Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf was in a talkative mood with Bulls beat writers this week.
Jerry Reinsdorf did something this week that he should do more often. The Bulls chairman sat down with beat writers from the major Chicago-area newspapers and fielded questions on a wide variety of topics. As always, Reinsdorf was thoughtful and well-spoken, and he would reap a PR bonanza for his Bulls and White Sox if he made such media get-togethers a regular occurrence.
Some of what Reinsdorf addressed already has been discussed here, but his comments about Ben Gordon and Luol Deng are what I found most interesting. In discussing Gordon's free-agent departure to Detroit, Reinsdorf said Gordon was going to be out of the mix with the Bulls and, had he stayed, would have seen dramatically diminished playing time. As for Deng, who missed much of last season and the entire playoffs with a foot injury, Reinsdorf forecasts a bright future.
Asked about losing Gordon, Reinsdorf said, "Actually, we made a decision a year ago not to commit long-term to Ben. We tried. And he turned it down. But then near the end, John [Paxson] and Gar [Forman] decided it probably wasn't a good idea to make a long-term decision and to see what other options might develop over the season. So we withdrew the offer we had on the table. Ben ultimately came in and said he would take it. But it was too late. Now, fast-forward to the end of the year. We have [John] Salmons and a hell of a three-guard rotation with Salmons, [ Kirk] Hinrich and Derrick [Rose]. Ben wasn't going to get a whole lot of playing time. His time was going to be diminished. And now we've added [Jannero] Pargo for the limited time the fourth guard will get. Ben just no longer fit. He's a terrific player. But he needs minutes. And he wouldn't have been happy with the minutes he was going to get here."
So let's get this straight: Gordon, who averaged a team-high 20.7 points during the regular season and was the Bulls' main go-to guy throughout the thrilling playoff series against Boston (24.3 ppg, including 42 points in Game 2 and 33 in Game 7), was going to have a hard time getting minutes behind Salmons and HInrich?
Gordon has his faults, for sure, but he still was rated as one of the top free agents on the market. And you mean to tell me that he was going to be stuck in the fourth-guard spot that instead will be manned by the acclaimed Jannero Pargo? The story behind Gordon's exit would seem to be revisionist history on the part of the Chairman.
Deng, who appeared in only 49 games for the Bulls due to a stress fracture in his foot, figures prominently in Reinsdorf's vision of the future: "I think he's going to be fine. ... He's had some bad luck. I believe Luol is going to be an outstanding player. He's already an outstanding person. Hopefully his bad luck is over."
Asked about the philosophy that if you have two All-Stars you can contend and if you have three you can be a final-four team, Reinsdorf said, "Well, we have Derrick, who clearly shows the potential to be an All-Star. And I think a healthy Luol Deng will be an All-Star. Boston showed three stars help you a great deal. Now, the Bulls' championships, we really had two stars. But one of them was like two stars all by himself. Maybe three. Maybe we had three stars in Michael Jordan all by himself. But it's still a team game. If you have the right role players and play the game properly, you can win. When you have three All-Stars, it makes it easier, of course."
So, to recap, we have Ben Gordon's departure being no big loss because he was slated to be no better than the Bulls' fourth guard. And we have Deng, who averaged a pedestrian 14.1 ppg before being injured (and 17 ppg in just 63 games the previous season), supposedly set to ascend to All-Star status? Deng is a hard worker and gets the most out of his abilities, but he lacks the explosiveness and pure athleticism to be a perennial NBA All-Star.
What's your take on Reinsdorf's assessments of Gordon and Deng, and do they make you feel better or worse about what lies ahead for the Bulls?
Actually Stu the best PR the Bulls could get from JR would be the sale of majority intrest of the team or his resignation as chairman of the board but since neither is goint to happen I'll get back to your question.
JR said BG no longer fit and wouldn't be happy with the minutes he would have gotten; translation: BG turned down good offers two years running....screw him he isn't worth the headache.
As to JR's comments on Deng, I just wonder if he'd been into the medicinal marijuana before the interview.
Now if you want to talk being penny wise and pound foolish, you by-pass veteran coaches for VDN yet for the second time Tim Thomas collects millions for doing nothing. Then you make up excuses why you let your top scorer walk after you've over paid an inury prone underacheiving coach K product. And let's not forget the little shopping trip to euromart to get a pound of butter and coming home with a cheap margarine substitute called pargo.
Stu, as for your comment that JR should do more interviews like that.... if i wanted someone blowing smoke up my butt I'd spend more time watching congressional hearings on c-span.
JR is and has been very detached from the day2day happenings with the Bulls. He still has Doogie Howser as coach, and a faux GM (Foreman), with the actual GM (Pax) making decisions.
Don't forget, he's the same clown who said he's trade all his NBA championships for a baseball WS ring.
Deng is the definition of SOFT, and Gordon, even though he's a 6th man on a good team, was their best scorer.
Appears they missed big time on Blair in the draft and the 2 guys they drafted can't play.
This could get real bad in a hurry if they don't make a move...
Reinsdorf's comments are about right. Deng will play better likely recovering previous form (he couldn't be worse) and Ben would have had fewer minutes. Nothing too controversial about that. Just saying it like it is. Good for Reinsdorf.
I'm in total shock. I'd like to know who is it that sat in on the board meetings with Reinsdorf and Paxson, and made the absurd suggestion to let your best player opt out as a free agent. Clearly Ben Gordon is the Bulls' number one source of offense. Instant offense at that. Then you say "we have a hell of a three guard rotation with Salmons, Rose and Hinrich?" Are you serious? Hinrich, who averaged just 9.9 points a game last season should be the one considered as the fourth guard. The Salmons, Rose, Gordon triangle was the obvious rotation for the bulls this season. Someone from inside the Bulls' franchise should have stepped forward and said,"hey, wait you guys. Let's think about this for a second. We're getting rid of our number one source of offense and taking Jannero Pargo? Uh, hello! I guess we forgot the fact that this guy exploded in the playoffs for 42 in game 2, and 33 in game 7 against Boston." Someone is making some really terrible decisions from within the Bulls franchise. Ben Gordon, we'll miss your outstanding offensive skills and we'll try to stop your offensive rampages when we meet you and the Pistons this coming season. Even though the best teams in the league have a problem doing that. I feel like we're the Lakers, and we just let Kobe walk right out of the door. Come on! This has got to be a joke. I'm having a nightmare. Somebody wake me up.
Truth be told....it's Ben and his agents fault he didn't stay in Chicago. He had 2 offers in 2 years that were very similar in what he ended up signing in Detroit. If the offers would have been signed instead of asking to be paid like Luol Deng...he would be with the team.
Defensively Ben will always be a problem for any team. Yes he is capable of putting of 42 points; but his man will also score 30 to 40 points. Defensively we should be alot better team with Ben not being on the floor and our offense will be alot better with Ben not monopolizing the ball all the time.
Also...people seem to be sleeping on John Salmons. The guy is can put 20 to 25 a night and can play defense.
I honestly think the Bulls will make the playoffs and lose in the first round again....but the sights are set for 2010. When hopefully we can bring in Wade and/or Bosh/Amare.
Future looks good for the Bulls.
These statements are HOPE killers. I used to think J.R. was shrewd, but now I KNOW he is just cheap as a baby bird. And its all thanks to sold out United Center crowds. That's where all the Cubs fans go to drown in beer after another season of infertility. If I was Rose - I would be out of Chicago faster than one of those planes leaving OHare. Chicago is starting to make me hate the place. Mayor Daley and his traffic light scam for Olympic money and Reindsorf and his cheapness. You would think that a team with all those sellouts would DESERVE a winner instead we get chicken dinner. And Chicago is on that boyscout glee club stuff again. Talking about character. Yeah they are going to need that character to shake hands after all of those losses. That means bringing in a bunch of Duke players with braces n stuff!! And that pretty much reveals their hands in the free agent market. They are going after BOSH and Looser. And I HOPE they get them too. I want to hit JR in the face with a rotten tomato. I refuse to invest ONE DIME in the Bulls.
