Slavery was the black Holocaust, so treat it with the same respect

AMEN Sister, AMEN!!!!!

Hi Mary,

In todays' column you stated:

"It doesn't matter how successful Jewish people are today, the fact is, the Holocaust was an unimaginable tragedy."

True words enough, however comparing slavery in America with the holocaust seems a false analogy.

Your reference to the holocaust vis-a-vis Black slavery is in my mind quite incorrect. Let us not forget that the Jews were slaves thousands of years ago for a long time as well. You should have brought that up, but either did not think about it or chose not to.

That being said, could one state that the slavery that the Jewish people endured strengthened their will and faith? I would suggest yes. Do I dare to make a comparison because I am of a particular race or "color". Of course I do.

I am not necessarily politically correct, but I am fair. If one doesn't become strong inwardly through the most dire circumstances(whether slavery in Egypt or the United States and all in between) one dies. Pure and simple.

I like reading your column and it is always refreshing to hear your point of view, most of the time of which I agree. From this column, none the less, I maintain that the direst of circumstances bring out the best in the terms of survival. It is NOT negative, Mary, it's just what's needed to excel and push to the higher level. I think all peoples or races were slaves somewhere down the line of history. The African-American experience is just the most recent. Welcome to Planet Earth, I guess.

Thanks again, Mary, for your columns, and have a great week.

Ken Schabelski

It's abouttime someone said it. I've gotten sick and tired of hearing about all of the unimaginable things that happened to the Jews and blacks are supposed to just forget their own plight. My hat's off to you Mary Mitchell and the editor of the Suntimes for having the balls to finally say this publicly.

I treat it with the same respect, and I'm white. Your column is clear and makes the point well.

Mary,
Can you please spell out what you would like to see happen if the courts were to side with what's being asked for as reparations. It would be nice to know what exactly is needed for us to be allowed to move forward. As someone who has researched my family history and can tell you that my family fought in the American revolution and for the North in the Civil War. My family has always lived in states which never had slaves. Please tell me what can we do for you, What can our hard earned money we put toward taxes do for you to finally allow you stop looking to the past so that you can move forward? Would an apology be enough, if so please allow me to speak for the rest of white, non slave owning descendants of northerners, we are sorry for what your ancestors went through and I wish my ancestors could have given their lives twice to help yours. Now can we move on and deal with what is or is not happening today?

Jews are not better off because of the holocaust. Jews were targets of the Nazis and German resentment because many Jews were as successful and wealthy and prominent in pre-Hitler Germany as American Jews are in the USA today. Now, those German Jews that did not escape are dead. I'll bet you that if ppl answered honestly, African-Americans would tell you they're better off now in the USA because slavery happened. But white Americans, most of whom are 1st and 2nd generation immigrants, and therefore have no connection to slavery, would tell you they'd be better off in the USA if slavery never happened. Why? Because of incessant whining pseudo-intellectuals like you who never shut up about slavery and want "cash" now for what happened more than 150 years ago. Prove you are the descendent of a slave. Prove the identities of those responsible. Quantify your damages. Don't assume that society as a whole owes you anything. The society most connected with slavery fought a civil war because of it. But Mary Mitchell -- 140 years after the end of the civil war -- wants cold hard cash. And she'll make any ridiculous argument to get it.

I would first like to agree with your comments concerning the argument that blacks in America have benefited from slavery. Such an argument is disrespectful to both Africa and African Americans, and demonstrates ignorance towards the evils of European imperialism.

However, I am shocked and appalled by the manner in which you attacked this argument. Your comments concerning the holocaust demonstrate a profound ignorance towards the tragedy, and could inspire anti-Semitism. First, how could you assume that the world is more respectful of the holocaust than slavery when Americans and foreign governments, such as Iran, try to disprove the Holocaust's existence?

Furthermore, at one point in your article you said, "Indeed, Jewish people are free to say whatever they want about the Holocaust and slavery," thus insinuating that it is largely Jewish people who downplay the negative effects of slavery on modern day blacks in America. Such generalizations easily promote anti-Semitism and ignore the bond blacks and Jews have shared in America since the civil rights movement. Moreover, to raise such an anti-Semitic argument on the Jewish high holiday of Yom Kippur demonstrates a complete lack of respect for the religion.

The Holocaust and American slavery will both serve as reminders for future generations of the evils mankind is capable of. The effects of such tragedies should not be compared to as such comparisons only create rifts between the victimized cultural groups.

Wow, what an angry, hateful rant! The fact that you can go on such an attack against white people and not have your column pulled just backs up my points about black privilege in this country. Also, this is still a free country for whites, isn't it? And if I or any of my people want to say that slavery was a good thing for blacks that live here today, we will say it. And you will just have to deal with it. How dare you say "where do whites get off saying that blacks today have benefitted from slavery". Are you a fascist or a dictator trying to stifle free speech? Because I could just as easily say "where do blacks get off telling me that diversity in our schools is a good thing". If I have to deal with your insulting, disrespectful comments, then you must, and you will deal with mine.

The reparation issue is quite tricky because of the way it is presented in the media. The way it is crafted almost makes any hard working (and not so hard working) Anglo-American a strong opponent. It is presented in such a fashion that should America pay baggy pant wearing young men, teenage single parent mothers, HIV infected, welfare dependent, high school dropouts, and high incarceration rate people any money for their personal failures and unwillingness to take personal responsibility, when in fact the generations that did the hard work of slavery have passed on at least a hundred years ago. That is a very compelling argument when you look at the state of many African Americans today.

I would argue that reparations are due for those very reasons. African Americans didn’t help to build, but did the majority of the building that led to America having on the world’s leading economies in the 18th and 19th centuries. The economy was based on agriculture, because at that time America was not an industrial nation. The concept of industrialization was taking on its early formation. However, wealth was created and investment from abroad made in-roads into this thriving agricultural-based economy. Therefore, more than whites who lived in America benefited from slavery. Foreign investments can and does stimulate economies. I am making this point for those who argued that their families were still living in (you can fill-in the blank of the particular country) and therefore they had nothing to do with slavery. Typically, their ancestors left those counties because there we not much of an economy, or that it was a closed-system.

As an agriculturally-based economy, wealth was accumulated by those who were the poor and underprivileged from Western Europe after one or at the most two generations. The laws at that time, like those today, allowed wealth to be passed along to each new generation. This is a good practice and is one that I wholly endorse. But, if you were a slave at that time how could you pass along the fruits of your labor. If you couldn’t own anything and you were somebody’s property, then the ability to pass along wealth didn’t exist for you and your posterity. Then, it is clear that your descendents would get your legacy which was poor (poverty), ignorance, broken/dysfunctional families, and low self esteem to name a few of the conditions that were in existence then and passed along. I am not suggesting that we African Americans do not have a role, but we can only give what we know. For example today, many black people still discipline their children in the ways of the old slave master. We beat them, rather than teach them---we harden them to survive and that is what they became---survivors. We should be giving them the gift of how to flourish, but we are short on that because for generations we only knew how to survive!

In the 1920-50s when blacks began the northern migration and integration, then and only then, did we begin to understand just how much we didn’t know because of the effects of our isolation and involuntary acceptance of racial segregation, only then did we begin to realize just how robbed we were. Therefore, the argument that damage was done only to the old generations becomes invalid---because in actuality our eyes were really opened when we began to participate in getting our rights in the 1960s. Those who are opponents of reparation now have an era that they can recognize. Now we have to figure out how we can do this in an equitable manner. Millions of people have been robbed because they did not get the fruits from the labor of their ancestors and hence only have the remnants of what was passed along and those were the not so flattering things. The media has a field-day perpetuating the dysfunctional aspects of what has been generationally passed-along. Money can’t cure some things, but in the right combination it can help to start and finance the process.

The one thing Mary left out is that Jews were exterminated. Black slaves were a valuable piece of property and not keeping their slaves in a healthy condition would be a detriment to the slaveowner's bottom line.

Also, since so many of Americans are now coming from Mexico and other Latin American countries should they be force to pay for reparations? The only ones who benefitted from slavery were the owners---I doubt if they passed on any additional profits to the public.

What about reperations for Native Americans? I am native american and I am resigned to the fact that my people will never see ANYTHING for our sacrifice. My people live in squalor and we have lived in squalor for years, looked upon as heathens. Native Americans were also slaves and masaccred. If you are trying to get reperations for slaves, the black folks should include all people that were slaves.

I feel that African Americans are better off today as a result of slavery.

Here's my position: If a person never has to go through trials and tribulation no matter how heineous or difficult they may be, they'll never understand the true essence of life.

As African Americans (as a whole) our ancesters had to "fight" for freedom. Now today we continue that fight for freedom, but because we understand what slavery was like for our forefathers, we have a better way of handling the current and future.

We understand what if feels like to be deprived of and as a result, it has an effect on us today.

Having said that, the extermination of millions of Jews by Nazi Germany was not a necessary evil!

However, all evil taken against any of us is not necessary, but since we have no control over evildoers, God allows us to climb from the actions of evildoers.

Every evil action taken against you, will have a direct affect on your future if you learn from it, move forward and don't retaliate.

Thank you Mary,

I recall when you first started this blog your goal was to spark conversation that will begin to bridge the racial divide. That bridge won't get crossed until the issue of reparations is justly settled. Some people (white and black) don't have a clue of the totality of American Slavery and thus have no idea what reparations is about or entails. I don't want anything from any white person. What I would like to see personally is that the institutions and corporations that benefited from the free labor of Africans and enabled them to be held captive, atone for that crime against humanity. Our government was wholly complacent in the Slave trade. Think about to number of slave owners that signed the Declaration of Independance. The very place where our laws are made was built on the back of slaves. The tobacco, cotton, and insurance industries gave birth to many of this countries uber-wealthy families. They owe a great debt to the ancestors of those whose shoulders were used to build this empire.

Once again the silly subject of reparations for slavery is being trotted out, and once again the arguments are being distorted.

First of all, there is never any mention of any contributions from the governments of those west African countries from whence the majority of slaves was shipped. Until that happens, the call for Reparations for Slavery is just another way for black Americans to stick their undeserving hands in a pot of someone else’s money.

Whites may have provided the transport, but the black African chiefs were willing sellers of their brothers and so following the logic of those calling for reparations, the current governments of that area, successors to the former chiefs, must surely bear some responsibility as well.

Secondly, who is to benefit from the suggested compensation? How will it be possible to distinguish between descendants of black slaves and those who arrived in the USA after abolition?

In any case, on what grounds will black Americans be seeking reparations? Surely each applicant would have to show that he or she personally had suffered as a result of his nth generation ancestor being shipped across the ocean. A tad difficult I would think.

