Why do I get the sense Vinny Del Negro isn't long for the Bulls?
I'm not saying he's going to be fired anytime soon. I'm not saying he's going to be fired at all.
But at the very least, I'm getting the impression that the rookie head coach has a tenuous grip on his team. From reports that he fined Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah and Larry Hughes for violating team rules to a story that Del Negro had to address players treating him disrespectfully, I get the impression a crossroads may be approaching.
I've seen a coach lose a locker room, and that helped lead to Tim Floyd's departure from the Bulls.
Del Negro wasn't hired to make the playoffs (neither was Floyd). He was hired to mentor Derrick Rose, and from what I understand, that relationship is solid and Rose likes his coach. Does that sound ridiculous, that it matters if a 20-year-old rookie likes his coach? If he didn't, my money would be on Del Negro being jettisoned before the end of the season.
But as long as Rose continues to flourish and that relationship is solid, Del Negro's immediate future would seem secure.
But John Paxson is in a tough situation. He has to get Larry Hughes out of there (and yes, this is the latest installment in my "Larry Hughes Bashing Tour." ) Hughes continues to go public with his unhappiness over playing time.
This shouldn't shock anyone. He was vocally unhappy with playing time on a Cleveland team that reached the Finals. This is just confirmation that the perception created of him at that point wasn't unwarranted.
It doesn't help that this is not a good team. The Bulls have lost three straight and seven of their last 10. If a guy is going to chirp about playing time when his team wins, he can be a real distraction when the team is losing.
Del Negro apparently has addressed the problems with discipline, and I'm sure he has Paxson's confidence and backing. But he'll also need Pax's help in moving out the bad eggs. And with a publicly unhappy Hughes scheduled to make over $26M the next two seasons, that is going to be one tough guy to move.
Guys like Hughes are traded for bad contracts and problem players on other teams. That's how he got here in the first place in a trade for Ben Wallace. So there's no easy solution.
If Hughes becomes even more of a distraction when Kirk Hinrich comes back and takes more time away from him, Paxson may have to consider some tough choices such as pulling a Stephon Marbury or Tim Thomas and distancing Hughes from the team.
Hughes isn't the only problem. Joakim Noah looks to be a bust of a No. 9 pick, and Luol Deng and Tyrus Thomas aren't giving me the impression they're going to get any better.
That leaves Rose, and the Bulls can thank the lottery gods for that lucky bounce.
Paxson now has to do what Jerry Krause once did with Michael Jordan, revamp the roster and create a supporting cast. Easier said than done. And in the meantime, things may get worse before they get better.
The Bulls take on some easy foes this week, although that didn't mean anything against the Timberwolves, but after that it's going to get much harder.
We'll see how strong a grip Del Negro has on his team. I can't imagine another coaching change being made during the season, but I could see a worst-case scenario leading to a new head coach next season.
Unless things change - in a hurry.
Roman, ask these players every once in a while do they feel fortunate to still play a child's game for millions of dollars. If the response is negative or you or any sports columnist feel intimidated asking the question, it doesn't matter what coach is here. These are a bunch of wusses who complain instead of playing fundamental basketball.
Later on there will be posters speaking about talking down to players but for millions of dollars I believe I can take constructive criticism and shut my mouth and play the game when asked to do so. There might be nights it is not so constructive but if I am a mature adult man, I know how to let it roll off of me.
But then again we did have Scottie Pippen meltdown - refuse to re-enter the game because he thought he should get the ball for the last shot instead of another player.
I am glad television is going digital and still have not bought a HDTV or used the discount cards for the converter box. Exactly what the hell is good on T.V. nowadays anyway?
What's left is a few game shows like Super Password, Deal or No Deal and the ever-lasting Wheel-Of-Fortune....lol....
If none of these bratty boys never play again, I surely will not missed them, how can I? They never done anything! Matter of fact I don't even hear them when they whine. So Vinny, use the players who are willing to give it their all and let the other knuckleheads rot at the end of the bench. I just don't give a damn about grown men crying about minutes.
John Paxson you know what championships are, so find other players and the hell with the crybabies!
Time to start all over. Pax and Del Negro both need to go.
I sure hope for everyone's sake that there is a master plan. Paxson must be instructing Vinnie on playing time, because if we arent trying to evaluate talent and shop certain players, then we have no excuse. They better turn it around soon and establish a rotation and playing style. We are about to get 3/5 of an NBA starting line up back from injury, and something better give. Either a big trade, or some winning trends better begin soon, or i would base all playing time on effort. Lose every game if we have to, but at least compete. I would rather see Rose, Simmons, and 3 unknown D league guys giving effort, than the current team of selfish stat watchers, w/ their collective sense of entitlement. Not only could Jordan take anyone of them one on one right now, but he could also whoop their A__. I cant wait to have a bull who will tell his teammates, "we are good enough to win w/ this talent, if you F___ this up, you will be dealing w/ me" MJ actually told Rodman that before he joined the Bulls, and as tough as Rodman was, he knew MJ meant it and would follow through. Now granted there will never be another Michael, but the bulls need someone who cares that much about winning. Maybe we should hire Oakley as a "big man" coach. Let him get in some of these guys grills.
Bottom line, the Bulls get one more month of my patience, then I'll be hoping for losses and praying to the ping pong ball gods. Hey Orlando hit 'em back to back.......
The Bulls..as well as the NBA...The Big Who Cares
Too Many Teams/Too Little Talent
Boring Sidney..Boring, Boring, Boring
i agree, jeff.
with the exception of the gift lottery ball that afforded us the chance to draft rose, pax has continually busted on his draft picks.
this team has without question the least talented front court in basketball and some of the worst contracts in the nba (deng, hughes) which will make swinging a deal a tall task.
adios, jon. thanks for the three in phoenix. make sure you save a seat at the bar for jerry angelo, he'll be joining you shortly.