And this brings me to his terrible assessment of Ben Gordon. Salmons is good, but he is not Ben Gordon good. I like him, but he did all his damage on a losing team. Kirk is too small to be a 2 guard and lost his starting job to a shorter rookie. Hunter is over the Hill and should be coaching and Pargo was overseas learning how to make gyros and falafels last year. He got traded OVERSEAS!! How you get traded overseas?? He can now speak more languages than Kobe and Rosetta Stone. JR wisely assessed his LUCK with MJ, but he missed it with Gordon. I know Gordon is no where near MJ. You could ride MJ to the top. But Gordon was 4th quarter theater that reminded you of MJ. His abilities allowed us to be in games every night and to have HOPE in the playoffs. Now its on Salmons, Pargo and Rose - TO CARRY KIRK!!! This is some straight up Bull. And I love Rose, but he is not an AllSTAR yet, and you KNOW Dung isn't. They are going to be good enough to just compete and Rose needs to make plans to roll because I wouldn't play for a franchise knowing I am NEVER going to get a championship. Even with Looser and Chris Squash, the Bulls don't go past the second round. And that my friends is a glimpse into the next 5 years of the Chicago Bulls.
This interview just warned any free agents and fans who want to win. But watch those Northshore boosehounds go and sellout the joint.
Corey C. Dowdell - Excellent Post. I agree 100 percent. Other teams in the league couldn't stop Gordon and you KNOW Chicago ain't going to do a THANG about it. Wouldn't surprise me to see GORDON in the Allstar game. How are going to be the league's highest scorer and have to BEG for a contract??? Only in Chicago.
You know its bad when the BEARS are smarter and spending more money than you. THE ONLY WAY TO GET RID OF REINDSDORF is to hope the fans wake up - but they are the same ones waiting on the Cubs. Now someone mentioned other unsavory things (like illness), but I can't wish that on anyone. My dream would be for JR to lose everything in a card game with Jerry Buss. Wouldn't take but two years for him to have us back on top.
BG is being compared to KOBE???? c'mon.... Watch some basketball please... bg is gone, and the bulls will be fine.... and yes, bg is the 4th guard in that rotation... I'm not sold on deng, but letting bg walk was the right decision....
Well, so much for this story to be unStu-worthy to start up a new blog thread. Should I just copy and paste my previous posts to here? lol
Alright, so let me just continue to pile on the JR rants… so now we FINALLY have someone from the Bulls Front Office speak up in the media how long since Ben Gordon signed with the Pistons? THREE WEEKS. That’s right, 3 weeks and we get Jerry Reinsdorf again. When the going gets tough with the media and fans, it’s Uncle Jerry to the rescue again while he orders the GarPax peons of his world to continue on with leaking false trade rumors to their favorite contacts at ESPN news. How convenient of Uncle Jerry to finally speak up in public after 3 weeks of rehearsing answers and excuses to obvious questions. Isn’t it the GM’s job to act as the media spokesperson for most NBA teams? Oh I get it, Gar is too new to the job title still even though he’s been acting at that role for more than a year now, and Paxson was conveniently “promoted” out of that job duty. After all, Gar did lie to the media a couple of months ago when he was quoted as saying that it was his or their TOP PRIORITY to re-sign Ben Gordon this Summer, right? Oh, but I guess Brian Hanley forgot to ask that question to JR or perhaps he was “instructed” not to ask that question? Hmm.
Bottom line (again and again and again..), JR can continue to play his Dr. spin role of coming up with one excuse after another, but all his b.s. ever does is draw more ire to the diehard basketball fans. Hey Rod, you said that JR just tells it like it is? Are you serious? If Ben Gordon was really going to be the 4th guard option in the Bulls guard rotation and lose minutes this coming season, then why even bother playing him meaningful minutes in the Boston Playoff series if the plan all along was to never sign BG to a long term contract since last Summer according to JR? You see, it’s garbage like this that never makes sense with Reinsdorf. And how do you put all your eggs in 1 basket with Luol Deng by saying that he’s an all-star caliber player if healthy? Was that really a smart thing to say by placing unreal expectations on Deng or was it a motivational ploy to send a message to Deng? I thought JR just said that he’s not the right guy to assess talent and evaluate players? Oh waitaminute, let me backtrack a bit to Hanley’s interview transcript… JR said that he’s “not in the business of grading coaches.” My bad, obviously JR is not an expert in coach evaluation, but he’s an expert in analyzing player potential now.
You know, really, the more JR talks to the media, the better for me. That way, I get to rip on the old guy more and more in the blogs, in the emails or in radio talk shows, whatever chance I get to discuss sports and my beloved Bulls. And my last props to Corey Dowdell… well said in last your post and you should write more in FCP on Bulls topics.
I agree with ownership when it comes to the BG topic but not Luol... BG was a defensive liability who should NEVER EVA NEVER EVA be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe & Jordan... BG has NEVER EVA been seriously considered or highly voted to an all-star game, and it's just dumb to think that will change know that he's a highly paid 6th man for Detroit... That's right, Detroit told him before he signed that he would be the third guard in a three guard rotation... If he's the third guard behind Stuckney and Hamilton... Of course he would be behind Rose and Salmons... Complete players get all-star consideration, so for the people who think Gordon will ever go, please explain to me your logic... This team will be better if a healthhy Deng returns to form, Salmons continues to average 20 ppg per, and because we are starting strong defensive minded players at every position... I myself am glad to see him gone, before I see him holding our salary cap hostage... The lame fans on here that say they aren't supporting this team anymore can just kick rocks, there are enough true blue fans to see this franchise through... The rest of you can go buy a Pistons jersey...
Uh the comment made about BG and Kobe was an analogy. I'll ask you to watch some basketball please. Clearly i was comparing what both players mean to their team offensively. BG clearly shows some of the killer instinct that Kobe has from time to time. The east just got a lot tougher seeing as how Shaq is with Cleveland now and you have a sharpshooter like BG running an offensive assualt with Detroit. You can't be serious.
First of all, let's all know Jerry just said what he thought was best in the situation. Ben's gone and Deng is here. What's he gonna do, talk Ben up and Luol down? Duh!!!
Deng needs to improve his strength and his games needs to get off the even plane it's on and rise each year. If not, take ANOTHER ONE on the chin.
The offense we lose with Gordon will be offset by better ball movement, better defense, and better all around team play.
Chilax! Everyone's acting like we're 10-24 already with the new squad.
As for Jerry; I listen to that knucklehead as much as I listen to my kids after being told 'no' for the second time.
By Keith Lifetime Southsider on July 22, 2009 8:45 AM
How are going to be the league's highest scorer and have to BEG for a contract??? Only in Chicago.
===
KLS, remember Michael Jordan contract negotiations? He had to basically beg for top salary though now Reinsdorf readily admits that MJ was three all-stars in one player. Michael had Nike, Gatorade, Fruit of the Loom, etc., and that is why his contract negotiations were not well known!
But remember the mantra? ORGANIZATIONS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!! -- That was how the Bulls' kept player salaries down. Nothing has change.
Ben Gordon over-sold his skills and should have taken the second contract! PERIOD! Take the money and work towards another one!! He should have taken the first one two years ago and he would have more power after this season to demand a new contract or trade. Ben sort of set himself up without realizing what the team owner's philosophy is towards salaries. I'm surprised Sottie Pippen didn't tell him to take the money and sit on the bench.
Remember this is Jerry Reinsdorf we are speaking of people.
I agree KLS, D.Rose should mature, get better and get the heck out of Chicago. But remember he is a hometown guy and might not leave.
I was going to avoid that story yesterday but I decided to read it just for laughs.
I was not laughing.
This is a nice little peek into Jerry’s mind and it shows how cheap he really is and little he knows about basketball.
As you pointed out Stu, he contradicts himself over and over and his logic escapes me.
