Full Court Press

It won't matter a bit what kind of line up they have or whether Piniella thinks he has all the pieces if Roberts or some other player doesn't bring a little fire to the Cubs clubhouse (and no, Zambrano is not that person. He doesn't bring fire or "heart," he's just crazy).

Look at the last few WS winners -- Red Sox and Cardinals. Tough teams with tough, scrappy players.

The Cubs may look on paper like they have all the pieces, but for my money, this is a team that still uses too much mousse and needs too many mirrors in the clubhouse for all their pretty boys.

Piniella's rants may fall on deaf ears this year or perhaps he has one more season where the team will listen before it shuts him out like the Bulls did Skiles. The days of teams playing hard because they are scared of their manager are over. A team's heart has to come from within the clubhouse AND be a player. I don't see that player on the Cubs. They may win their division because the division is so feeble, but they will fold in the playoffs just like last year.

Konerko is a fine, above-average MLB first baseman. Questions of him being in the decline phase circled about him last year (Tino Martinez is a top comparable player by PECOTA, and Tino started tanking as of age 31, just like Konkerko last year), but we are losing a lot by giving him up.

Swisher's bat is nowhere near as valuable at first base as it is in center. Figgy is only really a valuable player when his batting average is flukily high, like last year (he didn't walk more per PA, strike out less per PA, or hit more HR per PA, so yes, Figgins hitting .330 last year was nothing more than luck). The whole concept of a "leadoff hitter" is bogus. You can lead off with any old guy who gets on base, and a guy's "ability" to "lead off" should NOT be overvalued in trade. Batting order isn't that big a deal, after all, except for putting guys who get on base a lot in front of guys who hit lots of HR. Figgins isn't exactly good at defense either.

Ervin Santana created lots of question marks last year. While he's way better than sticking Gavin Floyd in the rotation in theory, he won't be if he repeats last season.

My opinion is that we take a hit by swapping Konerko out of the lineup for Figgins (one vs one offensive value, regardless of meaningless spot in the batting order). We take a serious hit there. Is the chance that Santana will rebound and be way better than Floyd really worth it? I think not. We'd be better off taking a 1 year incentive-laden deal with like Bartolo Colon or something.

Also, Ricky, whether or not the Sox add a reliever in the deal is not important. The Sox bullpen is fine. Jenks is a very good closer. We signed Linebrink. MacDougal was inexplicably bad last year, and because there's no explanation, he'll probably rebound. Thornton is pretty typical for a middle reliever, and he randomly has good and bad years. Wasserman looked good during his call-up last year. Giving up anything of value for another reliever would be a mistake.

I say Howie Kendrick needs to be in this deal to make it a winner.

Also, Jay Mariotti prints out another hypocritical piece! I'll be taking it down on FireJay.....right now!

Ricky responds: I agree with a lot of what you say here, though I believe our baseball philosophies differ from Ozzie's. Remember, when the Sox began to struggle last season, what was Ozzie's big plan to save the season? More bunting! Strangely, I feel like he does believe in the importance of a true leadoff hitter, but maybe that's just me. No one ever accused Ozzie of reading Moneyball.

Good Post ROD...very informative!

In the article by Jay Mariotti he questions Brian Robert's integrity--I will admit that Brian made a mistake and will pay a price for that mistake but anyone who thinks as a person he is a person that lacks integrity is way off base and hasn't researched his material. Brian has a long history of community involvement and is an upstanding young man. If you want to crucify people for making a mistake we would all be dead. I am an Oriole fan of 47 years and Brian is one of the finest integrity players we have had in my memory. Cub's fans he would be instantly one of your favorite players if you were lucky enough to obtain his services.

seedy, lets talk cubs. this team is being brought back almost intact from last year, and that is a good thing here are a few reasons why: after a horrible start where most cub fans started looking forward to next year this team pulled out a great turnaround with the tried and true leadership of lou pinnela,and some of the most exciting young up and commers in the game. how could you not expect this team that had a horrible exit from the playoffs not to come back hungry and ready to prove that they are in fact just as capable as any recent series winner. we can talk about the vets too but we all know that they are as steady as you are gonna get on any winning team. and you wanna talk heart and leadership dare i say kid k. yeah i like our chances this year so save the late season embarassment and get on the bandwagon NOW!!!