I am still trying to figure out why the bulls did not pull off the trade for Kevin Garnett. Nothing personal against Ben Gorden but he will never be able to defend in a league where height and length are so important. Get rid of him while he still has some value. Looks like there may be some truth to the criticism that Pax may be deficient in the area of the draft also. I think Pax needs to become a little more creative in making personnel moves.
Vinny looks like a deer in headlights. And fining grown men for eating before a game in a locker is bush. But I agree with Jeff, get rid of Paxson. The love affair is over. His draft picks sucks and so does his trades. Forget the jump shot he made 50 years ago.
Back to Vinny, the other night against the Wolves Hughes was shooting every time he got the ball. Driving the lane against 3 guys and he stayed in the game. When Thomas has a very good game he sits for the next 2 games. And so on. I'd rather have Scott back.
Get rid of them all except Rose!
There is no room in a professional sports league for disrespectful punks.
I wonder how much of it is reverse racism? Yeah i said it.
I remember when I started new on a team where I was the only white guy, and for the first two weeks, i was the butt of all the jokes, the snickers, the whispers, the code language that they thought i didnt understand...but did....and to top it off, they tried to freeze me out in practice.
Well, needless to say, that all came to an abrupt head and I asserted myself and basically just had to step up or get chewed up.
I ended the season 24 pts and 12 rbs a game and led all of College in 3 pts % 71/114 threes.
This team looks even worse than last years mess.
Outside of Rose they have nothing worth watching anymore.
This all comes down to Paxson.
You can not even credit him for drafting Rose because that was a gift.
He fired Skiles and then went from Jim "Belushi” Boylan to Vinny "Barbarino" Del Negro. They had the coach that they needed but Pax caved in to the crybabies on the team and now we have this.
He drafted Kirk Hinrich while passing on Josh Howard (a small forward who is averaging 18 ppg. (Just in case Luol Deng wants to see what that looks like)
He overpaid for the overrated slug Ben Wallace and to rid the team of that cancer he had to take on another one in Larry Hughes.
Hughes is a waste of the uniform that he reluctantly wears every night. Get rid of this jerk now.
He picked the guaranteed to fail in the NBA clown Joakim Noah with the number 9 pick in the draft when he had 3rd round talent written all over him. God this was the last player that I wanted on this team and damned if he did not go right out and draft him.
Noah is exactly what I expected from him coming out of college.
Another busted pick.
He drafts LaMarcus Aldridge and then trades him for Tyrus Thomas which is becoming one of the top three worst draft moves in Bulls history.
Thomas is never going to live up to his physical talent and he would have to work really really hard just to be David Greenwood.
Pax holds his breath on any trades that could have brought in players such as Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett or Poa Gasol just to cling to his "core" players who he later could not resign and then watch their value plummet as fast as their contributions to the team.
Gordon is still Gordon and believe it or not they would actually be even worse off if they did not have him here this year since no one other than Rose can score to save their life.
Deng seems to be a shadow of the player that he was or was supposed to become.
This is not the mess that Paxson inherited from Jerry Krause.
This is his team and everything about it is his making and it stinks.
How does John Paxson get to keep his job with this track record?
What's with the race card play...what does that have to do with anything. There are plenty of white coaches that are well respected by all players, black or white. So don't start that.
Del Negro is a crummy coach with crummy substitutions and he hasn't done much in the way of player development. Every other team has a big man coach. Ewing in Orlando, Kareem in LA, etc...We have nothing.
This team is terrible and will be for some time. They are still my squad and I'm gonna ride out with them but the Bulls are hard to
Look, I admit that if the NBA simply evaporated into thin air, I'd probably celebrate. Granted, I'm not a really a fan of the game to begin with, but to me, the NBA also epitomizes virtually all of what's wrong with sports today.
At best, I'm a "fair weather Bulls fan." I did go crazy during the Jordan years. However, since then, the team has been one of the biggest jokes in sport--barring one decent season--which is really something when one considers they've been in the same town as the Blackhawks over that time (also having one decent season during that time until last year). Nevertheless, unlike the Sox, Hawks and Bears, I need to have absolutely nothing to do with my life for two hours to sit down and watch a Bulls game even though I love Derrick Rose's talent. If my wife caught me watching ANY NBA GAME, she's been advised that that would be prime time for her to ask me to do ANYTHING on my "honeydo list." I would immediately jump up like a freshly toasted slice of bread. The same could not be said for my other three Chicago teams.
Here's what I really don't understand, why doesn't Jerry Reinsdorf sell this team? He's already admitted that his one Sox ring is worth more than all six of his Bulls rings! Why put up with the aggravation? It makes no sense to me. You can even hear the lack of enthusiasm in his voice when someone talks Bulls with him versus any dialogue about the Sox. Why Jerry? Are you deep down some kind of masochist? Still, a passionate fan of the game and deep--pocket guy like the Dallas Mavs owner would make sure that things were done to get some of the best people in place. Perhaps it takes someone like myself to stand apart from it in order to see the obvious. Jerry, sell the team to someone filthy rich and truly cares! I really don't care all that much, but for crying out loud, it doesn't have to be this way here in a world class city like Chicago! The sports ownership in this city has and still can defy probability and decent sense like you won't encounter anywhere.
I think I might have been all wrong about Scott Skiles.
I was never a big fan. And I didn't like his demeanor any better than I like Lovie Smith's, but I have to hand it to the guy; ... he's no dummy.
