Do you get the feeling John Paxson can't wait for the trade deadline? He must cringe every time he hears about another blockbuster.
Forget about the Shaq trade, but from Garnett to Gasol, these must be uncomfortable times for the Bulls GM.
And the thing is, when Paxson first took over, he did nothing but clean house. He got rid of - and rightfully so - Eddie Robinson, Jalen Rose, Jamal Crawford, Eddy Curry and others. He ate millions to get rid of Tim Thomas.
So he's not afraid to pull the trigger. But like all GMs, he loves his own draft picks. And by the way his core led the Bulls to the playoffs and then to the second round last season, there was reason for optimism.
Nobody expected this to happen this season. But he gets paid millions to be the GM, so he has to anticipate circumstances and make the right moves.
We don't know what the T-wolves were asking for, but in retrospect, no price was too high for Garnett. And considering what the Lakers gave up for Gasol, it seems a deal could have been done.
Are they any deals left to make?
Pax needs to SOME HOW get Both Shawn Merrian and Shaq so we can try and make the play offs and do some damage because we dont need another lottery pick
Bulls what? I'm not seeing the connection. I think that Pax-Man isn't going to grab any new talent until he's fired every possible person he can fire. He might even fire himself.
Roman responds: That's the point. There is no connection. Hence the ????
As far as not getting Garnett, I can't fault John too much since the Bulls offered Chandler, Deng, and the number two pick (which the Twolves could have drafted Roy, Aldridge, or Gay). The Timberwolves flat out made a mistake not making that deal. But as far as the non-Gasol deal, that 100 percent falls on Paxson.
Get real, while Pax is not active in the trade market, look at what ison the shelf. Broken, old, wornout players. What is there to trade for. You might get a different form of garbage but it'll still be garbage. Heck, a lottery pick might be another Jordan. You never can tell.
Oh, he's anticipating the circumstances alright, it's the cringing part you got wrong. That happens when he's walking the halls past Reinsdorf and he hears that LOUD SQUEEKING.
Good point, Roman. Pax is in love with his picks, even though his picks aren't showing him much love. You would think Deng and Gordon would have jumped at the contracts that were offered them, but they decided that they were worth more $$$. Only problem is, they've proceeded to prove just the opposite. If this is the best they can play when a contract is on the line, I hope Pax takes off the rose -colored glasses and takes a good, hard look at how well his guys are actually performing as pros, before he ends up with another Hinrich deal - locking in more players at big money who may have already peaked.
I'd love to see a trade, but who is going to take Wallace? Can you think of anyone who take Hinrich's contract for a decent player right now? Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but I can't. Right now, these are average players making star dollars, that's the problem.
There is more then meets the eye with some of those deals. The nerve of the Grizzles owner who said the Bulls were only offering 2 stringers to Grizzles for Gasol.
Execuse me Mr Grizzles owner who did you get? Well the answere to that is you got the Lakers scraps. Kwame Brown and Jarvis Crittendon? Sure you got 2 first round draft choices but the fact is that the Lakers will not finish in the Lottery so what will those picks amount too.
As far as Shaq, I love him as a person but face it the guy is injury prone and we would have had an even larger contract to deal with.
The only thing Pax messed up on was Garnet. He should be on Bulls! No questions asked.
No one wants to play for Jerry, and I don't blame them.
He ran a championship team and their coach out of town, and decided to let his lacky Kraus do the rebuilding.
I believe that Jordan and Jackson have poisoned the well with the top tier veterans in the league, and I can't say that I blame them for doing so.
That last championship team deserved a chance to defend their title, and Reinsdorf decided he'd rather make a few more shekels.
I've been Bulls fan my whole life and I dont expect them to win a Championship every year. All I ask for as a fan is that they "try" and be competitive. It looks like they're more concerned with the bottom line than they are with putting a competitive team on the floor.
THE NON- GARNETT TRADE DID HURT BY NOT GETTING BUT THE GASOL NON-TRADE REALLY HURTS BECAUSE IT SEEMS THE BULLS DID NOT TRY HARD ENOUGH AND THE REBUILDING GOES ON.
