Ozzie's right

The ambience, the ivy covered wall, the women in bikini tops in the bleachers, Bud-Light, the loveable loser tag with possible opportunities to be seen on national T.V. when ditching work, while holding (guzzling mostly) a cold one and on the cell phone is hard to beat.

Well, it is just fascinating to watch people not back a winner! Kinda like this year's election, but what the hell, I don't know anything!

Ozzie should close his pie-hole and fly under the radar for a while. He still has some tinkering to do with his batting order (like dropping Konerko lower and sitting Thome for the rest of May). Yes, they are in first, but in what seems to be a far more difficult division than the ones the Cubs play in. Ozzie, get your team ready for the rest of the season while you don't have the spotlight turned on you. No one "wins" the league in the first half of the season...

...unless it's the Cubs!

They are owned by a media company. It's a carnival atmosphere and has been since Ron Cey's days. Cubs fans are known for their inability to understand that the baseball season has at least three parts -- the season's first half, the second half and the playoffs. Cubs fans are delirious for the first part, drunk for the second part and (IF they get the oppty), surly during the playoffs (don't believe me? Look how they treated Bartman -- like Alou had even a remote chance to catch that ball - ha!).

Trust me, Dempster will wake up and max out at maybe 10 wins for the entire season. Lilly will get owned, and soon Wood will grow roots waiting to be called in to actually save a game. Zambrano will fight Soto in the clubhouse (but this time the catcher wins), Lou will kick dirt on an umpire, Soriano will hit .180 for the month of June, and Mark Cuban will buy the Cubs.

Cubs fans will still be delirious because this all takes place by the All-Star break.

Second half predictions to come.

I don't believe half of what Ozzie says but you guys are just as guilty as the rest of the local media on this one.
The White Sox win a game and you have a small recap while in the same edition you have a 2-page color spread about some stupid Cubs art that looked like it was drawn with crayons.
You give less ink to a Sox pitcher who takes a no hitter into the 9th inning than you do when Kerry Wood stinks up the place again.
The White Sox had not one but two Japanese players and you did not care yet you gush and dance when the Cubs sign one.
If Frank Thomas had played for the Cubs you would have been giving out color posters of him every day but since his pin strips were the wrong color you only mentioned him when things were going bad. He was a much better player than Sammy Sosa and you ignored him for most of his career.
The media rips a U.S. Cellular Field that really does not exist any longer while crying over a crumbling dump where the fans are far more obnoxious then just about any park in the league.
Here the Sox are less than 2 1/2 seasons removed from winning the World Series while the Cubs have not one it in 100 years and you act like the crowd on American Idol every time a Cub blows his nose.

Roman responds: You make some valid points, but then you lose some of the validity of your argument when you make so many generalities. We did give out color posters of Frank in black pinstripes. We've documented the fan problems at Wrigley, but we can't ignore the Ligue. We did make more noise about Fukudome than Iguchi.
Do you think there are more Cubs fans in this city than Sox fans? I'm not talking about Wrigley fans, I'm talking about Cubs fans. Every time we have an online poll, like we do now, Cubs fans always outnumber Sox fans.

So Roman, what you're saying is, because flubby fannies always out-number Sox fans in your polls, that definitively means there are more flubby faniies? You give your rag too much credit.

Roman responds: Hey, "flubby fannies," clever. All I did was ask, of all the real baseball fans in this city, are there more Cubs fans or Sox fans.

Roman, you know the history. The White Sox were the talk of the town & the Cubs barely an afterthought until the Tribune bought them around the same time JR opted for pay-per-view. That move by JR doomed the Sox perpetually because Harry jumped ship for WGN soon thereafter.

The Cubs had everything: media power, a huge MLB celebrity in the booth, & a major national cable network. Their winning improved, but their celebrity status skyrocketed.

A World Series bound Sox team was derailed by the strike. JR took most of the blame on the owner's side. After that nothing but a championship would bring the fan's back. As 2005 proved, even that was not enough to end the loathing of JR.

Chicago baseball fan's loathe JR like Sox fans loathe Moronitti. Both the Sox & the Times won't see their fortunes improve until these guys are shown the door.

