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It is being argued in some quarters -- by those who think the Big 10 is relevant and others who think it is no better than the sixth best conference in college basketball -- that the Chicago Public League is overrated.
Overrated? Compared to who or what? Should the relative strength of a conference be based on the number of state championships it has won or the number of Division I or NBA players it has produced? Does tradition count for anything or does it only matter what Mo, Curly and Larry remember since the Internet was invented in 1988?
It makes as much common sense as the radio talk show hosts who claim Jon Scheyer is an overrated, non-talent because he isn't projected to be selected in the upcoming NBA draft. Forget that Scheyer is one of only five players in Illinois high school history to score more than 3,000 points, that he earned All-ACC recognition and was one of the leaders of Duke's newly crowned NCAA championship team.
What have we become if our criteria for stardom is the NBA lottery.
I wonder if Bill DeCorrevont must be considered an overrated running back because he never achieved greatness at the college or professional levels. Yet, the one-time Austin star attracted more than 120,000 people to Soldier Field for a high school football game in 1937, the largest crowd ever to witness a football game at any level, any time, anywhere.
Surely, Public League critics whose historical perspective began in 2000 aren't foolish enough to argue that the city didn't produce any talent in the 1950s or 1960s or 1970s or 1980s or 1990s.
Remember, we're talking about a league that didn't begin to regularly participate in the state tournament until 1953, a state tournament that hosted a separate tournament for all-black schools from southern Illinois in the 1940s. Since then, by anybody's standards, the Public League's record of achievement is nothing short of spectacular. Until recently, the league could only send one representative to the state finals.
1950s -- Marshall's unbeaten 1958 team became the first all-black state champion and continues to be ranked among the top five teams in state history. Paxton Lumpkin, Sweet Charlie Brown, Abe Booker, Tommy Hawkins, Art Day, Mel Davis, Frank Burks and Jim Robinson demonstrated the athleticism of today's players.
1960s -- Marshall and Carver won state titles. George Wilson, Cazzie Russell, Joe Allen, Eugene Ford, Rich Bradshaw, Mel Reddick, Ron Dunlap, Jerome Freeman and Billy Harris were headliners.
1970s -- Hirsch, Phillips and Morgan Park won state titles. Rickey Green, John Robinson, Bo Ellis, Billy Lewis, Sonny Parker, Mark Aguirre, Eddie Johnson, Ken Maxey, Donnie Von Moore, Terry Cummings, Teddy Grubbs, Maurice Cheeks, Darrell Walker, Kris Berymon, Levi Cobb, Nate Williams, Larry Williams, Ronnie Lester, Len Williams, Darius Clemons and James Jackson starred in a golden era. There are 10 NBA players in that group alone.
1980s -- Manley, Simeon and King won state titles. How about Hersey Hawkins, Tim Hardaway, Russell Cross, Marcus Liberty, Levertis Robinson, Ken Colliers Norman, Nick Anderson, Ben Wilson, Deon Thomas, Joe Stiffend, Efrem Winters, Wayne Montgomery, Ervin Small, Carl Golston, Voise Winters and Bernard Jackson?
1990s -- King (twice) and Whitney Young won state titles. Quentin Richardson, Bobby Simmons, Juwan Howard, Rashard Griffith, Jamie Brandon, Kiwane Garris, Kevin Garnett, Ronnie Fields, Nazr Mohammad, Leon Smith, Michael Hermon, Bryant Notree, Lance Williams, Michael Wright, Curtis Ganes, Kenny Pratt and Nick Irvin led the parade.
2000s -- Simeon (3), Marshall, Westinghouse, Whitney Young and North Lawndale have won state titles, six in the last five years in a new multi-class era in which Public League schools have more than one opportunity to qualify for the state finals.
But while city teams are more dominant in the state tournament, critics complain that the talent level has dipped in the past decade...a lot of gifted guards but no dominant big men, few Big 10 players and even fewer NBA prospects.
The list of individuals is headed by Derrick Rose, Sherron Collins, Luther Head, Darius Smith, Calvin Brock, Cedrick Banks, Sean Dockery, Imari Sawyer, Jamarcus Ellis, Jeremy Pargo, Ollie Bailey, Crandall Head, Mike Dunigan, Ahmad Starks, Will Bynum, Stefhon Hannah, Othyus Jeffers, Brandon Ewing, Anthony Johnson, Patrick Beverley, Jason Straight and Chris Singletary.
