I thought Rick Telander wrote a good column today, and it made me wonder what Ozzie Guillen's reaction would be.
Apparently, at least one Cubs player busted a pipe in the visiting dugout after the Cubs got swept Saturday night in Dodgers Stadium. It flooded the dugout and affected postgame interview activities.
The incident barely made a ripple until Rick wrote about it. And it made me wonder what would have happened had the Sox been in the visiting dugout when that happened.
I think it's fair to say it would have been a much bigger story. We in the media would have trotted out the old favorites like the blow-up dolls, the infighting, Ozzie's rants. And we would have used the busted pipe as an example of a rogue organization.
Not so much with the Cubbies. And I do think it speaks to how the city treats our two baseball teams differently.
It's not a huge deal. The Cubs apparently offered to pay, and I'm not saying any fine or anything should be levied. It would be nice to get an apology from the player who did it, because it's not fair to let all the players be suspected of vandalizing property.
But even without an apology, it will blow over. And it will blow over a lot quicker than it would have with the White Sox.
I totally agree. If Ozzie had not shown up for the post game interview it would have all over the newspapers. The same with the pipe breaking. I just don't understand why there is this double standard. This is why Sox fans hate the Cubs, no matter what they get the good press!
You are right on regarding the difference in reactions between the two teams. I really don't believe this was a news worthy event, but if the Sox organization was involved they would be ridiculed as poor sports.
Roman, you make a great point with this and are spot-on. No doubt it would be received differently by Chicago fans and particularly the media would have responded to this news differently. What we're all hoping will happen is that someone will stand up and admit they did it, apologize, and then we all move on. Won't happen. And the person that actually did this knows that this will definitely blow over and they have much more to lose than to gain by admitting they broke the pipe. If Ozzie did it, the news would "leak" immediately. And as much a glutten for attention as he is, he would go out of his way to make sure people either saw him do it or knew he was the man responsible. I am so disappointed we are talking about this instead of a Sox upset of the Rays and another potential run at the World Series. By this remaining a mystery as to who did it, the Cubs players and team staff further validate the notion they are a bunch of losers. Hard to make a connection with this and the poor play the Cubs demonstrated. But a failure to be accountable for the vandalism isn't all that different from their lifeless responses as to why they were swept. The culture surrounding that team and Cubs fans in general is hard for me to admire....all the posturing all season long, the signs "It's gonna happen", the opportunistic Eddie Vedder song...it all makes me sick. Fans that act like they've endured so much all their lives as Cubs fans when many of them adopted the Cubs as their team when they became adults. Many are Cubs fans because they follow the crowd and the Wrigley experience. It is far less fashionable to be a Sox fan and most of us like it way. Cubs fans would predictably respond to my comments with their disdain for the south side, US Cellular surrounding areas, poor attendance, everything. There will be no relevance/merit to their argument mind you, nor will there be a need for their argument in the first place. What happened to that pipe is a microcosm of what's ailed that franchise for 100 years...or certainly the last 20 or so. One of the most obvious differences between our 2 very different cultures here in Chicago baseball is that we would boo Dempster as he walks off the field and they boo the team after the loss. They claim they are more loyal by supporting their team. I don't care about whether Sox players are comfortable or not wondering if they're going to get booed. Get a hit and you won't have to worry about it. It's not like AJ, Dye, or Konerko are going to be visiting my house for a BBQ any time soon. Perhaps Cubs fans are under the delusion that these millionaire athletes make a similar emotional investment like Chicago Cubs/Sox fans do. We take it to bed, to work, throughout the offseason and shelve it for a few days at Cubs/Sox Fest. Most of them head off to AZ, FL, CA and will not make Chicago their home after their careers. No, their investment is not even close to ours. Yeah, I am sure it weighs heavily on them right now as they're winding down on beach in Hawaii with their families. Hold the players/coaches, staff accountable for everything. Wins/Losses, public relations, broken pipes, everything.
Of course the Sox are held to a different standard.
That is because they are not lovable losers or cute and cuddly.
Not winning a championship in a century will get you all kinds of special treatment too.
That's ok. Let the Cubs have the kid glove treatment...oops! I said "glove"
I really doubt that the Sox (or any other team for that matter) would've received more heat over this incident than the Cubs. It really is a non-story. It was interesting to read about it, and then I instantly forgot about it. I bet it happens a lot in visiting clubhouses but not necessarily in anger towards the home team.
What’s the big deal? Stuff like this happens quite regularly in sports. You are correct…the media did not jump all over this, but don’t’ compare it to the White Sox bringing a blow-up doll in their lockerroom. One is a closed door attack on a piece of metal, while the other was witnessed by sportswriters who deemed it offensive enough to write about it. And unless I'm wrong, I remember a decent amount of media coverage surrounding the Big Z vs Barrett rumble.
