Is that the kind of dough Ben Gordon will want now?
I've never been a Ben Gordon fan. He's way undersized at 6-2, he can't play point guard (though that isn't a problem anymore), and he can't defend anyone. Gordon does one thing, score, but make no mistake, he is the Bulls best scorer by a mile. He still doesn't do it as consistently as the Bulls would like, but he's the best they have. But as a restricted free agent, the Bulls now have to quantify Gordon's value to the team, a task that just may have become a little dicier.
The Warriors resigned former prep to pros star Monta Ellis yesterday to a huge extension. Since they are both young, undersized shooting guards, Ellis' contract is probably a good one for the Bulls to work off of. Ellis is three years younger than Gordon, and is much better at getting to the rim. Ellis shot an absurd 53% from the field last year, a mark 10 points high than Gordon. But Gordon is clearly the superior shooter, particularly from three point territory.
There was talk of Gordon hoping to sign the one year tender, meaning he'd be an unrestricted free agent after next season, earlier this year. Would you rather see the Bulls give Gordon a long term contract similar to the one Ellis just received, or keep him for a year and potentially see him walk with no compensation in return? Ideally, I'd love to see the Bulls try to sign and trade Gordon for a bigger shooting guard that can get to the rim more consistently and take defensive pressure off Rose, but that may be a difficult task.
Well 66 million for 6 years isn't too far from what Gordon and Deng were offered last year isn't? wasn't one offer reportedly 57 mil for 5 years? And neither one of them performed at a level worth that last season. Sign and trade both of them.
I would like to see how things mesh between and Rose and Gordon. I think with Derricks penetration and his ability to create shots for others could lead to big points by Gordon. Gordon is much more vital then hinrich in my opinion now that the bulls have Rose. Hinrichs shooting has been way off and now with Rose leading the team Hinrich becomes the Chris Duhon of the team in my opinion. Larry hughes is there if needed and Deng will be resigned, if he's not then the bulls might as well tell there fans that they do not care about the organization anymore. A scenario I wouldn't mind seeing is hinrich and another player for Emeka Okafor. That would give them another low post player/starter that would help out a ton!
Gordon's not a game-changer, so I would be reluctant to extend him at Ellis' figures. He's a nice NBA player, but limited. Packaging Gordon, Hinrich and expiring contracts for 2-guard depth should be the move. I'd love to move Hughes too.
Paxson is NOT capable of doing naything that remotely looks like a NBA General manager move. Haven't u figured that out YET?
Where is the Bulls low post scoring coming from? For the 10th year in a row? Why is Hinrick still here?
Ricky,
I agree 100%. I too have never been a Gordon fan. He's a lousy basketball player except when he is actually shooting the ball. He has no other skills that are NBA caliber. What good is your primary scorer if he cannot create a shot in a clutch situation?
I would like to think that, with Rose distributing the ball, the Bulls will have other players score more. Perhaps Rose will be a better scorer than Gordon. Maybe those are pipe dreams, but I would not want to be tied to Gordon for 5 or 6 years.
That said, I think that Gordon will have to go to unrestricted free agency to find out how little he is worth. I hope not for the Bulls sake. The worst thing is to fond themselves losing Gordon and Deng next year without the cap room to replace them. I'm glad I'm not Pax.
I do want to say that Gordon is not all bad. He seems like a good guy and a good teammate, and he appears to work hard. I wish that were enough. Maybe he will turn a corner this year, but that really may be a pipe dream.
If I were the Bulls management, I would offer Deng a contract for right around what Ellis signed for. They play different positions so you can't totally compare them, but you can compare their production last year...
Deng - 17ppg, 6.3rpg, 2.5asp in 33.8mpg
Ellis - 20.2ppg, 5rpg, 3.9asp in 37.9mpg.
If you break down their stats per minute, the two provide very equal stats.
Deng - .5 pts, .19 rbs, .07 assists
Ellis - .53 pts, .13 rbs, .1 assists
Then I would sign and trade Gordon for anything good. Call me an optimist but I think Hinrich can play the 2 next to Rose and I also think Sefolosha is due for a break out yearat the 2. He was showing flashes during the second half of last season.
I think Odom or Marion would be availble for the right price...maybe some package of Gordon and Tyrus or Nocioni would be able to bring one of them in.
If all of this were to happen...in my fantasy world, I think Chicago would have a pretty good team to work with.
