Four Hall of Famers on '69 Cubs? No

He was screwed again and the number of players from the 69 team should have nothing to do with it.
What is happening is that Santo actually cares about this and the bitter jerks that vote on it know this and feel important because they have the power to make him twist in the wind.
Obnoxious players who prop themselves up by tearing down other guys (like Joe Morgan) so they become bigger than everyone else.
If Santo acted as if he did not care he would probably have gotten in years ago.
If Bill Mazeroski is in the hall of fame then what is the problem with Ron Santo?
They are taking this and themselves way too seriously.

And what he is doing in the booth is making it worse. My heart goes out to him because he is really a nice guy and he is sick. You are right Roman...not 4. 69 team must've been something. Another sad footnote for the Cubz.

Ron was, indeed, a tremendous ballplayer. In the midst of his career, as a died in the wool Cub fan, I found he struck out a great
deal too much!
DMS

My best friend grew up in the same Bannockburn subdivision as Ron Cey....Keith he is not a NICE guy.

One time we were walking my friends dog, and it barked at Ron Cey, and Cey lifted up his golf club that he walked around with (as a cane) and was about to swing on the dog, when my Buddy took it out of his hands.

Dude is a grumpy grumudgen.

Im sorry he is sick, but that doesnt excuse being a Dbag.

Most Halls are comical (see Joe Namath in NFL Hall) but baseball seems to review every set of #s 19 different ways.

Mazeroski as philtration pointed out, is in there for his own Joe Namath-like entry with his 1 HR.

Culzie, the discussion is about Ron Santo, not Ron "the Penguin" Cey. Talk about two very different personalities.

I agree with Phil... if Bill Mazeroski can make the Hall of Fame, then there's no reason why Santo shouldn't be voted in finally after all these years.

As a proud member of the Friends of the HOF, I say that it is past the time for the HOF to end this charade and disband the "Veterans Committee"! All of the changes in voting requirements since 2001 have allowed only one person - Joe Gordon, this year - to join the ranks. This is an embarrassment to all involved!

I'd suggest using a more objective approach - say Bill James' Hall of Fame Monitor or Standards calculations - to determine 'overlooked' MLB players.

Stop torturing all of us; not just Santo, Oliva, et al; and end the Veterans Committee vote!!!

The HOF is a joke. If Santo can't get in with his hitting abilities being better than Brooks Robinson in a shorter career and fielding abilities being nearly as good as BR, a nine time All-Star--c'mon, then half the players in the HOF don't belong. It's a friggin' popularity contest and because Ron didn't play for an East coast team he is being denied. It makes no difference how many HOF players were on a losing team. If you look through MLB history there are many examples of more than four HOFers making it, but not winning anything. Ron - no shame in not making it. You are our hero. You gave us some great memories and you are a HOF'er here in Chicago. Shame on all of you veterans that didn't vote for Santo.

Mr. Modrowski,

As one who was a regular attendee at Cub games starting in 1965, my counter argument to yours, then, is if you exclude Santo because of other teammates going into the HOF, then it is only fair to assess the other three players' qualifications. Banks gets discounted, as HIS baseball legacy belonged to the prior decade, yes he deserves to go based on his 1954 to 1966 or 1967 numbers, but, as of the core members of the 1969 group, Banks was no longer a reliable offensive force. Jenkins was a solid starter, with Ks, and 20 win seasons, including a long AL Run, cannot argue his HOF membership, but, in the context of 1969 Cubs, I cannot place him ahead of Santo. Williams had a nice career, and was blessed with a great nickname, however, when talking about the core of the Cubs during their concurrent team membership, Santo was ahead of Williams in importance to the team, production at the position played compared to contemporaries both offensively and defensively, and in responsibility for team leadership. Santo protected Williams in the batting order, and was less effected by cold and hot streaks at bat than Williams, a notoriously streaky hitter at the time.

