Fans at fault if Sox miss playoffs?

If Sox fans were as passionate about supporting thier team as they are about ripping Cubs fans, then Kenny wouldn't be saying this.

There is the White Sox story I was waiting for!
It took a while to get one since they have been playing well but sooner or later something to write about would come up.
Focus on the negative 24/7, add a little tid bit about the Cubs attendance and then ask why the Sox don't have a better image in this town.

Gee… I wonder why?

This is typical and exactly what I was pointing out last week.

Hottest NBA off season in the last 10 years.

The East is loading up for war.

Cubs sell the team to a no-name.

and....we get a freakin SOX story?

Who is driving this ship? Stu, are you back yet??

The reality of the Southside is that "If you build it - they will come". Kenny knows it. So JR is going to have to open his wallet to fill the stadium or help the city build an iron-clad tourist attraction to rival that of the Northside. The only way to compete with that is to field an AWESOME team. The Sox are good, but they are not AWESOME, like the team the Northside has and the likes of the Yankess and Boston teams. You have to have a reason to get folks to come out. Not just compete - but win and obliterate. And there are a BUNCH of Cubs fans waiting to defect, but the Sox have to make it happen. If we are not going to field an star-studded team from top to bottom, then we will not be able to draw fans. Whitesox fans - actually work for their money. Kenny and JR can cry unti Lake Michigan fills up. No studs, no fans. This is not the Chicago Bulls where there is only one team in town.

Cubs don't have baseball fans they have tourists and beer-garden visitors. That's all Wrigley is. But they also field a top-notch team with a good coach. They underachieve, but even that serves their mystique. I understand Cubs fans. Have a good time.

Ok I understand that the economy has drawn less people to the Ball Parks this year. The economy has hurt all industries too. If Kenny Williams wants to put blame on that he is highly wrong. Yes the Cubs get a lot of tourist and its becuase the mistic of Wrigley. The fact of the matter is, Reinsdorf has tight pockets this year and there's not much Kenny can do. It's funny how A man can bash the teams fans for what his boss limits him to do. Instead of bashing the fans, keep it in house and see if you have a job next year Kenny. We the fans know Reindorf is mad for building them a staduim that the fans payed for and is not making the kind of profit he would like. So keep your sob stories in house and stop blaming your fans. The next thing you'll see is 5000 people showing up for a sqaud that will the central anyway. Thanks alot Kenny your a class act. Right! NOT!

Your Truly a Cubs Fan Ken.

Well at least Kenny Williams is communicating to the media and fans and trying to be as honest as he can be (or playing spin doctor depending on your perspective), unlike the other GM of the other Reinsdorf-owned team. What's really more disheartening, being open or being silent?

Kenny specifically called out the Dodgers series here, but I have yet to see a writer call out the Sox for their bone headed two tiered premium pricing structure. 50 bucks to sit in the outfield or 100 for grandstands for a weeknight game?! - all the games still count as one W or one L no matter if they're playing the Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, or the lowly dregs of the AL Central. The fans responded with a clear message and plenty of empty seats for what could have been a big draw with the Dodgers, especially with the nice weather ... and management just doesn't seem to get it.

Now twice in last 3 weeks I agree with Keith - what's going on here.

Is this new news? Seems like every 2 or 3 years Kenny or JR remind us of their disadvantages vs. the Cubs.

I agree with Edgar. I prefer honesty over market-driven silence. The players and even the fans know exactly where they stand with both Kenny and Ozzie.

It's massively tough to get into serious arguments about the difference between Sox and Cubs fans--even though I've been a part of it all my life! The best that we can do is come up with gross generalizations about the differences. I've stated that there are many Cub fans within my own extended family and friends. Still, we love and respect each other. The jabbing is all in good fun. Moreover, there isn't really an appreciable difference between us socioeconomically speaking.

Having said that, I do think that there are general differences. If we're serious, it's more like comparing an "American" to a "Frenchman." In other words, it may or may not be the case, but is only so in the general sense.

Let's face it, not even a Cub fan can refute the Cubs have an attraction that extends above and beyond the teams themselves--Wrigley Field. It doesn't attract me, but it does attract a great many in and of itself. You can include the immediate surroundings of "Wrigleyville" versus the lack of such charms in Bridgeport. Even the names themselves have their own positive and negative connotations respectively. I lived in Bridgeport for a year and visited many a good friends and venues around Clark and Addison.

