Why can the Green Bay Packers go from a legend to a budding star while the Bears can't get one right? The Bears can't get just one stinking quality quarterback!
It's beyond belief that an organization can go so long without having a star at the most important position on the team.
I can see 10 years from now the list of Bears starting quarterbacks during the Rodgers era.
Worse yet, didn't we take Benson the year he came out?
Great topic btw - at this point, how many years are we talking? Back to Luckman?? Good Lord...
Good question.
Was Jim McMahon the last QB that the Bears drafted with a top ten pick on the table? If so, all I can say is that 1982 was a long time ago.
With the dirth of talent they've had at this position during the ensuing 25 years, I find it hard to understand exactly how they've managed to spend that much time trading down, or avoiding the available quality quarterbacks alltogether.
I'm not real good at looking things up, but I'm curious, and I would like to know exactly how many stud quarterbacks the Bears have let go by the board.
I know they whiffed on Culpepper, and in retrospect, they should have taken a flier on him this off-season. And don't even get me started about Randy Moss.
its truly a joke!
So after 2 NFL starts, Aaron Rodgers is now the anointed budding star? You see, this is where the irritating quarterback debates begin and then continue on with the Rex bashing. Let's all take a trip down memory lane back to the dismal 2007 season where Rex got benched after the third game of the season....
Yes, Rex deserved to get benched at the time in favor of Brian Griese, I agreed also at the time, but I already knew that it wasn't all his fault and that the O-Line stunk, Olsen gets hurt early, and the wide receivers (particularly Muhammed and Berrian)were dropping balls and running wrong routes. Well, look where that went. So why did Griese eventually fail also? No offensive line, no playmaking receivers, injuries to the defense causing too much pressure on the offense, etc. Same story as with Rex. But of course, the full blame went to Rex as usual because many people and expert analysts have already etched Rex's name in joking punch lines and criticism, while I kept reading about how Griese just had the one bad game and that he'll do better next game blah blah... but never happened with the exception of one miracle pass to Hester vs. Philly in Week 7. So now, Griese gets hurt in the Oakland game on Week 10 and Rex takes over and leads the Bears to victory. In fact, Rex starts the next 3 games, plays well and only throws 1 interception in all 4 games that he played in the 2nd half of the 2007 season. Yes, 1 INTERCEPTION TOTAL with an avg QB rating of a respectable 86.1. But of course, no credit is given from the coaches, the fans, the media, the talk shows, the bloggers, etc. Everyone is convinced that the guy can't play in the NFL. He's too short, he's too slow, he has small hands, he's not reading the playbook on the sidelines, he can't handle blitzes, it's not coaching, it's Rex... it's all Rex. The lost season is all Rex's fault. I've heard it all, believe me.
Fast forward to 2008 preseason. Now people are concerned about a conspiracy in the QB competition that Rex has it all wrapped up to begin the season as the Bears starter, but gee, we all come to find out that Lovie and Turner already knew in their minds that they wanted Kyle to start the season all along because of his impeccable "game management" skills.
So now after 2 games into the NFL season, people are now anointing Aaron Rodgers as the next great QB. Boy, those Packers made right by getting rid of Favre! Gee, never mind the talented wide receivers surrounding Rodgers in Driver and Jennings. Never mind the Packers having a much superior offensive line that helped lead the Packers offense last year into the NFC Championship game protecting Favre and opening up holes for the surprise rookie, Ryan Grant. Forget all that, it's all Aaron Rodgers, the hope of the Packer nation who once bled Brett Favre.
Wow, I'm really surprised this blog topic, Roman. Jumping on the bandwagon so quick on Aaron Rodgers after only 2 NFL games... Can't wait to hear more witty Rex jokes from Villano and Philtration!
Keep in mind that Rogers has had 2 good starts Rex was also budding star at one point during the 06 season then what happened. Rodgers is going to have his bad days they just havn't come yet, it's a little to quick to label him a budding star. Vince Young is another "Budding star" who is going through growing pains.