When compared to other HOF OF, Williams, in my estimation, was not at outstanding as the Mays, Aarons, or Clementes...Santo had NO NL peers until his numbers got supplanted, in a hitter's era, a decade later, by Mike Schmidt. Santo was a far superior run producer than his AL contemporary, Brooks Robinson. Still holding NL Defensive records at his position, better hitter than all but TWO of enshrined 3-basemen, (Matthews (who was NOT Santo's caliber as a fielder) and Schmidt), perrenial all-star and gold glover, I argue that it is unfair to shut the door on Santo because, perhaps, some teammates got consideration before him.

Has anyone noticed that INDIVIDUALS are selected for the Hall of Fame, not teams? Several teams from the 30s and 40s had four HOF members despite not winning a title. This is about which INDIVIDUALS deserve the honor. Santo did NOT strike out too much. Look up his record. Aramis Ramirez is probably the best Cub 3B SINCE Ron Santo, but Santo was better, defensively and offensively.

The NFL has a system that nominatess players annually, and a pre=determined number of eligibles is inducted each year. It is a much better system.

Sportswriters have NO BUSINESS voting for the Hall of Fame, or for MVP, or any other award that is then the subject of a story to write. It is a clear matter of journalistic ethics.

Is this Santo's last bite at the apple?

I sure as Hell hope so, because this never ending tale of woe lost it's legs long before Ron did.

My so called "formative years" were wasted watching this group of world class underacheivers, and Santo was the least likeable of the bunch.

I'd put Glenn Beckert in before Santo. In 1968, in 643 at bats he struck out ... 20 times!!!

Wrap your mind around that stat. Sosa would strike out that many times in a week.

These people that love to comment negatively about Santo weren't around then. How often did he lead the league in walks - alot - and he was a 25 HR/100 RBI guy his whole career when there were no "juiced" balls, steroid players, or "maple" bats. The hall of fame is an embarrassing joke. What kind of human being are you Villano to make a comment about his legs?

Villano, typically I am able to derive some humor from your posts, but the remark about the legs wasn't even remotely funny.

And poor Culzie must be sleep-deprived - that explains how he doesn't know the difference between a Santo and a Cey.

A buzz kill for me today, I guess.

Santo will never get into the Hall. I tend to agree with Philtration's theory that this is gratuitous torture on the part of the veterans.

It was Santo...i dont why Cey popped into my mind..

I loved him.

Bannockburn, IL
The village of Bannockburn is a somewhat inconspicuous upper-middleclass ... both owned homes there, along with Cubs legendary third baseman Ron Santo. ...
www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/109.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

I just said Cey, not sure why. But the story about the Dog goes with Santo, since he was the neighbor.

Villano, would you please explain why strikeouts matter in HoF consideration?

Looking at similarity scores, there's no question Ron Santo (4 HoF similars) is most reasonable to consider for the HoF. Same goes for Bill Dahlen (7), Jim Kaat (7), Joe Torre (5), Vern Stephens (4), Deacon White (4), and Al Oliver (4). I think they should all be in.

Instead, they elect Joe Gordon, whose similars are: Jose Valentin, Bob Boone, Jorge Posada, Adrian Beltre, Stephens, Javy Lopez, Bill Nicholson, Doug DeCinces, Ken Caminiti, and Kirk Gibson. Only Vern Stephens from this group has any business anywhere near the HoF.

But this is the same bunch of morons who last time out elected Bowie Kuhn and not Marvin Miller.

Unbelievable.

Regarding Bill Mazeroski: he's arguably one of the weakest players in the HoF, and any argument for another player not in compared to its weakest inductee is a bad argument.

The only real claim to fame Mazeroski has is that he was the best fielding 2B who ever played, most knowledgeable observers think by a long shot. But his hitting is really mediocre, and it's hard to think that any amount of glove prowess makes up the difference. He's a mistake, for sure. But the mistake now is that they're not letting in much of anyone, and when they do, it's a head scratching and non-deserving sort like Bowie Kuhn or Joe Gordon. At least before, they'd get a deserving player like George Davis in along with a loser like Phil Rizzuto.

"I'd put Glenn Beckert in before Santo. In 1968, in 643 at bats he struck out ... 20 times!!!"

Cause that's the whole purpose on offense, right? Striking out as little as possible.

