Arizona 41, Chicago 21: Please Go Home Now, Bears

Excellent piece Ricky. You pretty much nailed the major points of this lackluster team.

The Bears have taken all the good karma that they built up from their off season moves (getting Cutler) and just turned this season into a disaster.

I have never seen a Bears teams get this destroyed in near consecutive weeks.

You could make a case that the Bengals game was an aberration, but this Cardinals game proved that it was no fluke and the Bears are worse then what we thought they were!

I can't stand this defense. They get pushed around on the defensive line constantly. They completely collapsed when Tommie Harris went down. So all of a sudden Harris is the heart and soul of this team? No one else could stand up and take leadership after that clown got him thrown out in the early seconds of the game? What about Briggs, he can tackle well, but he needs to take captain of this purtrid defense.

Why aren't people getting on 'Roasted' Peanut Tillman? Tillman is having a garbage season. He is slow as molasses and the only thing he can do effectively is strip the ball cause' he is a mediocre tackler at best.

And the coaching staff blew this game as well. The biggest game of the year if they wanted to make the playoffs and they stunk! No heart or fire. I'm done defending Lovie, he had his chance, time to delete the coaching staff and GM. The players are completely ill prepared for these games.

Playoffs? Are you kidding me? Playoffs?

Out-coached and out-hustled every game. Can't win with these players, can't do it! I apologize for the bad coaching tirades but these cliche's ring true for the Bears. Disgraceful that they can't even put forth a competitive effort. Time to look for suitable replacement candidates. Cowher, Shanahan, Fisher would be upgrades. Dungy wouldn't come because he is too good friends with Lovie and frankly can't stand hearing or seeing the 'Tampa Screwed', I mean 'Tampa 2' right now.

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I'm tickled...and Ricky, for crying out loud; what do you mean you don't know how the Bears got to this point?...pull up everything I've written about this organization over the last however many years and months....

but right now...It wasn't a QB we needed, and we darn sure didn't need to mortgage the future for one...Especially one that isn't a leader or a winner...just an athlete with an arm?

The Bears will be bad for years to come, and you can blame Angelo and his lap dog Lovie

I'm not gonna get into why anymore...these other guys are doing a pretty good job of repeating everything I've said....and on both blogs now, too

Satisfying laughs the last few weeks....thanks

and for a little more salt for yo well deserved wounds...
Don't miss Tonight's game with should-be-Bears Kyle Orton and Rashard Mendenhall

This organization makes me sick....but I called it, and that makes it extremely easy to swallow

You can start calling the Bears defense the Tampon-2 because it may be better than nothing… but it does not really stop the bleeding.

Jerry fell in love with late round finds and now believes that he can build a team off of 4th and 5th round picks.
When he is not trading down he is trading the picks away all together.
There is no need to go over his draft selections again. That has been done and everyone here knows the man has a long history of draft day failures.
Where is Gains Adams? What have you got to lose by playing him at this point?
I thought that he already knew the system so what are they waiting for? That 2nd round pick could have brought in an offensive lineman from a draft that should be deep in them but I guess that the O line is just fine in Jerry's world.
Jerry Angelo is an idiot.

Lovie fell in love with Lovie.
Lovie also fell in love with undersized defensive players and they get pushed around more than a broom in a sawmill.
He does not have the personal to play his stupid Cover-2 and he will not let it go. He has no back up plan and he has no answers during the game.
The team is never ready to play and they are undisciplined.
Since canning Ron Rivera the D has gone into the toilet and you can blame Lovie Gump for that.
Rivera was knowledgeable in several defensive schemes but he was a threat to Lovie and that was all it took. He surrounded himself with buddies and I don't mean Ryan's either.
Lovie Smith is an idiot.

This is never going to end unless the team is sold or the McCaskey's suddenly come to their senses and clean house and bring in the best football people they can find.
Alas Papa Bear’s off spring know nothing about the game and they love a bargain.
The McCaskeys are idiots.

Don't want to eat Lovie's $10 million?
Take a collection from the Bears fans that would fork over $10 or $20 each to see him shown the door.
I would gladly send them a check so they can fix the team that I have spent 40+ years of my life supporting.
Hold a 25$ a ticket raffle and the winner gets to walk into Lovie's office and tell him to have his stuff packed and off the premises by the end of the day. As a bonus you get to rip his name off the door and toss it into the nearest wood chipper.
Take a trip to Jerry’s office and throw out everything in it and then spray it down with Lysol.

With no 1st or 2nd round picks lined up it is time to let someone come in and make the deals needed to clear out the place.
Dump the content and well paid and maybe get back some draft picks for the future.
You have a real QB so there is a future but it is not this year and it is not next year either.
Someone will give you draft picks for players if you package them right but they need the right person pulling the trigger and right now they do not have those kind of people in charge.

I can deal with them rebuilding but only if it is with Angelo and Lovie long gone.

Here is a post I wrote on a Tribune blog more than two years ago - true then, and still true today. I saw this coming but most didn't want to hear it.......

The Window Is Closed
Posted by: JohnF | Oct 15, 2007 10:52:57 AM

The Superbowl window is now officially closed – if there ever was a window. The Bears were very fortunate last year. They played in a weak division, with a weak schedule and had relatively few injuries. They played a quarterback who, due to the lack of significant pressure, put up tremendous numbers 6 of the first 7 games. Once consistent pressure was applied, it was painfully apparent that he could not play well consistently. To the detriment of the team he was allowed to continue. The Bears barely beat a Seattle team with an injured running back and a quarterback with a broken hand. They then beat a young, inexperienced New Orleans team – and even then, not until the Saints made several mistakes late in the game. We all know what happened in the Superbowl.

The perception created after last year was a false one – that the Bears were a team poised for several attempts at championships. It was obvious to me that this was not the case at the time and the continued use of Grossman was a terrible mistake, but an understandable one given the Bears coaches’ (and management’s) acceptance of this false perception. If you believe that you are smart rather than lucky you make mistakes like this. Every year, every game, they stuck with Grossman, the offensive and defensive lines got older, as did receivers, linebackers, etc. The Bears have been living off of Mark Hatley’s draft picks and overpaid free agents ever since Jerry Angelo got here.