Yeah it is quite frustrating being a Bears fan since 1987. I watched as Jim Harbaugh was ran out of town only to become an all-pro in Indy. "Captain Comback" is what they called him. Then we went through some bums before Eric Kramer became our QB in the Wanny era. He put up some great # in '95, but was overlooked b/c the defense sucked and the bears went 9-7 and missed the playoffs due to tie breakers with Atlanta. I believe if we had a better Defense that year, it might have been the Bears playing Dallas in the NFC title game that year and not Greenbay. What happens next? Kramer hurt his neck and we went thru a whole stew of bums before the 01/02 season when we went 13-3 mainly because of a good running game and a defense that just could not be ran on. Then we went thru some more bums @ QB before Rex and Kyle landed. Now I wouldn't call Rex and Kyle bums, because they both have winning records as starters and they have their strengths and weaknesses. But the city, organization, coaches and media needs to develope the patience needed to let a QB develope. we never had that. It takes the right people, the right system, the right coaches, and the right city for a young QB to develope into a star. For some reason, we never had that. And Im not sure what it is.
maybe because a quarterback to bears management is their change at a McDonald's drive through!
Rodgers has receivers, a better offensive scheme and hasn't faced the caliber of components the Bears have. If he faces good defenses two weeks in a row, then let's talk. Otherwise, he has faced porous opponents who seem barely able to walk and chew gum at the same time much less put up a "competitive" defense against the Packers.
Oh, and watching Favre day in and day out is way, way better tutelage than having to talk "O" with Ron Turner.
Well since 2001 you can blame Jerry Angelo.
His dumb decision to trade down in the draft to get Rex Grossman just so he could draft a DT bust to go along with him is the only feeble attempt that this clown has made to address the position.
He has passed on veterans like Kurt Warner and avoided any attempts to move up in the draft to get a player like Carson Palmer. He views the QB position as an after thought or even a necessary evil.
He picked up Kyle Orton in the 4th round and after he sat behind Jerry’s golden boy for years he now has the job because his only competition was Rex and an undrafted rookie.
Once again Angelo did nothing during the off season to fix this mess other than trade away Brian Griese who was probably their best QB.
He passed on several QBs this year so he could draft a WR who was on no one’s radar and cannot even get into a game with a team that has no receivers. How bad was that pick so far?
This is what Jerry wanted. The Bears anoint their 3rd tier QB as the starter before the season starts and the whole coin flip saga was just them blowing more smoke up our McCaskey. Not to mention them being the laughing stock of the league for doing it. They knew it was Orton and now we get the “Kyle is our quarterback” routine.
This is about as exciting as a tub of cold, soap scum covered bath water.
Orton has more real game experience than Rodgers but he can't throw the ball more than 15 yards without giving us Mike Tomzak flashbacks and Jerry seems more than willing to throw away another three years waiting for his pick to pan out.
He simply does not get it and his bosses are too clueless to know it. He has a job.
Caleb Hanie looks better than their combination of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb and I expect him to be gone after this season. Why keep him around after showing signs of a real live NFL QB in the pre-season? Keep the competition watered down and expectations will never get much higher than Garrett Wolff’s jock strap.
This is such a sore subject I'm finding it difficult to even comment.
Roman, are you a closet Packer fan?
Rodgers is a new born babe in the NFL & Farve is a grand dad. That's where the comparison ends. Rodgers has accomplished no more than good Rexx did when games just came easy to him.
Wait until the Packers face some adversity. Wait until Rodgers is sacked so hard he sees birdies spinning around his head. Then will see if the kid's got what it takes to graduate from puberty in the NFL.
As for the Bears, Orton didn't lose that game. Olsen did. The promised one if I remember. The Bears budding all-everything tight-end. It seems he's stuck in puberty as well.
I was impress with some of the long bombs Orton through. They didn't result in catches but I didn't think Orton had that kind of arm strength. He can definitely air it out.
