I think the Lips put on a great show and anyone fortunate enough to get to see it as many times as the author suggests he has should be grateful. I live in Houston, TX and even though it's a huge city full of Lips fans, the last time we got a Lips show was when they supported Beck, and 'The Soft Bulletin' before that. Some people ALWAYS have to travel to see the Lips' show, so it's frustrating to hear complaints from someone taking so much for granted. Say what you will about Wayne's decision or Pitchfork, but to me it's a great show at an affordable price in a great city. It's unfortunate that anyone would overlook these elements just to broadcast their misguided sense of entitlement. Obviously Mr. DeRogatis has seen the Lips play, but never heard their message.

Heard their "message"? F---ing please. This used to be a ROCK band. The past decade they've been nothing more than a traveling carnival novelty act who cares more about blowing up balloons and squirting fake blood than playing music (which shouldn't be a problem considering the back catalogue they have to draw on). The whole situation (not necessarily P4k, but their live touring shtick in general) is just really sad.

I wouldn't say it's been bad for a full decade, really. The first "Soft Bulletin" tour in 1999 (the "Music Against Brain Degeneration" tour w/ Sebadoh, Robyn Hitchcock) was pretty cool. But doing the same crap for the next 8-9 years after that is just lame.

Thanks, Jim, for putting into words the frustration that's been simmering in me for some time. I absolutely love The Flaming Lips! That being said, each time I see them (shows to many of which I have traveled, Michael Bell) I come away a little more disappointed in the sameness of the show/circus. I've only heard "Slow Nerve Action" live one time (the first time I saw them) and I've come to accept that I will never heard it again because it dropped out of the rotation a long time ago. Sigh. At least I have memories of the days when you didn't know what was going to happen when you went to see the Lips.

Matt, your stinging criticism of the Lips would have a lot more of an impact on me if you hadn't called it "P4k." It's hard for me to take such a scenester seriously.

Sorry, the jokiness of that doesn't really come through well in print. But honestly, your criticism sounds like the typical pretentious music fan who's convinced that every concert is just about the music. With some bands (like, say, My Bloody Valentine), this is true. With the Lips, it's not anymore. First of all, Wayne's voice is SHOT. He was never the strongest singer, but listening to him try to do "Free Radicals" outside the studio is just painful, 'cause all he can do at this point is shout it. So they've replaced the singing with a lot of spectacle. Some of it, I think, works (like the UFO broadcasting weird things in the background, or the cannons of confetti). Some of it, like the ridiculous Happy Birthday b.s. or the crowd-surfing space bubble, could be done away with.

But calling them a "carnival novelty act" for the last ten years smacks of insanity to me. Whether or not they've overusing certain songs from their most recent records, those records have been pretty much outstanding. If you're really going to argue that The Soft Bulletin or Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots aren't classics, sorry, I'm gonna have to call you nuts. And I still think that At War with the Mystics was severely underrated by a lot of critics, 'cause there were some cool things going on (sort of the same kinds of cool things that made Hit to Death interesting, if not a masterpiece).

You're right on one thing though; there's not a "message." At the end of the day, this is still a band, and whether you're going to the concert to listen to the music or see the spectacle (or, as is my case, both), the only message is contained in the stories of the songs. These are regular guys, not priests or prophets.

Are you people seriously suggesting that there's not a message overtly being put forth at the Lips' shows? Or that they're not playing "ROCK" songs during the show? I'm not sure what some of you are complaining about. Their setlists are pulled from their 2 biggest albums, their new tunes, a few old songs and some covers. This pretty much describes most bands on the road, no? Again, everyone's got favorites, and everyone's seen shows where their favorite tune gets skipped. Most of these comments come off like the hot air spouted by those people who spend the whole show blathering on about how everything was better 15 years ago when it was more exclusive. If the Lips are so disappointing, then go see something else.