Members of our family died in both world wars, one on the Somme in 1916, another at the hands of the Japanese on the infamous Burma railway in 1944. Both deaths must have been devastating for the family at the time, but according to the Reparations logic, even though I personally have suffered no disadvantage as a result, presumably I could ask the German and Japanese governments to drop me a cheque to “compensate�? me. Since both these events are much closer in time than even the most recent delivery of slaves, I fail to see how anyone could establish a case for compensation. To be compensated, surely there must be a loss somewhere to be made good.

If there is to be no need to make a case for compensation, is this to become a free handout to ALL black Americans, irrespective?

The comparison with the Holocaust merely betrays the poverty of the arguments in favour of Reparations and is an unworthy jibe. The Jews gained no benefit from the Death Camps, either at the time or since. Transportation to America must have been a horrifying experience and not one which I would willingly have wished to share, but it is an incontestable fact that even the most impoverished black Americans today enjoy a standard of living far exceeding all but a tiny privileged minority still living in their ancestral homelands. Therefore, transportation to America DID work to the advantage of the descendants of the slaves and no amount of politically correct posturing can alter that fact.

fear and ignorance are the root causes of racism. they are used to create acceptance of atrocities against our fellow human beings before, during and after the fact. your example of the jewish holocaust is accurate, but is still using the format of race as a basis for right and wrong. there have been and still are many holocausts in the world. the ghosts of the many groups of indigenous peoples that are extinct due to colonialization and war could argue that blacks and jews are better off by the fact of their very existence. honestly, why would any non - black person care about slavery if they do not know its history and understand their own relationship to all human beings? I understand that the concept of humanity is difficult when daily survival is your main priority. I came to realize that I have the luxury of not thinking of my race until I am confronted with it. I am not black, but I think it would be near impossible for a black person to not be judged in america by the color of their skin every day of their life. I understand that my grandparents and mother immigrated to a country that was built through the use of slave labor. the illusion of the poor european arriving in America is betrayed by the fact that to get here you were better off than the people who could not afford to leave. ultimately, if Africa is the true birth place of man then at some point we are all related and share a common ancestry no matter what we look like. it is only when we can place ourselves in the other man's shoes can we understand their suffering. "under the heavens, one family"

Mary,that was a good story you did about the reasons we as a people should have a right to have reparations as a discussion at the very least. Thanks you are a voice for a lot of people.

I am disappointed in two Sun-Times columnists at the moment.

I've heard the "slavery ultimately resulted in a better life for the descendants of slaves" argument before. It usually sounds so incredibly racist from the get go that I dismiss it out of hand. I will give Steinberg credit. He did get me to pay attention to the argument. Right up until he wrote, "the average African, scraping out a living in Uganda, would leap at the chance to change places with the most humble resident of the West Side of Chicago".

What this ignores is the mindset of those two people. Today's immigrant from Africa is a free person looking to America for opportunity and brimming with the self-confidence bred by freedom. White Americans and black Africans are the little engines that could. Black Americans are the big engines who spent the last 200 years being taught they could not.

As to my disappointment in you, you wrote: "But a black person at least has an inherent right to make such a statement. Where does a white person get off telling black people how they benefitted from their ancestors being slaves?"

One of your earliest blogs asked the question, "why won't white Americans discuss racism"? The answer is, "Mary Mitchell just told whites they aren't allowed to".

"Where does a white person get off telling black people how they benefitted from their ancestors being slaves" ..asks Mary Mitchell. Well Ms. Mitchell, while I realize that the ubiquitious haze of political correctness has clouded many a view...IT'S STILL A FREE COUNTRY. Have YOU forgotten that? Years ago you wrote a column in which you stated (as a response to white criticism of Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakhan, et.al.) that whites don't get to tell blacks who they shall look to as their leaders. Well maam, you don't get to tell me what to feel, when to feel it, or how to express it. Thankfully, you're not Mr. Steinbergs boss, as well. While I find it disturbing that your often-racist and distasteful column is featured in a major American newspaper which reaches into the homes of many white Americans, I would never make an effort to silence your voice. I suggest you do the same.

I had to comment again after reading N.Steinberg's column. Since he either thinks his view is totally above scrutiny or is too scared to defend it, this forum will have to do. His column is flawed in many ways and I know there will be many that agree with him which is their right, that does not make his assumptions correct. To compare kidnapped slaves of THIS country to people of a country who we were at war with is apples and oranges. Of course we don't owe a debt to Japan, they tried to destroy America and got dealt with. But we did pay a reparation to those Japanese American citizens who were held in internment during that horrible war, didn't we? Slaves couldn't be U.S. citizens, their descendants are. His point that the government's mismanagement of Katrina somehow negates the debt owed by It and other slavery-benefiting institutions is ludicrous. Katrina actually shows why reparations are needed. It was illegal for slaves to educate themselves and their children, own property, even own the work that was done on time not of that of his master's. If the debt owed to these people had been paid, maybe they wouldn't have been living is such conditions? There are many ways to atone, monetary being just one. How about descendants of slaves receive educational stipends to public institutions? Land grant opportunities? Business loan subsidies? He seems afraid of 37 million citizens of this country made whole. Why? A strong African American community strengthens the nation. How come America can settle the score with every wronged group except the African?

Comparing slavery to the Holocaust is not only ignorant, but for a journalist, is an abomination. You should be ashamed of yourself. If only the Jewish people were as lucky to endure what blacks did in this country. Last time I checked the point of slavery was not genocide. How you even have a voice to speak your mind in a public forum is beyond me. Along with you, I agree with freedom of speech, but following one ridiculous claim with one of your own is not a good argument for it. Get a clue, or better yet, get a realistic sense of the past.

Thank you. I have often wondered how an atrocity such as the U.S. institution of slavery could be so easily discounted by the white media. I have often wondered about the barbarism that allowed those to enslave human beings in this country, as well as the barbarism that allows those in this country to discount it as a thing of the past that should be forgotten. When I think about the school system that educates the Black youth and the penal system that they are directed to as soon as they've come of age, I am not certain that the institution of slavery has not been revived. How dare anyone purport that a group of people ought to be feel blessed to have undergone such evil because matters in the place from which they were stolen does not appear to be as good as the place where they are. Only the soulless can believe and even utter something so contemptible.

Why Ms. Mitchell, I am shocked and appalled that you would consider even a faint remberence of our enslaved Ancestors. And to further the notion that a time if millions of murdered Africans should be considered a Holacaust? Why that is unspeakable in polite middle-class black society (and not even thinkable in high-society).

Well thank you for bringing that up though (reparations. Now that is humor).

You Ma'm, are a racist yourself. I would love to see you spend a year living in a refugee camp in Africa and then come back saying how much better your life was over there. To compare slavery to the Holocaust is ignorant and insensitive. Slaves were treated very well, and when the emancipation proclomation set them free, a large percentage never left the plantations right. Next time, get your facts right.

MITCHELL COMMENT:

Where are you getting your information about how well slaves were treated. That's just a lot of bunk.

Can't disagree with a single comment you made, including ow Africa could have turned out if colonial powers hadn't taken it over. In fact, Africa might have been a great spiritual center that could have greatly influenced the world, and a socialist continent which truly would have taken care of its own through its tribal history.

But what do you tell Europeans or immigrants who came here after slavery, as far as their responsibility for reparations? That's where you lose many people.

MITCHELL COMMENT:

How is it that immigrants can reap the benefits that America has to offer, but cannot share in the responsibility for her faults?

American slavery and the Holocaust are singularities -- horrible rents in the fabric of western civilization. As a Jew, I find it incomprehensible to compare them.

But it is important to understand how vicious these phenomena were. And so I'm a bit surprised that you didn't quite take the full measure of the evil of American slavery. Slavery has existed in various forms around the world -- Jews, of course, celebrate their own liberation from bondage every spring at Passover -- but no other form was so utterly dehumanizing as the American form: chattel slavery. Here, slaves literally had the same legal status as livestock.

Incidentally, the idea of African as sub-human is part of the Sen. Allen story. Most reports trace the "macaca" slur to his mother's colonial North African roots, but the word is still in use among South African white supremacists, and the word is clearly derived from a monkey specie, the macaque.

One more thing: The next time you hear someone talk about the chaos and violence in Africa, ask them what kind of a civilization would descend into the sequential nightmares of World Wars I and II.

Civil order and peace are difficult to establish, never to be assumed or treated lightly.

The dream of reparations for black people is a complete waste of time. It serves as nothing but a distraction from real issues and problems. It will never become a reality and my guess is you know that.

That does not mean this country doesn't have alot to be ashamed of. Anyone who studies history can't help but have a stomache ache over the absolute torture black people endured as slaves. It must have literally been hell on earth.
The hell did not end when slavery was abolished. There is no question that the years following were truelly as shameful.
However reparations for this sin is not obtainable and would only make matters worse for most black people.

Are people so naive as to think paying people off would settle the score for slavery? The talk of it raises the questions of "Damages". It becomes a trivial court case. This is exactly why the discussion of "Being better off here" ever arises.

Lastly I believe with all of the faults of our history the united States is the greatest country on earth. Every one of us are very lucky to be here!

Mary,

Interesting your reference to an editor - because I'm left wondering whether your post made it past one, either.

The United States of America has paid reparations for slavery. Have you visited the battlefields of Gettysburg, PA recently? Have you climbed out of the valley, up past the Appalachian Trail, to the cemetary above Harpers Ferry, WV? Or maybe the driving tour of Antietam would be more your pace?

How soon we forget. The U.S. Civil War remains to this day the most deadly, costly, and bloody war in which our country has ever been involved.

You write for the Chicago Sun-Times. Have you forgotten the Land of Lincoln? Our country sacrificed one of our greatest leaders for the cause of slavery and the Civil War, in order to keep our Union whole, and whole without slavery.

We've already paid the premium, Mary. Why do you feel it necessary to pay interest 150 years later? To stay with your analogy of the Holocaust - I believe the Jewish people and Israel remember the sacrifices of the United States and our military in World War II. How could you write a column about slavery and forget these same sacrifices?

To deny that our country has already paid reparations with the deaths of all those brave men, from the unknown soldier to President Abraham Lincoln, is to deny the greatness of what they achieved.

Mary,

As an addendum to my previous comment, I must correct myself, lest I forget the sacrifices of the women of the Civil War:

"To deny that our country has already paid reparations with the deaths of all those brave men and women, from the unknown soldier to President Abraham Lincoln, is to deny the greatness of what they achieved."

MITCHELL COMMENT:

By now, I think everyone knows the Civil War was fought to preserve the Union, not to free the slaves.