The Sox fans are more discerning about simply just going to the ballpark and spending their money. Many Sox fans--not all--are blue-collar or blue-collar off-shoots (the latter meaning we might become white collar, but we still tend to discriminate how we spend our dollars because of our upbringing). True, these are generalizations and don't apply to all. We need to understand that, but the business of even generalizing social groups is what puts presidents in office!

Add to the aforementioned paragraph the fact that the economy is down. In general terms, which group is going to be more effected by a downtrodden economy? Let's get real here! Don't also forget the ballpark/neighborhood attractions. One team has them. The other team does not.

It also follows that, typically, Sox fans don't come out when the weather isn't great which tends to be often during April and May and more often perhaps since they play at night so much more which tends to be colder. It's partly due to discriminating their use of funds, but also extends to another generalization--many more Sox fans are steeped into a family-oriented culture whereas the Cub fans are much more singles-based. Again, this is a massive generalization! Nevertheless, the Sox fan is also thinking "Hmm, do I want bring my family of five, drop well over a 'C-note,' and go and watch a mediocre baseball team?"

I want to end this argument by making a statement about Chicago fans in general. Chicago has a reputation has having some of the greatest fans in the country. It even becomes a part of a cultural pride to be a "great fan" versus being somebody who is more discriminating about how closely he or she might follow this team or that team. I think that being a "great fan" can also be a detriment to winning championships, especially when ownership themselves aren't so invested in winning at all cost.

I live in the Seattle area. It is important that the Mariners and Seahawks win, but it isn't like the "end all" in life for virtually everybody. You don't see folks taking losses throughout their days or yelling and screaming displeasure on sports talk radio. Moreover, if the team is bad, they're not coming. Then, the pressure is on management to put a high-quality team on the field. They may botch move after move because they're incompetent managers, but they still know what needs to be done and who's ultimately responsible. In this case, good business is equated with winning--plain and simple.

I could go through life being the "great fan" like many in Chicago and waste a lot of time and money being part of what is little more than a scam, effectively speaking, that is controlled by powers other than myself. The problem is that I have become part of the problem by being a "great fan." The owner sees this "great fan" sitting in the seat and says, "Well, if we win, great, but if we lose--well, you see that 'great fan' over there." Remember what P.T. Barnum said? "There's a fool born every minute." Well, I don't want Cub fans or Bull fans to think I'm calling them fools, but I think there's a lot of significance there that concerns winning championships from a business angle. Look no further than the low number of championships won in Chicago over the modern era with the exception of the Micheal Jordan-driven teams or teams like the '85 Bears that were just too good to not win.

I think Cub fans have historically been their own worst enemies in being such "great fans." Count on Cub fans to come out throughout the year because of Wrigley, Wrigleyville, and add to that the fact that there's terrific "on paper" talent on that roster. Then, how many of those Cub fans are also Bears, Bulls and even Hawk fans? No, these other teams don't have Wrigley or Wrigleyville or lazy summer days, but there is some significant extension to these other teams and their lack of success.

Finally, I think the criticism of what Kenny said is being put under a microscope unfairly. I don't think he was blaming fans so much. This is a story that's growing its own legs IMHO.

I was going to go to one of the Sox-Dodgers games until I saw that the cheapest tickets were $33. The Dodgers might have a good record, but I don't think very many people in Chicago care about them. If the White Sox want their fans to come to their games, they should rethink their ticket pricing. The only regular season games where I would pay $33 for nosebleed seats would be when the Cubs come to the Cell.

Gig - I don't disagree with any of your points or generalizations.

Also, to remind people, the list of GMs in this city with a championship banner is REAL short.

If the team starts winning more consistently then people will come. Kenny points to that Dodger's series but the sox were playing inconsistent ball then. I don't want to pay money to see a mediocre team and I think most sox fans feel that way. The cubs draw because they are the lovable losers. They are the underdog that everyone roots for, hoping for them to win. Just as Obama said sox fans are real fans. We are about winning and losing. When you lose we show are disappointment by not showing up.

cubs payroll is $40,000,000 higher this year. sox are bush league right now. if reinsdorf and kenny can't afford even one more good player, they need to sell the team now. this team has 0 chance to contend without another ace pitcher or two. expect to see less fans, not more, until they invest in the team. i personally wont pay outrageous prices to watch mediocrity. cant wait to vote for this story on Whine of the Week

