Full Court Press

No. Find something else to stir people up. Are we going to be upset if Asian players eat cat or dog also?

Don't care.

my perception of aramis has changed. he's a jerk.

NO

It is just another reason to not use athletes as role models. It may be legal in his country, but I and many others will never look at him the same way again. Does he care? Not in the least, so why should I care about him?

This is another example of the certain groups within the United States trying to tell other countries how to live their lives. I'm sure here are a lot of people around the world that think we are savages for hunting deer, but I don't think Americans will stop doing that anytime soon.

This is a traditional form of entertainment in a country that most residents don't have a lot of money to spend on leisure activities.

Who cares, it is not in our country! This country should mind its own business and quit try to force other countries to be like us. There are way worse things in this country than stupid chickens. Understand this!!!! You cannot make an animal fight if that animal is not willing to!!!! You cannot make animals fight, you are stupid if you think you can. All you can do is put them in that situation. Nature does the rest!!! Gamecocks will fight to the death with or without humans. That is what they are and how they are made. In no way does Aramis Ramirez effect my day to day life. Fighting roosters effects noone. The problem is that the animal nazis (PETA and HSUS) are entirely to nosey.
www.petakillsanimals.com says it all. They are nothing more than animal murders themselves and total hypicrits. From my understanding most people that raise these breeds of birds take very good care of them. The best of everything for 2 solid years. If you want to go see inhumane treatment go check out chicken farms and the living conditions they are raised in. Most birds for meat processing never reach 6 months old. You tell me; how long do you want to live...6 months or 2 years? People these are just chickens...who really cares? Chickens are not pets nor do they have the mental capacity to ever be one.

It's Cruel....but who are we to police what someone does in their own country?

The Cubs should release Aramis Ramirez now. They should throw him in jail if he comes to the United States. I cannot wait to see Peta protesting outside Wrigley Field.

Roman responds: By any chance are you a White Sox fan?

Vick knew dogfighting was illegal...

This issue is not ours to question...

Ever see what's done to a Bull's neck muscles before the Matador comes out?...I pray the little Pr!%* is gored to death

Others' cultures are just that, tho....theirs...so no, I don't care

Yes we should care that animals are used and abused for our so-called sport, but this will be overlooked because a rooster isn't considered a domesticated pet.

No. They also whistle at women - should we condemn them for doing that also? What a bunch of nonsense.

Seriously, this must be a really slow news day. I imagine in a few hours the moral compass of America Jay Mariotti will have blogged about how the Cubs need to cut Ramirez now to show they will not stand for this type of behavior.

What's next, one the Bears was in Amsterdam and partook in some special brownies, gimme a break.

Roman responds: Athletes and cruelty to animals was one of the biggest stories last year, and this isn't worth a blog topic for discussion? Please. And if you know which Bear ate the brownies, let me know.

This doesn't really bother me because it was in the Dominican. I've been to the Philippines where it's also a legal sport. It's televised on one of their major sports networks and they even have commercials for the more successful rooster breeders and commercials for the feed that they use. Pretty amazing when I first saw it. But it's part of the culture over there as it is in the Dominican. Just a bull fighting is in other countries. I understand everyone's sensitivity to this subject after the Vick fiasco, but we don't have a say in the cultures of other countries.

Roman responds: Thanks for the post. Describe what you saw. I've never seen it. And while I agree we don't have a say in what other countries do, he is a Chicago athlete.

People are not happy unless we're finding out some crap about an athlete or actor(ess). I guess it's something to make us feel better about our pathetic lives. Look, nobody is breaking any laws here in the U.S. or any laws in another country. What we need to do is focus on is our own lives and families and how to make our country better, unstead of whining about every little thing someone else is doing.

Another difference is that dogs are some of the most human, loving animals in the world, and chickens barely have brains, let alone the ability to show affection toward people. Would you hesitate more to look a dog or a chicken in the eye as you moved in for the kill, if it were your only option for food? One is a companion, the other is lunch. People who kill dogs for fun are monsters, but people who kill chickens for fun are not. If you're outraged about this, you are compelled by your principals to remove all chicken from your diet. Last thing: Aramis is the man, end of story.

