There's a perception among many in the African-American community that black and brown citizens are subjected to harsher treatment than whites by the criminal justice system. You may or may not agree. But how do you explain an incident, described for us by a professional African-American woman who witnessed the chain of events while waiting for the No. 6 CTA bus:
What she saw:
A dingy gold Ford Explorer stopped short in on Lake Park Boulevard in left lane just after going through a green light. The driver of the Explorer jumps out and stomps over to another SUV (a Honda) that had screeched to a halt just behind him. It's about 3:25 in the afternoon. Explorer yells, "You cut me off." Honda driver rolls down his window and argues back. A war of words ensues.
A street brawl erupts:
Honda rolls up his window. Explorer spits out a final retort, punching the closed window to show how much he means it, and then begins to stomp back to his vehicle.
But now, Honda is pissed off. He gets out and confronts Explorer face to face. Man to man. More angry words exchange. Someone spits. Someone throws the first punch. Pretty soon shirts are being pulled up and off and fists are flying. Both their SUVs are idling in the middle of the street, threatening to obstruct traffic.
Police arrive:
In swoop the police, two of them in an unmarked maroon car. One officer is speaking into a radio, presumably calling for back up. By now, Explorer had gotten back into his vehicle and tries to drive away but the cops pull in front and block him in.
The cops get out and begin to assess the situation. Soon, they are joined by a dozen or so officers who arrive in another unmarked car, three or four squads, a wagon, and a police SUV carrying some district honcho types.
Cops are milling around. We witnesses relay what we saw. Honda is painted the victim. Explorer is placed in cuffs. One cop gives him a verbal dress down, saying Explorer's version of events doesn't jibe with what witnesses are saying.
No arrests?
Then, things fall apart. Honda is back in the car and drives away. What? We witnesses don't understand. Shouldn't this guy remain on the scene, or be escorted to the police station? Don't the cops need to write up some kind of report or dispense some tickets for traffic violations? (Obstructing traffic, for starters.)
Then the cuffs are taken off of Explorer and he, too, is allowed to go on his merry way. No ticket. No arrest.
Huh? An officer comes over to tell witnesses that there was nothing they could do because Honda had decided not to press charges. What about disturbing the peace, we say? Disorderly conduct or assault? What about their both creating a dangerous situation on the street that could have caused an accident?
Nope, the officer said. There was nothing they could do. (I have since learned that citizens have the right to press charges in these kinds of situations. Of course, the officer did not offer this suggestion.)
Not equal justice:
This is American justice for white men. The other side of what is typically picked up by the media. Images of black and Latino men, young and old, who get yanked from their vehicles, strong-armed, handcuffed, frisked, and physically held, sometimes by the bottom of an officer's shoe, on the street until they are loaded into a wagon and carted off to the nearest holding pen.
This is how white men are (not) held accountable for their actions. I can imagine how this whole scene would have been dealt with by authorities had the brawlers been men of color.
Not one of the cops I saw held their hand instinctively, protectively over their weapons, a hair trigger away. I suppose everyone knows that old white guys, even when they're perps, are just not that scary.
Still, I wouldn't take any chances. Beware of an angry white man driving a Ford Explorer, who thinks, and now knows from experience, that he is entitled to do whatever he wants whenever he wants to whomever he wants with little fear that there'll be consequences or repercussions.
Mary Mitchell is a columnist for the 
Mary, this is crap. The reason there are no arrests in a situation like this is because it is not worth the taxpayers time or money, or the police for that matter. The situation was diffused, the exchange got heated, and the matter was closed. I am seriously wondering why you feel the need to inject racism into so many places that it doesn't belong? You are not part of the solution, but in many cases part of the problem. You know, most white folk don't care what color someone is, a jerk is a jerk. The only reason that we still have race issues in this country is because people of power, such as yourself, are constantly reopening old wounds and getting people all riled about race. If there was racism, then by all means report it. For the most part you just seem to find racism where it doesn't exist. I guess that is how you have made your career, though. If race relations got better in this country you would be out of a job, so it is your job to make sure people are still fired up about it.
Are you serious?! If you want to inject race into this, ask all the questions then.- What color were the officers? What did the other witnesses see? Was traffic really blocked? What color were all the other witnesses??
Also, citizens pressing charges in a situation like does not work how you think it does- otherwise we would have citizens pressing charges against people all day long- Cars don't stop for me crossing the crosswalk every single day!
Also, would you like other stories? The kids and teens in the park across the street from me are there at all hours. They start fighting, beating and kicking eachother. People then call the cops, the cops come and clear out the park, the offenders are told to go on their way- no arrests or reports or witness statements. About an hour later all the kids come back and start more trouble. It's an ongoing thing all summer long. Care to guess what color the kids are?
So if I understand you correctly, citizens should step up and insist on arrests any time they see road rage? Of course only white people do this sort of thing.
Pls tell me this was an 8-yeard old girl who relayed this story...
Mary, you are so right and anyone of Color knows how the police (regardless of color of the officers) will handle White men differently and with preferential treatment. If anyone pretends not to know this is true let them walk one hour in men of color shoes and they will never speak as hawk or mark did because they will witness first hand the brutality of officers toward men of color in every facet of life.
Thanks
I'm trying to figure out just where race came into your summation of events? Your story never mentioned the race of anyone involved in the altercation, except that one of the witnesses waiting for a bus just happened to be African-American. The key phrase here is "just happened to be," as if the witness's race might have swayed anyone involved. Is that supposed to create animosity against the two in the fight or the police? Sounds to me like you're disgruntled because one, if not both, of the men (I'm guessing one, if not both, of the men is white) were not led away in handcuffs the way a black man would (again, you expect that the outcome would be different because of race).
Every once in a while, I read the Chicago Sun-Times online to get a different perspective than the Chicago Tribune or to read more local news than the Tribune's website contains. I certainly enjoy reading about relevant race issues, such as why black people are seemingly apathetic about jurisprudence and law enforcement, yet I find little answer why such irrational stances are held no matter how preposterous or ridiculous the outcome (trial outcomes of R. Kelly, O.J. Simpson, being the two most egregious examples). Truth is, when African-Americans are delegated to condemn their own, seldom does commonsense serve as a guide. Stories such as this goad African-Americans against commonsense rather than create color blind assessment of a problem.
If these guys were black they would have been dead or in prison on the scene..whites always get a slap on the wrist, blacks just get slapped! love your column
Seems every other thing you write about is race.