The Bears organization, as it is currently constituted, cannot consistently coach well nor draft well. When players are given jobs without competition, that is bad coaching. When players that are playing badly or uninspired football are not removed from the field, that is bad coaching. When assistant coaches are chosen because they are long-time buddies of the head coach, that is bad coaching. When year after year, 1st and 2nd round choices fail, that is bad scouting. There is a reason that New England, Pittsburg, Indianapolis (just to name a few teams) are consistently prepared to challenge for a championship – good coaching and consistently good drafting of high early round choices. The Bears can do neither. The last time the Bears were good at this was in the early 80’s, when Mr. Halas, a smart “football” guy, still had a say in the Bears organization. His choice of Coach Ditka and Jim Finks helped solidify the Bears throughout the rest of that decade. Were it not for the untimely death of his son Mugs, we might have a much different “football smart” organization now.

The Bears are not run by smart football people. They have hired incompetent coaches and management. And after years like 2006, because they know nothing about football, they extend contracts of incompetent people that perpetuate bad football. They have done this over and over since Mr. Halas died: extended Wannstedt after two 9-7 seasons, Jauron after one 13-3 season, Smith after an 11-5 and 13-3 season. Why would they do this? Because they don’t know what a talented coach or GM looks like. All they see is the record and think they are smart – rather than lucky.

So where does this leave us? Unless and until the McCaskey’s sell the Bears we are doomed to see a repeat of this cycle. The occasional lucky year, followed by an extension of the contracts of incompetent people, followed by their firing, followed by the hiring of more incompetents, with maybe another lucky year, etc...etc...etc...

Hey, hey, hey, what the hell I got to do with the Bears' defense?!

No wonder nobody wants to play in Chicago. I ain't even a freaking football player and you harping about my defense, Ricky.

Ricky, if you didn't know, basketball is not a violent game like football. Okay? So just leave me alone until I come to town and scorch the Bulls for 30 or 40 points.

By the way, my buddy Ced B. told me to ask if any Chicago sports writer(s) want to go out on his boat? BETTER BRING YOUR OWN LIFE PRESERVER - ALL OF HIS ARE FILLED WITH CEMENT. Ha Ha Ha Ha

Ricky my man look at Kyle Orton! It is amazing how well you perform when you have talent around you!

Until I come play against the Bulls, keep my name out of your blogs and newspapers dude! Ha Ha Ha Ha

I still believe in Jay Cutler however. What an ironic shame that it is that we FINALLY get that quarterback and the rest of the team is awful and that includes the coaching staff.

Angelo has to go - has assembled a bunch of awful draft picks and has let a 2nd rate coaching staff get this team embarrassed several times already this year.

Lovie has to go - his stuborness to stick with a defensive scheme that doesn't fit personnel is only exceeded by his inept defensive calls and horrific assistant coaches. a 500 record doesn't quite go with with HIGHEST PAID COACH in the nfl...higher than Belicheck btw

Good news my sundays are free rest of year...

I'm kind of curious to see where the Lovie supporters are now to defend him this time around? I also said preseason that there were no more excuses for Lovie this season this time around. The past 2 disaster seasons of not making the playoffs and I got roasted in the blogs for criticizing Lovie as head coach, being accused of the "R" word and all that. Well, I'm still not going to join in on the bandwagon again until the end of the season because of course, when the Lovie supporters finally speak up again and make excuses of overall career record and the tired "it's the players that win the games, not coaches" line, then that's fine, I'll let the more outspoken Bears blogger take over from there.

Again, for me, if and when the Bears decide improve player personnel again, they're going to have to go through Free Agency and start with the 2 Offensive and Defensive lines first on up to the wide receiver playmakers. They can't rely on the draft now because of the Cutler trade and the fact that they've bombed a lot of the recent high draft picks. Whether you want to blame that all that on Angelo for misevaluation or Lovie and the staff (Marinelli included) for failing to develop players to their strengths, I'll leave that to the diehard Bears fans' judgment. I can see it now though, Lovie at the end of a failed season say... "We'll be a better defense next season with a healthy Brian Urlacher and a healthy Tommie Harris..." Oh boy, I sure hope it doesn't come to that. At this point, if these guys don't want to play with any heart and effort on the field, then you might as well start putting in Aromashadu, Iglesias, Gilbert, Shaffer, Gaines Adams and those guys and see what you got with the other players that haven't had much playing time. Why not? Please someone tell me. The starting regulars right now are a joke.

Phil - You are simply the BEST!
Lovie Gump and Tampon-2 Defense (that does not stop the bleeding)
Priceless.....

I will still defend Lovie though. Not his fault to a greater extent. You could have ALL of those coaches you mentioned above - in fact lets just go all the way and say ALL of the Coaches that ever coached the game rolled into one guy - and still would not be able to come up with more than probably 1 more win this season than Lovie did. Barring that you could not move Turner. He simply does not have the horses. He has one very good horse throwing the ball, but thats negated by a bad line and not having any true studs catching the ball. I have been watching closely since Lovie got here. I think he knows better too and is a company guy - which is why Lovie will not say anything about his players or management and why Angelo WILL NOT fire him.

And Mike Holgrem is the ONLY guy I would be up for coaching in Chicago. He knows our division and how to deal with a top gun like Cutler.

How long before Cutler blows up? Thanks for Orton. Colorado Springs

I Have Seen The Bears Future....

Angelo is gonna let Lovie run this thing into the ground, then fire him after 2011.

You see, Angelo is signed through 2013, so he can fire Lovie after 2011, save the ownership from paying out $11 million (which they would owe if they can Lovie early), then hire a new (much cheaper) head coach (which will make the McCaskey's happy) who will struggle for 2 years because the Bears will have no one decent except Cutler left.

Then Angelo's contract comes up in 2013.

He'll say, "Well, Ted Phillips....you should re-sign me because the new coach is struggling and he needs some continuity." And Philips is just stupid enough to buy that line of crap and he'll re-sign Angelo for another 5 years - so we'll be stuck with him until 2018 because Philips has NO idea what a competent GM looks like.

And Angelo will blow virtually every 1st and 2nd round draft choice (like he usually does) and the new coach will luck into a couple of 9-7 seasons (like Wannstedt did) and Angelo will say, "You know Ted, we are on the upswing here, and we don't want Coach ______ to get away, we should extend him for 5 years". And Philips is just stupid enough to buy that line of crap and he'll re-sign Coach ________ for another 5 years (with a big fat raise) because Angelo told him to do it, and because Philips also has no idea what a competent head coach looks like.

See my post from 2 years ago, the Bears are like a broken record since 1993.......

