Full Court Press

The Bulls are still relevant? I must have missed the memo.

There's the man-rule that says you have to wait at least three days to call the babe you met at the bar. Unfortunately for Pax, he doesn't know that that philosophy doesn't work in coaching searches.

Bulls? Paxson? Hmm. What about the owner? Wasn't he the one who for some reason had to meet with Paxsons choice and send him running to sign with the Knicks? Who met with Ben Wallace and his agent and wound up dumping skiles and sending him racing to sign with the bucks?

Don't blame Paxson, this is Jerry's team, Jerry's mess. Where is Jim Boylan when you need him, oh yeah, back on Skiles staff. Oh well, I'm sure the Bulls can dredge up some low budget assistant somewhere to entertain their fans. Have to wonder now how much the bulls' owner interference caused the misses on trades for garnett, gasol and kobe. Doubt it was all Paxson's doing after seeing how this last season was handled.

Ray Allen might be the worst defensive player in the league. Thibodeau would be my choice for coach.

Many fans and experts seem to think thaqt the Bulls just need one or two little things corrected to get them back to respectability. We had thought that was where we were a year ago, of course, but just a touch-up here and there. I can't see it. This team looks in a complete mess to me and I see only one person -- just one -- who should be on the short list to coach. I feel John Paxson made this mess and he should roll up his sleeves and try to fix it. He should have done that over the winter, rather than sacrificing Jim Boylan to the meatgrinder. If Pax sees something in this ugly roster, he should be the one to bring it out.

Or we should be looking for HIS replacement.

This is an obvious mess and the only people who really care at this point are the die hard paying customers like myself. The casual sports fans are pretty much tuning out already as evidenced by today's voting poll results. People are also seeing that whatever spin of an excuse the Bulls can come up with, they are not going to hire Avery Johnson because he will command more money that D'Antoni, that's the bottom line, so why even bother discussing how well he would fit in with the Bulls anymore?

By the time Paxson even gets to interviewing the high profile assistants like Thibodeau, it will either be late May or in June already. The NBA Draft Lottery will have passed and then you have the Pre-draft camps, the NBA Draft itself and then the Summer Leagues and so forth. Paxson has already said that he was going to take his merry old time with the hiring process, but I didn't realize that he meant it this literally! This is absolutely ridiculous! No one can even take Paxson seriously anymore either. The entire blame goes to Reinsdorf and there's not a doggone thing we can do about it except vent our frustration as fans. Like I said in my last post in the last Bulls blog thread, a stronger voice must be heard or written before the stubborn mule in Reinsdorf will even listen because ticket sales will never go down drastically. The man is just like the late Bill Wirth.

It's bad enough that the Bulls were never as popular as the Bears, Cubs and White Sox, but now they will become second fiddle to the Blackhawks by the end of the year, if not already. Thank goodness for High Definition Television because the Bulls have just lost at least 10 full season ticket holders as we speak....

Not so much frustrated, I am a defensive minded player, so I know, to be defensive minded it takes some of the LUSTER off the game. D'Antoni is a nice coach, but he does not preach defense and discipline, from what I've seen, and with our baby bulls this year our two main complaints were intelligence and desire. I hope we get Johnson, or someone defensive oriented with great communication skills to motivate our players.

To blame Reinsdorf now, is to congratulate him for all the winning he gave us earlier with the White Sox and Bulls. He had no play in either except listening to his GM and being one of the owners who signs the checks. I can live with a bad season if it gets the team focused on what is really going on internally as far as accepting of roles, and playing under a team concept, two qualities sorely missed over the past 10 years.

Our fans are selfish, and demanding we win now instead of developing talent and taking that talent to the next level? We've traded away a 20-10 player in Brand(he wasn't good enough?), still haven't found anyone to fill his shoes, Chandler, Curry. Did not resign Pargo, and now want to get rid of everyone on this team, as if there is no talent there.

The media scrutinize every detail, and blast the deals they think are dumb(as if Mariotti and co. never made any mistakes). I just hope we can get someone in here that can teach a little defense and team pride. Get our players to buy into a system offensively and defensively, or get players who still love to play for the love of the game as well as the paycheck. There is talent on this team, just wish we had the patience to wait for it to develop.

As I've said before, tired of this mess, just hope the season starts right away.