PG - Rose, Hinrich
SG - Hinrich, Sefolosha, Hughes
SF - Deng, Nocioni (if not traded), Nichols, Simmons
PF - Odom/Marion, Gooden, Tyrus (if not traded)
C - Noah, Gray
I'd like to see Gordon one more year with Rose on the team. The guard that needs to be traded is Kaptain Kirk. Don't get me wrong, he can play both guard positions better than Gordon, but Gordon clearly is the better scorer. We don't need point guard play from Kirk, so let him ride. As far as starting 2-guards go, Sefalosha should be the man at that position, plus you still got Larry Hughes for back-up. Rose is your starting point, and you can interchange Ben in the line-up at guard.(6th man) The complete starting line-up Rose-1 Sefalosha-2 Deng-3 Gooden-4 Noah-5. Bench - Gordon, Nocioni,
Thomas, Hughes. Sounds good to me!
I am a Gordon fan because I know its very difficult to score in the NBA, and Gordon is quite good at it. In fact, when hot is able to counter ANYONE and inparticulary in the 4th quarter when its most difficult to do. Monta is a bigger, has better handles, is more explosive going to the basket and is defensively superior to Gordon. But Ellis is in the run and gun west where the defense is weaker, and played opposite the Red Baron. On the Bulls roster, he would have to shave off at least 5 points from his average of 20ppg because teams would key on him and the Bulls are a half-court offense. See Shawn Marion for reference. Gordon in the west with a bonefide star like Baron Davis....would not be nice. The Almond-Eyed-Assassin would wreak havoc on that lacksidasical defense. All that being said, I would resign Gordon and trade Deng who would fetch a better value. We need a bonifide star and Deng and Hinrich would make an appetizing offer on the market. If Pax can part with his beloved core. Bulls desperately need a star, and the Center and shooting guard positions need upgrading.
My opinion on BG... yes, this is probably the kind of dough he will want because he already turned down a 5-year, $57 million offer from the Bulls last year. My big problem with him is that he thinks he's better than he really is. Of course I don't know him personally, but that is how he perceives himself as. His only strength on the court is his ability to shoot 3's and I guess, free throw shooting percentage, but even then, a one-dimensional player like him should be shooting free throws at a clip of at least 93% or better and he doesn't get to the FT line enough like Ellis does because he doesn't like contact.
Although both BG and Ellis are undersized players, they both play a different game despite both being labeled as "scorers". Both don't play a lick of defense, but Ellis is much more explosive a scorer and does excel under Nelson's system better than Gordon has with whatever system the Bulls have had since they drafted him. It still remains to be seen what type of system Del Negro and company will run, but fact of the matter is that this is a rebuilding phase for the Bulls and I just don't see BG in our long term plans. If they want more size at the 2-guard position, then they have to figure out a sign and trade, otherwise, let him sign the 1-year tender offer and say sayonara next year. Remember, the Bulls still have Larry Hughes and Thabo at the 2 if they really covet that size. I know, those 2 aren't the greatest of options it looks like, but Thabo is still developing and we're basically stuck with Hughes and his inflated contract. The sign-and-trade is the best scenario, but I just don't see any takers out there for BG. Looks like the Bulls are just s.o.l. with BG, I'm afraid, but I certainly wouldn't pay him the Ellis salary if that's what he really wants.
Got to agree with MG up above. I've long ago stopped making up trade scenarios because I belive Pax is truly incapable of making any type of personal move. Whether it be a sign-and-trade, or anything remotely close to an inspired or creative upgrade of the team. This is the team, Deng and Gordon will sign qualifying offers and walk away next year for NOTHING. Pax make a big splash, that just seems unpossible.
It's irrelevant - they're not signing Gordon to a long-term deal at anywhere near that amount. Doesn't deserve it. Ellis is definitely the better player which again shows why Gordon won't get this kind of money...at least not from the Bulls.
One dimensional 6'2" shooting guards are not exactly in high demand. Neither are 6'3" point guards who dribble way too much. Nor are 6'8" small forwards who are soft but can hit the open 18 footer.
Uh oh...
