The Apatow schlub: Too ugly for the girl?

I'm shocked to say this, but I actually agree with Wells to some extent. Using Apatow himself doesn't really work as a comparison though, because while not the best looking man, he is a rich, successful producer. The looks of these characters in these films don't strike me as an immediate dealbreaker, but couple it with the fact they're basically losers in every other way, except for an ability make a nice wisecrack, and it becomes harder to believe.

The romance in The 40 Year Old Virgin isn't hard to buy, because Carell's a reasonably looking person, and both him and Catherine Keener appear to be modest, middle class people. However, in Knocked Up and Forgetting Sarah Marshall, complete and total losers like the characters played by Rogen and Segel romance a successful entertainment news reporter and a famous actress respectively. I have trouble buying that. I don't think it's ruining our movies, but I certainly believe that there's a certain amount of wish fullfilment going on in these films towards a certain demographic.

JE: You're right -- romantic comedies are always about wish fulfillment (and, emotionally, Apatow's are probably a little more realistic than traditional Hollywood romances). But whose wish-fulfillment is it? The "regular guys" (and their dates) who buy the tickets and the DVDs! We can't very well pretend that "Sixteen Candles" and "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" and (most influential of all) "Revenge of the Nerds" didn't transform popular romantic comedy back in the '80s...

Wells' response reminds me of a film reviewer for my college paper who used to annoy me. Her biggest complaint about the John Dahl thriller JOY RIDE was that she didn't think the lead actors were attractive -- Paul Walker, Leelee Sobieski, Steve Zahn.

JE: Last week or so, Wells complained about "Chapter 27," the ugly film about the killing of John Lennon, on the grounds that either Lennon's or Mark David Chapman's hair was too dark and it really bugged him. The hair.

Couples that don't look similar make me want to vomit. How dare average looking folks tarnish the beautiful. And to expose me, a movie lover, to an average man's genitals? How dare they. Everyone knows you only have a right to bare your peewee if you are ten inches uncut. Thanks a lot, ugly people, for ruining my life.

The comment about the hair annoying Wells reminds me of Stephanie Zacharek's review of "No Country..." where she kept mentioning how Chigurh's hair was too distracting and kept her from appreciating the movie. She mentions the hair so many times in the review that its unbelievable! She was similarly put off by Batman Begins because she didn't like the look of the Batmobile and War Of the Worlds because of the 911 imagery! I wonder if both she and this Wells chap suffer from sort of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder!

Real people on the screen. Outrageous! I never go to the gym. Should I kill myself?

How can this hack have a job?

Anyone who writes a review like Wells', and continues to think that schlubs don't get attractive girls is out of their mind. What does this guy think Joe Jackson's song "Is She Really Going Out With Him?" was written about? Obviously (painfully to everyone buy Wells, apparantly) this is a common phenomenon. I bet that I can spot twenty "schlubs" at the movie theater today, and all of them will have moderately attractive to smokin' hot partners.

Haven't seen Sarah Marshall yet, but the problem I had with Knocked Up wasn't that he was unattractive, but he was lazy and unmotivated. I mean looks aren't everything - an unattractive guy can land a beautiful and successful woman, but usually he has to balance it out with ambition and drive and success. (Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son)

In real life you sometimes see very pretty women with average guys, but then you also see a fair number of really fat women with tall, good-looking guys. You ever see the latter couple in a movie?

No, me neither.

wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute...

what's wrong with my open-collared plaid dress shirts?

this guy is a serious douchebag. i felt a tangible anger while reading that. Hey Wells, go back to combing your eyebrows!

Apatow makes the most of a phenomenon that isn't remotely new. I think it may have really kicked in in Budweiser commercials. Also see King of Queens, World According to Jim, etc. The schlubs are not only unattractive losers, but also dumb, thoughtless, and only unintentionally witty. Apatow's schlubs seem a definite step up. None of this bothers me when it's funny but I do find myself mentioning it a lot to those around me as the hot wife/girlfriend once again rolls her eyes at the ridiculous antics of her fat man-boob guy and then turns the hose on, locks him out of the house, or goes to stay with mother for a week. Sometimes the woman is replaced by a smart, witty, cool, long-suffering black or Asian male friend. The things people will put up with from white guys!