Since 1990, the Bears have used first-round picks on the following offensive players:
Stan Thomas, Curtis Conway, Rashaan Salaam, Curtis Enis, Cade Mcnown, Rex Grossman, Cedric Benson, and Greg Olsen
Can any other team say they have drafted worse offensive players during that same time span??
Tim - I am dying!!!!!
Phil - I like Hanie too, but he has to sit through the Orton era. Orton is serviceable and Hanie needs the time. They should be serious with him though and get him ready as the #2. Give Rex a supertransfer and show him where the greenline is.
Detroit has drafted worst. Orton is not the answer and if Rex isn't, lets move on. the main complaint I have about the Bear QBs are the slowness in replacing them. If one isn't the answer, according to the coach, replacement them. I think they are afraid to trade Rex because he is still young, does have the arm and it takes time and I would still like to see him under center and if traded he will be a starter, period. It is certainly not necessary to draft QBs in the first or second round. I believe the line is the way to go, unless there is a tremendously skilled player when it's your turn. Is it still possible to get Dixon from the Ravens?
Everyone jumps on quarterbacks. What about the Greg O. fumbles and R. Davis's? Besides, the defense couldn't hold. I repeat, that no quarterback can be successful without protection and receivers who do not drop or fumble passes. I think Rex would have hit a couple of receiversthat Orton missed, but Orton still did okay except for the fourth down bad decision. He after all did beat Peyton Manning. Does that make him a better quarterback? Hell no!It makes the Colts a worse team on that particular day, just as the Panthers were better Sunday.
im really sick over this...
Keith -
I agree with you about Hanie. I am not saying that he is ready yet but I have no real confidence that Angelo will keep him around to let him develop. I would bet that this guy has a lot better chance of being the Next Tony Romo than Rex or Kyle has. Groom him for the # 2 spot right now because Rex is gone after this season.
Then you can see what he has going into training camp next year. Give him a real shot at the job and bring in an offensive coordinator (right!) or at least a QB coach who can teach him a few things. He looks poised, has a good arm and he can roll out of the pocket when he feels pressure. Play to his strengths instead of dumbing down everything to match the coaches.
I would start giving him as many reps as possible in practice because you already know what you have in Grossman and you can probably say the same for Orton.
Is Orton playing every day going to make his arm any better? No. He does not look like the answer for more than one season.
Is having Rex stand around like a sulking kid preparing you for next year or the next five years? No. Grossman is done is Chicago so make the move to have him as the emergency QB and move on.
How about a playmaker at QB instead of just settling for a "game manager" again? They need to stop setting the bar so low year after year.
Keith -
I agree with you about Hanie. I am not saying that he is ready yet but I have no real confidence that Angelo will keep him around to let him develop. I would bet that this guy has a lot better chance of being the Next Tony Romo than Rex or Kyle has. Groom him for the # 2 spot right now because Rex is gone after this season.
Then you can see what he has going into training camp next year. Give him a real shot at the job and bring in an offensive coordinator (right!) or at least a QB coach who can teach him a few things. He looks poised, has a good arm and he can roll out of the pocket when he feels pressure. Play to his strengths instead of dumbing down everything to match the coaches.
I would start giving him as many reps as possible in practice because you already know what you have in Grossman and you can probably say the same for Orton.
Is Orton playing every day going to make his arm any better? No. He does not look like the answer for more than one season.
Is having Rex stand around like a sulking kid preparing you for next year or the next five years? No. Grossman is done is Chicago so make the move to have him as the emergency QB and move on.
How about a playmaker at QB instead of just settling for a "game manager" again? They need to stop setting the bar so low year after year.
An organization that for the past 40 years has been defined by its linebackers ain't going very far in today's NFL.
An organization that during the Angelo regime shies away from using its best players to create advantageous mismatches ain't going very far in today's NFL (eg, on defense, we have two game changing linebackers, but don't let them blitz enough, instead we play the softest cover 2 ever developed; on "O" we don't take advantage of a strong group of tight ends even though an offensive juggernaut like the Cowboys runs its entire offense through its one good tight end -- Witten)
An organization that is prone to hiring some of the most smug, pompous, egomaniacs as head coaches ain't going very far in today's NFL. Ditka, after winning the SB, seemed to get paid by the word because he could never shut his mouth. Lovie, after losing in a SB, seems determined to prove his way works -- no matter what. Don't get me started on Wannstedt.
