Jumpy: a scene from "The Departed."
A few notes (and I took lots!) on seeing Martin Scorsese's "The Departed" for a second time:
I actually enjoyed the film more the next time around, and I think the usual forces are at work here: 1) since I already knew where it was going and how it was going to get there, I wasn't bothered so much by my memories of "Infernal Affairs" and how many sequences, performances and techniques I thought were more effective in the earlier movie; and 2) some of the rough spots often seem to smooth out a little once you've been over them before. I've always found this to be true with movies, and maybe even more so with music: the irritating things that stick out the first time don't seem quite as glaring with repeated exposure, if only because you already know they're there, and that makes them easier to accept, get past (and, perhaps, downplay).
Even Jack Nicholson's meretricious Jack-off performance seemed slightly less awkward, a little more nuanced (in spots) the second time. But I still think it's the movie's most conspicuously damaging flaw.
I took note of a couple scenes I thought were cut together in discontinuous ways that were particularly distracting and harmful to the performances. The first is in the seafood restaurant (with the nun and the priests sitting by the window). It's mostly a conversation between Frank (Nicholson) and Billy (Leonardo DiCaprio), intercutting two shots from different angles, one favoring Frank on the left and the other favoring Billy on the right. With both actors' faces fully visible in both angles (they're seated side by side), the challenges of matching shots is doubly difficult. DiCaprio changes expression or shifts the direction of his gaze -- sometimes dramatically -- from cut to cut.
Something similar happens in the scene in the bar between Frank and Billy, where Frank makes his rat face and lights the drawing on fire. Here, most of the discontinuity is in Nicholson's performance -- possibly because he reportedly improvised a lot of business for this scene. I suppose you could make an argument that the jumps and shifts space and demeanor indicate that Frank is coming apart at the seams (or splices).
But, again, it's a trade-off. Scorsese may have chosen these takes because he liked what the actors were doing in each of them and wanted those moments in his film. On the other hand, because the footage doesn't cut together so smoothly, some of us were thrown out of the picture by these jarring cuts.
The two scenes I found the most thoroughly enjoyable, aside from every minute Mark Wahlberg or Alec Baldwin were on screen, were (like those characters) newly created for "The Departed" and not in "Internal Affairs." The first is the charming encounter in the elevator between Colin (Matt Damon) and Madolyn (Vera Farmiga), where they spar and she gives him her card. The second is the one in Madolyn's office between her and Billy, as they try to out-psych each other.
Anybody else see things a bit differently upon watching "The Departed" for a second time? Got specific examples of what you thought worked or didn't work? This "Departed" topic (see below) and its follow-up have received the most comments of any postings in the brief life of Scanners!
Well, I admit that my feelings toward THE DEPARTED were tainted by the fact that I saw INFERNAL AFFAIRS for the first time earlier this year. So maybe I'll see the Scorsese picture again at some point. At any rate, I'm really surprised at how well it's holding up at the box office--I thought the ending would generate negative word of mouth.
2) some of the rough spots often seem to smooth out a little once you've been over them before. I've always found this to be true with movies, and maybe even more so with music [...]
I agree that this is true of movies in general and of The Departed in particular. And, interestingly, I think that it's true of the music in The Departed. I found some of the transitions jarring where Scorsese killed the music at a cut the first time around. The second time I only noted one instance where this bothered me: It's the scene where Costigan discovers that Costello is an F.B.I. informant, which cuts to (I think) the "father-son chat" scene between Costigan and Queenan. The song ("Comfortably Numb," right?) is very loud, but it just stops on the cut. I suppose there's an argument to made that it's disorienting like Costigan is disoriented, but still...
I wanted to chime in on The Departed, even though I only saw it once.
I loved the movie, thought it was the best time I had at the movies in years. I never saw Infernal Affairs, which helped me appreciate the movie on its own terms.
I thought it had all the energy and momentum of Scorcese's best work. I'm not saying it's on par with Goodfellas (just voted the #1 American film of the last 25 years at No More Marriages- I concur), but it's close.