Roman responds:
Do you think there are more Cubs fans in this city than Sox fans? I'm not talking about Wrigley fans, I'm talking about Cubs fans. Every time we have an online poll, like we do now, Cubs fans always outnumber Sox fans.
****************

To answer your question, YES! How many White Sox Fans are in Iowa, Wisconsin, Indiana and other surrounding states? How many come in bus loads to White Sox / Comiskey Park? (I refuse to call it Cellular Park!)

There are more Cub Fans if no more than the media advertising blitz which is one-sided in Chicago.

To let you know how one-sided, even though the Chicago White Sox were on their way to winning a championship in 2005, news outlet would still lead with the Cubs (this was late in the season as if you wanted to hear the losing score). (Who gave a rat a_ _ about those losers (at the time)...This is why there is animosity between the Fans of each club.

It is no different than a parent displaying partiality to one child over another, though one does every thing right to gain the attention of the parent.

Who's to say Wrigley fans are not voting? Roman, your point about on-line voting makes no sense.

To other Sox fans, I cancelled my subscription after this paper blew the doll incident out of proportion. Enough is enough with the tabloid garbage. It's just not in the sports section either.

Roman responds: And I assume you're not watching ESPN or reading USA Today because they reported on the doll stuff, too. Please. And I don't think some of those Wrigley fans care about sports and wouldn't be going on a paper's Web sports page.

OWSF:

Do you mean there's a "White Sox Nation" that we've overlooked?

For what it's worth, in one of our recent client newsletters, we asked our clients to help us resolve our annual internal debate about the most popular Chicago-based major league baseball team. The Cubs won by a 62-38 margin. Most of the clients we surveyed were outside Illinois. In fact, most were outside this country. Most were also lawyers so I'm not sure whether we can actually say we surveyed humans.

Now, if we had asked which Chicago based major league baseball team plays the BEST BASEBALL, we might have gotten a very different answer. But like the Presidency, this was a popularity contest and the one that is constantly in the public eye won.

Did ESPN or USA Today plaster it on the front page of the paper and have every writer comment about it? You're right, I don't pay too much attention to ESPN. If I wanted in-depth Red Sox/Yankee coverage I would subscribe to a N.Y. paper and the Boston Globe.

Even though I cancelled, I drop by here every now and then because I like Cowley, DeLuca, and even you, Roman. At least you acknowledge the biased coverage on these two teams.

Roman responds: I'd be willing to bet you that either you didn't cancel your subscription or you weren't a subscriber in the first place. Nobody cancels over something like that. Eighty-five percent of the people who say they cancel because of Mariotti comment on his stuff a month later.
Keep reading brother.

as a White Sox fan I could care less if anyone else notices
its better to have a WS in the last 100 years and not get noticed than it is to not have one, but the media pays attention to you.
we're the 2nd team in this city and thats the way it is, but that doesn't mean that we don't have loyal fans or that we are not a good team.
Ozzie might be right, but hes wrong to get angry about it
hes wrong to balme Chicago because I know all you hear is "ohh those loyal Cubs fans they support their team even though they don't win"
but there are White Sox fans that are as loyal and some more loyal
it never had and will not bother me that this newspaper or any other does not pay attention to the Sox

I wouldn't be surprised if more people simply say they're Cub fans, yet your poll is unable to decypher magnitude of fandom.

And while I realize 'die-hard' also can't be truly decyphered, I'm confident from their blood, the Sox have more of those.

Speaking of which, this week it'll be nice to be able to start going to bed again before 12:30.
Notice there was no choice in that statement.
Staying up was something I both wanted and had to do.

Roman responds: And before anyone accuses me of bias, I grew up on the East Chicago, Ind. as a Sox fan. My first game was the top half of a day-night doubleheader at Comiskey against the Oakland A's. And to date myself, I sat in the left-field stands and watched Joe Rudi play left for the A's.

....so you got to watch Vida Blue pitch? And Bert Campaneris play ss (is that right - I can't remember)? Weren't Sal Bando and Rollie Fingers part of the A's then?

