Full Court Press

no heart no leader no real gm pax=sux

I would bet they asked for Tyrus, a sign and trade for PJ Brown (Which they could have done), and 2 #1's like they got from LA.

The Bulls would have had to part with an under-perfomer just like LA did with Kwame...but Jerry didn't want to part with a few mil in tax. I agree with your assessment Romo but it does make them worth watching anyway.

"So the Bulls trudge ahead with no identity, no heart and no leader."

I watched the Sacramento game...your quote sums it up

"They didn't want to take on the luxury-tax situation and Los Angeles was. In this league, if you're in a big-market area you can afford to do those things."

I guess were not as big a market as we think!

The fact is that it all comes down to money. The Bulls, much like the Cubs, have more money than most teams. As long as people keep filling the stands, the Bulls have no reason to sih out money for big time players.
Start from the top, Paxson, is in over his head. He came into the season set on a lineup that just cannot compete. He has had opportunities to land 3 bona fide players in K.G., Bryant and now Gasol. For whatever reason Stone Cold Pax, fails to pull the trigger. Anyone that know anything about basketball, or have watched the Bulls lately, knows this team cannot win. Wallace has to be dealt, he is terrible for the money he makes. Dump him and let Noah play more. Get rid of Hinrich and Gordon, neither is worth their weight defensively.
Get a GM that understands talent and can tell when a team is heartless and less than NBA playoff capable. There it is in a nut shell. Knowing you are wrong is part of the problem PAX, you just don't know!

I would have liked to have him, especially WITH Wallace. That GM is making Pax sound cheap. And that is pretty much how it looks. I hope Paxson does not panick and do something stupid. But I do want him to make a move. Ben Gordon or Deng have to be dealt with. Paxson is like the guy who plays monopoly and holds on to all the property he has and wont make any deals even if they are in his favor. That kind of player usually goes broke and loses.

As i said on our blog a few weeks ago,Jerry Riensdorff is cheap!And John Paxon is a puppet.Come on,were one of the biggest markets in sports and Riensdork didnt wanna pay a little luxury tax? Now we wont get Kobe Or Pau!!! I KEEP TELLING CHICAGO FANS TO PROTEST THE CHEAP OWNERSHIP,McKaskeys,Riensdork,and the Tribune.Nothing will ever change until people STOP ATTENDING GAMES OR PROTEST OUTSIDE THE BERTO CNTR and Hallas Hall!!!!

SOMEONE SHOULD SUE RIENSDORFF FOR FRAUD!!!AND RIPPING US OFF AND BIENG SOO CHEAP!!!!RIDICULOUSLY CHEAP!!! STOP ATTENDING GAMES PEOPLE!! PROTEST OUTSIDE THE BERTO CENTER.NOTHING WILL CHANGE UNTIL CHICAGO FANS WAKE UP AND DO SOMETHING!!!THAT GOES FOR THE McKaskeys TOO!!!!

I still support Pax. That GM's statement was oily and greedy. Just because Pax represents Chicago does not mean you get to fleece him. And to release that information shows he had an axe to grind with Pax. I don't like how he put Pax out there. I really don't like it when grown men can't hold their tongues. He dealt Gasol and fed Pax to the wolves. And EVERYONE who can still remember the Jordan era is coming down on Pax. Roman is right, there are things we don't know about the deal. Maybe Heisley made Paxson a deal he had to refuse.

I keep sitting and wondering why the Lakers got away with so little in order to get Gasol. Now, I'm sure of the reason. It's because Jerry Reinsdorf didn't want to pay a luxury tax. How asinine is that? This team is wildly profitable based on the low salaries, maybe except Ben Wallace. Pax should demand that Jerry stop playing around but it's obvious he's a company man. Now, I'm upset and I'm done with the Bulls until I see something change. They don't really want a great player. They only want to keep us watching with an entertaining team which has no real chance to win a championship. I almost bought an 11 game package this year. I'm glad I saved my money. Forget about the lack of talent, it's the lack of effort and energy. I believe that Skiles quit because he didn't sense a true commitment from management. I've always believed that fact. Now, I'm sure of it. The Bulls will not darken my flat screen again until I see an effort to get better and not from within. There is nothing here that suggests this team will ever improve. Even if they do, I'm not getting my hopes up for a team that is destined for a first round exit from the playoffs. I'm done!