With regard to the criticism about continuity gaffes, they didn't bother me in the slightest.
I thought Jack being a bit over the top fit his charachter. People used to call Pacino's performance in Scarface over the top- not so much anymore.
The movie may not resonate with some as deeply as say, Goodfellas, or Raging Bull, or Casino. But I'm not sure that's what he was going for. This was a MOVIE, not a "film". It was all about visceral thrills and entertaining storytelling, less about any life lessons.
If he wanted to make the movie deeper, he might have provided opening voiceovers for the Damon and DiCaprio charachters, giving them some backstory and motivation. By only using Jack's voiceover, the audience is misled into thinking he's the protagonist, when it's really Leo's story. But again (spoiler), that might have made Leo's death hurt TOO much. We're only supposed to like these guys to a certain point, and that's why there is some laughter when Damon kills his "partner" who just killed Leo. These are bad, bad men, and boy am I glad I'm not one of them.
The best example of this TONE of detachment is when Alec Baldwin is talking about the computer chips. "I don't know what they are, you don't know what they are, who gives a f..." He's practically saying, "This is a MacGuffin". This tone is modulated perfectly throughout the film, and is the main reason I thought it worked so well.
I was a fan of the movie the first time around, and my admiration grew on the second viewing. I did not notice any continuity gaffes the first time, and still didn't notice any the second time around, after having read that they existed here. I also paid closer attention to Nicholson. He didn't bother me at all in the first viewing, and the second time around I noticed something -- characters mention here and there along the way, especially toward the end, that Costello is "losing it." And in the beginning Costello, while colorful, basically remains sane. As the film progresses, his behavior -- seen as Jackisms by some -- grows progressively more eccentric and outlandish, which I think fits his character evolution perfectly.
A few other things. The dialogue is sharp. Really sharp. "Filler" dialogue you'd see in most crime thrillers, the stuff thrown in to round out scenes and attach some shorthand version of humanizing the characters, is replaced in The Departed with sharp insights that reveal the intelligence of the characters, and build their personalities all the way up until the end.
The presence of sex also struck me as something a little different for Scorsese, at least as far as his crime movies go. I'm thinking specifically of Goodfellas, which while mentioning wives and mistresses in passing, is basically sexless. This is particularly striking given how much The Sopranos owes to that film, and how lusty it is in comparison. The chemistry of the shrink with both Costigan and Sullivan feels very real, right up to and including the (brief) sex scene between the former two. I have no idea why this feels relevant to me, but it does. If you have any insight on that, by all means tell me.
It seems like you caught up to where I was at with my feelings towards the movie. Probably because I hadn't seen "IA" for a good year or so before seeing this one.
"At any rate, I'm really surprised at how well it's holding up at the box office--I thought the ending would generate negative word of mouth."
It seemed nearly everyone in the theatre I watched it in loved the ending. Most people I've spoken to (most of whom are casual film fans and haven't seen the original it should be mentioned) point to the ending 10 - 15 minutes as being their favourite part of the film. If anything the ending is doing the opposite of creating negative word of mouth.
There's a part of the ending that I picked up on that I'm not sure if many others did. Most people see the rat next to the State House and automatically see the bad pun there. I saw that and immediately thought of the scene where Costello interrogates Billy about the rat in his crew. At the beginning of that scene, Costello is working on a drawing, which features a couple of rats around the State House, just like we see at the end. I saw the ending as a Hitchcockian touch, to let us all know that there was somebody in control, and that this somebody is Frank Costello. This also connects to Costello's voiceover at the beginning, with him in control.
Now, I'm not saying that it is specifically Costello in control. But there is some force out there, and it's an evil one, controlling our movements.
Dan E.,
I caught that too. That it had to do with the picture Frank was drawing, but that was one of the only moments that took me out of the picture (which I guess is fine since it happened right at the end). It was a little too pointlessly wink-wink for my taste. And maybe not controlling, but constantly watching, knowing everything we do. Though I still don't see why it's a pun.
