Mary Mitchell

Just curious, how does a middle class family afford a nanny? You have to admit there is an almost comical ironic aspect to your friend's plight. Somebody that won't hire a person based on the color of thier skin is a racist. In the owner of a business nade those comments they'd be boycotted, sued and probably shut down, and rightfully so. Here you have a racist complaining that her prospective employees are just as racist as she is. I think that's hilarious!

Sorry, but this is old news to me. I am Black, but I'm of Jamaican descent. As a child my parents always told me that America's race problem was primarily "culture, not color". Many people from parts of Asia are brown or black skinned but seem to assimilate with Americans with no problem. Also, the fact that Blacks from African countries immigrate here and become high acheivers is common knowledge (Obama). So its not the color that caused those White and Euro nannies to pass, its the culture they associate with African-Americans. African-American cultural values, as transmitted across the globe by BET, MTV, Magazines, and books are almost exclusively devoid of any redeeming social value. The emphasis on sports over grades in school, 80% of children born out of wedlock, violent and booty-shaking rap videos, the tv show COPS, etc. None of this is positive and is always associated with African-Americans. You were on the right track a few weeks ago about the marriage issue. Now you just need to change the other things I mentioned and who knows, in two or three generations the term "African-American" may be associated with high academic acheivement, strong intact families and cultural upward mobility. I'd wager that at that time nannies from all over the world would be breaking down doors to work for people like that.

I take offense at the post from "I am Black, but I'm of Jamaican descent." That sterotypical comment is precisely one of the main reasons why African-Americans are viewed negatively in some instances throughout the globe. To assume that African-Americans are the only "booty shakers" and criminals, just because of what is shown on television,is ignorant, to say the least. I have seen Jamaican videos where the women are far more raunchier in their girating and booty shaking antics before the camera. I've seen Jamaicans come into this country committing crimes with drug peddling and other scams. I would never suggest that all Jamaicans are less cultured because some Jamaicans have criminal tendencies. The television show Cops shows many whites and Mexicans who are arrested for everything from domestic violence, to dui, even armed robbery. Does the person who posted negative comments about African-Americans even mention this fact? Yes, African-Americans, like every other race and culture, have to become accountable and rectify the trash in our own backyards. Yes, African-Americans should revisit the lessons learned in our troubled past in this country. What we do not have to do is let yet another person who somehow feels that they are better or "more cultured" because they are African but not born in America. How did most African Jamaicans get to Jamaican in the first place? Many of us share a past tainted with slavery. Instead of tearing each other down, we should all find common ground, as human beings first, in order to help solve the problems that plague us all. Why are Jamaicans leaving their Jamaica for places such as Canada, Europe, America? If you're living in a glass house, don't throw no stones.

Aldwin is unfortunately typical of blacks of Caribbean origin - they are so blind-sided by the racism and prejudice in this society, that they do everything they can to disassociate themselves from African-Americans. No Aldwin, your parents lied to you - it's not "culture", it's your black skin, and no matter how you put down Americans who share your skin color, you will not magically become white.
Besides, everybody "knows" that Jamaicans smoke ganga all day, don't know what a comb is, and can't seem to find the deodorant shelf at the drugstore. That's what we know about your culture from MTV, BET, magazines, and books. Bet you don't like that, do you? Everything you say about African-Americans is said about you behind your back. Immigrants who are happy to enjoy the benefits of American society, but never put their lives on the line in the struggle for civil rights have got a lot of nerve criticizing African-Americans about anything.(And BTW, Obama is not an immigrant. If he were, we wouldn't be talking about him running for President. His father was the immigrant, and he high-tailed it back to Kenya.)
One big difference between the NY Times article and Mary Mitchell's: when Mary reports what her friend says about black nannies, it's anecdotal. The Times reporter takes anecdotal material and turns it into universal truth. One person's experience, or ten, or even twenty, should not be used to judge millions. That said, I wonder why Mary's friend (the one who didn't like her nanny smoking, or letting the kids watch TV, or leaving dirty dishes in the sink) didn't fire her "sub-standard" help? Instead the woman fired her, by not showing up.
If a white person does a lousy job, she's a bad employee. If a black person does a lousy job, suddenly ALL black people are at fault.

this is halarious. who really sympathises with people who cant afford nannies? People with a lot of money cant possibly be oppressed; money alleviates racism.

