave their information through waterboarding, did so after a very short time during that procedure. If that is the case, what justifies the continued waterboarding of those prisoners? Haven't they been "disarmed" of their weapon and hence subject to the Geneva Conventions?

Let's keep this discussion on a practical level folks. God has no place in wars. This "war" on terror is no different.

ANY who thinks whatboarding isn't torutre and/or thinks it should be used, ought ot be forced to undergo waterboarding themselves... startings with the jackasses that authorized it and finisheingwith the morons that still support it

and... if you think is not torure i suggest you wirte to EVERY member of the US governemnt and DEMAND a pardon for the japanese soldiers that waterboarded americans to prevent an actual attack that did occur and was the sigle two largest acts of terrorism even to today globally... i'm of course talking about hiroshima and nagasaki whom were attacked MUCH more indiscriminately than anything the US has ever dared call terrorism.

apologies for the massive amount of typos especially i nthe first segment, hopefully everyone could muddle though it but this part deserves correction:

"ANY who thinks whatboarding isn't torutre"
should read:
"ANYONE who thinks waterboarding isn't torture"

Regarding "Rick Aztlan's"comments--while it is undoubtedly true that beheading (at least of the slow variety) is more painful than waterboarding, I don't see how this can be used to justify it. By this logic, rape could be considered an acceptable form of "enhanced interrogation," as could a host of other barbaric horrors.

And regarding his comment: "The Terrorists should not be protected by the Geneva Convention or treated as common criminals. If we leave moral decisions to lawyers; we will pay a terrible price as a nation."--and who should we leave to make these decisions? That great monument to virtue, Dick Cheney?

That fact is, civilization had come to a general agreement that some forms of behavior were beyond the pale, and they attempted put these activities on a high shelf beyond the reach of expediency or passing fancy by codifying these prohibitions in treaties and other documents such as our Bill of Rights. Any attempt to justify breaches of these standards, these laws, by suggesting that "our torture isn't as bad as THEIR torture" is evidence of some pretty primitive morality--no more persuasive than a murderer attempting to excuse his crime by pointing to the Holocaust.

A society that casts aside these most basic restrictions on the conduct of its members does so at considerable peril to its own survival. Civilization is, at best, a thin veneer--a very important veneer to be sure--which is all the more reason it should be carefully protected. To cast off these restrictions is to invite descent down an extremely slippery slope. One need only look at the experiments of Zimbardo or Milgram to understand this—or, of course, the Holocaust itself, where a nation that was looked upon as one of the most “civilized” on earth became, over the course of a decade, the most destructive force the world has ever seen.

So, terrorists SHOULD be protected by the Geneva Convention—SHOULD be protected by the Convention Against Torture (not to mention our own Constitution's prohibition against “cruel and unusual punishment”)--and not just because these documents are the law and clearly and unambiguously apply to ALL human beings in all circumstances, but because we respect civilization itself.

PS. For those that believe the self-serving lies of Cheney and think the above named documents don't apply to so-called “enemy combatants” consider that our own Supreme Court ruled that Geneva DOES apply. And here is a key provision of the Convention Against Torture:

No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.

Lets just cut off their heads and NOT call it torture. THEN we can argue about what is and what is not self defense. If the enemy knows we will treat them "nice" then whats to stop them? There is no form of discipline that will correct a radical like the terrorists. Why do the liberals insist that these animals can be changed to the humane ways of the world when they are so brainwashed as to think that death is the only means of accomplishing their goals. Yea... lets reach out in compassion with one hand while they slit our throats with the other. Sounds like a winning plan.

So let me get this straight. Obama's a hero when he issues an order to shoot and kill 3 pirates to save the life of an American ship captain but when Bush issues an order to waterboard 3 terrorists to save the lives of thousands of Americans, it's a crime.

Ignorant hypocrites.

I give him credit for doing it. Take the political debate out of the equation and you've got a guy who shot off his mouth, said he'd try it before he denounced it as child's play, did it, and admitted he was wrong. Granted, he could stop it at any time. I'm sure he would admit to wearing women's underwear if he was strapped to a table, being professionally drowned by "interrogators" with masks on.

http://www.newsy.com/videos/media_figures_try_out_torture

Regarding the comments of "tim" of May 26--this is a perfect example of the confusion lurking behind the rationalizations for torture. He says at one point, "If the enemy knows we will treat them 'nice' then what’s to stop them?" but acknowledges that they believe that "death is the only means [they have] of accomplishing their goals." A terrorist committed to dying for the cause is clearly not likely to be dissuaded from committing mayhem no matter what might await them. So to insist that torture will protect us by deterring their outrages is nonsense. And then Mr. tim becomes even more confused, asking, "Why do the liberals insist that these animals can be changed to the humane ways of the world . . . ?" and ridicules the idea of "reaching out with compassion with one hand while they slit our throats with the other. Sounds like a winning plan." The argument against torture has little to do with "changing" the bad guys into good guys--it's really much more about us than them, about us not allowing ourselves to be changed by their brutality to embrace brutality ourselves. Why is it so hard to understand? By becoming torturers, we play right into the terrorists' hands, while betraying our own long-held ideals. Anyone who thinks our adoption of torture gives the terrorists pause has absolutely no understanding of the issue. There is no doubt that when the leaders of al-Qaeda first heard of America's use of torture, there must have been great celebration. America had just proven itself the hypocrites that our enemies had always claimed we were. America was not the great defender of human rights it tried to claim, the world's most powerful force for good. Instead, they were weak, fearful, reactionary--turning themselves over to bone-headed quick-fixes advocated by such moral and intellectual giants as Cheney and Bush. Edward R. Murrow once pointed out that we were not the descendents of timid men, and that is certainly true. But we have become a country of timid men nonetheless--a people who would grasp blindly at an illusory security while giving up our most cherished values.

And making our enemies deliriously happy in the process.

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