Roman responds: 1. I don't eat chicken. 2. You didn't watch Aramis in the NLDS last year.

It is part of Latin American culture that a lot of people are never going to understand. When Aramis Ramirez is in the U.S. and cockfighting, then we can send him to the jail cell next to Vick.

I do care. I will not be able to cheer for Aramis anymore without feeling disgusted. I actually wish the Cubs would trade him even though he's a really good player. To me, the ability to not only watch these horrific events, but to enjoy and cheer at them shows a sick person on the inside. And apparently, he's not only sick, he's stupid. After all the media drama over Michael Vick, you would think he would at least have the good sense to keep his mouth shut about it. What a huge disappointment!

First off Roman, before you go and criticize Aramis for engaging in cockfighting, remember that culturally relatively speaking, cockfighting is completely legitimate. And yes, to some cultures in the US (specifically in the South) dogfighting is also. The major difference here is that one is legal and the other is not. Vick is a criminal; Ramirez is not. And while everyone is entitled to their own opinion and very well may look down upon Ramirez, he is technically doing nothing wrong. Maybe he believes that after the fight is over, the roosters should be eaten and not buried in the backyard of some neighborhood. Additionally, I agree with TJ's comment above about how a dog is a humane companion and a chicken is a brainless piece of meat. It's like comparing apples and oranges, even though both are fruit. Finally, look to countries like Spain, who revere bullfighters. Maybe we should start to condemn Pau Gasol...

Roman responds: I do condemn him, for his defense. And I pointed out that cockfighting is legal in the Dominican and other countries.

How is either of these different from football or boxing? Think of football; daily acceptable violence that sometimes results in permanent injury, paralysis and/or death for our entertainment.

What bothers me is that this blog is usually fairly intelligent. But, you have to be philosophically consistent. Otherwise, it becomes an exercise in "celebrity scandal pandering" to sell papers. The SunTimes is not hurting THAT much.

No. We do not care. This is not an issue. Nor should it be. If an american athelete went to India and it was discovered he eat a cow while in america, should that be an issue? He is living in a different culture. We should be try to learn that our view of the world is not the only view.

I dont care I would personally like to see cockfight somewhere it is legal. What are we all ignorant. People from different parts of the world have different customs. Now if he was fighting cocks here in illinois then I think he has some issues.

Don't care...

The issue shouldn't be if it's legal or not, cockfighting is just morally wrong. The argument that it's a cultural thing is wrong as well, you can't say it's okay because "it what their culture does." There is right and wrong and this is just wrong.

I have no problem with what he did because it is legal in the Dominican Republic just like hunting is legal in this country. To all those people that get mad about it why dont you guys get mad at every ahtlete that hunts or goes fishing. Does are animals to that are dying for fun.This is stupid and the media just wants a story to tell.

I'm not going to defend cockfighting but it seems to be something that is ingrained in Dominican culture. If MLB is going to keep drafting players from outside the USA and Canada it is going to have to accept some cultural practices that may be legal in a player's home country but not here. To punish the players would be ridiculous.

I'm okay with it as long as he wasn't injecting his bird with any RGH (rooster growth hormone). That would give his bird an unfair advantage over the others and that simply isn't right.

THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC HAS IT'S OWN LAWS AND CULTURE. WE CANNOT EXPORT ARE LIFE STYLE TO OTHER COUNTRIES AND EXPECT THEM TO JUMP ON OUR BAND WAGON. I'M SURE RAMERIZE GREW UP WATCHING COCK FIGHTS ALL HIS LIFE. AS KIDS WE GREW UP WATCHING BOXING MATCHES, I THINK THATS MORE OF A BRUTAL SPORT. IF 2 GUYS FOUGHT LIKE THAT ON THE STREET THEY WOULD BE ARRESTED. TO EACH HIS OWN. HE STILL A PRETTY GOOD THIRD BASEMAN/.

It's not a question of legality, it's a question of whether people want their kids looking up to professional baseball players who condone and celebrate cockfighting. Is it OK for American children to grow up thinking cockfighting, or dogfighting for that matter, is acceptable, or even 'cool?' The Cubs, or any other major sports organization, should not stand for this nonsense, and should want players that can be looked at as role models; not that there are many these days.