I just read Steinberg's columns about reparations, and you say it angers you that the Sun-Times allowed those columns to print. I think it's good for a paper to allow different, diverse opinions on various subjects. Because I have heard for years that it's in a companies best initerest financially to embrace "diversity". Because like I have heard from others, "when we have diversity we all win". Maybe working for the Sun-Times is not for you? Maybe you should apply at the Chicago Defender or Ebony magazine? Those publications are very narrow in their thoughts and opinions and since you abhor diversity so much, maybe those publications would suit you better?

MITCHELL COMMENT:

No, Jerry what I said is I doubt that the Sun-Times would have printed that Jewish people benefitted from the Holocaust.

It's nice to know that the only people who has ascertain any appreciable gains by being in America, or those of African descent. Exactly how much dope must one smoke to come to these conclusions.

Wow, I just read Neil Steinberg's column. It's extremely insensitive at best and very racist at worst. The only thing Neil is missing is his white hood.

He painted such a rosy picture of slavery. How does he know that it's worst to live in Africa than on the West side of Chicago? Has he ever lived in either place? It's scary to see such an irresponsible piece of crap column printed in a Chicago newspaper.

Going by Neil's reasoning, the terrorist state of Israel should've never been established because it was taken from the Jews in the past. Ooops, now I will be labeled an anti-Semite. Shame on me.

Mary Mitchell owes her entire professional existence to the "double standard". The double standard that allows blacks to say and write things that whites dare not utter a word about. Her column would not exist without this accepted double standard and it still mystifies me on a daily basis that the Sun-Times allows her column to continue. Like the Dems, I guess the Sun-Times panders to its base. At the very least, she'd have to be more creative than crying about the unfair plight of black existence at the hands of the evil white man in nearly every single column. Now she laments an imaginary double standard in which whites and Jews can say something that blacks cannot say in reverse? Geez Mary, what a tough break for one of the most racially divisive individuals in Chicagoland. First of all, I don't believe such a double standard exists. Blacks still have carte blanche to say anything they please without reprecussion. However, if such a double standard did exist...welcome to the club Mitchell. How's it feel?

I want the entire country to read this article. I understand we have to grab hold to life and move-on, but I don't believe in forgetting. Unfortunately, my generation has forgotten what our ancestors had to endure. I hate our chosen blindness prevents us from questioning why that is a topic in the media. Great job! Please keep stories like this one coming.

How simplistic! The author seems to know little about the history of slavery in the states, much less any "worldview" If reparations are deserved it cannot ever be paid to those who are owed any-they are all long dead. Like children raised by abusive parents, many Israelis are abusive to non Jews who will pay for that?

Whites have been paying reparations for years...it's called WELFARE!!!

MITCHELL COMMENT:

You forget that more whites than blacks benefitted from welfare.

Ms. Mitchell, I am disappointed by the insensitive timing of your column about the Holocaust on Yom Kippur. I'm all for free speech too, but if you're looking for respect and understanding for slavery victims, perhaps you could show respect and understanding for Holocaust victims.

There was no "black Holocaust". There was only the Holocaust - an event so horrific that no other words can convey the depravity of hatred which resulted in the deaths of eleven million people. Six million of the victims were Jewish, which is why the Holocaust is so closely associated with Jews. The Nazis believed (and convinced average citizens) that Jews were sub-human parasites to be exterminated. Every soul who perished in the Holocaust deserves the respect in death, they were not afforded in life. Please don't trivialize their suffering by implying the Holocaust pertains to anything other than the deadly regime of evil that attempted to change the complexion of the world.

Slavery is just as powerful a word as the Holocaust. Jews know a thing or two about being slaves but no one should pretend to understand the depths of suffering endured by American blacks. Jews can relate to losing control over their lives and being subjugated to the whims of the stupid, the cruel and the evil but there is still no comparison. There is no prize for the group with the most suffering. As decent but imperfect human beings, we should not minimize the significance of victims of any historical event by comparing them to another.

Your columns often provoke me to evaluate my own beliefs and develop intelligent opinions based on many perspectives. I often disagree with you but I respect your contribution to public discourse. However, I felt this column was a blatant slap at Jews, gays, gypsies, the developmentally-disabled and many others who didn't fit the Aryan ideal. There are better ways to make your point than standing on the backs of others. Peace.

I felt, but never could have written, your response to Neil Steinberg's column. He seems to be obsessed with black issues. His columns reek with hostility toward black people. He apparently is not just another wife-beater.

While I'm not sure where I stand on the issue of reparations, or even if there is realistic hope of winning, I completely agree that slavery was the black holocaust. If nothing else,talking and teaching about the jewish holocaust has allowed jews to keep the issue front and center, while teaching valuable lessons to generations of young jews. It has effected how all countries treat their motherland of Isreal, including the United States. As Afro-American people it would benefit us to do the same by passing on the history and lessons learned that still influences our lives today. Instead we have only given our youth the minimum. Because of our lack of focus on our history, we have few ties, emotional or otherwise, to the motherland of Africa and its people. We have little ability to effect changes or influence U.S. policy in Africia, as do American Jews on Isreal. While many will complain about afro-Americans keeping the issue public, there is a benfit. The benefit isn't in just obtaining reparations, but in having influence, an preventing this from happening again.

There is no comparison between slavery in America and the Holocaust. A better comparison would be slavery of Jews in Egypt to slavery in America. After Jews were released from slavery, they in some places remained, and confronted the sentiments you wrote about. Also, it would be wise to remember that millions of people who were not Jewish perished in the Holocaust, and your us vs. them attitude once again perpetuates racism. Very poorly done, again.

I was a fed up with the stupidity of the American thought process, that bigotry has harbored and protected since the first white man entered it. The slaughter of many that enriched the then few and later majority. How does a the sins of America enrich me when they are so often placed upon me?
Dead beat dad is one such example. Common sense excapes Americans when they speak of a fathers responsibility to his children. But when we speak of reparations for the many WHITE fathers of the slaves
that abandoned all Black children because of not our fathers but or mothers, rationality goes out the window. We celebrate the memory of Emitt Till but forget the question of how can we of african american descent have so many beatiful colors when a black man ( Even now in most cases ) could not even speak to a white woman let alone sleep with one without violence or the fear there of?
This truth is harmful to a society that likes to make one believe white women are desired by Black men over black women as television cameras love to capture at any given oportunity. Yet it is OUR mothers that has been legally raped for a white mans lust and desire for the richness of Black beauty....Even as a slave she commanded the attention of her captures Over she that was the supposed respected lady of fortune. Dead beat dad is the American white man that to this day hides the fact that he is our cousin and has profited from his fathers denial of us all.
The black man is not a rapest of cultures yet we are feared, I even say the reason kindness is looked upon as weakness in some cases stem from the violent nature in wich we were concieved by the hands of white american forfathers.
The truth of bigotry began in the home and it is now for me a White problem!
I washed my hands of it when I left the U.S and discovered a life of true freedom, the freedom of hope. So goodbye "cousin" may you one day grow up, because life will not forget as easily as you chose to......Common Sense.

"Can you imagine what would have happened if such a suit were filed in 1906? Instead of nasty e-mails to newspaper columnists sympathetic to the cause, there would have been lynchings."

Can't we have both????

The key difference between the holocaust and slavery is that the holocaust happened in this lifetime and the goal was extermination. If Mary Mitchell wants to say that people should pay reparations for something they are not personally responsible for because of the color of their skin, she should tone down the righteousness when people correctly state that blacks are much better off in this country than Africa.

Very interesting. Mary, I will say this. The jews and Japanese-Americans who received reparations have this advantage: They were still alive because its recent history. And I think a reason alot of whites are v. it is because only less than 4 percent of whites in America today had ancestors who were slave-masters, traders, or had anything at all to do with slavery. I'm sure some Italian-American or Polish-American in Chicago is asking himself, "why do I have to pay blacks, my ancestors had nothing to do with it? They didn't even come to America until after 1900." Something else Mary that WILL HAPPEN. And are you prepared to pay them with your taxes? Native-Americans are gonna want there check. Who more then them would deserve it? Mary, Mexican-Americans are going to want their reparations. Afterall, this country took what is today Arizona, New Mexico, California, half of Oregon, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, and of course Texas from their ancestors by FORCE. Are you prepared to pay them? And remember, there will soon be as much as twice as many Mexican-Americans as there are African-Americans. Thats alot of people to pay. You think we have a illegal immigration problem now--just wait. They already are the LARGEST minority in America as it is. Mary, are you prepared to pay the Mormons? What do you mean what am I talking about? Read our US History? Read about Nauvoo, Illinois. Nauvoo was once the largest and most prosperous city in Illinois. Moreso than Chicago. That is until there leader Joseph Smith and his friends were hung and the genocide and holocaust v. Mormons by the people of Illinois occured. Why do you think Mormons fled to what is now Utah? And by the way, Americans were so brutal v. them there was a $5 a head price for any mormon killed. Why US Cavalrymen would pick-off mormons as there wagon trains headed west. Easy money they figured (and that included a few Buffalo Soldiers marksmen). They had to flee leaving there hard-earned properties behind. I'm sure they can't wait for there reparations. Just remember Mary, the 'pandora's box' will have been opened.

Why do whites owe blacks or anyone an apology when approximately 80% of white people living in America today didn't have ancestors in America during the Antebellum era? Someone also needs to enlighten Mary Mitchell to the fact that her own African tribal chiefs willingly sold her ancestors into slavery to Europeans and Arabs. That and there were black slave owners in America just like there were white slaves in the north(http://www.americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htm).

That's right, many white children of poor parents were kidnapped in English ports and brought to America in chains and worked to death. But since they're white, they don't count and their story goes untold and gets flushed down the memory hole.

Every race has the capacity to commit evil and has(even jews and blacks); Every race has been victimized or suffered to some extent throughout history (even whites, see the book "White Slaves, African Masters") Black on black slavery exists to this day in Africa, so perhaps Mary Mitchell should dedicate herself to liberating her African cousins from servitude. But I forgot that all the shortcomings and character defects of Africans and American blacks are caused by "the legacy of slavery and colonialism", so she's off the hook.

As far as restitution for past injustices, we have affirmative action, welfare, food stamps and medicaid, so whites have given enough to undeserving and ungrateful blacks the likes of Mary Mitchell.

Disgusting racial attitudes towards blacks? How about the disgusting racial attitudes towards whites in the form of blonde jokes, redneck jokes and the overuse of racial epithets like "hillbilly" and "white trash" in hollywood movies and sitcoms?

Maybe its time disgruntled blacks put their money where there mouth is and move to Africa. That'll be the day!

MITCHELL COMMENT:

You forget that more whites than blacks benefitted from welfare.

In terms of numbers, of course. But in terms of percentage, not.

"How is it that immigrants can reap the benefits that America has to offer, but cannot share in the responsibility for her faults?"