An organization that spends multiple millions on defensive players, but lets its offense die on the vine, ain't going very far in today's NFL. Briggs, Harris, Urlacher, et al got their big pay days. Hester got his, but he ain't an offensive player anyway. He is a special teams superstar, which in LovieLand is a defensive component.
Honestly, the more I watch the Bears, the more I realize that the most important offensive statistic to Lovie is no INTs. He doesn't care if the offense scores. In "LovieWorld" it's the defense that scores and the offense exists only to give the defense an occasional rest. But like I said, that mentality ain't going very far in today's NFL.
Kyle -- take my advice. Break your helmet microphone and begin calling your own plays. Forget about the stupid WR screen, we don't have the personnel to run it. FIND YOUR TIGHT ENDS EARLY AND OFTEN. DO NOT STOP THROWING TO THEM UNTIL THE DEFENSE FIGURES OUT HOW TO CONTAIN OLSEN and CLARK. Then hit them with Forte and Jones.
Christ, this ain't that hard in today's NFL.
Phil - I definitely agree. I am up for giving Orton his shot because he has paid his dues and I have seen him overthrow his receivers - meaning he can get it out there. He just has to work on it. I think he has all we need if he can just do that. But he is a work in progress. The one thing I hate about making youngers wait is that it seems to kill the edge they have coming in. Waiting was not good for Hester and he has produced.
Phil:
That first post of yours should have been printed in the hard copy of the Sports section.
Great stuff!
I take back what I said about Grossman. His performance in the last pre-season game was awesome. We should try giving the reigns to Hanie. He's got great moves for a rookie. Hopefully we don't drop him in favor of signing another first-round drew drop.
I want to commend the bloggers for not introducing Jim McMahon into the "greatness" discussion...
Tommy:
You're correct.
McMahon was a mediocre QB. His career stats don't rate even a second look as far as Hall Of Fame balloting is concerned.
He just happened to be a good game manager who was in the right place at the right time during the jugernaut that was the Bears' '85 defence.
He was just Kyle Orton with a better running back, and a more fearsome "D".
They were daring people to call in on the radio today and name more than 5 good NFL qbs right now in the league. That are playing good.
Hard to do...
Favre
Rodgers
McNabb
Rivers
Mannning
??
Favre
Rodgers
McNabb
Rivers
Mannning
??
Culzie, coming up with 5 is easy. It's 10 that could get a little difficult, but off the top of my head:
Manning
Rivers
McNabb
Romo
Cutler
Favre
Roethlisberger
Palmer
Brees
Warner
Hasselbeck
And then you can make the case for Garrard and D. Anderson if you want to go by last year's numbers.
I'm just more surprised you mentioned Aaron Rodgers after only 2 starts, but then again, you practically anointed Matt Forte the second coming of Payton after Week 1. Let me guess, you've had the scout's eye on Aaron Rodgers since his College days with Jeff Tedford's California Golden Bears? You the man, Culzie!
Can we add Warner, Romo, and Cutler?
I was screaming for Angelo to get Brees. He was there for the taking and Angelo never even considered it.
Not only do we get another year of no real NFL QB for the Bears but there is no one being groomed for 2009 and beyond. How many more years of this do we have to endure?
How can so many people understand what the biggest problem with this organization really is while the team itself can’t see it right in front of their faces?
That is the frustrating part.
Palmer? Are you nuts? He is not even playing decent let alone GOOD.
Also, Brees and Hasselbeck havent done anything this year either.
I did not say give me 10 QBs who have been perennially good. I said playing GOOD right now. Hence Rodgers on the list.
You didnt read the question right.