Roman the only thing Pax has managed to do is be Reinsdorks perfect stooge. I must admit that I was as optimistic as everyone when Pax was first hired to replace JK. it was a brilliant move by Riensdork. pick someone beloved by the fans and sports media in Chicago. the first sign was the ridiculous Eddy Curry DNA test. many other cost cutting moves and "bait and switch" free agent signings were soon to follow. I am pretty sure that we will end up with another second best free agent by the trade deadline next year. everyone knows that no team will give up a valued commodity without getting what they want unless the situation is forced on them. so why would Pax bother calling Min., L.A., ETC. when he knew that the cost would be to high? it is like going into an expensive store knowing that you won't buy anything and still looking at the price tags. the Bulls management/ownership is a joke. they have sold hope like dope, instead of entertainment and excitement. I wonder how long it will take the sports media in Chicago to get over their "chummy" relationship with Pax and put some real heat on him. the only good thing is that the nucleus is still intact, LOL, LOL, LOL...............
Lakers - Jerry West Connection
Celtics - Mchale Connection
You would think that the Bulls and the Suns would be natural trading partners...
Do Pax and Kerr not get along?
They were kind of rival's for that same place at Jordans lifetime best three point spot up shooter claim to fame??
Paxson is proving to be an absolute joke. The contracts to both Hinrich and Wallace are unbearable. His obsession with most of his draft picks will be the death of us for years. We need to blow this thing up and start over. I know that is tough to swallow but this team peaked last year and will be a perennial lottery team if they dont start over. Im not even sure if Pax deserves a 2nd opportunity. Not getting Bull from Night Court, aka Pau Gasol, was a complete travesty. But the lasting legacy will be not pulling the trigger on Kobe. When Kobe states on record "go get a Bulls jersey" and you dont do it, you should be the laughing stock of the city, yet Pax gets virtually a free pass. I would love to see him roasted by all major columnists in tomorrows paper.
Guys, we don't need Gasol. We don't need Garnett. We don't need an inside presence because he have Duhon! Yes! We have the phenominal scoring inside threat better known as Wallace! And last but not least, he'll dazzle you with his dribbling, he'll go left, he'll go right, and...oh wait, "he forgot the ball...BEN GOR.....DANNNNNNN!!!! Championship he we go!
the fact of the matter is that paxson is too emotionally connected to his players and has his mind set on winning with them. the bulls have shown that they can play if they want to, but the current group of players just don't want to play anymore. many people needed to be fired, but skiles should not have been the first one to go, and paxson, of course, blamed a lot on him. reinsdorf sits in his hole until he comes out and nails somebody for screwing up his team. until we make a change of PLAYERS, we'll never know what we're capable of. or until we send paxson to the knicks for cash consideration
Right now there is no sense in making a knee jerk trade unless its to unload salary. Look to the draft and to free agency, but with no one wanting to come here could be rough. Paxson you need to play this out with the youngsters get rid of Duhon who could eat up unnesessary minutes. you can get big in the backcourt in a hurry by looking at Mayo(USC)or Gordon (Ind) and seems like the swing man from Philly (sorry bad with names he's from Az.) and Thabo could make for a long trio in the backcourt with some flexability on offense and defense, could make for match up problems while they mature. For a coach what's Rick Carlyle doing or one of the VanGundy's a taller slashing team would complement the so-called key elements you already have and probably not be too bad a old cheap Reinsdork. Whatcha think?
I got a name out there would be nice Andre Iguodola 6'6" swing man who can score and assist would look good in the backcourt with Thabo would make for match up problems both can guard would legitimize team right away both could swing up front for small line up. would make it possible to keep either Gordon or Heinrich but not both, Duhon must go Tyrus Thomas and Noah could be better if the game were played above the rim not in little guys shooting. Bigger guards make for better entry passes and better pick and roll targets all the big men with the exception of Thomas are good passers and they should be playing in there element run pass dunk get the defense packed them bust those jumpers. Sound like a plan?