The more that I read the more I kept thinking… “What the hell is he talking about?”
Jannero Pargo?
Sounds like some cheap imitation flooring you can buy at Menards.
“Jannero Pargo $1.69 a square foot on your Menards card!”
You save big money… you save big money… when you don’t sign your stars!
Please Jerry. Sell the team so they can get on with the task of building a real contender again.
I will drive you to the airport myself.
As a bulls fan I have learned to accept this lack of awareness and blind eye for talent from Reinsdorf. It seems as if he is gearing up for the "great" 2010 free agenacy. This off-season has left me scratching my head and wondering what's next for the future of the bulls. It has gotten to the point where I don't even know if I'll be routing for the bulls this year. You can say what you want about me...it doesn't matter but as a bull's fan I feel betrayed. Everytime the bulls look like they could be headed toward something promising, Reinsdorf's decisions cripple my optimism for a bull's chance at success. After Jordan retired the first time didn't Jerry try to trade Pippen? I think I remember Elton Brand and Ron Artest being on the same bull's team, right? What happened with them? Deng for 71 million(possibly 80)? Really??? Once again Jerry Reinsdorf is off with his analysis of his bulls especially Ben Gordon and Deng. I still can not understand why they let Gordon go. Maybe a little bit of pride got to Reinsdorf when Ben didn't sign that extension last summer so Jerry had to flex his muscle a little? You're the man,we know. Gordon was the best player (leadership, determination, work ethic, commitment to success...should I go on) and gave the bulls the best chance to win but instead of working something out with him they paid Deng who has yet to prove himself? Deng All-Star? Jerry, I'm sorry, not happening:( Does Jerry even watch the games? Maybe it's not him, maybe someone isn't assisting him make the right decisions as far as team personnel is concerned...PAX!!! The bulls front office's inability to assess their team has taken them a step back when they did not resign Ben Gordon. Yes they freed up some money for 2010 but Wade isn't coming to chicago. Sorry:( Home town boys, Wade and Rose playing together. Yeah! It's a cute story but not happening. And we need more than Bosh(that's even if we get him). Rose and Gordon worked very well. It was their first season together and their chemistry looked very promising; all they needed was a Chris Bosh type of player and time to develop. I always said that Rose, Gordon, Salmons, Thomas, and Bosh would play well together and would have been a force to wrecken with for the next couple of years. Unfortunately I have to watch Hinirich on the bench, Deng perform below (Reinsdorf's not mine) expectations, and see Tim Thomas and Miller get paid more than anyone in starting line up. This is all unassuring as a bull's fan. Why should I cheer for a team whose chairman is unaware of the talent his players possess and who abandons blueprints for success. Spending money on all stars doesn't prove success. The celtics made it work with their big 3 because they worked well together which is something you rarely find in sports. Many all stars are individuals not team players. So after reading about the chairman's Q&A's I am left with a whole lot of Q's and not one A.
Thank you Jerry Buttsdorf.
Your bungling of the Gordon negotiation finally convinced me that following the Buttsdorf-led Bulls is a complete waste of time because you make stupid,irrational decisions and don't care about winning.
Thanks for the extra time.
Cy
Salmons is better than Gordon. Salmons has a great all-around game including defense, and Gordon is a one-dimensional player. Granted that one dimension is scoring, but when his shot is not falling, which is about as often as when it is, he has absolutely no positive impact in the game. If Salmons averages 15 ppg he'll be make a much bigger impact than Gordon did because Gordon gave up just as many points as he scored on the defensive side of the ball. If Deng was healthy and could have guarded Pierce last year in the playoffs, then the Bulls would have been much better off with Salmons at 2 guarding Ray Allen. Gordon had a good series, but Ray Allen had a better one scoring at will on Gordon. Gordon is worth about 8 or 9 million a year in my book, but not 11 for a guy who can't play defense. Once the Bulls got Salmons it was either Gordon or Hinrich who would become the 3rd guard and 6th man for this year's team, and the other would be too expensive to keep for a 4th guard. Gordon is a better score, but the Bulls made the right move with keeping Hinrich. He can play both guard positions, and is the Bulls best perimeter defender. Yes, they are just treading water for 2010, but then they will be getting much more for their money, then they would have if they gave Gordon 11 million a year. I hate when people jump off a player's bandwagon when he has one injured year. I would be more scared about Deng if he was healthy all year last year and just awful, but that's an unavoidable injury. Deng when healthy is a great shooting up-tempo SF with an almost All-Star caliber complete all-around game. He will be great this year with Rose if he stays healthy because he probably becomes Rose's #1 option for a spot-up jump shot with Gordon now gone. Salmons creates more for himself, so Deng becomes the guy with the best mid-range jumpshot in the starting lineup for Rose to pass to. Deng can get to line, and to the rim and finish. That was another problem with Gordon because he never had the size to finish in traffic at the rim, and never seemed to get many calls. Salmons and Deng both have the size to play alongside Rose and initiate contact while finishing at the rim. Hence, getting to free throw line more helping offset Gordon's missing point production. Go Bulls and here's to Wade, Bosh or both coming in 2010.
wow!!! other teams can't stop ben gordon? i don't think i ever heard that one before. Also, the problem with that is BEN GORDON cant stop anyone from any team. I didn't realize that a 6th man on the Bulls was the highest scorer in the league. Oh yeah thats right, HE WASN'T. He never came close to leading the league in scoring. He was the highest scorer on the Bulls but, cmon that like bein the tallest midget.... LBJ
Even the worst team in the league has a leading scorer...
Oh Phil! LOL!!!! You're too much! "Pargo" cheapo laminate flooring! My wife and I actually looked into "Pergo" flooring, but found it too cheap even for our budget! Thanks a lot for giving me a gutwrench from laughter!
Lets see Gordon averaged 20ppg(who knows what he gave Up),
Salmons averaged 18ppg
So we have to make up for one entire basket during the entire course of a game. How on earth will we manage without Ben Gordon?
If Hinrich and Deng return to thier career averages, and there is no reason to think that they won't without Gordon jacking up crap shots, we add at least 6 points right of the bat.
Anyone else think that Rose, Noah and Thomas might increase their scoring averages this season. 1-2 points each and we pick up another 3-6 points
That puts us up 7-10 points before we take into account any improvement on defense, which is an absolute certaintly given that Gordon not only sucked individually, but he sucked the spirit out the the entire team defense.
The Bulls were a negative +\- team last season, anyone want to bet Ben Gordon's salary the are a positive +\-team this upcoming season.
Finally, Gordon "exploded" for 42(Ray Allen scored 30 in just the second half) and 33 in the playoffs, we lost both games, as we usually do when Gordon "goes off".
He averaged 30ppg in the 4 losses, and 18 in the 3 wins, so yea, I can see how the average south side moron would claim that he carried us in the series and we wouldn't have won a game without him.
Ben Gordon, zero all stars selections, zero first, second or even third team all NBA, zero selections to any level of the NBA all defensive team. Can't live without that guy leading us to a loss in the first round of the playoffs.
Bulls record during 5 years of Gordon as our leading scorer, 211-199, an awesome .514 winning percentage(42-40) average season.
Might as well slit our wrists now, how can we even hope to be a .500 team without Ben Gordon. Being a .500 team is the ultimate goal in the NBA, right, I can't think of anything better, not like a repeat threepeat, or even a nopeat onepeat.
Speaking of threepeats, Gordon would have been at best the 4rth best player on either of the Bulls 3 peat teams, behind both Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman, and not necessarily ahead of Toni Kukoc.
By some point in the 2010 season when the Bulls are challenging for eastern conference supremacy Gordon will be nothing more than another despised Piston.
Corey C. D., listening to your analogies of Kobe and BG are disgusting to me... And I do watch a ton of basketball... Kobe is a star on both sides of the court, and on the offensive side he can get his points in every way imaginable... BG on the other hand is a jump shooter, so you're comparison is completely idiotic... BG and Kobe definitely mean different things to their teams even offensively... Kobe is unstoppable, BG is not... Jumpshooters are only unstoppable when their jumper is on, when Kobe's jumper is off he can still get you for 30+... I know BG penetrates the paint some, but 90% off his offensive repertoire is jump shoots...