People like Wells and a few other that have commented on here, are the main reason why we have so many women out there who are bulimic and anorexic. The "REAL" world does not have that many BEAUTIFUL people in it. I slapped a man once for asking me why I was married to my husband (who weighed in at 300lbs.) he couldn't understand what I saw in him. After slapping him I told him that I saw the actual MAN he was and this jerk was no where near being a REAL man. He was the lame ass excuse for one. People who are like that make me absolutely sick to my stomach. Your narrow minded ass ways make you one of the ugliest human to walk the earth. Unfortunately, there are many of you. I suggest before you go off saying crap like Jason Segel is ugly and fat (which I think he's a good looking guy),that you take a really deeeeep look in the mirror and while you're at it take a look inside of yourself and ask what the hell makes you so damn pretty? I'm sure you'll get the answer when your damn mirror cracks. THE ANSWER: NOT A DAMN THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How dare Jeffrey Wells try to make me ashamed of my tit hairs! Where the hell are all these men with bald chests coming from anyway? I just wikipediaed it!

Or should we have equality and make movies where unattractive girls get hunky guys? I guess fair is fair.

At the same time, I have come to the realization that I have personal standards concerning obesity. I used to think that was shallow, but now I'm certain I can't ignore it. I guess it's different because I'm talking about real life and he's talking about movies. Still, Phillip Seymour Hoffman.... Maybe I do have limits. Wouldn't ruin the movie for me, but....

"He sounds like a Dixieland racist spouting off about miscegenation in the 1950s."

Yeah, he sounds exactly like that. I mean, isn't this essay just one long homo-erotic rant about repulsive Jewish men? What am I missing?

I have no problem with real men on the screen, but what about real women? If schlubs are scoring beautiful women in the movies and to a lesser extent real life, where are the romantic comedies about fat, out of shape women getting laid? If schlubs are going to rail against the review because it takes umbrage with "normal" looking guys, then where is the love for the out of shape women who most of these screen men would be "saddled" with in real life?

I'll accept out of shape slackers scoring with models and international beauties on the big screen when I start seeing slacker women with George Clooney and Brad Pitt. Hollywood movies like "Bridget Jones" do feature plus size women, but the characters are rarely slackers- Bridget might be a little heavier but she's not spending her days getting stoned and dreaming up celebrity porn sites.

The problem I have with a lot of these slacker comedies is not the average looks of their protagonists, but the fact the characters have no expectations or ambitions. Their lives are dull and dead focused on pop culture. I can believe an out of shape guy with a beautiful woman, but I have a much harder time believing a successful and ambitious (not to mention beautiful) woman would settle for a slacker.

Here's an excerpt from Mr. Wells' "Troy" review:

"Upon seeing Brad Pitt's wonderfully sculpted body, I almost choked on my Diet Sprite. With his golden locks flowing in Wolfgang Petersen's impeccably placed wind-machines, it was impossible for my eyes to avert themselves from his lovingly crafted loincloth. What sort of fabric is that, I wondered? But before I could figure that out, my eyes were blessed with the absolute picture of perfection: Hector's ass.

Obviously, Mr. Pitt and the other dude, Eric-something, put a lot of stock in choosing the right treadmill. I speculated as to whether either of them owned a BowFlex and then imagined the dude from Hulk, shirtless, sweating, grunting, as he stretched and toned his romantic leading man body. This guy was definitely eating his vegetables - I imagined him eating a cucumber while doing squats. It was like staring into a mirror, a very, very fogged up mirror... with tanned pecs, free of that pesky hair so common among the shapeless plebs. Fie upon T-shirts! Fie upon potato chips!!!"

With the discussion here, I just HAVE to share this link: http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com/

All Wells is establishing is that this movie has nothing to offer for the grotesquely superficial, self-aware, egotistical, repressed-homosexual (which is fine, but be yourself, man, you're in California) theatergoer. He's right, those of us who wouldn't go out of our way to let average looking suitors know they disgust us tend to outnumber those of us who would, and that's why we're seeing movies like Superbad succeeding.

I often wear long shorts, sandals, and open collared shirts. I also do most of my own housework, including woodwork, plumbing, and painting....so I need low-thread count t-shirts.

Since my wife appears to have no problem with this, and is still willing to have sex with me....a 30-yr old overweight schlubby white guy....I will take this morons opinions with a large grain of salt.

Looking into this guy's reviews, he seems more and more like one of those vapid ding dongs Bret Easton Ellis would write a book about.