Orton can't throw the ball long. He can fling it far with no accuracy and absolutely no touch. There is no talent in what he does lobbing long. Any idjit can throw far, but connect with a WR in stride would impress me. I don't think that passing long will ever be his forte. And why can't Ron Turner get a pass for having to deal with these QBs that he's had to deal with. He did get a lot out of Kramer who actually played head and shoulders better than Mcmahon ever did. We should know from that that Turner can make any QB with a strong arm and a steady head a decent player. So since he hasn't had that plus a consistent running game at the same time , his hands have been tied. So has anyone who is drafting QBs with money coming from the McCaskey coffers. Do you honestly think that Angelo can go out and establish drafting a QB in the upper 1st round and the team owners will sign off on a 60 million dollar rookie contract? Get real. Wouldn't happen in a million years. Some things are a direct result of company image and restraint. You wonder why it has never happened? Can't blame Angelo for continuing what was established decades before he ever got here. You can only blame him for taking the job with that upfront knowledge. And I agree that Rodgers will experience some lows that make you forget that he was playing great. I figure he may still finish in the top 12 percent in QB play. Just because a lot of QBs are stinking it up this year.
Yo Culzie!
I think we need to add Griese into the mix.
400 + yards is huge, and the win was even bigger.
I'd give anything to know what Brian Griese is thinking, and feeling right now.
It must be something along the lines of:
"Yeah!!!! F U Ron Turner! I did tune out your yacking into my headphones last year so that I could actually win the stinking game.
And WTG Jerry! Thanks for cutting me loose, and giving me an opportunity to play for an offensive minded coordinator. And Lovie ... nevermind. Just go back to sleep."
It appears that the Bears are using everything on Matt Forte.
This is too much to focus. Are there not any players who can
contribute besides dropping passes. The opposition is keying on Matt at every play.........
The answer is simple, if you want to know what's the problem is, look to the past, what the Bears lack is fire(heart), look at the Bears of old. Butkus,Payton,Mcmahon,Mcmichaels,Dent,Marshall,Singletary,Plank,Fencik,Wilson,Hampton and so on.mReal warriors and real men. If you survived in a game with any of these men. You said your prayers, these cubbies play a soft and plain game, there is'nt no sense of urgency or pride, they wanted to talk of being compared to 1985 Bears, stop with jokes, the 85 Bears could talk the walk, and smack the taste out of your mouth.The difference between Mcmahon and those no name wienies heart baby. He had balls, he could suck all day long but whe the game was on the line, and play had to be made, it was. A perfect example of heart, Delhomme sucked for 3 quarters, Lance Briggs put a vicious lick on him, what did he do, did he crawl off and run away with his tail between his legs, hell no, he got up pissed off, yelling and cursing and responded like any real man would, he fought and scrapped his team to a win. These Bears are too mild for , my taste. They have been neutered by Ron Turner and Babich coaching.
Alright, new list based on your criteria then, Culzie:
Cutler
McNabb
Roethlisberger (before the Steelers lost yesterday)
Romo
Warner
Brees
And yes, Aaron Rodgers
Those were 7 names I just rattled quickly based on the first 2 weeks of the NFL season, not including Week 3 games. still the same afterthought though... easy to come up with 5 names, but 10 would be difficult.
Ill grant you 5 and half names.
Rothlis is out brees is on the fence with no receivers.
Perennially.....
WRD --
Don't worry about Orton being able to throw the ball long, the Bears lack the speed at receiver to catch long balls.
Be happy they won. I'm predicting 4-2 after six games, but then the real fun begins. If I were the Bears OC, I would be using the next few games to introduce Orton to his tight ends (IMHO he can't throw enough to Olsen and Clark), to sign a pact that says Orton will never run the naked bootleg again, and to get Kevin Jones more involved in the game before they kill Forte after only 8 games.
On D, I would make a team rule that the defense cannot take press clippings about its goal-line stand out on the field against the Lions and the Falcons, and that it can't run the Cover 2 anymore. They should have learned after the Colts game that yesterday's news is best used to line bird cages. Let's hope humility is a dish served daily at the Bears training table.
What about Brett?? Six TD's gotta count for something.