Are you kidding me!!! I'll tell you what Mary, next time I visit Detroit and get mugged by a black man, I'll be sure to send you a check for my losses. After all, he's black and so are you. That has to be one of the most ignorant questions that I have ever heard. If you are suggesting that white immigrants should take responsibility for slavery simply because they are white, I suggest that you meet up with some Klan members who believe that every black person share in the responsibility for crimes committed by blacks. My GOD! How ignorant can one person be.

"You forget that more whites than blacks benefitted from welfare."

This is just an attempt to use misinformation to make a point. That statement is a grammatical error. The correct statement goes like this: You forget that more whites than blacks benefitted from welfare, but only because there are more whites than blacks.

A very simple search will show you that, as a percentage, blacks collect more social assistance than whites. The difference is not great, but it is a fact.

"How is it that immigrants can reap the benefits that America has to offer, but cannot share in the responsibility for her faults?"

Good lord, you've done it! How can you continually one-sided and negative??? People come here from long ago to make a better life, and you just want them to be responsible for the plight of black people in America. My grandparents were in Europe since the early 1900's, there's nothing you or anybody else can say to make me feel my family had anything to do with slavery. I'll never feel personal guilt.

can't let this slide:

"By now, I think everyone knows the Civil War was fought to preserve the Union, not to free the slaves."

that's perhaps correct in a very limited, technical sense, but completely glosses over why the Confederate states were seceding, namely, they refused to surrender their right to keep slaves.

don't wash out of history the abolitionist movement, or pretend that anti-slavery forces didn't force the South's hand.

is it really so much to ask to honor the sacrifices of the Union troops who suffered a war with the worst hand to hand combat ever known to man?

That "Pandora's Box" got left open years ago! This whole idea of "reperations for slavery" is just stupid! What will the money be used for? Building a time machine for Blacks,and have intellectuals go thru it to re-make history?!? "White guilt" won't buy anything! I'm Black! And I'm not caught up on the slave years. We have too-too-too many lawyers and weak spineless-liberaly social consious geeks in this world! Blacks weren't the only people used for slave labor in the past thousands of years in this worlds' history. Stick to the here and now! Live for today!

Blacks were thought of as a commodity, loaded on the slave ships and shipped to America to be used as beasts of burden and articles of commerce. The progeny of these people are today enjoying the gifts of America just as everyone else does. Yes, some more than others, but everyone over here has a shot at the American Dream, otherwise we wouldn't have the Obamas, Winfreys, and Cosbys.

The Jews were loaded onto another type of conveyance, bound in another direction, on another mission. They were shipped by rail cars to death camps in Europe and systematically exterminated, over six million, dead. Young and old alike were simply slaughtered, not because of what they did but because of who they were. No shot at the American Dream, just a shot in the back of the head.

Anyone who can compare slavery and the Holocaust is lacking in knowledge and really cannot see the big picture. They are so caught up in their own blackness they cannot see anyone else's viewpoint. Mary you are one of those people. Be glad you are Black, had you been a Jew, you might not even be here right now to talk such nonsense.

"Where does a white person get off telling black people how they benefitted from their ancestors being slaves?"

By the same token, where does a black person get off telling Jews anything about the Holocaust? Remember, Mary, it's a Jewish thing, you wouldn't get it, like all those black things whites are incapable of "getting."

I cannot believe the blatant racism that exists in this day and age. I don't think that one group had it necessarily worse than another as pertains to blacks and jews. I don't think we should turn this into an us versus them. However, anyone that doesn't acknowledge the fact that over 20 MILLION black men and women were stolen from Africa and shipped world-wide, over 6 MILLION of them to the U.S. alone, is completely ignorant about history. Let me answer why immigrants and Europeans should pay for reparations. Because when they came over here, there where opportunities available to them that newly freed blacks didn't have, such as the Homestead Act. The Homestead Act specified that anyone who settled in the west and farmed that land for a period of time could essentially keep it free. Germans, Scandanavians, and other groups took advantage in huge numbers. However this and many other programs was denied to the blacks who had spent over 250 years in bondage. We were placed in another form of bondage called Jim Crow for 150 further years. Now white people who may descend from the earliest colonists may ask themselves, "Well this doesn't apply to me, why should I have to pay". The answer is that the entire American economy from the late 1600s to the early 1800s was predicated on slavery. Insurance companies sold premiums on slaves, New England ship builders built slave ships and provided sailors for the international slave trade, a majority of the miners and railroad workers at that time were slaves, many slaves were used as free labor in factories of the day, skilled slaves were used as craftsman and laborers in construction. The U.S. capitol and White House was partially built with slave labor. New York City had slave labor into the early 1800s. Many if not most of the advantages white people enjoy today were made on the backs of black torture, rape, deprivation, and murder. And these crimes did not end with slavery. Physical slavery was traded with socioeconomic slavery that in many was continues today. America is the light of the world, but she is not without a lot of faults. This country achieved it's place in the world today off a lot of innocent blood. While we all, native and immigrant alike, celebrate and take full advantage of America's opportunities, we can't shy away and try to run from her failures and wrongdoing.

to RCF: Yes, the 'Jim Crow' days down south were nothing to be proud of. No arguement from me on that. Nor the segregated neighborhoods of Chicago. Thats right--CHICAGO ! The most segregated city in America....However, I'd like to remind you RCF, that more young African-American males have been murdered by OTHER young African-American males in urban America in the last 10 years then Jim Crow ever killed in ALL the years since the Civil War. I believe it was the city of Evanston that put a sign up with those stats but the PC-folks made them take it down. Does that trouble you? Just nosy.

to Dave: The last thing I would want is black people go back to Africa. One, they have EARNED there place in America. Two, like everybody else, they have alot to offer ALL of us. Three, I DON'T want to lose my girlfriend.......The biggest thing that bothers me concerning the Black Community and leaders (maybe Mary can explain to me or someone else) is this. They have this kinship with Arabs. I don't get it. In Sudan, Chad, and Mauritania (just the ones we know about) its the Arab muslims who are practicing genocide v. black people. Its the arab muslims who have a striving enterprise of 'chattel slavery of Black Africans'. Yes in the year 2006 this is an everyday business. Here in America its the arab storeowners who charge high prices in the black neighborhoods. Yet, I never hear some of my black acquintances criticizing them. Its always the 'jews this', the 'jews that', 'republicans this', 'republicans that'. For whatever reason a DOUBLE STANDARD is very acceptable. Even worse then that. A people who still practice slavery and are very chauvinistic v. women are the ones applauded---why?

For all of those who want know about slavery and the REAL business of being enslaved, read The River Where the Blood is Born, by Sandra Jackson-Opoku. Also, after reading some of the most ignorant racist comments that I have read about Blacks in quite sometime on this blog, my theory about racial relations in America is true. There can never be true equality in a country that up until 143 years ago, enslaved millions of people for profit and now pretends that the playing field is now equal. This country was stolen from Native Americans and Mexicans and its lands worked by Africans who were stolen from their homeland where they were minding their own business because of the greed and triflingness of Whites. I do not mean to sound like a racist but I am angry out Whites who want to believe that the lives of Blacks were enhanced by coming to this country as slaves and worked like mules. My great-grandfather was slave and is my life better because he was a slave? No it is not. Unlike Whites, I cannot trace my ancestry through the family Bible but had to go on the Internet to trace my lineage. Regardless of programs put in place to help Blacks during the sixties, we are still thought of as less than human and my son who is fourteen has a higher chance of being harrassed by the police than a White male child his age. And for all the Whites who want to believe the usual crap about Blacks, just think about this: Mary Mitchell is an intelligent, educated Black woman who has managed to survive and thrive in a lily White world but could you survive in her Black world? I doubt it.

Mary, I think blacks already have received reparations for slavery. Blacks are unchallenged when they own and operate "Black Radio Stations" and "Black Newspapers." Or operate "The United Negro College Fund" or black universities like Grambling or NAACP, which is racially-oriented. Blacks also are often hired over better-qualified whites to fill "quotas." Because of his skin color, the Rev. Jesse Jackson has been allowed to freely use the threat of raising racial issues to extort money from corporations.
My grandfathers and grandmothers came here from Poland between 1912 and 1917 with no possessions and no money. Neither gandfather could speak English. One hand-shoveled coal into boilers at heating plants and was still able to make enough money to raise eight children. The other was a police officer in Cicero during the Capone days and the Depression, where he had to look the other way at times so he could keep his job and feed seven children.
How much should my family owe the decendants of slaves?

MITCHELL COMMENT:

With all due respect, your ancestors chose to come here, mine didn't.

Ms. Mitchell, I too agree with you that Slavery deserves the same level of respect that silences a room of thousands at the mere mention of a "survivor" or descendant of the Holocaust.

People of all colors should seek to understand fully that the plight of Black America is severely grim. As a people we were literally plucked from our homes, families and the basic foundation of ourselves. Surely we were descendants of kings and queens, nobel in our home land. Dropped into this "land of milk and honey" and picked, prodded and further separated from tribal families. As our enslaved families attempted to re-group and form "new" families we were often and again TORN apart. Sold off to the highest bidder, our men Sold off, our children sold off. Our women Sold off an What we have left is a foundation that is built upon the weakest of soiled ground. For each time we rise we often crumble under our own weight, for our foundation is weakened from years of oppressive acts bestowed upon us. This country was built on the backs (often literally) of our forefathers; and America is Great because of us, not in spite of us. We deserve to have someone look at why, take some responsiblity for the acts that were distructive to us. America should take care of her own, instead of spending BILLIONS of dollars to protect oils of another country under the guise of democracy. America spend Billions on educating your people. Send our children home, our children that make up 78% of those fighting and dying overseas. Do we deserve some reparations, you better believe we do. And to my brothers and sisters, let everyone hear our voice as we bring power to the polls. The extermination of a people which plagues our neighborhoods under the guise of drugs (which are massed produced and continuously destributed in "our" neighborhoods, often steps away from our "police departments", and to further treat us with more disrespect, we now are subject to cameras that should "deter" crime, or is it just ADVERTISEMENT FOR THE DEALERS, letting those looking for the poison EXACTLY in what area you can find it. Are those cameras the city's way of advertising the new Blue Light Special? AS a peopole we must stand up, make some noise, hit the polls, rid our governments of these closet offenders of our people and children. Trust me, if you find one bone in a closet, chances are there is an entire "body of bones" somewhere near! Remember to vote, take your family to the polls. If not children in generations down the line will stand in museums asking their parents; "mommy do you remember black people"

People often ask me what AmAfrican is...... Let there be no doubt that I am an American of AFRICAN ancestry!

How much will Obama get ?

Mary - you tend to distort figures in order to try to prove a point...