So now you're a "scenster" if you use shorthand on an internet message board? I think you're the one missing the point. Look, i LOVE this band..possibly more than 99% of the others out there. A lot of people feel the same way. My gripe isnt so much with their latest albums (although I disagree with you on AWWM..it was a huge dissapointment to me, both production and songwise, although there are some redeeming qualities). My frustration is in regards to how spectacle has overtaken the music. Its the predictability of their live set. Wheres the fun in going to a show when you basically know the set list you're going to get? What they're doing now was "new" at one point. But its not now, 8 years out. I think all we're asking of this band is to at least acknowledge the people who followed them pre-2000 (and there are plenty of new fans who Im sure no doubt would enjoy hearing Jesus Walks Among Us Now or Slow Nerve Action). And in regards to your point regarding Waynes voice, I actually think this material puts less of a demand on his singing than the new stuff. The focus is obviously far much more on the screaming guitars than on any vocal subtledy or grace, thats for sure.

The Lips are arguably my favorite band ever, and Wayne's paid his dues as much as anyone in rock history, but Jim's pretty much right. It seems like the musical well has run dry. In the seven years since Yoshimi, they've released a grand total of one album (not including the movie soundtrack), while they seem to have plenty of time to play lucrative festivals, do commercials, and film a mediocre (albiet charming) B-movie.

Back in the day, you'd go to a Lips concert and have no idea what was going to happen. Now it's a premeditated, choreographed nostalgia trip with no surprises.

I completely agree with Jim on this one. I have been seeing the lips since 2003 and have even been an animal dancer on stage with them. I am very fortunate to have that opportunity and to have seen over 10 of their shows in the past decade. However, each show is essentially the same! Their last show at the Aragon was a bit longer than their usual 45 minutes of music and a half hour of Wayne rambling festival sets, but did not differ much.

Their fans will be fans regardless of what they do. Why? Because they make great music! As they always have. Now it's time to hear some of the magic that they created in the 80's and 90's again.

Wayne: Take some effort out of the spectacle and a bit more into rehearsing some old tunes. I swear it will pay off in the end when you can bridge the two.

I think we're holding these guys to a higher standard than most bands. I agree, I would like to see them get more adventurous and challenge their audience a bit more, but it's a fine line. If they broke out DeRo's setlist, there would be about 50 people happy and cheering, and the rest would be complaining that they didn't play any songs they knew.

From what I've read, this years NYE show was less spectacle and much more rock concert. A bunch of standards were dropped, while Turn it On, Spark That Bled and others were added. Plus, much less stage banter from Wayne, which was truly becoming a case of saying the same thing every night between songs. I've also read comments from Wayne that it's time for them to change their show for the next tour, saying, "it's a new day, it's time to try some new things". We'll see, but that is a good sign.

All in all, kudos to Pitchfork for putting together a great lineup over the weekend. For $75, it's a steal. Even if the Lips do trot out their same shitck, I mean, it could be worse...you could have to cover and write about Lollapalooza this year. Jim, you'll get plenty of old songs at that one.

Um...It's just too heavy.

Matt wrote:
So now you're a "scenster" if you use shorthand on an internet message board?

Again, the humorous tone that had in my head didn't quite translate as I had hoped.

AWWM... was a huge dissapointment to me, both production and songwise

I'll grant you that some of the songs weren't as strong as on other recent(ish) albums, but I don't understand the gripe about the production. Jim has often commented on how Transmissions was like music in 3-D; I thought Mystics put it into 4-D, or added another layer of depth, or something like that. The ending guitar lick of "It Overtakes Me" alone practically puts the listener inside the guitar; the random noises in "Free Radicals" (like Wayne's well-placed hiccup) put the listener in the same headspace as after visiting an Amsterdam smartshop. Say what you will about the songwriting, but I thought Fridmann and the boys produced it insanely well, especially considering "Haven't Got a Clue" had no melody but still sounded cool.

I actually think this material puts less of a demand on his singing than the new stuff. The focus is obviously far much more on the screaming guitars than on any vocal subtledy or grace, thats for sure.

