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Yes, I'm the guy who wrote that Derrick Rose was overrated.
That was back in 2006, when Rose was a junior at Simeon.
I don't regret what I wrote at the time. I still stand by it.
As a senior, however, Rose changed my mind for me.
Let's explain.
As a junior, Rose was rated among the top five players in the nation, a class that included O.J. Mayo, Blake Griffin, Michael Beasley, Kevin Love, Kyle Singler, James Harden and Eric Gordon.
So I argued, quite rightly I thought at the time, that if Rose is to be rated among the best in that elite group, he must be a dominant player. Not a passive performer who is limited to nine points in a state championship game in which his heavily favored team needed an overtime period to survive against a much less talented opponent by a slim 31-29 margin.
I know, Rose took the game in his hands at the very end, driving the length of the floor and scoring the game-winning basket. But wait a minute. Why did it have to come to that? Think about it. If Peoria Richwoods had won, it would have been one of the most embarrassing defeats in the history of the state tournament.
I think Rose learned a lesson. He hasn't taken a passive step since. His aggressive style and leadership qualities as a freshman at Memphis propelled him to the No. 1 selection in the NBA draft and status as one of the two leading rookies in the league this season, already the face of the Chicago Bulls franchise.
So it's time to consider Rose's rightful spot among the greatest players in state high school history. Does he belong on the first team? Is he truly one of the five best players of all-time in Illinois?
A few years ago, I surveyed nearly 100 coaches, former players, sportswriters and sportscasters who have been involved with high school basketball in Illinois since the 1940s. I asked them: Who is the best player you have ever seen?
Isiah Thomas was the leading vote-getter. Then Kevin Garnett, Quinn Buckner, Cazzie Russell, Jay Shidler and George Wilson.
Also mentioned were Mark Aguirre, Dike Eddleman, Bobby Joe Mason, Darius Miles, Sergio McClain, Marcus Liberty, Jon Scheyer, Shaun Livingston, Tim Hardaway and Max Hooper.
Peoria Manual's Dick Van Scyoc, who was the winningest coach in state history when he retired, said Buckner was the best player he saw in 45 years. For those who don't remember the 6-8 Wilson, a three-time all-stater in 1958-60, he was described as "a Scottie Pippin but not as quick."
You either loved Garnett or you described him as a "carpetbagger" who transferred from South Carolina and played only his senior year at Farragut. That fact notwithstanding, at 6-11, the future NBA lottery pick was arguably the single greatest talent of all.
So what is your starting five? Who do you drop to make room for Rose? Or don't you think Rose has earned that spot yet? Whether we agree or not, what a player does beyond high school has a bearing on the evaluations.
My picks? Thomas, Russell, Buckner, Wilson and Rose. With an asterisk on Garnett as the best sixth man you ever saw.
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Thomas, Buckner, Rose, Aguirre, Garnett
Interesting stuff Taylor. I didn't see a lot of the older guys, but I do think that if Scheyer, Livingston and McClain are in the discussion than Quentin Richardson certainly needs to be included. In my opinion, he was better than all three in high school and certainly is in the NBA.
I agree with your 5-6 players. All were exceptional. Like all lists though, there are a few left off who should be considered. I think you have to put Jamie Brandon in the mix. Sure the post-HS years are nothing to speak of, but those four years in HS were absolutely DOMINANT! Ben Wilson too.
Taylor my top 5 which is vague since I have only been in the Chicago area since 1995 are 1)Garnett 2)Richardson 3)Rose 4)Livingston and 5)Scheyer. Ronnie Fields would be my sixth man. I also saw Ben Wilson on TV when the State Tournament was on WGN. Those other guys I have seen in person so they are my in person team. If I was including watching guys on TV Wilson would be second on my list.
Illinois certainly has had a wealth of basketball talent over the years. While they may not have been great high school talents think about George Mikan and Red Kerr.
If you named three teams some great players would be left off.
It was interesting to see Shidler in your column. I saw him play in high school and college and he was a great player.
