BEWARE: If you pre-ordered or bought a DVD/Blu-ray of the gorgeous Swedish vampire picture "Let the Right One In" -- don't open it! Return it immediately. For reasons that defy business sense (and artistic sense and common sense), on March 10, 2009, Magnolia Home Video/Magnet Releasing put out one of 2008's most acclaimed movies on discs with stripped-down, poorly translated subtitles -- NOT the version released in North American theaters. Last week disappointed and conscientious bloggers from Icons of Fright, Bloody-Disgusting.com and elsewhere were on top of the story, shocked that such a high-profile release would be given such shoddy treatment. The company says the disc is not technically "defective." It does what it's supposed to do, apparently. It just does it badly. Don't buy it. Return it.
UPDATED after jump...
(View comparisons here.)
A spokesperson for Magnolia/Magnet contacted by nearly-impossible-to-navigate site, TheDigitalBits.com, has reportedly claimed that, in response to viewer objections, it will correct the error on future pressings, but:
There are no exchanges. We are going to make an alternate version available however. For those that wish to purchase a version with the theatrical subtitles, it will be called out in the tech specs box at the back/bottom of the package where it will list SUBTITLES: ENGLISH (Theatrical), SPANISH.
Why would a company treat one of its most prized assets in such a way? I asked a friend who has worked on the subtitling/captioning of many great films DVD and other formats. He writes:
I talked to my supervisor, after first making sure it wasn't my company that helped foist those titles onto the public, and the conclusion we came to is the one the writer of that post came to-- it was undoubtedly an economic decision that betrayed little or no care as to the actual quality of the translation. We run into this all the time, and our efforts to campaign against using the cheap stuff (often translations that are rendered by people who aren't completely conversant and/or educated in the given language) are usually successful-- we have a bunch of very smart folks who can demonstrate the lackluster qualities of a translation like the one used for "Let the Right One In" before the thing gets encoded and rendered onto thousands of discs. My Swedish translator friend said that he felt even the theatrical version left something to be desired, but that it was generally pretty good, and far superior to the hack job in evidence here.
We often see these kinds of translations, but most of the stuff we do is generated from files created and timed to the original dialogue by English editors (like me) and then sent to the translators for the ordered languages, all of whom are degree-educated in the languages they are dealing with. They're familiar with the different dialects and subtle shifts of meaning that not only occur from English to another language, but often within the new languages themselves, which could easily torpedo a screenplay posthaste if not given proper attention. I'm not saying what we do is perfect, but it's almost always demonstrably better than a translation created by someone working on the cheap, and we routinely get good feedback from viewers who know the language as well as those who don't.
Meanwhile, AVOID VIDEO VERSIONS of "Let the Right One In" until the one with the theatrical subtitles becomes available. The top customer review on Amazon.com warns potential buyers of the screw-up -- though I hate to see a movie get so many one-star comments from people who love the movie but hate what the territorial video distributor has done to it.
UPDATE: In a comment at Icons of Horror, Andrew Frank, who identifies himself as the head of the DVD division of Mongrel Media (which released the film in Canada with the same "subtitle issues"), quotes Magnolia's official response, which he received on Friday the 27th:
Yes the bloggers are having a field day on this one. Normally they like to pick on the English Dub tracks, but in this case it's the subtitles. Obviously online tend to get rowdy and bandwagon mentality without knowing all the details. The current subtitle track is not altering the context of the film at all, in fact it's a more literal translation than any prior version of subtitles. It's not a defective or faulty subtitle file. Just more literal and larger in size for the small screen. Both English and Spanish subtitle files were produced for this dvd release. Frankly it's not all that uncommon to have the subs vary from prior releases, typically go unnoticed as subs are purely a translation of film dialogue. This wouldn't have been a blip had it not been for one particular horror blog doing a side by side and claiming that they are wrong. They are not. We are not doing a recall or anything of that nature, again, these are not defective. Title came out two weeks ago and general public don't notice and don't care - bloggers are well known for jumping on something, making an issue of it and moving on. We have decided that based on the feedback that we will be making a running change, so that going forward (once inventories deplete), we will be making that subtitle version available. Options in set up will be; English Subtitles / English (theatrical) Subtitles / Spanish Subtitles.