Keith, I know we've gone back and forth about BG in the past and I know that you like him, but I just can't side with you on BG. He's just too undersized and too one-dimensional for my tastes. Same with Ellis too, actually. I agree with you, Ellis on the Bulls wouldn't exactly lick my chops either since I pretty much see Derrick Rose with similar skills as Ellis, but the biggest difference is that Rose will involve his teammates more while Ellis... he's just too much a scorer to play the point effectively. My problem is that sure, both guys are nice NBA players and they'll help most teams to make the playoffs, but come playoff time, they both will get eaten up by the bigger 2-guards on playoff teams which will surely assign big & tall lockdown defenders on them. Neither guy is championship material in my opinion, especially since neither guy can play the point well, although Nellie is trying to force Ellis to play the point, but that'll backfire on him eventually, you'll see. Ellis doesn't have 3 point shooting range yet also, unless he somehow magically improves that long range jumpshot of his this offseason. Looking at his mechanics, I don't see it, but that's just me. At 6 years, 66 mil, that's not bad for Ellis, but BG is not better than him. Ellis is a lot tougher for opposing defenses to defend than Ben Gordon based on quickness alone. If BG had at least 4 inches added to his height, then we're talking at least Dale Ellis (anyone remember that sharpshooter?) or Michael Redd here. That would be awesome and worth that kind of salary.
Are you insane, Ellis is ten times the player that Gordon is. Ellis is a basketball player, Gordon should be playing streetball. Gordon will receive the midlevel exception at most if he becomes unrestricted, maybe just over from a team with cap room to get him from a team without cap room.
I am not a Corey Maggette fan, but is Gordon anywhere near the basketball player that Maggette is, I don't think so, and Ellis is a better buy than Maggette.
Let the bum go, I will be stunned if we find a fool to sign and trade him with. Unless Thomas regains control of the Knicks.
Maybe Golden State will trade Ellis to the Bulls for Gordon, if they are equivalent as some of you fools suggest why not. Would they do it for Gordon and Hinrich, not. Deng for Ellis, not. Gordon and Deng, probably not. The only Bull who might get you Ellis is Rose.
All you nut jobs who want to trade Tyrus for overpaid, and over the hill guys like Marion and Odom are short sighted fools. Especially with Rose on board, now is not the time to give up on Thomas, this may be the year he blows up. Trading either Deng or Gooden for value might be the best move so that Thomas can be given the starting role full time with no looking over his shoulder. He might be a better 3 than 4. Pippen and Grant didn't become starter quality players until their third years, and they were both 4 year college guys when they entered the league, Thomas would still be a senior in college this year, so give the kid his shot and some time.
The only Bulls that I would not trade right now are Rose, Thomas, Thabo and Noah. Everybody else should be on the table. I was screaming before the draft to trade any combination of Deng, Hinrich, Gordon and Gooden to Miami for the Beasely pick, we should still pursue this deal. I would also look to pry Mayo from Memphis useing the same bait. I would love to see a backcourt of Rose and Mayo, or a frontcourt of Thomas and Beasely. Memphis does not have an obvious need for any of the Bulls players, but Miami could use them all, and be a contender in the east immediately, but as usual Paxson doesn't have the brass to even think about such moves.
Ricky responds: I was with you until...
No. No no no no no. I love Tyrus. I do. But the man is clearly a power forward, not a 3. His value comes in his ability to alter shots defensively from the weak side, and to use his quickness when he gets the ball near the rim to blow by people and throw it down. He has no handle at all, he's no 3-point threat, and he's not a good passer- NBA 3's have to do all those things. The 15ish foot jumper he started to develop last season will serve him great as a 4, and that's where the Bulls have to play him. Keep Gooden, have Tyrus be the first big off the bench this year. That's a fine way to develop him.
Repeating myself here:
I don't care how many points Gordon can score, especially if the game is already out of hand. The fact of the matter is that he gives up an equal amount of points at the other end of the court.
He can't defend worth a lick, and has trouble hanging onto the ball, which only translates into ... MORE POINTS FOR THE OTHER TEAM!
For 50 million smackers they should lose this loser, and let someone else eat his over priced minutes.
Question about posting - I took a few days away - Is this site presently, not just Roman's blog, but the Sun-Times site set up to only receive comments or postings at a particular time for a blog entry by a columnist?
If the column is two days old or more can some of you people still post to it? Or even read the previous comments? All I get is an error.
Thanks
Gordon is a gifted scorer - nothing else. You cannot compare him to Ellis who is three years younger and has a lot of room to grow in the NBA. Gordon and Deng are not "young players" anymore, they have had plenty of time to grow on the job, and they both backslid last year. Sign and trade both of them.