Your statement on that whites have benefitted from welfare more than blacks is misleading, and at worst, depending on which reports you want to believe, is flat out wrong.

The New York Times reported a survey of 15 welfare programs in 14 states and New York City that account for nearly 70 percent of US welfare recipients. Blacks accounted for 37 percent of welfare recipients, and 13 percent of US residents; Hispanics were 22 percent of recipients, and 11 percent of residents. Whites accounted for 35 percent of welfare recipients and 73 percent of US residents.

Again, you can probably find a study that finds whites at 36% and blacks at 35%...in proportional terms, blacks have benefitted significantly more than whites from welfare.

MITCHELL COMMENT:

Date of New York Times study? Was the study conducted before or after welfare reform? If whites benefitted from welfare reform than how does that make welfare reform reparations?

to AmAfrican: (and Mary if you are really fair you'll show this)---YES, your ancestors got a raw deal. And they were NOT better off because they were enslaved. My fellow whites are wrong for thinking that. There only looking at TODAY'S situation...Having said that YOU also are insulting. Saying 78% of the soldiers fighting for this country are the African-Americans. FALSE ! African-Americans make up 20% of the forces in Iraq & Afganistan. Which is still above the percentage of the census population. However, liberal journalists and left-leaning followers have ALWAYS in recent history distorted the REAL facts. And folks like you have bought into it...I AM A COMBAT VIETNAM VET. And I'm white. And I have had to listen to the INSULTS over the years that only the black soldiers did all the 'real fighting and had to do the dirty work' in VietNam. ITS A LIE ! And I'm going to give you and Mary the factual statistics. 58,178 of my fellow comrades died in VietNam. In a war that was made into a large conflict by DEMOCRATIC presidents (JFK and LBJ) and continued and finally stopped by a REPUBLICAN president (Nixon). Of these 58,000+ who died, 50,112 were WHITE and HISPANIC, 7,264 AFRICAN-AMERICAN, and others also sacrificed. Those statistics say whites got a raw deal, also. Doesn't it? Something nobody will give the white guy credit for. Matter of fact, if you do your math, you'll see blacks made up 12% of the casualties and guess what, you were 12% of the census population back then. ..See for yourself.... http://thewall-usa.com/ and then hit casualty summery on home page and scan to Pay Grade and Race..THANK YOU----and remember, RESPECT goes in BOTH directions !

To AmAfrican or whatever you choose to call yourself. Do you mean to say that blacks make up 78% of the troops fighting and dying in Iraq, Afghanistan and other areas overseas today? That is a complete lie! Then again, I have come to realize that some blacks have no problem lying about history in order to advance their own agenda. Just like the lie that blacks were disproportionately drafted into the military and put on the front lines during the Vietnam War. That is a 30 year old lie that has been proven wrong recently by David Horowitz and others. Just like the lie that without black slaves this country would not have survived in the 1800's. Give me a break! First of all, very few people even owned slaves. Only rich southerners did, and if slaves were never brought here those rich southerners would have paid poor whites to pick the cotton. So the lie that blacks built this country is just that, a lie! Blacks have done very little to contribute to the building of this country.

MITCHELL COMMENT:

Jerry, you're absolutely scary.

This whole argument of comparing the holocaust with slavery is a complete waste of time. Why not move on to coparing the plague vs. AIDs. Or how about 9/11 vs. Karina...wait, Ray Nagin just did that. Another brainiac.

MITCHELL COMMENT:

If that's the case, then Liz, why are you wasting your time?

FOLLOWUP BELOW:

Mary, I think blacks already have received reparations for slavery. Blacks are unchallenged when they own and operate "Black Radio Stations" and "Black Newspapers." Or operate "The United Negro College Fund" or black universities like Grambling or NAACP, which is racially-oriented. Blacks also are often hired over better-qualified whites to fill "quotas." Because of his skin color, the Rev. Jesse Jackson has been allowed to freely use the threat of raising racial issues to extort money from corporations.
My grandfathers and grandmothers came here from Poland between 1912 and 1917 with no possessions and no money. Neither gandfather could speak English. One hand-shoveled coal into boilers at heating plants and was still able to make enough money to raise eight children. The other was a police officer in Cicero during the Capone days and the Depression, where he had to look the other way at times so he could keep his job and feed seven children.
How much should my family owe the decendants of slaves?

MITCHELL COMMENT:

With all due respect, your ancestors chose to come here, mine didn't.

PJK COMMENT:

You make it sound like my ancestors came here on a vacation junket, Mary. Perhaps you should read up on the history of Poland, then.

Truth be told, they did not have a viable "choice" in those days -- they could either stay enslaved in Poland under the thumb of Prussian oppression, or flee Poland and come to America with no money and no possessions. They chose to come here, traveling in the dark, lower bowels of a steam freighter -- in steerage.

Except for a brief 21 years, for 208 years until 1989, when the Berlin Wall came down and the USSR fractured, Poles were treated as slaves. After 1,000 years of freedom, in 1781 Poland ceased to exist after being partitioned by its neighbours Russia, Austria, and Prussia.

It regained independence in 1918 in the aftermath of the First World War as the Second Polish Republic -- only to be handed to Stalin and Russia in 1945 as part of World War II spoils. (Blame Churchill and FDR for allowing that travesty.)

For all of that time, 1781-1918 and 1945-1989, Poles were treated like slaves by their oppressors. This forced-poverty and enslavement is why many Poles fled Poland in the early 20th century, as did my relatives. And they never demanded any reparations from Russia, Austria and the Germans.

MITCHELL COMMENT:

As for those black radio stations and newspapers--blacks bought them with their own resources.

Who suggested that welfare was reparations? You made a point about whites benefitting from welfare more than blacks. My point was on a percentage basis, blacks overwhelming get more from welfare. Stay on point Mary...you're diluting your silly point.

MITCHELL COMMENT:

Again, Juan---I'm not talking about percentage basis. It has already been established that before welfare reform, more whites were on welfare than were blacks. Your insulting reference at the end of your e-mail shows why most people don't bother having a discussion about race.

Mary,

I enjoyed reading the blog. My comments revolve around the religious aspect of the question / perspective contained within this blog - mostly the responses and not the initial submission. I think there are some who "respect" the truth about slavery and the holocaust and there are some that don't. I can't imagine being one who rejects the truth that is set before me so we do know for a fact, that both were undesired. One lasted much longer than the other and left a lingering socio-economic and politcal strangle on a group of people and I don't think we can deny that. One happened in another country and one happend in our very own "land of the free and home of the brave" so there are some obvious differences. The major difference I see with the 2 is this. If you read your bible, the bible talks about the chosen people. The bible says that God would give his chosen people great worldly goods so long as they adhered to his creed. The bible prophecized that those chosen people would become disobediant and thus be punished by God. The would be sent on a Westerly course, to a land 'not there own', where they would be enslaved for a period of 400 hundred years. Now, if we believe in our Bible, then we must believe that there was a reason and greater purpose behind the slavery blacks have experienced for the past 400 years. I do not believe blacks are better off in any way because of slavery. I believe their condition has been prescribed by God and only he will be responsible for tranforming his chosen people - in his own time on his own accord. That is the difference between the slave trade and the holocaust. One was prescribed by God to punish the chosen people, and one was not. Blacks had to live in lack of total prosperity because that was Gods prescription for them. Holocaust victims were not put on the westerly course that the bible speaks of, nor were they captive in "a land not their own". When Jewish people trailed their westerly course, they became properous, not enslaved.

-Thank you for allowing me to partake in this discussion. It's very enlightening to read other perspectives on such topics.

No one went to war because we was enslaved. I totally agree that we done the right thing by stopping the slaughter of the Jewish people. I was given life opportunities by Jewish people. The problemis that we helped establish Israel and made sure that the country was ran properly. In Africa the problem is that there is no well planned transition. These people are given guns instead of being given education. Somewhere along the way all people need to start talking instead of fighting.

With some of the comments I have read, it is aways amusing to myself, and other Black people when Whites love to state, "The angry Black man or woman" or better yet, "We need an attitude adjustment!"

Well White people "NO WE DO NOT NEED TO CHANGE OUR ATTITUDE, nor should we stop being ANGRY!" (at least in this one scenario)

My African-American forefathers fought in every damn war this fallacy of a United Stateship of a Republic, and look at what happen to us each time from returning from war?

The American Revolutionary War we lost many black men but still was slaves, though your lilly-white butts wanted freedom from England (British). How dare any of you wonder about the Black Holocaust, when it was ONE going on RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA!!! Black Men dying for FREEDOM, but couldn't get an ounce of it!

If I bring up the Middle Passages from Africa, I will be typing all night. Buy a book on Slavery during the Middle Passages and READ IT!!...Duh! Then try to visualize the millions of stolen Africans dying on the way here pack into a hull of a ship like animals.

The original colonies, let me digress a little. Colony = Colonization, a people (Europeans) looking for a better place to live migrated to the Americas and took every thing from its inhabitants. No you didn't come to share, it was to take all of it, and now whites don't think compensation is warranted, even after America was turned into the greatest Super-Power, using the lowest-level of mistreatmeat on many of her people, well before the two knuckleheaded Bush presidencies? // CAN I SHOUT HURRICANE KATRINA & NEW ORLEANS, yet Florida seems to make out pretty damn fine when one hits. It is nice to have a relative who cares about you sitting in the most powerful seat on EARTH!

The Civil War was NOT, I repeat was NOT FOUGHT to end Slavery!!

It was simply to keep states from succeeding from the Union and making American weaker!

The Industrial Revolution was taking place, and Slavery was going to end naturally, but as ususal, some entitled White folks, did not want to let go of this strange instituion, and went to war over it.

Black Men fought hard to gain THEIR OWN FREEDOM. Nobody gave it to them! When the war was over, States Rights laws were quickly enacted to give the white man control over what he was losing. And that would be the entitlement of NOT having to be degraded by being kicked off stolen homestead land from Native Americans.

Where or when did the so-call Free Black Man & Woman get their 40 acres & a mule?

NEVER!!

Immediately, Jim Crow laws were enacted during the Reconstruction period, and any slight gain Black people EARNED was taken away AGAIN!!

Jim Crowism, Segregation = Separate but Equal laws( what was equal about it?), instituted to further keep Blacks from making any gains.

And a white person wants to know why BLACK PEOPLE SHOUT REPARATIONS???!!!

I WANT MY REPARATIONS CHECK!!! Also, I want the one you owe my Mother, Father, and their great-great-great-grand-fathers and mothers!!

Black men fought in World War I & II, and still treated as second class citizens when coming home. Fought in Korean & Vietnam wars, and white people have the audacity to commit white flight, because we seeking a nice place to live and raise our children, but all the NICE PLACES have been stolen by white people.