Alright JohnF, I'm glad you predicted what you said 2 years ago or 10 years ago... that's great, ok? Same with the boisterous Hitman. I agree that the problem digs down deep within the organization suits and their cheap business philosophies. It's similar to the Chicago Bulls, roll the dice with cheap young head coaches with no experience and perhaps they'll strike gold with a hidden coach gem like Phil Jackson! To heck with signing high priced free agents, just build cheaper through the draft and award the guys internally who shine and develop into stars. I've known that this organization has done this for years also. Now are the chances of a Mike Shanahan or a Bill Cowher coming to the Bears slim? Are the McCaskeys unbelievably stubborn? Of course it is and of course they are, but as a fan, what's the point of a defeatist attitude in saying that it's a broken record or that it's hopeless that the organization will ever change? What good is it to say the "I told you so's" to the other bloggers? I say continue the hate mail directed to the team! Keep up with the blog rants towards the organization! There's nothing like negative press and negative public perception that might prompt change. Do something! The negative outspoken opinions directed to the organization will take its toll eventually. Tell some of your richer pals who go to the games to stop spending on the team and then perhaps that'll wake them up with an urgency to improve the product on the field! The Bears are one of the major football markets in all of the NFL. There's absolutely no reason why they can't open up their pocketbooks to improve the team even if the last resort is to take a temporary step backwards and cut losses like firing the head coach or the GM in the middle of their contract term. It can be done, but if the majority fan population would rather bicker among themselves about who's more or less at fault or who writes with better grammar, then the Execs with the deep pockets will just continue to laugh their way to the banks while the sucker fans continue to sell out Soldiers Field.

Hitman, I too was disappointed they didn't get Mendenhall, however,as
I look back, If I Would have known the Bears were into giving up more than one first round pick, then they should have traded up to get Vontae Davis...that there is a man's man, and a postion we all knew we needed and still do. But enough of the woulda shoulda coulda's let's look to the present. what do I see? Boy, the Raiders are terrible. Everbody in the world sees this but you. That's why you got no cred's,and no proper's in the future either. I saw the Bears Lambaste the Cardinals 21-10 in the second half.What a great team.
Such potential...if they had any guards up front instead of 4 tackles,
then they would be able to run THEIR game(the bears are one of the
few teams that still pull and trap),instead of this wussy AFC style 'area' blocking.The 'D' is terrible w e1 injured...but what doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger. This will be a great team UNLIKE the Raiders. Unlike Orton. Both have NO future.

Put Hester back on Kickoffs, let Bennett and Knox get some experience.
Go with 2 TE's and put that big kid Kellen Davis at FB or someone who can help block. And SUCK IT UP.

We are 4-4. Anyone who knows anything about the NFL, knows its a long season.

FYI...Orton just threw his second pick and I swear I saw him throw an underhand pass tonight. HOLY COW..that dude is soooo bad. I would rather be 0-8 and watch someone with game like Cutler, than watch that itchy pirate throw limp wristed crap all over the field.

We would have killed to be .500 a few years ago. Does anyone remember the Henry Burris experiment? Shane Matthews anyone?

Dont act like we are hopeless. There are a thousand fatboy cornfed Iowa lineman we can pick up in the 287 Round Draft next year.

Hitman. you dont know crap about Football dude...

Benson is the LEague MVP and you wanted Adrian Peterson Jr to start instead.

Orton sucks. Mendenhal is laughable.

Get a clue...or stop sniffing glue...or whatever...but all you have shown is that you have a stalker style love/hate obsession for Angelo.

I have never seen a Man talk so much about another Man in my life.

IT creeps me out actually.

As for the rest of you...BUCK THE BLEEP UP.

Your Bears Fans dammit. Act like it.

Steelers 28 - Denver 10

ORTON = GARBAGE

Make that 3 Picks...and 19 Limpys...for Orton!

I am one of the many who could say "I told you so..." about this organization --- but that has nothing to do with being smarter than anyone else. Rather, it has to do with just knowing the history of the ownership!

With all due respect, this ownership group hasn't a clue on how to win. But let's also be serious, this organization hasn't won but two times since 1946! That's 63+ seasons and only 2 championships! On average that comes to more than 30 years between championships! How pathetic is THAT!!??

But back to the here-and-now ... After the '07 post-season I listed all of JA's drafts and pointed out how pathetic his record is (hasn't gotten any better) So "Angelo's got to go!"

As for Lovie, most fans realize he is not a top coach, but he has done pretty well with the talent he has had - until he meets a more talented team (whether slightly or significantly better) and then he bombs. But Lovie can't make adjustments like the top coaches and it looks like he is losing his players. Neither is he pliable to adjust the scheme enough to suit the strengths of the players. The players sense this - note the recent interview of Hillenmeyer. Quite frankly, I see Lovie cutting Hillenmeyer for his honesty before cutting #91 for his stupidity/lack of play-for-pay-on-contract. For that "Lovie-o must go!" (Sorry, just trying to keep the rhyme going)

But every fan knows this ain't happenin'!!! The owners are too content with squeezing every penny out of this "piggy bank" --- kind of ironic due to the stench of this team the last few weeks! But honestly, they wouldn't get rid of this "brain trust" (stretching the use of that term, here, huh?!?) in a great economy would you really think they'd do it in this economy?? No way!!

So get used to more of Lovie "Abbott" Smith and Jerry "Costello"
Angelo (Costangelo??? Work with me, guys...) because they aren't going anywhere soon.

Unfortunately, I am resigned to that fact for at least another season. Oh well, there's always these blogs...

My last two posts on the previous thread never saw the light of day, so I think I'll take a hiatus.

Don't know what's up with that, but when I take the time and effort to pen my semi-coherent ramblings, I expect them to be included in the discussion.

Since I never use foul language or name calling (other than in polite and friendly jest) there is no reason for my opinions to be excluded from the dialog.

Missing Stu already.

Ricky responds: I saw one comment that got lost in the shuffle, I approved it and responded to it. Thanks.

Hey, been a while since I've been on this thread. Not since Roman's last post.

Ricky O, how's it going man? Had to smile when I saw this: "It's Lovie's fault for being too stubborn to deviate from a surely broken system." Haha, a year ago you were defending that clown after that blowout loss to Green Bay. I think this time around we're all on the same page?

"Whether you want to blame that all that on Angelo for misevaluation or Lovie and the staff (Marinelli included) for failing to develop players" -Edgar

Lol Edgar. I remember we had a downright bloody battle over Marinelli's impact way back when. C'mon, you can say it, "You were right Mike..." :P

Hitman, boy oh boy Orton really shined today didn't he? Man, maybe you should go back to writing your nonsensical poems.