Edgar, you are a great poster. I love your insights. But since the MJ days, the Bulls have become the CUBS. People go just because. Cubs could be in last place in the middle of the season and have a jam packed house. Just like the Bulls. And to their credit, the Bulls put on a first class show, in a state of the art stadium.

Paxson is going to have to do what Kerr did, roll the dice on a star. I think the Pistons are about to break up and so are the Mavericks. Players are going to be available. And now that Skiles is gone, I am anxious to see what we can do. Might be the year for the Bulls.

The Bulls are a mess at the moment. With most of their players losing trade value this past season, hiring Mike D’antoni would have revitalized the Bulls and enhance player development. However, I can't place all the blame on Mad Pax because of Lord Reinsdorf. If both of them knew that D'antoni was their man after Reinsdorf’s visit with D’antoni in Arizona on Saturday, the Bulls should have immediately proposed an offer he could not refuse. Understandably, former coach Scott Skiles is under contact, but opportunities like this don’t come everyday. The bigger picture however is in the long run. With LeBron having the option to opt-out in 2010, perhaps the Bulls could conceivably be the leading destination for LeBron since he has high praises for D'antoni. D’antoni would be able to maximize LeBron’s skill set in an open-court style and LeBron would be surrounded by a nice core group of players.

I was frustrated but now I pretty much don't care any more.
I have followed this team since the early 1970s and I have seen enough of both sides of the coin.
Is this "think small" way of getting things done going to be any better than the Tim Floyd mess?

It is obvious that it was Michael Jordan alone who brought the Bulls 6 titles because without him they have been a joke for years now.
Reinsdorf needs to sell the team to someone who actually gets it.

The Blackhawks have already shot by the Bulls and will not likely be catchable. The Bulls as we see them, with the mess they are in, are more likely competition for the Sky. Though that #2 pick the Sky took this summer might even give THEM a shot at overtaking the Bulls.

I do agree that the six titles were creditable to Michael Jordan. No one like him on the Bulls' horizon (or anyone else's, either).

I know everyone hates when a commenter promotes their stuff, but I just tore the Bulls a new one my site (complete with loads of swearing!). This team has just gotten out of control. Pax needs to go.

I've read accounts from sources other then the "Sun-Times" on the talks with D'Antoni and the Bulls and the one thing that sticks in my mind is that D'Antoni told the Bulls there was no hurry to make him an offer and less than 24 hours later he signed with the Knicks. What that tells me is he had made his mind up before he finished his interview with Reinsdorf and possibly even before they met. D'Antoni claims it's not about money and didn't want a bidding war but I think it came down to the Knick's had made an offer already for 1.5 million a year more than he was making in Phoenix and he took the money and ran since the Bulls didn't have a solid offer ready when Reinsdorf talked to him.
If the Bulls can not convince Avery Johnson not to take a year off is that also going to be Paxson's and Reinsdorf's fault?
The Bulls were critisized for not getting extensions done with Deng and Gordon last year but both proved they aren't worth what they thought they were worth. I'll reserve judgement on the coaching decision til one is hired and some results are seen.

Here's the thing, Reinsdorf will not sell the Bulls because this is easy money for him. Keith is partially correct in that the Bulls are just like the Cubs in that people go to the games whether they win or lose. The glaring difference of course is at least the Cubs are now spending money for players and managers, although it took about 95+ years of no Championships for them to wake up and smell the coffee. On the other hand, Reinsdorf will always go back to the 6 Bulls Championships and his 2005 White Sox champs to give fans the ILLUSION that he's not a cheap owner. Fact of the matter is, he lucked out with Jordan falling in our laps at #3 in the '84 NBA Draft and to me, this is not a knock on White Sox fans, but that 2005 team was a one year wonder.

