Holy Holes

Putting aside the whole content of the video, did it make anyone else search for why a banana is 5-sided? Or at least did it recall pineapples and Fibonacci numbers?

I tried searching for the first, but found only links back to this video. I checked the wikipedia page for banana, and this proof was on there as well. I was hoping for something about the inherent stability of 5 sides, or something like that. Ah, well.

It's worth pointing out that wild bananas are so mishapen and full of seeds that they're practically inedible, and that the modern banana's shape and texture is due to thousands of years of selective breeding and cultivation. A well-made banana indeed.

Wow.

That's it, really: just wow.

Then there's the whole chicken-and-egg thing to consider: Were bananas created to fit our hands and mouths? Or were we designed to accommodate bananas? And what about the monkeys? They eat bananas in the wild -- without agriculture or transportation systems or grocery stores. So does that mean that they and we are similarly adapted to... never mind.

I want to echo Kevin K's comments and add that nearly every fruit we eat today is edible because of selective breeding--aka "genetic engineering."

I'm familiar with this fellow, the aptly-named Ray Comfort. He's written a number of books on Hollywood, including one in which he takes various quotes from interviews to try and determine whether or not a particular celebrity is going to heaven.

In addition, he writes gospel tracts which try to demonstrate why The Matrix, Star Wars, Titanic, and other films are actually Christian propaganda flicks.

As a young man, I was a Christian who questioned very little of what I heard about God from others. Ray Comfort came to my church as a guest speaker one day, and his rather illogical and disconcerting speech made me very cynical. It was then that I realized that everything we were told to believe should be checked against reason and logic... yet Mr. Comfort seemed to be promoting the idea of "Christian drones", people who did anything and everything they were told to do without thinking about it. Without realizing it, I had become one of those drones. I was raised to be one. Indeed, that seems to be the church's biggest fear (as it should be)... that people will start thinking for themselves about their faith.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Mr. Comfort's speech won a hugely favorable response from my church, everyone going on about how funny and clever he was, and how they were going to go buy his books at the gift table, and so on and so forth. However, his appearance did more harm (good) for me than good (harm). I am really quite concerned about the state of the church today... not only are many modern Christians unwilling to think for themselves in terms of what they believe about religion, but they are unwilling to think for themselves about anything else. Strangely enough, in recent times, protestants have slowly begun to associate conservative politics with Christianity, when in fact the two are so vastly at odds with each other that it would seem an impossible match to someone approaching things from a logical perspective.

Sorry to ramble a bit...

On a final note, here's Ray Comfort's warning about "Little Miss Sunshine". :-)

Thanks to Delta airlines, you can now sit back and enjoy pedophilia while you fly in comfort across America. While there are certain passengers who may appreciate it, I don't think I am alone in my convictions when it comes to the sexual exploitation of our children. I don't like it.

I have been living in the United States for over 18 years. I became a citizen ten years ago and I'm extremely proud to be an American. I am proud because Americans are a compassionate people. They love and care for their children, and this is never more evident as when they see them harmed by some sexually twisted pervert.

Recently Kirk Cameron, I, and my son-in-law Emeal Zwayne, were flying from Atlanta to Los Angeles. Halfway into the flight, Kirk suddenly looked up and said, "What's going on!" We looked up at the more than twenty screens to see what looked like a nine-year-old child sexually gyrating and stripping in front of an adult audience. As we watched in horror, a few of the adults in her audience stood to their feet and began to clap to the music, obviously encouraging her to strip further, which she gladly did.

The airline kindly warned that the movie contained "adult situations, strong language and violence," and reviews said that it was "hilariously funny." No doubt the film's makers had a reason for their juvenile stripping scene, but what we were looking at wasn't a normal adult situation, nor was it funny. This was the promotion of pedophilia in the public arena.

We looked at each other and asked "How could this be happening?" This wasn't some in-house meeting of NAMBLA where perverts were getting off on seeing a young child take her clothes off in the privacy of their own clubhouse. This wasn't in some dirty little back room in Downtown Los Angeles. This was in front of mothers and fathers and their children on a domestic flight on Delta airlines.

What sort of twisted Hollywood scumbag is allowed to get this trash on a public airline?

The three of us immediately protested to a flight attendant. She smiled and gave her standard response, "You don't have to watch it. Just get on line on the Delta website and register a complaint." She was too busy caring for the needs of the passengers to see the movie.

One of the other passengers heard our protests and began to say that he actually enjoyed the film. Personally, I would like to know the names and addresses of anyone who enjoys watching little kids take their clothes off in public. I would like to warn the families in their area.