Patrick Conley from CO Springs...you're MORE than welcome

Bears problems run all the way up through Halas Hall. The culture of no accountability and no performance goes right to the top. The resistance to change and to demanding excellence is absent at all levels, no one wants to lose their cushy job on the bears gravy train. Then you have media shills like Mike Mulligan who spend their time spewing the company line and dismissing any criticism just to keep in favor of the Bears brass.

So what are the chances of any changes? 100% chance of change happening, Lovie has been exposed as a lousy coach, angelo has been exposed as a joke of a gm, it doesn't matter if Phllips and minions like mulligan refuse to acknowledge this. Just ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, just because some small time chicago media hack won't admit that a change is to happen won't stop it from happening. Ted Phillips, Angelo, and Lovie are now nationally recognized as failures. The national media knows it, bears fans know it. Eventually even the Mckaskys will be forced to admit it too.

Edgar has a very valid point and believe me if I still lived in the Chicago area I would not be going to any games at soldier field or the UC. I continue to watch the Bulls on the League pass but I also watch many other games because I enjoy basketball more than football. After the first quarter of the Cincy blow out I even turned off the live stream radio broadcast on my computer. They have a few nationally televised games yet this year and IF I watch them it will be because there is absolutely nothing else on that night. Until Lovie and his pathetic staff and system are gone I don't even want that garbage on my screen, infact I hope at this point the Bears don't win another game then maybe something will have to be done about Lovie.
I'm also tired of reading comments about Orton regardless of whether they're good or bad, he's no longer in Chicago and therefore no longer relevant unless he hangs a blowout loss on the Bears.

Orton Shined like a turd rolled in baby powder!

Here's the big difference, Mike... I don't mind if I'm wrong and if you need me to say that you were spot on about Marinelli for your self satisfaction, no sweat off my back, you got it. But the problem with the team digs deeper than just Marinelli, it always has. I could easily say this is just year 1 for him and it's totally unfair to assess a d-line coach in just a half a season, especially when you have a def. coordinator who who designs the plays that are getting burned consistently game in and game out, but I won't go there because like I said, I'll wait until after the season is done before I start ranting on the head coach again. And what are you talking about bloody battle? All I said was that it was a good hire to get Marinelli on board. Instead of just bragging about how right you are, how about offering some insight to what the team can do to improve outside of overhauling the entire coaching staff and GM?

By Philtration on November 9, 2009 1:55 PM

You can start calling the Bears defense the Tampon-2 because it may be better than nothing… but it does not really stop the bleeding.

Phil, remember the ladies who comment to FCP. Yes, it is funny, but insensitive. This is the stuff that gets us guys in trouble and then we standing going "WHAT?"

Cutler looks similar to Orton. This is why I felt Orton was not the problem and did not get as elated as others when the trade for Cutler was made. We have a team where the QB can manage the game, NOT have a shootout with the other team. We do not even play four and five receiver sets. We do not play hurry up offense. We do not...oh what the heck, we don't do a LOT OF THINGS! And you guys already know what they are.

Just terrible play on both sides of the ball.

Orton has one bad game and you're jumping around like a bunch of chicks in a wet T-Shirt contest? I know you have the boobs for it but still..how many more picks and fumbles does Cutler have?

Benson is the league MVP?...barely over 4ypc?...Mendenhall is laughable?...to the tune of how many ypc?

John F:

Excellent analysis; well written and spot on from top to bottom.

You've taken all of their shortcomings and rolled them into a clinically correct diagnosis of the Stage 4 cancer currently afflicting the Bears.

For those of you unfamiliar with oncology, there is only one prognosis for Stage 4 cancer ... Stage 5, which is usually comes with a nice wreath of flowers.

But no Lombardi Trophy on the headstone.

Sorry Anon but I am not one of those squeamish, politically correct, hysterical mouse types who feels embarrassed when they put toilet paper in their shopping cart but if anyone else would like to be then go right ahead.
Women know all about tampons and if me writing the word here was the only time that they had to deal with them then I am pretty sure that they would be really happy about that.
Me saying “tampon” cannot be any more offensive then watching the Bears attempt at football the over the last month.

Are you going to be ok?
Can I get you a tissue and a non-alcoholic beer?

Philtration, there was nothing wrong with your joke. Anon probably uses the aforementioned tampons.

Edgar, you were quite adamant that Marinelli was the real deal. In fact, a lot of Bears fans and media types sung his praises. After the first few games against the likes of the Packers, Steelers and Lions, all these people were gushing about how incredible Rod is and how he is an absolute miracle worker and now...now all his fans are quiet.

They gave Rod the game ball after the Lions game. People attributed any sacks or pressure to him and his remarkable understanding of the game. Nevermind we played against some of the worst lines in football early on and then got exposed for what we were and have been when we played teams with actual o-lines.

So yeah, call me petty or say that I'm bragging or whatever, but a few other guys and myself took a lot of crap for several months for not jumping aboard the Marinelli bandwagon. We knew a position coach would make little to no difference for a team that sorely needed a replacement for Tommie Harris. I pointed out that he was Mr. Lucky having been on the Tampa squad that made it a priority to get elite defensive line talent for the Cover-2. And then Mr. Lucky got lucky again when the senile old man Ford and clueless Millen wanted him as a head coach. He's a fraud, Edgar. Nothing special about coach Rod and there never was. Just lucky. And as everyone knows, luck runs out at some point.

"Cutler looks similar to Orton"

OMG...the only similarity he has to Cutler is the position he plays.

Don't get me wrong, Orton is still the same QB - relying on accurate 8 year throws so his receivers can make gains. This year he has 2 REAL good ones.

This Orton hysteria is getting out of control...

You are wrong Mike.
There is something very special about Marinelli.
He is Lovie's Tampa Bay fishing buddy!

That alone makes you a God among coaches.
If that were not true then that would mean that Lovie is clueless when it comes to running an NFL team and with 2 years left on his contract that just can't be.
Or can it? (Rick Telander imitation there)

Philtration, there was nothing wrong with your joke. Anon probably uses the aforementioned tampons.

Edgar, you were quite adamant that Marinelli was the real deal. In fact, a lot of Bears fans and media types sung his praises. After the first few games against the likes of the Packers, Steelers and Lions, all these people were gushing about how incredible Rod is and how he is an absolute miracle worker and now...now all his fans are quiet.

They gave Rod the game ball after the Lions game. People attributed any sacks or pressure to him and his remarkable understanding of the game. Nevermind we played against some of the worst lines in football early on and then got exposed for what we were and have been when we played teams with actual o-lines.