I believe that Noah was the final straw for Scott. He saw what he had here, and he knew it was a losing hand. Not only was it a losing hand, it was so bad that the only intelligent move was to toss in his cards, and fold.
This fist full of jokers Paxon dealt him was never going to morph into Aces full over Kings, and he was sharp enough to figure out that you have to either play the hand that you're dealt, or step away from the table.
I wonder how Vinny likes the dealer.
It looks like the Clippers might be willing to let go of Chris Kaman and he is a hell of a lot better than any one of the stiffs that the Bulls have been playing at center.
Vinny may or may not be gone at season's end but more importantly there needs to be some roster changes. I am still reluctant to give up on Tyrus, he has had several quality games and then as pointed out earlier he's not on the floor the next couple games or he misses an 18 footer (agreeably not his strong suit) and at the next break he's sitting and not seen the rest o the game. On the other hand Hughes tosses up consecutive bricks from beyond the arc with 18 left on the shot clock killing a rally and he's rght back in there for his next rotation. I'm still trying to figure out how Noah even got drafted let alone as a #9 pick. Aaron Gray has been playing well of late but he is a servicable back-up center not a starter. With the return of Gooden tonight who's minutes are going to be affected, Tyrus' or Noah's?
Considering Vinny's total lack of coaching experience I don't feel he's done badly to this point with the exception of some minute distribution issues. This team has won some games they were expected to lose and lost some they were expected to win but if those games were in the column they were expected to be in maybe at best they would be 16-18 instead of 16-20.
Vinny only signed a 2-year contract and I expect him to at least remain as Bulls Head Coach for at least 2 seasons. How can anyone expect a rookie head coach with zero head coaching experience to completely turn around a rebuilding team, led by a rookie point guard, in just 1 season? The holes on the roster were on the table way before even the season started… heck, even before Coach Vinny was hired! It’s not a surprise that the Bulls needed a big man in the middle and that they had too many guards on the roster. I may not be sold on Vinny as head coach yet, but even I realize that he was dealt an unfair hand with this roster going into the season, never mind the fact that he’s had to deal with key injuries lately to Gooden and Deng. Can you imagine the precedent set if the Bulls fire another head coach, albeit a rookie head coach, in only less than 1 season? It will demonstrate instability within the organization that can be very embarrassing and damaging to a team. I’m pretty sure PaxDorf are smart enough to see that.
Bottom line, John Paxson will be or should be the man on the hot seat if changes are not made and another season falls apart. In this case, I believe Paxson will be the man fired first before Vinny. The only way Vinny is not head coach next season is if he resigns from head coach himself. It wouldn’t even be out of the realm of possibility that Paxson gets fired and then Vinny takes over the GM role given his experience, not necessarily as full time GM, but experience in a similar role while he was at Phoenix and then either Bickerstaff or Harris takes over as head coach.
It’s about that time where the Bulls might now have do a deal just to get a deal done and then cut their losses. There are just too many bad contracts on the team. That might not be the Reinsdorf way, sometimes you gotta lose the battle to win a war as they say…
That all being said however, I still think we should keep Tyrus Thomas and continue to develop him with this coaching staff and then get Kaman somehow, even if it means giving a little more than we want like a first round draft pick, but it's ultimately up to the Clippers if they want to take over bad contracts. The way we're going though, I probably wouldn't mind Blake Griffin as another lottery pick for the Bulls alongside Rose next season. Like I said before, I'm all for rebuilding if the Bulls themselves can admit that they're in a rebuilding phase, but I still have yet to hear that from them.
When they hired Vinny, I got the feeling he was a transition guy, which is fitting since the team is in a transition. He'll last through this year, maybe next year, but after that I would be shocked if Del negro is still around. What will probably happen is they hire a bigger named coach to help them in the 2010 Free Agent recruiting year.
Would like to see the Bulls package any, or all, of this group (Gray, Deng, Thomas, Noah) to Philly for Iguadala and Dalembert. You blogged a little over a year ago asking whether Gray should be the starting center? I don't think the cement boots are ever coming off. Noah is as discoordinated as anyone I've ever seen on a court. Thomas won't get it until he's somewhere else, and Deng has topped out. We need an established athlete and a REAL big man, so my vote goes out to a realistic trade.
P.S.; Vinny did well until the rash of injuries, and it seems clear Paxson is the true sore spot here.
His players are just not panning out, PERIOD.
As a long time Bulls fan, mid 70s to now this is a real poor example for a team. Deng and Gordon are two of the most marketable guys. We need to trade for a no. 2 and a no. 5. Those are the most blatant needs. Trading with the likes of Philly or even better a trade with the Suns for Amare would be the best. D Rose with Amare would give you an inside game along with a great young talent. Since Pax and Kerr are both former Bulls, maybe friends this would be a great move. If you have to throw in whoever you need to as well. Help I can't stand watching them right now. It's brutle!
Iguodala is the same as Deng, same contract, same position and they are both struggling a lot. Plus Iggy can't shoot a lick, I like him but he is no upgrade from Deng who is the better rebounder. Why trade for Iggy? Dalembert is having a horrible year himself.
Vinny is horrible, he was given a bad hand. But his smallball gimmick and poor substitution kill me. He needs to go. And I really hope Reinsdorf sells the team to somewho actually likes basketball...that would help
Edgar, I totally agree with you about Vinny possibly taking over as GM and Harris or Bickerstaff moving to head coach and also about holding on to Tyrus.
