Are you worried about this mini-pattern of Vinny Del Negro sitting Derrick Rose in crunch time?
Rose sat all but 2 1/2 minutes of the fourth quarter Tuesday and came in during garbage time. He still led the Bulls with 22 points in just over 35 minutes - a team high - in a very impressive win over the Orlando Magic.
I don't have a problem with Rose sitting when he's not playing good defense or if the unit on the floor is playing exceptionally well. I think it will teach him a lesson.
I've heard some say it's a bad pattern that started with that bad loss against Miami. That was a brain cramp not to have him in there for the final offensive play. Stupid. Sam Smith was on the "Waddle & Silvy" show and said he thought Vinny just forgot Derrick wasn't on the floor.
But he didn't forget against the Pacers. It was a matter of Rose getting beat on defense.
Against the Magic, the unit on the floor was getting the job done.
Del Negro has just one job this season: to develop Rose. Is he succeeding? It's hard to say Rose hasn't been developing, despite having limited options.
But part of teaching and developing Rose is to point out when he's not playing good enough.
I wouldn't want this to be an extended practice, but I wouldn't panic over a couple of games.
There's a debate as to whether the Bulls should worry about making the playoffs. They're a game back of the 8th spot. I say they should focus on a playoff berth, but not at the expense of developing Rose. I think playoff experience is invaluable, even if it means getting swept out of the first round by the Cavs or Celts.
And I think it might make an impression on 2010 free agents if the Bulls can make the playoffs this season and next. It would show that at least they're improving. It may improve the perception in their eyes of Del Negro, if he's still around.
I don't think Del Negro has lost any confidence in Rose. I think he understands his job is to teach the franchise player. It's just his way of doing it, and it's too early to tell if it's the right way.
I'm more worried that a guy with NO idea how to coach is allowed to coach our best player since MJ. I'm also worried that this situation will get worse and will make him not want to re-sign.
Anyone watch the plays/sets they run? It's comical.
Vinnie...HE'S YOUR BEST PLAYER...GET HIM OUT THERE.
it all depends on the coach, his approach and the player. if it was Skiles I would be concerned that it was the begining of a problem between coachand player. Vinnie seems to have a good relationship with his players and is learning how to coach. superstar players accept challenges and get better. if Rose is the real deal he will respond with improvement. it is unrealistic to concentrate on anything except developing the chemistry of this team. even to the point of losins a few games. I have little interest in watching the Bulls get the 8th seed to be a sacrificial lamb for a #1 seed. we have waited this long for success what is a few more years? I am glad we didn't trade Thomas or Noah. nothing kills me more than seeing a young Chicago player traded and flurishing somewhere else. if this is the plan stick it out. who cares about how impatient Silvy or Carmen are?
Roman, Roman, Roman, .. Rose is good & possibly a future great, but he's still a rookie! It's not practical to expect a rookie to lead a team thru a playoff run. A playoff run this year & next would greatly increase the odds of attracting many in that 2010 FA crop. We are thinking playoffs because both Tyrus & Noah are playing much better. Vinny has to get some credit for that.
If a coach doesn't connect with his players he's worthless in this league. Vinny is definitely bonding with these guys. The best thing about Vinny is that it's obvious now which players get it & which players don't.
With each passing game, it's becoming clear the Bulls don't need Deng. Thomas has been outplaying him for weeks now, & even Noah is starting to upstage him. Miller, Salmon, & Thomas are even showing more energy than Deng. It seems some injury is always nagging him. Being frail is a serious weakness.
Contrast that with Gordon. He's playing better than ever & it's indicative in his desire to look for the assist before the shot now.
I WAS worried about Vinnie, but he is smarter than we gave him credit for. I don't know HOW he did it, but he has reached this team when the last few coaches could not. Vinnie may not have the most elaborate offense, but I am just glad he is getting the effort out of the team. You can have the best ideas in the world, but without a team you have nothing but plans.
Paxson and Vinny have saved their jobs and the team. Paxson with those trades and Vinny by reaching the TEAM. Rose is the priority, but no one player comes before the TEAM and winning GAMES. Vinny is consistent. He is committed to the young guys, but they have to produce. And when they become liabilities offensively or defensively, you have to let them know, from Rose to Tyrus to Noah and Gray. Vinny is challenging ROSE to be better defensively. And its a stroke of genious because Rose must learn to play better defensively, and the rest of the players see that Vinny is holding even their star to the task. It earns their respect. It also earns the veteran player's respect.
Vinny's priorities are developing Rose, Tyrus, Noah and Gray as well. He does that, and the Bulls will have to beat off free agents.
Give Vinny the benefit of the doubt.
It is not like he is some first time never coached before, I don't know what the hell I am doing.....
Oh wait.