Sign and trade Gordon for a 4 or 5 who can score on the block. Gordon is a 6th man who wants to start. No way. Heinrich and Deng still have upside as does Steph. It is too bad we couldn't have sign and traded Gordon and others for Brand.
Does the fact that there haven't been any rumors about teams breaking down doors to make Gordon an offer that would force the Bulls to either match or do a sign and trade deal tell you anything Keith? It should tell BG he isn't as good as he thinks he is.
I strongly believe Gordon is a much better player than he has shown so far. And if the Bulls trade him, he will show everyone that he is one of the top guards in the league. Paxson knows that too. And if anyone knows anything about the Bulls, it is that many of the players that were traded to other teams have gone on to become better than they showed while with the Bulls. Elton Brand and Tyson Chandler are a few to name. I believe a big part of the reason Gordon can't expand or perfect his game is because of the way the team has been coached. The only way a team can become great is to play great as a team. They have to learn to play team ball. That is why having a good coach is necessary. If the coach can form the team into one that can perform as one, everyone would play better that they have been. The Bulls have a lot of talented players. Please keep Ben Gordon! If he gets on a team that know how to play great team ball, he will become a bona-fide NBA star. I said it first.
unfortunately, there are no game changers or blue chippers out there that would be gotten for what the Bullshave - or need. However, that may work out in the Bulls favor if they bein to look at Deng in a different light. Up to now his only dimension has been shooting the mid range jumper,but their other needs are in the post and if somehow he can diversify and create some kinds of mismatches with that 6'9 frame, these Bulls might have what they need on their roster.
trade Deng and gordon and nocioni for a star.
thats a pretty good deal. keep hinrich because he can play D.
Rose/hinrich
Thabo/Larry
STAR PLAYER/nichols
gooden/tyrus
Noah.gray
WareC
The Hallmark of any great team in almost any sport is defence.
Look back as far as the Doberman Defence of the Bulls dynasty, or as recently as the Celtic's latest championship ...
Defence was key, and defence is something that Gordon doesn't have a clue about.
He's like a seive out there, and he'll NEVER be a bona-fide NBA star.
He'll be a role player at best.
Wow! the Bulls should just keep Gordon because who will score in his absence? Deng can't carry the load IF he's resigned. I like Gordon as the 6th man anyway because Rose can be more comfortable knowing he has a shooter on the floor with him occasionally. I rather trade Kirk Hinrich because he's more easier to free up for a legit big man whom can score. Which big man, I don't know. I like Deandre Jordan and Tyrus combo in the front court, why not gamble, he has a lot of tools. Trade Hinrich for Mobley and Jordan (LA clippers), that sound good.
Wow these Kirk lovers, if he could lead then they would have drafted Beasley or made a draft deal. Now a shooting guard must first take his man off the dribble to the rim, which include free throw attempts. Who on the bulls can create probably Hughes. WHY is Drew Gooden not mention as a nice addition in low post,he's 6"10 and a double d man. TRADE BEN,KIRK,& DENG,FOR CARMLEO OR T.MAC. Maybe, DENG AND KIRK FOR BEASLEY AND S.MARION.JUST TRADE SOMEBODY, PLEASE!
"He has no handle at all, he's no 3-point threat, and he's not a good passer- NBA 3's have to do all those things."
Ricky - are you describing Tyrus, or the team's current SF, Luol Deng?
The reason I'd tend to agree with BigWay regarding Tyrus' prospects as a SF in the NBA is, while he's certainly lacking in some necessary skill areas, he's got the right body and athleticism for the position. At 6'8" and around 210 lbs. he isn't really a PF, regardless of how high he can jump. His overall quickness would be an asset at SF, with players like Lebron and Tayshaun on the regular schedule. At PF he'll only get beat up (and we've all seen how he handles even the least bit of pain). As he showed in the summer league, Tyrus has the potential to be a scorer. He'll get up and down the court, put back on rebounds and hit the occasional jumper. He may not be a traditional SF, but what he can give you is invaluable at any spot. The main thing is, he'll play defense, which is more than you can say for the Bulls' current starter at the 3...
the bulls should have gotten beasley. his stats far exceeds rose in all depts. or they could've traded their first pick along with tyrus thomas to miami for their 2nd pick & shawn marion. it was clear that miami wanted beasley all along. maybe the bulls can still make something out of this if they can trade ben gordon & thomas to miami for shawn marion. pax can't handle his job
Wow. some great opinions here. Here's mine as a Bulls fan. The team would be NUTS to pay Gordon that type of money. Having an undersized 2 guard that can't play D, matching up against the other teams top scorers??? i think not. he turned down 5 years/$57 mill last year and he played worse. No reason at all to offer him more. You can get better more well-rounded players for that kind of money. If they try to sign and trade him they will find little market because other teams know better. the free agency list, reserve roster, and d-league are full of guys that can score and do nothing else. As bad as this sounds, i would just let him walk.