Why does everything have to be Cubs vs Sox, anyway? I bet if the Angels destroyed a pipe at Fenway nobody would care either (except maybe the Historical Society).
There is no questioning the fact that the Cubs have choked / blew it / went into hiding / whatever you prefer to call it the last two post seasons. They should be frustrated and I don’t think it’s a terrible thing that someone took some swings at a pipe behind closed doors. At least they made solid contact once before leaving Dodger Stadium. If the attack took place while the tv cameras were in the clubhouse it would be a different story, but they weren’t and therefore it isn’t.
Maybe P.I. Telander should focus his efforts on finding out who keeps stealing my copy of the Sun-Times on random mornings.
Are you kidding? Carol Slezak would have made this front page material had it been the Sox...
This gives the Sox fan something to talk about. About all they have to do until Guillen opens his mouth about something. Takes the brains of a Sox fan to make this an issue about the Cubs. Really if the fans would take a look at the team and offer suggestions about the team itself then these blogs might be interesting. But the continuing putdown of the Cubs shows exactly what Sox fans have on their minds. Not the SOX but the Cubs.
You know Roman,
Onto the subject, the Cubs will always be treated with kid gloves. Their organization was not meant to be a baseball dynasty, it is meant to sell seats. That is why kids like me could sit at home and watch the games all summer before going out to play softball in the. We wanted to be like the guys on TV, and who was on TV every afternoon, but the boys in blue. So glad I do not think like a child anymore, but the media still believes in those childhood fantasies. They need to let the fantasies go and let the Cub team that has no desire to win a WS go as well.
Support a team that actually cares about bringing the best talent and chemistry to your town, and winning it all. Not some memory of about 100 years ago of winning it all, try this century for once.
Forget about the pipe.
Imagine the heat Ozzie would have taken had he started Fukudome not once, but twice in the ALDS. Or shown up at a post-game conference to munch and mumble through pizza.
Ozzie took heat over his treatment of Vasquez. Lou is very tough on pitchers. Ask Hill who is now in the minors.
One final comment, at least the White Sox fans applauded their players for a good season. The Cubs fans nearly booed their team off the field (okay, the second game with three errors and Soto's inability to throw the ball back to Zambrano on the fly deserved some catcalls).
Good guys (and teams) do wear black, I guess.
"This is why Sox fans hate the Cubs, no matter what they get the good press!"
So you hate the Cubs because of what the media chooses to publish?
As a life-long Cubs fan (or you can believe I jumped on the bandwagon a few weeks ago if you choose), I'm not really concerned with this whole issue. If the Sun-Times wants to open an investigation and fingerprint the clubhouse to see who the culprits are then go for it.
Finding out who broke the pipe isn't really going to change anything. The Cubs still got swept. They still haven't won a playoff game under Sweet Lou. They are still going to report to Mesa in Febuary and go from there. If Geo Soto comes out and says "I did it. I was frustrated and needed to let off some steam before speaking to reporters and possibly saying something I shouldn't. I'm sorry and it's been taken care of." does that really change anything? The rule has always been that what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse. Every team lives by it. This incident happened in the clubhouse behind closed doors.
The organization has bigger things to worry about than who broke some pipe. The White Sox did a great job of making the playoffs this season in a division that appeared to possibly be out of reach when they started the season. Congrats to them, but I really don't think Kenny Williams or Ozzie are worried about this either - they have bigger fish to fry this offseason as well.
Good story Roman. Ozzie gets flak for everything he says or does. Ozzie is good for Chicago and the White Sox. He's a fan's manager while also a player's manager.
Harry, that fake name of yours you posted is not funny. It's pretty childish actually. You're way off on your assessment too. Sure things like this happen a lot in visiting clubhouses. But the playoffs are a bigger stage with more cameras, more media, and more scrutiny. And this is the Cubs, who are a big story to begin with and they just got swept in NLDS. They are just begging for a negative story to be made out of this by acting so dumb an dvery lucky this wasn't made that big of a deal out of. And nobody said it was done in anger toward to the home team. It doesn't matter really as nothing should warrant that type of behavior from highly paid professional athletes. Knocking over a bucket of balls or breaking a few bats over your knee is acceptable. Taking a hard object and hitting a pipe to the point where it breaks is another altogether. And then leaving the damage unaddressed is even worse. You're certainly in the minority on this one Harry. What that unnamed player/coach did was wrong. No question about it.
if this happened to the sox sure they'd have gotten ripped in the papers, but that's because it'd just have been the latest in a long line of screw-ups. constant drama and controversy, boats, intimidating of car wash owners, suspicion of murder, players being barred from entering canada, people breaking pipes. add this incident to the long list of sox off the field screw-ups and it looks like just another day in the life of the sox. as unfair as it may be, until the sox get an extreme makeover, they're going to continue to be "the other" chicago team. by makeover i mean new owner, new GM, new manager, new players. basically people who won't complain about how it's unfair that the cubs are a bigger draw and get more attention. it may be depressing seeing as a world series didn't change a thing, but they'd better figure out something.