C. Smoove, tell me what kind of line up does could Vinny put on the floor to play big and score or defend? Sure he could have a big line up of Hughes, Thabo, Gooden, Noah and Gray but where's the scoring going to come from? All things considered, until gooden and Deng went down to injury the Bulls were hovering around the .500 mark, had the best circus road trip since the MJ era and were starting to look more cohesive as a team. Last night inspite of shooting less than 40% from the field and missing 3 free throws in the last 61 seconds (the only free throws missed all night..31-34) they managed to still pull out the win with 4 of five starters in double figures.
Anthony Nav, check out the new sports article today in the Sun-Times on an old friend and former classmate, Tom Kleinschmidt. Good stuff. I knew he was playing in Japan for some time, but I didn't know he was back at DePaul and even a part of Jerry Wainright's staff. Talk about loyal. Now if he can only help bring in recruits for that school...
Sorry Roman, I know this is not a Bulls-related post, but I had to mention and give some props to a former basketball idol of mine at my old high school...
culzie
I would guess you, like me, have played your share of mens league games - and probably many against predominantly black teams.
In my experience, it isn't much of a "code" - pretty much open talk about how "the white guy is on me" as I played on a team 4 black players. "White boy" is used pretty much any time you foul a black player or they score on you...
Over the years, players like Shaq and Barkley have brought up various stories about Nowitski or Nash and have brought up their color vs. their talent.
I can't say if the Bulls have this problem, but if the shoe was on the other foot...oh man
Vinnie Del Negro is not the Problem, he was dealt a bad hand, and the team is only as good as the record shows. Noah should have never been drafted, Paxsons Fault! Trading Aldridge 4 Tyrus Thomas, Paxsons Fault! Not making a move on KG, Jermaine Oneal, hey ppl, Boozer is unhappy, no Talks about trying to get him in town, Paxsons Fault! All the problems as you can see, are Paxsons fault, not Vinnie D. Keep Vinnie, lose Pax, as well as Tyrus Thomas, Noah, Hughes, maybe Gordon, and Heinrich, who everyone seems to like, but the guy is playin in the NBA, and can't lay the ball up with his left hand, or did none of you know that!!!
Edgar, thanx for the heads up. Nice article. I followed Tommy for much of his career. Actually my dad was the one who always grabbed the DePaul tickets to watch him. Blue collar hustler with the will to win, who loved the game. Not fast, but quick, and a tweener. My kind of player.
C Smoove? Iggy and Deng are the same? Deng a better rebounder? I'm not the type (seeing as I type with 2 fingers as it is) to throw stats on this blog, but Iguadala is a slight upgrade, and possibly more down the line. Dalemberts' numbers have gone down because of Brand. Neither is having a terrible year but a change just needs to be made, just for the sake of change. Nothing major, Paxson and Reinsdorf have cold hands, just something for a kickstart.
I'd take these two over our group in a heartbeat. Thomas may be the only one I have reservations about because his rebounding and shot alteration are phenominal, but the others have shown little.
For all the Larry Hughes haters out there; he's one of our best lanky defensive weapons, and streaky. This guy has too many upsides to give up on a team that lacks defensive intensity.
We're a team, no superstars, no go to guy, a team. The Bulls, when healthy, play as well as expected for the most part.
Anyone who has over the top expectations for this squad is in Wonderland.
Until the two daydreamers upstairs get off their hands and create some magic, we shall remain a middle of the pack team for some time.
In the meantime, I just want to see them play hard, cut the turnovers, and pray that a a piece of Michaels' statue breaks off and hits Jerry or Pax in the noggin.
Daydreaming is for grade school.
Larry Hughes doesn't play D, he just tries for steals. And if he doesn't get the steal, his man blows by him.
Iggy and Deng are the same player, Iggy is just more athletic/ better defender and Deng is the better shooter/rebounder. Both have averaged 19pts/8 rebounds...what's the difference?
When I talk about the BS smallball, I mean Nocioni playing center which Vinny has done numerous times. Why on earth would Nocioni be at center...that is beyond dumb, I don't even like Noc playing the 4 most of the time. Hughes playing SF...come on, that is ridiculous. I wish Bernie and Del would step in more and stop Vinny's nonsense
I don't get all this black/white stuff. I'm black and growing up a lot of my fave players were white(Rex Chapman, Dan Majerle, Drazen Petrovic). I've played in b-ball leagues since age 9 and always played with whites and blacks and I never looked down on the white players. I'm sure some people do but I've never seen it personally.
The problems that the bulls are having should not fall on Vinny Del Negro's shoulders. He inherited a roster filled with overpaid and underachieving talent in Luol Deng, Andres Nocioni, Larry Hughes, and Kirk Hinrich. He also inherited big men who can't play with Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, and Aaron Gray. Paxson should have traded for Gasol years ago, but thanks to his notorious indecision we are stuck with a mediocre team. If the Bulls have another disappointing season the blame should be on Paxson, not Vinny. The bulls have three players worth keeping, Derrick Rose, Drew Gooden, and Ben Gordon.
The problems that the bulls are having should not fall on Vinny Del Negro's shoulders. He inherited a roster filled with overpaid and underachieving talent in Luol Deng, Andres Nocioni, Larry Hughes, and Kirk Hinrich. He also inherited big men who can't play with Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, and Aaron Gray. Paxson should have traded for Gasol years ago, but thanks to his notorious indecision we are stuck with a mediocre team. If the Bulls have another disappointing season the blame should be on Paxson, not Vinny. The bulls have three players worth keeping, Derrick Rose, Drew Gooden, and Ben Gordon.
well, let me say this, it was a year at Jr. College, i had some of the best times with those dudes, they were a lot of them a year or two younger than me, so naturually upon first impressions...i was the Older, tall stiff white dude, ..but they quickly learned it i was the old stiff white dude...who could flush like crazy and pop mad three's and D-up any big man (that was my signature).