Deng, on the other hand, would be worth the money. Im not completely sold on Deng as the starting 3 of the future, but hes good enough for now. He plays D and has some post ability. Even if they sign and trade him they will see some much better offers than from Gordon.
they should definitely keep Kirk, just not as a starter, but Kirk is the only guard they have that can play both the 1 and 2, and he can play defense. Just gotta be a more consistent shooter. besides if they trade Kirk over Gordon, who will back up at the point?
LEE: while your trade scenarios are completely absurd, I will agree with this....JUST TRADE SOMEBODY!!!
Deng is the only trully tradeable commodity we have only because of his size and hype (kobe wanted to play with him). That is why a sign and trade works for him. Gordon is a TOP NBA scorer. He averages MORE points than most starters and he comes off the bench. He shoots a high percentage from the line, (which he gets to) because he goes to the basket with his tear drop. That is the mark of any true scorer - getting to the line. And he does it all - with teams knowing he is "one dimensional", and with no star on the court. Gordon has a huge responsibility on the Bulls because he is their go to guy and he has to handle the ball in the 4th because our "captain" cant do it (and thats his PRIMARY job/responsibility). People were gambling at the top of the key with our guards because of the BALL HANDLING. I used to say size, but Chris Paul and Jeremy Pargo proved that small guards can get it done. Gordon has adequate ball handling, but explosive scoring. He is what he is, but come 4 quarter - when the game is on the line - we have a chance simply because we have him, and I don't care who the other team has. His value is like Bobby Jenks. There is a thing about playing under pressure that neutralizes even an allstar. See Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant for reference - both champions, but mostly because of who they rolled with. Very few can handle the pressure and that makes them special. While others are scrambling around and flailing about, they are cool and collected. And with the gall of a mob hit man...they take the shot and look into the camera with a wry grin. Clipboards fly, opposition breaks, fans cheer. Gentlemen, you don't get rid of that.
kurt hinrich sucks get rid of him there are no more paxson's in the nba the bulls resigned that bum with no problem and where will the bulls go with him as a leader. Ben Gordon has ben more of a contributor than hinrich so why they haven't signed him I don't understand, deng has changed his game and has and will always be injury prone so I would let him go unless he goes back to what he did before last year when they said he was going to be this superstar that I don't see, rose is the answer to the bulls problem the real replacement for jason williams
The Bulls have to keep Hinrich. Rose can't play 48 minutes a game, and theres not a single other player capable of running the team besides Captain Kirk. Hinrich is a natural 2 guard anyway, and can actually play great defense. Keep Deng, he's still going to be a great player...still has lots of potential. Pax absolutely must get rid of Gordon though. If he wants to sign the qualifying offer, let him. He'll be a sixth man this year, 20-30 mins a game, and be gone next year. His ridiculous decisions have constantly scored more points for the other team than he's ever scored for the Bulls. Take anything you can get for him...he's a virus.
Have they traded Hughes yet? He F IN G SUCKS!! and will be a cancer on thge Bench..
I agree with dude..
who will score in BG's absence?
TIm?
Keith just one simple question....when was the last time Gordon hd the ball at the end of the game with a chance to hit the winning shot and actually did hit it?
With the addition of Rose, Gordon is the odd man out. He's a head case, and the Bulls should see what they can get for him. I'm telling you, after the season is a few weeks old, the Bulls' starting backcourt will be Rose and Thabo.
Gordan was a 6th man last yr why would you pay him that much. He can not defend so what if he scores 20 plus points if the guy he is defending scores 20 plus points too then gordans 20 plus points are meaningless. Oh and if the guy he is defending usually does not score 20 plus a game thats bad and thats what usually happens. They need to offer deng that 6 yr 66 mill contract tell gordao take the 50 mill 5 yr contract. If he does not want to tell him to try to find a trade or sign the 1 yr tender.
