West Coast trip important for Del Negro, Bulls

Too bad it does not decide the fate of John Paxson.
The Bulls could be well on their way to having their 4th head coach in just over a year and that speaks volumes about Pax.
If it meant Paxson getting the ax then I would root for the Bulls to lose every game on this road trip.

Bad player moves, bad drafts, bad coaching decisions and the fear to make the changes needed when the opportunities were dangled in front of him several times make Paxson a failure and his time should be up.
Right now.
Not at the end of the season.
Not "give him one more draft"
Not "wait to see if a 20 year old Rose can save this mess"

Right now.

After watching both the Knicks and Wolves games, the difference in talent was nil if any. We just don't have the skilled players it takes to compete, period. Our best player would be a sophomore in college and our best big man, if you can call him a big, has been hurt. We ARE a .400 team PLAYING like a .400 team. While Rose is no Michael by any stretch, he's cuffed by an inferior posse. Take it for what it is everybody. Add to the fact the better percentage of these knuckleheads disregard respect to coaches and you have a recipe for disaster. I've noticed the short fuse in Vinnys' post game comments. It's definitely getting to him. At this rate he won't make it to the end. He's got to saddle the bronc now or get knocked on his butt. I'm probably the only guy in Chicago who wants to see Hughes succeed because I know what he can bring to the table, but how do you lasso an -------. What a waste! Pisses me off to no end. Oh well, time to pull out the head dress.

Let's go Illini!

Can either of these guys really make the season, that is if it continues THIS way??? I can't stand Reinsdorf but I'm am certain of this - he's no dummy. Will fans continue to support this team that presently is less talented (without D.Rose ... and now after thinking about it, possibly WITH D.Rose) than the team Paxson inherited? I can only guess on that, but my guess is not-a-chance! And if the fans leave in droves, Reinsdorf has only one "play" to go with. ...On a different matter, I only see Paxson on an occasional cameo down here, but it is obvious that this crew has really aged and disappointed John P. I can see Pax stepping down and then Vinny getting fired. I hate the thought of either guy losing his job - which of you really wants to see anyone lose a job? - but, unfortunately is part of the business.

Great Posts. I don't think we can survive as an organization if we continue to have such huge, cavernous defiences at Coach and GM.

On this road trip, success for Vinny would be to have the team compete in every game. I don't think we will win one of them, but its not that you lose, but that you grow as a unit.

Success on this trip for Pax is that his coach reaches his talent, if Vinny can't then Pax must either get better talent or a better coach.

And I really appreciate Navarro's post because he shed light on Derrick Rose. He is not MJ, nor is he in that area code. Paxson and Vinny's job is to shape this guy into a top-flight, next level point guard of the future. And there are two kinds; the kind that passes first and the kind that shoots first. I am interested in Rose developing into Chris Paul vs. Allen Iverson.

First of all Pax needs to make a move before the trade deadline. If Hughes isn't going to be played get whatever you can for him. Gordon has been quoted in the paper alot lately about what they need to do to close games, well DUH, Ben you're one of the guys standing around with his thumb up his butt instead of moving without the ball to either get in a possition to receive a pass or to prevent Rose from getting trapped. Regardless of Gordon's scoring his defense is non-existant for the most part and I think the fact that he couldn't get a contract done during 2 off seasons has him playing only to see how much he can score and see if it gets him a contract elsewhere next season. It's time to part ways with Ben before the trade deadline and get something for him instead of getting nothing.
For those of you calling for Pax's head, as long as the bottom line on the accountants spread sheet is black I doubt Reinsdork even knows the names on the roster so I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Remember that's the guy that said one WS ring meant more to him then six NBA championship rings.

I saw some good games on my recent FREE TRIAL NBA LEAGUE PASS

the Wolves game was a game we coulda won. I think alot of this comes down to IDENTITY.

We havent really had a Team Identity in a while. We kinda had a bit of a shut down, run and gun identity under skiles. Sort of the Old Phoenix of the East.

But now what are we? The All Long Arms Team?

Good Article Roman my old friend ;) I too hope we kick mad b*** and find ourselves this road trip and figure out who we are as a team.

This franchise is in complete freefall.

Food for thought -- if the five worst franchises by team record and the Bulls were disbanded and their players all had to find jobs with other teams, there is only one Bulls player who MIGHT be considered a starter for another team (Rose).

Just about every other player on their team would come off the bench (Deng, Gordon, et al) or not make another team's roster.

That's the "talent" on the Bulls.

Charles Barkley had them pegged last year as a no-talent team. Even with Rose, they have only moved the talent meter a smidgeon because there is no one else to complement him.

Let's move on.

How about more posts about the Hawks or the Wolves or the freaking Fire. Hell, I'll take the Kane County Cougars or Ryne Sandberg's next coaching assignment. But the Bulls? Why waste the space?