NO I don't! he is not breaking the law in that country.
move on to something else. afterwards they will have a nice barbecue con arrroz and gandules!!

I appreciate Anne and Roman's comments because they come from genuine love for animals. I don't like bully mentality - of any kind. I don't hold animals in the light of human beings, but don't feel its right to hurt them for these shady kinds of purposes no matter who it is - including Vick.

Think there is any cockfighting in the US??? You bet there is - and dogfighting and any other kind of animal they can get to fight eachother including humans. Nothing has changed except Vick is doing time. And I wonder why that is for a non-issue???

This is what I'm trying to tell people: If you want to end cock fighting, just bust Vick out of prison and let him start his own cock fighting ring. Vick would go back to prison, finish his term; cock fighting would be illegal everywhere.

Although I'm an animal lover and Roman may not have anything against Ramirez, it is ultimately making Ramirez look like a criminal (Yes, I know you mentioned it was legal in the D.R.). However, cock-fighting is part of Latin culture especially among Caribbean countries, and this is harder for people in the U.S. to understand. Let's focus on what numbers Ramirez will be putting up for Chicago in '08 season. Let him do what he does best, anything else is his private life.

ok..I can't help it...I gotta..

Let's all put ourselves in Mr Rooster's place...

"Hey, Mr Rooster, do you wanna scrap and screw till you die..or would you rather us... just cut off your head and eat you?"

If I'm Mr Rooster...I'm scrapin and screwin...and then....you can all eat me...

his defense is not that bad. In fact I think he deserved a gold glove last year I think that the only reason he did not win it is because the baseball writers love them some David Wright whose fielding percentage is by far worse than Ramirez and who had 11 count em 11 more errors then Aramis. So you Roman I will condemn for having nothing better to do than bash someones culture. Get a life.

Roman responds: I was talking about Pau Gasol, who was mentioned in the post. So to you, who doesn't put his name to his post, I say pay attention.

It is a cultural difference. If he did here on American soil, there would be a problem. As far as I know, he hasn't. People in America are allowed to hunt just to put the animal's head on their wall. Is that all that different than cockfighting? It is somehow more acceptable because we, as Americans, say it is? Some people worship cows. I eat them. When people from other cultures try to push their beliefs on us, we get pissed, and rightfully so.
We need to stop trying to be the morality police for the entire world if, for no other reason, to stop looking like hypocrites.
I got my money on Little Jerry Seinfeld.

I've got Sunday in our "When will Carol Slezak write, yet another, PC piece instead of covering sports" office pool.

Roman responds: First of all Max Power, the "Leetle Yerry Seinfeld" reference made me laugh. Secondly, what does it mean that we shouldn't be the morality police? Does that mean we shouldn't voice our moral concerns about things. No discussion? I disagree.

The American media and the court of public oppinion, which these days is always in sesion, is just getting to be ridiculous. Animals are slaughter all the time. Millions of animals are slaughtered every year. Does it hurt the animal less knowing it will be buthered and eaten after it is killed? I dont think so. Have you seen "No Country For Old Men" yet? The air powered weapon used in the movie shoots a metal stud directly into the brain of cattle. No one can tell me that is less cruel or violent than two roosters fighting. Bottom line it is not illegal in the Dominian. Animals are slaughtered all the time, unless you are a vegitarian you really have no room to talk.

PS
That being said hey Aramis dont be an idiot you want to be the George Steinbrenner of cockfighting great, just dont feild questions about it with the American media.

Well, I will have a hard supporting him, because I don't think its really fair to make any animal to fight for sport. I'm fine with boxing and MMA because they make a conscious decision to fight forcing anything into a fighting liefstyle I do not agree with. Should the cubs care? Only if he does it in the US where i believe it is illegal every where but Lousiana. Just a shame, I'm betting though that he puts more effort in to cockfighting then he does trying to get to 1b

oops. I missed the Pau Post and forgot my name.

---The Cubs should release Aramis Ramirez now. They should throw him in jail if he comes to the United States. I cannot wait to see Peta protesting outside Wrigley Field.

Roman responds: By any chance are you a White Sox fan?