The problem of which you speak is a symptom of the Entitlement Generation. Its loosely defined as those blacks who think they are owed something for some reason.

My guess is that they treat their nannies like sub-humans, so the nannies know better than to go work for them.

My advice: drop this debate and move onto the important topics of the day: why and how the alderman system is at the expense of blacks, and why black voters keep getting suckered by their politicians.

My mother was a neighborhood Mom with a school-aged child who looked after the children of working parents. I can remember children being dropped off at 7 a.m. and picked up at 7 p.m. She charged a modest fee for each child and prepared morning and evening meals. On those occasions when she did part time evening work, she would get a neighbor to stay with me until she got off. My dad was in the home but he worked the 3-11 shift at the Post Office and didn't arrive until midnight. I can think of countless mothers who found neighborhood baby sitters to take care of their children and thank goodness for those who provided quality service. tDuring those times it truly took a village to raise a child. I realize that times have changed making it more difficult to find responsible people to care for and nurture the young, but it can be equally disastrous to invite a stranger to come into the home for child care. Child care is a difficult issue that ultimately must be met by all community stakeholders including parents, employers, and both public, and private institutions.

Maybe the problem isn't of color- why does any family need a 'nanny'? How did human civilization survive thousands of years without 'nannies'? I understand that parents need an adult supervisor for children while they work. Most families are two-income now. But there is something aristocratic about even the word 'nanny'. Raise your children yourself. A family raises a child together- grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins. You need to hire someone to watch your children? Find a neighborhood friend who needs extra cash. Hiring an adult from an 'agency' is something that Infiniti-driving, suburban upper-class people can afford. The rest of us make due and raise good children. Regardless of color. It's about class, not race.

I'm black, but I'm Jamaican. Does he forget that Jamaicans are of African origin. Last time I checked, Jamaica was a poor third-world country. The poorest African-Americans in this country enjoy a higher standard of living than any Caribbean black person. Since he is black but Jamaican, why haven't they improved the quality of life in their own poor third-world country??

"Since he is black but Jamaican, why haven't they improved the quality of life in their own poor third-world country??"
--------------------
Above blogger the Jamacian can say why have african Americans in the land of the free, not improved their quality of life here?? They can also show crime stats and show the neighborhhods that are destroyed by African Americans. Don't throw stones buddy

Your "friend" sounds like what older people would call "an educated fool." After just one negative experience years ago for her to conclude that all inner city African American women looking for work as a nanny don't have the same integrity and committment to right living as other cultures is full of self-hatred and elitism. It's ridiculous to assume that every African American nanny looking for work even came from the inner city. She probably is a product of the inner city herself and running from herself. Why didn't she correct the nanny if she wasn't doing the job properly and why would her teenagers still need a nanny if she had such a committment to "right-living." How about sacrificing about 12-14 hours of the day the Lord gave you and use them to raise your own children. But that would prevent her from making the extra money and take away the advantage she has over all the "inner city African Americans she concludes are so uncommitted to right living. Your friend needs to invest in a mirror.

This issue of intra-race prejudice extends way, way, way beyond the nanny debate.

I've worked in corporate environments my entire career. The one thing that I have always noticed is black men and women who reach "the top" purposely do not hire or promote African Americans for the very same reason African Americans do not want to work as nannies in black homes.

When I attend social and business functions, I've noticed of late well known successful African American women snub other African American women who have not made it into their clique. No acknowledgement of our presence; no friendly salutations. I go to thes events and spend my time mingling, social networking and making new friends amongst the white women and other women of color in attendance at these events and gatherings.

If those of us moving up the ladder of success now had to depend on black folks that have made it (or those that have always been "in the circle/clique), then we'd starve. They have to build more housing projects.

In my career, all of my assistance and mentoring has come from whites - both male and female. Unless you're in the Links or Jack & Jill or a fraternity brother/sorority sister, upper-class blacks folks don't even have a hand shake or a smile for you, until you're "bigger" than they are. Just ask Oprah. Those same blacks gave her the cold sholder big time in the eighties, some said nasty things about her in public even. And now, every other editorial from the Indigo publisher is "how come Oprah doesn't hang out with Chicago black folks?".