I think a lot of talent exists on the bulls and this coaching staff needs to be given an oppotunity to develope it on the Nba level.
If behind the doors they have lost the attention of the team already, then they should release them and bring in the coach they should have hired in the first place. Doug Collins,he would have been the perfect coach to develope this young talent just as he taught the multi- world championship bulls to play before Phil Jackson reaped the benifits.

Seedy, come on man! I am cracking up, but you are wrong. The scary part about the Bulls is that we have guys that would not only start but excel on other teams. You would be hard-pressed to find an ex-Bull that was not starting or being a major contributer. Its like leaving the Bulls is some kind of commuted sentence or something!!

Derrick Rose would be an allstar on a great deal of other teams. And if you think Tyson Chandler is catching alley-oops, imagine Tyrus Thomas on the wing of a Chris Paul pass. Absolutely Sickening. And believe it or not, you would not want to see Noch on a team like Boston, LA, San Antonio. Deng would start on a lot of squads. Gordon would be a 6th man. Its CHICAGO. Its sad. We have to right this ship.

KLSS --

Really? Mr. Inconsistent Tyrus Thomas who plays every once in awhile in a focused way would start on a lot of other teams?

Deng, Mr. Small Forward with a Soft Game, would start? He's a dime a dozen in this league.

Noce and Gordon would be sixth men, but not starters.

So, like I said, Rose would be the most likely to start on another team. That leaves the Bulls with a lot of second stringers, role players and the like. Even if you throw Thomas in as a starter, that's a HUUUUUUUGGGGGEEEEE stretch.

So are you saying, KLSS, that the Bulls have the talent, but it's the coach?

I thought we played that song last year.

Skiles must be laughing all the way to Milwaukee.

As we all know, the Bulls are a mess. Pax made a big mistake by hiring Vinny. Come on Pax, there was NO ONE else availible? How do you hire unexperianced to lead unexperianced? It's like the blind leading the blind. I've always thought that he was bad GM. He got lucky in '04 when he drafted Gordon, Deng, Duhon and signed Noch. No one knew that those guys would take the post-floyd team to playoff glory after starting 0-9 that year.

One of the issues with the Bulls is that they do not know how to develop talent, define roles according to talent and sign ROLE players for too much money. Pax gave too much money to Chandler, Same thing with Ben Wallace and with Luol. I'm not sure if the Bulls are in position to sign REAL talent because of these dumb signings.

Over the past couple of years, they have had talent, but don't know what the hell to do with it. The Bulls had Eddy Curry and Chandler, didn't know how to use them. Had Duhon and Wallace, didn't know how to use them. Got Gordon, don't know how to use him. The Bulls have talent, they just need to develop it.

And Pax, if you do trade, don't just get anything.

Seedy, Skiles stop laughing a few days ago when he lost Michael Redd for the rest of the season.

I'm saying its the gunshy GM, Rookie Coach and Rookie Point guard ALL at the same time. Thats a lethal cocktail.

Gooden, Deng, Gordon, Thomas and Hinrich can go start for any 10 under 500 and there are MANY. Certainly the last few teams we lost to, especially Minnesota and all the expansion teams. Even Hughes would start on the expansion teams. Noch is a bench guy, but I tell you the truth - teams would not want to see him in the playoffs on any of the contenders. He's a beast and gamechanger in the right situation. And Thomas is a freak with the right point guard, like Nash, Kidd, Nash, Paul or Billups. He and Rose have NO Chemistry. On the right team he could post 18pt, 10 boards, 4 blocks, 3 steals almost EVERY night. And those are AVERAGES. Deng is soft as a marshmellow, but that soft, jump-shooting joker would start on a lot of teams.

Where are all my "The Core, The Core, gotta keep together the Core" ists now?

That Kobe trade Pax failed to pull the trigger on will be go down in infamy as the worst NON trade that coulda happened.

In 10 years some kid Bulls fan will read about that period and be like...

"They didnt trade a guy named who for the Hall of Famer and umteen championship and mvp award winner Kobe Bryant?

DANG?

You have to be kidding me!!???"

KLSS --

Sorry, but in my original post, I eliminated all of the expansion teams (the five worst teams by record plus the Bulls). So most of our Bulls starters would have a tough time finding a starting gig.

Don't worry about Skiles. He still is laughing because he's no longer part of the Bulls dis-organization.

I'm gonna go off on a limb here and say Rose, Gooden and Deng could easily start for 40% of the teams in the league, with Derrick probably getting the nod closer to 80%. In order of rank;

1) Rose; tremendous upside and once he gets that three under his wraps, LOOK OUT. Still needs to recognize driving and dump situations, especially when an ERASER is roaming the paint.