Maybe we can get DWade in 2 years???
Like Roman said forget about the Shaq trade, he wanted to go to a contender for one more run at a title. In fact you might as well forget about the other trades also because they're over and done with and ain't gonna change. I doubt anyone wants Ben Wallace mostly because of his contract so unless the Bulls agree to pay part of his contract in a trade deal he's stuck here.
As I said before Ron Artest is available and never should have been traded for the likes of Jalen Rose to begin with. Some one tell Pax it's time to shed the Notre Dame Choir Boy image and play NBA ball.
Well personally I think the biggest mistake Pax has made was getting rid of Tyson for free. If he would have given the T-Wolves what they wanted there would have been no one to play with. Of couse the Celts look good there are 3 hall of famers there. How good will they be next year. The injuries are starting to pile up now. I believe they need to go after Igoudala, and Josh smith neither one signed they're extention. Trade Nocioni and Gordon for picks and give Kirk a chance to play with some finishers. We will get better just be patient. Hell it could be worse we could be the heat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep dreaming. Paxson is NOT very good at his job. Plain and simple.
Now Paxson needs some security guards! Then he can look for some point and shooting guards. LOL! Trades are moving over his head like airplanes at Ohare. We can legitimately argue good reasons for Paxson NOT to make any of those deals. Most players moved - wanted to go to CONTENDERS.
Bulls are tweeners as a team. Players like Ben Wallace, Ben Gordon, Noch, Heinrich and Duhon - have experience, but are too short. Players like Tyrus Thomas, Jokim Noah, Aaron Gray, Sefaloosha, which are tall enough, but short on experience. And then you have Joe Smith and (in Rocky's voice) "AAAAdriaaaaaaaan" Griffin who are good solid vets that are finding it hard to gell with all of these short and unexperienced players. I heard the Bulls cut Kryahpa. The only player the Bulls have with the right size and experience for his position is Luol Deng. That is where you have to start building - or trading.
I think Ben Wallace might be a savvy veteran and informed the Bulls players to get hurt right before the trading deadline. I like Ben Wallace, but it seems awfully suspect that all of a sudden this many players have injuries.
Noah, Sefaloosha, Gray, and Thomas is the future. I know Chicago loves its Captain Kirk, but he is not a playmaker and the player we need. Scrap him for a bonefide playmaker. Keep Gordon - who is a legitimate 6th man if he will sign or trade him for a legitimate 2 guard. Bulls need to retool their bench with SHOOTERS and defensive specialists.
Pax may be in love with his picks, but he is also handcuffed by his boss. DOES ANYONE SEE the similarity in the way that Kenny and Johnny have conducted their business of so-called trying to make moves? Allowing rumors to spin out of control and then spinning in a **** storm of backlash from devoted fans? It's deplorable.
As far as acquisitions go, I think that they need to try to woo Maggette and somehow outbid Charlotte for the services of Okafor (UFA). This is a big market team and should have no problem, theoretically, outbidding Charlotte for Okafor. But given the way this team has conducted business lately, I have no reason to hold out hope. The team's words no longer hold any water with me.
Bulls??? I think that sums up everything. Who are the Bulls? When we look at who is on the trading block in relation to the trade deadline I don't think there is a player that can fix the mess we know as the Bulls right now. No one player out there can lead us deep into the playoffs. You can try to trade for Kidd or Carter or maybe even McGrady but at this stage in there careers should we take the chance. Kidd and Carter are on the downside of their careers and Vince just signed a monster extension last summer. Kidd is a great player and future Hall of Famer and he known to make teams better but he's 35. Do we give up multiple players in their mid 20s for potentially 2-3 years of just making the playoffs. McGrady, one of the best players in the league when he is HEALTHY! Can any of you think of back to back seasons when T-Mac actually played the whole season? And Toronto doesn't count! And I hate saying this as much as you hate reading this but, I think at this point the best thing for the Bulls is to stay the course for now. The best opportunity for the Bulls to become contenders is to become aggressive in the offseason. Hope to get a top 3 pick again and maybe take a playmaker regardless of position that can help us or put him in a package for a established star. If we at least get one star this offseason that will pave the way when more will be free agents after the 09 season.