Nice attitude. Blame the messenger. You can judge for yourself if the new English titles are up to the standards of the US theatrical release by viewing the comparisons here.
Thanks for the heads up. I hadn't heard about this anywhere else on the internet.
I've been waiting for the better part a year to see this movie since it didn't play any theaters near where I live. I finally was able to put it on hold at my local library, and if it is this hackjob version I'm really going to be pissed.
Am I missing something, or isn't it economically counterproductive to get another subtitle job done, when you already have one from the theatrical release?
What a ripoff. I really wonder if the director is comfortable with this kind of handling of his film, or if he even knows about it. I definately wouldn't be happy if I were him.
I don't understand. Why can't Magnolia allow exchanges for the DVD? They're only damaging their image and reputation by doing that. Apparently they don't mind if their customers get the shaft.
Wow, I never thought this kind of thing happened. I mean, it seems possible, but you'd think they would always use the same transcript. I wonder what other movies this may have happened to....
Crap. Too late for me!
I wish I had known about it before I rented and watched it a couple weeks ago. When the AVClub posted about this, I was very disappointed. While I still enjoyed the movie, I wish I had the proper translation.
Ouch. I've already paid money to rent it, so I'll watch it. I've seen my share of Asian movies on bootleg DVDs from China, so I'm used to bad translations. But this sucks.
I bought the Blu Ray version via Amazon.com without seeing the film in theaters. I've since opened the packaging, but not watched the film. Don't think I will now. Can't return it, can't really watch it. I'm bitter.
Wonderful
I just put the movie on my netflix queue
That is so frustrating...I've been looking foward to this moving coming out on BluRay for a while. I haven't gotten a chance to watch it yet, but now I feel like I'll be watching a second rate version. I hope they release the original subtitles soon. How cheap does Magnolia have to be to not pay for the rights to the original translations?
This was something I noticed when watching the Bluray when I bought it (to bad I already opened it). I had seen the movie in theaters just about a month before, and, although it wasn't as fresh as it could have been, those subtitles were still in my head. I knew them to be different when the movie started, if only slightly, simply by observation, but, when it came to the scene in which Oskar asks to date Eli, I noticed that all of the hilarity I had experienced in the theater was gone. No one who watched the Bluray with me had seen it in the theaters, and so they didn't get why I realized that the scene was no where near as funny as it should have been, or, at the very least, intelligable, since the new subtitles didn't seem to make any sense whatsoever. I guess I'll just have to buy the new edition and sell my old one, or something.
Savvy
May I simply chime in with nathan m? In what way is getting *another* translation done more economical than using the one on hand? Clearly they have access to it, as they are using it on future pressings.
Too bad this had to happen to this wonderful film. I was fortunate to see the film at my local university with the "good" subtitles. I have seen this phenomenon occur with various Korean and Hong Kong releases, most notably for "Attack the Gas Station," an '01 or so South Korean release that was hysterical on film but completely failed on the import DVD I purchased, due to subtitles that completely missed the humor and nuance. (Admittedly, there is less nuance than mayhem in this film.)
Yeah, I found out about this two days after I saw the movie. I thought the movie was fantastic WITH the crappy subtitles, but it does bug me that I didn't get the proper experience. The movie doesn't seem to be one heavily focused on dialogue, but there's no arguing that the dialogue I read was very basic stuff (though there was certainly no disguising the depth of the plot).
But then again, for a truly "proper" experience, I suppose I'd have to learn Swedish.
Reading about this whole subtitle fiasco made me realize just how much I've taken subtitles in foreign films for granted. I guess I just kind of assume that I'm getting the closest translation I can get from someone who actually gives a crap about the film. This should be concerning to anyone who is a fan of foreign films and doesn't speak several languages - the job of the translator needs to be taken seriously.