At this point the Bulls would be much better served by not making the playoffs. Let's face it, the 8th seed will be ousted by the Celtics anyway. With a Lottery pick, the Bulls either would have more bargining power to make a trade or perhaps finally draft a low post scorer. (and this time keep him-see Elton Brand and Lamarcus Aldredge.) Paxson has overvalued his team. Look at how the Lakers made a move when they saw how thier season would go with thier center out for several weeks and began losing.

I agree that Gasol would not have made the Bulls champions, but teams like Detroit made several moves to improve thier team. had Paxson pulled the trigger, it would have made Chicago better too. The Bulls guards are too short to defend and you still have Wallace who really has been a bust. Paxson's time to make any kind of significant move has come and gone for this year. The best thing they can do is stand pat and lose. then resign Deng and let Gordon walk. then get a taller guard via the draft or free agency. I don't really know any team that would take on Ben Wallace and pay for what little he gives.

The last time I typed up a reply in here, I said that the Bulls had to do whatever it takes to get Pau Gasol. I also mentioned that he wasn't a savior, but is an important piece to build on because he was really the best available low post option with instant offense that we can get at this time. Plus, Gasol would have instantly been the best player on this Bulls team already, that's the bottom line fact. Tall interior players with a post game are not available by the dozens in the NBA! When the opportunity presents itself, you have to get a proven guy like that with serious height ASAP. However, as always, the Bulls tried to lowball (again) and got burned (again) in trade talks. I'm glad Heisley exposed our management team like that and called them out. The fact that Paxson and Reinsdorf has a 'no comment' about the matter already proves how cheap they are. Call it business if you like, but be fair to the fans then and don't raise ticket prices every season if they won't spend the extra money TO BUILD A PLAYOFF TEAM INTO A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM. I have season tickets and now I'm seriously thinking about dropping them next year if no major changes will be done on this roster.

As for Gasol being labeled as a softie, where did that start anyway? Because of his recent injury history? Just because the guy suffered a serious injury playing for his International team in FIBA about a year and a half ago, he has tried to tough it out by playing the NBA games. He plays hurt at least, unlike some of the Bulls players right now that I won't mention. And the guy also averages double digits in rebounds and almost 2 blocks a game, but he doesn't play defense? I'll tell you this, he may not be Marcus Camby, but he plays a heckuva lot better defense than Big Ben, Little Ben, Middle Deng and the rest of the Ding Dongs on this team! They're the real softies, not Pau Gasol!

Coulda, woulda, shoulda...it didn't happen it's not going to change, let it go. Ron Artest is being shopped by Sacramento. He's more versitile than Gasol. He can play the 2,3 or 4 and is one of the best defenders in the NBA. He would make more of an impact on the Bulls than Gasol would have. With Artest, Noce and Gray or Artest, Noah and Gray or Artest, Noah and Smith on the floor there would be an awesome inside presence on both sides of the floor. Ben Wallace would be unecessary.

I am glad we didn't get Gasol. I think he has never been our best option. Boylan is listening to most of us fans by starting Thabo and now using Noah more. It Deng and Gordon would have been healthy the since Boylan was the coach, we would have won probably another five games. I still think we need to trade Gordon for a 6'6" guard. It would be nice to trade Wallace, but he makes so much. I would like to see Navarro from Memphis or Salmons from the Kings for possibly Duhon or Tyrus, but need to be a realist. If we had traded for Gasol cost this year over 25 million, that's a big hit and I still don't think he puts us over the top.