I didnt give an F, i knew the score, and just dealt with it, and ended up having a great season. These dudes were from Cabrini and some of the roughest parts of Chicago. I kid you not, my point gaurd, first day of practice flashed some crack rocks to me, and I was inches from the coach. He had them hidden behind the inside flap of his hat. It was a crazy year. Coached would smoke in the locker room, right before we would come in from Warming up in pre-game, and we would come back to locker room for one last going over the plays, and the coach had just lit up a cig.
By the end of the season, I had my buddy's out to my parents house for wweeks at a time to crash, for spring break or whatever....my one buddy, we helped him adopt his daughter.
Anyways...when in rome.
oh..best memory...was playing Horse, except the guy that finished with the least points, ...everyone else got to whip the ball at you once while you stood with your face against the wall...."Butts Up 21" I think it was we called it.
You know how we do!
Tommy Klienschmifdt was a god to us grade schoolers in Highland Park HS too Edgar!
Paxson learned from his Skiles experience - keep the contract short, and stock the bench with proven guys.
Vinny has to learn AN OFFENSE - anyone seen one lately? His offense is the Rose/Gordon show. Even Skiles had an offense (drive and kick) and that is really a disappointment with Vinny being from Phoenix. But the team's real problem is lack of DEFENSE - a long time CHICAGO staple. But since this is "Chicago", I thought the players and coaches like Pete Meyers would instill that in Vinny and we would have a one-two punch. I never envisioned us struggle so badly from both sides of the ball. Vinny is still green so I say its too early to hang anything else on him. AFTER next year the gloves come off, which actually makes Paxson smart with that contract.
Personnel problems are Paxson's fault, but Vinny needs to man up and flex. He needs to call folks out openely and DARE them to say to his FACE what they are whispering behind his back. And its nothing but some PUNKS thats talking like Hughes and Noah. Thomas has an attitude also, but he is giving effort. Vinny needs to meet with Pax and come down like Moses from mount morriah! And he can START by benching HUGHES and screaming in his face in front of everyone "NO I AM NOT PLAYING YOU!!! DON'T-ASK-ME-AGAIN!!! NOW GO AND WHISPER ABOUT THAT"!!! A lot of people lambasted me for sticking up for Wallace, but now you see why don't you. Cleveland is going to the finals where I believe they might meet either San Antonio or Houston. GM-ing is not easy and Paxson just got schooled. You never trade a big for a little. LaBron is cheesing like chester cheetah!
And Culzie you ARE Right - there is reverse racism and stereotyping in the game. Should not be, but its there. I wonder if there is any regular racism??? Don't even try and answer folks.
Keith, please clarify for me because I can't tell whether you're giving John Paxson a pass for this mess of a team or not. First you give credit to Pax and call him smart for keeping Vinny's contract short. Then you acknowledge personnel problems on the team and point that fault to Pax. And then you later say that "GM-ing" is not easy, but then say Pax got schooled! To sum it up then, what's your verdict? If changes are not made and this season ends with another non-playoff berth, who should get most of the blame and get fired, Paxson or Negro? It sounds to me that you'd give them both another chance through next season. Is that correct, Keith?
Keith
Enlighten us - how is the NBA racist against black people? That's what your "regular racism" line seems to imply...
Keith please don't try tot convince me that Ben Wallace is the reason Cleveland is where they are right now.
Edgar, its never black and white (pun intended hahahahah)! And you simply have to give credit where its due. Pax has done some things wrong and some right.
Ben Wallace is BETTER than Hughes - He got that wrong.
Never give an unproven coach a long contract - got that wrong with Skiles and right with DelNegro.
Rose is what the Bulls needed vs Measley - Pax got that right.
I remember the Bulls getting rid of Elton Brand, Brad Miller and Ron Artest. We were one of the rising teams in the east with great defense. Paxon needs to be patient with his talent. There are guys that are near impossible to replace - good point guard, and a good center. The others are interchangeable because all these kids practice is scoring. YES, give Pax and Vinny another year - they just got Rose, and Pax still needs to make some trades to completely define himself. This next trade is going to make or break Paxson.
JT, I was addressing Culzie's experience - outside of the league, but you know what...folks who believe that blacks have it better than whites in America in any area except ENTERTAINMENT are just tripping. White's who bring up racism is like Americans complaining about hoops in the Olympics. A complete joke. I have no respect for those that won't recognize REGULAR racism first. They claim it does not exist, and then cry reverse racism from the back seat of the Bentley. Excuuuuse me if I don't get upset when you spill your grey poupon!
There are so many problems with the bulls that i dont know where to start. well let me start at the top.. Jerry reinsdorf is cheap, he could have had a veteran coach with experience like avery johnson or doug collins or mike dantoni but he doesnt not like paying expensive contracts for coaches so thats why we end up with a nobody named DEL NEGRO. John Paxson has made so many mistakes with this roster that it sickens me. Luol Deng is more focused on charity work then he cares about playing basketball. He has no lateral movement no post up ability, no play making ability all he has is a 6ft 9 inch frame with a questionable jump shot was that worth 65 mill wow. Ben gordan is a great shooter but he is an undersized 2 guard. He cant play defense, he doesnt make any of his teammates better he doesnt command accountablity from other teammates he is not worth the contract he is looking for. Thabo is a great defender but he can not shoot a pebble into lake michigan, he has been with the bulls for 3 years at it looks like he hasnt spent 1 night in the weight rm. Joakim Noah what is his skill set? is he a shooter?no defender? no scorer? no Tyrus thomas? the word with him is potential but how long must we wait for him to stop shooting 18 foot jump shots. kirk hinrich is a decent backup point guard when compared to how good derrick rose is as a rookie. This roster needs to changed dramatically!!