This is typical Reinsdorf.
Jerry is a former tax attorney for the IRS and made his money in real estate.
He buys a baseball team costing millions and then whines about the money.
He puts some of the games on pay T.V. (Sportsvision) and then cries about how much it costs to run a MLB team.
He claims that he can’t afford to upkeep the team’s home… the same home that broke Bill Veeck’s heart when he handed over the keys to Jerry Reinsdorf and Eddie Einhorn, and starts his campaign against his own park.
He buys the Chicago Bulls all the while claiming that he can't afford to run his baseball team.
He then threatens to move the team to Tampa if he does not get the tax payers to build him a stadium. Give me your money or else!
They cave in but Jerry is not happy yet.
He just has to have a say so in the park's design and he wants lots of luxury boxes and if it means that the fans in the upper deck are treated like dirt… well so the hell what.
They cave in yet again.
Comiskey Park, the oldest ballpark in the majors and the White Sox home for 80 years is torn down and made into a parking lot like it was nothing more than an old warehouse.
To Jerry it was.
He did the same thing to the Chicago Stadium.
Decades of Chicago sports history are now just paved lots to park your car. He is from Brooklyn and it was not his history... not his memories.
He loves to remind people about how sad he was when Ebbits Field was torn down yet he was all smiles when our ballpark was reduced to rubble.
Now Jerry is happy.
The new park opens and the fans come but it is bland, cold and lacks everything that Comiskey had including the much loved local bar that was supposed to be rebuilt but never was. Where is McCuddy’s you bloated liar?
It takes years and millions of dollars to convert Jerry's monument to "I don't get it" into a really nice ballpark but he has already burned a lot of bridges with White Sox fans by this time for several reasons like the White Flag trade, the strike, the shabby treatment of Carlton Fisk.
He pisses off many others with his pompous attitude towards the sports fans here over the running joke that was once known as the Chicago Bulls.
He is now back to his old game of crying hardship once again while trying to put together a deal to purchase the Phoenix Coyotes hockey team.

It is hard to reach into your pocket and give your hard earned money to a man like this and there are a lot of people who feel that way.

I've got to hand it to you Phil, you really understand what's been going on for the past thirty odd years. Jerry may be a great guy to the people he's close to, but he certainly is hard to like for the rest of us.

Much like Bill Wirtz, "it's his way or the highway" which is his right I suppose, but who really loses in the end? It's the fan who wants to care about everything significant connected with his team. I remember the first time I set foot in "The Cell." It was the infant year of that building's existence. I was with my dad, brother, some of my uncles and cousins. Each of us were-and are still--die hard Sox fans. My point is that we really wanted to say very nice things about the new park. To a man, it was obvious that we collectively thought, "this is o.k." After all that we'd been through almost losing the team to St. Petersburg, Florida because of JR, all we can come up with is "it's o.k."? Moreover, we were in good seats just a few rows up from first base!

Then, as if to add insult to injury, all these other ballparks sprang up like Camden Yards, Jacobs Field, The Ballpark in Arlington, and on and on and on. And we're like, "These are way cool ballparks. Why couldn't we get one like theirs?" Jerry was confronted about that fact several years ago prior to the remodeling. He said, "Well, I wanted a symmetrical ballpark." Yeah, YOU WANTED. It's all about YOU Jerry! Never mind that the fans paid for it through their tax money. Never mind that fact. I don't even recall you having the marketing acumen to give the fans several designs to choose from. That would have drawn rave reviews. But, no, it has to be Jerry's way--plain, old, colorless, hard-to-listen-to, all-business Jerry Reinsdorf. Of course, a personality like that would choose a ballpark like that!

Let's not also forget that he was a principal behind the disastrous strike of 1994!

Thankfully, JR has at least been enough of a fan of baseball to let Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen pretty much run the show. Kenny's the "riverboat gambler" whom Sox fans feel confident is doing all he can to win. Ozzie is an underrated manager probably due to both his big mouth and the monster lineups he's had, but excels when given a team with which he can play "small ball." Guillen also handles pitchers very well. Jerry also has opened up his checkbook more than we might expect over the years. Remember Albert Belle? Yeah, that turned south, but most Sox fans liked it when we signed him! He did put up decent numbers anyway.