Instead of fueling flames to seperate the races, step up and combine them!
You are doing your race a dishonor for one, because in your blame game, you are the victim always...never accountable.
And whitey always at fault.
If you had some sense of decency, you would take the evils of the world you write about and promote more, and disinigrate less.
As an african American, your race needs more up lift by you.
I see no answers to the black/white name game, only discrimination turnaround by your part.
Time to grow up and be a real writer.
I bet one week, would not go by with out an Obama report,or race issues. Trick is, can you take yourself off that ride.
Community organizer questions 29th Ward
Alderman on his stance with the
Police Superintendent
National Block Club University (NBCU) founder has sent a letter to 29th Ward
Alderman Isaac Carothers to deal with the real issue and not scapegoat around
anymore. Founder; Sy Smith says, urban violence will not be stopped by the police
alone and the unbalance approach is part of the problem. Sy questions if the alderman
would take a stance to call out the Mayor the way he is calling out the police chief?
www.nationalblockcl ubuniversity. com
###
NBCU National Block Club University
“The Largest Block Club Network in America”
6610 South Albany Avenue Chicago, Illinois 1 800 861-6541
www.nationalblockcl ubuniversity. com
July 9, 2008
Alderman 29th Ward
Isaac Carothers
5937 W. Madison Avenue
Chicago, IL 60644
773 261-4646
Dear Mr. Carothers,
My name is Syron Smith of Chicago, IL. I founded a national violence prevention organization
called National Block Club University. Our mission is to track, monitor, and counter acts of violence
throughout 167 of America's most underserved communities.
The purpose of this letter is regarding your stated position that the violence at this year's fireworks
show was a police deployment problem and that we had people who have handled it better in the past.
Mr. Carothers, violence has not been handled in Chicago, please do not look at the number of homicides
as a determining factor for whether or not violence is being "handled". Your 29th Ward is not that peaceful,
as a taxpayer in this city, I strongly recommend you and the rest of the city council begin to think outside
the box in regards to violence prevention. We must begin by acknowledging the root causes of the
violence, identify what demographic are committing these acts and ask the question WHY. I am very open
to discussing some hands on solutions that are ready to be implemented. I can be reached at
312 405-8844.
Thank you in advance for accepting my first amendment right of, freedom of speech without allowing
that to hamper any future work that has to be done for the citizens of this city and country. I know you
are a much more professional politician than that.
Sincerely,
Syron M. Smith
Founder
National Block Club University
Date Rcvd Victim What Happened Block City Village
7/6/2008 Man shot Chicago police shoot 2nd man 2000 blk of E. 83rd Chicago
7/6/2008 Man killed Police shoot a man with a gun 61st & Kedzie Chicago
7/5/2008 4 killed 4 shot to death at a Milwaukee party 28th & Wright Milwaukee 2:30am
7/5/2008 2 yr old boy Boy shot at liquor store; father's gun? 825 E. Sibley Avenue Chicago 1:30am
7/4/2008 3 shot; 1 dead 3 males shot; 1 dies at Taste of Chicago Congress & Dearborn Chicago 10:30pm
7/4/2008 2 shot 2 shot inside home at home Philly
7/4/2008 Unknown Man Philly man shot while texting his mom Frankford & Orthodox Philly midnight
7/4/2008 31 yr old Man Chicago man shot to death 74th & May Chicago
7/3/2008 15 yr old teen Teen stabbed to death in Queens Jamiaca Queens New York 10:30pm
7/3/2008 Unknown Man San Diego man stabbed outside store Hillcrest Shopping Ctr San Diego
7/3/2008 2 shot Atlanta man shot 4 times at Starbucks Cascade Road Atlanta 9:15pm
7/3/2008 34 yr old Man Milwaukee drunk man shot dead 32nd & Vine Milwaukee 7:58pm
7/3/2008 6 murders Milwaukee has 6 murders during 4th of July S. 4th & Maple Milwaukee
7/2/2008 11 yr old male Birmingham boy shot at pool Shuttlesworth Drive Birmingham 2:01pm
7/2/2008 17 yr old female New Orleans teen shot dead;by boyfriend 2100 blk of Franklin Ave New Orleans 3:30am
7/1/2008 2 children 2 children witness armed home invasion at home Norfolk
7/1/2008 Unknown Man Dallas man shot dead in home invasion 9500 blk of Paramount Ave Dallas
7/1/2008 2 shot 2 shot in St. Louis; 1 dies 9100 blk of Edna Ave St. Louis 4:50am
7/1/2008 16 yr old teen Norfolk football star shot dead Cheaspeake Norfolk
7/1/2008 too many killings New Orleans homicide rate is 95 94 murders last year New Orleans
7/1/2008 2 shot Double shooting leaves one dead 48 yr old man alive New Orleans 2:30pm
7/1/2008 2 shot; 1 dead 2 shot; 1 dies in Detroit shooting Schoolcraft & Virgil Rd Detroit Westside
7/1/2008 16 yr old teen Detroit teen shot dead trying to carjack Schaefer & W. Chgo Detroit
June 2008 donations, donate online at www.nationalblockcl ubuniversity. com West Side Reports:60612 = $ 20.0060623 = $150.0060624 = $ 1.0060639 = $ 0.0060644 = $ 1.2960651 = $ 10.00South Side Reports:60609 = $ 0.0060620 = $ 1.7560621 = $ 40.2160629 = $ 4.1460636 = $ 12.8060652 = $ 20.52Southeast Side Reports:60615 = $ 16.0560617 = $ 0.0060619 = $ 0.0060628 = $ 0.7260637 = $ 7.2960643 = $ 7.0460649 = $ 2.0060653 = $ 0.00
Community organizer questions 29th Ward
Alderman on his stance with the
Police Superintendent
National Block Club University (NBCU) founder has sent a letter to 29th Ward
Alderman Isaac Carothers to deal with the real issue and not scapegoat around
anymore. Founder; Sy Smith says, urban violence will not be stopped by the police
alone and the unbalance approach is part of the problem. Sy questions if the alderman
would take a stance to call out the Mayor the way he is calling out the police chief?
www.nationalblockcl ubuniversity. com
###
NBCU National Block Club University
“The Largest Block Club Network in America”
6610 South Albany Avenue Chicago, Illinois 1 800 861-6541
www.nationalblockcl ubuniversity. com
July 9, 2008
Alderman 29th Ward
Isaac Carothers
5937 W. Madison Avenue
Chicago, IL 60644
773 261-4646
Dear Mr. Carothers,
My name is Syron Smith of Chicago, IL. I founded a national violence prevention organization
called National Block Club University. Our mission is to track, monitor, and counter acts of violence
throughout 167 of America's most underserved communities.