Roman responds: Indeed. John "Blue Moon" Odom, Gene Tenace. Great team.

everybody knows most cubs "fans" are as fake as a 3 dollar bill. how many times have you gone into a bar and seen a wave a cubs jerseys. a few of the real fans will notice and cheer a good play and than the fakes will follow and cheer like sheep. if your gonna say your a sox fan you probably are. the cubs are like a social thing you know like a concert or something. its like people go to the concert for the concert but not for the band.

hey if ozzie wasn't with the sox would any one care

HEY!!!...my first game was against the A's too,
but it was at Wrigley Opener, right after Dave Kingman got traded to them, and it was soooo cold that everyone was throwing snowballs at Kingman!!!

Where in the world does the comment come from on how tough the AL Central is? Detroit and Cleveland are nowhere near where the "experts" thought they would be, and the division is barely mediocre without them. The White Sox lead the division with weak hitting and average pitching. Meanwhile, the so-called "weak" NL Central has Houston on a winning streak and has had St. Louis in first place with a fine record. Right now, the NL Central is far more competitive and difficult than the AL Central.

Year after year I watch the back pages of the Sun-Times highlight the Northsiders ahead of our beloved blue-collar White Sox. Tell me something new? It's a white-collar, yuppie, college student, home doin' nothin' during the day love affair with the Cubbies. Then again, everybody loves the underdog, and I believe 100 years of futility definitely qualifies the Clarkison Wavelanders.

As for the props, another W.S.C. should make the White Sox feel right at home, again.

Yes Roman, there are more Cub fans in Chicago than Sox fans.
Just like they are more people watching “Dancing With The Stars” than are watching The History Channel.
Mindless entertainment for the masses vs. substance.

I give you 10 bonus points for a Joe Rudi reference!
Damn. Now I feel old.

Roman, there are more people who want to see the Cubs win, than Cubs fans. When I worked in Homewood, people would come to me and ask How did Sammy do? Sometimes never caring if they won or not. Some were even at the game, but asked me when they drove home.

People would say, I'm a Twins fan, or I'm a Yankee fan, but I want to see the Cubs get off the schneid(yes, they used that word).

Still think the Sox have more fans(in the true sense) than the Cubs, but more people want the Cubs to get off the 100 year itch.

Personally, I like real fans who know their baseball over the fair weather's anyday.

Just like the chant in basketball went from Beat LA, to Beat the Bulls. Not a fair weather person is me. (just a little Yoda)

Roman...very good,responsible, facts..we are all Mariotti fans deep down. However, I would like to point out that he is on ATH everyday. Even if one were to cancel the Times, they would still be subject to his clammering on that tabloid station. Therefore, could still comment while claiming to have canceled the Times. Why would anyone cancel such a readable paper anyway(boy, do I miss it up here). I am still more pi%%ed that the best you(Sun-Times) could come up with is Richard Roper. 'Ebert and Modrowski' would definitely be a proclamation of credibility. I see Roger really like the new Indiana Jones movie, what do you think?

Just like they are more people watching “Dancing With The Stars” than are watching The History Channel. -Philtration

I don't know....have you seen 'Axmen' yet?......great way to fill the void while waiting for 'Iceroad Truckers' to start. Perfect compliment to 'Deadliest catch'.......don't get me started on 'Americas Port', or 'Parking Wars' (except for the episode where the whiny Cubs fans embarassed us all.) History,Discovery,and A&E are the real stars. You really should dance with them one evening. You won't be disappointed.
Glad to see Sox are doing well......and the Cubs are even better...............................woohoo.

Roman responds: My new favorite TV show is "Locked Up Abroad" on National Geographic network. Good stuff.

Chuck - do I know you? I grew up in Flossmoor!

As I have always said, Sox fans are true fans of the game of baseball, most Cubs fans are "Cubs fans" to be trendy. I recently went to 2 Cubs games with a friend who proclaims to be a Cubs fan. She mostly yelled "Let's go Cubbies" at times that didn't make sense, stared at Mark DeRosa, whom she's convinced will marry her on the spot if only he could catch a glimpse of her, and wanted to go get more beer in the bottom half of every inning. I am a rare breed in Chicago, not only do I cheer for both teams (probably due to my parents mixed Cubs/Sox marriage), but I think it's stupid to pick one or the other. If someone asks, I always say I'm a Sox fan though, but that's mostly because I don't want to be associated with the clueless and obnoxious people at Wrigley that give Cubs fans a bad name. I'm not saying there are no obnoxious fans at U.S. Cellular, but it's such a different vibe there. And I'll be there tonight for a great game!

