Facebook App
Our exercise on the 10 best high school basketball teams in Illinois history certainly created a firestorm of debate, which it was intended and expected to do. If basketball fans can be counted upon for anything, it is to offer an opinion. And many fans came armed with facts and figures to support their argument.
As I mentioned at the outset, if you are old enough to have seen Thornridge 1972 in person, there is no debate. Quinn Buckner, Boyd Batts, Mike Bonczyk & Co. is the No. 1 team in state history. No one argued that point.
Then the fun begins. If you didn't see Thornridge 1972, who was the best? Curiously, a lot of conversation centered around King coach Landon Cox's three state championship teams--1986, 1990 and 1993. Which of those was the best?
One prolific reader/respondent, Kosi Walker, insists the 1993 team is in a class by itself...two seven-footers in Rashard Griffith and Thomas Hamilton, an outstanding supporting cast with Michael Hermon, Jerrad Billingsley, DeWarren Stewart, Leonard Myles, Larry Allaway, Toporis Nash and Eddie Washington, a 61-game winning streak and an overwhelming points for/points against margin in the state finals.
Yes, a 61-game winning streak. It isn't even noted in the IHSA record book. But King went 32-0 in 1993 and won its first 29 games in a row in 1994 before losing to Westinghouse 59-58 in the Public League championship game.
In the state finals in 1993, King dismantled Westinghouse 77-52 for the city title, two-time defending state champion Proviso East 82-64 in the quarterfinals, Danville and Keon Clark 69-38 in the semifinals and Rockford Guilford 79-42 for the state crown.
Walker's argument is that no team dominated its opponents as King did in 1993, that no team in history had two such dominating players as Griffith and Hamilton, that it was better than King's 1986 and 1990 state champions.
But there are other arguments.
"I don't know how the King team of 1990 could not be among the top few teams," said Joe Henricksen of City/Suburban Hoops Report. "If I'm not mistaken, didn't that team win the mythical national championship? They had the most dominating player we've seen at the high school level in the last two decades in Jamie Brandon along with a Big East player in Ahmad Shareef, a monster high school player in Johnny Selvie and a budding freshman in Rashard Griffith. Wow."
Henricksen also points out that 1990 was a terrific year for high school basketball in Illinois with a senior class that included Brandon, Townsend Orr, Tracy Webster, Brandon Cole and Thomas Wyatt.
"The 1993 King team was obviously a dominant-type team with Hamilton and Griffith," Henricksen said, "but the state was brutal that year, maybe the weakest it has been. Just look at the Elite Eight that included Rockton Hononegah, Edwardsville, Bradley, Danville, Fremd and Rockford Guilford. The Final Four teams were awful."
While Henricksen rated King's 1990 team as the No. 1 team he has seen, Roy and Harv Schmidt of Illinois Prep Bulls-Eye rated King's 1993 team ahead of the 1986 team. But they leave room for more consideration.
"The more we think about it, we agree with Cox that the 1986 team may have been his best," they said. "As you can see, there is very little separation between where we rank the 1993 and 1986 teams. However, we are going to stand by our list as it is.
"Here is the thing--maybe we are having a memory lapse, but there is nothing about the 1990 team that immediately stands out in our mind. Yes, we know they had Jamie Brandon and they went undefeated. But the 1993 team had perhaps the most unstoppable front court duo in the history of Illinois high school basketball. And they also went undefeated. Will the state ever again see a high school team that starts a pair of seven-footers? We are inclined to say no."
The Schmidt brothers concede that King's 1986 team with Marcus Liberty and Levertis Robinson was special "because everyone was saying that they couldn't beat Simeon for the Public League title. But they did it and, in so doing, got Cox over the hump. From there, everything was gravy. During that time several Public League teams would experience letdowns after winning the city championship. But not King."
A final few words from Kosi Walker, who is adamant on the subject.
He reminds that King's 1993 team ranked No. 2 in the nation behind Simon Gratz of Philadelphia, which was led by Rasheed Wallace.
"No one had as much talent," Walker said. "Simeon with Derrick Rose wouldn't have stood a chance. Could he penetrate King's zone? Could Tim Flowers score on Rashard Griffith? Hamilton wasn't overrated. He never played to his potential. That team had 12 Division I prospects. They smashed Westinghouse, Carver, Peoria Manual, Danville, New York LaSalle, St. Louis Vashon, Carmel, Ind., and Farragut. At worst, this is a top five pick."
Cell Phone Alerts
I am good friends with Jerard "JBilz" Billingsley, and I believe that the 1993 King team was a great State Champion- at a time when winning the Chicago Public League Title still meant something.
However, there is not one team- state champion, or not- that I would take over the Manley's 1980 State Championship squad led by Russell Cross, Tim Anderson, Ron Washington, and Roy Spearman.