I didn't see that there was this other section, for 2nd viewings.
The first time through, I thought the Departed dragged terribly in the second half. The second time, I realized it was my fave film so far this year.
I love the interplay of the editing and the music. Any scenes that had "Gimme Shelter" or the Dropkick Murphys playing were truly masterful. And the back-and-forth cutting between Leo and Damon's upbringing and training provided the most marvelous moments in the movie.
The second time around, I also came to care much more about all of the characters. In particular, Sheen's death was tragicomic in a horrifying way. It was obviously meant to be devastating to DiCaprio's character and, yet, the way Sheen's blood splattered all over him robbed that death of any dignity. Which was surely the point, that this man died for nothing.
And I think that's the greatest theme of the film, that every death in the film, be it for the noble purpose upholding the law or to maintain the "honor among thieves" pseudo-nobility was ultimately pointless.
I don't like Billy Joelparticularly, but I found myself wishing that "Only the Good Die Young" had played over the closing credits.
I also enjoyed the ending much more the second time and felt that it tied the whole film up as being truly about Nicholson's character more than anyone else...he was the prime mover for all the events of the film and effected every character personally...he was, literally, a force of nature.
And Nicholson's speech at the beginning interspersed with the footage of race riots, given our current political strife, I think is meant to lend the movie more political relevance and social commentary than it has been given credit for in these threads. Perhaps, to some of the film's detractors, this may seem like a preposterous overreach on the part of either Scorsese or myself. nevertheless, I wish this element would get more attention.
The pun is that Beacon Hill, the location of the Boston State House, is full of rats. There's the whole "life's a rat race" idea running at the same time as the idea of all politicians as rats. That's what people see as a pun.
I prefer to see it as an indication that there is still evil in the world. Frank Costello and all his rats may be dead, but that doesn't mean the world is a safe place. It's subverting our new perceptions of the world. All of the bad guys are dead, but there are more. There will always be more.
Just to be clear, when I referred to the ending of THE DEPARTED, I meant the fate that befalls the four lead characters. Generally speaking, audiences don't like it when that happens. (My brother, for example, doesn't understand why THE WILD BUNCH has to end as it does. I do.)
I just saw The Departed for the second time today. I must admit, since the only version playing on cable was a horribly dubbed version, I have yet to see Infernal Affairs, which I'm sure has helped my appreciation for Scorsese's version.
Jim, I had purposefully avoided your original post until I had seen The Departed the first time. I was surprised to read that you had problems with the editing, and I still didn't notice any choppiness (at least not that detracted from the film) the second time around. I think Scorsese and Schoonmaker have created over the years a "let's get on with it" style (like when DiCaprio packs up his stuff between the two phone calls with Damon) matched with a desire to get the best takes of each performance. For whatever reason, my aesthetic sensibilities are usually in tune with Scorsese, and this film was no exception. I understand why the editing brought you out of the moviegoing experience, but that never happened to me.
What I noticed mostly on second viewing was how much richer of a film it is than I had at first realized. The first viewing (again, especially since I hadn't seen Infernal Affairs) was like a roller coaster ride. I left thinking that's all it was and that Jack's stylized performance was part of that ride. To me, it was like Cape Fear without the ridiculousness.
However, the second time through, I thought it was even smarter and wiser than I had remembered. The first time around I had missed most of it's commentary on "manhood" and the boy's club mentality. The usual machismo of this kind of movie is given a twist with Damon being impotent (with DiCaprio presumably being the father of the baby), Nicholson possibly being a repressed homosexual, the tortured father/son relationships of Damon/Nicholson, DiCpaprio/Sheen, and DiCaprio/Nicholson. There are several nice moments when this theme of "manhood" is touched upon, like when DiCaprio is accused of having his period for drinking cranberry juice, when the shrink points out the penis in the ultrasound, or when Baldwin expounds on the benefits of marriage for a detective.