Keith
I don't disagree with that. You'd have to be a real idiot (and they exist) to not recognize the issues that still exist.
Having said that, I think part of the reason that you'll get people ruffled up is when you get a disgraceful use of race like the one pulled my my favorite Black Panther, Bobby Rush the other day.
People need to remember that da Bulls have been playing without two of their starters (Gooden/Deng), maybe three (Hinrich), for damn near half the season so far. Many naysayers like to rip on Gooden, but he can be a double-double machine. As for Deng and Hinrich, they might not be living up to expectations but they are decent players who da Bulls have won with before. The real problem is Hughes' attitude. He sucks 70 percent of the time and it's so apparent when he's not in a 'good mood.' If he isn't getting enough minutes or his shot is off, he will slack on defense. I've seen it countless times before when he played for the Wizards and Cavs. The guy obviously thinks he is the second coming of Jordan, but in reality he should be getting the Marbury treatment. I don't care how much $ he makes, Del Negro doesn't have to play him and its hurting the team when he does. Da Bulls have enough talent to make the playoffs especially when Rose is running the show. Yet, they need to find a few different lineups that gel well together once everyone is healthy. I'm not sure if anyone has considered this either in the media or the fanbase, but maybe Pax can't put together a trade. Maybe teams aren't willing to give up an all-star for three middle of the pack players. It seems da Bulls need to work with what they got, minus Hughes.
While Vinny has to play with the hand he was dealt, he never should have been playing cards. Why an inexperienced coach for a "young" team which needs to be developed is beyond me!
The Bulls have done a horrible job of developing their players over the past 5 years. Everytime we trade or release someone, who couldn't get playing time in Chicago, they turn out to do okay in other places (Miller, Artest, Duhon, Crawford, Chandler, Tim Thomas, etc).
You have "good assets" that have regressed (Deng, Hinrich), others that don't develop (Thomas, Noah), others that don't get enough playing time to develop (Thabo, Gray) while we play selfish players like Hughes.
Gooden and Gordon are the only ones that have done their jobs (although we all know Gordon is defensively challenged) and it's a shame to see Rose surrounded by ineptness; I hope it doesn't rub off! Now, he gets doubled everytime he touches the ball and is being rendered less effective.
Move Vinny into an assistant GM slot, make Del Harris the coach, get rid of Pete Meyers, who has been one of the constants during this debacle and trade for some real talent before the value of our players decreases further.
I agree with the notion that 3/5 of the starters have been hurt. I will also say that Vinnie needs time to evaluate the talent. We are almost at the trade deadline and need to do some things and take some chances. If we want a defensive we need to trade Gordon. Second, we need to play Noah at center. Hinrich and Rose need to be the back court with Thabo going between guard and small forward, taking time from Deng. Gooden and Noce as the power forwards. Gray as backup center. If we get Kaman, he starts with Noah being the back up with some time at power forward. Huughes, Gordon, Thomas and Gray trade bait.
All kinds of coaches have mismatches, underachieving lineups. Look at D'Antoni, the Knicks roster is just as screwed up as teh Bulls...but he at least has them playing respectably...they beat the Celtics...so I don't want to hear that excuse. Vinny has no set plays, doesn't preach any D. I don't like the job he has done...and plus all those dumb ticky tack rules.
We could have done a lot better, Thibodeau, even Corbin or Hornacek would have been better. I can't wait until cheap ol' Reinsdorf sells this team
Tim, that is sooo funny, I thought about Keith doing that too..
I was like...its all LeBron, but somehow KLTSS will make it about Big Ben, and i think Cleavelands missing piece is....Eddie Curry!
Good post Rocco - I agree.
JT - I don't like Bobby Rush either (everyone is dead or in jail but him).
Tim, you are right Wallace is not responsible for Cleveland's recent surge, but he sure isn't holding them back like everyone thought he was with the Bulls.
Bulls showed last night what they should be. Rose was impressive with his assists. NOW THAT'S point-guarding. And that is the kind of ball the Bulls will have to play to improve and move forward. Vinny - the OFFENSE looked great. First time I've seen it this year. Passing, Cutting, high percentage shots. IMPRESSIVE. And DEFENSE!!! I wasn't even dismayed by the comeback.
Anyone catch that Phoenix game last night? Nash was interviewed before half-time and said its going to take him the entire season to get familiar with his team-mates. And he of course is absolutely right. Now if this is the assessment of a veteran point guard playing with two great post players and some good talent - what should we be expecting from Rose and the Bulls??? By the way - GREAT job Steve Kerr!!! Folks tore him to shreds for that Shaq trade, but he is looking good now!!! He traded a 3 for a 5. See how easy that math can be sometimes.
A home lose to Oklahoma City?
Pathetic to say the least.
I like how Vinny said "We had no leadership"
That's right Vinny.
"We had NO leadership." Vinnie, that's as self-deprecating as it gets.
Phil I was so mad about that game, but not surprised. Bulls are playing to the level of their competition AND some of them were guilty of resting on their laurels from then night before. Going to be up and down like this unfortunately. I love the Bulls, and realize this is the NBA and you could lose on any given night, but that was ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. Bulls need a trade to shake things up. I am very interested in tonights game. It will say if they have ANY personal pride whatsoever. They should be embarrassed and should apologize to our fans for stealing money.
