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As always, some members of the lunatic fringe of Illini Nation are in denial. Their version of history is so skewered that they think the slush fund scandal had something to do with a flood in Boneyard Creek.
Now they insist Illinois never seriously recruited Derrick Rose because, they allege, his older brother Reggie already had worked out a deal with Memphis coach John Calipari. It was similar to the conspiracy theory they alleged when Sherron Collins opted for Kansas because Crane coach Anthony Longstreet worked out a deal with Kansas coach Bill Self.
In other words, Illinois doesn't lose players; they get stolen by other colleges. If you buy into that kind of paranoia, you don't have to be an alumnus to understand why Illinois has, until basketball coach Bruce Weber picked up on the same recruiting philosophy that Calipari used to lure Rose to Memphis, rarely been in the mix for some of the nation's top-rated prospects.
"Rose was interested in Illinois. That's why he visited twice," said longtime Chicago Sun-Times reporter Clyde Travis, who has been close to the Rose family since Reggie was an All-State player at Hubbard in 1993.
But Memphis was so far ahead of Illinois that most observers felt it was a done deal. Calipari had jumped on the Rose bandwagon from the time Derrick was a sophomore. He was the first college coach to acknowledge that Reggie was the one who was running the show, not Simeon coach Robert Smith or former coach Bob Hambric. Others didn't accept the reality of it all. It put Calipari far ahead of the field.
At first, Derrick favored North Carolina. But Illinois as closer to home and he was aware of all of the former Simeon stars--Nick Anderson, Deon Thomas, Ervin Small, Bryant Notree, Kevin Turner, Calvin Brock--who had attended and enjoyed their experience at Illinois. Hambric always preached that his players should attend a state school.
However, Illinois shot itself in the foot. On his first visit, Derrick felt the Illini had blown him off. His feelings were hurt when star player Dee Brown, who was supposed to be his escort, didn't show up. Later, Derrick learned that Brown was partying.
Travis personally persuaded Rose to make a second visit to the campus. "He could have gone to Illinois," he said.
"Anytime you don't land the best player in a class and you are the major basketball program in the state that player lives in, it is a recruiting miss," said recruiting analyst Joe Henricksen of City/Suburban Hoops Report. "However, there were circumstances surrounding that recruitment that I think were out of the hands of Weber and his staff."
Some critics argue that Illinois was never, ever going to sign Rose, that they knew it but had to try to stay involved to save face or look foolish for not recruiting the state's best player. But others disagree.
"We believe that Derrick Rose always had more than a passing interest in Illinois. It was his brother (Reggie) and his entourage who did not," said recruiting analysts Roy and Harv Schmidt of Illinois Prep Bulls-Eye.
"In the beginning, the Illini coaching staff recruited Rose extremely hard and considered him a high priority. However, after time passed and they understood all of the factors that were entering into the recruitment, they also realized that Rose was slipping away. They could not have handled the situation any differently than they did.
"In the end, it doesn't matter. Based on how their 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes have panned out, we would say that things have worked out just fine."
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I don't fault Weber for not getting Rose especially if he was competing against Calipari. In my estimation, Calipari epomitizes everything that is wrong with college basketball, as his record would indicate. I believe Weber to be a gentleman and one who believes in playing by the rules. Calipari, on the other hand, reminds me of the kind who has no problem breaking the rules and selling kids pipedreams in order to win basketball games and further his career.
He probably was offering more for Rose's 'services' than Weber was willing to offer, leaving Weber unable to compete. What's interesting to me is that while all of this bidding was going on for his 'services' the kid hadn't gotten the minimal score on his standardized test to be eligible attend either school. And if you believe the NCAA's report on the matter he never did.
At any rate, I have noticed that Weber is getting all of the in-state big name recruits. I just hope that he hasn't adopted a win at all cost attitude and lowered his program to the level of the Calipari's of the world.
Interesting. I agree with most of the statements. I heard Rose was shunned on his mid night madness trip to Illinois. This is the first time I heard details of it. Thanks for that Taylor. In the end, Memphis was the best situation for his talent. I remember reading Rose jumped started the interest with Memphis after watching one of their games on TV. Memphis wasn't even recruiting Rose. I also remember Illinois paying a visit to Simeon during Rose's freshmen year. It sounds like Weber was recruiting Rose as a freshmen.