There are only three current NBA players in that group. But there are 11 Public League graduates currently playing on the NBA -- Rose, Bynum, Head, Kevin Garnett, Tony Allen, Juwan Howard, Bobby Simmons, Nazr Mohammad, Quentin Richardson, Jannero Pargo and James Singleton. And there will be more next year.
The truth is the Chicago Public League has produced more Division I and NBA players on a consistent basis than any region of the country outside of southern California over the last 60 years. And we're not even counting Nate "Sweetwater" Clifton, one of the first blacks to play in the NBA.
Look at the future...Wayne Blackshear, Sam Thompson and Mycheal Henry in the class of 2011 and Jabari Parker and Tom Hamilton in the class of 2013.
Overrated? Is the Public League best of all? Not every year. Every city from Los Angeles to Atlanta to Houston to Dallas to Detroit to New York to Miami to Chicago has its ups and downs, good cycles and bad cycles. But how many leagues are better? Is the West Suburban Silver better than the Red-West? Is the Catholic League better than the Red-South?
Overrated? Name another conference that has produced more state titles and more big-time players.
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This is a 1st for me: Taylor Bell is actually R-I-G-H-T.
The competition in the Public League is absolutely ridiculous with all the great talent year in year out. Coaches from all over the country come to see OUR games. Normal fans, especially in the burbs, don't even get to see all the talent the public league has to offer (not without spending an arm & and a leg anyway). A ton of players from the public league play in college basketball now. The list is too big for me to even start. Sure Chicago could have bad years, but so can Depaul or UIC. But year in year out, you never want to face a CPs school.
Mr. Bell,
Sorry, this is absolutely true.
This is a topic that is often presented to me and other scouts on the road from both reps of the collegiate and professional levels.
Why?
It’s simple, the destruction of teaching the fundamentals on the "real" grassroots level... the YMCA, Park Distrct, and CYO levels don't emphasis the teaching of fundamentals as much as they used to.
There are no more feeder systems… to develop coaches.
Remember “real” coaches like: Bob Hambric and Herb Brown learned their initial coaching skills in the Y's of Chicago; Luther Bedford learned the game in the Rockford Y's.
Some of the coaching in the Public League these days... is downright embarrassing.
Example: Could you see Morgan Park's Nick Irvin or Young's Tracey Slaughter- with their most talented teams- matching wits with Luther Bedford, Herb Brown, Bob Hambric or Dr. Larry Hawkins with equal talent?
Curtis K. Jackson Sr.
COULD YOU SEE ANY OF THEM MATCHING WITS WITH JOHN MCCLENDON?
STYLES MAKE FIGHTS, WHEN BIG HOUSE GAINES ARRIVED AT WINSTON-SALEM STATE UNIVERSITY, HE DIDN'T KNOW ALOT ABOUT BASKETBALL, BUT BEFORE YOU KNEW IT, HE AND JOHN MCCLENDON WERE TAKING RECRUITING TRIPS TOGETHER!
YOU HAVE TO STOP REACHING BACK IN TO THE PAST, AND LOOK INTO THE FUTURE, WHO IS GOING TO TEACH OUR CHILDREN, AND TO TAKE IT FURTHER, WHO IS GOING TO COACH THEM?
DO WE WANT THE PEACH BASKET TO COME BACK?
HOW ABOUT THE MILKCRATE IN THE ALLEY?
THE RIM FROM BICYCLE, MAYBE WE SHOULD PUT THAT BACK UP?
HOW ABOUT NO MORE FIBERGLASS BACKBOARDS AND WE GO BACK TO THE TIN?
IS NICK IRVIN GOING TO GET BETTER? I SAY YES!
IS ROBERT SMITH WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS? YES!
HAS TYRONE SLAUGHTER WON A CHAMPIONSHIP? YES!
I MISS COACH HAMBRIC, COACH BEDFORD, COACH COX, COACH G.K. SMITH, COACH CARL BONNER, COACH BOBBY BONNER, ETC......
GUESS WHAT THESE MEN HAVE EITHER RETIRED OR PASSED ON, WE MUST LOOK TO THE FUTURE, CURTIS I THINK IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO GO ON THE CIRCUIT, AND HELP THE YOUNG COACHES, TELL THEM WHAT YOU SEE IS WRONG AND HELP, BECAUSE THE COACHES OF YESTERYEAR, THAT I LOVED AND SOME I WERE RELATED TO, THEY AREN'T COMING BACK!
PERSONALLY THE BEST COACHING JOB I SAW THIS YEAR WAS BY, SCOT RITTER OF RICH SOUTH, HE TOOK A BUNCH OF GUYS, AND MADE THEM BELIEVE THEY COULD WIN, AND THEY FINISHED 25 AND 5 AND LOST TO EVENTUAL STATE CHAMP, HILLCREST IN THE SECTIONAL FINAL!