I think after a couple of years of believing that BG will lead us to the promise land, reality set in. Thank God BG did not take the money last year! BG is who we thought he was, a 6th man shooter against the 2nd team of the opposition, period. He needs to be used in a trade or get Williams to let him use his motorcycle.... Deng is another story. He is still extremely young, is worth the 60 mil for 5/6 years and solid at his position, with still tons of upside in the future.
On the Hinrich front, he is still the 2nd best point guard, plays defense and there is no one else on the team. Rose is nicked and who would be playing if this was the regular season?
If we can get Okafor for BG and maybe Noce, I say do it. I am still out on tyrus, so young and attitude galore. He has until the deadline to prove himself, if not, he's gone....
I like the team, but it is so young and now a young coach, i see more growing pains for the Bulls.
I see a lot of posts desiring to see the Bulls sign Gordon to a one-year offer so he can play with Rose and hopefully become a potent 1-2 punch, but they are forgetting one big thing: What exactly is Rose going to accomplish in his rookie season that would lead you to believe he and Grodon are the twin hammers of Thor?
Without a reliable center (or for that matter, PF) to occupy and score in the paint (read: draw double teams), defenders are going to gravitate to the outside to put the clamps on Rose and keep him from initiating the offense. So how is Rose supposed to penetrate and/or distribute under those circumstances?
If I can figure out that the Bulls' only decent players are Rose, Deng and Nocioni, then I'm sure NBA gurus have it figured out and have figured out a way to make sure all three are accounted for.
JR Smith is a much better comparison to Ben Gordon. Both are shooters who can'd even spell D. Averages are quite close too. Guess what as of yet no team has contacted JR Smith yet and he is a FA! That is what Gordon is worth. Nothing, cause that is how much I would pay to see him play. Also Ellis is a Game changer and you could argue so is Gordon but giving up tons of points isn't a strong negotiating tactic.
Paxson Sucks and so does his soft ass team of losers. I fully expect the entire team from last season to be back as Paxson has yet to learn from a mistake. Can you say Trainwreck! Just wonder how long it takes before the great Stand Pax tries to make Cousin Vinny the fall guy? Maybe his Birthday or Thanksgiving... Boy Pax is so classy...
Weight the stats as a grain of salt because the NBA is mostly a dog's league. Too often the games get out of whack & the players dog the game. It's so obvious some times. What really matters is what a guy does in a close game.
When the game is on the line who on the Bulls do you want taking the shots? BG.
The opposition knows this as well. BG succeeds as a 6th man because the oppositions preparation vs him is naturally weaker than when he starts. By drafting Rose, the Bulls can put BG back into the 6th man role.
BG is worth whatever the 6th man award is worth. Offer him a pay for performance deal. Give him a $54M/6yr base. As a 6th man it's about wins & loses so pay him an extra $50K for every gm he plays in that the team wins.
A lot of these comments I am reading about Gordon. Gordon is what he has been his whole life a scorer, that what he did in college and the pros. I am reading crazy stuff Ellis is a scorer just I Gordon. And he sould get pay equal or better than Ellis check the career numbers. Paxson can't fix the Hinrick or Hughs contract by low balling Gordon he never tried to work out a deal it was take it or leave it 5 yrs 50 million. The best thing that will come out of these is this will be paxson last year if Gordon & Deng don't sign ext and we still don't have a low post scorer.Paxson has 6 guards on the team.
How could you not like a scorer on an offensively challenged team? I know I like the guy on our team, even if it's just for his point output, but he is, and always will be a 6th man. Until Rose shows he can institute playmaking skills and create 'EASIER' scoring chances for all those around him, we need GORDON, it's that simple. Does he deserve first team dollar; absolutely not!
The Bears incentive laden contract to an unproven receiver in Hester is a prime example of how it should be done. Here's another guy who's the scoring on an offensively challenged team but wishes to be paid as a receiver. That's like Ben Gordon asking to be paid as a 'DEFENDER' and 'ASSIST MAN'.
Hester got his guaranteed worth as an instant offense TD man (and rightfully so) but must prove he can go the yard in his other role to collect the rest of the booty.
Have Gordon up his turnover/assist ratio, outscore his man in court time, give up the ball more during crunch time, and then talk worth.