Now, Jerry has to face the facts that he himself has little if any popularity do largely to the way he is and what he's done overall. He had nothing whatsoever to do with Michael Jordan being on the Bulls. Because MJ wasn't connected at all to JR, he couldn't wait to have the slightest reason to blow up a championship team in great part because "it has to be Jerry's way." Well, it was Jerry's way. It was also Jerry Krause's way. They started the mess that is the Chicago Bulls and it continues and continues and continues. It will probably continue until the United Center becomes like a morgue. No, that won't happen. It seems to have sold out even through their atrocious years. The fans can blame themselves to a some degree. Perhaps that's another significant reason that the White Sox have a world championship under their belts--it's because the fans don't show if there is no "show."

Great Stuff on this Board!!!

I love Kenny - but he can tell Jerry "WE WILL SPEND OUR MONEY - WHEN JERRY SPENDS HIS!!!!!"

And I WISH that could go for the Bulls fans too - but I got a strong feeling that many of them are Cubs Fans. They are buying tickets just because. Same with the Bears, but at least the Bears have spent some of their money.

Do you remember when Reinsdorf made a big stink about the city wanting to have the Public League High School Championship game played at the Cell?
This game had been moved back and forth between Wrigley and Comiskey for years without any problems.
He bitched and whined and claimed that these teenagers playing a game on that field would ruin it and the city actually gave him his way.
Why?

They should have told him that it was the taxpayer’s ballpark and he could go straight to hell.
Jerry Reinsdorf does NOT own this ballpark and that should make the selling price that much more attractive to a new owner.
Swallowing their pride and selling the naming rights to a cell phone company has paved the way for the renovations that have taken place and if it were up to Jerry the Sox would still be playing in his ugly blue and white shell.

I wonder how things would have turned out if the crusty old idiots known as the MLB owners had approved the sale of the White Sox to Eddie DeBartolo Jr. instead of Reinsdorf.
How did the 49ers do while he was the owner there? During his 22 years in controlling the team, they won five Super Bowls and had the best winning percentage for a decade in NFL history.
The players and fans in San Francisco loved him and we ended up with this clown.

Sell the teams Jerry and go back to New York.
You can start an expansion team in New Jersey and call them the Palisades Park Piscopos.

Look at all these typical White Sox crybabies using Cub fans as a shield to mask the the fact they are too cheap to support their team that just so happens to be in the middle of a pennant race. Keep up the good work cheapskates!

As of this moment, (and I fully realize that the moment could be short lived) the Sox are playing some of the best baseball in their division, if not the entire league.

Why the need to search out the negatives in this time of relative prosperity is beyond me.

As far as I'm concerned Ozzie is a very good manager and is by himself alone worth the price of admission, while on the other side of town, the once firey Pinella looks like a mummy on Zanax.

The way that Jose has rebounded is a blessing, and Mark continues to pitch like the All Star that he is, and Danks is no slouch either.

Meanwhile, Konerko seems to have finally located his bat, and Alex is coming around too.

It's all good from where I'm sitting.

Go Sox!

Mark, you have a great point.

"Go Cubs Go," I knew your stereotypical "Cub-fan-ness" wouldn't let me down. You are one who simply doesn't get it when it comes to economics. You just don't understand how much people like yourself have a hand in the 101-year drought. It's not in your Cubbie-blue blood to understand apparently. Instead, you have to resort to calling us "crybabies" while continuing to swim the River Denial.

Nevertheless, while perhaps ill-timed due to the fact that the Sox have been playing well--believe me, it's not lost on this writer--Stu wrote the column that basically could be construed as baiting fans to call out Kenny as the "King of Whine." Also, there has been a lot of dismay on FCP about the pit of quicksand in which the Bulls are finding themselves. If you look at it that way, these "negative" rants are very timely. I personally couldn't find a better time to call out the real culprit over the years.

That said, I go back to my beloved White Sox and root them on. I love the direction this ballclub is headed. Let the River Denial flow. It's gravity one of nature's laws.

Stu, I just wanted you know that I realize that it's basically your job to bait us. I meant no disrespect. Keep up the good work.
Stu responds: Thanks, Gig. I love the passion that posters to this blog have for their teams, and the way they respond to provocative topics. Ken Williams is never afraid to speak his mind, and as Neil Hayes writes in Thursday's Sun-Times, he is justified in pointing out that tough economic times are affecting what he can do as a GM. But it's usually never a good idea to imply that the fans are to blame for anything involving team operations.