I am glad we didn't get Gasol. I think he has never been our best option. Boylan is listening to most of us fans by starting Thabo and now using Noah more. It Deng and Gordon would have been healthy the since Boylan was the coach, we would have won probably another five games. I still think we need to trade Gordon for a 6'6" guard. It would be nice to trade Wallace, but he makes so much. I would like to see Navarro from Memphis or Salmons from the Kings for possibly Duhon or Tyrus, but need to be a realist. If we had traded for Gasol cost this year over 25 million, that's a big hit and I still don't think he puts us over the top.

Tim Little, I like the idea of getting Artest, but he is not a BULLS type player. He is unstable. And to keep him stable, it would take having the right coach and team. I like him though. I think you have to have that kind of temperment to WIN. RON aint scared of nobody - including Kobe, Labron, KG. NOBODY. But Tim, please tell me why Wallace has to be the one to go? If you get a player like Artest - Wallace has to stay. In fact, the day we deal Wallace - our championship hopes all die - and we officially begin rebuilding.

Hey Keith, nobody's throwing Paxson under the bus for not getting Gasol, or even Kobe for that matter, but when you consistently show the Bulls fans that you're Barney Fife with a single bullet in your shirt pocket, and totally hesitant to use it. you tend to lose face very fast. Couple that with some terrible 'guesses' that turned into bad moves and, excuse my French but, where's Jerry Krause?

There's no way in Hades this guy couldn't pull SOMETHING in the amount of time that's passed. Granted, it's not the time now, but either he's just been very unlucky or his study factors, talent judgement, puzzle solving and gut feelings are way out of wack. I'll give him the benefit of a doubt and say a little of both but I tend to lean towards the latter.

Now, whether that cheap'donkey' owner of ours is behind that bullet staying in Barney Paxsons pocket will probably remain a mystery, but if Pax had any Kahunas at all he would have a robust talk with 'Mines'dorf and get this team rolling again.

I can't see the Bulls personnel as the type to throw the flag in just yet, but if we continue to tumble, a few guys will follow Ben Wallaces' suit and underachieve for the remainder of the season to achieve the naysayers wish for a lottery pick. But, and I use that word loosely, if we get healthy and guys pick it up a little, watch for Wallace to use that un-used energy in the One-And-Done play-offs. That will quiet the doubters about the talent he has, for which he was attained for, yet open up a can of worms for his lack of 15 million dollar desire for the season.

paxson is terrible! we need an entire new franchise because this sux. Bears , bulls, sox all have the same mantality! go head keep squeezing that nickel fellas ur already durty...How can u wiff on kobe and garnett ? Fans are buying tickets to see other teams come and play. I'm tired of hearing the ol were rebuilding get em next year speach it's wack. Gasol woulda helped wallace do his thing so it's like having park place but no boardwalk not saying gasol is that great but we need to have some pride and maybe over bid a little instead of wiffing on everybody. It's just like the sox. I need to become a GM cause it seems like u just cant get fired thats some real job security. everyone should stop going to the games man...

Ron Artest is huff.He hasnt won a title or played a full season. he says one thing then does another then wants to be a rapper. thats probably the last option i would explore i'm riding with Noce!

TRADE RUMOR ALERT....

SHAQ TO PHX for SHAWN MARION AND MARCUS BANKS AND CASH

NOTHING CONFIRMED...I REPEAT...NOTHING CONFIRMED....

The bulls have done everything wrong. 1st they should have kept tyson chandler. The problem was not his play, but the fact that skiles would not play him. Now, Boylan will not play Grey.
There biggest need was an inside scorer and when they had one available in Lemarcus Aldridge, they passed. How can you we help this team when they just pass on what they need?
Reinsdorf is offending his fan base. He should have tried to win more championships when he had Jordan. Instead,he used him to sell out the new stadium and once that was done, he stopped spending money to win. The Bulls could have landed Kobe and/or Gasol, but decided not to spend the money. The bulls marketing speaks of their sellout streak rather than of their talent. Having fans who spend money on a team that has not had an all star in 10 years is something that should be rewarded. Instead of rewarding their fans, the bulls are insulting us.

Keith sez: " would have liked to have him, especially WITH Wallace."

Come on Keith!

Put that Wallace chubby back in your shorts, and deal with the fact that he's a $60 million dollar waste of time.