If someone is caught with this trash on his personal computer, he will find himself with a stiff prison term, but if he enjoys it on Delta, then that's his right.

I feel angry when our flag is burned, but if it's part of America's freedom, I can live with it. But if our freedom has its bounds, let it be at the harm of our children. Let's not let those who are our enemies see how we treat our children. If we can't agree on gay rights, prayer in schools, the war in Iraq, let's at least agree on this issue.

I have been on more than 1900 flights and I have looked away from adult entertainment many of times, but I will not close my eyes with this issue. I will open my mouth and do all I can to shame Delta for what they have done. What do I want from them? I want a very public apology. I want them and all the airlines to clean up their dirty little acts. The airlines outlawed smoking on their planes because enough passengers complained that they didn't want other people's poison in their faces. Liberty has its bounds. So if enough people protest about pedophilia flights maybe the airlines will ban their poison, and even create a NAMBLA room in the terminal so that they won't lose their business.

I like Delta's flight attendants. They are friendly. I like their pilots. They are good at what they do. I even like their food, and after the horror of 911, I want them to get on their feet financially, so I have a suggestion. I would like them to know that "Fly Delta, the pedophilia airline" isn't good for public relations.

And monkeys have no opposable thumbs so doesn't the fact that they can eat a banana without it fitting perfectly in their hand prove that their is no special design to it? And, by the way, why would the magical leprechaun create only one food source out of millions that is designed for the human hand? If this proves he exists then why are not cows similarly shaped with their prime rib sections easily peelable and pre-cooked medium rare with sauteed mushrooms on top? So the god guy goes all out on the banana and then, being spent, just doesn't have the energy to perfect the design of every other food source on Earth.

Kirk and Ray. Wow. The gravitational well sucking the intellect out of their heads must be truly awe-inspiring.

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the banana is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

- from The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy by Douglas Adams

Anyone ever see Studio 60? They had a sketch on their faux-SNL called "Crazy Christians." They felt very liberal, and then they got blasted about it from religious groups (in the show). Then the writers got very self-righteous, as did the show.

That's what killed Studio 60: it was so pretentious.

I was just reminded of that for some reason.

Jim,

Do we know what this simple test is that DEFINITIVELY proves what happens when we die? Cause I'd like to know what to pack...

I can't bring myself to look at the website, so I don't know if I have to pay a flat fee to find out or do they have an installment plan?

"It's the powerful principle of bypassing the intellect, the place of argument, and speaking directly to the conscience, the place of the knowledge of right and wrong. It makes the gospel make sense to the Unsaved. It's simple, it's effective, it's what Jesus did."

I just had to see that again...It's brilliant. I would've sworn that was actually written by the Pythons themselves. Are we sure this isn't a satirical web site?

This is called "comparative thinking". All of us do this naturally and it leads to errors. Christians do it all the time when they try to prove the Bible is true.

The key to determining truth is "contrastive thinking"...which is what we do to each other naturally...and are encouraged to do here.

Jim, just another reason why I enjoy your site.

Hey Kirk and Ray,

Stay off my side.

-Brock

I had seen that atheist's nightmare clip before, and it is emblematic of the scientific-method-on-its-head approach: rather than discovering evidence, and devising a hypothesis then testing the hypothesis with an experiment, just start with God's truth, and look for evidence that supports it: a five-sided banana - ipso facto. (Unfortunately, some science is also conducted in this manner.)

Much more disturbing to me is what I saw in the movie "Jesus Camp", when the subject of global warming came up. I was surprised to find that global warming does not fit the Christian home school curriculum. Let's consider why. Because God made the earth for man to exploit, and suggesting a poor outcome is anti-God? Because we are supposed to use up the earth, before we move on to the next world (via Rapture)? Because the Christian home school movement is also a Republican movement?

No sign of a stewardship-of-the-planet idea, which can be as religious or as secular as you want to make it.

But you have to admit, that banana guy was definitely in the moment.

I have a hard time taking it seriously. It all seems like a tongue-in-cheek joke. But it makes you think, doesn't it? I mean, what's it's all about? Beats me.

Why are we here? What's life all about?
Is God really real, or is there some doubt?
Well, tonight, we're going to sort it all out,
For, tonight, it's The Meaning of Life.

What's the point of all this hoax?
Is it the chicken and the egg time? Are we just yolks?
Or, perhaps, we're just one of God's little jokes.
Well ça, c'est le Meaning of Life.

Is life just a game where we make up the rules
While we're searching for something to say?
Or are we just simply spiralling coils
Of self-replicating DNA? (Nay-nay-nay nay-nay-nay nay-nay-nay nay-nay-nay.)