Why does everything have to be Cubs vs Sox, anyway?
By Cowboy on October 8, 2008 1:10 PM
I guess Cowboy must be from Texas, Nebraska or some place like that to even remotely ask such a doofus question.
Maybe P.I. Telander should focus his efforts on finding out who keeps stealing my copy of the Sun-Times on random mornings.
Cowboy, you don't understand the rivaly and hatred and can't find your newspaper either. There has to be a GOOD NATURED WHITE SOX FAN gas-lighting ya Cowboy on the newspaper thing. Now the Loser Cubbies, you have to look at the Tribune Company BLOW-TORCHING you on that one.
No wonder the Cubs are losers! If you gotta ask Why -- that speaks volumes in itself.--- lol
Hardest thing they hit all post-season.
No one has the pipe like that in Dodger Stadium since Darryl Strawberry.
"To me, No. 1, when I saw what had happened, before we left I spoke to the Dodger people and told them if there was any damage, we would be accountable for it," Hendry said. "The clubhouse people informed me it was the fourth or fifth time it happened this year.
So therefore the other times didn't matter, but this time because it's the Cubs that did it then it has to be big news.
Also - had this story been front page material on Sunday and I was a White Sox fan I'd be pretty upset that anyone cared to print some "story" about a broken pipe when my team was still in the playoffs and had actually won a game.
The White Sox need an extreme makeover to compete with the Cubs?
To do what exactly?
To win a World Series before the powerhouse Cubs do?
To play in a ballpark where you are treated better than rat in an outhouse?
To avoid getting swept in the post season again?
To teach the Sox fans on how not to act like a complete jerk because you have a Japanese player on your team?
To learn how to take a lose like a grown man and not have the players act like drunken 15 year-old punks when they fail?
To learn how to avoid being a bunch of border-line racist crybabies who feel that the world owes them something?
What exactly can the Cubs and their fans teach the White Sox and their fans about baseball?
why are sox fans always talking about the CUBS ? just worry about the american league... Cubs never talk about sox... why ... cause we could care less what they do... you guys are funny,,, always hating on the CUBS ... its not our fault no one talks about the southside ... no one even cared when the sox won... i know ... its sad
What a huge insult to Cub fans! Perhaps it's retailiation for the poor sportsmanship of the Cubs.
Dodger's 3B coach Bowa: "it was like a West Coast crowd in Chicago, really."
My pick: Dodgers over Rays in 6.
This is really astounding. Go back and read through the comments from Sox fans. You guys have won ONE World Series in 89 years. You definitely have bragging rights over the Cubs, but these comical comments about the Cubs hapless history over the last 100 years APPLIES TO YOU AS WELL. Historically, the White Sox are a terrible organization. In the last 100 years you have thrown almost many World Series as you have won. You win the battle of the last 20 years, you win the battle of my lifetime, you should be proud of your world series victory, but for the love of God, please stop acting like you guys are the Yankees.
NIK, say what you want about no one caring when the Sox won the World Series. You happen to be incorrect, but our differences are what make us interesting. But don't say no one ever talks about the Sox. For starters, you just did. I also seem to remember someone ragging on the Blackout thing, and well, gee, the topic of this very thread is Ozzie Guillen's theoretical reaction if the busted water pipe had been done by a member of the Sox. In fact, Roman had like 5 blogs in a row last week about the Sox, remember when all the Cubs fans were complaining about that? BTW, White Sox fans are glad that you don't care about us and our team. (or at least you all constantly protest that you don't care.) We wouldn't want any of that karma floatin' South.
NIK, it's OK, you can cry on a Pirate's fans shoulders, oh wait, they won in the past half century! Damn NIK or NIL(for the past 100 years). You still have memories of 03' and so close. That damn Bartman, we don't hate you Cub fans, we feel sorry for you. Sorry you guys do not get it, your team doesn't care if they win the world series or not. Just keep filling up the stadium, and we will keep the Cubbie "atmosphere" of losing going. The Marlins have won 2 times in 6 years, the Red Sox 2 in 4? Follow a real team, cuz right now you guys seem like Clipper fans to us.
Waaaaaah! The Cubs get preferential treatment. Wahhhh, it isn't fair. Wahhhhh, everyone loves the Cubs and us poor Sox fans don't get any respect in the media. Wahhhh. Crybabies.
NIK - a classier organization and its fans are trying to inform you. Phil hit it right on the nose - there is NOTHING you folks can teach us. Until you actually do something related to real post-season winning baseball - SHUT UP and listen.