An even dumberer list

The Faculty? Are they high?

That makes me want to break something important to me.

The inherent problem of such lists in British papers once again rears its ugly head. It's not that some of the choices are ridiculous (and they are) - it's the smug, impersonal and anodyne write-ups that make me want to introduce my knuckles to my computer screen. Take this blurd on Dogville, for example:

The wind of change that Dogme ushered in emerged as full-blown Brechtian alienation in Dogville, a schematic floorplan standing in for the Colorado town in which Nicole Kidman's harried Grace takes refuge. Von Trier prods and provokes with his sententious view of America, but this presiding archness, against the bare stage, produces super-invigorating drama.

Oh, brother.

Glad to see "Devil in a Blue Dress" on there, very underrated, and "Dazed and Confused" can't be praised enough, but what the eff kind of list has "The Faculty" and "Ghost" on it? Not to mention "Dirty Dancing" and "Dodgeball". Also I have to disagree about "Crash", I thought it was pretty stupid and mostly pointless, and "Dead Ringers" was only saved by how unbelievably good Jeremy Irons was in both parts. And are Roger Ebert and I the only people in the world who realize how ridiculously brilliant "Dark City" is?

The morning after...

I do have to give them some props for broadening their scope, which allows them to pick some, shall we say, untraditional movies to fill out their list. Keeps things a little fresh, and helps eliminates the stodginess problem of the AFI's lists, where you basically know at least 50 of the movies that'll be on there before you even see it... it's all just a matter of placement.

Well it's not supposed to be a list of good movies. Just movies that have influenced pop culture. I'd say "Clerks" applies...

You really hold Amelie in the same contempt as you do Ace Ventura, American Pie, and Dumb and Dumber?

Granted, the list is useless and should be treated as such, but while you might not care for Amelie, it is by no means as bad as the afformentioned.

But don't forget, they're looking at the variety of movies as much as the quality. The cinematic palate is incredibly wide, and to not acknowledge these films would be unfair.

Granted, I hated Gummo and have no intention of ever watching it again, but I think its mention in this list should be accorded understanding and respect.

1000 is a lot. There are bound to be a few stinkers in there. Besides, "films to see" could mean anything. I insist on showing the Kurt Thomas actioner "Gymkata" to everyone who is willing to endure it, just to show them the absolute depths that the Hollywood system is capable of sinking to. If I were to put together a list of 1000 movies to see before you die, I'd certainly list Gymkata as one of them, purely because it's so putrid. Or Plan 9 From Outer Space, for that matter. Frankly I'll be surprised if Plan 9 isn't on The Guardian's list.

If good cannot exist without evil, then it must follow that great movies cannot exist without terrible ones. Maybe it'd be for the best if there was a canon of "Must-see bad movies" alongside the great ones, simply for the sake of context.

...the faculty...not only one of the least important but also least interesting horror films of all time...maybe it's because Jon Stewart is in it...and yes Ken, they probably are high.

But any list that has Andrei Rublev, Akira and Audition can't be all bad. At least there isn't the snobbish tom-foolery that goes into making the list of "the greatest" films of forever and still yet to come put together by people who "know" what makes a great film (even though most of them have never done so or will never attempt to make a film in their lives.)

I recently caught "Ace Ventura: Pet Detective" on television and was surprised by (how do I put this?) how classical it seemed, given that upon its release it was decried by the critical community as a new low. It does have some hilarious sequences and moments, and Carrey's characterization just might make it essential viewing.

But on the list of 1000 movies? Um...no. By the way, isn't this just a rip-off of the excellent book "1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die?". That's a great compilation of films from the silent era to present day. I'm already making it my task to see every film on that list.

Geez, I even liked The Faculty and I wouldn't put it on the list....

If they are going to go with a Jon Stewart movie, then don't take The Faculty--take Half Baked.

What's wrong with Amelie?

I hate Clerks too, but for the moment Kevin Smith has enough fan boys to merit it being on the list. The 1000 list (of which there are several) that I respond to is the Theyshootpictures.com 1000 which takes into account all the lists and critic's top ten through the ages.

What's wrong with "Dumb and Dumber?" Sure, it's no "Fanny & Alexander" or "Blue Velvet," and it's certainly not a comedy like "This is Spinal Tap," but it still makes me laugh.

Besides, if a top 1000 list had only those "canon" films, would there really be any context of WHY they're so great without the stinkers to compare them to?

Phillip: It doesn't take a filmmaker to know when a movie sucks.

I was actually surprised at how many interesting choices they were able to fit into this list. Freeing it from the "greatest" label really opens it up a bit, I think.

Also, if they're going to put a Kevin Smith film on there, it should be Chasing Amy. Now that's a good little film.

"Frat" boy movie "Clerks"?