A couple of things. First of all, get rid of Paulie. He is a nice player but forgodsake it takes the Sox 4 hits to score a run. The Sox are a station to station team. They also rely too much on the longball. If the trade includes Howie Kendrick do it today. Danny Richar is brutal!

Also why can't the Sox get involved in the Brian Roberts sweepstakes? I would have traded Gonzales and the 2 other people for Roberts instead of Swisher. Roberts is an All Star.

Why is it that Cub Fans think that Baltimore would accept Marshall,Gallagher and Cedeno for Roberts? Andy Mc Phail would be a fool but I forgot I think he is still getting paid by the Cubs. If I was GM OF bALTIMORE, I would ask for Hill, Murton and a Pitching Prospect. Why do Cub fans think they can trade just anybody for All Stars? Hey will trade for this guy and we will give them a bucket of balls.

Also another thing, the Cubs better hope that Ted Lilly has the same year like he had last year and that is the same with there Bullpen as well?

Does anyone else remember the near-desperation of fans two years ago when Paulie was being lured to the Angels and instead re-signed with the Sox? Now he may well end up with the same team.
I can't count how many homers I've seen him hit into the LF bleachers and I'll miss him, and so will the rest of the team, if he goes. I can't see the trade Ricky describes being beneficial to the Sox.

Noles your assessment is spot-on. Kenny has gambled a lot on this winter's transactions...I like the Swisher trade and don't think his other moves are terrible, but they're iffy. The Hunter and O' Cabrera misadventures were hard to watch but the Sox will never outbid the Yox or the Angels. Never gonna happen. They need another pitcher, maybe two -- why not E Santana and Colon?
Final thought about Jay -- shave his head, put him in a bad toupe and wide-lapel yellow blazer, and what do you have? Howard Cosell.

Figgins is an excellent player,hope is career is't wasted you know where. Just like Jermaine Dye's.
Why is Brian Roberts a big deal? So was Pierre and E.Y. Us Cub fans know what is gonna happen. Still.........................

GOOOOOOOOOOO CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUBBBBBBBBBBIIIIIEEEEEES!!!

MacPhail might still be on the Cubs' payroll, but you could conclude Kenny Williams is the MVP for the Detroit Tigers. They let Mags walk and he puts up MVP numbers in any year where A-Rod doesn't look like he's from another planet. Then, Kenny lets the Sox savior — Miggy Cabrera — go to the Tigers along with the D-Train. All the while, Kenny trades off guys that won his World Series title. Garcia certainly looks like he is breaking down, but trading Garland is just the Sox being cheap. Sure, Cabrera is a decent player at short, but when your pitching staff looks like the Sox I think Garland is more valuable. Do Sox fans really think Floyd, Danks and the Sox clown car of pitchers is going to get out Cleveland and Detroit hitters? Give me a break.

Rag on the Cubs all you want. But Soriano is better than any player the Sox have. D-Lee will be much better than he was last year coming off an injury and the Cubs have way more pitching. Plus, the Cubs' division sucks. It is easier to win than the Sox. Milwaukee does us a favor by trading off their reliable reliever in favor of taking a cheap flier on post-drugs Eric Gagne and the Cardinals are still paying for going ultra-cheap with their pitching and are getting extremely old in the field.

Ricky responds: The year after the Sox let Maggs walk they won the World Series, and Kenny hardly 'let' the Tigers grab Cabrera. The Tigers gave up two super studs, something the Sox don't have. If there is one thing Williams can be criticized for, it's drafting poorly. The Tigers package of Maybin and Miller is far better then anything the Sox could have offered, which is why MiggyCa is in Detroit now.