Go Cubs Go

As long as wrigley stadium sits within a short cab ride from some high rent zip codes, they will continue to pack 'em in - no denying that. It is reality...

I'll stick with my 2-3 games per year with the Sox and be proud of it. Having a real life also limits my attendance..

I agree with Villano.
This is the type of coverage that the Sox get in Chicago and it is nothing new. Ignore the fact that are playing very well and have a good chance to win their division. Fine.

Focus on the Cubs and if and when they finish in 3rd place you can write a big sob story about how they have not won anything in 101 years and how the poor suffering Jonus Brothers.... er... I mean Cub fans just love their cuddly losers.

Hey... how is that guy who vowed to go on a hunger strike/low cal diet until the Cubs win 5 in a row doing?
Is he dead yet?

Same here Stu.
If you did not bring up topics for us to debate and talk about then there would be no purpose for the blog in the first place.
You are doing a great job.
Stu responds: This blog is only as good as the people who read it and take the time to post their comments. That kind of feedback is what brings the conversation to life, and it is very much appreciated.

Go Cubs Go, as a born in cubbie blue fan I have to say that you and others like you that refer to Sox fan's as cry-babies at times makes me want to keep quiet as a cubs fan. It's all about the teams not the fans and if Sox fans are smart enough to stay away when the product is bad and cub fans continue to fill the seats inspite of 101 yrs of mediocrity what does that make us?
Villano I couldn't agree with you more about Lou, Ive seen plays last year and this that in days gone by he would have tossed bases in the outfield, kicked dirt on umpires and looked like he was aout to spontaneously combust yet he sits in the dugout arms folded across his chest and shakes his head. Lou it's time you went fishing.

Once again White Sox fans show their ignorance in a vein hope to discredit Cubs fans event thought the base argument has nothing to do with Chicago Cubs attendance.

Look at the numbers FACT: WIN OR LOSE you don't support your team.

Very simply, the year the White Sox won the World Series, the vaunted "knowledgeable-only-go-to-games-if-they-are-contenders" Sox fans averaged a paltry 28,923 fans per game. The next season they had a minor bump, but it was quickly back to their pathetic attendance numbers the year after. Fact is White Sox fans, you get the payroll you deserve and pay for! Which is a shame for you all since Jerry M. Reinsdorf clearly loves baseball ahead of his other sports endeavors (ex.- the Bulls).

Cubs fans just don't get it. We know the DIFFERENCE between loving and supporting our team, and getting chumped. I LOVE the Whitesox and I am going to root for them for as long as I have breath. But My money is as important to me as JR's is to him. On the Southside - YOU GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR! J.R. dont like it - let him sell the team and roll out - or SPEND SOME CASH and compete with the CUBS.

When it comes to the Sox and the Bulls - Reinsdorf has two different women - one on the Westside that bends over and gives him what he wants with little or no effort, and the one on the Southside that he has to MARRY and go all in to get what he wants.

Thats bidness, and has nothing to do with the GM, Manager or Team which we adore. If it wasn't for them - the Cell would have cobb webbs on it! We are REAL baseball fans and know everything there is to KNOW about the Sox from the farm to the field. And the Sox know US, which is why they play the way they do - HARD. Because if they are simply not good enough - we won't PAY. And all we have to show for it is a team on its way to the top. But as Kenny noted above - that comes with HELP from very selective fans.

Blaming the sox problems on the fans is a cheap move by a cheap franchise. They are too busy stuffing the bosses bags with cash so he can haul it off to arizona and buy a hockey team there to worry much at all about the fans.

Comparing the Sox to the Cubs isn't a fair comparison. It is comparing apples to oranges. The Cubs and Wrigley field are National Icons and must see attractions for visitors to Chicago. The sox are only moderately popular on the south side. These teams are orders of magnitude apart, no comparison really.

Here is an example of how one of the largest airlines in the world with a huge chicago hub sees this: http://aadvantagemilestones.com/index.php?pagesid=20 For the reading comprehension challenged among us, american airlines list seeing a baseball game as a must do activity for a visit to chicago, but not just any baseball game, and definitely not a sox game. They list a visit to Wrigley field as one of the top 10 things to do for visitors to chicago. That's not a cubs fan talking that is a major airline talking to it's customers around the world about what to do in Chicago.