When talking about "Juno", Wells talked about Ellen Page not being attractive enough for it to be believable that she got pregnant, even by someone like Michael Cera's character.

Yes, Kristin Bell is too attractive for those schlubs.
I'm a gay dude (in the PacNW, not West Hollywood) but I would go to the gym, wear designer duds, and even get a pedicure for that dame.
God, I can't wait for the day that she can carry a picture all by herself.

I just watched “Margot at the Wedding” over the weekend and noted the curious pairing of Jennifer Jason-Leigh’s Pauline with Jack Black’s Malcolm. I can tell that the filmmakers made obvious attempts to uglify Jason-Leigh, but, let’s face it, she’s still a beautiful woman…and Jack Black is the actor who put doughy-slackerboy on the map. Moreover, Margot, played by an un-uglified Nicole Kidman, was paired, at different points, with characters played by Ciaran Hinds and John Turtturo, who are quite a bit older and hardly specimans of stunning attractiveness. However, there is a key difference between the pairings in “Margot at the Wedding” and one of the Apatow comedies.

In “Margot”, pathos, parental abuse, and low self-esteem seem to inform Pauline and Margot’s choice of mates. Pauline reveals late in the film that she doesn’t consider herself attractive and it’s clear from the abuse she accepts from older sister Margot that she suffers from low self-esteem. So, Malcolm is a physically unspectacular specimen that nonetheless fits with her own sense of self-worth. Margot, moreover, appears to be suffering from a father-figure complex; implied through passing references to an unstable, abusive father. Enter Turturro and Hinds.

Contrast this with the Apatow comedies. Katherine Heigle’s Alison in “Knocked Up” is a model of beauty and confidence. And yet, we’re led to believe that she would run off and ka-noodle with Seth Rogen’s Ben simply because he said a few nice words to her at a bar. My personal experience on the bar scene would suggest that someone like Alison would already be surrounded by a phalanx of much more attractive men before someone of Ben’s caliber could even get her attention. To their credit, Heigle and Rogen show great chemistry, which is a big reason why the film works. Still, the whole thing feels like some attempt to act out a schlubby-male fantasy inspired by late-night basic cable viewing.

In essence, “Knocked Up” asks us to accept the differences in physical attractiveness between romantic pairs, while “Margot at the Wedding” asks us to understand them. Perhaps that’s part of the reason why the latter didn’t go down as easily, either with critics or with the public, and, perhaps, why I found the latter to be a more rewarding viewing experience.

This is a new one.....seems like if there was a realy point to be made it might be that we could use a few more cute but non-model looking heroines in our romanitic comdies. Out here in the real world there are a much bigger variety of hot women than the thin beauties you see on screen. I'd be more than happy to see the female equivalents of cute but imperfect normal looking dudes like the Apatow heroes.

Complaining about "unpedicured toenails" is only remotely valid if we imagined this kind of gender switch, but that's not the point being made. The point being made was that these dudes were too repulsive to get girls. Anyone who finds these guys repulsive should be told that getting out into the real world might be a good idea. We don't all go the spa.

Alrighty then.....

You know, I'm surprised how no one has mentioned that Jeffrey Wells doesn't exactly resemble a spring chicken, even in photos he has posted himself. I wonder what kind of delusional world one must live in when a transplanted Jersey boy can look in the mirror and see a mid-60s faux rockabilly hair-do, much-too-much suntanned leathery skin, and horrible shirts himself (http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/about/index.php), and see nothing but a bronzed god icon given the right to judge other average looking people. Maybe the criticism is simply that he hasn't been put in a movie yet, and if they're going to use regular, beat-up looking guys, then why shouldn't he be in the same league as these chumps?

These guys aren't too ugly for the girls. That's not the point. The point is that these guys are TOO POOR for these girls. That's what makes these movies so intellectually dishonest and makes them no more than Nora Ehpron movies with scatalogical humor.

And yet, Nathan Lee is out of work.

Yes, give me the old days when romantic comedies were toplined by such buffed-out hunks as Jimmy Stewart, William Powell, Spencer Tracy, Eddie Bracken, and Jack Lemmon. It's a shame the Production Code prevented us from revelling in their shaven pecs and rippling six-packs.

Wells isn't worth discussing.