2) Gooden; unorthodoxed, but effective jumper from 18'. Descent rebounder who has a better spin move than shown. Short jump hook and free throws need more consistency. Bright spot in starless sky.

3) Deng; FINALLY starting to rebound like he's capable of; excellent slasher with quick pull-up jumper from 15' and, second to Rose, next best finisher.

4) Gordon; Without his offense we'd be wavering. That's all, but enough to get him to number 4 on this list.

5) Nocioni; 'The Thorn' who never stops hustling. Streak shooter who has the quick feet to take it to the hole as well as many in this league, but chooses to fall in love with the jumper instead (where's the coaching). Hard-nosed complainer.

6) Noah; Can't deny his rebounding abilities and height, something he brings with consistency. Worse feet on the team (hurts his put-back chances) and plays like a timid seventh grader at the stripe in the offensive set.

7) Sefolosha; With more playing time could be higher on the list. I'm miffed!

8) Hinrich; Sophomore jinx? Try junior, senior, and so on; first year was his best. Shot hasn't improved and it's hard to be one of the best defenders when you're consistently saddled with foul trouble, but I guess 20 minutes of 'D' is better than no 'D', right Ben.

9) Thomas; Don't get me wrong, I love this guys potential, it's just that I'm not seeing a growing curve at all. Way too many bad decisions force this kids bench time, nothing more, but enough. I'm sorry but he should have stayed, AT LEAST, one more year in school.

10) Gray; NO HANDS! LEAD FEET! HESITANT! Let me work with this kid during the summer and you'd have Jerry Rice, Dwight Stones, and Roberto Duran all rolled up! Kinda sorta.

Larry Hughes, you talented bum!!! One of dese days Alice!!!

Go Illini!

Good way to start the Trip.

The team looked inspired last night. Rose and Deng came out like gang busters and even Aaron Gray played good.

I was watching the game *on the free league pass trial

and I just kept hearing Keiths line about...seeing our guys on other teams and HE IS 100% right. We would hate to see Noah or Thomas on another team. We are close to gelling...lets not undercut them like we did with Brandt and Artest and Chandler and Curry...
we have bagged a couple of good players just moments before they went on to do great things. Lets not repeat that mistake again.

Go Bulls!

Yes, the Bullies looked inspired last night, but as of Jan. 28th, 2009, the L.A.C. are the worse team in the N.B.A. No Randolph or Kaman, and Baron just off the list, made for some nice opening fodder. Couple that with some embarrassing recent performances that have called for your coaches head, and you better play inspired ball.

Let's get a better perspective after Fridays game. The Kings are coming off a four game road trip (we all know what takes place after being in another bed for 7 days) and the Bulls have always had trouble stopping Kevin Martin. If they keep one man from hurting them and take advantage of 'tired legs' I'll feel a lot better about this, supposed, turnaround.

Not expecting a bonanza after the Suns, Rockets, Hornets or Mavs, but hey, just a decent effort would be a change. Now THAT would be a cause for inspiration.

Navarro excellent post! See you have to accentuate the positive. I am also enjoying college basketball! That Duke Wake Forrest game was the bomb last night! And I have enjoyed Illinois and Notre Dame! HAIR-N-GOH-TEE!!!! He's a tweener, but a great college player!

Next years draft is going to be full of talent. Bulls need to trade for some picks! I would get two of those centers! Big men coming out this year is going to make Measley look like a scooby snack! We can get us a two guard this year also.

Bulls show nuff need to play Sefalosha more. Was threading the needle yesterday. How can Vinny miss this guy when he is one of the top defenders and is 6'7. I'm starting Thabo if Gordon is not out there.