This is a problematic statement for me, because I feel like you're looking for a band that no longer exists. If the Lips suddenly comprised a set of Clouds and Transmissions and Ambulance tunes, I'd love it as much as any other Lips fan out there; but I wouldn't expect the focus to be on "the screaming guitars," because that's not what this band does anymore. Maybe you think it should be what they do, and maybe you're right, but the fact is, the noise-rock Lips were a different band than the psycho-pop princes they've become. Asking for that is like asking for the catchy bar-band atmosphere that drove the Being There-era Wilco shows to return, even given the different talent level and style of their new members; or for Animal Collective to go back to the zany, experimental acoustic rock of a few years ago. Bands grow, bands develop. They may not be in ways we always expect -- and quite often, they'll be in ways we dislike -- but expecting the drowned-in-sound noise of once-upon-a-time probably isn't going to work; and if that's what you're expecting, you'll probably be disappointed.

That said, I would absolutely LOVE to hear a bunch of old Lips tunes at their live shows. I mean, seriously, I've been a fan since I randomly happened to catch them on 90210 when I was in third grade, and having never heard "Turn It One" or "Slow Nerve Action" live, that'd just throw me. And you're probably right that the older material would be easier on Wayne's voice. I just think that if you're looking for a return to the same sounds that made us fall in love with them in the first place, you're setting yourself up for massive disappointment.

Is Wayne going to be your Lou Reed?

And HP, Dell etc...

Richard wrote:
Is Wayne going to be your Lou Reed

Jim could only be so lucky. But let's hope the closest Wayne ever gets to Metal Machine Music is "Haven't Got a Clue."

I follow the topic of old songs, and changes to the live set closely...very closely. But let's not forget, in regards to old songs, they had a different lineup, depending on the years, and most recently Ronald Jones was responsible for that particular wall of sound flavor from '91-'96. He cannot be replaced. Steven knows this, as does Wayne. The band took a huge turn in musical direction after he departed.....which eventually lead to where we are today.

But for every post here about it being the same show night after night for the last 10 years, I can point to several shows a year that break that set list mold. The key is to always plan your shows carefully, check in with the fan board once and a while, etc.

Yes they have been using balloons and confetti for years, but even these staples have changed quite a bit over the years, not to mention the rarely trotted out UFO.

I think the real issue is since the legendary Bonnaroo 2003 show they have picked up more and more "jam band" fans, who compare them to the other bands they go see on a regular basis. Outside the "jam band circuit", everyone plays pretty much the same show note for note every night. The bands don't have fans that plan on seeing 4 or 5 or more shows per year, year after year.

That being said, they have been trending towards longer shows (their last Bonnaroo performance in 2007 was their longest ever, over 2.5 hours, and several unusual song choices....Mountainside, What is the Light> The Observer, Moonlight Mile cover)

The set lists have varied with each tour, new covers, and once in a while you will become part of some weird experiment involving 10,000 laser pointers.

Most recently they played their hometown for NYE and the show was quite different than most of the 2008 ones. This could signal change is afoot, and since a new album is coming out soon, there will be several new songs in the live show right there. Their setlist was full of surprises, and very light on Wayne banter. They did Purple Rain, Turn it On, (first time since '96) Spark That Bled, All We have is Now...as well as Mountainside and The Process, both older gems. Where the fark was Jim D for this show?

If you keep checking into the board, you can easily find the "event" shows to go to, and pretty much be assured that something special or different will be played.

I won't even go into how Steven tries to play things differently all the time, and comparing the same song from any tour will reveal many differences.....

Finally: Wayne knows what people say here and elsewhere, and yet he tries to balance that with those in the audience that he feels are unfamiliar with the older stuff. It is impossible to please us all! But slowly he is seeing and hearing that the newer fans enjoy the older songs too, and it motivates them to investigate the Lips back catalog.

Songs I have seen live in the past few years, without going to millions of shows are anything:

The Gash
Bohemian Rhapsody
Morning of the Magicians
Ode to CC prt II
You Have to be Joking
Love Yer Brain
Spark That Bled
The Process
Mountainside
Moonlight Mile
What is the Light>The Observer
Turn it On
Purple Rain
All We Have is Now

I missed: Spongebob, Slow Nerve Action, and I am sure other I can't think of right now....point being: they do mix it up on occasion.

And based on their last concert live, maybe we all should chill and see what happens.....or not go see them live if it bothers you so much Jim!