That said, there really should be more films going the other way around: schlubby, traditionally-unattractive women ending up with Brad Pitt types. There are a lot more male actors who don't fit the "perfect" body image than female ones. There should be more, again, equality.

My problem with the "Apatow Schlub" in "Knocked Up" specifically, is not that I think Katharine Heigl is too attractive for Seth Rogen in some cosmic sense, but that I don't believe that their specific characters would ever think "Hey, let's start a relationship!" (I can just barely buy that she'd go home with him in the first place). For me, this shows a lack of imagination on the part of Apatow & Co.: why not make the her character an up-and-coming comedian/writer on some kind of MAD TV-type show (just as a for examople)? In other words, make her a charcter who (a) might be attracted to Rogen's character for his humor or laid-back attitude and (b) would be enough of an outsider not to be turned off by his lack of ambtion.

In movies like "The Disorderly Orderly" or "Billy Madison" or "Norbit", it doesn't matter that the schlub ends up with a woman who (realistically) seems way out of his league, because those movies don't really try to make sense on that level. At this point, I'd say that the schlub (or loser or whacko) with the babe has become such a convention of these kinds of Jerry Lewis-style comedies that in "Dumb & Dumber" the Farrelly Bros. get laughs by subverting the convention.

But "Knocked Up", in that it is trying to observe and comment upon a real cultural phenomenon (the extended adolescence of post-slacker dudes), should try to make sense on that level. It doesn't (for me, at least), so that's why I think it's only half successful (well, a little more than half: Leslie Mann and Kristen Wiig manage to pick up some of the slack from Heigl's under-realized character).

The trouble with most Apatow films -- and why I find them absurd -- isn't the male lead characters' looks, but that they have no ambition, and thus present a wish-fulfillment fantasy for a generation of young males infused with the intellectual sensibility of Bud Light commercials. In contrast, William Powell and Eddie Bracken invariably played characters with ambition.

I think it is sad that someone as ugly as Wells gets so much attention. He just says the most random and provocative thing that pops into his mind and *bam* we all respond. Holy Crap.

I only know that if I were a girl or gay or simply just me today and Wells came up to me in a bar, I would punch him in the teeth.

The point is sexism. Not discrimination against regular people. Discrimination against REGULAR WOMEN.

Women must be beautiful. Men can look average. This is the point of what's wrong with this scenario being played out over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.

Look at it from a woman's side. Even if a woman is successful, beautiful, sexy, and smart, the best she can expect out of life is an average Joe who puts no effort into his job, looks, or personality. But SHE better not be in ANY way average, or else she'll get nowhere in the movies.

Yippee, women, we've come so far.

Agree wholeheartedly with MP. I'd love to see a biopic about someone like George Eliot, who did not fit any standard of phyical attractiveness, but was nonetheless alluring in her own way. Of course, the producers, in their infinite wisdom, would probably cast Natalie Portman to play Eliot and outfit her with a fake prosethetic nose.

When I read Jim's post the first thing I had to think of was...man this dude (Wells) is so gay. I had to stop after someone posted Well's Troy review, though and post this. No straight man pays that much attention to fabric, Pitt's loin cloth or Bana's ass!! I am amazed that he gets paid to write 'film reviewes'.
I have no problem with the Apatow-syndrome of teaming up losers/Shclubs with hot women as long as it results in a funny movie. That's the whole point. The same goes for sitcoms like 'According to Jim' or 'Still Standing' or 'King of Queens' to name a few. I do think that sometimes the guys should be the ones offended from always being protrayed as fat idiots who need their wife's patience and smarts to get through life. You see the same thing in commercials. It's always an idiotic average man doing soemthing stupid and behold his lovely loving wife who tells him to get a plumber to do the job that he cannot do.

I have seen Jason Segel out a few times in hollywood, he's quite handsome.

The funny thing in this argument is how deeply the concept of body image goes in this country. We glorify the statues in skin and believe this to be some sort of standard when its all part of marketing campaigns to sell cologne or cars or t-shirts or fat free butter. Yet we can react to this, either defend or decry the notion of schlubby guys ending up with gorgeous women...but it happens, I've seen it myself. The existence of people who are willing to look past "flaws" and enjoy someone else's personality and character. Isn't this a mark of maturity? Are we saying, "Wait, don't you remember? We're Americans, we're concerned only with aesthetic not substance." And besides, there are far more ugly people than attractive people out there anyway, at least in Pennsylvania, so do what you like beautiful people. Eventually you'll have to settle. Muhwhwhahahahahahah!