Wonder why my black brotha is begging on the corner when folding up a company, and move it to the surburbs, and wonder why the inner city dies, while the surburbs thrives!

Give me a damn break with YOUR WHINING!!!!

Yes, I want my reparation's CHECK! and I am not ashame to tell the American government this!!

So all who make claims my family came here in 1910 or 1920, you still had a better chance at making it than my great-grandparents.

So you couldn't speak English, Hell, they barely wanted to teach my great-parents English! But expected them to compete on the same level..*sigh*

ENOUGH OF THIS RHETORIC WHITE AMERICA, it is simply time to PAY UP & OFF YOUR DEBTS to the Black American.

Then maybe we all can come together and sing "Kumbaya" around a campfire together. // by the way don't steal it, it comes from the Gullah clan, an African-American people living on the Sea Islands by South Carolina....*smile*

Slavery was wrong, and the Holocast was wrong, but I shouldn't be expected to pay for either. Neither I nor my ancestors had anything to do with either one. There are some things that just can't be payed for in retrospect. You can't blame the sons for the sins of the fathers. Otherwise, where would it end? Slobidan Milosovitch was killing Muslims because of sins their fathers committed over 800 years ago.- This is ridiculous, and serves to just continue the hatred and bitterness. This is a racist country. We should just hang it up, and start treating everyone the same. That means no more Indian treaties/payments, no Affirmative action program.....Just stop the racism, and treat everyone like an ordinary human being!! - William E. Graham, Salem, Oregon

"MITCHELL COMMENT:

With all due respect, your ancestors chose to come here, mine didn't."

Mary, my ancestors like many other people of European decent chose to come here unlike Africans, however, a huge (most) number came here after the slave trade.
With all due respect, why should we pay for the actions of ignorant people before our families arrived.

to Douglas: You explained why you want your check. I'll respect your grivances whether or not I agree with you. But can you answer me this: Are you going to be happy when Native-Americans, Mexican-Americans, and Mormons, want there check? Will you be happy paying them out of your 'already too high' taxes? Mary never replied to me when I asked her. Will you? Because like I said in a message a while back, that 'Pandora Box' will have been opened and they will want theres.

MITCHELL COMMENT:

Sorry I didn't reply. What was the question again?

To the moderator, you say I am "truly scary". You are damn right! I bet I terrify the hell out of you because I am not a guilty white liberal and I am not afraid to speak the truth and speak my mind. Like I said in another blog, I am you and your people's worst nightmare. As for Douglas saying in a previous post "give me my check"! I think that says it all about the mentality and work ethic of some in this country, and I don't need to add anything further to it.

Mary, here is the question: If one group gets a check as folks think (John Conyers and Randall Robinson prefer a Marshall Plan for neighborhoods) then naturally others will want there's. Native-Americans, being the most abused in history will want there's. Mexican-Americans (now the largest minority) will say America took what is today BY FORCE California, Oregon, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, and Texas, from their ancestors. They'll want their reparations. The mormons were run out of Illinois and killed in a genocide. Thats why they fled to what is today Utah and Idaho. All there property taken. I'm sure they'll want to be compensated. My question is will you mind paying these groups with your taxes? ..also, something nobody has mentioned. Are today's muslims in No. Africa, the Ashanti and Ibo tribes who had deals with the English, Spanish, and Portugese traders, to deliver slaves to them also going to have to pay?

MITCHELL COMMENT:

The Reparations Movement addresses the institution of slavery--nothing else. It does not address wrongs suffered by other groups. Native-Americans, Mormons and other groups are free to pursue reparations if they desire.

On the subject of reparations: WHAT DO YOU WANT? Be specific. I've read all your claptrap about wanting to be compensated for the wrongs of the past. I don't think any of us are defending slavery or saying it was anything less than horrible. But considering that every former slave and every former slave owner has died, what do you feel is appropriate? Who should give how much money to who? Until you answer this question specifically, nobody can take you seriously.

MITCHELL COMMENT:

If you are truly interested in getting answers to the questions you have asked, there are a number of websites you may visit.

Dear John, why should I be unhappy about Native-Americans, Mexican-Americans, or the Mormons wanting a piece of the pie?

Native-Americans deserve a share, hell they were darn near exterminated, and then placed on reservations. Mexican-Americans will have to wage their own battle, the same as Black Americans have been doing for 400 years? Matter of fact they are doing it as we type back and forth.

About the Mormons, WHO killed Joseph Smith? It wasn't the Native Americans, it wasn't Mexican-Americans, and it damn sure wasn't the descendants of America's African slaves? I'll let you figure that one out on your own.

Also, a better question would be, why does America's ex-slaves (I use that term respectfully & very cautiously for obvious reasons because Black Americans are still fighting for TRUE FREEDOM), descendants have to worry about the ills of the white man? NOT ONE BLACK AFRICAN SLAVE or NON-SLAVE CAME TO AMERICA, AND FORCED THE NATIVE AMERICANS OFF OF THEIR LAND!

Far as higher taxes, BLACK PEOPLE or in your world poor people, pay higher prices for any items purchased within their own communities than in an ethnic European community. I am not talking about disposable items, I mean necessities of life. To me, this is no different than the redlining taxes I pay on my home insurance, car insurance, or SIMPLY a gallon of MILK or GASOLINE where I lived.

John, explain how is it that prices are lower in the suburban communities, such as gas prices, fresh veggies, and other items but those same items are more expensive in the poorest communities throughout America. We don't have to say who live there, but we know the prices start going higher when leaving the suburban community, or white communities and magically appear much higher in the poorer communities.

Please John, every white person is not working! Quite a few whites have higher paying jobs even if a Black man or woman has a college degree, and a white person has a high school diploma. This is a racist practice my friend. The same businesses, companies or factories at one time used to be right HERE in the city of Chicago. They left long before higher taxes were put forth on them, and move their businesses, and jobs to where the white ethnic people fled to not live around, or co-mingle as least as possible with other ethnic races. This is the tax base which Chicago does not have any more.

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry!

Ex-African slave descendants have NOT FORCED anyone off their land in America! Yes, one or two American Black families have moved next door to a frigthen people, and BAM the neighborhood change overnight, but at least we didn't come knocking on doors in the middle of the night, burning crosses, or throwing molotov cocktails through someone's window.

Jerry, tell me how you guys & gals do it? Now this is SCARY!!! A community is 99.99 percent white and two or three Black families move within this community and BAM, the neighbors who were there the day before are all gone now!...*smile*...I smile because this is an amazing hatred coming from your people, but yet they keep claiming they are peaceful and loving. If so why move?

Once again, Africans were forced into a chattel slavery to build America into a great world power, all benefited from her, except the African and their descendants. But you don't want to acknowledge my asking for my ancestors payment in full, though their lives and children were taken from them. Tsk, tsk and this week's Sun-Times is is showing a bunch of loafers on the city payroll driving up taxes for their abusiveness of the Workman's Comp System. // They damn sure don't look like my ancestors abusing it.

OUR language, culture, spiritual ideologies, family structure were destroyed. And every time we came back, and try to forgive and rebuild, the Jerry's of the world, come with more deceitful tricks and laws to benefit only Europeans.

YES, Jerry, I WANT MY CHECK!!

Also, Jerry you very seldom tell the truth. Black people, white people, Latinos, Asians or Native Americas would love a breath of truthfulness from you. NOT the ignorance you display because of your privilegeness. Okay?

Ms Mitchell, I know you have to be careful in posting messages because of the negative tone of it. But some times you have to let ish hit the fan, and where ever it lands is the place to begin cleaning up.

I will be more civil in future posts

To John: if you really respected my grievances, you would not ask me if I am concerned about others who have received some form of compensation without White America asking Black America is this okay.

White America has given Native Americans, Asians Americans reparations. Also, White America helped create a country for Jewish-Americans on another continent. Mormons were allowed to moved to another state, take up resident, and live happily as they are now.

White America has also adopted & instituted the Spanish language in the schools. I am not angry this happened, but I don't see how this can be equated with higher taxes when the Black American communities are RED-LINED with higher rates whether it be home, life, or car insurancce.

Food & Gas prices are always higher in the inner city, or simply the communities where mostly Blacks lived.

We are already over-taxed!

The White Power Structure ensures that inhabits of european bloodlines have more life choices than Americans of African descent.

Matter of fact minute bits is given to the Black Power Structure to keep us fighting over the two percent that is SET ASIDE for minorities, while white Americans feast off of the other 98 percent.

As Chris Rock stated crudely but poignantly, "I am Rich and Black and don't a white person wants to change places with me!!"

John, would you like to exchange places for say about two-hundred years, allow Black Americans to enact Raheem-Crow Laws, Afro-centric views of His-story, and leave your face out of the books, media and daily publications?

See John, Pandora Box has been opened for a mighty long time. The issue is why when Black Americans reach in, the White Power Stucture slams the lid close, and claim it is NOT RACISM?

John is that what you think its all about geting a check,read Your history books whites have been making sure they get "all" the checks!where is your concern about their finances ?when ever blacks talk about reparations racist whites(decendents of slaveowners)or uncle toms have the most garbage to say!the KKK minded come out the closet brush off their sheets and look for crosses to burn.the mindset of some whites is barbaric ,if your relatives were killed ,raped and abused in a orgy of terror you would have every jewish lawyer you could afford on the case.Blacks deserve reparations and more no matter what the naysayers may think!

To Doc, you say in a previous post directed towards John that "you would have every Jewish lawyer you could afford on the case". Funny, I know a lot of Jewish people that aren't lawyers, and I know a lot of lawyers that aren't Jewish. So Doc, you think just because you're black that I am going to let that racist, hateful comment slide? Wrong!! Although I do understand why you think you can get away with being a racist. It's because too many of us whites have pampered and coddled blacks for too long and not called them out on their obviously racist ways. So my advice to you Doc is to stop listening to the racist reverends of the world and start interacting with people of other races. You will find that most of us are the most caring, compassionate and forgiving people you have ever met.

Not to diminish the Holocaust, whites who have suffering in their past, nevertheless, get preference over blacks. That means that you can, at least, have a far better chance of recovering to the point where you can compensate. My father told me that when he was in the Navy based in Germany during WWII, he was constantly harassed by white Americans soldiers who gave better treatment to the enemy than they did their fellow countrymen, and all based on race. How can anything be as worst as slavery and racism? The younger generation may have filtered it, but there are plenty of us who were born at a time to experience our great grand parents born into slavery. Bottomline is that it is all bad.

The holocaust and slavery were both horrific. Any suggestion that one was easier to get through than another is ridiculous.