Paxson is going to have to decide just like Miami did. Is the glass half full or half empty? Most say half empty, but I say half full. Bulls are only a star away from CONTENDING. That star is Jason Kidd or Ron Artest. I would make a run at BOTH and move a combination of HINRICH, DENG, DUHON, NOCIONI, and draft picks. Wallace is going to come off the books soon and will come in handy in the playoffs.
Roman responds: Keith, Ben Wallace has two more full seasons. And Ron Artest is NOT the answer. I love the guy. I covered him during his time with the Bulls, but he is too volatile and unpredictable. He's definitely a very skilled player, but he's not the answer. And Kidd wants an extension for $$$$. And every team he's played for has done better after he left.
Let's just call him "Pax Man" Jones from now on.
Bulls fans, the problem with young talent is that it is just that young talent, we (the Bulls) do not have as many stars as you think, what we do have is a gang of solid third options and a couple of projects in Thomas and Noah. We could have pulled the trigger on a Gasol or KG but we really needed Kobe. Since we could nout get that we should wait for these freshman to come out. Artest and Kidd are stars but they do not put the Bulls above Cleveland, Boston or even Orlando. Time to start thinking, Mayo or Gordon instead of these thirty something joes with huge contracts
Josh Smith or Okafor...
now we are talking...
The problem is speculation. We have no idea the value of our players as seen by opposition GMs and we have no idea on who is available. Who could we afford to lose? Who seems to be valuable? We all have different answers. I like Hinrich(he plays!and I live in LA area, he is really liked outside Chicago), Deng(just getting better), Noah(has a heart of a lion), Thabo(that big combo guard) and Tyrus(20 yrs old! He just needs a jump shot of 10-15 ft), they are a great core. Wallace(maybe 5 mil too much), Smith(older), Nocioni(always a back up), Duhon(wish he would shoot more) and Gordon(too small, poor court awareness) are pieces for this team. The pieces need to be schuffled along with draft picks to trade for better pieces. I think they need an off guard with size, a true point guard, a younger banger. People I like are, Salmons of the Kings, Navarro or Lowry of Memphis, Sheldon Williams of Atlanta, Okafor of Charlotte, and maybe Harris of Dallas. They are all nice players seemingly underused or under appreciated by the team that have them. I agree with BCULZ, if we could get Josh Howard of Atlanta, trade Deng and pieces, he is the real deal along with Okafor. We have 3 starters out, you just can't expect them to be more than competitive. I do like the technicals of recent games, they need to show their fire.
Roman: Not New Jersey, who Kidd took to the finals. And its fair to say when Kidd leaves they are not going back.
Ron is a gamble, but before the Malice at the Palace - Indiana was going to the finals! GOLDEN STATE is going after him and I can't blame them. This guy is fearless. We have Wallace, Kidd and Artest, I would like our chances in the East.
Ben Wallace has two more years and in that time - we go to war or trade him. I say get Kidd and Artest, and go to war! Time is ticking - Pax needs to declare war or surrender!
Right now the Bulls in February remind me of very much of where the Cubs will be in May.
It's never too early to say, "Wait 'till next year."
After watching Portland and Sac games... we should ride out the season with the guys we have ..I'm gonna get the Bull tattooed across my entire back...I hope there's a free agent frenzy March 1st...then the combine...then the draft...The Bulls just make me hate this time of year even more
I wanna see the Suns and the Celtics go at it in the Finals....that'll be in June...when Cedric Benson get cut
And there we have it - the first "Wait till next year." Good thing I took the under......
Its not unlike the groundhog seeing its shadow....
Now that we have our first "WTNY" ....we know that we have like 8 more weeks of bleek, dissapointing, dismal hoops season.