As is the case with many parents these days, I blame the owners and agents for creating these situations in the first place.
Play Ball!
I can't believe Paxson found a way to muck up this off season. He had two very clear choices and only one other reasonable option:
1. Find a draft day or before trade for Hinrich and/or Hinrich/Gordon (for example for a mid teen draft pick for each, or at least one)and draft Derrick Rose.
2. Draft Beasley.
Couple all of this by giving Deng his money (a real talent, not the one trick pony Gordon is).
(other): Trade draft pick for a super stud, or an all-star and a draft pick.
What does he do? He picks Derrick Rose giving us Hughes, Hinrich, Gordon, Rose, Sefolosha at guard with Curry and Shannon Brown also on the roster. He now has zero negotiating leverage because everyone knows he really needs to make a deal. We now have Gordon play out his one year and lose him for nothing. And the very worst is that he puts kid gloves on the #1 freaking pick, has him lose his confidence and desire and blow the kid's career. You don't draft someone number f*&*^# 1, then sit them on the bench behind Freaking slow joe Kirk, I can't shoot that well and couldn't break me down (34 years and slow) off the dribble Hinrich.
Terrible. I'm a lifelong Chicago Bulls fan since Reggie Theus days but this is almost more than I can stand. If he can't fix this mess I have to find another team or give up on basketball.
Tim my friend, its about having a CHANCE to win. Gordon has shot us back into games so many times. Game winning shots are rare, and you have to have someone with the stones to take and hit the shot. Gordon has had to scramble to create his own shots because - Skiles 4th quarter plays - and Kirk's point guarding. And all with every defender KNOWING he is the only one out there to do something about it. Here is the kicker gentlemen - none of these guys can do what Gordon does! The only one on the team with his kind of heart is NOCH. Another guy you do not move if you are interested in winning in the playoffs. GORDON - will take pressure off Rose, not Kirk. And Rose can take the pressure off GORDON - just like with New Orleans.
Deng is a good small forward who has a great midrange touch. He is almost a 7ftr. But everything he can do, you can get from Noah, Thomas, and Gooden thus making him the ideal player to trade. Its him or Gooden for sure. No team is going to trade with us for anyone except Gooden or Deng. Untouchable IMHO are Rose, Thomas, Sefaloosha, Gordon (athletes). I would put everyone else on the block for a starting center or star shooting guard.
Possible sign and trades: Andre Igodala or Josh Smith
Current Free Agents Pax has to consider: Michael Finley, David Harrison, Michael Doleac, Adonal Foyle, Theo Ratliff, Carlos Arroyo, Darrell Armstrong. Finley is a longshot, but maybe coming home might be a consideration. We need a backup pointguard to replace Duhon and hopefully Kirk if a deal can be made. A veteran like Armstrong would be great to help Rose get acclimated.
Anthony hit the nail on the head. Gordon is to the Bulls what Hester is to the Bears. How many other teams feature their leading scorer yr after yr off the bench?
Like Hester, Gordon has proven to have both a good attitude & durability. Those are qualities that coaches & GM's look for & inflate Gordon's price above his stats.
As I said before the Bulls need Gordon more than Gordon needs the Bulls. Gordon should be the highest paid player on the team.
Keith, we obviously know you're sold on BG and that's fine. I even agree with you that he's a good scorer and that he can hit in the clutch. He's proven that in the past, I know that and I've seen it also. I don't hate the guy as a player, but for a former #3 overall? I expected more explosive ability and consistency. The problem is that the league has already figured him out. He can be neutralized now. He's not going to average 25+ pts a game for any team. Yes, he'll occasionally drop the 35 point game where he just shoots lights out, but he's not going to do that consistently not because he's not good enough, but more because he's undersized and because the NBA teams that play good defense will or can shut him down.
But even then, let's realistically look at the team overall. I suggested a sign-and-trade scenario for BG, but there doesn't appear to be any takers out there from other teams. Case closed. What does that tell you? BG wants a contract similar to Monta Ellis and he will not go down. Knowing BG, he probably expects a bigger contract than Ellis. He's already "threatened" about possibly playing overseas. So seriously Keith, do you really expect Reinsdorf to "reward" the man with a 6-year, $60+ million contract? Seeing how much you adore BG as a player, perhaps you would, Keith, but no way Reinsdorf/Pax will agree to that, nor do I see BG ever agreeing to an incentive-laden contract.