WE MUST SHARE KNOWLEDGE, BUT TO SAY A PERSON SHOULDN'T COACH, BECAUSE WE FEEL THEY SHOULDN'T IS WRONG, AT LEAST GIVE THESE MEN AND WOMEN CREDIT FOR BEING ON THE FRONTLINE, THERE ARE ALOT OF GOOD COACHES IN THE CHICAGO PUBLIC LEAGUE!
DIDN'T THE CPS BRING BACK 3 TROPHIES ON THE MEN'S SIDE, AND 1 FROM THE WOMEN'S SIDE THIS PAST SEASON, I REST MY CASE!
Mr. Bell,
Thanks for such a refreshing account of Chicago Public League Basketball. The historical perspective shines much light on the fact that Chicago has an extremely rich tradiition of excellence in hoops. The neo perspective will lend some validity to the fact that The Chicago Public League has "dipped" recently.
The first, and perhaps the most important factor in this new attitude toward the Chicago Public League, is the fact of gentrification. Gentrification is the single biggest reason the talent in the public league has seemed to dissipate. Where are all of the talented big guys? why are there only a few ultra-talented guards?? This city is known for guard dynamo's?? Well, the kids and their families have been displaced, kicked out of their low-income diggs, to make room for more posh and less-affordable housing like condominiums or lofts. Poor families have to leave, and in many cases, they have to leave the city limits altogether. This spreads the talent out. Now suburban or even rural communities are seeing a spike in the number of african-american families that are beginning to populate those areas of the state. Thus the city of Chicago is seeing african-american families leave, hence the mass exodus of talented kids who become fantastic basketball players in high school. All you need to know is there was a time not so long ago, when roughly half of all public school students lived in what used to be known as Chicago Housing Authority(CHA)homes. Now there is no CHA and there are no housing projects or large-scale low-income housing in the city. But even with all this said, the Public League continues to churn out quality kids that go on to high levels of success within the sport. Thank you Mr. Bell, and I hope peole now have a sense of where exactly the Public League needs to be rated.
Who says the CPS is overrated?
I watch high school basketball from all over the US on my Directv. The Chicago Public League is the best in the country. IT WAS rated the best in the country in AN ESPNRISE poll recently. You can see 10 division one prospects on the floor at one time. Best high school basketball I have ever seen. I was in the Army stationed in Northern CALI, and Tidewater Area of Virginia. I traveled when I worked for an airline to other states to see high school basketball. Chicago Public League is the best league in America.
Yeah Curtis, what is it, in your infinite wisdom, that these coaches should do? It's ok to be critical, but without advice it seems like like you are HATING on their success. The past was great, but the present and future is arguably just as good. Add to the situation, if not kindly step aside.
The question posed: "Public League Overrated?
To be clear, are we asking:
Are the players from the Chicago Public League overrated?
Are the teams and/ or coaching in the Chicago Public League overrated?
So that I'm clear...
Curtis K. Jackson Sr.
YOU'RE A COOL DUDE, CURTIS, AND I SEE YOU FAVOR THE OLD SKOOL TO THE NEW SCHOOL GUYS, AND THAT IS FINE, BUT MANY OF THE MEN YOU NAMED WAITED YEARS TO GET THOSE POSITIONS, I KNOW YOU WOULD LIKE MORE OF THE COACHES TO BE INSTRUCTORS IN THE CLASSROOM AS WELL, BUT WE HAVE A NEW TREND NOW, CHRIS HEAD HAS WON A STATE CHAMPIONSHIP, SLAUGHTER FROM WHITNEY YOUNG AS WELL, AND ROBERT SMITH HAS WON 3, THE GENIE IS OUT OF THE BOTTLE, NICK IRVIN WAS A GREAT TALENT WHEN HE PLAYED AND IS GETTING BETTER EVERY YEAR HE COACHES!
ASCEP TESTING IS HERE TO STAY, THERE IS A COACHING SHORTAGE, A REFEREE SHORTAGE, A PARENT SHORTAGE, SPORTING A WINNING ATTITUDE AT GAMES SHORTAGE!
I DON'T BELIEVE THE LEAGUE IS OVERRATED!
I DON'T BELIEVE THE COACHES ARE OVERRATED!
ALL STAR GAME NEXT THURSDAY AT RICH SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL, 8TH GRADE GIRLS AND BOYS, BEGINNING AT 6 P.M.!