So yeah, call me petty or say that I'm bragging or whatever, but a few other guys and myself took a lot of crap for several months for not jumping aboard the Marinelli bandwagon. We knew a position coach would make little to no difference for a team that sorely needed a replacement for Tommie Harris. I pointed out that he was Mr. Lucky having been on the Tampa squad that made it a priority to get elite defensive line talent for the Cover-2. And then Mr. Lucky got lucky again when the senile old man Ford and clueless Millen wanted him as a head coach. He's a fraud, Edgar. Nothing special about coach Rod and there never was. Just lucky. And as everyone knows, luck runs out at some point.

I understand your frustration with my frustration although my main beef is that they extended Lovie in the first place.

The vast majority of comments to my original 2007 post were along the lines of, "What do you know about football", "Don't you remember what it was like before Lovie got here", "We are going to contend for years".....I knew there was no way it was gonna happen.

My clue was how they dealt with Grossman. It showed me how these guys (Lovie & Angelo) get "married" to a player and how it blinded them to how lucky an opportunity they had to win a championship. I could have lived with this current mess and given Lovie way more slack than I have these last few years if he had only played Griese (or even Orton) in the SB. That year the stars had aligned for our defense and special teams - the only thing that could screw it up was playing the wrong guy at QB. And they did that.

You see, if they had just given me that championship, it would have been something tangible I could have that would balance out all of the nonsense we as fans have had to put up with for the last two and a half years. But because of their stupidity, we have nothing.

By the way, the McCaskeys aren't cheap anymore - it is even worse than that. They are spending huge sums of money on the wrong people.

That is where the problem lies, the McCaskeys aren't "football" smart, which is why complaining to the team ownership isn't going to change anything. Not going to games isn't going to change anything - there are thousands of suckers waiting to buy season tickets thinking Lovie and Angelo will turn this thing around.

Even if the McCaskeys thought it was good for the organization to eat Lovie's bloated salary and fire him, they have no clue who to pick next and have no ability to know whether Angelo's pick for a new coach had any merit.

Mike - Again, all I said was that Rod was a good hire at the time as a d-line position coach specialist, but I know for a fact that I NEVER said that he was the savior for the entire defense. We needed someone to at least help improve the techniques of the d-linemen to hopefully improve the line play in trenches and he had the credentials behind him not only from media buffs, but from people INSIDE the league themselves! At the time, how can you say that hiring mr. fraud will hurt this team more than help? He’s just a D-Line assistant coach. So basically, are you saying that the Bears were better off leaving the same entire assistant staff from last season intact? Mike, when I blog, I don’t try to win a contest about who knows football or whatever sport more. I’m just offering up my opinions and if it just so happens that I get into a debate with someone, so be it, but I don’t care for style points to myself in winning an argument. That's just not me. I’m more than glad to give my props to a blogger if it’s a good post. I’ve done it many times. I just want the team to do better and hopefully be heard, that’s all. I’ve played the game too way back then in high school and Division 1 College ball. It’s not like I don’t have a clue about the game and the sport. Pro sports politics, that’s a different story, but I’m old enough to finally get it now just like I get it with my beloved Chicago Bulls, of which I rip apart constantly even though that’s my preferred favorite sport.

Besides, I know on more than one occasion during preseason Training Camp, as a follow-up to all the offseason moves by the Bears, I still said that the key to the defense was Lovie being primarily responsible for calling the plays, designing the schemes and making adjustments to that scheme when necessary because we all know that not one defensive scheme is perfect. What worked in the almost-Super Bowl 2006 season was finally exposed as the true fraud of a defensive scheme. That’s the real fraud here, Mike, the Tampa-2 scheme. No adjustments, man! What good is a great scheme when you don’t have the right personnel drafted AND developed for it? What good is coaching up to a player’s strength on the field when you got guys like Nick Roach being experimented at the Middle LB slot IN THE MIDDLE OF THE REGULAR SEASON where he doesn’t belong or Hunter moved at the outside when he’s better suited as a backup middle lb? And who knows, maybe if we didn’t lose 2 linebacker starters in Urlacher and Tinoisamoa right in the very first game of the season, how do we know that solid linebacking play would have been the right recipe to fill in the gaps or maybe cover-up the deficiencies on the defensive line? Fans are clamoring on getting rid of Tommie Harris, but guess what, who do we have better to replace him on roster if he’s gone? No one. This line is all but worthless as it is now without Harris, like him or not, because they’re either too young and inexperienced or just not talented enough to handle the 3-technique skill set. Based on what I’ve seen, if the Bears are too cheapo to find someone from the outside to replace Tommie Harris, then an injured, half-a$$ Tommie Harris is already better than Marcus Harrison or Anthony Adams or Idonije. Agree or no? You see, this is the kind of discussion I’m looking for…

Hitman, here is how you completely expose yourself.

Forte has a rookie of the year performance, and puts up over 1000 yards. and Mendenhal has had 1.5 Good games, and you turn your back on your guy for the percieved greener grass on Pittsburghs cold mt.

Dude...

you have been wrong about Benson, Wrong about Forte, Wrong about Orton vs. Cutler...

what have you been right about? That you like tranE's in wife beaters....comeon..we all knew that already ;)

Culzie...in defense of Hitman...e1 was wrong about Benson....or were we??? Mendenhall is the REAL deal...if he doesn't keep his ego in check...then he will be another 'Bears Benson'.

I ranted for the Bears to draft Mendenhall, Joe Flacco or Chris Johnson in that draft.
Instead we got Chris Williams, Matt Forte, Earl Bennett and Marcus Harrison in the first 3 rounds.
Look at the talent that Jerry passed over to take an O lineman with a bad back in the first round.
None of those players were sleepers and had shown a lot of NFL potential before draft day but Jerry likes to be clever and take guys with injuries and small college players.

With 4 picks in the first 3 rounds they could have made a deal and gotten two of the players that I mentioned.
How much better would they be if they had Flacco and Johnson while still having their draft picks to fix the O line?
We will never know right Jerry?

I always stuck up for Benson. I would say "I saw flashes of Greatness" and that he had game. I never gave up on Benson...

the rest of you fell for the sweet siren of "without rex and ced"...

