A tangential follow-up to the recent discussion, "Rehearsing your own prejudices," from the Institute for the Destruction of Tooth Fairy Science, via Hell's News Stand (which also has the R-rated version).
A drop of diluted background (from Wikipedia) on homeopathy -- a little dab'll do ya:
... Homeopathic remedies are usually diluted to the point where there are no molecules from the original solution left in a dose of the final remedy. Since even the longest-lived noncovalent structures in liquid water at room temperature are only stable for a few picoseconds, critics have concluded that any effect that might have been present from the original substance can no longer exist. No evidence of stable clusters of water molecules was found when homeopathic remedies were studied using NMR.
Furthermore, since water will have been in contact with millions of different substances throughout its history, critics point out that any glass of water is therefore an extreme dilution of almost any conceivable substance, and so by drinking water one would, according to homeopathic principles, receive treatment for every imaginable condition.
P.S. As we all know, homeopathy only works when making dry martinis. You allow one ray of light to shine through the bottle of vermouth into the bottle of gin before pouring the latter.
(tip: Tim Lloyd)
So does this mean that if you follow the mythical rule of drinking eight glasses of water a day, you'll be invincible? Yes... invincible...
The problem with disproving homeopathic medicine is that the type of person who would believe in it in the first place is likely the type of person that would observe the lack of scientific evidence proving its efficacy, and conclude only that it is the result of a conspiratorial cabal of pharmaceutical producers hiding information because they don't want people to know homeopathy works, so they'll keep buying their drugs for all that ails them. I've had more than a couple of such debates with close friends, and we usually end by agreeing to disagree. If someone has a fundamental distrust of reputable information, there's really not much you can do to convince them something they believe in may be disreputable.
Or in far more elegant terms, I guess you could say it's an issue of being "skeptical of skepticism"?
JE: Yes! I'm glad you pointed this out explicitly: "The problem with disproving homeopathic medicine is that the type of person who would believe in it in the first place is likely the type of person that would observe the lack of scientific evidence proving its efficacy..." People like to think they're "skeptical" -- even when they're just being perverse, or contrarian, or anti-authoritarian, or iconoclastic, or rebelliously individualistic, or whatever. Those are purely reactionary attitudes; they're not properly "skepticism," which is an open-minded decision to reserve judgment until a consideration of the available evidence. Some people get better because their bodies heal, even without any treatment. Some get better because they feel better that they're doing something to make themselves get better (or feel better because they're doing something to make themselves feel better). If you don't believe in the scientific method (or if you're skeptical about how it is sometimes used), then that (again) is something that is beyond the reach of science. To paraphrase the "Rehearsing your own prejudices" clip: If you say homeopathic medicine has worked for you, I have no way of independently verifying your experience. That's why we have, say, clinical trials. Of course, the results may be misreported for other reasons, but that's has nothing to do with science. If the science is done according to the rules of science, then the results will be valid and repeatable.
I'm glad you liked that, Jim. I found the poster on the excellent blog, Science-Based Medicine: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org It's a very well-written blog with multiple bloggers from the medicine and science communities, focusing on using scientific methods to validate medical procedures. As you might imagine, they spend a good deal of time taking down homeopaths, anti-vacciners, and other practitioners of the medical branch of what The Amazing Randi refers to as "flim-flam."
I have to admit that when I was a high school student, I was quite heavily interested in homeopathy, due to someone in my family dating a homeopath. Eventually I discovered skepticism (likely at some point along my education as an engineer) and came to my own conclusions about homeopathy.
Kris,
you described my mother perfectly:
"conclude only that it is the result of a conspiratorial cabal of pharmaceutical producers hiding information because they don't want people to know homeopathy works,"
oh well, at least when it's serious I convince her to go to the doctor.
That would make a great shirt, I would love to have one.
That's just sad. 3:1 gin:vermouth is about right.
I recently read a book on British naval history, and there was a comment about the mutiny at Spithead in...was it 1745? Anyway, there are many conspiracy theories that the mutiny was engineered by the Irish, or the French or whatnot. The author points out that there is no evidence for this, but that the conspiracy theorists continue to hold to their beliefs. He says, "Here we have the conspiracy theory in its purist form, where the complete lack of evidence is merely proof of the diabolical cleverness of the conspirators."
I love that line...
My personal experience with Homeopathic medicine has had mixed results for me and a friend.
About a year ago,I,wanting to improve my energy level,my mental clarity,and rid myself of a slight case of Seborreic Dermatitus,and my friend,wanting to stop his premature hair loss(Hes only twenty nine!)as well as try something natural for the dizzyness brought on by his Menieres disease(he was prescribed something that he felt was not working as well as it should,and prevented him from drinking),decided to buy a few items from a magazine called Healthy Living.
Here is a list of each product and how effective they were on our individual problems:
Accai capsules,for energy and mental clarity.To be taken once a day by mouth.The first day I took these I became adgitated,and nervous,but I kept taking them,and after a week I did seem to have more energy,and I did see some improvment in concentration and clarity.
Natralia,for the Seborreic Dermatitus.A cream to be applied 2-4 times a day on the affected area.Worked about as well as the medication my doctor prescribed,took a little longer to clear up though.
Transdermal,for hair loss.an oil to be applied once a day on the scalp.After about a month,my friend said he saw no new hair growth,but did notice that his hair stopped falling out as much as it did.
Bio Ear,for ringing in the ear(forgot the medical term),and the treatment of Vertigo.To be taken when needed by placing a cotton soaked with the oil,in the ear for an hour.Again,mixed results.My friend tells me that the ringing only slightly diminished,but he did feel that most of his dizzyness had gione away,and was happy to feel better in that regard.
So,there you go!Homeopathic medicine,while not perfect,does work to some extent.
I did eventually visit a Dermatologist to try out something stronger,faster working,and more effective,which ended up working out better in the end,even though using the prescribed medication could potentially give me HPA disease.
I also asked him whether or not he believes in the efficacy of all natural medication.He told me that some natural medications work,and some dont.
Are you confusing the definition of homeopathic with herbal/natural? If the substances you tried contained measurable amounts of the substance named on the package, then they weren't homepoathic.
If they were homeopathic versions, then, by definition, they contained nothing. You might as well have drunk tap water, rubbed vaseline on your skin, or poured mineral oil into your friend's ear.
Not every good thing can be attributed to what you took. I water my lawn occasionally, and also own a dog; is that why a tiger has never walked through my neighborhood?
James :|
sam:
Wait a minute, are you conflating "alternative" and "natural" and "holistic" medicine with homeopathy? They're not the same. Some unconventional treatments may actually work. True homeopathy NEVER will. Ever. At least not beyond the obvious placebo effect.
Whoops.
Truthfully,I had always thought they were one and the same.It seems I was wrong.
sam:
Right. But a lot of people confuse the terms, so it's cool.
Wikipedia has a decent artile on homeopathy. (LOL, so does the Rotten library, come to think of it.)
Thanks.I was pretty embarrassed :)
Don't be : )
As a practicing Homeopath I must chime in to set the record straight. It is true that the dilutions involved are as described by the author. Beneficial results are measurable for many patients, even if they can be attributed exclusively and solely to a placebo effect. If they think it helps, who's to say that it isn't?
So, let this be our little secret, and stop discouraging people.I'm making serious money with this stuff!
JE: Why not just call it "placebo juice"? Or, better yet, "water." People are making a mint selling water.
I realize this is an old post but this is pretty funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0