I am not a big fan of Mr. Bell but he was right on with his assessment of CPS basketball. This was a great article and I enjoyed it very much. As a CPS graduate from back in the mid 80's just going to the games you knew that you were watching something special. The problem that some people are having is that CPS is dominating and when people win all the time then they need something to pick at. Look at Duke, people hate on Duke and also UNC because they win. Now I am not a big fan of either program but I can't deny the fact that they are winners. When a conference or a team is strong and wins all the time then people will alway say negative things.
To: City Fan
I never claimed to be infinitely well bestowed in the basketball wisdom area...
However, the question: Public League Overrated?
My- and I admit an "unintended" loaded question- remarks initially were geared towards the idea of the Public League as a whole, as opposed to; the players of the Public League.
But... to put another log on the fire... it can be argued that the talent of the CPS is more so evidence of the thirst to be the best by the players- more so, than the exploits of the coaching?
As my son and his friends say now days... "I'm just saying".
Curtis K. Jackson Sr.
Curtis,
I'm just sayin.......It's time for you to realize that times have changed. You are stuck in the traditional times which were very wholesome. I played in the late seventies too, when Dunbar was good, and all coaches had to be teachers. Coaching is no longer exclusive to teachers. Many kids don't have a strong family base. Therefore, the AAU coaches and street agents lead, and advise them. Yes, the non-degreed and AAU coaches stack talent and win with it. I even heard Slaughter was recruiting the 6'9" 8th grade Okafor kid out of Rosemont to Young. (CPS and Davis are probably waiting for that)Shoe companies support good teams with funding for travel n the off season, and footwear and apparel during the regular season. This is the reality of urban basketball in the high school arena today. Sorry to say "Old school" Curtis, you have to change with the times, and adjust your thinking. I don't agree with certain things either, but to exist in this world of sports in 2010, you have to know what to expect and how to react. Your thoughts and comments are articulate and thoughtful, but Purnell couldn't hire a guy with your mentality. He wouldn't get any recruits. .
Curtis, you did not answer the question. What could Irvin and Slaughter do to be on the level with the other greats you mention? Or in your eyes what aren't they doing? This is not an attack on you. You seem to see a major difference in the newer crop of coaches...I would like to know what it is.
CURTIS DOESN'T BELIEVE IN TODAY'S COACHES, HE DOESN'T LIKE THEIR STYLE OF COACHING, THE WAY THEY HAVE THEIR TEAMS PLAYING, CHAMPIONSHIPS BE DARNED, HE DOESN'T LIKE THE NEW SKOOL WAY OF DOING THINGS!
DO YOU SAY TOMATO OR DO YOU SAY TO-MA-TO!
COACHING TODAY IS HARDWORK, YOU ARE UP AGAINST I-PODS, CD PLAYERS, THE INTERNET, BLOGS SUCH AS THIS ONE, YOU HAVE FANS THAT HAVE READ ABOUT A PLAYER, AND THEY GO SEE THE PLAYER, AND THE PLAYER HAS A BAD GAME, AND THEN YOU HEAR, WHY IS HE RANKED THAT HIGH, BACK IN THE DAY, IF YOU DIDN'T SEE IT FOR YOURSELF OR IT WASN'T IN THE NEWSPAPER, YOU DIDN'T KNOW A THING!
NOW YOU HAVE GUYS AND GALS IN THE LAYUP LINE WITH HEADPHONES ON, BEFORE THE GAME, EARRINGS, JEWELRY, THE TATOOS, IT IS A NEW GENERATION, AND ANY MAN OR WOMAN THAT CAN KEEP UP WITH THIS GENERATION AND BE SUCCESSFUL, WELL YOU HAVE MY VOTE, THANK YOU FOR THE EFFORT, AND BELIEVE YOU ME CURTIS WILL COME AROUND, NOW WHEN THAT HAPPENS I CAN'T TELL YOU, BUT CURTIS WILL LEARN TO APPRECIATE YOUR WORK!
To: City Fan & Sammy
First, I appreciate and respect your responses to my comments... however; I will do my best to give a take on my thoughts without showing too much of my hand- as it relates to my future written works.
The problem I have with what’s going on in youth basketball today is simple, yet; complicated:
The individuals with the power to change the culture of youth basketball- clean it up- have shown, that this is something they truly have no interest in doing because of money involved and because of the way "the game" off the court is played now they can benefit without getting their hands caught "physically" in the cookie jar. It’s almost as though in order to show whom the real social economical culprits are one would have to bring them under the basketball version of the RICO Act- conspiracy.