He flat out stinks up the court.

The well has run dry. There is a saying about being behind the 8 ball and it reflects the Bulls current and future positions. Hope everybody loves the team because there doesn't seem to be much hope for any change now. But it's funny...Paxson won't trade his "core", but he won't give them max money either. Obviously he knows none are future All-Stars.

Kevo - good posts. Keep them coming.

Mark V. - It takes 5-10 years to teach a post guy to play like Wallace. And that means being able to play good solid defense for 4 quarters - without fouling out. ANY joker (and we have one or two) can score, so the premium is on defenders. ESPECIALLY in the playoffs when it gets hot, mean and dirty. You don't acquire or move a guy like Wallace for peanuts. Bulls have taken a step back, so why in the world should he be flying all over the court in vain? He could get himself hurt playing BUSTER BALL, and that is stupid to be out hurt for the playoffs. Joe Smith has been a real spark, but by playing him too much - his knees have to be drained. And all of those minutes are risking him being available for the playoffs. These guys are veterans and we have to treat them as such.

Anthony N. - Pax is like that driver who takes twenty minutes just to merge into traffic! But I understand his caution. One bad mistake and you are dead. Somebody mentioned Jerry Krause! And Jerry was a good GM, but he thought too much of himself. Actually thought HE was responsible for those championships. Funny how he "retired" after Phil, Mike and Scottie were gone. Pax is new at all of this. We are going to have to be patient with him. Wallace was a no-brainer for Pax who thought he would be in playoff battles with Detroit for years...and you know what...he was right. Paxson is going to learn the ropes and make some key moves.

Bulls have plateaued. Coaching and playing. We need a next level coach and players.

Shaq to Suns....

well...maybe we can still trade for Darko??

Keith I didn't say Wallace had to go i said in that scenario he is not needed. He is at a point in his career much like Mourning and Motumbo are, nice to have them on the bench just in case. He's capable of making an impact in spurts. As far as Artest not being a Bulls type player, I mentioned Artest in an earlier thread and said he was not the "choir boy" image that Pax seems to love but maybe it's time the "choir" had someone that sings with attitude not just heart.

To all the Gasol detractors, how about 24 pts and 12 rebs in his debut with the Lakers. Kobe was on his knees sobbing with happiness. As to all the sheep-like, Chicago fans who blindly follow their teams, only when they demand committed ownership will Chicago join other big marketplaces that consistantly win. Chicago sports has been held hostage with bad ownership that placates their fans with mediocrity -- or worse. I have been a Chicago sports fan for 50 years and watched only 3 championship teams that were created, not by ownship, but by luck and the determination of personalities like Jorden, Ditka. The White Sox championship was a combination of their starting pitching playing way over their heads and a Voodoo-like luck. (All the other big market teams had off years and almost every break fell in their favor) Jordan dragged ownership with his determination and enthusiasm for winning despite ownerships attempts to sabotage what was created by accident. Ditka screamed and yelled for excellence until ownership let key players leave in free agency. Chicago ownership is happy with losing and unfortunately, so are most of the fans.

That was cold Mark, but since when did championship hopes start with Ben Wallace? When did you get these hopes? and where is the evidence? or are you one of those pie in the sky fans? if that's the case Mark could be right about that chubby. Let me enlighten you, Wallace was great in Detroit because of a cast of players who could put the ball in the hoop and only asked him to set picks, they played team defense. Ben is out of place here because they don't play team defense and they cannot put the ball in the hoop. Teams don't feel pressured to score because they know the Bulls will not. Wallace can't help them score. They also know that the Bulls are atheletically and vertically challenged, two small guards and no true scorer who can create his own shot. The Bulls are one of the worst teams at getting to the foul line jump shooters usually are. Wallace has failed here because management failed to surround him with the proper personnel for his forte to be used, GET IT?

Bulls have plateaued. Coaching and playing. We need a next level coach and players.

Posted by: Keith Lifetime Southsider | February 6, 2008 07:51 AM
**************

It is amazing you make this statement but in the same breathe scream "KEEP BEN WALLACE!" Everybody must go except Ben Wallace I presumed?