Oh, and relating to the crisis in American filmmaking and criticism...it continues on and on ad infinitum.

myspace.com/51deep

As Jim pointed out, Apatow married Leslie Mann, who is quite an attractive woman. So, by comparison, does that make a Rogen-Heigl pairing so unfeasible? Vincent: The immaturity and lack of ambition is the point. Seth Rogen's character overcomes his immaturity and learns what it means to be a responsible adult.

Men have bigger brains. It's science.

I won't say that mp's comments are inaccurate but I do have to note that a great deal, if not most, of what women seem to be into these days (speaking, of course, of the mainstream) revolves around supermodels strutting around or fashionistas making catty comments about people's looks. Or drippy rom-edies in which cardboard cutouts with trendy facial hair fall into ridiculous situations that end in predictable luv. So some of the schlub trend may be a reaction to this. It's just another example in the polarization of everything, as in chick flicks getting more chicky and guy flicks getting more....guyey? So while criticisms may be valid I don't think it's as simple as sexism--more like a gender schism in taste. Also, I wonder where the audience was for Apatow's great "Freaks and Geeks" which was much more realistic and gave much more time to the female characters? I would be happy for him to try that route again but I'm not going to kick his schlub movies out of the theatre for eating hoagies.

I can't speak for Forgetting Sarah Marshall, but what so many people seem to overlook about Knocked Up is that this isn't really a movie about a man winning over a beautiful woman because through his overwhelming good looks and charm, it’s about a schlub impregnating a beautiful woman in a drunken one night stand. Upon waking up she's rather disgusted by Seth Rogen, and continues to be for large portions of the film. It’s supposed to be absurd, that's the joke.

This is not a new phenomenon either. John Belushi and Adam Sandler are not attractive people, yet they seemed constantly able to get movie star women. The difference is that Apatows movies actually acknowledge this look double standard and use it to humorous effect.

Furthermore I did an image search on Mr. Jeffery Wells, I wouldn't call him ugly, but he's not exactly the best looking person on the planet. Either way he’s clearly shown himself to be a hack writer.

Of course people complaining about the "Apatow Shlub" also overlook that this is where much of the humor originates in his movies! Half the jokes and pretty much all of the drama in Knocked up revolved around how Seth Rogen's character wasn't "good enough" for Catherine Heigl's character. If he was played by Brad Pitt there wouldn't have been a damn movie!

Oh and in the real world couples are rarely if ever matched up exactly. One's pretty much always better looking, more succesful or whatever than the other. Relationships are complicated and you never really know what these people are getting out of each other behind closed doors.

Catherine Heigl may seem to be out of Seth Rogen's league...but her character was also obviously a A-personality control freak type...in Rogen's character she gets a guy who she can dominate, will worship her like a goddess and help take her mind off the stresses she lays on herself. I don't think her character would *want* a guy as good looking, succesful and work oriented as she is. People are looking for other things in relationships than just looks and money.

Paraphrasing the show 'House,' sevens marry sevens, nines marry nines, fours marry fours. Maybe there’s some wiggle room if there’s enough money or if somebody got pregnant. Otherwise numbers don't lie.

I'd be happy to see a romantic comedy starring fugly men and women. Even if it does nothing for the acceptance of fugly people everywhere (which I am a lifelong member and totally indifferent about) it would at least provide 90 minutes of savory schadenfreude.

I don't see a huge problem (or even trend) in Judd's movies of the girls being way too hot for the guys. It is a huge problem in crappy family sitcoms that are all Beauty and the Beast on the set of Roseanne. The couples in Judd's movies are far more believable than say "According to Jim" "Yes, Dear" and the countless others.

in 40 year old Virgin I think Carrel and Keaner are on the same level as far as looks go. Beyond looks it is a virgin and a grandmother, personally I'd date a virgin before dating a grandparent.

In Knocked Up Allison got drunk and hooked up, the movie made it pretty clear she wouldn't have seen him again if not for the pregnancy. Also, I don't think I am the first person to suggest that without professional make-up and a push-up bra Katherine Heigel is pretty average looking. If you see candid shots of her walk around town (always smoking) she looks pretty shlubby and generic herself.

And in reality Kristen Bell is dating Dax Sheppard, so certainly I would believe she could play an actress who dates and dumps a looser.