I DIDNT.

no, I'm not wrong...and you seeing flashes of greatness in a RB who is nowhere near great...expected...TJ is still out-performing Benson in case you haven't noticed

Forte's 1000yards? at 3.9ypc?...Salaam and ATrain had 1000, too, Sporto

Feet, Vision, and squaring the shoulders are how you judge a RB...incidently, ypc follows....free lesson Culzie, and you're welcome...recap: YARDS PER CARRY

and Oh Lookie...Pittsburgh/Cincinnatti for first place in the division this Sunday...wow, Culzie, you're going to be wrong once again sooner than I thought...

and Trannys?...well, I'll admit I would jump and shave at the chance to play Frankenfurter in Rocky Horror....I was a Gay Priest a few months ago, tho...that's gotta count for something

and I hope everyone will join me tomorrow and watch the Niners game with their pants around their ankles in support of Samurai Mike

Bears are going to blow for some time unless the house cleaning takes place from the top/down this year

It never cease to amaze me how people seem to relish negativity and confrontation. I've noticed several bloggers who only seem to show themselves when they can sit and shout "I told you they would suck". Hell one guy waits two years to bring his old blog entry into the equation. But guess what: when we were 3-1 we didn't hear a peep from him. And now another guy comes on and acknowledge that he hasn't been here since the Roman times. What does that say. You weren't a fan of FCP. Why should anyone endure your self-serving entries now? Sure, we're not looking very good right now. But why is it that it always come back to solely blaming Lovie and his coaches(and the Ron Rivera departure) when in reality it's a little of all of the above. Now hear this: Lovie Smith isn't a great coach. Fair enough. His supporters can get a grip on that. But in all honesty not one of them ever said he was great. How many great coaches are still in the NFL? Who went out on top who wouldn't be exposed if he had to deal with what this team has to offer? You want to know why this defense sucks more than anything else? Two words: Mike Brown. He missed quite a few games over the years and everyone was looking to replace him. Even after he played 15 games. He didn't get any respect from the guys who make the decisions about contracts. Hell, not one person above even brought his name up as a missing piece of the puzzle. Which makes you wonder why all the complainers never bring that up as a reason. Everyone just said that he shouldn't be trusted. So they went out and replaced him and you see the results. Alfava will be good one day be he's like any other rookie who is being exposed. We already knew that Manning was so-so and now he's still being so-so as a leader. What would you expect the results to be? Plus we lost Urlacher we is still a good player. If you aren't as good as you were no one can call you great. But honestly do you think that a defensive minded coach wanted to part with a rare player such as Mike Brown? I can see a defensive coach parting with good or average offensive players because that isn't their forte(no pun intended). But we've parted with Chris Harris who had a great first year away who isn't the player his was in 2007. But still people want to bring his name up as a loss. Who was crucifying him at the end of 2006? He wasn't missed by these so-called fan experts until he played so unlike what he did for us. Now you guys want to say that players took on their coach's mentality. So John Fox and Marvin Lewis are sideline screamers? Lewis was thisclose to being fired. Wasn't he on some hot seat just last year? Wasn't a quarter of his players getting locked up? Didn't he bring more "jail birds' in during this past off-season? Isn't Fox's team in the same category as the Bears? And please think before you mention Cowhers' and Shanahan's name again as potential replacements. It took Cowher 14 years to win a Super Bowl after it took him just about the same amount of time it took for Him and Lovie both to lose their first time out. Shanahan hasn't won anything since John Elway retired. And to give you some context for how long ago that was: Elway's son is playing in college now. Gruden took a team to the Super bowl and won against his old players that he failed to even get to a Super bowl. He won with someone's else's players. And some other guy took Cowher's old players to a Super Bowl and won just two years at the helm. Is that Cowher's win or the other guy's? Maybe that has something to do with the ownership and upper management. Don't act like that is not possible. Our teams were losing before Lovie ever got here. Now that we've emptied the cupboards whose fault is that?Trading a 2nd round pick for someone else's failures. How bright is the off season with no pick before the 3rd round? Wonder why the line is not playing great? Maybe trading for your replacement while you're still playing has set some guys back somewhat. I know everyone has to play up to their potential and "man up" but with the mix we have it's harder to do. We have a very young team. Young players in the position where they should be more experienced and players too old in positions we should be younger. Predicting a better record is just fans thinking best for their team. Predicting losing is just an extention of a person's character. Angelo and Smith's failures are more than anything else a common

William mentions Mike Brown; an astute observation about a player who has been sorely missed.

He suffered some serious, unfortunate, and freak injuries, but there were few players in the entire league who were his equal when he was healthy. (Troy Polamalu is one of the rare exceptions)

Brown wasn't just a leader of thier defense, he was the glue.
Industrial grade epoxy / portland cement / titainium strenght material that isn't found on a frequent basis, and this team misses him dearly. IMHO Mike Brown sitting on the sidelines in a cast was worth more to that team than Tommy Harris is on the field wearing pads.

Mike Brown was one helluva a football player, and without the string of injuries he surrered would have had a HOF career.

I can't say the same for Dusty the Busty who also spent the great majority of his short NFL career on the IR.

Angelo and Smith's failures are more than anything else a common occurence due to what they are supposed to work with and who they are working for. Blowing money on washed up players who everyone in the league knew was washed up and spending money on free agents that no one else wants is a sign of someone not doing well on their job. Just whose job is it to reward players with very limited abilities? Handcuffing someone will get the results we are getting. You need talent to win in the NFL. We just don't have enough of it on this team. Blame whoever you like but spread it around evenly.

"Blowing money on washed up players who everyone in the league knew was washed up and spending money on free agents that no one else wants is a sign of someone not doing well on their job."

Hahahahahaha. If Angelo was a MLB general manager, he'd make the Brock for Broglio trade every single time, without exception.

And if you asked him about it, he'd stand there with a straight face and tell you tha it was a good move.

Good stuff William. You know I like fairness. I have often asked if Cutler could do it ALL??? He can't. I know he is having regrets too. He started having them right after he got off the ground hurting and every time after that. Everyone was optimistic and you have to be going into a new season, but besides QB I asked, what did we really address??? That Cutler signing was a smooth slight of hand misdirection on the part of Angelo. It stopped people from looking at the truth. Stopped everyone but a few, with HIMAN leading the charge. Chicago fans are like a loyal dog who follows the fake throw every time!!!

And the BULLS did the same trick with that - "We are going to get Dwayne Wade next year" crap. So they gave away 20ppg and pretty much forefeited this season. Bulls can hold opponents under 90ppg, but can't score 85. I guess the other teams are just better defensively??? MY EYE.

William is right. Hold people accountable - ALL OF THEM, not just the guys you don't like for whatever reason.

Bears are going down tonight. I hope they win, but I believe they are going down. And that will be really bad because they were called out - badly.