The sox and ohter chicago sports teams are not even in the team picture.

do the Sox even have enough fans to fill that stadium?...The San Antonio Sox has a nice ring to it

heck, I'm not a hater at all...but they were the big who cares for as long as I can remember...look at the World Series they won...who cared?...and nobody watched it

The "Cub" experience at Wrigley Field defies logic so I won't attempt an explanation but rather say there is no "Sox" experience at the Cell. For most fans it is simply a decent place to watch a MLB game featuring a home town team.

With most of those fans sporting a home entertainment system now, the price must be right.

The Sox should offer coupons for stuff & future tickets for those who pay to park. After the first pitch, the Sox should offer 2 for 1 ticket specials subject to availability in any section.

These ideas won't hurt existing sales, demonstrate a good faith effort on the Sox to welcome more fans, & should boost over all sales.

Go Cubs...so in your infinite wisdom, what happens to attendance to each team if the Cubs and Sox switch parks?

I Totally agree with HITMAN! (i know, hell must be freezing over) but I do. WHO CARES ABOUT THE SOX?

Also, Keith..you act like only people on the south side can be afficianado's. Like they are the only ones who appreciate the qualities of something. Dude...who is stereo typing now?

Come on..if anything...Cubs fans are bigger fans, because they treat the Cubs almost like a religion. Your Faith is required in Good Times and in Bad....

you cant just be a believer when life is good, you have to be a believer when life is tough too, if anything, being a believer when times are bad, is more of a testament to your loyalty and fan hood.

Sox fans just believe when it's convenient.

Of course Cub fans do not care about the White Sox winning the World Series.
What’s a World Series?

The Cubs were so close to playing in Addison yet most of their clueless fans know nothing about that.
Why should they? They don't even know the score of the game that they are at.

Yuppie business owners saw a chance to milk these fools and take their cash for over priced beer and so-so food.
“I will let you sit on my roof far from the field if you pay me $100".
Suckers!
It is easy to shake down people who are sheep and do what they are told by the spirit of Harry.

Harry!
Harry!
Yes, former White Sox and Cardinals announcer Harry.
He spent more time as the announcer for the two teams that Cub fans hate the most than he did with the Cubs and they are oblivious to it all.
Put up a statue of the White Sox announcer that brought the whole 7th inning stretch thing to Wrigley.
Clueless.
My uncle lived two blocks from Wrigley for over 20 years and he never went to a single game. He worked for a living and did not spend his life desperately trying to remain a drunken frat boy forever.
The place was a ghost town until they Disneyfied a few run down old buildings and passed it off as tradition.
“Yo Todd, lets head over to Jimmy John’s after the game!”
Lee Elia was right.

Manufactured fluff for people who love their entertainment light, watered down and carefully packaged and show up dressed in their little Cub fan uniform of GAP t-shirts and Old Navy cargo shorts.
Take away the old ladies from Iowa and their tour buses and you have your 2 million a year and no ring for a century.

Congratulations Cubs fans.
You pack your shrine and still can't come close to a title so who is the fool?

Hahaaaaa....
I like how Culzie says that Cub fans are even more knowledgeable than Sox fans because they treat the Cubs almost like a religion.

Since when has religion been the measuring stick when it comes to knowledge?
Faith (feyth)-noun
Belief that is not based on proof.

No wonder you believe in curses and other superstitious nonsense.
Get out of the dark ages.

"Go Cubs Go," I knew your stereotypical "Cub-fan-ness" wouldn't let me down. You are one who simply doesn't get it when it comes to economics. You just don't understand how much people like yourself have a hand in the 101-year drought. It's not in your Cubbie-blue blood to understand apparently. Instead, you have to resort to calling us "crybabies" while continuing to swim the River Denial."

Gig, I don't know if you're confused or simply mistaken, but I'm a die hard Sox fan, and couldn't give a rat's ass if the Cubs never win another game the rest of the season, or for the next 101 years for that matter.

Mark,

I am confused. I'm confused at what you just wrote me. Who said I gave a rat's rooty tooty about the Cubs winning another game? To be sure, I have stated in the past that it wouldn't upset me if they finally won it all, but I look more at certain Cub fans, very good people who are family or friends of mine, who have been in a kind of eternal agony while another Cub fan friend of mine might not make it from brain cancer. I guess I'm just a little more altruistic, and I mean just a little, about getting the Cubs to the Holy Grail with some Economics 101 advice. Regardless, you point out that particular quote of mine as evidence that I care significantly which I find peculiar. I'm sorry Mark, but I'm not following.