Your other statement: It takes 5-10 years to teach a post guy to play like Wallace. And that means being able to play good solid defense for 4 quarters - without fouling out.

So you are stating it took Jabbar, Moses Malone, Ewing, Olajuwon, Cartwright, the Big Dipper, the Chief (Robert Parrish), - Mountain Man (Bill Walton) -, oh forget it I will stop here.
But Mr. Keith Southsider, what you are implicitly stating is it took these guys and some others I have NOT named five to ten years to play center effectively?

Whatever dude!

You would be a good PR guy for Wallace I give you that much! Even if it is hype.

later friend

Greg Tybor,
U are 100% correct.

I'd rather trade for Brandon Roy for anyone on the roster. I think he's going to be better than anyone we got.

YOUR Friend -aka-Freddo Corleone - Go back and check the records - it takes all post players at least 5 years to develop. It took WALLACE that long. Most hoop fans know that. Hardly ANY player lights it up immediately. True hoop skills and playoff toughness is honed over a period of time. The great ones get better with time. Once the NBA figures out your game - you go back to the drawing board.

Keith sez: " it takes all post players at least 5 years to develop. It took WALLACE that long. Most hoop fans know that. Hardly ANY player lights it up immediately. True hoop skills and playoff toughness is honed over a period of time."

Tell me ... how long did it take Duncan, Kareem, and Hakeem, O'Neal, Walton, Chamberlain, Russell, Unseld, and Baylor?

If I remember correctly, they all lit it up from day one.

For that matter, so has Yao Ming.

djssr sez: "The Bulls are one of the worst teams at getting to the foul line jump shooters usually are. Wallace has failed here because management failed to surround him with the proper personnel for his forte to be used, GET IT?"

So what you're telling me is that we shouldn't have stopped at trading for Wallace; we should have just swapped teams with Detroit ... right?

Now I get it.

Mark V. - there is a great difference between good and great. Especially defensively. Some guys come roaring out the gate, but that is on pure athleticism. Take new sensation Dwight Howard. Looks like king of the world doesnt he? He is still not a polished block player. He is much better than he was, but the big fella hasnt learned the moves on the block he will need when his youth no longer propels him over the rim. Same for Yao. Yao is just turning the corner in his development. Andrew Bynum, Al Jefferson, and the list goes on. Look for Amare Stoudemire to learn a lot from Diesel. He is going to learn how to pass out of a doubleteam, and drop step, run screen and roll etc. Tim Duncan is probably the most polished big man in the game, but Diesel is right behind him in ability. Diesel is just out of shape. He is going to get back in shape real quick though.

Paxson can take a page from Steve Kerr. He rolled the dice and I like that. Should the Suns meet with Tim Duncan and the Spurs this year, they have just the bruiser they need to send a physical message to the Spurs if they decide to come after little Steve Nash. Bamm! Right to Duncan and Oberto's face! Yes, there is a 300lb Gorrila in the room.

Mark V. you must be a lawyer putting words in my mouth, so let me spell it out. The example was Detroits type of defense takes players to play it and your sarcasm is like your own chubby put it in your shorts and learn to read. Furthermore if you watch the game at all you know that Wallace was never a guy that had his hands on the ball with the shot clock winding down, but he does with the Bulls, Detroits defense always funneled players to Wallace. It was the sum of the whole that made Wallace a great defender. So chubby mark know the game before you make a fool of yourself.

djssr - I AGREE 100%. Wallace is probably the best help defender in the game because he can defend anywhere on the court. A lot of folks don't realize that Wallace - unlike Aron Gray - is IN GREAT SHAPE and a smart defender that NEVER fouls out. Its hard to see all the deflections he gets, the tap outs and how he is in position to PASS to cutters (better than our point). And gets to the line more than a lot of our so-called scorers. Detroit was a functioning unit - with Ben Wallace. Very few players have/had it ALL like MJ, but basketball is a TEAM sport. And Wallace has a LOT to offer a TEAM.