WRD, you shoulder must be hurting you. Bears have 2nd best record in
NFC since 2005....they are doing a great job, who hasn't drafted a first round bust? No one was more handcuffed than Rex grossman....at least they are changing the offense for gunslinger Cutler, and justifiably so. Pace isn't washed up, other wise the Bears would be starting a very capable tackle in Schaffer. Pace just can't run block...that is not what they signed him for. It's not the o-line...but rather young and inexperienced receivers that will only get better with time....that are causing troubles for Cutler.
The Defense is horribly injured and the back-ups are getting valuable growing time...at least we can see now that we need to get rid of Hunter....that is the only change that the defense needs....it hurts me to say this, but next year (unfortunatley not this year), you will see the best tackler in the league(Tinoisamoa) and Urlacher
back on one of the most dominating defenses the Bears ever fielded.
this smells like 1984....before the storm....as we know it.
gooooooooooooooooo bearsssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!

Yea for Culzie.

True to form, he takes the teeniest, tiniest morsel and trumpets it. Of course, he misses the big picture.

Yep, Orton looked like crap on Monday. Still the team is 6-2 and in the six wins the Broncos have beaten teams with a collective current record of 26-22.

By comparison, Culzie's "trade of the Eon" boy has led his team to a 4-4 record and in the four wins has beaten teams with a collective current record of 11-21.

Orton and the Broncos have faced superior teams all season long and produced (collective current records of the teams they have played = 36-28). The Bears have faced a weak 8-game schedule so far and have gone nowhere fast (collective current records = 31-33).

Culzie, if Cutler is the "trade of the eon" what's up with the Bears' record? And please, don't use the excuse of lack of talent. After all, the Bears are considered to be vastly more talented than last season.

I will sit down and wait for your non-sensical reply (but I know it will be impassioned and have a lot of ALL CAPS and !!!!!!!!!!!).

You go, dude!

Again, a loss to Atlanta that should have been a victory may be our undoing. I'm not giving up on the troops just yet, but a loss tonight will pretty much seal the deal.

Gore runs best between the tackles; our weakness has been outside the tackles. All those predicting a HUGE day from Gore will be pleasantly disappointed. If Harris comes to earn a two-day paycheck in one sitting and we get any pressure on Smith we can pull this off.

Bears-27 49ers-23

Jerry has botched many picks and signings but to act like the Bears should keep Lovie Smith just because other teams have bad coaches too..... WTF?
It is not just the players that Lovie is given to work with. That part is Angelo’s doing.
It is also the fact that the Bears cannot develop one single player to make the jump from college grad to NFL player.
How many of the Bears draft picks over the last 5 or 6 years have grown under Lovie Smith's coaching or the coaching of his hand picked assistants?
Name someone.
Dave Taub is the only coach here who knows what the hell he is doing and how long before someone offers him a better deal with a team that wants to win and not just muddle through?
Devin Hester being the best return man in NFL history was a great surprise but what does Lovie do with him?
He tries to convert him into a WR killing both the notion that they needed to find a real # 1 WR and the return game at the same time.
Lovie was the only man in the NFL who could stop Devin Hester.
Guys like Benson and Gage becoming better players once they were out of Chicago. Why were they so bad here yet have their act together for a new team?
Lovie is in his 6th season with the Bears and they have made a grand total of 2 playoff appearances in that span.
The first time his dumb Cover-2 was torched by Steve Smith while the coach looked lost and the last one ended in the Super Bowl with the Colts shoving the ball down the Bears throat while they had no clue as how to stop it. Cover-2 or nothing at all!
Since then it has been .500 football and that is something that you did not see from Cowher or Shanahan.
They kept the Steelers and Broncos competitive every year.
Lovie does not do that.
When your team comes out and they are not ready to play over and over again… letting the other team score on their first 3, 4, 5 or 6 possessions then you are nor getting it done.
When your team commits stupid penalties including punching another player like Tommie Harris last week or Charles Tillman against Tampa last year then you are not getting it done.
When you are on your way to your 3rd consecutive season without a playoff appearance then you are not getting it done.
Throw in the fact that Lovie is now calling the plays on defense and the defense looks like that can’t stop anyone then you have yourself a prime example of a coach that needs to be shown the door and I really can't see why anyone else wants this to go on.
What separates this guy from Dick Jauron or Dave Wannstedt?
Let him finish this train wreck and then bring in someone new for next year.

It does not have to be a ranting screamer or some ex-Bear from the 1985 team and all that nonsense.
Just a real football coach who knows what he is doing and is respected by his players who will give 100% for him.
Is that too much to ask for?

Wow Stuck....
How old were you in 1984?
I don't think this team smells anything like that one but it appears that you have been sniffing paint fumes or something so maybe that is what you smell.
That team was loaded with young, well-drafted talent on defense and a killer offensive line that was coming into its own.
You can add the best RB in football to the mix too.
The defense was coached by a coordinator who has forgotten more about defense than Lovie will ever know. The players would have cut off their arm for Buddy Ryan.
They were ready to dominate games at that point.

Trying to draw a comparison between any Bears team from the mid 80s with this one wins my vote for dumbest comment of the year.
I guess that you really do live in Wisconsin after all.

WRD:

I didn't "just show up here", I have posted every week of this season on FCP as well as the last few years.

Go back and read the posts from each week before spouting off.

I had plenty to say when they were 3-1 earlier this season. I predicted 5-11 (7-9 max) before the season started and I'll stick with that. As anyone who actually regularly follows the FCP blog knows, I am not shy about posting my opinions about the Bears. I don't go and hide when the Bears win.

My only purpose in re-posting my 2007 post was to inform people as to why I think the Bears are where they are right now. It just so happens that I wrote it a while ago.

I'm sorry if my clarity appears to you as negativity. None of this had to happen - it wasn't an accident - it was malfeasance by the McCaskeys, Philips, Angelo and Lovie (in that order).

Lovie should never have been extended after the Superbowl flop and subsequent 2007 flop and Angelo is a below average GM at best.