The second update on Icons of Fright, with Magnolia's response to a reader e-mail, is pretty indicative of the way Magnolia treats customers, filmmakers, and people in general.
In all my attempts (failed, alas) to attract traditional distribution for my own films (now self-distributing, click on my URL, plug-plug), I have never been treated by anyone else with the disrespect and derision with which Magnolia treated me. Every other distributor-- every single one-- at least acknowledged that I was a human being and treated me with respect and courtesy. Though those other companies have passed on my films, there are no hard feelings and indeed I count some of them as friends.
But not Magnolia; Magnolia treated me like I wasn't a person at all and was, dare I say, verbally abusive.
In sum, their response to this whole situation is pretty much par for the course.
(And if you want to chalk all this up to the bitterness of a disgruntled and failed filmmaker, that's certainly your perogative.)
I'm relieved.
I viewed the DVD from Netflix about ten days ago and the subtitles were same as the theatrical version screen grabs from the link you provided in your blog. Eli definitely said that she lived on the jungle him. I guess Netflix let the right one in.
However, I noticed the English dubbing did not match the subtitles at all. The subtitles were more nuanced, so I watched it with the original language, which is always the right way to go.
Huh. I watched it in the theater and watched it at home as well. I guess I am not very observant, because I didn't notice the difference. Maybe once or twice I had a vague feeling that something was not as I'd remembered it, but I'm not sure. Ah well, I mainly watch movies for the visuals anyway. Plot and dialogue are distractions, somewhat. Usually I don't ever even learn the characters' names when I watch a flick – and I've never seen a murder mystery that I understood. By the way, I did find the movie to be extraordinarily visually appealing, like watching an Antonio Lopez Garcia painting in motion.
Here in Canada that film was released through mongrel media. Would you happen to know if it has the same subtitles as the theatrical release or just a rehash of the magnolia release?
JE: There's a comment from the head of Mongrel's DVD division here:
I guess Netflix has two versions then because I got one (on Blu-ray) with the dumbed-down subtitles. I didn't know until reading the article about it (it was my first and only viewing of the film). I still loved the film but was very surprised to find that the tone was completely different from what was intended. Now I want to see it again with proper dialog!
The reason you would pay for another translation over using a text you already have is that subtitles and translations have copyrights separate from the original film/script, so, it indeed could have been cheaper to hire some schmuck with the script and a Babelfish bookmark in his web browser than to pay for the rights to use the original subtitles in DVD release.
They probably saved quite a chunk of change that way.
That's the reason. Doesn't make it a good one.
This film opened locally the same week it was released on DVD and I chose to see it in theaters. I read about this at Icons of Fright the other day and have been warning my friends about it. One had already rented the DVD and chose the dubbed option (why would anyone do that?). He said the dubbing was particularly bad (well, duh). I was thinking of buying this, but will wait now to make sure I get the right version.
Jim, in talking to someone I know conversant in the world of foreign film translations, I gather that in many cases it is not incumbent upon a company, upon releasing a foreign language film, to use the theatrical subtitles, and it may very well be that the rights to use those titles is more expensive than other more cheaply produced translations that may be available. It’s entirely possible that Magnolia may have decided not to purchase those theatrical titles, for reasons of expense, or that they went with the translation that was used because they honestly believed that what they chose represented an improvement over the titles with which the people who saw the film in theaters were familiar. Of course, this is all speculation, and one could just as easily speculate that the translation used was way cheaper (not an unreasonable guess). But it is pretty significant, I think, that on the Magnolia release the default audio is not to the original Swedish audio (with accompanying lame translation), but instead to the English-dubbed version. Just this one decision seems indicative of Magnolia’s indifference to the real market for purchasers of this movie, most of whom probably saw the Swedish version in theatres and who would not have the aversion to subtitles that Magnolia seems to think they would.