Upper class black folks have a HUGE inferiority complez. You haqve to be bigger than life to get respect and the time of day from them. Black women want Tiger Woods' wife (who came here as a nanny)in their home. Hey, it's a status symbol for them. After all we raised enough of theirs, now let them raise ours, I suppose. These top of the heap black folks are not incensed by racism-they're angry that they cannot buy their way out of being black. No matter what, they are viewed in same regard as the very blacks that they deride and despise.

WE're losing the RACE because we don't connect. I might not have the answer to your problem but perhaps I can connect you to someone who does. That's what networking is all about. What these upper black women are finding out is their white friends/neighbors cannot resolve the smudge of individual racism that will follow them to the grave, and they are so busy plottng an environment where they are "the only one" that they systimatically remove any community spport system that existed.

Mary this was very interesting, but it seems that since we have became African- American, some of us think that we are better than those of us who still know that no matter how high you go, in the U.S.A, you are still treated like the low, ask Bill Cosby, they won't let him bUY NBC AND IT WAS FOR SALE!!

There's more important things that's harming us as a people. Why is it that Sen. Obama is silent about the torture of 100+ Afican- American men?, And why won't he ask for a federal investigation in to the cover-up by Mayor Daley and Cook County States Atty. Devine of these tortures that was done by Jon Burge and other Chicago Police officers?

Wallace" Gator" Bradley

Ann Brown and lindasue your comments hit the point there is not much more I can add but just keep up the good work.

anonymous wrote:

"Above blogger the Jamacian can say why have african Americans in the land of the free, not improved their quality of life here?? They can also show crime stats and show the neighborhhods that are destroyed by African Americans. Don't throw stones buddy"

"Buddy"..the truth is the truth. Jamaica is a third-world country just as other Caribbean countries are ( Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, ). Why do people from these countries choose to stay in the USA illegaly ? You know the answer to that one!

I think Aldwin is right on the money. I am white and know plenty of racist whites, but not one that is racist because of skin color. White racism is definitely cultural. In fact, it is mainly because we know black people are just as capable as we are of doing well in school, holding down a job, being responsible for their children, maintaining their homes, etc. that we become so frustrated that, as a group, black people won't just put their own house in order and stop blaming white people for their plight. It seems they are always looking for people from outside of their community (usually the government) to step in and "fix" their situation.

Now, before you come at me with examples of white supremacists, I know white people who truly believe they are genetically superior exist because I have seen them on TV. I have never met one in real life. They definitely are few and far between. They are not who you are fighting against. They are considered idiots even among whites who are culturally racist.

I'm not posting this to defend "cultural racism". I'm posting it because I think it's important to understand what your fighting against if you ever hope to win.

anonymous wrote:

"Above blogger the Jamacian can say why have african Americans in the land of the free, not improved their quality of life here?? They can also show crime stats and show the neighborhhods that are destroyed by African Americans. Don't throw stones buddy"

"Buddy"..the truth is the truth. Jamaica is a third-world country just as other Caribbean countries are ( Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, ). Why do people from these countries choose to stay in the USA illegaly ? You know the answer to that one!

I see a great opportunity here. If affluent blacks cannot seem to find adequate black female nannies, maybe they could hire black males to do the work instead. There must be plenty of black men who need the money.

Yes it is true that many of us inner-city poor blacks were raised incorrectly, but there may be a chance that one of us would do the job right. Your friend isn't going to find that out by hiding behind the gates of her impenetrable island fortress in the suburbs. She might have to actually (ghasp) develop relationships with blacks who may not usually be in her "league".

Blacks have a significant competitive advantage when it comes to hiring blacks. Unlike individuals of other races who receive all of their information about blacks from BET (White Entertainment Television), the NFL, and Fox News, we were born black, so we know that the stereotypes about us are false.

I have never been accused or convicted of any crime, I am respectful and I am hard working. So I know that there must be at least one non-affluent black who is employable, even if it's just me.

"African-American cultural values, as transmitted across the globe by BET, MTV, Magazines, and books are almost exclusively devoid of any redeeming social value. The emphasis on sports over grades in school, 80% of children born out of wedlock, violent and booty-shaking rap videos, the tv show COPS, etc. None of this is positive and is always associated with African-Americans."
-Aldwin

When a white man buys season tickets to see the Lakers, he's not going there to see Kobe Bryant play the violin or re-program the International Space Station. Black kids focus on sports because they want to be rich. BET shows booty-shakin videos because that's what the viewers want too see.