Phil I will try my best to cover your points. I never said that because there are not good coaches in the league that Lovie should get a pass. I said that all those usual suspects who get bandied about wouldn't succeed either with what we have. Keep bringing up Justin gage and all the other WRs in the league that were here and do you know that Hester has almost twice the receptions that almost any of them got and they played the position in college. I don't even want to talk about Berrian because he is grossly overpaid. Sidney Rice is better than he is and once all the better players on the Vikes start asking for what they are worth then they are seriously in trouble. And have you paid attention to where those first round picks are couldn't be coached are playing? Rex is a backup who barely got a job. Haynes is out of football. Bazuin who was the equivalent of a 2nd rounder was hurt and who knows where now. Benson laid down on us because he was a brat and only woke up when he realized that he had to be a man. Good for him. That doesn't happen very often. He's not some pattern. Did you know that just about every player we drafted was either hurt in college or didn't have a solid pedigree at any position. That includes Hester. And Lovie didn't make Hester a WR. Angelo and the owners stated that being just a PR/KR did not warrant the kind of contract he deserved. Angelo kicked that in and Hester had to do it. Did you miss that part? Coming out of college Tommy Harris was said to have a body of a 40 year old man. Well known fact for scouts but fans were told that it wasn't true. I was one of his biggest supporters but he is not that dangerous to anyone but himself. Guys play football and everyone expects them to play with some kind of controlled emotion. Sometimes it worked but often times it doesn't. We are a team that settles for picked over players and fans want to blame to coach all the time about them not being any good. Like I said: youth is being served. That calls for patience whether you guys like it or not. And I strongly remember that Rivera was the coach when Steve Smith torched us and we lost the Super Bowl. It's always convenient to say that something was not Rivera's fault. How come Philadelphia when Buddy was there and Arizona didn't have the caliber of players and success that he had here in Chicago? Why couldn't his greatness work for players who were not that great? 85 was the imperfect marriage that worked only that year. I didn't see the same love for him when he was the boss over the whole team. You never hear about his players after 85 standing in line waiting to cut off an arm for him. Stop acting like 85 is still alive. Even Singletary has players now who do stupid stuff like gaurantee some kind of annihilation after losing 4 straight. A well coached player will never give a team bulletin board material? It's not Singletary's fault. Almost half his own players never saw him play. Didn't see what you still dream about. They aren't cutting off anything for him either. His best player ,right now, got thrown off the bench by him in his first game as coach. You think Singletary throws that in his face like fans throw that Tillmman incident up from last year? Move on, already. Should Singletary lose his job because he still rely on that guy?

Anthony --

re the score of tonight's game, I hear you, but I think the travel and the odd day of playing throws off the Bears enough that the Niners prevail.

I do think the Bears will see a steady diet of Frank Gore and with our banged up linebackers and secondary, if Gore gets past the line watch out.

Plus, both of these teams need to be playing with a sense of desperation. Which coach do you think is more likely to have his team frothing at the mouth?

Niners 27 - Bears 14

So JohnF, what should've happened after the Super Bowl? You had a coach take a team to the Super bowl and they should've let him walk? Just because you didn't like him. You predicted something negative and when negative happened you now want a pat on the back because you are a... fortune teller? I remember your posts back in 2006. Most of them said that we wouldn't even go to the Super Bowl and I remember you did not post very often until we had lost a game. I don't dwell on things but I do remember you did not have faith in winning. Even when we won. Sorry my friend but that's a person's character. I'm a positive person and I do try to find a silver lining and a sliver of hope in things. I didn't look at this roster and say that we were a shoo in for the Super bowl. I would've liked for them to have been a better team but we are not. One big decision this past off season. That was getting Cutler. What else did we get? What did we get last year and the year before? The O line was neglected for 2 years. Who did we get for this year? Pace and Frank Whatsit? There was a reason they were available. We clamored for a seasoned WR and we sat pat. We clamor for a lot every year and we usually lose a player thru not wanting to pay or we get a question marks. How many years did we need a TE before we drafted an overgrown WR in Olsen? Last time we drafted a linemen in the first round before Chris Williams was Columbo. He got hurt and what did we do with him? rehab him until he was good enough to play for Dallas. With Williams we drafted a linemen who had a bad back. Look at all the other guys who we could've drafted who are not question marks for their team. Oh yeah, I forgot, coaching is the reason he is borderline bust. It's not because he supposed to be on the other side and couldn't yet be trusted to protect Cutler from the elite pass rushers. Coaching fault, right. Yeah, you did post more this year but look at your posts: you didn't expect much all along. Who did you pick us to beat in every game? How can a guy say he is anything but negative if a team is 3-1 and he picks them to go 2-9 the rest of the way. as far as you were concerned we only have one more game to win this year. Yeah, negative. Remind me to show up and gloat after we win 6 games. Sounds stupid doesn't it. I really know what stupid sounds like.

Look WRD... if Lovie has no control over who plays and what position they play then what purpose does he serve on the team?
Is he the head coach of the Bears or not?
It sounds like you paint him as some innocent bystander in all of this.

I said nothing about the 85 Bears or Singletary other than Stuckinwisconsin had some crazy idea that this current team resembles that one.
Yes the Bears won just one Super Bowl then but go back and look at their records for that 7 or 8 year span.
They have not even come close to that kind of sustained success since then.
Buddy Ryan's D did have success in Philadelphia by the way but I don’t know what he or the 85 team has to do with Lovie Smith.
If you want to talk about moving on from a Bears Super Bowl team then you can start with the one from 2006.

You talk about youth being served as if this is just growing pains.
What youth is that?
I don’t see a young team here. Just one that is clinging to 2006 while the rest of the league is living in 2009 and planning for 2010.
That goes for the G.M, the head coach and about half of the players.
What window they had is closed and it is time to make a change.

Keep believing in Lovie WRD and you'll keep being disappointed.

I knew what he was all about in 2006.........

Phil, plain and simple I said that blame has to be spread around. You did bring up players who would cut off their arm for Buddy Ryan and I stated that he didn't illicit that kind of dedication from players later on in his career. He had a few great players in Philly but nothing of the caliber of what he had in Chicago. Did that tarnish for him his legacy? Not to you maybe. But to someone who isn't a "85 is livers" it sure does. I've already argued that just about every coach who had carte blanche over his roster is extinct like the do-do bird. Too many times they don't have a final say. Look at Fisher with the Titans. His owner practically made him start Young. He's the longest tenured coach in the NFL and he had a roster decision made for him. Now that was the most blantant I've seen. How many times have decisions been made by his owner that he didn't agree with that was not so public? from what I've heard he never wanted Young drafted. How did he manage to end up with the guy if he didn't want him? Ownership. I will go so far to say that some of the mistakes Angelo has made drafting players have to do with an overall thought process agreed upon by ownership. Their edict is to do whatever you can to save money. Draft down and go out and use more retraint than most teams to save money. Ownership isn't changing so why keep crying that river?

I would take 0-16 with Cutler vs. anything with Orton.

I will be laughing when all of the rats come clamboring back to the Cutler ship when were winning.