Anne, if you are reading this, go ahead, make my day.

"Philtration" hit it just about "on the nose" with his "Dancing with the Stars" vs. "History Channel" remark (although, I actually I would have preferred something even more inane than DWTS to make it the best analogy. I love "The History Channel" and just about anything educational. For me, that's value. Movies, plays, and other TV shows frequently get high marks by critics-in-the-know over what the masses want. However, that said, this is a tough year to express that point with the Cubs as they truly do seem to have a quality team on the field. Still, it's true year in and year out.

I've gone through all the anger and suffering a typical Sox fan has had to endure throught the years. FINALLY, I recently figured out that it doesn't matter. It actually adds to the charm of being a Sox fan, especially the extremely rare one on the other side of the country. By the way, when I tell folks I'm from Chicago, they ASSUME that I'm a Cubs fan.

Amazing. They claim to have more "real baseball fans" yet the only games they show up with any regularity are the ones that have either A) a lame, moronic fireworks display afterwords) B)the Cubs playing in them. Fireworks = real fans!!!
I've got to admit, I get a kick out of the worn out "all Cubs fans are from out of state" argument. Yep over 26,000 season ticket packages sold, all out of towners I guess. Wow, those out of towners must be decent fans. And what does proximity to the team have to do with being a good fan, anyway? People from Iowa can't be good fans? And then the "Wrigley fans" debate. If people are only fans of the ballpark, how come the Cubs beat the Sox in TV ratings and road attendance about 95% of the time? People watch games on TV because of the bars outside of Wrigley? OK. Fans go to road games because of the ambience of Wrigley. Um, sure.
I kind of enjoy the whining by Sox "fans" about the Cubs treatment from the media. Their complete obsession with all things Cubs is getting kind of creepy, though.
If you are going to use lies in your arguements, at least come up with something new instead of the worn out "out of towners" and "Wrigley fans" copouts. Those are about as original and compelling as a fireworks display is to anyone over the age of four.

Roman, aren't you an editor? If so, then do something about it. You actually have some control over the so-called unfair treatment. Give the Sox more coverage than the Cubs. Give them the back page. Give them the front page, like you did a couple weeks back. Do you really think Cubs fans would whine or start measuring the amount of space given to their team? No they're too busy watching THEIR team play and enjoying the early season success of THEIR team to obsess over such trivial matters or worry about teams in another league.

Do you seriously think Cubs fans should be buzzing, or even care, about the White Sox because they are three games over .500?

Roman, let's be frank. Since Moronitti joined the Times what are the daily sales? I'm not talking subscriptions here. My guess is it's a steady decline.

Simple rule of marketing: make the customer feel good about the purchase. Do you think Moronitti's constant barrage of negative pieces accomplish that? It's not just the Sox any more. Even his beloved Cubs are victims of his sleaze now & then.

My advice to the Times is to bury his pieces further in the sports section & give his current spot to a more upbeat writer that prefers to trash our foes more than our teams. Then just sit back & count the daily sales. I'm sure they'll improve.

Why did Mike McCaskey step down from the Bears? Because he became a perpetual target for loathing the team. JR has become that for the Sox & he needs to do the same.

Roman responds: Juan, interesting post. First of all, circulation has been declining at every paper in the country except the Wall Street Journal, and maybe USA Today. The problem is people are reading news on the Internet and aren't buying papers.
There are a lot of people who don't like Jay and read him, and there are a lot of people who like what he writes and read him. And there are a lot of people who don't like him and don't read him. If those groups are broken down into equal thirds, that's a winning proposition for us. I don't know if it does break down like that, but I'll tell you this, no other columnist generates the intensity he does.
And I"m not saying I agree with everything he writes, or that I haven't had my share of screaming matches wit him. I have.
And as far as JR, you want him to step down? Who do you think has been his biggest critic?

I'm a Sox fan and have to recognize the facts:

- the Cubs are the better team
- there are many more Cub fans in this town than Sox.

Sooo...no great surprise at the difference in buzz.

As far as the Sox playing in the tougher division, great story in the NY Daily News about the impacts of roid and amphetamin testing. Not surprising the AL central (Tigers, Indians) has seen the biggest power shortage. LOTS of "skinnier" players these days. LOTS less home runs. Anyone seen Hafner, V Martinez, Sheffield, Pudge, etc??