Whoa AV, what happened to you all of a sudden? Thanks for the Bulls’ current scouting report. Most of what you said was pretty much spot on, but I’ll just add a few (ok, maybe more than a few) comments: 1. Rose’s overall defense needs to improve also. 2. Drew has pretty much max’d his ceiling as an NBA player, but he’s excellent trade value with an expiring contract. I like him, but he has no future here. 3. Be careful with Deng. He always seems to show flashes at times, but in the end, he still isn’t worth the contract that Paxson signed him up for. That being said though, I’ll admit he has played better as of late, but until he can improve that shooting range to 3 pt territory like at least Scottie Pippen did throughout his career, then I’ll always call him overpaid. 4. Gordon can help score for any team in the regular season, but come playoff time when defenses get tighter, Gordon will be shut down more often than not. I say ship him out on a trade if you can or just wait till his contract expires this season. 5. Nocioni’s just not an every game starter, period, but a valuable player off the bench. He has to figure out a way to work the refs better. The complaining hurts the team more than it helps. Same goes with Hinrich. 6. Glad to see someone else finally giving some props to Noah! He’s really better and more skilled than most people think, but you just have to be patient with him and let him grow with experience. He’s only been in the league 1 ½ seasons. He’ll never be a star, but can develop into a nice role player with hustle and energy. The immaturity will eventually go away with time. Too many short fuses from fans and too many judge him by appearance alone. 7. Probably the only one I disagree with AV is Thabo. I think he was severely misevaluated by Paxson when he TRADED UP to draft him. His outside shot is not consistent; still prone to too many turnovers and he’s NOT a lockdown defender like Bruce Bowen or even like Trenton Hassell was. I watch all Bulls games win or lose, and trust me, Thabo has had opportunities. Until he focuses on strength training, he’ll always be taken to school by the elite 2-guards of the league, especially those who can post well. He’s not a bum of a player, but not a lottery talent where he was basically drafted at. 8. Hinrich was Paxson’s first bad contract signing and has since haunted him since. If the Bulls are ever to clear up cap space to become a major player in the 2010 free agency sweepstakes, Hinrich also has to be moved somehow. 9. Tyrus is slowly getting better, but no doubt, he’s a slow developer, but potential is immense. It would be a mistake to give up on him already at this point. 10. If Gray can somehow gain the work ethic like Pau Gasol’s little brother, Marc Gasol, he could be a solid player off the bench every night. What Gray needs is a leader on the team who can push him night in and night out like Jordan did with Luc Longley. The Bulls don’t have that kind of leader on the roster right now obviously. 11. Larry Hughes – I actually don’t hate him as much as many fans do, but that contract just has to be moved somehow.

As for the Bulls road trip, I knew they weren’t going to lose all the games because that’s the tease that they are like my stripper girlfriend, but even if they did, Vinny is not going anywhere. The talk about Vinny on the hot seat is not even worth the discussion. Guys, he was the 3rd choice in the Bulls’ carousel coaching search last Summer and they (Pax and Reinsdorf) knew exactly what they were getting from him as a coach with no head coachng experience taking over a team with a bunch of holes. That is why he was only signed for a 2-year contract. He’s not going to get fired this season, period. Given the history behind the coach hiring last Summer, it would be an embarrassing move for the organization and it wouldn’t make sense. Paxson’s job is the one on the line. He knows it and that’s why he went public about it and blamed himself. Unless moves are made to the roster by the trade deadline and if the Bulls fail to make the playoffs again this season, there will be too much public and media pressure for Paxson to keep his job after the season. I know he’s Reinsdorf’s pet, but he let Krause go under similar circumstances even though he supposedly only “resigned”. Paxson will likely do the same.

AN --

So is that the bottom 40 percent of the NBA teams or the top 40 percent? I'm guessing the bottom 40 percent.

So is that what we aspire to become? Aren't we already there?

I see a sub-.500 team not for just this year, but for the next few years with this roster of "talent."

Most NBA games are boring for about the first 3.5 quarters. Then the teams finally wake up and play for a win in the last 6 minutes. The Bulls are horrible at closing out games because they lack a closer.

Outside of Rose, there is no one on this team that can consistently create a shot or go to the hole with the game on the line.

Rose ain't enough.
Thomas ain't there.
Gordon can't create his shot.
Deng is too soft.
Noce can't create his shot.

The Bulls are dominated by role players. No one on their team scares anyone (unless it's one of the existing bottom feeders). Sure, they can get "up" for games against the Celtics and the Lakers, but they can't maintain that level of play -- even against the bottom feeders (with the rare exception of the vaunted Clippers).

Last year this team sucked so they fired their coach.

This year, with pretty much the same talent, they suck again.

You may see talent -- but the NBA is a pricey league and waiting 4 years for someone to develop is too long.

The Bulls are filled with too many "projects" on their team. Until they quit coddling them or start drafting players instead of projects, the Bulls will continue to be a sub-.500 team with limited talent.

Edgar, I'm gonna tell you something about Thabo; while he may have trouble with some of the elite, he also has a tremendous amount of ALL-AROUND ability. Any good offensive player has an advantage over the 'D', be it Bowen, Hassell or Superglue. He's still a damn good defender on a defensively challenged team. Thabos' absence is a result of the abundant guard system. One thing I've noticed about Thabo is his lack of confidence after a long stretch on the bench. Some players can just come in after a few games saddled and hit the flow with no problem. These are usually veterans or 'shooters' (the guys with scorers mentality who have never seen a shot they didn't like). His minutes a game has dropped quite a bit but I remember when he played extensive minutes and he didn't disappoint. With a lack of solid all-around players on a team,I just feel is worth warrants his spot.

P.S. Who's AV?