Looking back at all the non-trades the Bulls made this year what really happened? What kind of a team would there be left had they traded Gordon, Deng, Thomas and Noah for Kobe? Did McHale scratch an old buddies back or did Garnett want to go to Boston and not to Chicago? It's plain to see Zach Randolph has made such a big impact on the Knicks that they are currently 6 games behind the the Bulls; who are in a tie with the Nets for the 8th play-off spot; and on a pace to win possibly 8 less games than last year. Memphis claims they didn't trade with Chicago because Pax was unwilling to give up any starters but didn't get anything close to a starter from L.A. because they wanted to clear money under the cap and Shaq wanted to go to a serious contender. It would appear to me that with putting Khryapa on waivers now that Pax has something up his sleeve and isn't going to show his hand. Granted looking at his statement the other day it could very well be he's looking towards next year but then again maybe not. I'm sure part of letting Khryapa go was to force Boylan to give Thomas more playing time and last night against the Warriors Thomas was key down the stretch. Scoring 13 of his 15 points in the 4th quarter and going 5-6 from the line. Although Wallace scored 10 points and had 8 rebs (none on the offensive end) he also was 0-7 from the line and I have to wonder what Gray would have done had he been on the floor with Thomas and Smith. Sefalosha held Baron Davis to 8 of 24 last night emphasizing the need for his length in the back court and his play of late has probably secured him in the starting line-up at the 2 spot. He did have 6 turn-overs last night most of which were while playing the point but he also had 9 assts.
Wait til next year? Does the NBA season actually end? I thought it ran continously so that that a** Stern would have a never ending soapbox to blab about how "popular" the game is. Rrrrright.
Hitman, I feel your pain. I'm not a "drunken dog down" (or whatever that position Julie B yoga-izes with) fan of the draft. So I have to wait until August and Sept for football to get going. And with by beloved St. Louis Cardinals looking like they will be crappy again (and that's in the pathetic Central Division), it's going to be a long summer. Of course, the Cubs will make it interesting. Will they get sold? To whom? Will the fans storm the field? How far out will they be by the end of May? Will Lou kill an Umpire or Zambrano first? OOOOhhhhhh, I'm on the edge of my seat.
My only prediction is that Steve Nash -- not having adequate time to adjust to a teammate who moves with the urgency of a Giant Sequoia -- will plant himself into the side of Shaq about three times in the next two months. (It will look like the old Bugs Bunny cartoons when Elmer Fudd was chasing Bugs and slammed into a tree -- arms and legs splayed out). The third time will break Nash's jaw and he'll be done for the season.
After that, Phoenix will adopt a new offense called the "Shaq, Rattle and Roll." They will go on to win the NBA championship.
We don't need no Gasol! Watched the Golden State Game and there is hope! We now have Thabo, Tyrus and Noah playing significant minutes. They looked sometimes solid, sometimes confused, sometimes great, but they always looked BIG! Duhon played the point great, with scoring off Davis and Ellis. thabo played the big guard and shut down Davis(8 of 24). The Bulls can have EITHER Wallace or Tyrus on the floor but Noah, Smith and Nocioni need to manning the other forward/center positions. Griffin looked extremely solid and "Schooled" Davis in his limited time. The bench was extremely supportive and maybe a lot of fans and reporters have given up, the Bull players haven't. The eyes of Gordon, Deng, Wallace and Kirk said it all with their support and enjoyment of watching this team develop character. I like the technicals for the last couple of games! Golden State was stunned by the desire of the Bulls, in a must have game for the Warriors. Boylan seems like the right coach and Tyrus, keep practicing that 10-15 ft jumper(get help from Smith!). The bigs have played so much better since Brown came to the team. Great job coach.
Dean, Tim Little. Good Posts. Glad we still have some Bulls fans. All of yall fans that are reporting that they have quit were WRONG. And I am happy for Boylan who seems to be much much much more smarter than his predecessor.