Why are you considering the AL Central so tough? Each team has major flaws...Sox offense (and at times pitching), Detroit pitching, Cleveland Offense, Twins talent, KC talent...this is a good division of 70-85 win teams for sure but no great teams...wouldn't you have to look to the AL East at the defending champs and four teams at or above .500 and where the New York Freagin' Yankees are in last (for now). Or maybe the NL East where 4 teams are over .500 or (and I know its suicide to say) the NL Central. No team in the six deep team division is worse than four games under .500. I just think the AL Central is getting credit for the past. What have they done this year to keep that beleif...Your thoughts?

Roman is right. But its a CUB town and I except that. Most folks are Commercial Lovin Cub Fans and in a way, thats great because I cannot stand phonies. Most only like the colors and the atmosphere. I like the Sox for the opposite reasons. Because people who attend and watch don't insult the game with cartoonish fakeness. No other baseball team in the league is like the CUBS. Not Atlanta, Boston or Yankees. All those teams do is win championships and play good hardnosed baseball. The SOX are like those teams, and need to stay that way. If you want to watch a movie - go up north - where there are girls and beer - and ronnie woo woo. 1st PLACE in the CENTRAL trumps everything, and only a real newspaper would know that.

I'm not sure the AL Central is as weak as everyone believes. The AL Central teams are all playing poorly, except the Sox, who have been playing so-so outside of their last 10 games. The AL Central may not be able to turn it around because the AL is a tough league -- heck even Tampa is playing well this year.

By contrast, most of the NL Central is playing way over their heads. The Cardinals have a make-shift lineup and no pitching staff (their #1 and #2 starters are on the "extended" disabled list). I'm keeping my fingers crossed (and toes, too) that the staff holds up, but it's a long, long season. The R-Astros looked like an overmatched team last night (against that "fireballer" Ted Lilly). So much for their thunder. Milwaukee has pitching, hitting and fielding problems. Cincinnati has Dusty and Pittsburgh is 1-8 against the Cubs. Only the Cubs are playing at the level expected of them, but their pitching staff will eventually let them down.

The other advantage the NL Central enjoys over the AL Central is that it's in the National League. They get to play the Giants, Padres and Rockies. Arizona is 20-5 in its Division and 8-11 elsewhere.

Just a note on the AL Central and the NL Central. Looking at it there are four teams in the NLC that are in the top ten in the MLB in runs scored, while the Sox, yes the Sox, lead the ALC ranked 16th in the MLB. Why give credit where credit isn't do. And I don't want to hear "they are facing better pitching." We all know that not why the Sox offense has been inconsistent. Can anyone say old age?

Dubs' Divisional rankings
1)Al East
2)NL East
3)NL Central
4)AL Central
5)AL West
6)NL West

I've got to admit, I get a kick out of the worn out "all Cubs fans are from out of state" argument. Yep over 26,000 season ticket packages sold, all out of towners I guess. Wow, those out of towners must be decent fans.

Posted by: TTH | May 20, 2008 09:31 AM
***************

TTH, review the link:

http://www.gotickets.com/seating_charts/baseball/wrigley_field.php

Now explain this OVER 26,000 season ticket holders thing to me again - who are NOT all out of towners? Seating capacity is only 39,000 - which was increased in the last decade or so because of Sammy Ball & Kerry Woods, before falling out of grace with Cub fans. I have to presume these faithful 26,000 you speak of just give their tickets to charities in places that are out of town, where those individuals who get to come to Wrigley are recepients of generous hearts, huh? NO EXCHANGE of CURRENCY for a ticket at inflated prices, right? If so, why the nice ticket brokerages who sells sports tickets to Cub games (and other sporting events as well) or those who stand outside Wrigley selling their season tickets?

Y'all just some great fans of the game, huh? Now that is what I get a kick out of when Cubbie Fans try to defend it. I understand fans will do it, but don't try to embellish the truth as though all 26,000 season ticket holders show up faithfully each game, when knowing the tickets are being sold for a profit. (Do not start this is a captialism at work, or plain simple supply and demand which needs to be serviced.
****

Do you mean there's a "White Sox Nation" that we've overlooked?
Posted by: Seedy Backslash | May 19, 2008 03:36 PM

By the way Seedy, I outta back-slash you one for asking, but that wouldn't be righteous in "White Sox Nation!"