JE: Thanks, Dennis. As the comparisons show, I doubt anyone would say they're an "improvement" over the North American theatrical version. (Apparently the Region 2 UK release will use the more grammatical "international" version of the English subtitles.) I certainly have seen DVD releases boasting new and better subtitles, though. I added an update to the original post with a quote from Magnolia's "official" (internal) response, according to the guy who heads the DVD division of the Canadian distributor, which got the same version. It's clear Magnolia just doesn't give a damn. They think nobody would have noticed if a few picky bloggers hadn't gotten all pissy about it. Isn't Mark Cuban -- same guy who owns Landmark Theaters -- a partner in Magnolia, too? You'd think he'd know better for simple business reasons. One claim Magnolia apparently made was that the new subtitles were shorter, larger, and therefore easier to read. Lame excuse, since the disc subtitles obviously are not actually printed on the film as the 35 mm ones are. They were simply unwilling to expend the time, money or effort to do the job properly -- at least as well as it was done for the theatrical release. BTW, the clip from "LTROI" I included in my year-end "best favorite movies" video didn't have any subtitles at all, but you got the idea. It was part of the scene where Oskar first encounters Eli. Now that "LTROI" is already in development as an 2010 American feature, maybe Magnolia felt the original was just old news. I don't know what they were thinking.
"Title came out two weeks ago and general public don't notice and don't care - bloggers are well known for jumping on something, making an issue of it and moving on."
This is all I needed to hear. Pretty strange and disconcerting to hear a specialty label like Magnolia referring to the "general public" in such a condescending manner, considering that how the "general public" is defined for the kinds of films they release is quite a patch different than Paramount readying a DVD/Blu-ray for the newest Indiana Jones movie. But because the actual audience for which they are ostensibly releasing this "product" did care, did notice, did call them on the carpet for their bad decisions, now they start talking about the translation used being more "literal" and "larger in size" as positives in order to begin papering over this P.R. debacle. Are all Magnolia's titles rendered in this "larger" font, one that makes the titles look as if they're big enough to be read by second-graders? (Doubtful.) And why, exactly, is a more "literal" translation necessarily a better translation? If one had any understanding of the world in which this movie operates, one might also understand that elements of poetry and allusion and other forms of subtlety are at work here, elements that tend to get flattened when the words are approached more literally-- in kind of the same way that stories get flattened and otherwise have their idiosyncrasies ironed out on the way to the mutliplexes. This "translates" to me as indifference, if not outright hostility, toward the original intent of the work. And really, if this feedback, from wherever it might have been generated, was so insignificant, why then would Magnolia bother back-tracking at all, even after "inventories are depleted"? My thanks to you, Jim, and to Icons of Fright and Bloody-Disgusting.com for helping to publicize Magnolia's blunder and their subsequent nonsensical attitude.
Lame.
What about the spanish dubbing? Is it any good?
I mention this because i live in Baja California, Mexico, where the movie isn't going to play in teathers (Central Mexico only, for some inane reason)and the american DVD is the only (legal) way to get it.
If the spanish dubbing is as bad, then that could ruin a movie that i've waied a long time to see, since i am something of a vampire fan, and from what i've been able to see about the film, it looks like something different, and one of the greats from the genre.
If not there's always:
-The book (which i'll try to get regardless)
-Ebertfest (which is a bit of a stretch), or
-The remake..... well, scratch that. I'm not waiting.
JE: Reportedly the English and Spanish subtitles were both prepared for this DVD/Blu-ray release, but I haven't heard complaints about the Spanish. (And I don't speak Spanish, unfortunately, so I wouldn't even know what to google for.) If you do find out something, please let us know!
I think I speak for all of us when I say...
"Do not want!"
(For those who don't know, that Engrish phrase originated from a case of bad subtitles.)
Thank you to those of you who helped clear up the question I had over the financial advantages of getting a new subtitle job.