I’m tired of the excuses and the stories. It’s either never Reinsdorf’s fault or someone “misled” him or “used our team to leverage a better salary elsewhere” (heard that same garbage with McGrady and J. O’Neal in their prime as players). When has he ever held himself accountable for anything? Never. I love this line from Reinsdorf in a recent interview, “… I don’t pick the coach, I only have veto power.” Huh?? What? If you have veto power, then you’re the final DECISION MAKER, fool! And then some you might say, why should Reinsdorf apologize for anything when he gave us 6 NBA titles? Well you know what, any owner would have won Championships, possibly even more than 6, with Michael Jordan on the team. Now everyone wants Paxson fired. For who to replace him, Jerry Krause again? Come on, it’s not like Reinsdorf would ever hire Jerry West or someone else more qualified. He loves his puppets on a string. Ok, sure, Paxson messed up on some of the head case draft picks on the team, but outside of that, it’s obvious Paxson has NO POWER whatsoever in making personnel decisions. It’s all Reinsdorf, especially as evidenced by this whole D’Antoni ordeal right now. Paxson cannot pull the trigger on any trades and superstar free agents because he is held back by Reinsdorf from spending the extra money. I know some will call it smart business, and indeed, Reinsdorf is a shrewd businessman who covers his a** better than Tony Soprano and has excuses and answers for just about everything. However, I look at the history of this team and when has he ever traded for a superstar, signed a superstar free agent, or signed a high profile head coach in the last 20 years? NONE. And don’t tell me that Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman were superstars. Those guys were glorified role players. And for the record, I was against the free agent signing of Ben Wallace at the time because I thought we got him well after he finally peaked as a defensive wizard for the Pistons.

Tim, you mentioned that the Bulls were unjustly criticized for not agreeing with contract extensions to Deng and Gordon because they proved that aren’t worth what they thought they were worth, but how do you know that they wouldn’t have proven their worth with a long term contract in place? Regardless, it doesn’t matter if Deng and Gordon would have been flops or not with fat contracts. The point is, they (the Bulls) just can’t, they won’t or they just flat out refuse to spend the extra cash, to take that salary cap and luxury tax hit and go the extra mile to field a bonafide Championship contender. It’s conservative. Forget the concept of risk/reward for the Bulls because they never take any risks! They would rather prefer hoping to find the next great NBA superstar through their own draft. And for a big time basketball market of a city like Chicago that already lacks any excitement from our own College teams (because we can’t even recruit our local blue chip prospects), I call it CHEAP. This isn’t Seattle or Sacaramento, this is Chicago.

Only person I can think of is Scottie Pippen Edgar. My point exactly, we shoulda pulled the trigger on Kobe.

And It took him about 5 years to be a superstar.

Edgar I believe that they should have been more motivated to increase their market value going into restricted free agency then they would have had they been given the contracts they wanted. Instead their market value decreased exponentially with their spotty performances. I would not be surprised if one or both of them were involved in sign and trade deals in the off season.

Getting back to D'Antoni, he admitted telling Reinsdorf there was no hurry then going home and deciding to take the Knicks offer. If he truely wanted to coach in Chicago why didn't he tell Reinsdorf....look the Knick's offered me this much, I'd like to coach in Chicago, can you match or beat their offer? Had he done that and Reinsdorf balked then I would have no problem blaming Reinsdorf. In my opinion D'Antoni did not deal with the Bulls in good faith. Regardless of Mariotti's bashing keep in mind that D'Antoni admits he told Reinsdorf there was no hurry and before Reinsdorf could even get back with Paxson on his interview with D'Antoni he had accepted the Knick's offer.

I wish some Bulls fans would stop taking up for John Paxson. This guy wanted to create a team that played like him, hard nosed, lots of hustle and no off the court issues. Not to say this is bad but all we have are average role players with not a lot of natural talent. I saw this a few years ago when the Bulls were winning some game and all the fans were happy and Skiles and Paxson were proud of the team they put together. I knew this would be short lived because this isnt college you need a star to win in this league and Luol Deng is not a star he is once again an overhyped average player from Duke University. John Paxson should be on the hot seat for the opportunity he wasted to create a great team. This window is just about closed for the Bulls.

Chuck, if Pippen is the only name you can basically come up with, then that just reinforces my point earlier. It's the conservative nature of this ownership over the years that has finally taken its toll on me. It's bad enough that I predicted all this dawdling and assistant coach hiring predictions long before these news stories came out in the papers, but now seeing how pathetic Reinsdorf has looked in recent days with all the posturing and defending he has done in interviews and with the "other newspaper" in town, even the new generation of Bulls fans are finally seeing a glimpse of what the die hard paying Bulls fans like myself have had to endure since 1985.... and by the way, when Jordan was drafted by the Bulls, how many people here even know that Reinsdorf didn't own the Bulls yet? For all I know, Reinsdorf would have advised the Bulls' GM at the time to draft Sam Perkins instead who went right after MJ in that draft.