However, the 1993 King squad does have a strong case for being listed in the top 10.
King 1993 with the 2 7 footers. I remember reading about that team in the Sun times. Major star power, a true powerhouse.IF someone can throw Manely, Im going with the current Waukegan squad.
1. King 1993
2.Simeon 2007
3.Waukegan 2010
4.Farragut 1996
5.Manual 1995
6. Young 1998
7. Manual 94
8. Manual 97
9. Simeon 06
10. Thornridge 72
Waukegan 2010 isn't as good as Waukegan 2009. I love 'em, and hope they win it all this year, but there's no way they're close to a top 10 all time team.
My choice of the 1980 Manley (1980 Public. Class AA State Champions) as the team I would take over any others, was based on how solid they were as team offensively and defensively (particularly in a 2-3 Zone and Man-to-Man).
At the point was the super fast and quick-handed 5'9" Roy Spearman; at shooting guard was 6'4"Tim "Ice" Anderson (smooth and long range shot release reminded you of former ABA & NBA star George "Iceman" Gervin) and at center was a growling McDonald's All-American in 6'10 Russell Cross, who possessed space eating post moves, a nice jump hook and thunderous (Levertis Robinson-like) dunk facials.
A 6'5" Ron Washington, was a nice compliment as good mid-range shooter and penatrator from the baseline, as well as; a good hustler and defensive scrapper at the small forward spot.
However, and I apologize in advance; Manley also had a 6'7" power foward that went by the knickname: "Blood", who was just as mean and talented in the post as Cross.I believe he went on to play at Wyoming.
This Manley squad could play a slow-paced or fastbreak style under Coach Willie Little (R.I.P.) who quickly learned to adapt his coaching strategy and team preparations for "state tournament officiating", due to a disapointing showing in the 1979 Class AA State Tourney, the year before.
Anyhow, neither Rashard or Tommy had the skill set of Cross, nor were they as dominant and tuff. The guard play of Anderson and Spearman (passing ability, ball-man pressure, particularly the long court alley-oops to Cross) was lethal. The '93 King guards were good, but not on par.
with Manley's squad that also had good guard play off the bench.
So, in my mind... the only team I believe could match the '80 Manley squad would be the '72 Thornridge team led by decorated guard Quinn Buckner and the great 1954 Marshall.
Curtis K. Jackson Sr.
I made a mistake in the year quotation of a great ballclub; by confusing the years: 1954 and 1958, that had two great teams historically.
In 1954, there was the great Du Sable ballclub led by Paxton Lumpkin and "Sweet" Charlie Brown.
However, it can be argued- by those with more tenure on this earth- that perhaps the "1958" Marshall squad led by, M.C. Thompson, Bobby Jones and George Wilson- perhaps the most dominant big man ever produced by the Chicago Public League, could have been the best ever.
My apologies to both of teams.
Curtis K. Jackson Sr.
I was privileged, as a sophomore at East Aurora (coached by the great Ernie Kivisto), to watch the 1972 Thornridge team play in the state championship after the Tomcats took the third place game at the state tournament. Those guys did not even break a sweat in destroying a great Quincy team. I have followed IHSA hoops since then and while the 1980 Manley team and several King teams were tremendous, I have neve seen a more talented and dominating team as the 1972 Thornridge team.
Though the 1993 was certainly talented, I doubt if the they could have beaten those Quincy teams of the 80's.
Bruce Douglas may have been the best point guard I've seen in Illinois high school basketball. And the strength, quickness, and atheletic ability of Michael Payne (Rasheed Wallace before Rasheed Wallace), would have given Rashard Griffith fits. Not to mention wide bodied Dennis Douglas.
I'm a Chicago city resident and fan, but I must be honest when I think of that Quincy team against King's 1993 team would have been one heck of a challenge.