Yes this can quickly become one of the dumbest moves in NBA history but I am sure that Pax will not just sit by while the team slips into.....
Oh wait.
I am so fed up with the collection of fools that we have running the pro teams in Chicago. From the coaches to the G.M.s to the owners.
So many small minded, clueless and egotistic buffoons.
Maybe Vinny can get a job as the Bears next offensive coordinator.
The fourth quarter has, more often than not, been our achilles heel all year. There have also been several instances when Derrick, and Gordon and Hinrich as well, have just been smoked by the small, quick guards in the league. At times it was almost demoralizing when you would tell yourself, 'Damn, we gotta score almost every time down 'cause they just can't stop that dude'; and it was, of course, the dreaded fourth quarter. T.J. Ford was just the latest, but there have been plenty beforehand.
I've said it early, and I'll say it often; until Derrick learns to get a better feel of, not only his defensive positioning but the other guys speed and tendencies, he needs to drop and force these guys to beat him from the outside.
Hopefully with the addition of Miller and Salmons, (Tim T I'm not too sure about) we may get better down help, and I'd like to see the Bulls go to a zone every blue moon to counter this. If anything, just to break the flow of the oppositions offensive sets.
Vinny is not the first coach in the history of this game to choose to go with veterans at crunch time to stabilize things. Gordon is our best shooter, yet there have been many a time when he's sitting at the 4 minute mark and on. Tyrus is a game changer under the defensive end, yet he's been there too.
Vinny may have gotten a little too cute during that Indiana game, but sitting Rose wasn't one of his question marks.
I'll tell you one thing though, these three newcomers are going to change the dimension of this team twofold. I see more stability from the second group, less turnovers, stronger outside shooting which will help open things up for EVERYONE, added leadership, a nice compliment of young and old, flash and patience, but more than anything else, a reversal of fortune in the fourth quarters.
I can FEEL IT, and it's not my achilles this time.
Personally, I don't think anyone learns on the bench. You can't simulate actual game time pressure and intensity in practices and on the bench. I was highly critical of all the benching with Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah in the beginning of the season and it showed with the slow development, but now that they had the opportunities to start and play over 30 mins consistently, they've show VAST IMPROVEMENT to the point where people like myself didn't want Tyrus involved in trade talks. I guarantee you that if the trade deadline was at December 1st this season, you would have seen a majority of the bloggers agreeing to include Tyrus in trade packages for Amare or Bosh, but now it was almost 50/50. Now don't get me wrong here, I'm all for benching once in a while if the guy is dogging out there and not listening to the coach, but Rose is not that type of player. I don't like seeing this as a trend for the rest of the entire season that I've been seeing in the last 3 games, especially last night's game against the Magic where Rose was actually playing well for most of the game. 1 game or 2 games, fine, I can understand it depending on the circumstances, but I didn't like it last night. I'm happy that the new vets are showing the young guys how to finish games like this, but as an NBA franchise, you also have to understand who the future pieces of this team are, not just a one-time success at making the playoffs but going nowhere deep. Just be smart and play Rose and let him learn on the floor. Kirk Hinrich running the point with the vets was NOT the sole reason why they pulled away in the 4th quarter. Rose should have been in there by at least the 7 minute mark. I'm not even a Luol Deng fan either, but I didn't like seeing him come back in the game in the 4th quarter with only 2 1/2 minutes left when the game was already out of hand. With no TRUST AND COMMITMENT from the head coach, this will catch up to the younger guys sooner than later, trust me.
Vinny is starting to upset me. I have seen 3 games this year where this guy decides to sit his best all around player on the bench in the stretch couple of mins in the 4th. Rose was 1 for 9 (Hinrich shot 1 for 7 ) Sunday going into the 4th but he had 8 assists. TJ ford hit 10pts when Rose was in the game. Then he rolled up 9 on Hinrich in the 4th and we couldn't score down the stretch. Every time he puts in a so-called defensive player at the end of games that player gets ripped apart by the player who wasn't scoring that much to begin with. Vinny took Rose out in the 4th against Miami when Chalmers finished the game with 6 pts, and he did it against Minnesota where he took both Gordon and Rose out for Thabo and Hinrich to stop Telfair and Foye. Telfair and Foye shot 5 for 21 for the game. Foye ran around the great defensive stoppers and hit a layup to win the game. Vinny and his staff need to be fired. At this point he has shown that he can't coach with intelligence.
Vinny is an idiot. First, if he is benching Derrick for defensive lapses, he needs to bench the entire team. What happened to the concept of team defense? Second, it displays horrible management skills to wait until 50+ games into the season to all of a sudden decide that you want to punish someone for the same thing that has been happening up until that point. Third, as stated, DR is your best player, rookie or not. Steve Nash gets beat on a regular basis and no one is snatching him out of games because of it. It is the fault of the coach if a TEAM cannot keep anyone out of the lane. It is the fault of the coach if if after a training camp, 50 + games, and even more practices, your TEAM has not shown any improvement on defense since day one. Vinny should bench himself.