Posted by: john ---

So a tourist goes to Amsterdam, stops in a coffee bar and enjoys an evening. Should that person be arrested when back in the USA? What if someone goes to Germany and drives 150 on the Autobahn? Both of those actions are illegal in the USA but those people wouldn't be punished or arrested.

Ramirez also should not be punished. I'm not condoning cock fighting, but he did it in culture that supports it and in a country where it is legal. The Cubs have little recourse for cutting him, especially in the eyes of the union.

i dont care...

Any person who finds this type of thing entertaining is a sociopath, capable of the most heinous actions. What a piece of crap.

Aramis shoudl know better, but while Vick used the aliby that it's part of his culture, Arimis would be telling the truth as cock fighting 9as wrong as it is) is a part of Dominican culture. I don't know the leaglities of cock fighing in the Dominican, but I believe it is legal, for that I don't think the Cubs should punnish Armis other than educating him why cock fighting is so wrong, then maybe get him to speak out against it. This is a chance for the Cubs, MLB and Aramis to make a positive impact on the Dominican by speakign out against cock fighting.

who here has ever been to or seen a rodeo on TV? I had to go to one for work once and it is positively brutal. I watched that Pedro Martinez cockfighting video and can say without a doubt that it was far less brutal than shocking a cow with a cattle prod or tying a rope around a bull's testicles just to make it angry and aggressive. Seriously, leave Aramis alone. What he did was legal where he was, just like a tormenting a cow at a rodeo is legal here but would be illegal in India.

Roman responds: Secondly, what does it mean that we shouldn't be the morality police? Does that mean we shouldn't voice our moral concerns about things. No discussion?

No, you have every right to voice your concerns. But we have no right telling people from other cultures that our view is right and their view is wrong. It's a bit hypocritical.
We allow two men to go into a ring and pummel each other for our entertainment. We allow horses to be put through un-natural exercises so we can bet on them. We allow hunting for fun, so some good ol boy can have some new decorations for his living room. But we complain about cockfighting taking place in a different country than our own. I think it's pretty safe to say we can debate the morality of all of those things, but to come down harder on certain things because "we" think they are wrong comes across as overbearing and preachy, as well as hypocritical.
As I stated before, we need to stop trying to be the morality police for the entire world if, for no other reason, to stop looking like hypocrites.
And for those who state "The Cubs should release Aramis Ramirez" and "I actually wish the Cubs would trade him" will you hold the same point of view for players who bet on horses, kill wildlife for leisure, or eat steak? Some people find those things wrong, or are you the ones who determine what is right and wrong for everyone?

Roman responds: Look, no one is talking about invading the Dominican and forcing them to outlaw cockfighting. It's a discussion. And it's a legitimate one. As far as telling other countries what to do, happens all the time.

Describe what I saw: Well, it's all very much how you would expect a boxing match would be. They bring in the two birds and post thier stats. They talk about their trainers. They all look pretty wicked. The roosters that is. Some are very colorful. And they have some sort of a sharp hook tied to one leg. The Then they jump and flap towards each other and stab at each other with the hook. It's pretty brutal. I couldn't believe what I was watching the first time I saw it. People who have watched it a lot can pick out the good stabs, but it all happens so quickly. Then if one bird is down, the ref will pick up its head to see if it can go on. It can be pretty bloody. Sorry for being so graphic, but that's how it goes. I'm also sorry to say that after watching it a few times, I actually did start to become desensitized to it.

The commercials were interesting. Advertising feed like they would dog food. And some successful breeding clubs are very popular and have their own commercials as well. I suppose you can try to purchase your own bird at one if you wanted to. There are plenty of unofficial "minor league" fighting rings all over the place. A lot of gambling goes on.

Roman responds: Yeah, I can see where people consider that entertainment.

Its a much different culture where Aramis is from. I really think this is a non issue. I my self think that what Michael Vick did is cruel and would never be involved in anything like it. However I don't think he should be sitting in prison either.

I could care less if Aramis is involved.

Wow . . . STUFF THAT IS ILLEGAL HERE IS LEGAL IN OTHER COUNTRIES AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE LIKE TO GO THERE AND DO THAT STUFF!!!! This is a sorry-ass non-story if I've ever seen one.