Personally, the Irvin's , Slaughter's and Butler's of the world are actually set up to be "fronts" or "pawns" of this game involving major players that watch from the seats.
My written work: "The Shoe Pusher"- though written fictionally, will absolutely attack this revised version of the enslaved modern day gladiator. The only problem is... the people whom have the most power to stop this mess, have been brainwashed by the "corporate freebies" dished out by "sidewalk executives" dressed- not in fur coats, suits and alligator skinned shoes- no their dressed in the finest athletic shoes and apparel. The fancy gear regular folks can't easily afford.
Unfortunately, it’s going to take someone with thick skin, no need of friendships with the shoe companies and their deep pocketed runners; to tackle this problem from the inside out because this can't possibly be done from the outside inward. I personally, owe a debt to society,
I owe the kids, and; I plan to repay that debt with interest. It won’t be easy, nor; widely accepted.
But, I will earn the respect of those who matter the most in all of this… the parents and their kids.
Curtis K. Jackson Sr.
To: Mr. Bell and fellow contributors
I want to take this time to thank everyone, who I have given me a chance to dialogue them via Mr. Bell’s blog site. I think this blog site creates a constructive, yet; aggressive forum people to engage in topics that directly affect the overall youth sports landscape- better than most other major newspaper sites across the country.
I am preparing for the final leg of my literary works, and; I am going to take some time away from basketball as a whole to prepare for the fight that will soon come to preserving the integrity of your voice via the "final cut".
I'm sure Mr. Bell understands this...
My son is getting ready to graduate, and I am going to spend some real time getting ready for his needs for the last month of his senior year. So... to all of you that have given me a chance to engage in "spirited" debate with you, thanks.
Mr. Bell, in my book; will always be person that respect and consider a "dear old friend". And, I want to honor the opportunities he gave me some 25 years ago by showing him that I was worth the “headaches”.
Mr. Bell, thanks.
So, I leave you all with this thought...
I am not caught in some type of time warp of which I am unwilling to see what the future holds for the game of basketball- particularly as it relates to the youth. I am just concerned about the city-wide acceptance, and; the "look the other away" approaches the national, state and local sports governing bodies have taken to this issue.
Maybe it’s time, from a grassroots level; to rewind the tape... rip the ambiguous rule books up... blow up the current youth basketball structure and lay down a new stronger, meaningful, unwavering youth basketball structure. Supported and enforced by men and women that have a simple and straight forward agenda- doing what's best for the kids under the supervision of their parent(s) and/ or guardian(s).
On this blog site, I’ve been basically called "old school"- of which I’m not sure is all that bad- due to my refusal to give in to "the man"- the show company powered youth basketball system of today. This is okay by me, however; consider this… I’ve been there, seen that, and done that many years ago when “this mess” was just getting started. I have seen the affects of this “system”, some fellow bloggers have deemed acceptable. Not me.
But, my work has created another opportunity for myself. I have a chance to encourage Mr. Bell to ask another question in the very near future:
“How did Curtis K. Jackson Sr. do it”?
Curtis K. Jackson Sr.
Okay Curtis:
I appreciate your intent, and it's fun for me to dialogue and disagree with you, PHIL JR and the other blogheads who list their thoughts here. I'll miss ya. Taylor, who has changed with the times is the "Head Blog Head". My point to you Curtis is that writing will not be enough to impact anything. The powers that be must come to the table for anything to change. This includes the school systems, the shoe companies, the AAU organizers and funders, the NCAA, and maybe even the NBA. They will need to discuss and change the rules around coaching requirements, recruiting, shoe company involvement, and AAU operations and rules, which are non-existent right now. Once the rules are re-written and enforced, you could get the integrity back into high school sports where the big picture focus will be placed on education once again, while still allowing that small percentage of pros to function and go to the NBA after high school if the opportunity exists. Writing about it tells us what we already know. Now if you can facilitate this meeting I'm referring to, you'll make a huge mark on high school athletics.
Curtis, I have appreciated your comments and writing. I wish you much good luck with your literary works and your son's graduation.
My son also graduates from high school in June. It is a very special time in their, and our, life. I wish him the best as well. Where is he going to college this fall? My son is off to Indiana State. Thanks.
Amen Curtis. I just wanted you to say what I thought you were getting at. Although I think these guys can coach (some better than others), I think statements need to be made by those with proof how dirty and soiled the whole operation is. High school ball is not an amateur sport any longer.
Old School is good. I know you have some hardwork to do, but do not disappear from the blogosphere.