Roy Halladay is congratulated Sunday by manager Cito Gaston after beating Boston.
Roy Halladay showed Sunday why he is the kind of pitcher who could bestow a World Series berth upon any team lucky enough to acquire the Blue Jays ace before the July 31 trade deadline. But is it asking too much to expect either Chicago team to make something that exciting actually happen?
Pitching at home for the first time since Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi said he would field offers for the 2003 Cy Young winner, Halladay (11-3) pitched a six-hitter in beating the Boston Red Sox 3-1. He fanned six, walked none and threw 78 of 105 pitches for strikes in his fourth complete game of the season and 44th of his career. After the final out, Halladay tipped his cap to the cheering crowd of 36,534, but told reporters it wasn't meant as a farewell wave. ''You have to kind of live in the moment and that's all I'm trying to do,'' he said. "It has nothing to do with looking down the road. It's just a matter of the fans were excited, they were cheering and that's all it was."
So will Halladay be getting cheered by some other team's fans after July 31? Despite Tribune columnist Rick Morrissey's plea that the White Sox all but ship their entire franchise to Toronto to land the Jays ace, it's doubtful Sox GM Ken Williams would be willing to mortgage the future for a pitcher he could only control for a year and a half (Halladay becomes a free agent after the 2010 season).
Morrissey proposed making Alexei Ramirez and John Danks the centerpieces of a Sox bid. Of course, if you part with Danks, you still haven't resolved the No. 5 spot in your rotation --and although Halladay is much more accomplished than Danks, is he really going to win that many more games for the Sox over the last two months of the season than Danks would? And while Sox fans might not mind seeing the erratic Ramirez move on, the Jays probably would insist on Gordon Beckham instead. If I'm Williams, I don't make that deal.
As for the Cubs, it seems Halladay would be ideal for Wrigley Field: According to ESPN.com, no pitcher has had a better winning percentage than Halladay during day games (56-21, .727); Pedro Martinez ranks second (74-29, .718), followed by Whitey Ford (57-23, .713). But the Cubs have solid starting pitching and Ryan Dempster soon will return from the disabled list. Given that they weren't willing to part with what was necessary to acquire Jake Peavy, don't look for GM Jim Hendry to make a play for Halladay. The Phillies, Angels and Dodgers apparently are the most likely trade destinations for the coveted Toronto right-hander (if he is dealt at all).
How much do you think the Sox should be willing to give up for Halladay? Given Williams' aggressive nature, do you think he will attempt a bold move -- much like he did with the Padres and Peavy back in May -- or is that wishful thinking? And if the Sox somehow could land Halladay without giving up Danks, Ramirez or Beckham (perhaps some combination of Gavin Floyd, Aaron Poreda, Clayton Richard, Jordan Danks and Tyler Flowers), would that necessarily translate into another trip to the World Series? It certainly would be fun to find out.
I think I'll put my bet on that rose bush growing in Antarctica. Seems like the safer choice.
Backham CANNOT be included in any deal till mid August - so after the trading deadline; they cannot trade him till at least a year after signing...a league rule
I wish the media would occasionally do their homework - then again, it never stopped morrissey before
Stu the second deal is the one Kenny has to make with Gavin Floyd. That first deal makes no sense at all. Danks is just a shade under Halladay. Kenny is a gambler - but the Phil Ivey kind. That means YOU walk away the loser. And a lot of people know that. I wouldn't talk to Kenny without a whole flock of lawyers and advisors. Sadly, Kenny doesn't have the owner that is willing to spend and back him up. He would do WONDERS with some money in negotiations. Money has been the only thing to ever hold the Sox back.
If I as Hendry - I would have pulled the trigger. Nobody on the Cubs roster has earned the right to stay except Ramirez. Cubs are going to win the Central, but that has never been the goal. They want to win it ALL and that means shaking things up and rolling the dice-skay. Cubs need a sign posted on their clubhouse that reads "sorry, studs only". Cubs are spending Yankee money and their expectations should be nothing less than a championship. Field the absolutely BEST team that money can buy and roll the dice.
I don't know what Halladay is worth to the White Sox, but I have to take this shot at Keith "Woo Woo" Lifetime South Sider:
Remembering his continually consistant support for Ben Wallace (one of the laziest players I'be ever seen on any Bulls team) Cleveland had seen enough of him, traded him to Phoenix, and the Suns promptly did what the Bulls are doing with Tim Thomas.
They bought out the contract on his worthless ass, paying him $10,000,000 to ...... GO AWAY!
Hahahahahaha!