Seedy you are right to an extent. For me, a fan since the Dave Corzine days, its all about the EFFORT. I feel that the Bulls need a coach that will get the players to give us a CHICAGOAN effort. If they don't win then so be it, but make every team RESPECT us, and demand that those talented teams give us their VERY best every night or go home with a loss. See that used to be what was so good about the NBA. Teams came with it for 48 minutes and the fans were treated to the very best the NBA had to offer.

Teams with stars are supposed to say "dag, we got the Bulls!!! I hate those guys!!! I don't feel like doing all that running! Who do we have next?" And then either we beat their lazy behinds with hustle, defense, and execution or they would bring their "A" game and we have a barn burner. But the Bulls don't have a coach that can get that effort out of the team yet. I thought Vinny would come in with some fresh ideas and an open court offense with a good point guard to stir the mix. But unfortunately that hasn't transpired, but the opposite.

I think we need a coach that veterans respect, until we can get a star either at the 2 guard or the Center position.

Yes Seedy, that would be the bottom 40%. One thing I would like to point out is the use of the term 'create a shot'. While I believe Rose, Deng and Noc are the most probable, you're right, it's not consistent. What I can't understand is why we don't create shots for someone else. Why does it always have to be one on one. Break the damn defense down and have faith in the open man. you're not gonna get that call at the end of a game anyway, so dish. Rose, Gordon, Deng, Noc, they all have the ability to create an opening, leading to a possible double team and BAM, hit the open man. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the Bulls move the ball to create shots in the early stages of the game and look REAL GOOD doing it, but like everything else in the tough N.B.A. it's very hard to sustain, but if you don't have the focus or coaching to do it for a mere 2-4 minutes at the end of a close game you're going to be .400 instead of .600. That, and the fact our defense is weak, makes this season frustrating to this point. I could live with the fact our talent level is not all that, but even sixth graders, who have never played the game, could be taught to play defense.

I don't remember the year but Lenny Wilkins had the Cleveland Cavaliers under his wing, and I swear, from the top down, their talent level was not very good. All he did was get the most out of every individual, play tough defense, and keep the games in the eighties, the only chance his team had, but damned if they weren't competitive in almost every game.

It can be done. Just look good doin' it.

For now that's all we can look forward to, 'cause I don't see the bank opening any time soon.

But that’s the thing, ANav (sorry, don’t know where ‘AV’ came from but I don’t proofread my posts – will Ref Tony work? hehe):

I agree with you on his all-around ability, but that can also be the problem as well… he doesn’t really specialize in one area! Yes, I know even the best NBA defenders get burned by the elites, but Thabo is not an “in-your-face” lockdown defender. I’m aware he has sneaky quick hands with a nice wingspan on the steals and to get in someone’s face and alter or even block a shot, but he gets bullied against the more physical 2-guards of the league and he can’t handle the ultra quick guards because really, his lateral side-to-side movement/technique on defense is really not all that very good. You know why? He really needs to work on whatever his workout regimen is because he’s really not all that athletic or explosive that I had hoped he would be when we drafted him. As a matter of fact, that’s another big issue I have with this Bulls team is that whoever the strength and conditioning coach of this team is (I believe it’s Fred Tedeschi or Eric Helland, but not 100% sure), I think that the team is VERY weak in overall strength and stamina. Outside of maybe Derrick Rose and Ben Gordon, who else on the team would you really classify as a workout warrior? Tyrus Thomas has shown some improvement in that area of strength, but he’s not there yet and I bet no one else can really name anyone else on the Bulls who you could say blends real well with skill and athleticism. That’s a problem because I know in the Jordan years, Tim Grover was the man who helped carve that team into great basketball shape.

And lastly, Anthony, you pointed out very well about Thabo’s lack of confidence and you’re right, he basically crumbles under pressure or under heavy adversity. If you’re going to be the future star sidekick for Derrick Rose at the guard position, then you can’t have these mental lapses. Anthony, I don’t have to be cliché, but you already know that much of this game is mental as it is physical talent alone. Dude, I’ll remind again, Thabo was basically a lottery pick that we TRADED UP for and gave up cash (the Bulls are already cash conscious enough as it is) and a 2nd round pick just to move up 3 draft spots to get Thabo. As a sports organization, you have to nail these luxury draft picks when given the opportunity. You can’t be a 50/50 hit, you have to at least nail 75% of those picks when you get them. Paxson clearly hasn’t done it going back to the Gordon/Deng draft and just got lucky with Rose. It makes me cringe when instead of Thabo, we could have drafted Ronnie Brewer of the Jazz as our defensive specialist or Rajon Rondo in that same 2006 draft after Thabo! I liked both Brewer and Rondo coming out of College. Anyway, I’m with you though, Anthony. I’m not saying get rid of Thabo. He certainly has a spot on this roster in my book, but when his rookie contract is up, he better not be commanding buko bucks like Ben Gordon did/will be because he’s just not good enough.