I am not part of any Illini nation but love college sports and cheer for any school in the state or a Big Ten school. If you think Calpari or Rose did not do anything against NCAA rules then you must not be paying any attention to what Calpari has done at both schools he has coach.We all know that Derrick's brother had other agenda's for him and Derrick.
Why don't you write negative articles about other schools in the area? What do you have against Illinois? I have read your articles for years and hope you will start writing more positive articles.
Taylor - the lunatic frindge is mostly young college kids and some real old fans that think Henson should be a Hall of Famer. I found out today, while attending a St. Louis Eagles AAU practice at St. L U. that Bradley Beal really never considered Illinois at all....wonder what these college kids will say to that....another conspiracy, I guess.
All due respect, no matter how many times Rose visited Illinois... They were not gonna get him.
There are certain coaches who have "it" when it comes to recruiting... Guys like Syracuse's Bernie Fine, Florida State's Leonard Hamilton, Kentucky's Calipari, Louisville's Rick Pitino and Illinoi-Chicago's Tracy Dildy (think DePaul, first stint at UIC and Ole Miss).
Illinois... Seriously... Has not had an authenticly earned top recruiting class since the days of... Let see if you can figure it out, there is a "theme" here... Do you know what it is?
Curtis K. Jackson Sr.
CONGRATS TO DANIEL DAVIE OF BEATRICE HIGH SCHOOL IN BEATRICE NEBRASKA!
DANIEL DEFEATED THE RETURNING STATE CHAMPION IN THE 100 TO TAKE FIRST IN THE NEBRASKA STATE TRACK AND FIELD MEET AT OMAHA BURKE HIGH SCHOOL!
HE RECEIVED NOT ONLY THE FIRST PLACE MEDAL BUT THE GOLD MEDAL THAT SIGNIFIES THE FASTEST TIME IN THE ENTIRE MEET FOR ALL FOUR CLASSES IN THE STATE MEET, 10.73!
DAVIE ALSO TOOK FIRST IN THE 200, WITH A TIME OF 21.05, THAT ALSO EARNED HIM THE FIRST PLACE MEDAL BUT THE GOLD MEDAL AS WELL!
DANIEL DAVIE CAN BE SEEN ON OMAHA WORLD HERALD NEWS AS WELL AS THE LINCOLN JOURNAL STAR, DANIEL DAVIE WENT UNDEFEATED IN BOTH EVENTS THE ENTIRE SEASON!
HE IS ONLY A JUNIOR, AND HE IS BEING RECRUITED BY SEVERAL SCHOOLS FOR FOOTBALL, THE 6'2", 190 POUND JUNIOR WITH 4.4 SPEED HAD AN EXCELLENT WEEKEND!
CONGRATS TO THE DAVIE FAMILY!
Clyde travis is... Well respected in the city and state.
But, he is a wish upon a star at the college level.
Hint: I was present during the winter of'79 when Hambric tried to get Corliss' Larry Bush to transfer to Simeon from Corliss in 1979 at th Avalon Park Fieldhouse... I know more than the CPL cares for me to know.
Curtis K.jackson Sr.
So summarizing what we've learned from this "article" and the responses.
We're going to bash the Illinois program over not getting a player that has been in the NBA for two years now. A kid that was never really eligible to play NCAA basketball and who's brother received benefits at Memphis he shouldn't have. Rose and his brother we're basically responsible for the Memphis program vacating their FF appearance and Illini Nation should be upset he went elsewhere.
We also learned that we weren't in the runnning for a shooting guard from St. Louis that committed elsewhere quite some time ago. It seems that other programs must not have recruiting misses that fans had irrational expectations about. And in lieu of Bradley Beal we have gotten a committment from a top 20 player who is an outstanding shooter, Mychael Henry.
We also learned that Illinois has "never had an authentically earned recruiting class..." This despite the fact that it looks like we'll have three top 20 recruiting classes back to back to back without having to vacate our Final Four.
What I think I have learned from this "article" and the responses is that one thing more irrational than Illini Nation is the Illinois bashers who dredge up really old and insignificant "news."