The purpose of this letter is regarding your stated position that the violence at this year's fireworks
show was a police deployment problem and that we had people who have handled it better in the past.
Mr. Carothers, violence has not been handled in Chicago, please do not look at the number of homicides
as a determining factor for whether or not violence is being "handled". Your 29th Ward is not that peaceful,
as a taxpayer in this city, I strongly recommend you and the rest of the city council begin to think outside
the box in regards to violence prevention. We must begin by acknowledging the root causes of the
violence, identify what demographic are committing these acts and ask the question WHY. I am very open
to discussing some hands on solutions that are ready to be implemented. I can be reached at
312 405-8844.
Thank you in advance for accepting my first amendment right of, freedom of speech without allowing
that to hamper any future work that has to be done for the citizens of this city and country. I know you
are a much more professional politician than that.
Sincerely,
Syron M. Smith
Founder
National Block Club University
Date Rcvd Victim What Happened Block City Village
7/6/2008 Man shot Chicago police shoot 2nd man 2000 blk of E. 83rd Chicago
7/6/2008 Man killed Police shoot a man with a gun 61st & Kedzie Chicago
7/5/2008 4 killed 4 shot to death at a Milwaukee party 28th & Wright Milwaukee 2:30am
7/5/2008 2 yr old boy Boy shot at liquor store; father's gun? 825 E. Sibley Avenue Chicago 1:30am
7/4/2008 3 shot; 1 dead 3 males shot; 1 dies at Taste of Chicago Congress & Dearborn Chicago 10:30pm
7/4/2008 2 shot 2 shot inside home at home Philly
7/4/2008 Unknown Man Philly man shot while texting his mom Frankford & Orthodox Philly midnight
7/4/2008 31 yr old Man Chicago man shot to death 74th & May Chicago
7/3/2008 15 yr old teen Teen stabbed to death in Queens Jamiaca Queens New York 10:30pm
7/3/2008 Unknown Man San Diego man stabbed outside store Hillcrest Shopping Ctr San Diego
7/3/2008 2 shot Atlanta man shot 4 times at Starbucks Cascade Road Atlanta 9:15pm
7/3/2008 34 yr old Man Milwaukee drunk man shot dead 32nd & Vine Milwaukee 7:58pm
7/3/2008 6 murders Milwaukee has 6 murders during 4th of July S. 4th & Maple Milwaukee
7/2/2008 11 yr old male Birmingham boy shot at pool Shuttlesworth Drive Birmingham 2:01pm
7/2/2008 17 yr old female New Orleans teen shot dead;by boyfriend 2100 blk of Franklin Ave New Orleans 3:30am
7/1/2008 2 children 2 children witness armed home invasion at home Norfolk
7/1/2008 Unknown Man Dallas man shot dead in home invasion 9500 blk of Paramount Ave Dallas
7/1/2008 2 shot 2 shot in St. Louis; 1 dies 9100 blk of Edna Ave St. Louis 4:50am
7/1/2008 16 yr old teen Norfolk football star shot dead Cheaspeake Norfolk
7/1/2008 too many killings New Orleans homicide rate is 95 94 murders last year New Orleans
7/1/2008 2 shot Double shooting leaves one dead 48 yr old man alive New Orleans 2:30pm
7/1/2008 2 shot; 1 dead 2 shot; 1 dies in Detroit shooting Schoolcraft & Virgil Rd Detroit Westside
7/1/2008 16 yr old teen Detroit teen shot dead trying to carjack Schaefer & W. Chgo Detroit
June 2008 donations, donate online at www.nationalblockcl ubuniversity. com West Side Reports:60612 = $ 20.0060623 = $150.0060624 = $ 1.0060639 = $ 0.0060644 = $ 1.2960651 = $ 10.00South Side Reports:60609 = $ 0.0060620 = $ 1.7560621 = $ 40.2160629 = $ 4.1460636 = $ 12.8060652 = $ 20.52Southeast Side Reports:60615 = $ 16.0560617 = $ 0.0060619 = $ 0.0060628 = $ 0.7260637 = $ 7.2960643 = $ 7.0460649 = $ 2.0060653 = $ 0.00
The only racism I see here is by Mary Mitchell.
This article is about 20 times as racist as the actions it describes.
Pathetic.
The only think racist here is the article. Had a white reporter written the exact same thing about two non-white "perps", Sharpton, Jackson and all the other "civil rights" defenders would be on every channel imaginable calling for the firing of said reporter. Mary, you should be thankful that you aren't held to such standards.
I'd like to read Ms Mitchell's response to the previous posts..
Wow, I could roll my face across the keyboard and whatever appeared would be more logically and factually correct than this nonsense.
Race will no longer be an issue, until left wing moonbats like you STOP MAKING it an issue.
How unfortunate it is that in these modern times, racially deranged people like Mary are given a pulpit to sermonize bigotry to the masses.
Mary, you and your "news" organization should be ashamed for publishing the litany of hate speech that is your trademark.
Perhaps you should review a little bit of criminal law before you jump to asinine conclusions.
What you witnessed was a misdemeanor assault. Police cannot arrest on a misdemeanor anything unless it is committed in their presence. Second, the man assaulted didn't want to file charges so there was nothing the police could do besides let them both go.
Race baiting is such an ugly thing. Why do you do it?
Opinion on your article.
You are only race baiting. How do I address you to be politically correct as a influential Black Woman, African-American, person of color...? However, you are first an American.
With your journalistic pulpit, would you serve all better to draw on you experiences, knowledge and talents to present a common sense solution set to issues of Americans. A repeated printing of solutions is better than repeated verbalizing of proposed injustices.
This country has an over abundance of those who vet themselves by no less than racist bellowing despite their color. We need to work toward applied criteria for improving all our lives.
Respectfully,
Buddy
HEADLINE: WHITE MEN GET IN ARGUMENT - DECIDE NOT TO PRESS CHARGES.
Thats clear racism if i've ever seen it. Get a grip you race-baiter.