In this life, what is our fate?
Is there Heaven and Hell? Do we reincarnate?
Is mankind evolving, or is it too late?
Well, tonight, here's The Meaning of Life.

For millions, this life is a sad vale of tears,
Sitting 'round with really nothing to say,
While the scientists say we're just simply spiralling coils
Of self-replicating DNA. (Nay-nay-nay nay-nay-nay nay-nay-nay nay-nay-nay.)

So, just why, why are we here?
And just what, what, what, what do we fear?
Well ce soir, for a change, it will all be made clear,
For this is The Meaning of Life. C'est le sens de la vie!
This is The Meaning of Life.

Minor correction: Ray Comfort is a Kiwi (i.e. from New Zealand), not an Aussie.

Just a reminder: there are proud, faithful, and intelligent Christians out who would love more than anything than to disassociate themselves with this cheap propoganda. Please don't write all of us off with these nitwits just yet.

Jay: I quite deliberately did not use the word "Christian" in this post (although they did, and I quoted it). I don't think of these guys as "Christians." They're just lunatics. Whatever their religious beliefs are, their "claims" are absurd.

I would never write anyone off, Jay, and I'm guessing there are many nitwit-spotting Christians out there but as someone who was brought up in, but never bought into, the evangelical movement, I see way too many cases of nitwit coddling out of defensiveness. My friends and I could laugh at the ridiculous antics of TV preachers--even look at each other drop-jawed over some wild statement from our own pulpit but as soon as criticism came from outside it was circle the wagons. This sort of response is common everywhere but it particularly mystifies me when the embattled group claims 90% of the population (or some such astronomical figure). With so little competition and such a large pool of possible spokespeople why aren't more nitwits called to account from the inside? They can, of course, be forgiven later and maybe made greeters or something.

Clark,

That's quite a story. I wonder if it would have made a difference to Kirk and Ray if they understood the whole context of that scene and that the film was viciously satirizing the sexualization of children by these pageants. The whole point was that the chaste "striptease" was downright wholesome when compared to the pageant-sanctioned "bathing suit" competition in which single-digit-aged girls wearing skimpy, snug bathing suits strut and pose as if their doing a Maxim photo shoot. And most importanly, they were in a much further state of undress than little Abigail Breslin's stripping down to a t-shirt and a pair of baggy shorts.

It's exactly like when professional whinypants, L. Brent Bozell, went on a huge diatribe about the "Stupid Spoiled Whore" episode of South Park, complaining about the vulgar sexual content, all the while completely overlooking that the episode is making a conservative viewpoint about today's young girls being perverted by these trashy role models. I would imagine that he wouldn't last ten minutes through Bad Lieutenant before turning it off in disgust, completely missing that it's a moral tale that espouses Christian attributes such as forgiveness and redemption.

And that's the main problem with the Ray Comforts, the Kirk Camerons and the L. Brent Bozells of the world, is that they don't bother to look past their own personal outrage. Ray's excruciatingly wrongheaded assumption was that they audience was laughing and applauding at exactly what appalled him. The image of a young girl taking her clothes off. I wonder if he had looked up at the screen a bit earlier during the movie and saw the swimsuit scene, would he have objected to that? Or would he have responded the same way the people who ran the pageant, who in their own minds justified parading half-naked kiddies in front of an ogling audience, because after all, little girls roam around on the beach or at the swimming pool all the time, so they saw nothing wrong about that in this context. But for a girl to shake her hips to "Superfreak" to take her clothes off, nevermind that the ultimate state of undress would have been offensive to nobody if she had just walked out on the stage like that, was a scandal and an outrage.

Okay, perhaps this is getting a bit off topic. But it's an interesting observation all the same. Most telling was his desire to play Big Brother and wish that he could contact the neighbors of those "pedophiles". Defendents of spying and surveillance love to tell us that if we are doing nothing wrong, then we have nothing to fear. And then you find out what their personal definition of "wrong" is.

Jim,
No offense was taken, and I certainly appreciate that efforts you made in wording your post. It's just in discussions like this it's easy to start using the label of a large group of people (not just Christians) more and more as a blanket term which, as Dane pointed out, will cause the "circle the wagons" response.

I just wanted to throw my voice in to represent Christianity that, yeah, some of us do agree ... those guys are lunatics.

That and hopefully preempt that offended defensive comment from someone a little oversenstive on the subject, and keep the discussion on a more productive note.

So, like I said, just a reminder ... maybe I should've worded it "a friendly reminder". Whatever, you get my drift. ;)

I saw that video when a friend recommended it to me a year or so ago. He watched that stuff (ironically) religiosly just to savor the crazy stuff they would say.