Well Keith, it’s beginning to look like Paxson will continue to stay pat with the current roster because 1. he can’t find decent trade value for any of the bad contracts on the team or 2. he’s just not a very good GM, period. This is his mess, Keith. He stood pat with his original draft picks from his early years as Bulls’ GM too long and was never able to get the original core (Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, Jay Williams, etc.) to develop into a Championship caliber team. I haven’t even mentioned Thomas, Noah and Thabo yet because they’re still basically new to the team riding on their rookie contracts still. I think Paxson overestimated their potential and that is why we now have too many bad contracts on the roster, not including Larry Hughes because he wasn’t a Bulls draft pick. Ever since the original core finished out their rookie contracts, they all lost their edge and their overall hustle mentality and it all became about themselves only. Of course a lot had to do with money and not able to manage the salary cap effectively Paxson, but that goes with the GM territory.
That’s why I said that this season should have been part of a rebuilding plan with the new head coach. Now we have many fans upset again and many newspaper columnists making fun of the team again because unnecessary expectations were placed on the team. Keith, as regular bloggers to Bulls topics, how many times have we reiterated about the lack of team defense and intensity, the lack of hustle and energy? How many times have we said how soft Luol Deng is and how Ben Gordon commits too many unforced errors & can’t play defense; and how Hinrich has already peaked his “potential” in the NBA? Same goes with Hughes and his “me first” attitude and so forth. The Bulls problems today are nothing that we didn’t see coming. The roster has to be overhauled. The damage is done. It’s time to cut their losses and start over building a new core with I think Derrick Rose and Tyrus Thomas and then go from there establishing a new identity with new players from trades and free agency utilizing your players’ strengths and talents to their full effectiveness. Del Negro is just trying to experiment too much right now and he’s not developing the youngest guys on the roster like Thomas, Noah, Gray and Thabo well enough. I like Drew Gooden’s play this season, I really do, but he has no future on this team, period, that’s the bottom line. Get rid of him, get rid of Nocioni &/or Hinrich – it’s not that I don’t like these guys as players, but there’s no way any of those three don’t have trade value because they do. Offer future picks also in trade talks and try to clear cap space. Since the Bulls are so darn tightwad about hitting luxury tax territory, then at least learn how to MANAGE THE SALARY CAP! Look at Joe Dumars of the Pistons. I don’t know if he’s his own financial wiz or if he has his own financial consultant behind the scenes, but he knows what he’s doing with his roster and managing his salary cap well. Paxson doesn’t and basically, Paxson is almost too nice, which isn’t such a great trait to have when conducting business. If Paxson cannot land that big man that this team sorely needs by the trade deadline, then he’s gotta go by the end of the season. He has to take the fall, not Vinny and certainly not both at the same time. Let Vinny take over the reigns as GM since he has some front office experience and have Bernie or Del take over as head coach.
Edgar, as King Agrippa said to Apostle Paul "Almost thou persuadest me..."!!!! I guess I am like Lot's wife who could not resist watching!!! Michael and Scottie did this too me! Like Pavlov's dog the Bulls introduction music comes on and I have to watch!!!!
Bulls are up and down like a see-saw! The more I see of them the more I realize we need to make the decision to go with our young guys and ship away all the veterans. The Bulls are nothing more than a tease that will not end up with a "happy ending". And anyone emotionally invested will end up hurt and thoroughly unsatisfied. Even if they do make the playoffs, they aint going nowhere in the East. Not while Labron reigneth. Time to look at the next 5 years and build for the time when our Rose will be in full bloom. Bulls should part with Noch, Hughes, Gordon, Hunter, Ruffin and Hinrich. Keep the front line - Gooden, Deng, Thomas, Noah and Gray. Keep Rose and Thabo and look to add a freakish veteran (proven scorer) 2 guard (minimum 6'6) and another legitimate point guard, a sixth man (with defense), two 3pt. shooters and a project at Center. Just make sure these players are tall and athletic. No more undersized tough guys. One could hope to pick up a key free agent, but that is unlikely.
As for us insufferable incurable romantics, we look up...up into the rafters filled with banners of victory and the memories of good times past,...and we wait. And when we were fed up and ready to walk away the coy advances of the game whispered to us and bewitched us with a beautiful Rose. Its spell intoxic and so here we are...
OMG Keith has gohe all Shakespear on us now! I will say though he has a point to some degree about the memoies and good times past. He almost made me well up with tears. LOL
Edgar it would seem that you and I are the only regular posters that think Tyrus needs to stay and Noah has to go. Hughes definitely has to go even if it means getting a nobody and 3 draft picks along with a future possible cheer leader. Although LaBron wasn't Tyrus' primary defensive assignment last night he did an excellent job on him when he switched off on him. LaBron gave more credit to being sick than to the Bulls defense against him but I would like to remind him that MJ had one of his best Games in the play-offs while playing with a case of food poisoning.
Now as far as Vinny goes, considering this is his first coaching experience of any kind I think he's been better than expected. Granted Dell and Bernie have his back but just one case in point is that Tyrus has put together several solid games recently, something Skiles was unable to get out of him.
Oh yea one last thing....Culzie I'm not reading any more of your posts until after I empty my bladder!
Keith,
John Paxson (by himself in his office in full soliloquy): "To be or not to be? THAT is the question!"
typical, NBA story...nobody cares if you're not winning...Rose is a great talent, but part of the problem, not caring about playing in college, where REAL basketball is played. Granted, through all of this, he appears to have a good head on his shoulders, but alas, it won't last. The NBA is all about "gettin' mine"...it's not about basketball, the city you represent, or the players that have been there before you...the NBA is about money...unpure and unsimple...congrats to all you young millionaires, the bankruptcy clerk is right around the corner...to think that this was the healthiest pro league a few short years ago...wow.
I said it when they hired him, Vinny Del Negro is not the answer to the Bulls problems.