Brendan, I actually think we're on the same page by and large. Its definitely not my desire to see the Lips become some nostalgia act only playing old stuff..I'd just like A) more variety (I mean, whens the last time they've played something from Zaireeka?) and B) slightly longer setlists.

But to reply to your comments regarding the AWWM production...i guess to each their own. I find Friddmans production to be close to unlistenable. Its compressed to hell, all at the sacrifice of plain loudness. If you listen closely on a good system, its so compressed that it clips in many places. There is no way to "restore" dynamic range that's been lost in the recording or mastering process, and its sad that the Lips/Fridmann resorted to such a marketing tactic. Theres no room for any sound to breathe, and I find it exhausting to listen to. This is the same issue that Metallica got justly criticized for on Death Magnetic..many other bands and producers do the same thing. I just dont understand it.

Also, you made a comment about Wilco. The difference is, Wilco actually still acknowledges a huge amount of their back catalog at live shows and the choices are rarely predictable. Yes, their lineup has evolved drastically over the years and they're by no means the same band as they were when Being There came out. But hearing the new lineup (can you say Nels Cline) re-interpret the older songs is part of what makes seeing Wilco in 2009 an incredible experience

Matt:

I think you're right, bud. I'd love to see "2025" or "Big Ol' Bug" performed. And although I do like some of the theatrics (let's face it, the UFO is really cool), I could do without Wayne's banter, 'cause he's never gotten over his on-stage awkwardness the way Tweedy has.

And while I agree to a point about Wilco, this hasn't always been the case with them. If you only see them once, it's really cool to hear "Red Eyed and Blue" go into "I Got You (At the End of the Century)," but I heard that at six straight shows. Good tracks, mind you, some of my favorites off Being There, but it got old after awhile. The last few times I've seen them, though, they've varied it up more, though "I'm the Man Who Loves You" is starting to become their version of "Race for the Prize," with granted Nels' awesome guitar (which blows away anything Jay Bennett ever did). You're right, though, that seeing the current lineup take on older stuff is pretty cool (Jeff may not like it, but I loved the arrangement they put on "I Thought I Held You," even while Jeff had a sh*t-eating grin on the entire way through).

So far as the clipped production on Mystics goes, I don't know if you got a defective copy or what, but the flacs I have of it are pretty outstanding. And the 5.1 mix of Soft Bulletin is amazing, too. I had issues with Yoshimi for awhile, but after actually looking at a digital analysis of it, I was surprised to see just how detailed the mixdown was. I dunno, though... I'd love to discuss this further, one audiophile to another (although I'm one of those pretentious jackasses who insists on buying his favorite albums on vinyl and claims that there's something on them that sounds better), but I think we're running out of room on this board for the discussion :D

Matt L.--

They played a song off of Zaireeka at their last Chicago show. I guess you missed it.

I did miss the last Chicago show.

In any case, i have to make one final point about Friddman, and Im only bringing this up because I just saw this today and it perfectly illustrates the point I was making. Ben Goldwasser from MGMT was interviewed in the latest Rolling Stone..this is an exact quote about their recording process;

"We redid a lot of our songs that sounded too polished... Dave (producer David Fridmann) ended up running the tracks through this thing that crushed them and made them sound really gross again. They're a lot better now." - Ben Goldwasser in Rolling Stone"

If you can get past the hilarity of that comment, you begin to understand Friddmanns process. Not only is he intentionally recording stuff so as to introduce digital clipping (Kliph from the Lips has often stated Fridmann likes to record "in the red", meaning compressed), he is also downsampling the resultant audio to make it clip and distort even more.

Im not claiming to be an audiophile (although do I do love vinyl), but this type of production "philosophy" is ruining music. Thats my story and Im sticking to it.

Isn't it possible... perhaps... that an "audience choice" setlist for the Flaming Lips would be staggeringly mundane? I convinced the songs would still come, almost exclusively, from Yoshimi (their shittiest album, in my opinion, but their best seller), with a few tracks from Soft Bulletin.

If it were dedicated fans with proven encyclopedic knowledge of the full Lips catalogue and live shows, then maybe I'd get angry about this. As is, I have faith that the Lips know their songs better than the average Pitchfork ticket buyer.

Beware the tyranny of the masses.