Compared to the competition out there, the Sox won't be able to compete for Halladay. Besides, they're not going to give up Beckham, Floyd and/or Danks. Beckham is the crown jewel prospect and why give up a solid starter in Floyd or Danks for a slightly better and much more expensive Halladay? Ok, maybe Halladay is more than "slightly better", but it doesn't make sense to get rid of one of them plus multiple prospects. That doesn't solve the entire 5-man rotation problem they keep playing with. Alexei Ramirez plus other prospects like Flowers and Poreda make sense, but it goes back to what I said earlier, that won't be good enough of a proposal to compete with the Dodgers, Cards, Phillies, Yankees, Braves, etc. Good luck to the Sox, but I wouldn't give up Floyd or Danks if they had to.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/2009/07/13/20090713spt-wallacebutout.html
Villy, I thought you were telling a joke but it is true about BW.
Ten million to walk away from a contract! Dang!!
On the White Sox:
First WE ARE PLAYING GOOD baseball. Go White Sox!
Secondly, this Halladay guy is worth giving up some players for, but the question is which ones and how many? Also, do WE see Championship in the lights ahead? Some times you gotta pull the trigger and get the guy now!
I like Alexi, but I believe we can live without him at shortstop. I just don't like giving up two players for one. AND DEFINITELY DON'T ASK FOR ANY PROSPECTS!!
I know we need pitching, but take either the prospects and some cash or take Alexi and a bench player for Halladay. Give up NO more than that!! Otherwise keep the team intact.
I'd part with Alexi Ram but not Beckham. Maybe Ram, Poreda, two or three minor league pitchers would do the trick. The Sox seem to have enough in the minors to get it done. Adding Danks or Flyod in the trade makes no sense.
Roy Halladay will likely wind up in the Hall. He's been wonderful this year. That said, he will be a free agent after next season and he's not getting any younger. He also pitches particularly great in the daytime which doesn't happen so often for the Sox. He would be a better fit in that regard for the Cubs.
While I agree with a philosophy of "winning now" versus that of what the Bulls are doing by "building forever," I'm not sold. First of all, we do need to be mindful of how a move like this would make us compared to teams like Boston and New York this year and next year. I think we would still be inferior. Yeah, "anything could happen" in the playoffs. However, those "things" don't happen normally.
Moreover, I really like these White Sox as a team for the future and I mean REALLY LIKE--not in the hopeful sense in which we fans so often allow ourselves to get caught. Don't mess with that future. Don't dare give up Gordon Beckham for little more than a rent-a-player! I could part with Alexei, but only because he's erratic afield, has a low OBP, and doesn't hit at all in April and May because of his extremely long swing and can't adjust to the cold. I'm sorry, but I would also add that he doesn't appear to play smart. Moreover, his position could be taken by Beckham leaving third for Viciedo or, if he has a visit to the right psychiatrist, Fields (Josh, I'm still rooting for you to turn things around, but...). By the way, Rolen's not getting any younger at third for Toronto, so maybe Fields might hold some attraction.
Don't break up the triad of Buehrle, Danks and Floyd. I also wouldn't give up Poreda. Look, Ricciardi also has a reputation as a mean guy who won't even think of selling Halladay at anything less than a supreme price. Leave Ricciardi alone. He's in his own world which is some kind of legend in his own mind.
About the only scenario that I can dream of that I'd part with is Jermaine, Alexei and Richard in a package. I know Ricciardi probably wouldn't go for it. On the other hand, the only guys he has that are playing OF that are currently "keepers" are Wells and Rios and he's been trying to get rid of one of them, lately Rios--not enough power for a corner OF position. Adam Lind, ordinarily the third "keeper" has been the DH. Toronto has one of the worst infields position-by-position in baseball giving Ramirez a lot of attractiveness. Another consideration in any trades with Toronto is the salary issue for their players. While our dollar has decreased against Canada's, it's still considerably better. Moreover, you pay an exorbitant income tax in Canada. These issues have historically been huge problems for Canadian players in all sports--one significant reason so many Canadian cities lost their hockey teams.
Teams like Milwaukee and St. Louis are the likely trade partners with Toronto as Ricciardi's looking to rebuild positionally (his pitching is still solid). Those two teams are loaded with prospects. The team that's most loaded in baseball is still Tampa, but they may feel that they have enough pitching. If they do, with NY and Boston in the same division, I'd reconsider if I were them. What's the old saying? "You can never have enough pitching."