My suggestion (although I don't see the Bulls going this direction): the team is already in rebuilding mode even though they will never admit it publicly. Let Deng and BG sign the tender offer and let them go after this upcoming season. The Bulls continue to rebuild through lottery picks and hopefully Pax or whoever the next puppet GM is by next season can get the draft right for once. Clear out all the wasted cap space which includes Deng, BG and Hughes after the 2008/2009 season. I like Gooden at his current expiring salary, so try to re-sign him cheap again at $6-7 mil per year again if possible. And then arm yourself for the big free agency at 2010 for LeBron, Kobe or Wade. Unfortunately, I don't see the Bulls going this direction. They will likely sign 1 of the 2 between Deng or Gordon to an extended contract and I have the feeling it will be Deng.
And by the way, that Turkish Center that the Bulls traded up for in the 2nd round that they were so high on during draft day signed a 5-year contract with his current team overseas. 5 years. Another waste and another example of poor draft management outside of a lucky ping pong #1 obvious draft pick. What a poor job this Bulls management team has done to sell this team to the die hard Bulls fans. To the casual fans they can play as suckers, but not the die hards like us.
Yo Keith:
When you hitch your wagon to a horse s#!t player you really mean business.
I doubt that you have a "thing" for guys named Ben, (not that there's anything wrong with that) but I can't for the life of me figure out what you find so fascinating about a one dimentional player who can't hang onto the ball, can't defend, barely rebounds, and never ever nails that crunch time, game winning dagger.
Let him go so he can help Cleveland win a championship, the same way Wallace did.
Keith...
this is where you and I agreed originally and this launched our friendship...
you just cant teach someone how to be a GAMER.
you cant teach someone how to hit the big shot....let alone WANT TO TAKE IT.
That is one of the rarest things in Sports...
look at LeBron...
He dont want it!!
We will see, but I agree Guns of Navarro, with Jaun on Jaun and Keith my mother jamming long time Southside residin' Chicagoan for life!
Keith no one including myself disagrees with the fact that Gordon is a pure shooter but as Edgar pointed out the rest of the league has figured him out and adjusted. Yes he shot the team back into many games but at the same time turned the ball over at crucial spots after shooting the team back into the game. He'd put himself in a position to get trapped at the arc and instead of passing when he saw the trap coming he tried to split it and lose the ball or force up a poor shot. I like him as instant offense coming off the bench but he's not worth what he's asking.
wwpw6z.....ham operators call sign?
That is garbage. Amongst SG's in the NBA he was the 3rd best in the combination of (PPG/FG%/FT%/3PT%) in 2006-2007 & last yr he dropped to 4th best.
On a team with a true PG, Gordon might be the 2nd best SG in the NBA behind only Bryant. If Rose can live up to his billing as a true NBA PG, Gordon's an all-star.
You build a championship team with starters that excel at their positions. You pad your bench with players that do a lot of things well but don't excel at anything.
Ellis doesn't excel at anything. How does a player produce a 53%FGM, w a low 76%FT, & a dismal 23%3PT? By playing in the defensively challenged West that allows him to play big in the paint.
That is a player who's success/failure depends on matchups. Deng is a similar player. I would rather have a player like Gordon that can succeed regardless of the matchup.
Culzie - Thank You! Look at the finals. And of all the stars on the floor who shined the brightest? The guy with the stones and will to take the big shot. Not the one people call the next Mike. Not the one that does all the yelling, or the one with the pure shot; it was the one with HEART. Its a team game, but you have to have a player to put on his cape and soar above the rest. Pierce is not even the most talented (look at the stats), but we all know who was the big dawg in the finals. I believe Gordon has that ability. But its all water under the bridge now. I am anxious to see who Paxson will trade him for, or what team he ends up on.
Bulls also have to get rid of Nichols, Curry, Brown and Simmons, and get some bench players who can help. Waste of 4 good spots! Just pick up 4 European players. I cant lie, all I want to see now is Rose, Thomas and Gooden.
Its like MJ said to DC, when Doug suggested having Dave Corsine take the last second shot against Cleveland in the 1989 playoffs.
JUST GIMME THE F'ing BALL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCJXiE2_s9M&feature=related
*(note how doug runs around like he drew it up that way)..
what a Dbag....he shoulda been running over to beg Michael for ever doubting him.