We beat the snot out of a depleated Clippers team, but WE ARE SUPPOSED to win those kinds of games. And we are supposed to beat the Kings tonight. And we are supposed to COMPETE with the good teams and push the elite teams. We should win almost all the below 500 games, and at least 50% of the 500 teams. And every now and then we should surprise and upset an elite team. Because we are supposed to be a traditional quality disciplined franchise. AND THAT IS WHY KOBE WANTED TO COME HERE.

I didn't think we would win a game on this trip because of our coaching staff and how they have prepared this team. I know a lot of people in the media and the Bull's coaches and players are saying "we don't have the talent to assume we are going to beat any team", but that is NOT what they should be saying publicly or privately. Scott Skiles used to make those kinds of comments also, and he was WRONG. Bulls have players good enough to beat the below 500 teams, and we as the BULLS franchise are supposed to have the philosphy for success. Those are: hard nosed defense, hustle, offensive execution, heart and pride. Having the players minds right, the plays down, the defensive assignments, game plan and informative film sessions all come down to COACHING. Vinny is supposed to be able to look at the opposition and find weaknesses, and EVERY team has them. And when he was hired, PAX was supposed to walk him through what it means to be in Chicago. Every player is supposed to know that before suiting up in that white, black and red. We have lost sight of that. And that should NEVER happen when PAX is there.

Navarro, Culzie, Edgar, Seedy...do you all remember when Scottie first arrived in Chicago??? Gangly, thin and shy as a deer. Bulls took that guy and rounded him into the best defender in the game and one of the best all around players ever. Thabo Sefaloosha needs that kind of makeover. He is not Scottie, but in today's league, he should be effective. The Bulls used to take ordinary players and make them better. EVEN MJ - was made BETTER.

Good Post Keith.

True with all the comments, even the MJ comment. Of course the whole staff left with Phil to LA.

Thabo is great at playing the passing lane and getting steals. He is effective at man to man but I agree he is not a lockdown defender yet. He needs to get stronger first. He has potential to be a Bowen or Battier who can play defense and hit the open three. His shot is way too streaky.

He was the 15th pick, so technically not a lottery pick. He should have been a second rounder. Ronnie Brewer is a better defender and already scoring double figures. Funny enough, people passed him up because people thought his jumper was messed up.

The bulls were good when they won 49 47 those are the wins they need if they want to get a good sed in the playoffs i think that the bulls should trade Hinrich to try to get Rondo from boston Nelson from Orlando Caleron from Toronto or Deron williams from utah. The bulls need a strong big man they need to trade Noah for Robin lopez even though hes not doing that well is because he dosent get a lot of playing time because of shaq Lopez is bigger stronger and i got to say better then noah the bulls need to trade noah hinrich and tryus

So what’s really your point then, Keith? Are you blaming the coaches, the players or Paxson? I can’t tell exactly. You really think that Vinny, Bernie and Del don’t already know what they’re supposed to do regarding game plan, film sessions, defense assignments, preaching effort, focus, hustle etc. and all that? We’re talking 3 guys here with legitimate NBA experience on the floor, in the front office and head coaching and you think they’re just clueless and don’t know the game? That’s pretty bold of you as a fan, Keith. How do you know for sure that these players haven’t been preached all that already? For me, I stick with reality and common sense… PaxDorf gave Vinny an almost impossible task of fixing a team full of too many guards without an impact inside presence on the offensive and defensive side. I challenge any 1st year head coach in the NBA today to take over this team under the circumstances (plus the injuries to Hinrich, Deng and Gooden along with the Hughes media distractions) and see if they would have made a difference. While I may criticize Vinny’s coaching moves during games at times, it is just unfair to evaluate him in just over half a season.
I said this last year already around the time when Skiles was fired. You can only do so much with a team full of head cases, but in this case, you have to place the blame first on the players, specifically the original core of the team who were drafted in the beginning of the John Paxson era. Guys like Deng, Gordon, Hinrich, Duhon, etc. – they failed to take the team to the next level in the playoffs and got hung up selfishly on either playing for a big contract or trying to justify getting rewarded with big contract. That mentality took away all that made them a good team full of energy, teamwork and hustle. Again, you indirectly blame Scott Skiles yet he is the one guy in the post Jordan era who coached this Bulls team to 3 playoff appearances in this decade. We’ve been through that argument already so I’m not going down that path again. No matter what anyone says, you’re always going to knock the little guy, but for me, it’s the players first, especially the original core, and then John Paxson for drafting them in the first place. You can’t “fire” players and you can’t “cancel” NBA contracts, so that leaves Paxson as my main scapegoat for now. Look, it’s not that the guys lack talent, they have “talent” to play this game or else they wouldn’t be in the NBA at all, but it’s more the mental part of the game that they cannot seem to conquer and the lack of a true leader on the floor to help guide the team over the hump. That was supposed to be Ben Wallace, but he failed and fell into the money trap. Since then, no one from within has stepped it up. Vinny was the 3rd choice for that job last Summer because he was cheapest guy available. Reinsdorf didn’t want to pony up more cash, so this is what you’re gonna get, half-a*s results and half-a*s efficiency due to lack of experience. Effort and enthusiasm be damned.