I do agree with Edgar on a lot of points tho, they should have asked him why Gar said signing BG was a #1 priority if they knew they had no intentions of signing him once the season ended... Reinsdorf's opinion of Luol is laughable, I noticed someone said he did it for motivation and that makes some sense...
I can't believe i'm agreeing with a guy that backed Jerry Krause over Jordan, Pippen, and Jackson. You completely mis-read Reinsdorfs comments. 1. Gordon never was going to be the one player that put us over the top. 2. Signing him would have meant trading other players to get us in a position to sign the top free agents in 2010. 3. Deng and Salmons are fully capable of scoring the few points per game it will take to match the points we lost in Gordon. 4. We lost a great offensive player that played horrible team and one on one defense. All in all, I think we are in great shape to attract some of the top free agents in the NBA. Our only negative is probably the 1 year head coach without any credibility because he hasn't one anything. I wish we still had Scott Skiles and simply traded away the players that weren't buying into his system.
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry,
I wish that you would be in the same place as that other clown name Jerry. You have become a laughing stock, you dont have any idea as to how to run a basketball team. You are constantly making these insane deals and allowing Pax and now Gar to take the blame for your decisions. I am like one other poster on here please sell your interest and get out of the basketball business. Please
Deng still has a lot to prove ... and VDN needs to find some way to get him involved offensively - he tends to disappear.
Ben Gordon will only be missed by those who equate basketball with scoring. Yes, scoring is necessary, but it is only one part of the game. BG is too small to defend a SG and too slow to guard a PG. When playing with Rose, you have no perimeter defense to speak of. He can be a good passer but usually chooses to shoot. Most of those I speak with point to how well he did against Boston ... in fact, his FG%, 3FG%, REB, Steals, Blocks, and assists were all down from both his season and career averages. Only his scoring, FT%, and turnovers were better. His minutes were also up significantly. He scored more because he shot more. Salmons, Rose, and Hinrich are all better basketball players than Gordon unless all you are considering when you are evaluating talent is scoring average. He was offered two good contracts (better than he deserved) and turned them down.
Salmons and Miller took the place of Nocioni and Gooden and the team immediately became better, not because they were so much more talented, but because they play team basketball ... not afraid to shoot when they have a shot, but wise enough not to force shots. As a result, everybody on the team looked better playing with them. Every great player (Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Stockton, etc.) made those they played with, better players than they were before they played with that great player.
The Bulls brass has decided to place teamwork and defense ahead of pure scoring numbers. To that, I have to say, "Good move." With another piece or two, we may have plenty to cheer about.
I loved BG's professionalism and work ethic and really don't want to trash him, but he is best suited as a role player.
I am so glad that all of Jerry's kids are out and supporting him and the Bulls. Uncle Jare should raise a lot of MONEY for MS (Messed-up Squad), because noone cares about the kids like Jerry. And this year's team is really special (Deng is back). Won't you have a heart and make your donation this year??? Uncle Jerry promises to spend his money on only the top free agents next year!! That's his "TOP PRIORITY", because he would "never" lie to you...
Edgar is right as rain about Jerry. The Bulls are nothing to him but a good revenue stream. He could CARE LESS what anyone thinks. And he treated Phil, Jordan and Pippen with the same disdain. Everything is about money with him. The man OVERPAID the soft vanilla players and underpaid the most productive player on his team. (Scottie and Kukoch all over again)
I hear people talk about Gordon's defense, but I NEVER EVER see stats. And whenever people talk about someone scoring more than Gordon - ITS ALWAYS AN ALLSTAR. "OH RAY ALLEN DID THIS....OH DWAYNE WAD DID THAT..." But WE NEVER compare Allen's and Wade's stats to SALMONS and HINRICH's - THE BONEFIDE LOCK DOWN DEFENDERS. Wade and Allen only had high praise for Gordon and Rose.
And only the completely delusional are talking about Deng. Hurt this year and hurt that year. Deng is as soft as wet tissue, just like his bones. Not a muscle on his frame! Thats our franchise player and co-captain!!! Brittle as a piece of uncooked spaghetti and as smooth as a baby seal!
And PHIL thank you for the Pargo/Menards paragraph. I was in tears. Whew! JR had the NERVE to mention him. Bulls cut Pargo a few years back when he was younger and better. And they traded Brad Miller also only to bring him back on his last leg.
But my favorite comments on this thread are about how people figure that anyone on this team will improve so much. Yeah lets just pencil Deng in for 30 a night and an allstar bid. And Kirk is good for 20 and defensive player of the year. Lets give Salmons 25 and All defensive second team. And that means Rose should be going for 40 a night, and he will break all of Jordan's records. And Pargo should bring about 19 a night (he's not that good) and 6th man off the bench. Oh we ready to SNAP!!! Its funny how good another player looks when he is on the team with someone sucking in all of the pressure. Nobody else in the NBA is going to get any better - ONLY the BULLS PLAYERS. Especially Deng, Kirk, Salmons. Jerry is spinning it like Sarah Palin.
Phil gotta give ya a high five on the "pargo flooring" it definitely was better than my "pargo margarine".
Edgar after I first brought up the interview in the other thread and you said you didn't think it was Stu-worthy, did Stu really have another choice?
It's nice to see some new names on posts and some fresh comments (unless you defended JR LOL).
BigWay, thank you for posting the the BG vs. Ray Allen stats and the BG ppg vs. wins and losses in that Boston series. I knew they lined up that way I was just to lazy to go look them up. I'm sure after reading that Keith isn't very happy though since he is or was probably BG's fan and those numbers prove what I (and several others) have been trying to tell Keith all along.
Excellent point Edgar on the lag between BG signing with the Pistons and JR giving an interview. The fact that JR gave the interview instead of Pax or Gar contradicts what he said about letting the people he hires make decisions. For all the time he took trying to sanitize the stuff he's shoveling the stench is still there.
Keith I understand your frustration but come on now you're going to blame Cub Fans for selling out the UC? I'll admit you almost have to have a Die Hard Cub Fan mentality to hang in there with the Bulls the last decade but these are mostly the same people that helped sell out during the Championship years.
Chicago is suffering from Battered Fan Syndrome. It's almost impossible to ruin a professional franchise in Chicago with no competition. The Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks and Cubs should NEVER have revenue problems. We have one of the most loyal fan-bases in ALL of sports. That is why they never or rarely change ownership. But these owners have learned how to play us like a violin. They have mastered the art of doing just enough - while asking for the MAXIMUM price for it. Our teams are always in the lower tier of their competition, but ALWAYS in the top 5 in what we CHARGE and what the team makes in revenue. Highest tickets, highest sales - average to poor teams. Our BFS is so bad that if our team wins - the owner gets a pass for the next 20 years.
CUBS - should ALWAYS field a contender and have one of the highest payrolls. Look at what the Cubs is being sold for. Cubs mantra should not be "next year", but EVERY YEAR. They are doing it like the Yankees. What's wrong with the picture??? Fans who don't know when they are being short-changed. So what they spent 140 on payroll. THEY CAN AND SHOULD. Cubs fan is the super-model that thinks she is ugly.
BEARS - are the only football team in town. In September its all about them. 85 Superbowl players have gray hair and Ditka has been milked to death. They are finally trying to become competitive again. But at least they have been generally a playoff team. But they have nickled and dimed us also. This Cutler signing has us all so giddy and hopeful when we should be in it EVERY year like NY. Bears have the money to make us feel giddy every season if they want. Super model fans that need to see Gloria Steinem.