Someone suggested that slaves were treated well! I would advise this person to crawl back under the rock from which they came. If your definition of being treated well is being subjected to whippings, having your children sold off at any moment, rapes at the hands of your master, eating from the scraps of the masters table, working without pay in the southern heat all day and night and I could go on... that's good treatment to you? Man, you need a hug.Read Amistad or Roots and then talk to me about being treated well.

White people, please stop giving us the basic "every group has been slaves", "my ancestors weren't a part of it", "I wasn't here then" excuses. NO GROUP has had an experience like that of Africans who were kidnapped and brought to America. I don't give a darn what African chief participated in the sale, or what other black person benefited. White folks have a million excuses for not facing facts. What kills me though is that you keep talking about 150 years ago! I have an uncle that was lynched in Alabama 40 years ago, his family still lives---hell I was discriminated against 2 weeks ago.I have a 6'8" black husband who can't walk down the street without being asked what he is doing by the police. This is not ancient history, white people continue to flex their superiority around the globe. And before you start talking about Africa, let's not forget that we can attribute genocide in Rwanda, the holocaust itself, and countless other attrocities to whites. South Africa held a warrior prisoner for 28 years so white folks could stay on top in a country that they STOLE from Africans. The superiority complex of the French colonizers contributed greatly the rift between Hutu and Tutsi that caused genocide in Rwanda. It was Aryan superiority that caused the holocaust. And all you folks who want to talk about the extermination of the Jews (which was horrific as well) let's not forget that if it was not for the sacrifice of many, including black soldiers who HAD TO SIT BEHIND GERMAN PRISONER'S OF WAR--Hitler would have been on the fast track to destroying a lot of people, including blacks. I wish I would go to war then or now for a backwards country that's going to treat me like garbage afterward. Whites lynched black service men simply because they were in uniform! What kind of sense does that make? ONLY IN AMERICA.
You simply can not compare the experience of Africans in America to any other event. What other group was kidnapped from their home systematically over 300 years? Let's set that aside though...what other group had laws enacted ONLY to see this group stay in a lower postion than whites. The whites in south africa learned it from America. Seperate water fountains and bathrooms, sit at the back of the bus BECAUSE WE ARE BETTER THAN YOU, you can't go to school with us because we are better than you, you can not eat where we eat because we are better than you, step off the sidewalk when a white man walks by because we HAVE TO BE SHOWN WE ARE BETTER THAN YOU. Even if you are fighting and dying for our country, we will treat you WORSE THAN the people we are at war with, because you are black. Let's enact laws that see to it that you can never have your proper place in society, let's make sure you never achieve or get a real opportunity. Mississippi ONLY OUTLAWED SLAVERY WITHIN THE LAST 12 Years! These backwoods bastards took a century after slavery to determine that it was not a good thing. Whart white people fail to understand is it is NOT ONLY SLAVERY that is the issue. It is this constant rant of how you are better than not only blacks, but of EVERYONE. You are better than the Iraqi's so you can invade them and show them the "right" way to do things. Or should we call it the "white" way. You destroyed Africa and robbed it of all it's resources and then look down on its people because they can't fix what you broke. What kind of people take a whole race and try to reduce ot to nothing? Mainly white folks, and where it is not white folks committing the crimes against humanity, we can trace the learned behavior back to whites. Arabs are kidnapping Christians to this day in Africa because they feel their lighter skin makes them better than the Black African. While Europeans were crawling around, contaminating themselves because they didn't even realize you shouldn't just defecate anywhere, Africans and Arabs had civilized societies. I can honestly say that the one thing I hate, yes I said hate about whites is that they have stomped around this globe ruining races of people, I won't even get started on what they did to the Natives.

I don't want reprarations. What I want is for all these so-called white Christians to face the fact that historically and currently thay are hypocrites and liars and while I know that Europeans have made great contributions to the world, for the most part they have just succeeded in making this world a rough place for anyone who isn't white. No wonder the Chinese have closed off their culture to the west. Let's think back the Iranian hostage situation. Remember when the hostage takers let the black hostages go with the statement that black people were just as oppressed in the US by whites as these hostage takers were by the notion of white superiority. I think people get caught up in thinking that other countries hate America when it's really white people that the world hates. In this world that is MAJORITY people of color, whites have done nothing but try to oppress and hold down others in an effort to maintain control of everything and everyone by any means they see fit.

I am sure some super ignorant white person who has never read a history book will make some ignorant comment about going back to Africa...let me address you now. I have been back, to Goree Island where slaves were held before being shipped, to South Africa, and to Morocco once. But I can trace five generations back of my people in this country---up until April of this year all 5 generations were still living. I doubt very seriously that many whites can trace back 5 generations IN AMERICA, not from Europe or anywhwere else. My point is we have been here since it started--America and this EARTH, it's civilization starting in Africa. You all come from us---read a book and sleep on it.

I remember that the original post for this blog discussed the climate for racial discussions, or something like that. I realize that white people are afraid to spew their racism beyond anonymity and will give every excuse as to why..."oh the Negros are sooooo intimidating!!"

I say again, that despite the refusal of people to listen to reason/reality (history speaks very loudly)we will pursue Black agency in history and correction of the BIG lie, AND reparations in spite of (as opposed to out of spite for) what ign'ant people think.
It can be exhausting arguing with mis-educated people who have been taught to believe in and fight tooth-and-nail for, white world supremacy. Of course our society is too polite to be so explicit as to call it that...

R David, please keep clamoring for reparations because the louder you cry and complain, the more quickly my people will wake up to the attack that they are under from your people. And when that sleeping giant known as white America wakes up, it will be a bad, bad day for you.

To Dee, you talk about an uncle being lynched only 40 years ago. Well, if that's true that is too bad, but how can you expect us white people to care about that when you blacks couldn't care less, or even laugh at the black on white genocide that is going on TODAY in this country. Just in Chicago alone over the last three months we have the 18 year old white female from California who was raped and tossed from a 7th or 8th floor window at the Robert Taylor Homes. Two weeks ago we have the white dermatologist who was stabbed to death in his office at Washington & Michigan Ave. by a black guy. Last week a white woman was raped and robbed by the Addison St. stop by Wrigley Field at the hands of a black guy from Blue Island. In the November 7th edition of this paper there is a story of a white woman being held at knifepoint in a parking garage in Lincoln Park. The story says the woman was able to escape when the man attempted to disrobe her. The description given was, you guessed it, a black male in his late 20's or early 30's wearing a black jacket. So you are delusional if you expect me and my people to feel guilty about stuff that happened 40 years ago, or about your poor oppressed husband being asked a question by the cops(although I am sure he is hardly ever stopped by the cops for no reason as I am sure you are LYING). Lets hear some guilt on your part for the savage black on white crimes that just happened over the past few months right here in Chicago.

Silly me, how can I forget the three black 16 and 17 year olds who jumped and attempted to murder a 14 year old white kid named Ryan Rusch in Beverly Park this past summer. Also, here is a crime stat from the FBI from the year 2002: There were 1,916,380 black on white crimes, and 362,784 white on black crimes in 2002. If you don't believe me, just google black on white crime.

I just want to say this... We the so called ''Black people'', are the Hebrew Israelites of the bible. The old testament is about us. Yahweh gave us over unto a people and place because of disobedience. There were no white people in the old testament. The only white, was when a black hebrew, egyptian etc, skin would turn 'as white as snow'' with leprosy. Didn't see Charleston Heston perform that as Moses now, did you?
Yahweh will show the world who his chosen people are and the world will be in shock to learn that the so called negro, black,AA, etc. and all other bywords that we are called, is the Hebrew, the chosen ones, the ancient and original people of Yahweh God. How will you feel then. May Yahweh bless you! Emancipate yourself from mental slavery!

Jerry you are a riot...
Clamoring to your people? Are you serious?
SINCE you don't get it why should I pursue it? Ah well here we go...
Nobody's asking Jerry for anything. In fact I would venture to say that Jerry has nothing to give (in more ways than one) Reparations is a legal procedure over which you have no control. It's about building a case against the gov't and private corporations for profitting from three centuries of slavery and more than a century of subsequent and legally sanctioned denial of access to the affirmative action received by whites (Homestead Act, GI Bill among others)and destruction of Black communities individuals and access to wealth education etc...you Jerry are insignificant on this blog let alone in the deciding factors for Just Due Reparations...silly you

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I read a past post where Jerry says "you're damned right Im scary...and you should be scared" and blah blah blah and so on...
yeah anonymous blog scary . . .please

R David, what's wrong with me clamoring to my people? Isn't that what that hypocritical communist Martin Luther King made a name for himself doing? Although he wasn't able to do it for very long though, was he? Hahaha! As for you venturing that I have nothing to give, you are wrong son. I would bet I have much more to give than you in all ways. And I EARNED everything I have gotten. I didn't get anything handed to me in the form of affirmative action like you probably have. Listen, I am not dumb enough to fall for those reasons for reparations. You need to try that on some guilty, white liberal. When I said someone should be scared of me, I meant that the race hustlers of the world should be scared of a white person who doesn't buy into all the rhetoric how blacks are so discriminated against. If you took it another way, that's fine. Because there are a bunch of black guys on here throwing around tough words while hiding behind a computer. Although that type of tough talk is pretty typical for you guys, as is jumping white guys 3 on 1 or 4 on 1. In fact, as a kid growing up we had a term if 3 guys jumped 1 guy. It was called "n wording" someone. I substituted the word with "n word" because I know the real term wouldn't be permitted on here.

Mary, your analysis was very profound and definitely does not lack substance. I would also like to direct your attention if I may to the fact that the Nazis are no longer ruling most of the world. Meaning that when comparing the plight of Jews to blacks, one must understand that Nazis are no longer ruling Germany or any other countries where Jews live. Therefore any statement made by Jews concerning their holocaust will not be met with the same opposition as that made by blacks concerning slavery. However, since the balance of power favors whites in America, one can only expect a uni-directional conversation concerning the plight of blacks. I assure you had a change occurred in the balance of power after slavery ended, we most likely would not be having thisconversation.

You very site very nice. Thanks owneros. Best.

While I am about two months late responding to this topic, I feel that it is very important topic indeed. Before I address the topic directly, let me say that I am beyond fed up with these individual commenting on African slave traders as if it justifies what European Americans did to those slave once they arrived in American and for 400 hundred years at that. Let me inform all of those ignorant individuals on the African Slave trading subject first. Yes there were African slave traders, people who had slave themselves, but they were slaves in a different since, often prisoners of war of some sort and definately not treated as bruitly as there were in America, and those African slave traders were not aware of the difference, so please until you completely study the topic, don't comment on it. Now, I firmly believe that African Americans deserve reperations. People believe that since slavery is over that the effects of it are not apparent today, but each and everyday African Americans are faced with racism and brutality that stem from slavery. People can be foolish to think that government grants and welfare and affirmative action are tools to make up for slavery, but others in this country are benefiting from these programs much more than African Americans so please don't think that these programs were created with African Americans in mind. If it were not for the slave, America would have never been economically equipped to break away successfully from Europe, but African Americans are still to this day treated as foreigners, as if this is not they should be thankful for anything the American Government gives to them. Well to be perfectly honest, I don't want a damn reperation, I want to be able to have a full share in running and operating this whole conuntry without the slightly act of racism because if it were not for my forefathers, then it would not be where it is today. I believe that it is easy for people who are not African American to comment of a topic that they only understand from a text book stand point, but until you have lived the life of and African American walking each and everyday in their shoes, your opinions are not valid because you will never understand the mental, emotional, physical, and psycological stress and conflicts of African Americans living in this society.