Derrick was never going to Illinois.
I arranged for someone here in Detroit to take the SAT for him so he could go to Memphis.
Its the same thing I did for Dejuan Wagner.
Anyone who thinks he was going anywhere but Memphis is crazy.
Uncle Wes
Dee was a Senior. He probably did not want to hang out with Rose because he was going to be gone that that next year. Plus, Dee did not like Bruce anyway. Bruce never had anything good to say about Dee when he tried to enter the draft his junior year. Weber is one of the biggest cry babies around. Do you see him anytime they lose? His facial expressions are worse than John Scheyers(who he could not even get from his brother) The Rose family was not coming to Illinois at all! They made it look good. They punked Bruce, just like the Howard kid did with the pretend Kentucky offer so that it could create a BUZZ! (Show me the Money)
Calipari is a cheat.. Didnt Reggie Rose end up working for Calipari?? By the way according to the NCAA Derek Rose never won a game at Memphis anyway?? I think what people are forgetting, if Eric Gordon would had came to Illinois and not backed out.. Illinois may had got Rose to come play with EG..
Only part of this.."whatever you call it" that matters:
"However, after time passed and they understood all of the factors that were entering into the recruitment, they also realized that Rose was slipping away. They could not have handled the situation any differently than they did.
"In the end, it doesn't matter. Based on how their 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes have panned out, we would say that things have worked out just fine."
Next up: What Illinois could have done differently to land Jack Sikma.
This is all just fascinating stuff,by the way.
Cal has escaped problems at two schools by claiming he know nothing about Camby or Rose or Rose's brother. Your star recruit takes the college boards two state away from home after failing it in illinois and you know nothing. I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you if you are really that naive. Which I know you are not. Cal has assistant coaches, team mangers, academic advisors, etc. all working with 13 guys and they know nothing. Believe that if you want but the integrity of college basketball is the worse for his reign.
Perhaps Illinois was trying to figure out why a Chicago student would go to Detroit to "take" his ACT.
I really appreciate your response. I guess the thing that gets to me is our culture of "hero worship". It's like Vitale with Duke. Enough really about how great Cal is. Not by you but the general media. I negotiate labor contracts for a living so I am certainly not naive, but one can alway wish for a little more even playing field. Again thanks for the detailed reply.
As one of Derrick Rose's AAU coaches said " when the money started coming in, Reggie wouldn't let no one get close to Derrick ". This was concerning how Calipari got in on Rose.
It is comical to read Mr. Bell. He conveniently ignores that the kid allegedly could not pass his ACT without cheating, that the kid's handler (Reggie) allegedly got a job from Memphis and most importantly that IF Illinois had landed this kid, they would have vacated whatever wins they got with him and likely be on probation today. Nice revision to history Mr. Bell!
Curtis Jackson, I don't agree that a coach, especially in the midwest, needs to be able to recruit nationally in order to compete nationally. For example, Tom Izzo at Michigan State has built and sustained a very competitive program with the vast and overwhelming majority of his kids coming from the state of Michigan. John Keady did it at Purdue and now Matt Painter is doing the same and being very successful at it. And I could name others, the point is that when Illinois is good it is because of the fact that it is getting the best of it's in-state talent.
Now whether Weber is successful with the new kids coming in remains to be seen, however, it stands to reason that a program doesn't need to be chasing kids all over the country in order to compete for national championships.
Taylor, I don't usually agree with your columns, and this is no exception, but I do have a respect for you and the SunTimes' product, and currently the staff at the Illini scout.com site has copied and pasted this entire article in order to prevent Illini fans from coming to this page and generating hits for you/the Sun-Times. I think it's shameful that they're blatantly violating copyright law; please have your editors/legal staff look into this, because it's not the first time this has happened. As an Illini fan, I'm embarrassed that the moderators at a major Illini message board are infringing on your copyrighted work to show dissatisfaction, and I thought you'd want to know.
To: Darnell,
First, I never said that Illinois "needed" to recruit nationally in order to be successful.
The point I was making- as it relates to MR. Bell's "theme"- was of the lack in the ability of the "current" coaching staff's to lure the "best of the best"- generally involves a national recruiting plan with their "own" special identity with the coaches who can excute it.