Apopogies to Gig:

When I read your post, (seeing my name in the first sentence) I mistakenly thought that you were refering to me throughout the entire message. I didn't look back far enough to see that "Go Cubs Go" was the moniker of one of the first to post on this topic

Mea culpa to a good friend and a true Sox fan.

I need to learn to read a little more carefully, and pay closer attention before responding.

Phil...Are there any other qualifiers that you would like to put on your claim? ...

how about..>Sox fans are the most knowledgeable fans who wear black hats and jean shorts?

Culzie - please! I recognize real Cubs fans - and they do exist. There are some folks who call that team and franchise out for what they are. But most Cubs visitors overwhelm the boards and media with foolishness. They don't talk about baseball, they talk about any and everything but baseball. See the reality is - if you are a REAL TRUE dyed-in-the-wool Cubs fan, you will admit the team's obvious glaring problems instead of defend and support them. If the Sox had a 100 year drought and just got swept out of the playoffs in the FIRST ROUND - AT HOME - with a 140million Payroll....I wouldn't even be trying to defend them!!! I would spend every moment criticizing them until they got that right!!! And I certainly wouldn't be knocking the Sox who have WON a recent World Series, consistently wins their division while spending less money, and who leads the crosstown classic and just got fresh off our behinds. Cubs fans don't think about stuff like that, their conversation is about any and everything but that. Their response to the Cubs is in Ronnie Woo Woo Fashion: Cubs woo Cubs woo Cubs woo. Cubs Woo is your answer to suck baseball. And as long as that's your answer - its going to suck. Cubs have a Los Angeles Lakers payroll and no championships. And you fans are the REASON why. I know "Cubs Woo" right? You guys are a public icon, but a private joke. A 101 year old virgin. And I wouldn't NEVER support that.

You and Hitman have the nerve to say stuff like "who cares" about the Whitesox. A comment dripping with Plastic Hollywood Celebrity Elitism. You are making it WORSE and don't even know it. Just like the Republicans who tried to say Obama won by a sleight margin. That's your world. Just because a few hating Cubs fans didn't put down their grey poupon doesn't mean that the rest of the city didn't watch in amazement and celebrate the Sox including the President and Mayor. BASEBALL fans care about and support the Whitesox. Kenny and Jerry want our money - then they are going to have to do what it takes to get it. We are not Woo-woo heads.

Keith, perhaps because I didn't have the pleasure of being there at the time, I completely forgot about the incredible celebration of the the Sox World Series victory in downtown Chicago. Even I was surprised and impressed by the vast multitudes who came out to show their appreciation. When people make references about "Who cares about the White Sox?" they might reconsider based on that celebration alone.

Phil - I forgot to give you big ups! I am annointing you my official Sox Spokesman Extraordinaire. Nobody and I mean nobody does it better! You are the big brother I get - when things get hot on the block!

Tears streaming from laughter!!!! TEARS!!!!!

ya see...I was just pokin fun...ya know, like Sox fans do to Cubs fans

go ahead...make fun of the Cubs..I'll make fun of em right along with you

I find it much more pleasurable to laugh and poke fun at my teams rather than stress why they blow so badly...and when I do it here on the blog...I'll never accuse you guys of not being entertaining

I guess what I'm trying to say is, "Don't settle down Francis, and that story, about you and the Cow..and your friend tried to make it with the cow..."

keep typin

I like Ritchie Zisk...and UHF channel 44, but and and so that's as far as it goes...

and stu... your blog about lovie's coaching ability...listen, he's a yes man and there is no real competition in camp..or hasn't been (ie..RexandCed ring a bell?)...so my answer to your question...

Tony Sporano (man enough to stand up to a Bill Parcells) is the coach I most admire...and Tomlin

Jerry and the Yes Men need to be bounced out of Chicago

always football in Chicago

and good luck White Sox....and do the Sox still give tickets to students who don't miss any school or get all A's??

I got that all through school...sat next to Minnie....forced my family to actually do things together...good times

Any sharp individual would know that Kenny is not 'directly' blaming things on the fans; it's just business, and our fans had trouble buying into it in '05 until the end. That's just the way it's been for some time. We've not been a loaded Yankees or Dodgers team, pretty much ever, so I look for another attendence boom, come late September, when the South Side Mix is neck-n-neck at the finish line. Hey, we did it in '05 with the same amount of talent; why not again!