Brilliant Mary

I love what you say. How Jews can even compare the houlcast to the black slave trade I don`t even know. The houlcast went on for 5 years tops, whilst slavery went on for 400 years, in those years black people`s minds were conditioned to feel inferior to the white man, their culture, language and history was taken away from them, and women men and children were sexually, mentally,physically and emotionlly abused. It`s not even a comparasion.

People these days are so dumb and think everyone in Africa is poor and starving there is a black middle class in Africa, some Africans are making more money than in the US, and if it weren`t for the fact of colonisation there would be more.

White people seem to dismiss the effects they have had on this world and people of colour, for example the war in Rwanda. This is what annoys me the most.

Once again a brillaint piece Mary

Dear Mary,

God Bless You Sister. Most of the comments simply did not get the point. In bringing up the Jewish holocaust and the atrocities faced by that group of people, you were simply making an analogy. Yes, it is time that we deal with the fact that slavery happened to Black Americans and it was far worst that the holocaust in more ways than a few. Yes, slavery of the Jews did take place in Egypt, but if you read the bible carefully, you will realize that those Jewish people were also people of color. And, when they left Egypt, they took the spoils with them. So, come on intelligent Americans, stop playing the dumb game. American slavery must be dealt with straight forward and to the point. It happened. Our ancestors were murdered, raped, mutilated, robbed, beaten and treated like wild animals. As a result, the psychology of both Blacks and Whites in this country has an indelible mark of self destruction, which we are witnessing everyday. For me, a Black woman, I want the dialogue about slavery because it's time to inform each and every White person and everyone else who wants to know, we don't want anything from you. Personally, I want what belongs to me because of what my ancestors slaved and died for. Reparations is my right and I will die fighting for it. I hope there are others out there who feel the same way. And as for those Whites with the lame argument that they didn't own slaves directly, well Bless Your Heart because you benefitted and are still benefitting from slavery. The best way to pay us is not with your money, but with ours. Give us our taxes back. The idea that I earn, regardless of my education, at least $40,000 less per household that a White household with the same or less education is outrageous. That is a legacy of slavery. I pay taxes at a rate of at least 27% and see less than 2/3rds of what I earn. Starting with nothing, including no education because the law of the land forbad slaves an education, lest we forget, I'm supposed to be happy with what exists today? Get a clue. Do I sound angry? You bet. After 16 generations of ancestral enslavement, give me what belongs to me as a result of what I deserve, not what you want to give out of the goodness of your heart. I want all of my money back. That's not taking a cent out of anyone's pocket. I make no apologies and I hope to hear from anyone who wants to respond. Let's get this party started. It is way overdue. By the way, there's a fascinating article about Brown University entitled "A Tangled Web" which describes Brown's participation in the slavery trade. When the truth is told, we will all learn about the far reaching legacy of slavery. God Bless Us All because we really need it.

The discussion of pay back for the slavery will be resisted strongly. We need to keep it up because lives were lost and somebody was responsible for it.It is also amaizing how our race was labeled "Black". The english language itself hides the direct defination. When you read this book,"Hell no I am not Black and you are not White" ISBN # 1420876600 you will be firs amaized, then won't be surprised to see why the resistance of the African Holocaust is so strong.

one minor difference about the holocaust and slavery.
-in the holocaust millions of jews were MURDERED DIRECTLY actually rounded up, starved to death, and murdered for no purpose other than they were born jewish...MUCH MORE GRAVITY THERE
2) holocaust survivors are STILL alive, it only happened 60 years ago and it is still fresh
NOT A SINGLE PERSON CONNECTED TO SLAVERY IS ALIVE
...slavery was a horrible horrible thing for those involved and affected by it. Racism is a horrible thing. i'm not downgrading that notion,but to put it in the same category as the holocaust is irresponsible.

PARTS OF THIS IS SO RACIST! I DECPISE RACISM!!! THIS IS UNBELIEVEABLE THE SLAVERY WAS AS HARSH AS THE HOLOCAUST!!!!

I don't care if you post this or not, it needs to be said. the Holocaust was horrible, the slavery was horrible, but i really do think that everyone needs to read more about the history of all this. Because I know being polish, not only did jews waste away in those camps so did Polish people. Also go back to Roman times, they were enslaved also...meaning that Romans "Whites" as you call us today were inslaved too! And with black slavery...im not saying anyone owes white people anything but I know you have heard of the "Underground Rail road" I know a lot of white people participated in that. Also Im not too sure im doing more readings on this but. I remember a little from history class, that the African tribes were selling there own first to “white people” before “White people" starting stealing. Now im not trying to blame or make “White people” sound better its just I feel today in America at least that we do have an equal chance. You may think im crazy for saying that but I do believe that. And yes there are A LOT of raciest white people today. But aren’t there many black, Mexican, Asian, Indian. Ect….. people that are raciest? You would probably say oh well look what happened to there ancestors. But please even if I can trace back my ancestory and find that they owned slaves, which I couldn’t, I wasen’t born then. And Im not raciest today no matter what anyone says. Why should I have to watch everything I say? It seems like it goes back to the old saying “ Guilty by Associtation”. I feel Segregation is back just in a different way! I have a lot more to say.

(first time reader, first time comment)

So, if I get this right--and I hope I do. We're saying that over a solid 100 years of slavery and slavery-direct institutions (just a ballpark figure) and an additional hundred years or so of inequity (ballpark again), and the resulting suffering and deaths from those periods... that it mandates a status of importance and tragedy either generally on par with or possibly greater than the Jewish (and other groups) Holocaust in WWII. As such, (reparations aside for a moment), there shouldn't be an embargo on speech equating or comparing the two and there are arguments to the effect of what's good for one (post-Holocaust reparations, the establishment of Israel as a nation-state) may well be necessitated for the other (reparations for Blacks in America).

That sounds like about it. And that's reasonable.

I think the only question for me, though, is whether how important direct-effect is. The idea of reparations sort of say, to me anyway, that people today (not the government, but the people) are responsible for the crimes of the people long dead and past. My ancestors were Mexican, we didn't own slaves and didn't show up in America until 1910-ish (and did so voluntarily)--but I can see how its not a matter of "this person" or "that person" is responsble, the argument seems to be "people" are responsible (or "society", call it what you will).

That's where it loses me. The idea that the people of today are responsible for what the people of yesterday did, and that the people of today are entitled to what the people of yesterday deserved, doesn't have a lot of strong ground.

If we establish a multiple-generations-enduring social responsibility (divorced from benefitting those directly involved or punishing those directly responsible--the first generation or the one dependant on that generation legally), I don't see how that's a different argument than asking reparations or compensation for a great-grandfather's murder from the descendants of the murderer.

We can throw in greater weight and stronger /words/, but the format of the argument is logically identical--is it not? And that's not saying its a bad argument, just that when we take away the content of the words and look only at the relationship of the propositions, its the same.

As such, I suppose as I'm not in favor of those things that directly and logically follow from the basic propositional structure that I'm not in favor of more massive examples of it. I'm also not in favor of the government giving me my generations-past chunk of California back when my ancestors owned it. I think there may be a moral justice to it, but not really a logical one--and I live in America and respect how its jurisprudence works. Less Aquinas and more Dworkin. Less Blackstone and more Holmes. The law demands moral guidance, perhaps, but must conform to rational and objective fairness.

/I/ don't owe black people anything. It is a perfectly rational truth.

How will the great "America" heal its wounded people of color? Make them responsible for all the wrong that was done by the government by building up the minds,pockets,social status and dignity of the the race of people who built the country? Yes,
It will make the "African Americans" feel so much more better about this "Great" country that they were forced to live in. Just let us know that you understand it was wrong and that you are willing to right a wrong..we will accept it just as we do in our famlies and social circles today. All will be forgiven because it would bring "US" up to or so one would think "Them".

correct me if iam wrong the Holocaust did not take place in the united states right slavery did correct. so why has the american government gave money back to the jews affected by the Holocaust. slavery was here in the us but the american government has not given any money to the african american people that where affected by it.

also my thought on what is worse well black slavery. BUT . the worst was don to the native american indean out of the 3 i would not want to be in there shoes.

people forget that those Hebrew slaves in Egypt were Africans in African land before the rape of the land and it's people. Now the white goverments have dared to divide that same land to white converted Jews who are just one tribe of Isreal there are 11 others where are they? Glad you asked, in all four corners of the earth, sent by god for not keeping the covenant with god that they said they would. while the white man has made war in All four corners of the world, and has taken lands and people he had no right to, his time is almost up God will Judge the nations, The most hated is the most loved, by god READ AND UNDERSTAND YOUR BIBLE.

Dear Mary,

First off, I respect your work for the Chicago Sun Times for the past 17 years (as of today since this article was written in 2006). I will never achieve that status.

My problem with your article is summed up with this word: Equivocation.

African slavery and the Holocaust were two black marks on humanity, no disputation coming from here. But they were not the same thing at all!

Hitler and the Nazis intended to wipe out an entire race of people, to stricken them from the face of humanity. The Holocaust is a term for the utter annihilation of a people, not for the enslavement of a people.

Nevermind the arguments this way or that about African slavery benefiting the enslaved today. I would like to think that leaving a sovereign nation alone, letting them decide their own fates is always the best path of humanity.

But to say that Holocaust=Slavery is mere equivocation, and is an untenable claim. Slavery is a horrible institution that has existed since the dawn of civilization (with the Summarians and their neighbors and so forth). But it is not in nature a sadistic plot against a specific race of people.

No dictator or country ever pronounced an intention to destroy the black peoples of the African continent! The whites of Europe went after Africa as a RESOURCE which once harnessed could help them increase efficiency. It was about cheap and disposable labor, not racial termination.

If you want to get down to numbers, over 6,000,000 Jews were slaughtered during World War II in the Holocaust compared to over 4,000,000 Africans who died in slavery between 1619 and 1789 (a gap of 170 years).

In summary: Do not compare apples and oranges.
Slavery is not the same as the Holocaust and vice versa.