Many people are asking about movies where less than conventionally attractive women get great looking guys. I think people aren't looking hard enough because they certainly exist.

"Last Holiday" paired Queen Latifa and LL Cool J, he is a far more attractive physical specimine than she is, even after all the make-up and fake hair.

Also the extremely underrated film "The Nines" pairs Ryan Reynolds and Melissa McCarthy (Suki from Gilmore Gilrs) and I really believed them as a couple in the 3rd segment of the film

"The point is sexism. Not discrimination against regular people. Discrimination against REGULAR WOMEN.

Women must be beautiful. Men can look average. This is the point of what's wrong with this scenario being played out over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.

Look at it from a woman's side. Even if a woman is successful, beautiful, sexy, and smart, the best she can expect out of life is an average Joe who puts no effort into his job, looks, or personality. But SHE better not be in ANY way average, or else she'll get nowhere in the movies."

Agreed....and I really do believe that guys would enjoy seeing more varities of hot ladies on the screen....even in formula comedies. It IS kinda weird that when a female lead doesn't fall into the "Katherine Hegel" mode it's a big deal....the strangest thing to me about "Bridget Jones's Diary" was that her weight was supposed to be a part of the story. Renee Zellweger was hardly what you would call hefty....she was about the same size as a lot of the women I know (who are considered quite attractive here in reality).

I don't know anybody who looks like Katherine Hegel, and I don't feel especially underpriveledged. The Hollywood Starlet type is but one mode of female attractiveness. The "body positive" stuff that gets trotted out in the media every now and then to make women feel better about themselves is nice and all, but it might be better just to actually notice that men are attracted to lots of different body types. We like curves and health. But we also like altheticism. Or sexy waifishness....hell, we like lots of stuff.

I think of Ricky Lake in "Hairspray," or Queen Lafifa in anything. Most of the guys I know would certaily go out with a vibrant, curvy girl like that.

Anyway.....as for the guys being unambitious slackers....yeah that is the more serious critique. My theory about that is twofold....I think that young writers and filmakers, hardworking as they are, go through periods of "loserdom" as they are establing themselves in the biz. I am a young person in the academic world, and so a prolonged adolescence is something I am intimately experienced with. Lots of young folk (but not just guys!) are going through this. 30 is the new 20.

The other reason is a combination of demographic targeting and Hollywood narrative convention. You can't have a coming of age story that appeals to the modern young dude with expendable income if you aren't going to make your hero into basically an ovegrown frat boy (or that's the conventional wisdom). Portraying growing up as getting a job and putting down the X-Box controller might be shallow, but it's damn sure relatable. Oddly, I think that John Belushi's character in "animal house" has become the way that Hollywood thinks guys see themselves.

This might be more insulting to guys than to women.

Uh... Jason Segel is a schlub? Seriously? It's not like he plays "the ugly one" on How I Met You Mother". Sure Seth Rogen is not leading man material, but if Jason Segel is too ugly... yikes.

E. Nassar,

That wasn't an actual review by Jeffrey Wells.

I think jeremy's post pretty much knocked it out of the park:

"Katherine Heigle’s Alison in “Knocked Up” is a model of beauty and confidence. And yet, we’re led to believe that she would run off and ka-noodle with Seth Rogen’s Ben simply because he said a few nice words to her at a bar...the whole thing feels like some attempt to act out a schlubby-male fantasy inspired by late-night basic cable viewing.

...“Knocked Up” asks us to accept the differences in physical attractiveness between romantic pairs, while “Margot at the Wedding” asks us to understand them."

Isn't it interesting that almost the only film where the inverse takes place - a less than average girl ends up with a hot guy - and is treated seriously is John Waters movie. How subversive! Although Hairspray is a comedy the relationship isn't played for laughs or shock value. You can actually see how it could happen as it often does in real life. All others such couplings are lesser comedies, and the coupling is played to some extent for laughs or wish fufillment.

To me the best example of a great film where the "ugly" girl gets the man is "The Truth about Cats and Dogs" where Janeane Garofalo beats out Uma Thurman for the heart of Ben Chaplin. Rikki Lake and Jennean Garofalo are "Hollywood Ugly" of course. This is the town that decided Kathy Bates was too ugly to reprise her role for the film version of "Frankie and Johnny," a play in which the averageness of the characters was the whole point.