Once again a black complaining about whites while failing to address their own cultural issues. Mary will you be doing an article on black violent crime in all urban areas of our nation? Will you be doing an article on the black high school drop out rate in our nation? How about the black prison population in our nation? Or should we just wait for you to do another article on white crime like parking violations. Maybe do an article on white tax payers that support a high percentage of the black population on welfare. That would be a wonderful story to do on the evil white people.
Dropout rate...crime rate...fathers nearly nonexistent...drug use...
And you pick this silly statement?
The only reason that we still have race issues in this country is because people of power, such as yourself, are constantly reopening old wounds and getting people all riled about race.
Posted by: hawk | July 8, 2008 01:11 PM
Hawk, this statement would be hilarious if not for the serious nature of how the police treat alledged Black or Brown suspects. Ms. Mitchell is not a person of power, but one who works within the dominant power structure to highlight the discrepancies or marginalization when police procedures are dispense.
Though I would have called this a no-harm no-foul situation, be sure a high probability that if the participants were Black or Brown, their cars would have been searched, possibly made to lie on the gound while hand-cuffed or written a ticket for the nuisance that was caused by blocking traffic.
One of the funniest things to watch is a white person get pulled over by the police, written a ticket - if it is warranted - then watched them pull off quickly before the police gets back to their squad car. NOW ASK HOW MANY PEOPLE OF COLOR WAITS UNTIL THE OFFICER GETS BACK IN THEIR CAR, WAITS FOR THEM TO PULL OFF, BEFORE PRECEEDING ON TO THEIR DESTINATION?! Go ask a Black or Brown co-worker do they wait until the officer pulls off first?
*******
What color were the officers? What did the other witnesses see? Was traffic really blocked? What color were all the other witnesses??
Posted by: mark bradley | July 8, 2008 02:23 PM
You missed the point Mark - which is white males can do this regardless of the color of the police, witnesses all while traffic COULD POSSIBLY be blocked and still carry on their merry way.
The only racism I see is from the witer of this article.
Enough said.
Ms. Mitchell - Do you actually get paid to intentionally provoke and race bait? This is a sad perspective and world view which you hold. Unproductive, racist and devisive. What is the source of your bitterness? Do you genuinely believe this scenario is an imprisonment and arrest situation? This appears to be akin to a bar fight - nothing more.
Gee, what a wonderful judge of character this writer is. Sure am sorry we can' read her trash everyday. NOT !
Interesting perspective.
When you look up in the sky and see the white clouds, is the first thought in you mind that white males are racist and get away with everything?
When you give your children baths and see all the white bubbles, is the first thought in your mind that white males get away with everything?
If you're black, why aren't you writing about all the black on black crime. Isn't that offensive to you?
I think you're the racist Mary. You obviously have some paranoid, scared feelings about white people.
She thinks blacks are held accountable more than whites? Oh really? Like in the so-called Jenna 6 incident wherein 6 blacks kicked and stomped a white unconscious until a third party intervened before he was killed? And then when the D.A. tries to punish the perps the media tries to portray the blacks as the victims so they will get a lighter punishment. The D.A. is somehow racist when he tries to punish them for a very serious crime, you see. And the media doesn't care, the victim was a white male.
You pastor White and the rev. Jessie Jackson incite racial division. Have we forgotten about the O.J. Simpson verdict????? That was alittle lopsided dont you think or perhaps because he only dates white women he got white mans justice??
Thank you for writing this column. No matter what happens in life, both side of the story need to be told. The police did not acknowledge the witnesses, but you did. I was not there, I have been in fights with no arrests. More people should give their stories of how, they see police resolve different scenarios, since only with a total analysis, can we truly see if color played a role in administering punishment, or freedom.
Please look past your rainbow of colors and see the situation for what it was, road rage. Were guns drawn, were people shot or killed, were innocent people ducking from bullets? No!.. you want to make off "color" remarks then lets take this scenerio to the west side after dark, you would have been writing a "whoa is me" story about someone killed, probably another innocent bystander or child. Why bother with an old fashioned fist fight when there are gangs, drugs, guns, rapes, robberies, and murders going on? Look at the big picture! 1.2 million people at the taste and who shot and killed who.. wasn't white people was it?
Way to create racism, once again, where racism probably did not exist. Oh and by the way, just so you know, black suspects are ALMOST ALWAYS COMBATIVE. But I know you would rather just sit there and make excuses for "yo people" instead of opening your eyes to true reality and calling for personal responsibility.
I guess Mary was coming up on a deadline fast and needed to type something quick. That is the only logical explanation for this crap.
I guess you're to poor victim once again Mary! When are you going to quit whining and open your eyes?
This is the reason that ALL blacks now see racism behind their every thought. From the Dallas Morning News, 5:34 PM Mon, Jul 07, 2008.
http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/07/dallas-county
-meeting-turns-ra.html
A special meeting about Dallas County traffic tickets turned tense and bizarre this afternoon.
County commissioners were discussing problems with the central collections office that is used to process traffic ticket payments and handle other paperwork normally done by the JP Courts.
Commissioner Kenneth Mayfield, who is white, said it seemed that central collections "has become a black hole" because paperwork reportedly has become lost in the office.
Commissioner John Wiley Price, who is black, interrupted him with a loud "Excuse me!" He then corrected his colleague, saying the office has become a "white hole."
That prompted Judge Thomas Jones, who is black, to demand an apology from Mayfield for his racially insensitive analogy.
Mayfield shot back that it was a figure of speech and a science term. A black hole, according to Webster's, is perhaps "the invisible remains of a collapsed star, with an intense gravitational field from which neither light nor matter can escape."
Other county officials quickly interceded to break it up and get the meeting back on track. TV news cameras were rolling, after all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like Mary Mitchell to explain how this comment was racist, and if she can, that shall say anything you need to know about her own racist views towards whites.
NEWSFLASH!...Chicago Police Supt. Jody Weis is under fire for his ineptitude for mishandling the shooting that took place at the Taste of Chicago during the night of the fireworks last Thursday....This blows my mind. There have been countless if not record book; shootings in minority communities since April. I'm curious as to why he has not come under "fire" during these prior events but when hundreds of white suburban families and tourists lives are threatened in the city of Chicago, everyone is up in arms and demanding "action". It makes me wonder~
Um...Mary ? what color were all the cops ?
Mary
Do you attend Jeremiah Wright's church too?
Uhhh.... this writer IS intended to be deciphered as writing comedy and/or satire, right?