When I first saw it, I was gullible and weak minded to buy into it for about ten seconds. Fortunately, I know I'm weak minded and gullible. Then I thought of apples, coconuts, pineapples, plantains, macadamia nuts, peaches, cherries, watermelons (anything with seeds or a pit), cranberries, banana peels...

I bet those guys are hungry from eating nothing but God-given bananas.

All hail potassium!

funny, i've always thought the banana was the perfect example for this kind of argument.

You know what's really amazing? How glasses fit right on our heads, with the clear parts over the eyes so we can see through them and the bridge right over our noses so they can rest there, and the curvy parts behind the ears to help hold them on! The world is truly made in our image.

If only someone would invent a device that would keep the glasses from sliding to the end of our noses. That person would become rich beyond his imagination.

Something else has just occurred to me about bananas. They're proof of God's feminism. All our years of religious chauvinism have been wrong. Clearly God intended for women to be happy. He created this perfectly shaped fruit so that no woman, no matter how homely she may be, should go unsatisfied. What's more, he made it easy to dispose of the evidence.

And let us not forget the comic possibilities presented by the peel! Proof that God has a sense of humor!

Actually, monkeys do have opposable thumbs, earlier commenter. That video actually does wonders for the "humans evolved from apes" argument.

Being somewhat morbidly inclined, I am a huge fan of Kirk and Ray. You couldn't possibly come up with a better parody of misguided apologetics and ham fisted evangelism than these two. If you actually watch their shows in their entirety (youtube's got plenty), you'll be struck by the fact that Ray's usual tactic is to find someone who considers him/herself to be a beliver but who doesn't really know a whole bunch about the Bible, then he will lay a big guilt trip on them if they don't have their theology straight and "minister" to them, essentially converting Christians to Christianity.

The troubling thing about this is that it really demonstrates what's so dangerous about fundamentalism. The wishy-washy sentimentalists who give lip service to God and the ten commandements, etc., but who are essentially harmless, are ripe for the picking for fundamentalist nutjobs. I've got no issue with informed, skeptical people who chose to have faith or to participate in religion, but I think that fundamentalism is inherently dangerous. Kirk and Ray are well meaning and harmless, but Jerry Falwell, to give a timely example, wasn't. The fact that wishy-washy credulous folks are so vulnerable to the fundamentalist guilt trip is disturbing. The fact that there are so many of these people out there (I'd point to the huge percentage of Americans who claim to believe in God. . . how many of them really know anything about any theological tradition at all?) is alarming. These ar the folks that need to hear atheist propogandists like Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, or Richard Dawkins. This is not to say I want them all to be atheists (who cares?), but at least they'll regare religious tradition as something that should be debated and not just felt.

I don't care if everybody becomes an atheist (I really, really don't care. . . we're not an evangelical movement), but I don't like the thought of so many people being so vulnerable to fundamentalist idiots. You want faith, it should be a choice, and you should always take that little skeptical devil on your shoulder seriously. The "circumvention of reason" that Kirk and Ray want is something that too many of us really ARE vulnerable to, and this is exactly why Americans are such a disturbing lot of folks to me.

Oops! I decided too fast! Now I'm a Jamist!

I'm away for a week and there are simple things over looked. Of course pitted fruits denounce the idea of evolution with the simple fact that they exist. God doesn't want us to be gluttonous, but to savor every bite. Have you ever tried biting straight through a peach...chip a tooth! You have to think about it, consider where the teeth will go. The parable of the peach teaches us that we must consider before biting down, we must be patient in life as we are when eating around the ridges edges of that giant pit.

Weeeeeee!

For some reason this reminds me of a sevententh century poetry class I took one time. We were talkng about metaphysical poetry and we were assigned to come up with one religious "conceipt" as a fun little excersize in figuring out John Donne's method. I explained how a napkin despenser was great metaphor for salvation, because we get more and more chances to wipe the sin from our noses. . . until one day the napkins run out (mortality!). So it's a symbol of grace and a momento mori.

I'm now thinking of how the napkins are kinda like a veil and like the shroud of Turin and . . . . I'm gonna knock this off before this becomes even more of a sub-Joycean excersize in morbidity than it already is. Have a nice day.

Somehow, somewhere, this post is relevant to the bannana thing. . . .

Come to think of it, the gun is also perfectly shaped for the hand. Guess God wants us to apply unnatural selection to each other. Just saying...

I'm not leaning one way or the other on this debate. However, I think it's funny that no one ever considers the fact that maybe God created us through evolution. Any takers?