HAWKS - Worst of the bunch. Took old man death for change to come. But at least the fans stood up to this guy by NOT coming out to the games!!! Old man Liver-Wirtz held on like Ebernezer Scrooge. And wasn't swayed by the neither of those ghost who visited nightly at the empty United Center. A new day has dawned and in 3 short years - the Hawks are back! Contrary to popular opinion....it doesn't take long to build a contender. When owners decide to spend - thats when change comes. BUT NOT WITHOUT PRESSURE FROM SMART FANS. The Hawks are what happens when Ownership and fans come together in Chicago. And even if they don't win it all, this is the way it should ALWAYS be.
SOX - I saved these two for last because of the SMUG-SHOT that headlines this post and to hammer my point home. Reinsdorf is probably the smartest of all the owners in this town. The Sox STILL field a solid competitive baseball team on the field - simply because JERRY likes baseball. He has been smart about hiring the right people on the Southside. Kenny and Ozzie are second to NONE, and the team can beat ANY in the league on any given day. Ironically, that team deserves Chicago's heart, but we are simply too ignorant to give it to them (collectively). JR is still cheap, but can be moved to get them to the next level. He has a soft spot for the Sox. Irronically, its the presence of the CUBS and lack of fans that have kept JR in check. He HAS to field a winner and go first class to get Southsiders out. The fans on the Southside and the Cubs are responsible for a quality product. But they are not hurting and should put out a quality product.
And that brings me to the BULLS!!! Noone has been misused and cheated MORE than BULLS fans. Jerry admitted he got lucky MJ and rode him for 6 championships. MJ is responsible for transforming the Bulls into the "CASH COW" that it is. Jerry is milking it like his middle name is "dairy". The United Center is a mint because STARVING loyal Bulls fans keep coming back to Jerry and the Bulls only to get battered and battered and battered. And Derrick Rose falling into his hands is just the trick to make us all believe that he is going to change and stop treating us so badly. "Honest, scouts honor" Jerry promises. And he promises to get us Dwayne Wade or Labron James. Like a strong pimp, Jerry makes his promises and collects his cash. And the fans... get the back of the pimp's hand.
Excellent post Keith.
Your assessment of the Chicago’s owners, management and even the fans is spot on and every fan here should be able to see themselves in that mix and face the truth.
It does not matter which team you root for… we have ALL been played for fools more than once.
You can be a Cub fan or a Sox fan but chances are you are also Bulls, Blackhawks and Bears fans too. We have that in common and we enable these guys far too often.
I have said a million times that I do not understand why so many fans here accept middle of the road and shoot for mediocrity instead of demanding better.
Not only demand more but expect it.
Be pissed when your team is not a contender every season and not just when they come close and fall short once every ten or twenty years.
I've said it before that Chicago has the reputation of having the best fans in the nation and it has been more to our detriment than it has been to our benefit. Many take great pride in that stature. Sox fans are rarely included in that charge by the way and get bashed by many North Siders for not having their blinded faith, wait-till-next-year, pie-is-ever-at-our-fingertips fanaticism. Yes, Cubs fans do get critical, but are very quickly hopeful even after a small accomplishments like sweeping the Little Sisters of the Poor (better known as one of the worst baseball teams ever fielded, the Washington Nationals). This type of rollercoaster criticism-versus-hopeful, back-and-forth-windsocking even when the achievements that create HOPEFUL aren't really much in terms of championships goes on and on and on even for 101 years!
Why are those allegiances so detrimental? It's because those allegiances create consistent profits that don't necessitate going that extreme extra effort to the mountaintop! That last drive toward the summit is much harder than the ascent to that point. Mountain climbers will attest to that as fact. Many Chicago fans get excited about virtually any positive that occurs on the playing field, court or rink--which is fine--but it often is to the point of deluding ourselves into thinking that this could be the big one! Yup, the mountaintop is at hand! This is it!
Oh, how our conservative business-style Chicago owners love us when we do that! We play right into their pockets! Then, the whole thing continues day-after-day, year-after-year as our collective urban pride is puffed up by national recognition for how great we are as sports fans.
It took moving away from the city to clearly see this dysfunctional phenomenon from a distance.
Actually Keith Jerry's spinning it more like John McCain promising to take care of "Joe the plumber" with just a tad of Sarah Palin tossed in being able to see a Championship from his front porch like Sarah sees Russia from hers.
Gig i agree whole heartedly with you about being able to see things clearly since moving away from the City. I used to live in NW Indiana and although I have remained loyal to all the Chi-town teams ( I even pulled for the Sox back in '05 much to the chagrin of other Cub fans) if Charlotte had a constant contender I might easily become a Bobcats or Panthers fan. The truth be known the only reason I believe the Bobcats can't seem to contend is they don't have any loyal fan base at all inspite of the popularity of College hoops in NC pro ball just doesn't seem to matter. I can get great seats at the door the night of any Bobcats game no matter who they are playing. Charlotte hasn't sold out a game since the last time MJ and the Bulls played here and much of that was due to MJ being a NC product. Even as part owner now MJ hasn't been able to raise the interest in pro ball.
Salmons is fool's gold. He is 30 and finally had a season scoring near 20. He's been in the league over 8 years and has finally produced. Salmons is good but sooo overrated. His defense isn't that good, it's slightly better than Ben's. People think he's better because he's taller. Salmons is a ballhog too, he turns over the ball a lot too. I'd still take Ben over Salmons any day. Salmons is a poor rebounder for his height as well.
Salmons hasn't shown me enough. He has one ok year and now he's this great player. He's a journeyman. Ben has limitations mostly due to height but honestly he didn't give up as many points on a game to game basis as everyone thinks. He got burned by star players but who the heck doesn't? I remember Pierce burning Salmons twice in a row on the same flippin play in the same flippin spot.
I wouldn't have resigned Ben to 10 a year but let's not fool ourselves or buy JR's garbage. Our leading scorer and best shotmaker is no better than a 4th guard is ridiculous.
Also Deng....I think he's alright, a decent starting SF. but will never be an All-star. Too limited, not athletic enough, a nice 3rd or 4th option but that's all. I don't hate on him like many do, but he will never live up to his contract.
I don't get what the team is trying to do, we're gonna gamble on getting a star in 2010 and it's gonna turn out like last time with getting one decent player probably Joe Johnson.
Every other team makes moves to improve and we sign a scrub that didn't even play in the NBA last year. Wow.
Rashid, that was me also who made the comment about JR calling Luol Deng an all-star if healthy as a motivational tool for Deng to improve his game. Too bad the little speech is already a few years too late. There's no turning back now, especially after committing big bucks to Deng long-term for the next 5 years unless they can find a sucker trading partner, which is also highly unlikely.
For the record, my continuing JR Rants have nothing to do with whether I preferred Ben Gordon to take a walk to free agency or re-signing with the Bulls. Any talk about JR goes beyond any discussion about Ben Gordon's strengths and weaknesses on the court. I actually think a healthy Salmons will be just fine taking over as the starting 2-guard with Hinrich as the primary backup. The Bulls won't be terrible, but they'll likely be the same .500 team and another first round playoff exit of false hope or perhaps losing out on the 8th playoff seed by one or 2 games. Anything can happen obviously, but regardless, any which way you look at it, JR is clearly taking a STEP BACK first in order to move forward. If I was a paying consumer who regularly watches the games at the UC (for those who don't know, I was a former 9-year Bulls full season ticketholder when I finally stopped renewing last season), this plan should be unacceptable, but if you're statisfied with mediocrity, then that's your prerogative. I'm just more tired of the lame excuses, the contradicting statements, the misevaluation of their own draf picks and the same predictable old school & conservative approach to JR's (mis)management of the Bulls' roster payroll. Keith is basically correct in saying that JR is like a PIMP who makes false promises and collects cash. Remember, JR is already on record from that interview transcript in saying that the Bulls franchise is his greatest investment, yet he penny pinches the fans by saying that he won't dare touch luxury tax territory unless HE FEELS that the tax penalty to sign or trade for a certain player will bring the team a Championship, in which he also eludes to his general fact that the Bulls must reach the NBA Playoffs FINAL FOUR first before he considers the team close to Championship caliber. Hey, I'm not misinterpreting here, JR said that word for word in the interview transcript. Again, I stress "HE FEELS" over letting his lackeys in the Front Office determine who that player difference maker is. YOu see, JR is the guru of all spin doctor owners in the NBA. He doesn't care about the paying fan consumer. He just uses the fans increase his profit margins. Why certain people continue to support this guy as a good NBA owner in the Chicago market is beyond me. I already made my stance to boycott watching the games at the UC, but I can't speak for the majority of fans who go there for their own guilty pleasure. I love the sport and I love the Bulls, but it surely doesn't mean that goes the same for JR. Like I said earlier, keep doing the interviews, JR and I'll continue the vicious rants without the r-rated language.