I sure hope so.
If not, the inanity level is sky-high and the illogic and self-centeredness is nearly overwhelming.
I too wonder why you feel the need to inject racism into so many places that it doesn't belong? I am also wondering why Jackson and Sharpton did not drop everything to address this very serious problem that threatens national security.
Ms Mitchell, I suggest you listen to another real Black pastor, Tony Evans. From all the times I have listened to him I doubt you would like him very well because he does not chose to use the race card everything something does not seem right.
It does appear to me that you chose to make victims where there are no victims.
BTW, when you see either Sharpton or Jackson, ask them why they have never apologized to the Dunk University Lacrosse Team when they wanted to lynch the team for a rape that never occurred. They sure were there when Imus make a verbal comment that did no real damage to anyone but they are no where to be found when a Black Woman screamed rape and cost untold grief to a nation which cost several people millions of dollars, a DA his job and law career and who knows what else but shhhhh....lets not talk about THAT now...
I also wonder, if a White reporter had made the same statements you just made if these men were Black, would you be one of the many I am sure would be screaming that he lose his job?
Ummm I wonder what YOU said before and after that fiscal!
Mary, Get real. The courts and jails are clogged as it is. If no one wants to press charges, that's the end of the situation. We are getting too sensitive in this country over trivial matters.
Mary:
I completely agree with your opinion. We can't catch a break these days.
Sincerely,
O.J.
So one annecdotal event can be employed to extrapolate an entire trend?
I guess if you want to find "racism" hidden under every tree & stone you will find it. It must be nice to be you...how long have you been intimidated by white males?
Mary the story and the comments posted after are just an example of how race, racism and people of color are handled today. As a person of color we have been made to feel guilty or playin victim if we mention anything about racism as if it just disappeared and is never to be mentioned. If I had the history of violence and hatred that this country and some of the people in it have I would love for it to be that way as well. Its 2008 and we still have people of color being arrested and turning up dead in police stations. People of color are the overwhelming ones being exonerated of crimes they never committed and if we bring up race as a factor of that are we race baiting. Facts are facts, I have lived in a very diverse mixture of race and social class. Racism is alive and well, its just played differently today than in the past but trust me, its there and I can prove it. I just hope that we have a new generation of Mary Mitchell's to come along and give my people a voice and a forum.
People who think that racism doesnt exist or Mary Mitchell is causing "racism" are out of their minds.She is a great journalist maybe the jerks who cant see that will someday see they are part of the problem.Racism and poverty causes increases in crime so what's happening now is just natural progression when warmongers,violencemongers are on the radio/TV everyday trying to make excuses and keep others at each others throats while they rob us blind.The racists will never admit they are the biggest part of the problem and their behaviors have spiraled into affecting their own families.I live in the city and what Ms.Mitchell is talking about is TRUE,I have seen it too many times,in America violence is as american as apple pie.Blacks didnt invent lynching,murders and things like the mafia,in fact the modern day gangbangers(black and white) are emulating the mafia.(how quick they forget)So you clowns that are blaming Ms.Mitchell for pointing out Obvious truths should read your history books and realize that the examples you have set for young people black and white is the real reason we still have racism and a tremendous increase in crime,you just didnt know how much it would affect YOUR whole family.Ms.Mitchell I believe is trying to help solve these problems.Thats more then I can say for those who want the Status Quo to still be in effect.If you will look in the mirror I am sure you will find the problem is looking right back at you!
Welcome to White Chicago, where the police actually serve and protect members of the European persuasion. While those of us that reside in Black Chicago live in a police state where serve and protect means that police can serve up all of the beatings, illegal searches, false arrests, and "justified" killings of our Black citizens, while protecting them from their constitutional rights.
After seeing how Tony Rezko was "connected" to all races in IL, I think its fair to say that corruption is prevalent in all races in Chicago and the entire state. Chicago - the town that networks!!
Mary, I guess you have to be a minority to understand. So many people (white) are going to fight you on this, I'm not. Our people get arrested for anything. As a matter of fact. Yesterday on 51st and Racine, Two black guys were waiting on the bus stop. I was in my car at the light. I saw a unmarked car speed up very fast against the curb, on purpose, then splash the two (black) men with water. The two men got pissed off and started screaming at the police car. The police car pulled a u-turn, then got out the car like they were gang bangers or something. I drove off (my light turned green). I'm not sure if they went to jail, but more than likely they did. Nothing will ever change until white people start investigating this, instead of arguing it. Why can't white people just listen. If you don't understand, try. If you don't believe it, move over here. We all know that's not going to happen though. We only been talking about it for over 400 years.
Nick
Now, now. Don't be too tuff on Mary. She's just chosen a 'different standard' for her reporting -- an inferior one. Why should she 'get the facts' surrounding the altercation when she can just invent them? Her 'interpretations' of life are always interesting. Just don't call them journalistic.
African-American? Mary, were you born in Africa? Did you immigrate from Africa? Were your parents born in Africa? How far back would you have to go to find a relative that was actually born in Africa? The constant race baiting will never end with the XXX-American identification. You certainly didn't describe either of the two supposed "combatants" as Irish-American vs. Italian-American now did you? Maybe Polish-American vs. Turkish-American or French-American vs. German-American. Since many people, including myself, have come to the conclusion that according to scientific data, mankind most likely originated in Africa or the land mass on this planet now called Africa, heck we're all African-Americans no matter what color our skin happens to be. Get over yourself and just be an American, maybe people will start treating you differently when you do!
Mary:
Most of the people that have commented are idiots.
Keep doing what you do best.
MK
I was thinking what your response to the Rev. Jesse Jackson wanting to cut the throat of another black man should result in his arrest and can you imagine if it was a white man who said that about the man who is going to bring us change.
So white men get off for a shouting match with no arrest.
What about white women who serve farcically brief 3 months in mental facilities (and then freed) for shooting their SLEEPING PREACHER husband and yanking the phone out of the wall as they bleed to death? Yes, I'm referring to Mary Winkler.
How about this for unequal justice:
Then of course there's OJ. If this is what you call oppression of blacks and women, GIVE ME SOME OF THAT OPPRESSION!
LOL LOL LOL WHAT. A. JOKE.