Bulls won a game without Kirk Hinrich??? Seems that ole Chris Duhon can score AAAAANNNNDDDD PASS. 34 points 9 assists and GUESS WHAT??? He's shorter than his opponent and didnt even get tired from PLAYING DEFENSE!!! OMG!!! Now imagine this team with Artest and Jason Kidd? I would like our chances against ANY team.
Downward Facing Dog, Dog.
I think Ben Wallace might be a savvy veteran and informed the Bulls players to get hurt right before the trading deadline. I like Ben Wallace, but it seems awfully suspect that all of a sudden this many players have injuries.
Posted by: Keith Lifetime Southsider | February 7, 2008 08:07 AM
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Bobby Knight here Keith. Did you bust my chops about my career and you got mad love for this louse BEN WALLACE? Are you one of those guys who think fifteen minute breaks means an hour, then become angry when wrote up and eventually terminated? You slacker!
It's a good thing the youth is playing, what took them so long to get a coach for the bigs, be careful don't fall into the Duhon can be a scorer trap Golden State plays sorry defense. When he puts up numbers on Billups and other solid all-round guards i'll be a believer. Sorry Bulls still need a 6'6" to 6'9" scoring threat until then still not enough. Dean and Tim SHOT IS GOOD!
Ok so lets just take a step back and revisit dumb trades by the bulls. Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler, can you imagine what Brand and Curry would have been like in the bulls front court?!?!?!?! Then we finally accept that trade because the Curry - Chandler tag team was up and coming in the NBA and Curry's heart had a problem, (we trade him to the knicks for basically noah, who has more heart than talent, and ty thomas, who can jump out of the gym but has no heart.) Then we trade Chandler to the hornets for pj brown so we can sign old man ben wallace and give him a fat contract! Then with all the KOBE trade talks going on we are trying to talk turkey with deng and gordon for extentions..... duh it wasn't going to happen because reinsdorf is too cheap for anything. He even told MJ when he signed the one year deal in 96-97 for 32 million that he would regret it! Reinsdorf is the problem not PAX or the players, it's the current team and Reinsdorf blocks all the moves cause he doesn't want to pay the NBA'S tax as the 3rd biggest market in the league. JERRY WHITE SOX YOU ARE A JOKE!!!!!
It's amazing that with this so-called core of talented players (Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich)riding the bench due to injuries, we now get to see some truly interesting basketball.
It's a damning indictment of Paxon's ability to evaluate talent.
Imagine how much better this team could have been if Pax wasn't so intent on keeping his little project intact.
Paxon considered this group of players untouchable as far as trading them was concerned, and now he's been proven correct.
With the exception of Gordon as a sixth man, there aren't many teams in the league that would touch this bunch with a ten foot pole.
Package them all together, along with a worthless Wallace, toss in a Snickers bar just to sweeten the pot, and perhaps we could entice Miami, New York, or Memphis to part with their lottery pick slots in the draft.
I don't believe Paxson is being given his fair due. Hearing his critics, Pax has shot airballs in attempts to bring in a big man with low post scoring abilities. However, we tend to forget that Pax also has brought this same Bulls team--in only a few years--from Jerry's Krause's futility to respectability. We tend to forget the Bulls ate the contracts of Eddie Robinson and Tim Thomas and to Pax's own fault, overpaid money for Ben Wallace. However, most Bulls fans welcomed Wallace when Pax signed the big man. Now that his numbers don't sit well, fans have turned on Pax. I personally would have traded for Kobe Bryant but even that poll is split amongst the confused Bulls fans who wish to win championships but can't agree with how to get to title land. IF this team stays together there are championships to be won later and if Pax makes a trade then NBA rings may be won sooner. Either way, I think Paxson's delay to deal is a good thing, especially if he trades away a good player for one extra playoff round when keeping that player will pay dividends in the future. To me any team can win one and fall into futility( Ask Miami), the Bulls goal should be that of San Antonio's--build a team that founds a dynasty.
dajoker | February 10, 2008 08:16 AM - I agree! I personally like how Miami did it also, but the San Antonio route is what MOST GM's are supposed to be aimed at, but what is ideal is the Chicago Bulls 90's teams.