Tim you and Big Way are both wrong about Gordon. Anyone can throw out some watered down stats (sure the leading scorer is the problem). But the real fact is the Bulls are a marginal team because the owner is CHEAP. Ben Gordon has rained in more 3pters for the Bulls than any other player to don that uniform - but hey - thats not good enough for JR and some of yall. Ben has been the heart and soul of the Bulls since he got there. Whatever overall stats you come up with - will be better than any other Bull guard including the rookie. The only thing Ben Gordon ever came in 4th in concerning being a guard on the Bulls was PAY!!! Gordon's production is documented. Ben wanted to be compensated according to PRODUCTION. Now that's something people understand in any other context. The MVP of a team always gets the Lion's share - except on the BULLS.
BIGWAY - "Bulls record during 5 years of Gordon as our leading scorer, 211-199, an awesome .514 winning percentage(42-40) average season. Might as well slit our wrists now, how can we even hope to be a .500 team without Ben Gordon. Being a .500 team is the ultimate goal in the NBA, right."
This is the kind of stat that an oily politician would pull out of his hat and spin. NOW Kirk wasn't there right? You tried to put all of the Bulls woes on Ben and even their overall record during his tenure is a winning one. Now I dare you to do the same numbers for Kirk or Deng. Chicago is a LOSING franchise and way before Gordon got here. Do the math gentlemen and you will see. Best thing that ever happened to Chicago since the championship years was Ben Gordon and now its Derrick Rose, and if I was him - I wouldn't resign with these cheap jokers either. Ask ROSE if he would rather have any of those guys over Gordon - and YOU KNOW what he would tell you. I know what Dwayne Wade said.
To Whomever "Anonymous" happens to be...
Perhaps you haven't read some of our past posts about how much attention we collectively give to anything that is "anonymous" or "anon" or whatever. Simply put, most of us choose not to read it. Perhaps you are simply forgetting to install your blog name? At any rate, I just wanted you to realize that if, in fact, you desire all of us to read your posts.
Take care
He rids the team of its best scorer and replaces him with saw dust.
He wants you to pay your hard earned dollars to make up for his stupid spending on Deng.
He offers you players that the Bulls let go of years ago and other teams cast offs and pretends that they are not only talented but the future.
Miller and Salmons are the future?
Not only are they too old to be your future they will both be unrestricted free agents after the upcoming season. They are gone this time next year.
Jerry is doing what he does best.
He is selling cheap packaged as hope.
Bland packaged as steady.
Low expectations packaged as look to the future.
No star players packaged as a well rounded team.
More smoke and mirrors from Jerry as the Bulls enter another decade of rebuilding.
Sorry but it is not rebuilding if you are not even trying to get better and just hoping for 40 wins. That is how Jerry likes it and Gig said it perfectly.
"Don't expect much" should be the teams motto.
He believes that if he dangles a half eaten carrot we will be happy to gnaw on it because we are hungry and don’t get to eat at the buffet very often and too many times he is right.
Look at some of the gushing comments and praise the Bulls are getting for taking a step backwards.
Sold!
*and Jerry puffs his victory cigar*
Sorry Gig - that was my post in response to Tim and Big Way. I usually don't go after people, but they were revelling in those fake stats. I can understand why people don't like Gordon, but I don't like it when people call the man out falsely. ONLY Rose gave more than Ben Gordon last year. He deserves better.
PHIL - I agree 100%. "Don't Expect Much" is an appropriate campaign slogan - but this will be for the next 10 years. I will NEVER believe JR again concerning his "promises" to the fans.
EDGAR - You have taught me about Jerry and I have learned my lesson well. I once begged you to stay on board and to keep your season tickets, but now I understand. The scales have fallen off my eyes and I see clearly now that the rain is gone. Your statement about Jerry and the Final 4 comment is everything. That is his own personal standard and his teams have been missing that mark since MJ left. And he is cheap AND SMUG! I find it extremely forward and arrogant of him to show his face after dispatching Ben like that and insulting our intelligence by calling him the 4th guard on the team - replacing him with Pargo. And noone in the media stands up to this guy. I'm no reporter or media guy, but if someone called into the SCORE and made a comment like that, Boers would have verbally gutted him. Final 4! Jerry KNOWS his little team aint NEVER going to see a final 4 unless they tune into March Madness. He essentially told us fans "I aint spending no money until the players get us to the Eastern Conf. Finals". That will NEVER happen with rookies, old guys and your captains coming off the bench and a coach that is making it up as he goes along. Labron and Dwight Howard are not even 25 yet right? They are just getting warmed up. When Jerry reaches in those pockets, thats when I will get interested. Bulls are 10 years away he is out making media rounds like a player. ARE there any reporters out there with an ounce of integrity??? Where is Marriotti when you need him?? At least he had the stones to stand tall. The rest of these guys are his friends, smiling and gushing like they are talking to Jordan or somebody.
Fellas ... while I agree that BG was our best offensive player - let's not forget he was also probably the worst on defense. Undersized. Constantly abused by bigger guys.
Consider this ... I found a site that does the plus/minus for NBA teams. Looking at guys who played at least 1000 minutes ... Kirk Hinrich ranks #1 on the team with a +203 (points scored by the Bulls - points scored against). Nocioni was +79, Noah was +66, Gordon was +24. That's because Hinrich plays ... DEFENSE!
For those who criticized Kirk for his 9.9 ppg ... there will be more points to be had now that Ben "I never met a shot I didn't like" Gordon won't be there. I think they will be a better TEAM.
Keith let's get one thing straight here ok? I don't hate BG, never have and never will. I have merely pointed out on numerous occasions that he's a one dimensional player and what is false about the fact not a stat that the games BG scored 42 and 33 respectively the Bulls lost to Boston yet won when he scored only 18? I have never used derogatory adjectives to describe BG such as midget, cry baby or even greedy unlike the way you have constantly bashed Hinrich (and I'm not defending Hinrich btw). If you will recall I have always said BG was or I should say is an excellent 6th man capable of igniting instant offense to spark the team when it's needed but should not be a starter. To listen to you BG should be an all-star so I don't see where the problem is when someone points out the head to head play of BG and Ray Allen or D wade or even Rip Hamilton. Regardless of all that you also know me well enough to know I like to play devil's advocate some times just to get a reaction from you and/or culzie.
You know, I posted my comments a couple of days ago and I've been checking the blog consistently since then. Its very apparent to me who my fellow loyal Chicago fans are. To Keith, Phil, Tim, Gig, Erik, and Annon, I thank you all for your excellent posts, analogies, and jokes about JR. You guys are so spot on that it made me think even more in depth and inspired me to post another comment. My first post was made merely because i was pissed and in utter disbelief at something so rediculous. Ben Gordon has done the most for this team as far as inspiration to the fans since the Jordan days. How dare anyone disagree with that. As a loyal Bulls fan I'm disgusted at the fact that so many people are feeding into this false hope and Bull that JR is feeding to the media. Lets asses the situation once more shall we? This preposterous move by the chairman has taken the venom out of the cobra. The only slightly intimidating thing about it now is that it's quick (Derrick Rose) and it can still bite you (Derrick Rose....again). BG was the poison that killed you in the stretch. No team is going to be intimidated by our squad this year seeing as how they have no gamebreaker. Wait! I forgot! Let's throw all of our hopes and dreams on a broke down Luol Deng. A near the end of his career Salmons who we expect to step up big. A non penetrating 10 points a game having Hinrich. And let's not forget......heeeeeeeeeeeeee's baaaaaaaaack! PARGO! JR you completly dogged BG. You overpayed Deng. And now that you didn't wanna spend any more money to keep Gordon in order to look forward to 2010, you give us fans the most garbage excuse and allow Pax and everyone else under you to take the fall. But we know the truth JR. I've gotten mad again. this is some bull...