The facts are 84% of serial killers are white,there are more whites on welfare,more whites commit crimes and are never prosecuted or convicted,whites voted overwhelmingly for Bush who is morally corrupt and inept how can they act morally superior,how can they talk they also when they kept their fellow americans as slaves ,gave the native americans countless nasty diseases and lied to them time and time again,now tell me again why they think they are better then minorities?Get a grip, read your history books in case you forgot they have made internet pedophilia a artform.You can fight moronic racists simply by stating the truths.Keep fighting the good fight Ms.Mitchell they want you to sell out,They will attack you like they cowardly did Dr.Martin luther King jr.By the way just ask any native american what they think of caucasians they will truthfully tell you "Paleface speaks with forked tongue"that still applies today for the majority of them,the spins and reverse psychology they use is played out,they are a direct cause of the upsurge in crime with their bad domestic policies and continued racism toward their fellow man,they just are too ignorant to realize they are also making the world a worse place for their own kids and grandkids,they just have a kill the messenger mentality that wont quit. .....peace
the key thing here is that one of them didn't pull out a .38 caliber and shoot the other one...funny how that tends to diffuse things.
Address racial tention in Chicago
People are entile to their opinion. Race in Chicago Police dept has not being address. Look at the rank system within the Dept.How many minority are their in sergeant, investgator , and other positions according to rank in the dept. Take looking at how many minorities who are sueing the City of Chicago for abuse.
African American are being treated as thou we live in China. Massive curfew on Chicago citizens only in certain areas.Where are the jobs and programs for families. I am a female who has being stopped and harass as thou I was a criminal. It not only happens to males but female also. Some officers will let know this is their city. No wonder Burliss over years torture was able toget away wit it.
The oympic black male whose abused at the hand of CPD on the north side. People need to stop buring their head in the sand. We are dealing with God fearing people. Race is a a issue not being address.
Just look at the Ryan Harris death and how the family was attack. Do you think any one is going to come forward and said anything negative against CPD? Citizens are afraid of the violence but also the police because they have a badge. They can and will get away with racial profling and harrasment because they are the law. They own the court system.
Look at the school system and how money is giving to certain area. Why do Chicago has the highest taxes in the nation. The city found millions of dollars for the Olympics but what about education. Why would city cut cease fire funding if you are concern about crime?
(REVISED - removed names of individual posters)
Mary, I'm sure the negative posters calling you a race-baiter do not live in neighborhoods where they could frequently witness the disparity of arrests in primarily so-called "Black" residential areas for similar crimes committed by Whites. Many of them read your posting but obviously don't read the statistics that evidence the harshest punishments for similar crimes are always for "Blacks", than "Hispanics/Latinos". I ask those so-called "Whites" to consider the situation again had race not been mentioned at all. What would your argument be? There is always a serious denial on the part of most "White" people about the disparity of pushishments against "people of color". Yes, we are all Africans. But, how many "White" posters on this page would accept and acknowledge that? Do you really think they go home and tell their family and children that we all come from the same family that originated in Africa?! *blank stare* You don't have to be a minority to understand. You just don't get it until you witness it consistently-but then again-some "White" people will rationalize the police decision "because their Black". Makes me wonder too. The Dallas posting is irrelevant and the writer needs their own blog. And, lastly why is it some think "Black" people are 'the only people who black people are seemingly apathetic about jurisprudence and law enforcement'? Were the "Smartest Guys in the Room" at Enron apathetic about jurisprudence and law enforcement? Wasn't Bush apathetic and jurisprudent about law enforcement when he lied about the war? Aren't those committing property crime, economic crime, and other corporate crimes like environmental and health and safety law violations also apathetic about jurisprudence and law enforcment? *rolling eyes*
Wowsers... we have a LONG way to go.
I live in the Netherlands, but am an African American. When I read of accounts like the one between the two persons fighting, I recall many instances when I lived in Chicago, where the police came upon such a scene, and when it was between Blacks, they reacted in a different way. The police came in, many times with drawn guns, and usually took both perpetrators away before getting to the bottome of the situation. It would be great if all such altercations ended as the first one mentioned did. Maybe Blacks wouldn't feel intimidated when police came onto the scene. Are our police, both Black and White, missing something at the police academy? Are they being taught how to handle people in potential volatile situations? Many times, situations can be settled when everyone, including the police keep a cool head, and don't excalate the situation by brandishing their weapons, or talking down to the parties involved. Finally, in the Netherlands where I live, when the police pull you over for any reason, they are generally polite, and allow you time to argue your case calmly, no matter what color you are. There is generally respect for the police, and citizens aren't afraid that they will be hauled to jail or shot just because of their race. Mary, you are just the messenger, and I applaud you for bringing these injustices to the front. Keep up the good, difficult work!
That's nothing compared to the hell my family, which is black, is going through where white cook county correctional officer has threatened us, put out a hit on us and no one, police, the sheriff's department, not even the media will do anything to help once they find out who the officer involved is.
The courts won't do a thing because the cook county states attorney refuses to prosecute - not because there's no proof of a crime occuring, because this officer admits to EVERYTHING she does, but because once anything gets to cook county, she's got connections that make her untouchable.
But if we were the ones doing this to her, you'd have heard about it, and we'd have been in jail a LONG time ago.
what this incidend illustrates to me is that cops are the ones who decide when a crime has been committed. If the cops had arrested and booked these two white men it would mean that they would have been entered into the criminal justice "system". Thus, they would have been added to the "white crime statistics" rate. Had they been black guys or hispanics, I doubt the cops would have hesitated to arrest somebody for something. Thus the blacks or hispanics would have been added to their respective crime statistics rates. So when I hear about black crime stats vs. white crime stats I always take into account that it is the cops (of whatever race) who are the first deciders if a crime has been committed and who to send through the system in the first place. Maybe these cops simply didn't want two otherwise upstanding white yuppies to get a police record. The same courtesy is usually not provided to non blacks. It's simple, really.
Blacks represent about 12% of the population, but commit about 70% of all violent crime. An FBI survey of crime stats says that about 40,000 white women are raped by black men every year, while virtually ZERO black women are raped by white men. Blacks are shooting and stabbing, robbing and raping whites and each other at horrendous levels on a daily basis. And you expect white people to feel guilty because the cops didn't arrest two white guys who got into a fistfight? You're psychotic.