Now, I am very aware of Illinois' past success locally- Final Four Teams. However... in the inner-circles of recruiting, the term "nationally" is not only used to describe "players from out-of-state"; it includes players with "local players with nationally recognized talent"-Jereme Richmond for example.
In closing, Illinois and De Paul are the most visible programs we have... However, the inability to be a "major player" in the top talent pool has come down to each respective program lacking certain traits that are absolutely neccesary. As you mentioned, MSU and Purdue are two programs that not only emphasis recruiting hard in-state, but; their coaching staff exhibits "stability" with former players and coaches with strong established connections to their universities- and this has a national appeal to the best of the best, respectively.
Curtis K. Jackson Sr.
No big deal but it was Gene Keady.
More important is the fact that all coaches are recruiting the entire country. This is not a recent trend but has been going on for years. Alcindor/Jabbar at UCLA ring a bell?
Yes, coaches should recruit their home state and the immediate region but if you need a post player and none exist in your area you go find one.
Name a NCAA champion the only had local/regional talent of the roster. I think that it would be a difficult task.
Rose wanted nothing to do with playing with Gordon in college after playing with him in AAU. Get your facts straight
I think players have to take their own college board tests to get in UI. I think a prominent Chicago kid taking his test in Detroit might just have raised a red-flag. So it is all moot anyway.
BTW,I am still mad about losing Jerry Sloan, Bernie Mills, Pete Cunningham, and Clyde Kramer. That could have a heckuva recruiting class.
And how did we lose Doug Collins to ISU?
Curtis, I am not disagreeing with you, I am not a part of the inner-circles of recruiting. However, I will say that the landscape of this has changed over the years and recruiting the "best of the best" as you put it, under the current rules leaves a school in a position to retool every year because of the 'one and done' kids. As far as program building and sustaining goes, it is probably in a school's better interest to not fill its roster with McDonald's All-Americans.
In my estimation, it makes sense to recruit local kids, and there are plenty, who are good enough to compete nationally and quicker to stay in school. I am taking anything away from the 'major players' in the game because I'm sure its good to able to go anywhere and recruit competitively but as you probably know, the same thing that makes you laugh will also make you cry. Especially, when you have to rebuild every year and have no continuity within the program. I think we saw that with North Carolina this past year.
Jay, and to answer your question, that 2000 Michigan State national championship team comes to mind. I am not saying that they didn't have kids from other states on the team but the major contributors were all from Michigan. And thanks, I meant to say Gene Keady.
Why write this?
There's is no point to this article except your personal opinion on why Derick Rose didn't attend Illinois. There are no facts to base this on and no new news to warrant a revisiting of this subject.
Writing any article on the recruitment of Derick Rose and not mentioning the details leading to the vacated Final Four of Memphis confirms a lack of any serious journalistic motivation. There are a lot of things wrong in the world of college basketball recruiting and this type of 'journalism' is a big contributing factor.
You should really try your hand at politics. You're willingness to ignore important information to promote your personal agenda would fit in well.
After further review. The last 4 NCAA champions:
Duke - 14 on the roster - 12 outside of NC
UNC - 17 on the roster - 10 outside of NC
Kansas - 17 on the roster - 11 outside of Kansas
Florida - 14 on the roster - 8 outside of Florida
Florida won in 06, so I didn't bother with that roster.
My only question is that why should the U of I staff step into the same trap as past coaches have been snared by? You were in on the Efrem Winters situation, why should Weber go into much deeper "doo-do" with Rose? We've all seen what his choices did to the Memphis program.
Can you say that if the U of I had been forced to vacate a season (and who knows how good it would've been) that you'd be supportive of the staff's decisions.
I think steering clear of the guys who want to "maximize" their recruiting package can only help the program in the long run. Hopefully, Weber can navigate thru the maze of Chicago connections and steer clear of those who simply don't want to follow the rules. Let them go to Memphis, Louisville, or Kentucky.
ILLINOIS STATE HAD A GREAT PROGRAM WHEN DOUG COLLINS WAS A
PLAYER FOR THE REDBIRDS!