The coach is not very smart to sit the number one draft pick who is the rookie of the year and the allstar skills champ. The Bulls continue to lack the teaching skills within their coaching staff. They couldn't teach Curry to defensive rebound, they couldn't teach Chandler one offensive move, and now they don't know how to use Derrick Rose in teachable situations. Hinrich is a good support player but Rose is a future allstar. The kid needs to be taught defensive principles and to study the tendencies of opponents. hire a teacher like a Calvin Davis or someone who has been trained to teach fundamentals of defense. Someon who can teach th kid how to defend the pick and roll. (Not an ex player)
I'm done watchng the Bulls. Let me know when vinny's love affair with Hinrich has ended.
Too bad no one can bench Vinny Del Negro because the Bulls play terrible help defense against the pick and roll. This has been a major issue all year and Rose gets a more flack about his defense when a lot of times it's not even his fault.
Fire him!!! The team is barely making the playoffs or maybe out of it by this time and he is benching the franchise player?
The Sybulls strike again! Didn't see the game, but when you have Bobby Simmons and Brook Lopez as your 2nd and 3rd leading scorers for the game, that means one man basically beat you; and if your names not Bird, Kobe, Lebron or Jordan it should never happen. When did Tyrus become an offensive weapon? Did Salmons get a chance to stop Devin? Are Deng, Tyrus, and Gordon union bricklayers or did they cross the line? Ouch!
What a tool.
The Bulls are given the biggest gift since Portland picked Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan and they are looking for a way to screw that up too.
This sounds a lot like Krause not being able to deal with the fact that he did not draft Jordan and wanted to receive more of the credit.
Bulls have all the talent they need to compete. They have a great young star and they have to turn the guy loose. But there is a delicate balance with doing that and losing the TEAM. Rose has to step up also, especially if he is to be the LEADER of the team. And the last time I checked, that is what the point guard is, REGARDLESS of who is captain. Kirk's defense is ok if its a player his size, but if not - Vinny has to learn to get Kirk off the floor and play Rose. At least if Rose gets burned, he can give it right back. And that is what I didn't see enough of last night. Devin is a great offensive weapon - but so is ROSE. We did not challenge Devin defensively and maybe get to one of those guys on the Bench.
Greg is right! Vinny has to be careful with all of the Kirk Hinrich minutes. Kirk is now the #3 or 4 guard on the team. Rose, Gordon, Salmons, Kirk. The team his obviously having a little problem gelling, but they are going to be fine. Kirk is a nice option on defense, but I would start Rose and Salmons, or at least Rose and Gordon. These are players that compliment ROSE. I am so tired of watching Kirk drive under the basket and try to pass.
Now Vinny has to coach Tyrus. Tyrus is getting out of control with that jump shot. If you are open, there is a REASON for it. Don't let the defense dictate your offense. Vinnie needed to get Tyrus out of there in the 3rd and play more Tim Thomas or Salmons.
Vinny is a nice guy, but not the next level guy. But he has earned the right to finish this season. This season is turning into his interview for his next job. I like the man, but he had better start winning some of these games by out-thinking his counterparts, or its going to get ugly. I hate losing games like the one we lost yesterday. We had a poor night shooting, but top to bottom, we are a better team. Devin Harris was terrific, but Vince was neutralized, so we should have won that game.
Wilson - I understand your frustration, but name ONE coach (even if he is dead or coaching on another team) that can come in here this season and just a few days after a trade and do that much better than Vinny?
i'm a little torn on this issue because rose is so talented but definitely plays like a rookie sometimes, especially at the defensive end of the floor. the question that pops in my head is, "is vinny doing enough to develop derrick?" at this point in the season, benching the most talented player on the team during crunch time seems like either an admission of failure on vinny's part, or punishment for lessons not learned on derrick's. either way, it's not a good sign that things are moving in the right direction, and makes me wonder what pax was thinking by bringing in a rookie coach to develop a franchise player and find some maturity in a young team. sure, vinny might be "bonding" with the team, but what has that gotten them in terms of wins? not much more than his predecessors, if anything more at all.
Vinny is a ok coach. Ben Gordon defense is horrible. And Gordon might not even be here next year. I would rather see Rose and Ty Thomas take some lumps learning on the job this year, than trying to learn them next year or the following year. Experience is what helps, i think the emergence of Ty Thomas and Noah this year from the bench has proven that. They have gotten better because they where able to play and figure out things while they are there on the floor, i mean that is how Kirk learned to defend. LAst night we just needed offense because Devin Harris torched everybody