Also on second viewing, like you, I came to value Nicholson performance more, though I liked it the first time. It's not just him being "Jack." You can see his transformation into madness, just as you can see DiCaprio starting to lose it as well. Just because he showed a similar skill in The Shining shouldn't detract from this performance.
On a side note, during the second viewing, I was once again caught off guard by how long it takes for the title credit to appear. I thought this was used to good effect. Aside from movies that don't show the title until the end of the film, has any movie waited that long to display its title?
Upon the second viewing, I have started to think about this picture as one big homage to Hitchcock. Several people have already invoked Hitchcock's name with regards to the computer chips as MacGuffin, and the visual pun of the final shot. The film's tone seemed to me very similar to a NORTH BY NORTHWEST, another movie that looks like a thriller on the surface but upon multiple viewings reveals itself to be more of an absurd comedy. One line from THE DEPARTED that I particularly enjoyed the second time around was Martin Sheen yelling "I don't have a tail!" into his phone on the subway. With so many rats in this movie, it's hard to know who has a tail and who doesn't.
I couldn't help commending your audience of commentators, Jim. I glanced over your original post before seeing DEPARTED, as I do infrequently with movies. I had no intention of seeing this immediatley, and glad I did.
Reading the comments -after- hit every nail on the head for me-- and I'd like to reitterate that Scorsese must have the ability to let an actor draw themselves out-- I would have thought Wahlberg could play a d***, but DiCaprio receives kudos for relentless intensity.
While considering the deep breath that I took for Billy Costigan, who FINALLY relaxes his face in the elevator after apprehending Sullivan, I've never jumped so high out of my seat in a movie theatre before (except for the Jackass movies!).
I must see it again to figure out: what the HELL did Costello draw and give to the beer-drinking Sister at the diner?
We could collectively solicit Scorsese for elucidation on the DVD release! Perhaps prints on eBay?
I saw THE DEPARTED again over the weekend, and I don't think I've ever had such a radical change of opinion about a movie. This time, rather than comparing it to INFERNAL AFFAIRS at every turn, I simply enjoyed it on its own terms, and it made all the difference in the world. Anyway, it's not up there with TAXI DRIVER, but now I'd say it ranks with Scorsese's best work since then -- including GOODFELLAS.
I've seen it 4 times & I love it. One thing I haven't seen mentioned: Madolyn & Colin are in the new apartment & he sees the picture of her as a child. There's a knock on the door & she says "The mover's are here". Later, Billy goes to her house. Her furniture is there and Billy handles the picture. If anyone has an explanation, I'd be interested.
Can anyone tell me what happened to the letter (Leo) gave to (Farmiga) to hold for him?
I really did't get what happened the letter billy gave the Madolyn can any one tell me
Any talk about DiCaprio's character being Jack Nicholson's son?
1) Nicholson knew his mother cause he left a card at her funeral
2) The picture DiCaprio shows his Aunt with him and his father shows an old man. it would seem too old to have a child.
3) He uses the same line as Nicholson "schools out".
4) He has the same temper and paranoia as Nicholson.
5) He is drawn to the same woman as Matt Damon (whom Nicholson's character acted as a father figure to.
6) Nicholson's character was obviously good with the ladies, a trait he passed on to Damon, and he clearly wanted a son. So is it not reasonable to believe he had an affair with DiCaprio's mother and maybe when she found out she was pregnant she went to Costigan Sr. to help her raise the child right?
Just tossin' it out there....
I am no critic but I am a movie watcher. What was most evident in The Departed was the use of directorial techniques for effect rather than to effectively stir the emotions. I want to FEEL the effect of his directorial choices not become aware of them.
Makes me think that Scorcese was so obsessed with his "favorite" takes that he spliced them together regardless.
Sorry that I am coming to this thread so late, but I only just saw the film this last weekend and I was touched by one character in particular. I looked for some more information on that character and came upon this discussion.