I've read the comments here, and you guys are missing the mark, even though some of you especially Curtis and Darnell are polite and obviously intelligent. Let me "tell-it-like-it-is" as I always do, and get down to brass tacks, and facts around this issue. Basically there are players who are considered to be "money" players. they really bring resources into the schools. Things like final four trips are commonly engineered by these players. Therefore there are special procedures involved when they are recruited. ACT test or not, Rose was one of these players whenever, and wherever he went to college. Weber never had a chance at D. Rose, and he actually doesn't have a "money player" now. I heard Scheyer got 120K a year from Duke but naive Weber wanted him for free. If I reveal the bag man's name, I wonder if Duke will have to give their NCAA title to Butler. My point is if Taylor Bell or any of you other blog-heads are dumb enough to think D. Rose is the first or the last with controversy around his ACT scores or his brother (Reggie) getting paid, you better get your head outta the sand.
Sammy, points made! I don't doubt for one second that what you say is true based upon what is obvious to the untrained eye surrounding NCAA sports (football and basketball, in particular), the gym shoe companies, their street agents and the poor children whose backs everyone else is making a fortune off of.
As we all know, the NCAA is making way too much money off of these kids to allow something like an ACT/SAT score to get in the way of the revenue streams generated by these athletes. I saw a portion of a press conference a few months back where Jim Calhoun of UCONN, after being questioned by a reporter about his salary, informed him that his team generates $12 million per year for the school. Enough said!! These athlete's (I refuse to call them student-athletes) monetary value to these institutions way too great and people cheat and break rules everyday for far less. So I don't want you to think that I believe what happened in the Derrick Rose situation to be unique in any way other than the fact that it was exposed.
I DON'T THINK DUKE IS PAYING PLAYER'S TO COME TO THEIR SCHOOL!
D. ROSE PLAYS FOR THE BULLS, SO HE LANDED ON HIS FEET, SO THE STORY IS MUTE!
D. ROSE ATTENDED BEASLEY ACADEMIC CENTER AND SIMEON, I DON'T BUY THE FACT THAT SOMONE TOOK HIS TEST FOR HIM, THAT IS MY OPINION!
THE CASE WITH JOHN SCHEYER WAS THAT HE HAD PLAYED HIGH SCHOOL BALL FOR THE BROTHER OF BRUCE WEBER IN GLENBROOK!
I PERSONALLY THINK THAT COACH WEBER TRIED TO GET SCHEYER, BUT WHEN A PLAYER SAYS HE IS GOING TO DUKE, OFF THEY GO!
"Caps" baby, I'm shocked that you are apparently very naive. You seem so in-the-know. I thought you knew the game, because you're always talkin all this basketball trash. You just lost some street cred with all the bloggers here. Say it aint so, that you don't know the recruiting game. So you think Duke is different? Think again, and think about the guy they ran out of Mizzou, and why. Think about where he started and what he did while there. Clue: He did special things while recruiting at Duke prior to going to Mizzou.
KEEP SPEWING THAT VENOM ABOUT UNDERHANDED RECRUITING TACTICS, UNTIL YOU SHOW US PROOF, WHAT YOU SAY IS MOOT!
YOU CAN BE A SIDELINE HATER ALL YOU WANT, BUT WHAT THEY GUY DID AT MIZZOU, DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH DUKE!
THE JOB HE DID AT DUKE GOT HIM THE JOB AT MIZZOU!
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!
Believe it or not guys, but; of every recruiting trip taken by the (supposedly) the top 50 players in the country, revealed- to which may be a surprise to some of you- a fact... Nearly 3-4 of the recruiting trips taken by top tier players are only seen as just that by the players, a "trip".
Curtis K. Jackson Sr.
I WOULD TELL RECRUITS, UNLESS YOU ARE RECEIVING HOME VISITS, YOU AREN'T REALLY BEING RECRUITED!
IF YOUR LETTERS AREN'T HANDWRITTEN YOU AREN'T REALLY BEING RECRUITED, TYPED LETTERS DON'T MEAN A THING!
FINALLY, DO YOU QUALIFY FOR THE SCHOLARSHIP, DO YOU HAVE THE GRADES, DO YOU HAVE THE ACT SCORE?
ARE YOU HITTING THE BOOKS, LIKE YOU HIT THOSE BASKETS?