As for Scottie, let me clarify, Keith… The “Bulls” didn’t round him into one of the best defenders and one of the best all-around players in the game, MICHAEL JORDAN did. Not Phil Jackson, not Jim Cleamons, Johnny Bach or even Red Kerr from the booth, that was mostly MICHAEL JORDAN. Jordan himself was already a special NBA player from day 1 as a rookie. He wasn’t “made” better, he became great and legendary through yes, some solid coaching, but mostly through EXPERIENCE and GROWTH. Just my opinion, Keith. Take it for what it’s worth because we can probably go back and forth on this, but if given the chance, I still think MJ and his crew still would have won the Championships under Doug Collins, but we’ll never know. The “burned out” theories will forever be an endless debate.

Sorry Smoove, when it comes to NBA basketball and Bulls trivia, I'm like a human computer. Thabo was drafted at #13 in the 2006 NBA Draft via a trade with Philadelphia from slot #16. The NBA lottery consists of picks #1 to #13. The Bulls had a chance to draft Ronnie Brewer and Rajon Rondo. Feel free to check it out.

http://www.nba.com/draft2006/

Edgar, apparently JERRY REINSDORF seems to agree with me. I guess he and I must have the same eyeglass prescription. Because we both see a team with talent that is NOT being coached properly. Could it be that it appears that way because....we both happen to know the REAL thing when we see it???

Skiles must be your boy or something. Look, Chris Duhon was on the squad last year wasn't he??? Stayed in Skile's dog house. How's that working out??? Duhon was NOT the problem. But getting the best out of him WAS the problem. I question ANYONE that has a problem coaching a DUKE player. Skiles is a quick fix coach. He is good to get the ship righted, but he is not a keeper. All of that drill seargant stuff gets stale quickly, especially when the player discovers that you don't know what you are doing. And Doug Collins had another team to coach just like Skiles has now. They are what they are, but neither is Phil Jackson or Pat Riley or Gregg Popovich.

And that brings me back to Vin-naaaaye. Paxson made a huge mistake hiring a guy that was not seasoned. THANK GOD for that short contract. I don't think Dantoni was our guy defensively, but he was better than Vinny. He was a seasoned coach that the team needed to direct them to the next level. Sometimes a young guy works because he comes in with fresh revolutionary ideas. So far, Vinny is not producing such.

Michael Jordan was the best player to ever lace them up, but he couldn't round a piece of clay! He was a weapon of mass destruction that Phil used skillfully. In FACT, Scottie rounded MIKE into the TEAMMATE that eventually made him great. Its no secret who the floor general of the Bulls was. Chuck Daley focussed his attack on #33, who he called the key to the Bulls success, and he was right. Scottie and Mike played for different franchises in the playoffs, but they were not successful. They were intrical parts of a great ORGANIZATION anchored by Reinsdorf and Krause. Krause once arrogantly stated that organizations win championships, and then he dismantled the team in order to prove it. He found out how important the other parts of the formula was.

The league is weak because its filled with kids and poor coaches. The winning teams are anchored by seasoned players (MEN not boys) and good coaching. And age has nothing to do with good coaching, but if you stick around long enough...you learn in most cases.

Wow Keith, I almost dropped my jaw reading your post and practically using Reinsdorf to support your argument in a debate. And let me remind you who it was who HIRED your real thing of a no experienced head coach in the first place? Yeah, I guess Reinsdorf sure knows about finding great coaches. Forget talent and experience, get the cheapest guy available first and let him learn on the job!

And no, I never once said Skiles was "my boy". I just gave him props for coaching the original misfit core of the Bulls to 3 straight playoffs. Even I can admit that he's not the right coach for this current roster as long as most of the "orginal core" is intact. You say he's a "quick fix" coach, then fine, at least that's a heckuva lot better than a head coach who has no clue at all!