Del Negro is not the problem. The players are not the problem. The losses are not the problem. The fans are not the problem. Benny the Bull is not the problem. JOHN PAXSON is the problem, heck, he just admitted the fact the Bulls are what they are because of HIM. So, my question is....why don't you QUIT the job? He has NOTHING to show for as a GM in the last few years. Great player PAX, horrible GM.....it is time to go Pax.
All i have to say is that John paxon is a scoring big man away from being a better team. I wonder if eddy curry was still on the team would the bulls be a little better? Just wondering, what do you all think?
I can't blame Vinnie. Pax has made a number of big mistakes: 1) signing Ben Wallace, 2) drafting Tyrus Thomas 3) Noah. However, some players have chosen to disrespect three staight coaches. Skiles is(was) a good coach, the other two unproven. Players, such as Noah, Hughes, Gordon, (perhaps Thomas) need to be moved. Even though they are overpaid, I can't imagine Deng & Hinrich show disrespect for their coach. But when you have a few selfish players it affects the whole team. I'm not sure this is an underachieving team, it lacks much of inside presence & has no go to guy (where is Chet Walker when you need him). It is time to stop the coaching carousel & get rid of the cancer(some players) on the team.
I HAVE SAID IT ONCE AND I AM SAYING IT AGAIN, AND HOPEFULLY FOR THE LAST AND FINAL TIME, AND WHEN I SAY THIS I HOPE I SPEAK FOR EVERYONE INCLUDING WHO POST A COMMENTS ON HERE AND HAS WELL HAS SPOKE FOR MANAGEMENT WHO SEEM TO HAVE THEIR TONGUES TIED ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH THE BULLS ORGANIZATION. SO HERE IT IS
1. I LOVE JOHN PAXSON FROM THE BULL JORDAN CHAMPIONSHIP ERA, BUT HIS DECISION TO MAKE CHANGE HAS STAND WAY TOO LONG, THAT THESE PLAYERS ALL LOST VALUE TO ME NOW, SO MAYBE ITS TIME YOU THINK ABOUT GETTING A NEW GM
2. DESPERATE CRY FOR A BIGMAN IS SO NEEDED, I THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH THE SMALL GUARDS BECAUSE BEN GORDON, KIRK HINRICH AND D. ROSE ARE ALL TALENTED FOR THEIR SIZE BUT IF U DON'T HAVE SUFFICIENT BIGS WHO CAN PRODUCE CONSISTENTLY UNFRONT , IT MAKE THEIR JOB THAT MUCH TOUGHER,YOU SHOULDN'T LOOK AT THE BOX STATS EVERY GAMES AND SEE YOUR SMALL FORWARDS HAVE MORE REBOUNDS THAN YOUR POWER FORWARD AND CENTER.
3. WITH ALL THE COACHES AVAILABLE , WHY VINNIE DEL NEGRO WHO HAS NOT A LICK OF COACHING, HES BETTER OFF LETTING DEL AND BERNIE COACH, CAUSE I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF A TEAM HIRING A GUY WITH NOT EVEN HIGH SCHOOL COACHING EXPERIENCE, THAT LIKE THROWING A NEW BORN BABY INTO A POOL WITH MAN EATING HUNGRY GREAT WHITE SHARKS. THAT WAS SO WRONG FOR THEM TO SIGN HIM HAS A HEAD COACH,BUT I GUESS EVERYONE , GOTTA START SOMEWHERE OR SOMEHOW.
4.I AM A LITTLE SICK OF HEARING PEOPLE SAY BEN GORDON IS THIS OR BEN GORDON CAN'T DO THAT, BUT FACE IT , IF IT WASN'T FOR HIS SCORING GOD KNOWS WHERE THE BULLS WOULD BE TODAY I THOUGHT HE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE MONEY HE DESERVED OR EVEN CLOSE TO IT, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER HE WAS DRAGGED ALL SUMMER LONG WITH NOTHING THEN THEY THROW A 1 YEAR TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT SUMMER, UNDERSIZE AND ALL THE GUY IS GOOD, AND CAN SCORE AND I THINK MOST OF THE PLAYS SHOULD BE RUN THROUGH HIM, EVERYBODY CAN'T BE A-LIST DEFENDER . SO STOP THE BULLCRAP..ITS UP TO THE OTHER GUYS TO DO A BETTER JOB PROTECTING HIM AND IT STARTS UPFRONT .
5. TYRUS AND NOAH AND GRAY NEEDS TO GET BETTER AND FAST, DENG IS GOOD BUT SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN THAT CONTRACT NO OFFENSE, BUT WHEN U HAD A CHANGE TO GET PAU, KOBE AND KG AND WATCH THOSE 3 GUYS GO TO THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP 1 YEAR LATER, AND DENG WAS IN HIS CONTRACT YEAR, IT MAKES IT THAT HARD TO NOT GIVE HIM A CONTRACT THAT HE WANTS WHEN HE DON'T DESREVE IT CAUSE U SHOULD HAVE TRADE HIM WHEN U HAD THE CHANCE CAN'T LOOSE HIM FOR NOTHING NOW, SO HE GOT WHAT HE WANTED. WHEN HE SHOULD GET IT.
I HOPE THE BULLS IMPROVE AND IMPROVE FAST, BECAUSE ITS KINDA SAD TO SEE WHAT HAS BECOME OF THEM SINCE THE JORDAN , PIPPEN AND PHIL ERA AND REGARDLESS OF HOW BAD THEY STRUGGLE I STILL BLEED RED BLACK AND WHITE AND I WILL DIE A BULLS FAN. SO CHANGES HURRY PLEASE.