Mary,
Why are African Americans MARCHING against the shootings in our neighborhoods? These are OUR kids, cousins, nieces/nephews. How are you going to march in the street and then go home and look the evil in the face as if it's not there. WE KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE!!!!!!! We see them doing their dirt day in and out. We hear about them from our kids. Crack cocaine, Gangs , strippers, have created the walking dead; people without souls. They worship the NEW golden calf; MONEY. They don't hear God and they definitely aren't listening to church folks walking up and down the street with a minister. African Americans don't want peace because they want 'things' too bad. These same African Americans are not willing to get involved because 'that's the hood, I went to school and work too hard to get out of the hood', and that same 'hood' comes to visit them in their nice house for parties, sporting events, and holidays. African Americans in the days of Martin and Malcolm were willing to die or kill for peace; not these kids. Not these people. African Americans know and have always known; some African Americans ARE n******s!!!! Every race has people of their OWN ethnicity that are vile, ignorant, and evil; they distance themselves from being compared to or associated with their respective subrace. These are individuals who think it's cool or fun to be able to instill fear into others. The only way to deal with them is to lock them up or kill them all. I really don't care how many 'whites' get away with the 'same crimes' that have some African Americans locked-up. Whites are not the majority in my community. When I get home from work, I want peace. Your own people disrupt that peace more than a subrace representative from a different race. Whites are not the helping kind unless it's help yourself to that land those Indians have, or help yourself to some slave sex, or help yourself to hardworking people's money, or help yourself to a hotdog at the next lynching; forget reasoning with them. America is hated all over the world, who runs America???? I don't care about White America to be honest. I do care about where I have to lay my head down, or where my family has to walk to school/work/the store, every day. With the gun laws being overturned, That can be controlled by REAL African Americans. It's better to die free than live in bondage......
HeeMan
That's not unequal justice. That's some bs from some riled up black women, who figured since they can't sleep with married (white) men, who don't want you, you'll insinuate something racist to alleviate being scorned. I'm black, and when I was a teen, some white police officers told me to "go home" that I was too young to be at disco. No arrest, no charges, just go home.
WOW.
I didn't know some people's paranoia and mistrust of Police could actually reach levels of a psychotic fixated obsession.
So since it WASN'T two Black drivers getting arrested for their altercation, you use the fact that it WAS two White driver's who didn't? Frustrating how some people can make generalized conclusions about what they "witnessed" and how the Police should handle certain situations, without knowing all the elements of a MANDATORY arrest.
Mary, You ask for an explanation as to why the incident WASN'T Unequal Justice, so based on the given info, I will answer by tearing the writer's version to shreds, point by point:
1. As stated, there was sufficient to more than necessary Police presence on scene. So we can safely assume the first responding unit, seeing two White males, didn't give a disregard to other responding backup units.
2. "Explorer is placed in Cuffs"
* So there goes your notion of preferential treatment. A White man was placed in handcuffs. Seems the Police were fully prepared to
arrest him if needed. Unless you think maybe it was just for show since some Black Witnesses were watching.
3. "Shouldn’t this guy remain on the scene, or be escorted to the police station?"
* As long as he (the Victim in the writer's words) had a Valid Driver's License, Insurance, was not injured, and did not wish to Press Charges for Battery, the answer is NO.
4. "Don’t the cops need to write up some kind of report or dispense some tickets for traffic violations? (Obstructing traffic, for starters.)"
* If either party or vehicle were invalid, uncooperative, caused an accident, holding contraband/weapon, injured, or pressing
charges, then YES a Report and/or tickets would be necessary. Otherwise, NO.
5. "Disorderly conduct or assault? What about their both creating a dangerous situation on the street that could have caused an
accident?"
* A. Disorderly Conduct is the absolute lowest type of arrest-able Offense.
Illinois Statute - A person commits Disorderly Conduct when he knowingly: Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to alarm or
disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace.
Was the professional African American Woman truly alarmed or disturbed by the events? How so? Was she fearful she herself would
get hurt? Was she unable to get away from the situation? Did she miss her bus because of it? Or could it be that she was just curious and intrigued by all the commotion?
B. Assault applies when a Victim is verbally threatened and in fear of receiving a Battery (Not applicable in this situation) and requires a VICTIM to press charges. A WITNESS CANNOT.
C. The highest Offence they could both be charged with is Reckless Conduct.
Illinois Statute - A person who causes bodily harm to or endangers the bodily safety of an individual by any means, commits reckless conduct if he or she performs recklessly the acts that cause the harm or endanger SAFETY, whether they otherwise are lawful or unlawful.
(In this case the two men's actions could be considered reckless in that it endangered the safety of other driver's on the road. Obviously none of them felt a need to exit their vehicles and have the two arrested.
6. "I have since learned that citizens have the right to press charges in these kinds of situations. Of course, the officer did not offer this suggestion."
* No, Of course he didn't. Asking a Witness of a petty Misdemeanor Offense to press charges would be a waste of the Officer's/Police
Department's time and the city/taxpayer's money. They could be be out answering other 911 calls (some of which actually do require
a Report or Arrest to be made) or doing pro-active Police work to prevent more serious crimes. (i.e. Robbery, Burglary, Vehicle Theft, Drug Dealing, etc.)
I do have a question for the professional African-American woman who wanted to press charges against the two White men, if she'd known she could have.
Is she aware this would require her to go to court on a regular business day and most likely miss work? Would she actually be willing to go to court, for a trivial Misdemeanor Offense that she had no personal involvement with and had no direct impact on her life? If so, I certainly hope it would be out of an unbiased compelling urge as a concerned citizen and Not because both parties were about to get off because they were White.
I also hope she would have been as adamant that the Police issue tickets and or make an arrest if both parties were Black.
Otherwise that would be, well... racist.
As a White Officer myself I openly admit, most of my arrests are of African Americans. This is because the area I work on midnights is composed almost entirely of that specific race and they are most of who I come into contact with so I don't apologize for this fact.
I can also say with absolute conviction that I've never stopped, questioned, or arrested anyone simply because they were Black. In the rare instances I do see a White person, wouldn't it also be racial profiling if I were to stop them only on the grounds that they were a White person in a Black neighborhood? You bet it would. Most of the White people I come across are in that neighborhood for one of two reasons: They're lost and trying to get back to the expressway, or buying CRACK. Guess what. When I got Probable Cause, I arrest the White crack-heads just like I do the Black ones.
Not every situation (Like the one written about) requires the Police to take action, even when I would be well within my authority to do so.