Hey Villy - Ben Wallace was still not the problem in on the Bulls roster. I trully believe he was hurt after he left Detroit. That was one of the quickest declines I have ever witnessed in a player. He went from a great player to a bench-warmer in no time. Phoenix needed his money off the books like Chicago needed to do with Tim Thomas. I used to hate Tim Thomas until he went to Phoenix the first time and played really well for them. And I know that is why Chicago gave him another chance. But Villy, I will stand by the man's career stats. He is a champion and a great NBA warrior who's sun has set. In his hey-day, he held his own against some great competition and he did it with Defense and Hardwork. How can you not appreciate that?
Kenny Williams is going to walk away from this one. He has to. This guy would have put us over the top though, but the price is too high for a rental.
While this is a bit off the subject, are there any other White Sox fans out there who have had enough with the shaky outings of Scott Linebrink? (Yeah, you could lump Dotel in the same boat, but at least he can get you a big strikeout now and then) I know Linebrink still has a stellar ERA, but he has that stellar ERA ONLY BECAUSE Matt Thornton keeps bailing his butt out time after time. Linebrink comes out of the pen and often doesn't throw strikes or his two-seamer is very hittable and hit it they do. In no time, there's runners on first-second, first-third and either one out or no outs. Here's not only a glitch in how ERA's can be misconstrued, but also that ridiculous "HOLD" stat. Every time Thornton bails out Scott Linebrink, Linebrink's ERA actually goes down and his "HOLD" stat increases! I have ZERO confidence in Scott Linebrink and I don't think he has been worth his money since we obtained him.
Gig - I hate to see Ozzie call on Linebrink also, but not as much as I HATED seeing McDougal. You want to really make me angry - just show me his face in a Whitesox uniform warming up!!! I used to put both hands over my face! I had to get that out there while we were on the subject. But at least I understand why Ozzie keeps marching this guy out there to our demise. 2 years ago, Linebrink was pitching lights out. He used to get that ball to Jenks and it was so long and good night! I used to LOVE seeing his number called. But not anymore! 2 years is a lifetime for a relief pitcher. Coop and Ozzie feel like they can get him righted. If so, then we really can stabalize our bullpen. Even Jenks has fallen off a little. I still trust him, but there was a time that Big & Wide meant: GASSSS!!! HEE-GONE!!! THIS BALL GAME IS OH-VAH!!! EE-YESSSS!!"
Yeah, Linebrink drives me crazy too.
Wait a minute... thats it!
Trade Linebrink for Halladay.
There. Now I can go back to work.
Halladay is worth about 10,000 Bobby Jenks and $42,000,000. Hopefully they can find a landfill big enough for the 10,000!
Buehrle.....YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And now for my oratory:
Scott Linebrink is bad.
The End
please Sox fans, don't flatter yourselves....your talent comes accidentally, no one of any caliber would chose to play for a
second rate team. So the real question is How much are the Sox
worth to Holliday? Zero,Zip,Zilch. I am sure he would rather play
in milwaukee before he came to the White Ghettos. You can put that on the board.
Ah, Stuckinwisconsin, it must be football season as you make your presence known to us again. Perhaps you miss out on what's typical for Sox fans, our collective expectations, etc. These have been bandied about ad nauseam since March. Delusion of any kind (self-flattery is a type of it) is hardly typical of Sox fans. I guess I should thank you that we are becoming more positive about our ChiSox and someone's picking up on it.
Listen, you may stay stuck in Wisconsin if you're thinking that, collectively speaking, we have been coveting Roy Halladay. I don't think we have. The price would be too steep. I love the "White Ghettos" reference. Is that supposed to be funny? Bridgeport may not be Yuppieville, but when did the 35th and Halsted area become replete with burnt out and boarded up buildings ready for the wrecking ball? You truly are stuck in Wisconsin.
Here's a case of limburger for you. Please stay put.
P.S. My assumption is that you lean towards the Cubbies. If that's the case, you probably aren't aware that you have no bragging rights until the bluebloods finally gain their crowns.
see....here is the thing....I don't recognize the nic Gig, so I am not sure how to respond to you...after all, I am not here to offend the individual, but the group ( If i was talking about Cub fans, then i would use the term'mass' instead of merely 'group'). None the
less,are you defending 35th and Halstead??? Just where are you 'stuck' then?
Stuckinwisconsin, first of all, I do want to say that I believe that I recall your posts about the Bears in the past. You're a Bears fan, right? At any rate, I also remember agreeing with you on a few fine points you'd made back when.
You know what's funny, I started to think of 35th and Halsted (I lived in Bridgeport for one year while going to college at UIC) after I'd made my post and realized while it's not really a "ghetto" per se, it's nothing to get at all defensive about. I'll give you that. I certainly would prefer not living there!
It's all cool.
Sleeping soundly in Seattle (area)