Subjective opinions of the humor aside, the movie came from the nerd side of the cafeteria, was appreciated and followed by a cult of the nerd side of the cafeteria, includes an extended cameo by a clear fratboy type as a *rival* to the main character...

I'm sorry, but this is purely, objectively, a total failure of labelling. Low-brow, middle-brow, whatever. But you've placed this one in the wrong side of the college culture wars...

Nick: You're right, they didn't say "good." They said "essential." Of course, my response is subjective (so are their committee members' selections), and their choices certainly represent a "variety." But "those that best sum up the dazzling achievement and variety of the movies"? I'm just trying to figure out what's "dazzling" about some of them.

Milton: True, "Clerks" refers to a comic-book geek milieu, but the sense of humor is pure frat boy. (So is "Chasing Amy," though it's a marginally better movie.) It's made for fratties who fancy themselves future "indie filmmakers." That's part of what I hate about it: It's a badly made (as Kevin Smith fully admits) bully movie tricked out as a nerd/outcast movie.

Kevin K: "Gymkata" is just amazing, isn't it? I had to review it for the Seattle Times when it first came out. I was dumbstruck -- and awestruck -- by the spectacle. But I laughed a lot. I guess that should be on the list, too. "Variety," you know...

As for "Amelie": Isn't it kind of an Olson Twins movie in French?

And re: "Dumb and Dumber," "Ace Ventura," "American Pie," et al.: I just said (in the headline) that there were some dumb movies on this list. I do believe these movies are based on the premise that they're dumb. That's the point, no?

OK, as far as Top 1000 lists go, it's safe to say that Jonathan Rosenbaum's canon does a whole lot more to "sum up the dazzling achievement and variety of the movies" than this one. But this list is also a damn sight better than the wretched and embarrassing AFI list, and not just because it's got an extra 900 and isn't restricted to American (and a few British) films. Although any list that contains "American Beauty" is almost automatically rendered invalid.

Like all such lists, it is pitifully short of documentaries. I didn't bother to look too closely, but after clicking on a few letters, the only ones I could find was "Fahrenheit 9/11" (OK choice) and "American Movie" (nice choice).

I'm glad "Hairspray" made it, and certainly hope that "Pink Flamingos" does.

Kevin: No it doesn't take a filmmaker to know when something sucks, but more often than not someone who's actually made a film, even if it's a five minute student piece that blows hard, will have a stronger appreciation and understanding as to what went into making said movie suck.

Jim: Olson Twins movie in French...you may burn for that one.

If no one has noticed I'll point out that the image they have chosen to represent "Dumb and Dumber" is actually from the lesser sequel "Dumb and Dumberer" or whatever the heck it was called (I never took the time to see it.)

Ahhh, Gymkata! A film that truly dominates its category (uneven parallel martial arts). I also fondly remember Spielberg's tribute to the film in his Jurassic Park sequel, when Jeff Goldblum's (color-blind casting or backstory on the cutting room floor?) daughter takes out a velociraptor (or something) using that ancient art.

If Amelie is an Olson Twins movie in French, then it is at least the greatest Olson twins movie ever made. And Audrey Tautou is a billion times more beautiful than the twins put together.

I have found that a good way to find the usefulness of a critic or a list such as this is to see what it has to say about the films of Yasujiro Ozu. Not that he is necessarily the greatest director in history (though I say that only because I don't believe there is a single greatest director), but somehow, more than any other director, whether or not he is acknowledged or understood by a critic/list indicates more about the value of the critic/list than any other director. On the basis of this, I can safely write off Peter Travers for only including Tokyo Story in his book of essential DVDs when Early Summer, Good Morning, and Floating Weeds were all available, and by the fact that I could tell from his explanation that he only put that one movie on there because he was obligated to.

Anyway, thus far, there are no Ozu movies on the list that I saw. No Autumn Afternoon, Early Spring, Early Summer, End of Summer, Equinox Flower, Floating Weeds, Flavor of Green Tea Over Rice, Good Morning, I Was Born But..., Late Autumn, or Late Spring. Surely every one of those is worthy of inclusion on the 1000 movies to see before you die.

If this was top 10 or even top 100 I could see complaining, but this is a *top 1000* list. Not every movie on the list is going to be a life moving experience. Sorry, some mainstream movies are going to sneak in there as much as it pains you. There's only so much snobbery most people can stomach.

"Before Sunrise
(Richard Linklater, 1995)
Two beautiful American strangers meet on a Eurorail train...."

Did they not see this movie? How about a little editing/fact checking? As I recall, Julie Delpy isn't all that American. Like, not at all. Nor was her character.

Dear movie snobs: It's not 1,000 best movies, it's most essential. Dirty Dancing might not have won any Oscars, but where would we be without it? Baby might still be in a corner!