Marc Thomas
Hales Franciscan 1983
Although I grew up playing and watchin' Magic & Michigan I moved here in '79 and have seen them all since then. Proviso East, Marshall, Simeon, Manely, King, Whitney Young, North/West/South Suburbs, Peoria Squads, Thornton, you name it and I saw them play. King's 1990 was the best simply cause of a dominant players at there positions (Brandon & Selvie who were like men playin' against boys through out high school), a super cast of players and a couple of anchors who were just garbage men lead by Griffith. Cox's exerpience to mess talent had finally clicked in after the early 80's of losing with better talent and unlike other's, once his team won the city they knew how to win state too. Unbiased since I don't have a high school alligence here
I graduated from East St. Louis Lincoln in 1985. I have not witnessed most of the teams that have been aforementioned, but I think that it is difficult to access players from various generations. Even more, I believe a good neutral assessment of a team/player skill on the high school level is how that skill transferred at the collegiate and beyond. The reason I say that is because a 6'10"+ kid may never encounter a real challenge until college. Moreover, a great team may have inferior coaching thus allowing them to underachieve (1995 Farrugut). Having said that, I have to throw one in for the 1987 Lincoln Tigers. One pro (Laphonso Ellis), a pro football DE (James Harris) and numerous collegiat players. They had solid coaching (not spectacular), good size, experience, balance, and played great competition (losing to the #1 team in the Nation and future Hall of Famer Alonzo Mourning) by 6 points. Everyone else was destroyed. I never saw the '72 Thornridge team but playing with a 6'7" center (unless he plays like Hank Gathers) and one other star that I know of would be difficult against the mobility, athleticism and guard play of King ('86), Lincoln ('87 and '88), Quincy ('81), Manual ('95), Whitney Y. (98'). Finally, I will take great guard play over 2 7 footers and will win (history spells this out time and time again). Note: the '90 East St. Louis Lincoln team with future Purdue star Cuonzo Martin (6'6") and another 6'6" kid and 3 guards almost beat that King team (losing by 11) with all their greatness. Cuonzo had a bum knee that plagued him through college and probably cost him a pro career.
I saw Manley's 1980 state championship team play down state, and I agree with Curtis Jackson's choice of this team being the best team ever.
Danny from Effingham
I talked with my uncle, Stewart Yancy yesterday, and he has seen all four of the following teams play:
'72 Thornrdge,
'54 DuSable,
'58 Marshall
'93 King
'80 Manley.
And, to my surprise; he said he felt the '80 Manley team would have been the best of the four due to how their starting five players complemented each other on the court, and because their bench was two to three men deep with just as talented players.
Stewart Yancy is a young 80 years old now, and I love more than life. He refereed games for over 40 years in Kentucky.
My uncle, Steve Yancy, is 80 years old and sharp as a tack. He refereed for over 40 years in the state of Kentucky. And, never missed the Illinois state basketball tournaments.
I asked him which team he thought was better from the five I gave him:
'54 DuSable
'58 Marshall
'72 Thornridge
'80 Manley
'93 King
And, his answer surprised me, he said he felt the '80 Manley team was better because of how well the staring five played together in their individual roles and that they had a good three man rotation off the bench.
Steve Yancy turned 80 years young yesterday, Happy Birthday unc.
George,
Tell your uncle "Happy Birthday", and I'm curious... Ask Mr. Steve Yancy what team in Kentucky H.S. Basketball history does he think would be as good as (or better) than the Manley 1980 squad?
Curtis K.Jackson Sr.
Are you guys serious! Our 1990 team played through adversity,everytime we stepped on the court. We played Christ the King on NBC were I hit the winning free throws! We embarrased every team we played. When Jamie wasn't playing well he had someone always there to back him up and the same for Johnnie.No I in Team and we showed that! Now Rashard and Thomas along with Jerrod were good because 1990 team beat the hell out of them in practices. Coach taped practices and intersquad games so go to the tapes. Liberty set the tone for players wanting to come to King. Ask Jerrod and Rashard and they will quickly tell you 1990 was the best team! I grew up with Keith Johnson and brought him to King! He WAS never to old!THE ONLY TEAM BETTER THAN KING IN 1990 WAS UNLV! WE HAD THOSE TYPE PLAYERS.People raided our hotel rooms,wanted to buy our practice jerseys and Michael Jordan broadcast the championship game at the Pavillion! We killed Juwan Howard! We played against 12 players that later went Pro down the road.We destroyed coaches dreams and was the best dress team in America! Those biker shorts brought the women out. There will never be a Real Team as 1990
Damion Porter Sr.
1990 King Team
Dammon, I saw all the teams your speaking of, and all of the teams that have been spoken of here. Let me tell you, in a best out of 5, you guys would only maybe win 1 game against the 1980 Manley State Champioship team.
TD
Danville beat your precious King team in 1990. A King team you say was better than the 1993 team. So how can you say the 1993 Final Four teams were aweful when Danville was in that Final Four. It's all moot anyway since "Sonny" paid for his players. Everybody knew it. Danville was the best "legitimate" team in 1993.
No, you are a moron. Check the facts. Danville wasn't even in the Elite Eight in 1990. King won the state title with a 32-0 record. That means no one beat them, dummy. In 1993, King beat Danville 69-38 in the semifinals, then won the state title with a 32-0 record. You need a life. But you know that. You live in Danville.
It is a disgrace to say the 93 king team didnt have guards. Stewart was a great shooter and micheal herman is no doubt one of the most underrated players in illinois basketball history. I mean he went awol for bob knight at iu and came back to start games. Overall the talent level in illinois was loaded in 93. In my opinion they had the perfect team a great shooter in stewart, a super athletic wing in billingsley at 6'4" two d1 bigs at 7 feet and probably the best pg in the state. Ask anyone who played against him.