Here's just one example with which I could fill a book:
Answer a call of two Black males fighting in middle of street. Both still fighting as we pulled up and both were immediately cuffed and patted down. Name Checks were clear of Wants/Warrants. Both were not hurt and refused an ambulance. Found out they were brothers and that it was one's Birthday that day. I confirmed this from his State ID. They'd started fighting because B-Day boy had
"torn up" the others house over some intoxicated nonsense or other. His brother wanted him arrested for Damage to Property. I explained that he had the right to press charges and that I'd proceed with the arrest, but asked him if he really wanted his brother locked up on his Birthday. After a few minutes thinking about it, he decided NOT to press charges. I actually got both of them to shake hands and B-Day Boy apologized.
Could I have arrested one or both for Domestic Battery, Reckless Conduct, Public Intoxication, or Damage to Property? Yes. Did I? No.
Instead of wasting an hour and a half at the station on a Misdemeanor arrest, my partner and I made both of them agree not to make contact with one another for 24 hours, and then gave B-Day boy a ride home. After dropping him off we were flagged down by a Black male who was just robbed at gun-point by another Black male. We drove around the area with the victim and found suspect matching his description a few blocks away. Chased him, caught him, recovered a loaded handgun and victim's property. Victim ID'd Offender and pressed charges. Offender (Already Convicted Felon on Parole) taken into Custody and Felony Charges Approved.
I guess Mary and the professional African-American woman would question whether I would have looked for and chased the Offender if he were described by the Black Victim as a White Male?
MY ANSWER IS, OF COURSE I WOULD HAVE.
I also would have used my weapon to defend myself if a White Offender pointed the gun at me or someone else. As hard as it may be for you to understand, bullets don't care what color you are, and neither do the Police.
The fact that most violent crime takes place in lower economic areas many of which are made up of minorities, is not the Police Department's fault. Citizen's want the Police to reduce Crime in these areas but then want to shout, "Racial Profiling! Police Brutality!" when we attempt to do so.
To Mary Mitchell, I guess I owe you a Thank You. At first I was angry over your putting this ridiculous and absurd story on your blog. As I finish typing this, I realize just how dangerous the situation is becoming and can use my retort to this story as a forewarning/plea to those who read it.
Negative attitudes twords the Police is something most Officers (White, Brown, Black, whatever) attempt to keep our heads above, but when it becomes widespread to the point of stories like this appearing on Major Newspaper blogs, that means things are in pretty bad shape. I mean bad for the public. Are people aware of the existing morale problems within CPD? Some Officers are too fearful for their own livelihood (sued or fired) or just fed up with negative public opinion (by those who needs us the most), that they've stopped caring or trying all together.
I've heard some Officer's say that they don't care whether the Public likes us or not. I believe in most cases that's just a defense mechanism. I think deep down, MOST Officers would have never accepted their badge if they didn't have an inherent desire to do good and protect society. How could one have that desire without any concern over that society's perception of them? The answer is that at some point it becomes lost or broken.
We are after all a human entity. Question, accuse, attack, any group of people to a certain point, and they will become disgruntled, apathetic, and shut down. That or they'll become lawless and uncontrollable, which is what we're often being accused of already.
I've actually heard some Officer's say, "They don't want our help, so screw 'em. It ain't worth me or my family. I'll only write paper or make arrests when absolutley necessary. Answer my calls and that's it. I ain't doin nuthin else."
Are you aware that there's nothing anyone can do to stop them from adopting that type of work ethic? Not our bosses, Not the Superintendent, Not even the Mayor. It's not really that hard to do the bare minimum and stay under the radar. Our only requirements are that we answer 911 calls, and stop for crimes we witness first-hand. Quotas are illegal, so we can't be forced to perform traffic
stops, make pro-active arrests, disperse gang/drug loiterers, look to take guns off the street, etc.
Please understand that you can't have it both ways. Please stop pointing your misdirected frustrations and anger at the Police Dept. Please decide which you want. Either let us do our job and take care of the bad guys (White, Brown, Black, Whatever) or let them have the City.
To any professional, hardworking, taxpaying citizens who look at the Police as the enemy,
I will still respond and do my job when dispatched to your call. Just know that I can smell your disdain, and consider you as much a part of the problem as I do the criminals.
A disgusted yet still concerned Chicago Police Officer
Justice is unequal and the inequalities are largely based upon race. This is factual. Some may illogically believe that this assertion is racist; however, the truth is that it is accurate. The truth does hurt, but it is necssary if we are to change to become a better society for all.
Did the people involved get loud or ignorant with the Police-most of the time that is the determining factor in an arrest. If 2 people -no matter what race-get into an argument -even if spit was exchanged- and they decided not to press changes-possibly due to the fact both would have went to jail- where is the race issue. I agree with the other piost- what color were the officers/witnesses? I have seen altercations between different races end of the same way. this includes domestic disputes-unless there is visable damage if they decide not to press charges so be it. The Officers leave no harm no foul. I wish we were more concerned about the child killers on the loose or even the wave of summer violance in Chicago.
I KNOW you all that brought up O.J. ain't talking!! Unless you want me to go there with the DECADES of the lynchings/family picnics/barbecues or the MANY white male serial killers you jizzholes glorify with your SICK fascination that goes TRIPLE for the Duke and Jenna 6 cases. I didn't hear anyone apologize to Kobe Bryant when some nasty,white,LYING skank says he raped her or to the Scottsboro boys or to the boys from the Central Park case who spent 13 years in prison for NOTHING. Or the white people who use the old standby 'a black man did it' to get away with YOUR crimes that you'd eeven actually acknowledge you ever commit hmmmmm let's ask Kathleen Scavo and Stacy Peterson if white males ever commit any crimes. And to suepeace you are not only dumb as all get out but full of it and I suppose you think Barack Obama is sending himself the death threats too right,right?!!
I heard all the above. Two things I have had on my mind for quite awhile 1: the perceived rise in violence in the black community and 2: the reason for some of that violence. A brother recently explained it thusly: "people are coming from the projects( displaced is too clinical a discription,kicked, shoved,and thrown out are too nice)some of them bring the same bs they had back in the old hood." 2: some try to change,but need a opportunity. There was an $8-10 billion opportunity that was squandered by all involved.No one from the hood,that I have heard of, received any jobs or money as part of this massive housing shift.There was lots of so called job-training, lots and lots of time wasting training but no jobs to go along with all that money passing thru the hands of the connected.No one has brought any of this to lite. Why??