As I said, someone is going to be left out; Joe Wiley, Dale Kelly, Corey Maggette and the list goes on. . . and on.
Taylor,
I would like to know what in all the years you have been covering Illinois BB what you think was:
1. Strongest Elite 8 field ever.
2. Strongest Elite 8 match up ever.
3. Biggest Elite 8 upset.
Many Thanks,
Jim
I agree with O'Brien, Taylor. Both that this is interesting stuff, and that Quentin Richardson should be in the conversation, too.
Ben Wilson ... what a shame. Imagine what his senior year might have been like, especially with Nick Anderson at Simeon, too.
Overall, though, I'll go with Thomas, Garnett, McClain, Buckner ... and Rose. Somebody's got to get those guys the ball. Rose's performance against O'Fallon in the 2007 AA title game was glorious. He had only two points, but I think virtually everybody who watched the game thought he was the best player on the floor.
As for what happened in 2006, I think Richwoods played above itself all postseason. And after a showdown with Scheyer in the quarterfinals and a city battle with Marshall in the semis, maybe Simeon was a little out of gas and took Richwoods too lightly. If ever a team affirmed the "Peoria mystique" in basketball the last 20-25 years, it was that well-coached, hard-nosed Richwoods team.
Gee, Taylor, you think they'll be talking about the first four-class tournament like this in 20 years? Me, neither.
WOW!!!! Taylor your are absolutely correct in saying the Simeon Peoria Richwoods game should have never been that close. However, it was all in the coaching. It was clear to me as I sat and watched that IHSA final game in Peoria, before heading to Big Al's, that Rose was by far the best player on the floor by far. However, Robert Smith was way down the food chain in ranking of coaches on that floor that night. You see, Rob Smith didn't like Derrick and he held him back a lot. Just look at Derricks freshman year when Rob Smith, who I refuse to call coach, held him back with the sophomore group even though he was the best player that school had at the time. Rob Smith shouldn't be coaching an elementary school team let alone a high school team. He does win I'll give you that, but who couldn't win with the best players in the state year in and year out. Put Rob Smith at Catholic League school and see how many wins he has, I would guess not many. Nice talking again and take care.
What about Corey Maggette???
Mr. Bell,
Welcome to the light. I have always believed that Derrick Rose belonged in the top 5.
I don't have the luxury of seeing all of the best players in the state over the last 50 years. I do remember Buckner, and I have always thought that Isaiah was the best I have ever seen in the state.
I unfortunately never saw Cazzie until later in his NBA career. And I never saw George Wilson, but the Scottie Pippen is my all-time favorite player, and that comparison would have me agree that he belongs in the top 5.
Again, not only is Garnett a "reversed carpetbagger", he also failed to win even 1 game in the Elite 8 while teamed with arguably the greatest "second bannana" in Illinios State High School Basketball history in Ronnie Fields. Greatness needs to win...at least one of the Elite 8 games.
I still maintain that Isaiah Thomas is the best basketball player this state has ever produced. But I would definitely place Derrick Rose #2.
What about Patrick Beverley's senior year at Marshall? He was robbed of the POY award by Schyer. IF we are talking about all time great performances, Beverley's senior season has to be given some serious consideration. BTW Mr. Bell, what is Beverley doing these days? I heard he was playing in Europe?
Clarification. Hambric was still the varsity coach Derrick's freshman year and still calling the shots about the varsity roster. Don't disagree Rob Smith isn't the best coach out there, but can't lay the blame at his doorstep for Derrick being held back to sophomore roster his freshman year. That's how Hambric always did it and he wasn't changing for D-Rose.
McClain, Rose, Livingston, Garnett, Scheyer; if they wanted to go to the hole, they were tough to stop. I'm curious by comment by ed, I don't believe for a moment Catholic League coaches are better than public league coaches. It's a difficult discussion since players are recruited at catholic schools, and you'll find more public school coaches teaching all day than their catholic school counterparts. If you don't think that matters your fooling yourself.