I've said it often; it's easier to squeeze water out of a rock then get Squeeky to spend some money. Once these KIDS start pulling their end, look for Kenny, Ozzie and (ahummmm) Jerry to look like geniuses again.

I'll tell you, when we start putting these missed double plays together, the youngsters field basic ground balls, the pen starts getting as consistent as that excellent bunch is capable of and Carlos comes back to rid us of any center field cancer, I really like are chances.

If I can only afford half price Mondays, so be it. If the Sox can't do any more than they've done, so be it.

If you're truly a White Sox fan, then be it!

P.S. I'd like to see the Sox go after one more starter though, and I think K.C.s Bannister can be got at a price even 'Ken and Jerrys' can afford.

"101 year old virgin"
Damn!
Thanks Keith! I almost shot beer out of my nose when I read that.
Your post hit the nail on the head but it will probably go right over Culzie's.

What’s wrong Culzie?
I thought you were all geeked up about the *breathlessly* "Hottest NBA off season in the last 10 years".
If you want to get misty eyed because a bunch of washed up basketball players are switching teams and ignore the baseball season then go ahead.
It should be easy for you by now being a Cub fan and all.
Listening to Cub fans whine about "Why not us?" reminds me of the Island Of Misfit Toys from Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.
"I'm a Charlie-In-The-Box"
"I'm a squirt gun that shoots grape jelly"
"I'm a train with square wheels"
"I'm a Cub fan"
Cubs Woo!
Cubs Woo!
Cubs Woo!
Cubs Woo Woo Woo Woo Woo!

Maybe the Cubs can play the Mariners in a mock World Series match up between the teams that draw 3 million but never ever win a ring.
The Jonus Brothers vs. Hanson!

White Sox tickets have sky-rocketed to among the most expensive in baseball. In the 1980's I used to go to 15-20 games per year. In the early 90's it dropped to 12-15, by the late 90's it was down to 8-10, early 2000's 5-7, and now, 1-3. Why? I simply cannot afford the expense anymore. Decent seats are 35 bucks, add in parking for 20, some food and drink, next thing you know it is 100 bucks for one person. I don't go alone, so an average trip to the park runs me 150 bucks or higher. I love my Sox, but until I get paid one hell of a lot more (and I make a decent living) it will remain 1-3 games per year.

Mr Kevin,

I agree with you. I make a decent living myself and if I still lived in Chicago, I also wouldn't be going to more than about 3-5 games per year. Once, in 1983, I went to about sixty! Most years, I went so about 20-25 and I would have gone to more if it weren't so inconvenient.

People will tell you that it's the cost of paying these players what they get. O.K., that's a subject for another day altogether. Nevertheless, one should expect that it would at least be somewhat commensurate with the cost of living, right? B.S., no way! When I was nearly destitute as a kid I could find a way to get to Sox games. Now, making a decent living, I wouldn't be going to more than 3-5 simply due to economics and I consider myself an ardent and die hard fan.

I'm very glad that I've been to a myriad of sporting events and rock concerts in my day. It takes the sting off not being able to do it as much anymore.

Gig and Mr. Kevin. I WISH I could have gone to that many games. Its always been too expensive for me. But I am such a big fan that friends and coworkers invite me and let me know about every discounted day and ticket out there. Half Off Days, Fan Appreciation, Office Day, Company Tickets, Radio call in, Online contest... Any way I can, Whitesox or bust!!! I purchased a used car from a dealership because the guy gave me a pair of tickets. He was a season ticket holder (and I noticed from the goodies he had all around his office). That iced the deal. And my wife knew it. His hands were shaking as he sifted through the stack to find a weekend for me. And I am the most conservative customer any car dealer has EVER seen. I prepare myself to haggle until closing and I ALWAYS end up speaking with the manager who must do something to close the deal. So on the rare occassions when I am at a game - it means a great deal to me and my children. When the Whitesox have that Father's Day special, i'm one of the first in line early. (Your children have to be present with you when purchasing)

Gentlemen, I understand.

I'd like to make it clear that I too have been fortunate to have been on the receiving end of quite a few "free" opportunities to see a Sox game in the past. I wasn't counting those when I said that I'd only be making it to about 3-5 per year.

It should never be the fans' fault.