"Also, the fact that Blacks from African countries immigrate here and become high acheivers is common knowledge (Obama)"

-Aldwin

That's more of a discredit to America itself than it is to African Americans.

The Crown Heights incidents of the 90's really woke some West-Indians up to he racial realities of America. AND by-the-way I lived in Jamaica (Kingston/Stony Hill) for two years and you should hear how the Jamaican upper-middle and upper-class Jamaicans talk about the social pathologies of those in the lower class ghettos of Kingston. They certainly don't connct them to education and upward mobility. Shameless. They sound a lot like ALDWIN.

My wife and I are fortunate. We have an extended family network to depend on.
Mary your friend is a bourgie tight-ass . . .one of the many nouveau-suburbanites who dare to look down from the gilded pedestals and cast judgement and dispersions on EVERY Black pwerson in the city . . .a damn shame.

I beleive that if you have family who could take care of your children do it!!! Pay them or treat them like gold, because now days we cant trust anyone!! (yes some family members are not to be truste) I grew up with baby sitters all my life, My mother was a single woman working 2 jobs to take care of me. I remember babysitters making me eat hot sauce because I sucked my pinky, One would leave me alone in the dark all day. One let her sons beat me up and she would laugh and watch, she would tell my mom I fell alot. I remember others who were soo nice I called them Mommy, I would cry when I would leave. (that is a good sign people, when you child cries when they have to leave). I am not saying taht all nannies or babysitters are evil, but you have to be very careful and listen to your child's body language if they are not verbal or listen to them when they tell you things. I have had babysitters black , white, hispanic and some of the worst were the ones who were the same race as I am.
Trust your instinct, and when you have a great nanny keep her happy, Open communication!!

White girl - you are a bigot, which is different from a racist. You have a stereotypical view of blacks and try to hide it under the hat of cultural differences.The saddest thing is you probably truly believe that you are progressive and embrace diversity. I am white and I know both bigots and racists. I will associate with neither. They sicken me.

Everything said about blacks,underachieving, looking for handouts, raised poorly, etc. can also be said of poverty stricken whites or as they used to be called hillbillies and "white trash."

Anonymous: Poverty and lack of opportunity destroys neighborhoods not skin color. Uptown was a beautiful neighborhood at one time, but became the area where immigrants and American migrants from the south and Appalachia stopped first. When I worked down there in the 70's, there weren't many blacks but there was a ton of crime,a lot of destroyed properties - and a whole lot of white people.

Racism and bigotry are alive and well in the good ol' USA and sadly you can't legislate it away. From cops to politicians, unless the mindset in this country changes dramatically, and people decide they actually want to solve problems instead of just passing a law and moving on, satisfied that you won some more votes and placated the citizens, again, this will never change.

As for the Jamaicans and others, they do what the Protestant Irish did when they came here and saw the Irish Catholics were being denied jobs and discriminated against. They called themselves Scots-Irish thereby distinguishing and distancing themselves from the Catholics. The religious discrimination didn't touch them. For them, it was all good.


Wallace "Gator" Bradley - I ask why no one has tried Burge under the Torture Convention to which we are a signatory. I may be wrong but I don't believe it has a statute of limitations under international law. Make it happen before someone accuses you of waiting for someone to do it for you because you're black.As a matter of fact, approach Obama.

""Even though I am a woman of color, I will not hire an African-American woman to care for my children for the simple fact that I believe there isn't the same integrity and commitment to right living and motherhood among African Americans in the inner city as there is in other cultures," she told me."

This is the most ludicrous, hypocritical comment any black woman could make. This woman should be ashamed of herself. With this attitude, blacks don't need any discrimination or racism from or by other races, they have their own built in system of racism.

Did she stop to think that one bad apple doth not make the whole basket bad? Sure doesn't sound like it. She is doing exactly what blacks accuse whites of doing, judging all by one. Shame, shame shame.

I'm wondering what is the New York Time's obsession with minorities and nannies, especially since they did an almost identical article on Latino nannies a couple of months ago, http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/22/fashion/22workers.html?ex=1319169600&en=3f5a5aebac7601cc&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss. Is this their means to reduce the risk of plagiarism from overworked staff by breaking what should only be one article into two excruciating long ones that have no relevance to 98% of the population and repetitive content, but since they've published them 2 months apart they believe that no one will notice their laziness? Or are they trying trying to enforce a one-two punch stereotype that people of color are both undesirable employers and employees, when the real truth is minority workers hold minority employers to a higher standard than others the same way one expect more of family than strangers.