Over the last couple of days, all I've heard lately is Reinsdorf calling D'Antoni a liar and that the Bulls were "misled" and so forth, but he doesn't even realize that the majority of the public don't even care about that side of the story! It's a constant battle of his arrogance in trying to prove people wrong that he can build a Championship team without having to shell out big bucks on proven commodities. Will proven coaches and superstar players guarantee the Bulls a Championship every year? Of course not, but they don't TRY and they have a terrible track record of NO RESULTS! That's the main point. I don't care what excuses he can come up with and I don't care what or which newspaper or television stations he chooses to speak to, the smart fans can see through it. This coach hiring mess doesn't even matter anymore. They've got bigger issues in changing up the roster, negotiating contracts on current players and preparing for next season which will come up sooner than they realize and they can't afford another bad start to the season after coming off a disaster season. What an unorganized mess. Yeah, they may have been screwed by D'Antoni alright, but they put themselves in that position. Good luck straightening this all out, puppet Pax.

I agree with you 100%, Tim. I wasn't going against your original point, but instead, I used that as an example, albeit a bad example I understand that, in the Bulls' ineptness in taking risks. After watching Deng and Gordon "develop" over the years with the Bulls, I never once believed also that they would ever become more than what they are now as good complimentary NBA players and I agree that they should be more motivated to prove their market value going into restricted free agency. Besides, I'm more inclined for the Bulls to take risks in the outside free agency or trades, not the players from within, but they are either no good at it or they just don't take a chance at all. Tim, that Pau Gasol deal should have been done. The Kobe talks, I never took seriously because the Lakers wanted practically half our entire roster and Kobe had that veto clause in his Laker contract to reject trade offers. There was NO WAY Kobe would agree to a trade to another team with very little pieces to help him contend for a title. It was the Gasol deal that became the final straw for me with this management. At the time, I thought he was the perfect piece when the Bulls were riding high with Scott Skiles. Unfortunately, the public demand wasn't there (too many fans called him soft and injury-prone - even Roman called him "softie") and then came the accusation by the Memphis owner basically calling us cheap because of the luxury tax issues, of which Paxson never denied (and notice how Mr. Reinsdorf conveniently kept his nose out of that issue in the newspapers). You see, I remember all this crap because I follow this team inside and out and I pay premium $'s to watch them play the games to win, not to see them become a complete disaster in basically half a season. But that's why I said a stronger voice (much stronger than the classless Jay Marriotti) needs to expose Reinsdorf and get him to change his stubborn ways of running an NBA franchise because Paxson is too tongue-tied and worried about his own job to stick up to Reinsdorf. And for myeslf, I'm probably just a blowhard fan to them that they can tune out with very little respect.

Regarding D'Antoni again, Tim, I look at it this way... yes, he likely did not negotiate with the Bulls in good faith, but I just feel that they (the Bulls) had it coming and it wasn't the first time this has happened with Reinsdorf negotiations. There has to be a reason why we constantly get burned like this with negotiations, whether it's a coach or a high profile free agent. There is too much history of nothing working out, not even with keeping Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan in Chicago for the rest of their careers, heck even Scottie Pippen who eventually played for Houston for a couple of years. I give more credit to the Knicks in out-recruiting us for D'Antoni to accept their terms. As for D'Antoni himself, it's not like he was going to get into a verbal media exchange with Reinsdorf because if he did, that can blacklist him permanently in the NBA circle for future opportunities if he didn't work out with the Knicks. To me, it was the preferred public relations response to not refute Reinsdorf's comments and say that his "gut feeling" made that firm decision to take the Knicks job. It doesn't matter anyway, like I said in my prior posts, I didn't want him coaching the Bulls, but I wanted more the coach search process over with quicker. Instead, this search will drag on into June now and no one cares anymore except for like 10 posters here in this blog... unbelievable.

First of all, Jay M. says a bunch of bull. For someone who has never managed anything of substance, he certainly has a big mouth. One would only thinks that he is the only one who is never wrong. What a moron!