No faith or hope in Bull this year. I do think losing Gordon is a good move. Yeah, yeah.. he did put up points, but weakened the team and D in the process. It was always, Bulls and Gordon. Crazy shots, while not waiting for the offense to set up; no D; and NO team chemistry. He would score 30, allow his opponent to score 30, and take away 20 from the rest of team. See ya, won't miss ya. Problem is, we made no attempt to improve the team!!! Pargo, Hunter, come one! We need scoring help underneath, and I don't have patience to see if these 2 rookies pan out. I was ecstatic when all the trade rumors for Bosh were floating around... oh well. You can't have Noah and Tyrus underneath, together. One or the other, with a solid scoring threat at the other position, and I would rather see Thomas go. Salmons is exciting, and am awaiting to see what he does this year. Am also waiting on Deng this year, but am not as excited. I think this is his year... time to sink or swim, Luol, or join the ranks of "dead weight" already crowding this roster. It appears that we'll try to float through this season and bet heavily on next year's plump free agent market. I just hope JR delivers, at least, next year. Good luck, Bulls!!!
No problem, Keith. Listen to Phil also, he gets it as well about JR. It took a while for me to truly understand JR the owner, especially after the Championship years in the 90's because that was around the time when I was still a young and delusional fan who just enjoyed watching and dissecting the x’s and o’s of the games, but not really caring about the “business” side of sports. However, when I finished College and was finally old enough to afford the season ticket luxury expense of going to the games and contributing to the return success of the franchise, of course I wanted to watch a good product on the floor up close and personal. When MJ and the Bulls finally ended their 6-year title run, naturally, the waiting list on Bulls season tickets were much shorter at the time and I jumped on it knowing that the Bulls would be rebuilding through the draft for several years, but never in my wildest dreams did I think it would take THIS LONG. Then came that disaster 2007/2008 season when Skiles was fired and then literally everyone on the team stopped hustling. That was the last straw when JR still decided to raise ticket prices (again) the following year all because he got lucky with the ping pong balls and Derrick Rose. Keep in mind also that I’m not your typical rich tycoon making 6 or 7-figure salaries who buy these tickets like a toy hobby. I made it a point to go to the UC and enjoy all the games cheering on the team or heckling the opposing players and coaches, not just use the seats to scalp and make more money or to show off business clients. I saved up long and hard to budget and afford these tickets and now I feel like I wasted 9 years of spending hard earned money for nothing but disappointment and still no real light at the end of the tunnel for this team because why? Because of that stupid-looking man in the photo above this blog thread. I sat through and put up with all the Tim Floyd mess, the Bill Cartwright experiment, the Jalen Rose, Ron Mercer, Eddie Robinson, Travis Best, the T-Mac/Vince Carter/Grant Hill free agent offseason courtship teases, Marcus Fizer, Elton Brand, Eddy Curry and his heart ailment soap opera, Tyson Chandler, Viktor Krhyapa, Jamal Crawford, AJ Guyton, Khalid El-Amin, Roger Mason Jr. (now a star role player on the Spurs), JoJo English, Mario Austin and his infamous European exile, JamesOn Curry and his public urinating habits, partygoer Chris Duhon, Michael Ruffin (twice), etc… I mean, this sad list can go on and on in just this decade alone and where are we today? Recycled back to another hopeful point guard superstar who finally had his first taste of negative press this Summer over a silly gang sign photo at a party and a school cheating scandal. While the Bulls were at it, how about losing another leading scorer on this team to a DIVISION RIVAL WITHOUT anything in return? I mean really, how smart is that? Apparently smart enough for JR to answer the questions three weeks later after the damage was already done. Maybe we better hope that Rose doesn’t know how to ride motorcycles, right Jay Williams?
By the way, I never completed my comments on James Johnson and Taj Gibson from the other blog thread. I did catch the rest of the Bulls Summer league games that week and unfortunately, neither guy played that much better after game 1. JJ looks like he can develop into a good shooter and he has good ball handles for a big man, but he won’t make an impact to the team this year unless he can drastically improve his defense and rebounding which really need a ton of work. As for Gibson, he is what he will be, a role player specialist. Although he was hailed in College as a defensive whiz with crazy shot blocking skills, I didn’t see it much in the games. Funny thing is, for all the worry about DeJuan Blair during NBA Draft night and his questionable knees, Taj Gibson was the one who missed more Summer games due to foot injuries. Ah yes, only the Bulls…
I know all too well that Gordon is not the greatest player in the league and that he has his shortcomings but he was still valuable to this team and they are going to miss those points and just as importantly, the threat of those points.
That part is being overlooked by a few people.
Teams had to keep a constant eye on Gordon and now that threat is gone.
Double team Rose and dare the rest of them to beat you is going to be the strategy of every single team that plays the Bulls this year and looking at their roster it will work more times than not.
That will lead to frustration for Rose and more failure for the players who have already proven that they are just so-so.
They made the other teams job that much easier in the name of saving money that will never be spent on the free agents available in 2010.
We have been down this road before.
Ben Gordon did not cause Tyrus Thomas to peak at no better than average and to be one dimensional.
Ben Gordon did not cause Kirk Hinrich to be streaky and just an ok player.
Ben Gordon did not cause Luol Deng to be soft, timid, injury prone and now untradable.
Ben Gordon did not cause Joakim Noah to be a spastic role player who was drafted too high and cannot match up with real NBA centers.
Ben Gordon did not cause the in over his head Vinny Del Negro to be named as the head coach.
Ben Gordon did not cause the Bulls to blow the opportunity to pick up Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire and Kevin Garnett.
There is a long list of issues that keep the Bulls from being a contender that Ben Gordon had nothing to do with and letting him go while getting nothing in return does not change any of them.
It just magnifies them.
Wow, the Kobe thing still. He used the Bulls as leverage, that deal had no chance of happening. We offered MN a good deal(Deng and Chandler) for KG, Minnesota turned it down. We offered a good deal for Amare, but PHX got cold feet. We tried to get Gasol too, but Memphis turned it down.
Teh front office is crappy but I don't blame them for those moves.
Also Noah is already a top 5 player out of the 2007 draft which was pretty bad. He is already one of the top 10 offensive rebounders in the league already, dude needs to gain more weight but he will be a solid 10/10 starting center. And he was 9th pick which isn't that high for such a crappy draft
Swagger, that's just it though. All those "almost deals" that never happened is the problem. If I'm the GM of Minnesota, why would I think Deng and Chandler would be good enough to compensate for KG? We're talking about KG here. Al Jefferson alone was already a more attractive option than Ding Dong Deng and Chandler and the Wolves ended up getting Al Jeff plus 4 other guys AND draft picks. Now that's agressive!.. something that the Bulls NEVER are. Plus, Deng didn't have his overpaid contract yet, so I don't how the Bulls would have managed to match salaries to get the KG deal done anyway unless they offered future draft picks, but remember, the Bulls are HIGHLY DEPENDENT on their own first round draft picks over signing superstar free agents and pulling blockbuster deals. And how much truth was ever there behind the Amare trade rumor? Just as much as the Boozer-rumored three way? Think about it, outside of maybe the Salmons/Miller trade (which I don't exactly classify as a "blockbuster" because those 2 guys are not superstars), name me a significant and REAL BLOCKBUSTER trade that the Bulls have been able to pull off in the last 15 years?? I know, it's hard to think off the top of your head, right? Gotta use that Internet search options to try to prove me wrong, right? I'm sorry man, but "trying" is not good enough, especially from this OVERLY secretive franchise that runs its Front Office operations like the C.I.A. Everything's always hush hush and then bam!, once negative press leaks out, here's Uncle Jerry to the rescue calling on his favorite local beat writers from the newspapers to conduct a scripted interview!