What EXACTLY is an "African-American"? I reiterate, Africa is a continent with 53 seperate, independent COUNTRIES. So how is it you can be called an "African- American" if you are from Egypt? Morocco? They are not blacks. Nevermind all the Roman influence from biblical times. Or the French.

In my opinion, part of the problem is this frigging political crap of using labels ie: "African-American". Does anyone really know which COUNTRY their ancestors are from on the continent of Afica? People were very nomadic in olden times. Ergo, someone from Morocco could end up somewhere else like South Africa. Does not make them "negro".

All this crap about finding nannies from the Carribean, Jamaica or flaming bumble flock nowhere rather than a "negro" from America is nonsense.

When the "black" community stops the posturing maybe things will change for the better. Maybe when American born "blacks" start caring MORE about what's in this country and not some distant land, then maybe things can change. People like Oprah and Obama make me gag when they talk about all the money and help they want for the "dark" African countries. Charity begins at home. Help your people in THIS country first.

Put the blame where it belongs TODAY. On people like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Oprah and the rest of the hypers. It is politically vogue to tick that box on applications that say "African-American". It is vogue to scream discrimination. Politics keeps people seperated, not color.

I don't care what color you are, just don't use your color (race) as an excuse.

First of all, there are two of us who sign our post as 'john'. Therefore, to distinguish us so you good folks know the difference, I will use a capitol J when I sign on as John. Is that ok with john, let us know?

Ok, about the comments, everybody is right and wrong. Yes, alot of Jamaicans and Africans do come over here and do well because they aren't of what I call 'automatic victims in there mindset'. But yes, there are folks who discriminate due to color. Lets not fool ourselves. ALL races, however. ..... and something I wish all us blog users would discuss---Oprah made a comment the reason she's giving to Africans (charitable givings) rather then African-Americans is because all blacks here want is Ipods and NIKE shoes and what have you. Hey, thats a very strong negative comment towards the African-American community in my thinking, why is everybody and especially all of you guys so hush about it?

John, they remain quiet about Oprah's comments because of her money in my opinion. Oprah also made another rather hateful comment during a recent interview:

"I don't think I have to appease the white people of this country".

I might add her voice was dripping with venom. It is fact that without whites in South Africa, there would not have been as much advancement in agriculture. Let's face it, before many of the white farmers were slaughtered, they provided the majority of the food for the region.

Oprah seems to think she is above reproach. One of the reasons I will no longer watch her.

It is hilarious to note that Oprah's criteria for admission to her school is a family income of no more than $787 a month. In that area, that amount is the very upper class. So she isn't helping the truly poor people.

Anyway back to topic. I think it is very telling when a black woman won't work for a black family. Hmmmm, do you think they know more than the rest of us?

to SaraE: Good point. I even got a better example. I brought it up once and nobody would answer me. Here goes: If a blue-eyed white guy from Namibia or South Africa immigrates to the U.S.A is he thus an African-American? Think about that one. Also, a black man born and raised in France immigrates to the U.S.A, wouldn't he be a European-American?

what a bunch of bleeding heart crap

John and Sara E,
You two can wax philosophical and high five each other all you want about those irrelevant issues. A White immigrant from Africa is White in this country. Period. The Black French-man is just that, Black. The semantics make no difference at all in the reality of the way people are thought of and treated in the United States. Neither one of you seem to be operating from a perspective that would take into consideration the facts as they stand TODAY. SaraE, your Jan 6th post about Oprah's contribution is a total contridiction and seems to explain your views. You need some education. If the criteria for the program is for those of income of NO MORE than $787/mo. all those who you claim are upper class are EXCLUDED. She is offering the school to those who are below that mark. It is called comprehension. There is an underlying trend in this Country that has been growing in the past 5 years that I compare closely to the Holocaust deniers of the middle east and europe. Many Anglos in America would like Blacks to act like Slavery never took place here, like it is a fable that was handed down to us just to explain our lot in life. Slavery was real, and the effects still haunt our community to this very day. Not just in terms of our destroyed family structure, but more importantly in the lingering hatred