First, I apologize for posting this here because I know it is not appropriate to this topic. But, please, please Roman......talk to Jim Hendry or any of your contacts associated with the Cubs......The Cubs need a lead-off man, left handed hitter with some pop and a center-fielder......please ask that they at least inquire re Nate McClouth with the Pirates.....great speed, a gold glove center fielder, 20 plus homers and a terrific lead off man......for the life of me I don't know why the Cubs haven't at least looked into trading for McClouth.....and, I'd be very pleased if you would e-mail me and at least let me know you have passed this suggestion along to the Cubs.......Thank you

"Anonymous" was an accident up there

Beckert better than Santo? only in one area...the hit and run...

Have you really looked at what he accomplished?

This is just a partial list of awards or TOP 10 NL Individual player statistical finishes.

Top 10 in NL MVP vote x4, All Star (peer voting) x 9, HRs x 7, RBIs x 8, Slugging Pct. x 5, Onbase percentage x 7 (2 x #1), Total Bases x 5, Doubles x 4, triples x 2 (including #1), Runs x 3, Hits x 4, BB x 10 (including #1 x 4...teams pitched around him a la Bonds), 5 consecutive Gold Gloves, and HR frequency x 5. All this in an era that was heavily weighted toward pitchers, and at a position where he outperformed all prior HOF inductees and all since EXCEPT Schmidt and Matthews (who was NOT as good a fielding 3Bman). Moreover Santo protected Williams in the lineup, and was protected only by a fading Banks, as well as being the team captain and leader.

Santo was the dominant NL 3rd baseman for a full decade, offensively AND defensively.

If he hadn't gotten voted in by the original Basball writers, it it only because he didn't suck up to the writers on the coasts. When comparing Santo to THIRD BASEMEN in the hall of fame, it is indeed a travesty that he has been omitted.

Culzie I'd like to know if that dog was on a leash. If he wasn't I have no problem with any one's perception of a barking dogs intention and preparing to defend themslef from being bitten. I have a friend that walks 5 miles a day and carries not only a rather healthy "cane" but also a .380 auto incase of a dog attack which is not all that uncommon. He'll tell you straight up if the cane doesn't deter an attack the .380 will sure as hell stop one. Does that make him a bad guy? No it makes him some one that is concerned with his own safety while taking his daily constitutional. Maybe Ron has a fear of dogs period and his intention was only to keep the dog away from him. That doesn't make him a grumpy old grumudgen.

Regarding the dog story; if Ron Santo got annoyed maybe he had reason to. Maybe the dog was snarling at him, maybe he wasn't feeling well; maybe he was thinking about how the Cubs choke all the time. Does that make him ineligible for the Hall of Fame because maybe he's not a nice guy every day of the year like all the rest of us? You have a group of voters in the 'Veterans Committee' who for whatever stupid reason are denying him entry year after year. Maybe the image of him clicking his heels wasn't professional enough for them. Using that logic there should be 8 players in the Hall instead of hundreds. And other than their first names, and playing third for the Cubs, Ron Santo and Ron Cey have little in common. Ron Cey had his best years with the Dodgers. My remembrance of Ron Cey is him setting the record for hitting the most pop up outs during the 1984 playoff series. I am really fed up with the sport right now. Hope I get over it.

I was as big a Santo fan as anyone when he was playing. I have now lost interest in hearing how great he was and how he deserves to be in the HOF. When he was first eligible for induction, the HOF voters didn't even give him any chance of getting in. He just wasn't good enough. Only after decades of image polishing and cubdom lobbying did his veterans committee hopes get raised. But so far there have been no less than 3 configurations and processes for veterans, and he still can't get voted in. It should be clear to most rational observers, Santo isn't viewed as good enough to get voted in, and never has been. So why is this a matter for cubdom collective handwringing and more moaning from the team moaning mascot? Why not just go gracefully into your golden years without all the unseemly and frankly, pathetic posturing and trying to weasel your way in. It isn't cute anymore. It makes the cubs and cubs fans look bad. If you care more about things like players in hall of fame than you do winning, then there will be another 100 years with no world series champions. It is enough now.