Second, when we look at the Bulls, we have to see the positives as well as the negative. For instance, Jerry Krause with all his negatives, did pretty good picks for the Bulls. He hired Phil Jackson and Tex Winter. He brought in Pippen, Grant, Cartwright, and many other players that helped to bring in the championship years. It seems everyone forgets that the year that Jordan temporarily retired, that Bulls team almost made it to the NBA finals. Yes, probably that team could have stayed together for a few more years, but I remember that at that time Phil Jackson was tired and exhausted, and MJ was going downhill physically.

Third, I don't think Reinsdorf is cheap. He paid MJ 20+ per year in his final years. He traded Pippen for nothing to Houston in a sign and trade that gave Pippen a hefty salary. In fact, when Pippen wanted a long-term contract, he gave it to him.

Yes, there were many mistakes, such hiring of Krause's fishing body as the coach, or later, hiring Cartwright to replace him, etc. But Krause drafted fairly well. Both Elton Brand and Tyson Chandler are doing quite well in NBA, and Eddy Curry is not that bad.

Paxon is pretty much learning on the Job also. Was giving 60 million to a pure rebounder a good move? Perhaps not, but it was not cheap. Was offerring 9-10 Million a year to Deng cheap? I don't think so.

Now Bulls is looking for a new coach. If D'Antoni does not want to wait, the hell with him. I am in fact very happy that he did not work out. Just look at D'Antoni's record and Avery's record in the playoffs. They are just terrible. Anyone who knows X and O of basketball knows that these two guys are never going to make a great team with their system, or lack their of. Among the candidates, the only person who knows what he is doing is Rick Carlisle. He is a good basketball mind. But he does not take crap well, and may be he is not a great motivator. But he knows his stuff. Certainly Tom Izzo will be a great candidate if they can pursue him.

Marc Jackson was a smart player but I am not sure how good a basketball mind he is. Avery Johnson will be a disaster in making. And the other candidates, I do not know well. But lets not blame the Bulls for trying to make an important decision on their time-table and priorities.

Hahaha, Jay Mariotti has this one all wrapped up. Good thing there is one sports media guy who is not totally afraid to write the truth.

And that talk puppet comment about Kaplan is so true it's hilarious. Although, I always felt kind of sorry for Kaplan for not being very bright and always trying to make himself out to be more than he is. The way he rolls over for prominent sports figures would be so humiliating for anyone with an ounce of intergrity or sense, but he apparently lacks both. You have to feel sorry for the guy, especially when he's getting played by shcmucks.

Thanks for keeping up with the discussion, Raymond. I like a guy who can challenge my "theories" (although I call them facts) and comments regarding the Bulls because it obviously shows that there are still fans out there who care, but I don't go down quietly...

First, Jay Marriotti -- and no disrespect to Roman's colleague or work buddy, but he's more of a columnist who spews out negative opinions one after the other, but is not really a die hard basketball guy so I find it hard to take him seriously when talking Bulls.

Second, the negatives about this Bulls management/ownership team far outweigh the positives that you mentioned. With Jerry Krause, I think that it's a lot easier to fill in the pieces when a superstar player like a Michael Jordan is inherited on the roster when taking over a new team as GM. Remember, Jordan was not a Krause pick. Jordan brought out the best in those role players, including Pippen. However, I'll give Krause major props for the one 1987 draft where he landed Pippen and Horace Grant, but he struck out just about everywhere else with the Mark Randalls, Corie Blount, Stacey King, Byron Houston, Brad Sellers, Dickey Simpkins, Jason Caffey, Marcus Fizer, Dragan Tarlac, Travis Knight, Keith Booth... should I keep going, Raymond? Saying that Krause drafted "fairly well" is pretty overstated, but just my opinion. And funny you mentioned Brand and Chandler because while the Brand selection was nice, he was eventually traded away for us to draft Chandler! Yeah, real smart on Krause. Oh and regarding Phil Jackson and Tex Winters... the only players who have proven to play the Triangle well have been MJ and Kobe, probably Shaq, all dominant NBA superstars at the time and in this era. I reserve judgment on Phil's overall coaching skills and philosophies until I see him take a rebuilding franchise from bottom to top.