And lastly about Noah... 1 good draft pick doesn't make up for the other disasters that have caused this team to strap their own payroll from salary cap flexiblity by overpaying and the actual decent picks and pickups like Gordon, Brand, Nocioni, etc. that they end up letting go for basically nothing in return, never mind firing a head coach over the Christmas holidays AND in the middle of his contract that the Bulls are still actually paying for today, did you know that? Man, don't me going guys... anyone plans to give JR and team any little ounce of credit, I will pounce on it like I do with children's play-dough.
Funny how other teams were able to work out deals with Minnesota and Memphis but not the Bulls eh?
And how did those deals work out for those other teams where the Bulls could not get it done?
L.A. Lakers World Champions 2009.
Boston Celtics World Champions 2008.
They went out and got their man and ended up with a ring while the Bulls are resigning Lindsey Hunter.
The truth is that the Bulls Bulls were willing to part with Andres Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, Thabo Sefolosha, possibly Adrian Griffin and draft picks for Pau Gasol and Hakim Warrick. Warrick was far from a throw in player and he has averaged 12.7, 11.4 and 11.6 ppg over the last three seasons.
That is it.
Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley was quoted as saying “Chicago wouldn’t offer us any of their good, core players. Our people told me that we weren’t able to get equal trade value for Gasol and that we needed to do a deal that would give us cap space and draft picks. It was no secret in the league that we were considering offers for him, but the Lakers were the one team that stepped up.”
The Bulls were offering Memphis their scraps and would not part with Deng or Gordon and that is why they lost out on a star player.
Now Deng is a ghost and Gordon is a Piston.
Chandler was not even with the Bulls when K.G. was traded so it would be pretty hard for them to offer him to Minnesota in a deal
The Bulls were a real powerhouse with Noah last year and now that they are bringing back Pargo the Lakers and Celtics must be crying in their beer for settling for Gasol and K.G.
I can't wait to see Noah lead the Bulls to an exciting 40-42 record.
Just pack a few pounds on him and he is going to be golden!
A solid 10/10 player you say?
Wow!
Who needs all-star players like K.G., Gasol or even a Ben Gordon when you have a 10/10 guy?
Keep those expectations low Bulls fans!
This team better not be awful! I am really angry now. I've got an entire winter to get through and if they ruin my fall and winter I am going to really be upset. I am just beside myself about this foolishness. And then I scroll up and and see his face!!! GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do we have to have this lying cheap joker running the Bulls??? We are going to look like the Washington Generals. We are going to be Utah East. I hate Sloan teams. Good for nothing except running a good practice against.
You miss the point. The point was that Noah wasn't a wasted pick. He was a decent pick who will be a solid starting center for the next 10 or so years. Of course, if someone offers a star, he is trade bait.
But of course on blogs, people rather just spout hyerbole and punch lines than real discourse.
Hyperbole and punch lines? I sure hope you were not responding to my post, Swagger. When it comes to the Bulls and JR, I don’t exaggerate and I’m always ready to discuss and debate anytime. I may throw a few parting shots at the Front Office, but I arm them with FACTS. And fact is, in the last 15 years, I can tell you right now that the ratio of TRADE RUMORS to DONE BLOCKBUSTER DEALS significantly steers towards the side of the former, probably even a clear shutout. Does it not? Please, if someone out there can prove me wrong, speak up and state your case because I love a good debate about JR and the Bulls. And I like Noah a lot too. For some of the regular Bulls bloggers here who know me very well, I’ve defended Noah since he was first drafted when just about an overwhelming majority of fans were ripping his clothing fashion, his shooting form, his skinny body and his curly long hair, never mind paying attention to his overall basketball skills and his hustle & energy on the court. Does he have limitations? Of course he does and they’re obvious, but he’s NBA starter material, just not a potential superstar. As for trade bait, sure, he can be packaged for a superstar player, but then again, anyone on the Bulls can be trade bait for a superstar since no one on the team is even an all-star yet.
Again, Noah was the one exception of a good draft pick for the Bulls in hindsight so far, but that doesn’t make up for the other underachievers and the guys we eventually let go for basically nothing in return. Look at this as another example… when Tyson Chandler was traded away, that was basically 50/50 from fans who supported or hated the trade, yet we know the Bulls pretty much did that trade because of Ben Wallace and because of reports of an internal rift with Scott Skiles. So really, if the Bulls really did support Skiles over Chandler and then later fire Skiles a year and a half later for various reported reasons, then you just basically wasted a 2001 #2 overall draft pick for nothing, especially when PJ Brown never re-signed with the Bulls and then giving away J.R. Smith to Denver where he becomes an essential role player/6th man on that team that went to the Western Conference Finals last season. I mean, how messed up is that from the Front Office? And that’s just 1 example! Another 2002 #2 overall pick in Jay Williams lost to an accident which I agree, bad luck rather than bad decision, but let’s not forget Eddy Curry former #4 overall and then Ben Gordon a #3 overall and now he’s gone also for nothing in return. And who knows about the future of Tyrus Thomas, a former #2 overall as well, who might also take a hike from the team for another NOTHING in return. You guys know that I can go on and on because when it comes to the Bulls, I’m a human encyclopedia, but there’s just no excuse for this! It’s total mismanagement and a lack of strategy and backup planning by the Bulls Front Office, all orchestrated by who? You better believe it, Jerry Reinsdorf. And these are just draft picks.. I haven't even touched on a quarter of Front Office ineptness!
McSwagger - I like Noah also. I appreciate a great factual, sound, spock-like discourse as well, but I also appreciate personal fanaticism and passion. Edgars reasons behind his angst for Bulls management is as compelling reading as the overwhelming, astonishing facts he provides to support his reason why. Edgars facts elicit both laughter, tears, and yes...punch-line a plenty.
For instance imagine if you are Dwayne Wade and Gar calls you on the phone to let you know the Bulls just let Ben Gordon walk for nothing in return and added Jannero Pargo to fill his void. And then tell Wade that you guys especially THE OWNER considered Gordon the 4 guard on the team anyway. And then ask him if he wants to come back home.....and then wait for the hysterical laughter and subsequent dial tone.
No Edgar, he was talking about me.
I did not agree with his comments about the Bulls failing to make a trade for Gasol, K.G. or... OMG! Kobe.
Now he wants to get just a little personal because I brought up the fact that the Timber Wolves owner made it public that the Bulls were not serious about any deals and L.A. and Boston were both able to pull the trigger on deals that the Bulls could not.
I guess that was just too much of the "real discourse" that he claims that he wants instead of "hyperbole and punch lines".
Sorry Mick.
Next time I will just pretend that I don’t remember what really happened and go with whatever you post as the facts.
On second thought... no I won't
I just saw that JR has been approved by the NHL to buy the hapless Phoenix Coyotes. Knowing that JR's winter home is in Phoenix, I'm wondering if this could be a precursor of selling the Bulls as he'll now be "entertained" and inundated with running that franchise, especially since he's 72? Let's all hope so!
I highly doubt it, Gig. He's basically treating his sports franchises as a "trophy collection". Gee, go figure, the NHL also has their own "hard" salary cap rules that JR can use as his ongoing excuse to not spend money. JR is so greed personified that it's sickening.
This is sad news.
Edgar, I wasn't referring to you. You speak the truth and have the facts to back them up. Some people just like to say "this guy sucks" or "this guy doesn't do this". Which is fine, nothing personal at all, Phil. Trust me, I have much beef with Pax and Reinsdorf. I just feel place blame when blame is due.