The idea that Magnolia/Magnet has lost the rights to the theatrical subtitles seems strange to me. Why wouldn't a studio work out a contract that equips them to the rights for both theatrical and DVD/Blu-Ray release? Do the same rules apply when a studio purchases the rights to a pop song? Or is it a deliberate choice on the studios part to hire out two separate subtitle jobs?
These are honest questions as I've never given too much thought to subtitle rights and practices.
As bad as the subtitles appear to be (and yes, I was one of the ones who excitedly purchased the DVD on its release date only to be horror-stricken upon the initial viewing), I'm almost more disturbed by the ever-increasing trend of using the glaring, large yellow subtitles that seem to take up the entire bottom of the screen. Other films (including the theatrical version of LET THE RIGHT ONE IN) have made significant efforts to make the subtitles less intrusive, whether it's a nicer, white font underneath the image or set under the character speaking, or taking a more active role in the film (like the subtitles for NIGHT WATCH). Is the decision to use the sickly yellow subtitles due to cost considerations?
I am really worried that we won't see the corrected version anytime soon. Magnolia has promised it "once inventories deplete". This is obviously not a major release and most of the target audience who would buy this disc are wary of this version. How long will it take before there is a need for a new pressing with the theatrical subtitles?
I rented this a few weeks ago and popped it in my blu ray player. The dub track was the default. But I didn't realize this until after the first chapter since there is no one speaking in the beginning. When I went to the menu to correct the settings to the subtitles, it was difficult and I had to try several times. The film kept starting all over each time. Very frustrating. When I finally got the subtitles on and the english dub off, I got to experience the film without any problems. I did not notice any translation issues or anything confusing. Great film by the way. Totally horrifying.
Chris: Whether or not you see those gigantic yellow subtitles is mostly dependent on what subtitling house the studio or DVD releasing company chooses to use. Each of those houses decide the size and style of the font they want to use independently, and what you see depends on who the studio hires to do the work. As I alluded to earlier, I too am very annoyed by the obtrusive size of fonts like the one used on LTROI, but that bright yellow can be annoying too. And the use of that color is usually the province of the studio; it is an option, not a standard imposed by the subtitling house. The subtitle font used by the company I work for is thinner, slightly smaller, far less obnoxious (at least to my eye), and we render 99% of our work in white-colored letters that are set off slightly by a dark border that "lifts" the text slightly off the picture and makes it more readable without calling too much attention to the titles. If you take a look at recent English-language Criterion discs like White Dog, The Thief of Bagdad, The Friends of Eddie Coyle or TV series on DVD like 24 or Mary Tyler Moore you can see what our work looks like.
Bob: I thought about that depletion-of-inventory issue too. Might be a while before I buy this particular Blu-ray.
I wasn't angry about the lack of an exchange program at first because hey, it's nice that they listened to complaints at all, but this attitude is pretty amazing. Sounds like whoever wrote that is venting because of how much it will cost to fix this and save face...but hey, why not blame the guy who thought this was a great way to save money?
Well, at least I did my part to deplete their Blu-ray stock.
Magnolia/ Magnet striked their 35mm prints in LA(USA 35mm theatrical prints has the Magnet logo attached) with overlayed English subtitles provided by the producer EFTI of Sweden/ International sales agent BAVARIA MEDIA GmbH of Germany. These spotting list containing the English subtitles are provided to the licensee (Magnolia) at no cost. They were used in the 35mm prints. I am 100% sure of this.
What amazes me is why did Magnolia or it's representative re-create the English subtitles when they obviously possess the original files from the producers? Was it to churn up a creative fee/ bill to offset cost on a minimum guarantee deal with BAVARIA MEDIA to make the film un-recoupable?
I just cannot understand the rationale behind their actions.
I love the "general public" comment. By and large the general public doesn't watch subtitled movies (exception being The Passion) and the DVD release itself will continue to go unnoticed by them.. According to boxofficemojo it's widest release was 53 screens and it did a total haul of around $2million stateside. In Cincinnati I had to wait until early February to see it and the tiny art theatre had it for two whole weeks.