I wish I had more time to read on, but unfortunately I am at work. However the more I do, the more I want to comment on all the different points being made in here. Very very intriguing. OK so getting to MY point. I love the idea that there are more 'die-hard' Sox fans than cubs fans. Also loving the fact that there are WAY TOO MANY fair weather fans of the cubs or just people who aren't fans, but mere followers because they're best bu** buddy is a fan. My one simple point is this. If the cub fans we're even close to 'Die Hard' the phrase bi-soxual would never have been born. And may it live forever.

That just may the most pointless post ever on Full Court Press.

And that's saying a lot, considering this blog.

There is one aspect of White Sox nation Cub fans overlook: the logo. The White Sox logo is far more visible in music videos than the Cubs.

As for the AL vs NL debate, please. When was the last time the NL won an all-star game? When was the last time the NL came out ahead in inter-league play? It's the AAAA league is what it is.

What did the Twins, Sox, Tribe, & Tigers do over the last 4 yrs? Made it to the ALC. In the NLC just the Cards & Astros did that. The dogs of the NLC would finish behind the Royals if they were in the ALC.

I don't believe most cubs fans are that interested in which team gets more attention, especially when the cubs are playing well. I for one am glad the sox are over .500 and that sox fans are happy with their team. Maybe this will result in the owner of the team putting the sox games on tv, that will be sure to help with people paying attention to them. Besides if they are still wearing those uniforms with the short pants, people will tune it in just to see that. I did hear that they have team blow up dolls now too so maybe if they have sox fans race around the field during the seventh inning stretch, holding the blowup dolls by their er well, bats, like the sausage races, this will help build fan interest. Just trying to be helpful.

Ha ha! Don't all you dumb Sox fans realize you're playing right into Cubs fans hands by constantly whining about everything? Keep it up.....we love it!

Hey Scott, you wanna know what's dumb? A-holes wearing their Cubs gear on the South Side. You would never see that at Wrigley. Playing right into your hands regarding what, by the way? Sox are in first place. Does that sound like whining to you? My only complaint at this point is that I saw 3 people get thrown out of the stands at the Sox game tonight - all of them were wearing Cubs hats. Morons.

Well Julie, I guess that makes the dolts who wear those hideous green White Sox hats to Cubs games A-holes, too. Yes, I have seen it at Wrigley, oh clueless one.
Yes, the team is in first place, but anyone with half a clue (which excludes you) realizes that only drives up the complaining from the Cubs obsessed White Sox "fan" base. How much longer until we see a letter to the editor from some clown who actually took the time to measure the amount of space each team got in a particular edition? O/U: Two weeks.

What is the deal with those incredibly ugly green hats, anyway? If a fan was proud of their team, wouldn't they want to wear the team's colors?

TTH thanks for proving my point...yes in the past the AL Central WAS good and now it isn't. Why keep giving them props when they havn't shown anything this year. It was so good because the Twins, Sox, Tigers and Indians were all battling for 95 wins...Now they are fighting for who can get to 85...Plus, the Tigers are no longer even in the equations so now its three teams fighting for mediocrity...let it go it is a good not great division NOW.

Yes Roman, I cancelled, and it was not simply over a Mariotti article. It's all the negativity from your columnists. Mainly Mariotti, Slezak, Couch, and sometimes Telander. Always trying to stir up something out of nothing. If you don't believe I cancelled, I would be willing to email you my actual name and you can look it up.

Cubs wouldnt survive in South Central! Betta ask somebody.

TTH a more appropiate word is pernicious!

But on a more positve note, The Chicago White Sox - our 2005 World Series Champions,
later in 2006 played until the last week of the season fighting for a playoff position.
In 2007, well any team can have an off year, But an OFF CENTURY!? Come on now.

Now its 2008, White Sox are in first place, AGAIN, regardless of what a Cubbie fan thinks of the division. Okay? And I will
acknowledge your team only because it is in Chicago.

Enjoy your first place while it lasts...Therfore I can sneer, snarl, bite and chew on tender Cubbie meat... all while grinning