In general a movie full of gangsters beating each other and shooting each other up is getting pretty boring to me. You can find plenty of movies like those in the video store. For some reason, though, the Madolyn (Farmiga) character really added to the plot for me, and more than a formulaic love triangle to attract females. I was remarkably captivated by her very human performance in an otherwise inhuman picture (and ironically she was the last man standing, as it were).
In re-studying her character's role in the film, I believe that I have some answers to questions posed previously:
1) Why does her picture move from their shared apartment to her personal apartment a short time later? This is obviously not a prop handler's or editor's mistake. This points to the fact that she moved back out for a short time and shows that she was hesitant to settle down with the Sullivan (Damon) character. This originates from her coffee date with Costigan (DiCaprio) and leads directly to being open to inviting Costigan into her personal apartment and ultimately her bed.
2) What happened to the letter that Costigan gave her outside of her office? To put this in perspective, Costigan knows that there are only two people who know he is a police officer. With Queenan (Sheen) being dead that leaves Sullivan and Dignam (Wahlberg) and Costigan knows that Sullivan is the rat and out to get him. Therefore "If anything happens to me," knowing that he will shortly be confronting Sullivan, the only logical thing to be in the envelope would be instructions to hand over enough evidence to Dignam to prove that Sullivan was working for Costello. At the end we know what Dignam did with this information.
3) The question that no one has asked, but is driving my crazy is what was Madolyn going to say to Costigan outside of her office when he gave her the envelope? My strong suspicion (as if it really matters in a fictional story) is that she was pregnant and he was the likely father. Since he wanted nothing to do with what she had to say, she decided that he was not stable enough to take responsibility for the child and made up her mind for what she thought would be the last time to settle down with Sullivan. It was only after this point that she gave Sullivan the information that she had obviously known for quite some time.
So again, I am sorry if no one is watching this thread any longer, but I felt the need to add my two cents to the discussion and attempt to answer some of the previous questions.
I too am apologetic for being a late poster,
but something I'm curious to know is:
Why was Sullivan so favourable towards a Medal of Merit & state funeral for Costigan?
I've put all the pieces together in this film bar that one, and it's really bugging me! Any suggestions?
Tim, in regards to your question about what was Madolyn going to say, I also presume she was going to tell him about the baby. Although I'm not sure about "made up her mind for what she thought would be the last time to settle down with Sullivan." - I think she wanted discuss the baby with Costigan at that very moment, but he stopped her, if you remember, and said something about "wait for 2 weeks". And then he took off without letting her comment.
So MY belief is, is that she was going to tell him about the baby but he told her to wait and then left before she could say anything more.
But then with this movie you can interpret various things in different ways. So I guess we'll never know the actual truth.
Seriously LOVED this movie!
Jake, I totally agree with you, but let me explain what I mean about settling down. My reading of the chain of events is that she wanted desperately to tell Costigan that she was carrying his baby and wanted him to step up, be the proper daddy and take her away from Sullivan. But he totally blew off what she wanted to say and pushed her off for two weeks. In her mind, he was going to be flirting about for two weeks and that he would not at all be the kind of man who was going to support her and her baby. It looks like she very reluctant to show Sullivan the ultrasound results but she probably felt that was her only option. It also appears that he was hesitant to believe that he could be the father given his impotency. To emphasize the point you will notice that at the funeral he asks Madolyn "What about THE baby?" rather than "What about OUR baby?"
Sian, as to your question, one or both of these rationales would be justified for Sullivan to recommend the Medal of Merit for Costigan. Firstly, Sullivan was not under suspicion at that time for the being involved at all in the murder of Costigan. In order to direct suspicion away from himself, it would make sense for him to claim to have the highest regard for the role Costigan played. Secondly, at that point in the film, Sullivan recognizes what a scum bag Frank really is (in that he is also an FBI informant) and may have truly come to appreciate the risk that Costigan took by trying to infiltrate his group and bring him down and sincerely wishes that he be recognized for that.
Again, I liked this movie more for what it left to the viewer to interpret between the lines than what it physically portrayed on the screen.