And talk about a damaging statement about MJ... he couldn't round a piece of clay?? Scottie round Mike into being a good teammate?? I'll tell you one thing, Keith, you're in the deep MINORITY with those comments. I'm not even going to argue with you any further on it. Apparently you change your mind about coaches and players faster than a chameleon changes its colors because when it comes to Vinny and Pax, you talk in circles. Just last week you told us that both didn't deserve to be fired at all and now after like 2 or 3 games since that comment, you're saying that Vinny can't coach worth a lick and now should be fired. I was hoping this was all just a reaction of frustration on your side after a string of Bulls losses, but you're just as brainwashed from Reinsdorf's Comcast interview as the rest of the minimal Reinsdorf supporters out there. Obviously you have your opinion and I respect them for the most part, but I'm just gonna have to disagree with you about YOUR HOMEBOYS, Reinsdorf and his puppet Pax.

Keith, Scotty came into the league as an all around player. He improved because of the man that ran next to him. You learn things from excellent players as much as coaches. Don't confuse shy with soft spoken. You don't grow up with eleven brothers and sisters with shy tendencies. He was just Southern Arkansas soft spoken but a beast of an athlete that just needed time away from a small town and small college life. That man played 'LITTLE' as well as he played 'BIG' and why he didn't play more than Brad 'are u kidding me' Sellers early on is beyond me. Other than his free throw shooting, or lack thereof, he was tough.

Thabos' foot speed is weird. I don't see a burst from that guy, though his frame looks capable. This kid needs serious work on speed drills if he wants to take the next step. He's got the Krause loved long arms and lankiness, but not the Pippen explosiveness. I like the kid. I just hope somebody notices the weakness and works with him.

Reinsdorf 'emits air'!

Edgar I wish I had all the answers, but I simply don't. Mine is just an opinion based on what's in front of me at the time. I share my opinions in the proper forum and I try my best not to be adversarial with the other posters who I have come to respect a whole lot - present company included. Smile.

I was willing to give Vinny a chance because of what I thought was a new bright young coach from a good organization with a possibly revolutionary offense and an eye for scouting talent. I was HOPEFUL and willing to give the guy a chance. I CHANGED my opinion of Vinny based on the results of our recent homestand and that exclamation point in Minnesota. The team is now playing better and that seems to indicate that he has reached them. I hope he gets them to playing competitive ball. Not above their heads, but within their talents, efforts and hearts. I don't think that is too much to ask. We were on our way to being like Sacramento was last night, and that is UNACCEPTABLE.

Bulls we cannot survive with BOTH PAX and VINNY performing ineptly. I still think Paxson deserves more time. He still has to make that defining trade and then it will be time to address his situation, but as far as the picks are concerned - I agree with Jerry, the guy has given it his best. Its the TRADES or lack thereof that have plagued Paxson. Look at his counterpart in Phoenix. Steve Kerr was left for dead after that Shaq trade and look at him now. You have to roll the dice. And Steve pulled that trigger again. Pax has got to get this young coach some more talent and ship out Larry Hughes. Thats how Vinny will have a chance. And if Vinny can't deliver after that...deal with him and get a seasoned coach.

Keith, I love that you said Doug Collins was no Phil Jackson.

Thats gotta just eat that dude up every single day of his life!!!

LOL

Culzie, now while I will admit Doug was no Phil, that only pertained to basketball genious. Doug was one of my favorite coaches because he "got it". He understood Bulls basketball and wore it on his sleeve. He also was IMHO a good father and family man. He was rich where it counts most with me. The reality is Doug had Phil right there on the bench with him that whole time, yet he was designing plays like "give the ball to Michael...", (which was actually one of my favorite interviews in all of Bulls lore, but telling of Doug's weakness as a coach). Phil is a hall of famer, but Doug is a dyed-in-the-wool BULL and family man. Doug has a relationship with Jerry, Phil had a business relationship.

Keith...I know you give an honest take on everything. You never have to qualify it, we know were gonna always get it.

However, this wouldnt be the first time, I will just let you believe in your superstitious beliefs.

I will say this, if you think any college or NBA coach is a family first man...is to not understand the nature of professional coaching. This is one of the biggest reasons why I DIDNT go into Coaching for a career.

You dont get to have a family, and if you do, they are certianly not your main committment.

The only former Bulls Coach i can honestly say put family first was Cartwright....and thats sadly why he probably lost his job.

Culzie that is a fair assessment. I just remember Doug Collins and his son. I may have been totally wrong, but publicly the man appeared to really care about his son a great deal. I think he treated Chris like Dusty treated his son. Yes the game was important, but not so important that you could not bring your family to share it with you. Outside of basketball, Doug was known for that. And Phil...was known for getting high, writing books and having relations with the boss's daughter. Never knew that about ole Cartwright. I was pulling for him.

You are right about the commitment. Having coached on a small level, I understand the commitment. Thats why I stopped and went home. And that was a REQUEST from the wife. Man I had uniforms and whistles and time clocks and schedules and all kinds of stuff in my van. I was picking up everyone and calling parents for everything. I was always broke and tired, but that was one of the most memorable times of my life. My wife was expecting when I stopped.