As for finally giving Jordan his $20+ million... like Reinsdorf really had a choice? That was more like a reward for his accomplishments, but does that mean that it will have to take a player to win 3+ Championships for Reinsdorf to open up his pockets then? Even then, that's only 1 or 2 examples (if you count Chuck's Pippen) demonstrating Reinsdorf's spending spree. Is that the best you can come up with also? Wow, sure doesn't take much to sway public opinion, does it? lol

And lastly, the Bulls take waaay too long in their decision making process. Call it being careful, fine, but after failing on Floyd, Cartwright and Skiles in their post-Jordan era, it seems to me that they can take all the time they want to make decisions and yet still find a way to mess things up. Sorry, still think this is a cheap and predictable organization.

Edgar trust me I was by no means defending Reinsdorf, I don't care for the man either and I didn't think D'Antoni would have put any effort into defense. Although there is a certain amount of frustration seeing experienced head coaches go elsewhere I'm more concerned that they find someone to turn this train around and not just fill a vacancy.

Agreed Edgar, you did call this before it happened. Unfortunately, if the Bulls fail, there is no other team to root for in chicago. WNBA anyone?

Edgar you forgot some of the more stellar players such as Kornel David,Corey Benjamin, Rusty LaRue and Keith Booth.

I would also like to thank you for your take on Phil Jackson, I have been critisized many times for that exact opinion. If he is that good why aren't there 8 banners hanging in the UC instead of 6 and why was he unable to keep Kobe and Shaq focused for a fourth?

IS SCOTT SKILES STILL AVAILABLE?

I'm becoming VERY wary of Mr. Reinsdorf these days. I think the 'Ol Boy is losing a few bucks from his war chest, and his blundering right hand men aren't helping matters lately with some unforgiving, lackluster assemblies.

I'm sorry, but I don't look forward to the near future of Jerry's Kids.

The Hitless and Listless Blunders of 35th and Madison are in danger of NOT becoming extinct.

Hey Zell, lookin' for a few more tenants?

hahaha, that's funny, Tim Little. Wow, someone outside of my real life best friend and my brother who can actually challenge me in Bulls trivia! Unfortunately Tim, I already mentioned Keith Booth (you probably thought I said Keith Lee) earlier. I'll give you Corey Benjamin, but remember, I was talking specifically about Bulls former NBA DRAFT picks! Kornel David and Rusy LaRue were NON-DRAFTED FREE AGENT PICKUPS! You might as well have included Granville Waiters and Bobby Hansen in your list then. haha But nice try. Hey, just don't forget about Dalibor Bagaric, the great Matt Steigenga!, Jeff "Sleepy" Sanders, Jake Voskuhl, Scott Meents, Doug Altenberger, Khalid "mr. weed" El-Amin, etc... I mean really, I still can't believe Raymond said that Krause drafted fairly well for the Bulls. Sorry Ray, I'm wasn't trying to cut you down with the memories, but you're not the first person I've had that argument with about Krause drafting and the Reinsdorf so-called spending spree on Jordan and Pippen, far from it, but I usually win that debate every time, especially in a very spirited sports bar discussion.

Chuck, if the Bulls didn't acquire Drew Gooden, I would have easily told you that the WNBA's Chicago Sky #2 draft pick this year, Sylvia Fowles, plays a better low post game than anyone on the Bulls right now except Gooden. I'm serious. And it's pretty sad that it has come to mentioning the WNBA when it comes to the Bulls, but that just gives you an idea of what a mess this has become. Too bad there aren't 2 NBA teams in Chicago like they do with baseball.

Culzie Noooooo!!!

Sorry Edgar i was thinking keith lee and typed Booth and I thought I'd throw in some of the "terrific" free agent pick ups. And OMG how did I forget such a low post presence as Dalibor????

Tim sez: "I would also like to thank you for your take on Phil Jackson, I have been criticized many times for that exact opinion. If he is that good why aren't there 8 banners hanging in the UC instead of 6 and why was he unable to keep Kobe and Shaq focused for a fourth?"

In defence of Phil, I'll say that he came with a hair's breath, via a horrendous call vs. the Knicks of making the finals the year after Jordan decided to play baseball, and came pretty damned close again when Michael dicided to return of rather short notice ... well into the season.

Also, I can't imagine how difficult it must be to deal with multi-million dollar players, who all have egos the size of the stadiums that they perform in, and still keep them all on the same page from day one, until a Championship banner is finally raised.

His nine rings