Great picture of Santo. Want to know why he isn't in the hall of fame? Want to know why people who played with him aren't that interested in voting for him? Look closely at that photo. Have you ever seen anyone in baseball conduct themselves like this after a win? And he was on a decent team that was winning a lot. It was tactless and crass when he was playing, and people don't forget that, especially if you were just beaten by him and his team. Santo never got it then, he thought he was popular and was being encouraged to behave like a fool. Now after all these years, he is once again putting himself and his pursuit of the HOF ahead of the team, ahead of the team winning a championship, and using his radio job to promote himself and his personal agendas. You would think that someone would let him know that his act wasn't very well received in 69, and his current act is wearing thin today. He didn't get voted in, too bad, the 69 cubs didn't win either, sorry. The road to the world series championship doesn't run down memory lane, never has, never will.

Real classy Villano!

Real classy Villano!

Thanks ... It's a gift.

No way someone runs 5miles a day with a "rather healthy cane and a .380 handgun.

Im calling Bullhonky on that Timbo.

Culzie make an appointment with the eye doc or read a little slower. I didn't say ran 5 miles a day I said WALKED 5 miles a day.

Who is he? The Skokies Lagoon Rambo?

Hey Tim, I understand that handgun for the Dogs. The southside has dogs roaming throught the forrest preserve. Can't even enjoy it because of them. I WISH I had a gun. Gives you a certain confidence and freedom. My wife would kill me though.

Typical liberal...Keith..

You want a gun personally, but no one else can have one.

LOL

I have a gun and a samuri sword.

Come over...we can play with them.

Come on Culzie you and I and Keith have bantered back and forth now for what going on 2 years or better. Where'd you come up with skokie? I pay enough attention to know you're in Phoenix but I guess you haven't paid as much attention as i have given you credit for in the past. So listen up now son I'll give this to you one time.....I grew up in NorthWest Indiana, lived in western NY state from 2k3 to 2k7 and currently live in North Carolina. The friend that I refered to lives down the street from me so I suppose in all of your enlightened wisdom he's just another typical southern redneck.

Please...dont give me any credit. I dont deserve it.

I only said Skokie, because it was the only forest preserve I could think of at the time.

Go Duke!

B

No culzie ..Go UNC Tarheels.... Deng may have come out of Duke but the best player in Bulls history or NBA history for that matter came out of UNC and if I need to tell you who that was I give up on you! LOL

I was just teasing you, other than Sheyer and CC...I am not a Duke fan.

Well UNC and Duke fans down here are like Cubs and Sox fans and ya know the love they have for each other. LMAO

ron santo was an idiot in his playing days. he's an even bigger one now in the radio booth. the man thrives on sympathy about his diabetes, and why he should be in the HOF.is he forgetting about how he treated former team mates(don young), sportscasters,writers, and opposing players? all of which are coming back to bite him in the ass.the man is a powder keg that's constantly exploding, or is that his ego? he thinks baseball OWES him the distinction of being elected to the HOF. even though his stats merit election, his personality during his playing days will keep him out. the old adage "what goes around, comes around" surely will apply to Mr Santo. he was also the WORST baserunner that ever played the game. his slidding into bases would put a 3 stooges movie to shame. in closing, Mr Santo, was NOT a very nice or easy to get along with person. THAT'S the reason he's not being elected to the HALL. and now he's trying to CRY his way in. face it Mr SANTO,if you were a decent human being, you would of been in long ago.

Hey Zonka,

Yeah, Santo has his flaws, but he is a HOF player. I suppose HOF players like Ty Cobb, Bob Gibson and Steve Carlton don't desreve to be in, right? They were some of the meanest, unfriendliest players of all time. Ty Cobb was the king of them all and he was in the first class inducted. You said it yourself that based on his stats Santo deserves to be in. However, Santo won't get in because he disses NYC and the Mets every chance he gets on the air vs. the Mets and because of what happened in '69. Santo deserves to be in the HOF based on his numbers, which were accomplished in the era of the pitcher, before the mound was lowered. He is a HOFer, period. The East Coast influence on the veteran's committee is obvious. I'm sure Seaver, Schmidt and other East Coasters won't vote for him.