I haven't seen the pic yet, but a shlub is defined by more than their attractiveness or lack there of. And I don't see Segel as a horribly unattractive person. Just a person. Was it wrong to cast Jack Lemmon as leading man in "he Apartment" or Walter Matthau in anything at all? (A goofy looking guy if there ever was one.)

Jim,

The one coupling that stands out in my mind though is Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft. Blast attractive women for looking beyond the outside layer and recognizing senses of humor and intelligence over a ripped bod and lack of humor (as it seems Wells has or as far as humor doesn't have. Who knows, maybe he is perfect?)

I would also like to take a moment and agree with Dane, but it goes beyond just couplings on sitcoms. Look at any television show and you'll see geeky guys in the guy leads and hot chicks in the gal leads. Oh, "Heroes" is a prime example. Comic book reading, video game playing, beer swilling "shlubs" are the current leading men. If only these things were popular back when i was in High School, I would have actually gotten laid! I make myself feel better by saying I continue to live ahead of the curve. In ten years the things I love now will be popular and I'll have moved on to something else. Right?

This guy sounds like he was deeply offended by the line in 40 Year Old Virgin:

"I didn't want to say anything ... but waxing your chest is, like, the gayest thing you can possibly do."

So he decided to use his awe-inspiring might as an online movie critic to crush Apatow's movie career. (How's that going man?) I only hope Judd, Seth, Jason and company can find a way to console themselves with their piles and piles of cash and recover from the heinous insult that they look - gasp - like normal guys.

i don't think katherine heigl is very attractive.

"Look at any television show and you'll see geeky guys in the guy leads and hot chicks in the gal leads. Oh, "Heroes" is a prime example. "

Um, what? Heroes is a show with a very diverse cast, but the vast majority of it are very good looking people. Peter, Nathan, Mohinder, DL and Adam are all very conventionally handsom leading man types. And Noah is very good looking man for somebody playing a father of teenagers.

Wake up guys, the rest of the world already had this discussion over two years ago re: Hurley and Libby on Lost.

thanks for opening our eyes, laura. i guess there's nothing more to be said about the subject then. but i must have missed the world forum where the rest of the world had the discussion. could you link us? we all have some catching up to do...

Has anyone seen Wells? I'd pick Segel over him in a gay bar any day.

I see this wasn't addressed here but Mila Kunis in real life is dating the Home Alone kid.

@andrew:

I think with "Heroes" he's using Hiro as the lead. And while he is a geek, it's arguable whether the lead is Hiro or Peter (who is a brooding, good looking man (no homo)). But you have to realize that

a.) Because Hiro is a geek

and, maybe more importantly,

b.) Because Hiro is Asian

He barely gets to have a love interest on screen. I don't think he ever kissed the waitress (who was cute but waify)in the first season, and she had to die, and he only kissed the "princess" in the second season once, and he had to leave her in the past. Meanwhile, Nathan and DL slept with Niki, and Peter got Simone, the Irish girl, and could have slept with Elle if he wanted to (and we're not 100% sure he didn't).

As a an advertising creative director and writer, the "Apatow" effect has been around for years. Way before Apatow. Most TV commercials (funny ones that is) always have a dweeb, doughy, or fat balding guy with a babe. It's the secret fantasy of the writer (many of us are doughy, dweeby, and marginally attractive if not flat out loser ugly). Okay, not all of us. But I certainly am. Though I when I cast a spot, I don't follow what I call the "Budweiser" cliche and cast a dweeb with a babe. I do try to cast an attractive woman, but a woman who isn't Mila Kunis or Carmen Electra. Pleeeeeze. Better the girl next door. But for the many beer swilling dweebs out there, the fanatasy babe appeals to them. It works. Everybody loves the doughy underdog. We can better relate to the hang-dog faced everyman than George Clooney. On the other hand, women want the fantasy of George. I wish I had a babe of a girlfriend. But that's all superficial. It's a lame ego booster for poor self image. Arm candy. And the reality of life is that most doughy dweebs will be pushed aside by a "babe" for a chance to be with Mr. Hunk. Unless you have money and celebrity. Sure, intelligence, humor and personality go a long way. And woman say they want that out of a guy. If only he had a face and body to match (add in image of Brad Pitt). We are all superficial. But in the fantasy world of comedy, the nerds win. If only that was true for me. But then again, I don't live in comedy land. I think.