I'd love to buy it on DVD but I guess I'll be waiting a while considering I don't think the demand will be high enough for their inventories to deplete quickly.
Pisses. Me. Off.
I noticed this when I watched through the film and a large portion of subtitled dialogue was simply missing. I will just take my DVD somewhere and get "used" credit and then order the correct version.
Seriously, though, they should offer an exchange for any dissatisfied customers. If, after all, the "general public don't notice and don't care," then it shouldn't be too big of a profit loss to offer an exchange to the, I suppose, relatively small number of us who are relentless fussbudgets about high-quality product.
(also, I wasn't aware that the "general public" gave a rat's ass about this movie. they all loved TWILIGHT and other stupid crap, right?)
It was disappointing enough to have such sub-standard subtitles released in the first place, but to have such a condescending and, quite frankly, insulting public statement made by the head of Mongrel Media's DVD division is a real kick in the teeth.
The only version I've seen of this film was the non-theatrical subtitles one. While I felt it was a good film, I didn't connect with the characters as much as I would have liked.
And then this whole furor kicked off. The theatrical subtitles were shown to have more subtlety and seemed to better represent the emotions and feelings that the characters were experiencing. Damn it, have I been robbed of something quite valuable? Namely, the experience of art?
Oh, but Andrew Frank tells us that the version is "a more literal translation than any prior version of subtitles."
Which would be fine, of course, if it didn't happen to be total B.S.
Don, on iconsofright.com gives us the original Swedish dialogue:
- Bor du här, eller… ?
- Ja, jag bor här på klätterställningen.
- Visst. Men var bor du?
- Bredvid dig.
- Hur vet du var jag bor?
Clearly this exchange does not translate to, "Where do you live? / I live here next to you." Where's the banter? The dialogue that reveals hidden aspects of a character's personality?
I'll tell you where.
The original theatrical subtitles.
That initial viewing can never be replaced. I feel as though my experience has been stolen from me. I hope to watch this film again in a few years and enjoy it the way it was meant to be enjoyed (without having to learn Swedish at least ;) )
All the best.
I have written two e-mails to Magnolia Pictures about this situation. I wrote the first one about a week ago; since I didn't get a response like I had expected, I'm writing another one (shorter and a little less bully-ish), and asking for a response.
I basically asked them why they felt that saying their customers were wrong for wanting the right subtitles. Yes, a full recall would be expensive, but why not a voluntary recall? Less expensive, solves the problem almost as well.
I hate to admit it, but reading this news affords me a bit of schadenfreude for every DVD I've purchased or rented that had crappy closed captioning with dialogue or notable effects missing ~ not to mention the fact that only about 2% of bonus features or commentaries are *ever* closed captioned.
I've yet to see any blog posts or articles from any mainstream (non hearing impaired focused) organization on those issues.
Suffices to say that I know the anger being expressed about this snafu... times 100.
Jim, thanks for your post on this and thanks for the link to the "Fright" sight so I could see for myself. I'd heard about this and I now understand -- the theatrical subtitles are far superior in any literary sense and create a more subtle and effective portrayal of the characters delivering these lines of dialog. I'd been looking forward to this release but I'll wait for the re-do on the DVD. Come on, Magnolia, wake up.
Reminds me of the time I rented a two-disc special edition from the local grocery store, only to find the second disc was not included.
After alerting the manager, she said they didn't give the second disc because of liability issues ... and that I wouldn't want it because it only had the "artsy, fartsy" stuff on it, anyway.
I never shopped there again.
Thanks for the heads up. I had entered a bid for this on Ebay but when I heard about the subtitle issue I retracted it. Let someone else (who is not as informed by reading your lovely blog) get stuck with it!
I just downloaded "Let the Right One In" from Netflix and as near as I can tell it uses the preferred subtitles.