Carlos Zambrano is a crybaby, face it. I got tired of his antics his first full season with the (C)ompletely(U)seless(B)y(S)eptembers.....They blew their wad in 2003. Of course most idiot die hard Flub fans blame it on a guy who stuck his hand out IN the stands to deflect a FOUL from Crybaby#2, Alou, in game 6. Then thay had the audacity to run him out of town on a rail. Tell me, did he give up 8 runs, too? Or in game 7 did he morph into the Cubs reliever turned starter, or is it the other way around, Kerry Wood????? Get over yourselves. The Sox win a World title in 2005, and here it is, 2008, and Sox fans are all screaming for blood from Kenny Williams! God, I wish to be surrounded by real baseball fanatics...

RO'D, nice post, like your input.

Would trade Paulie for that package any day(even without the reliever.) An All-Star caliber pitcher, and a leadoff hitter for Konerko, gotta pull the trigger 7 days a week, but KW will wait it out, just hope he doesn't wait too long. BTW can Fields play first base?

There is no upside to the Cubs, just a backside. The lack leadership on the field, and that is always killer.

stuckinwisconsin-I agree with some things you say about Maggs I was upset that the Sox just let him go for nothing but the Sox won the world Series the yr after. The Sox would not have won it if they kept him, cuz he only played 82 games in "05" and the Sox wouldnt of got Dye and he was the World Series MVP. As for the rotation the Cubs 4th and 5th starter are not studs either I agree Sox rotation is avg at best but i believe Kenny still has some moves left in him. The reason why the Tigers draft so good is because for the last 10yrs before "05" they were always in last place getting high draft picks just like the Cubs. The Sox have always been a contending team "07" was first losing season since "99" so that forces them to pick lower in the draft. So worry about your own team instead of talking crap about the White Sox. Go Sox...!!!

Cubs adding Roberts certainly will help Cubbies. At least he was honest on his steroid use. If Sox can get a decent pitcher,Figgins & Kendrick for Konerko may not be a bad deal. Konerko provides power but also was a doule play artist on offense & even his defense wasn't that great in 07. The sox would have speed & a bat at top of lineup in Figgins .Kendrick is a up & coming young second baseman.Sox don't have a dependable second baseman or Center fielder.Sox still need help in bull pen along with a proven mlb starter.

The Cubs are making moves to put a better team on the field than they did last year. After one year with Lou and his ability to know where the Cubs need help, I believe that they are filling holes. Sure, our bullpin needs to be as good as last year and we need our starters to have a good year but every team needs the same things to happen with their pitching. Offensively, we didn't have a legitimate #5 hitter last year and Soriano was not a typical lead off hitter. I think if the Cubs can acquire Roberts for the lead off spot, and with the acquisition of Fukadome our #5 spot can be filled with several good hitters.The Cubs are a good mix of experience and youth. Soto just might be a jewel behind the plate. People can find fault with the Cubs....but for me I'm looking forward to 2008 and fully expecting the Cubs to be better, maybe even a great deal better. As for the sorry Sox fans....what happened to all of talk about "this is how you build a champion program" ?

Here is the deal. The Cubs were 82 wins into the playoffs, they underachieved last year, as did the Sox. The Cubs on paper should do better than last year, so should the Sox.

Thing is both teams have weak rotations right now, if the Cubs trade for roberts, they are even weaker in the rotation. Dempster is no lock as a starter, no is Lilly coming back or Jason Marquis? Come on folks, take it down a notch, the Cubs are a slow, power hitting clubs, much like the Sox.

The Sox should add Santana and Figgins. Paulie has some good years left, but folks, 05 was won on pitching and Podsednkis fist half. End of story.

The cubs and sox both need speed, Roberts and Figgins help big time. I know who ever gets Roberts will be happy and the other team in town, cubs or sox, will say they got a cheater. I don't care about the moral stuff, what I would be worried about is someone just caught, you know he has been using stuff since 01, and you know his numbers will go down here. Be careful with what you give up for this guy. Derosa is more than fine.

Either way, I don't think either team is built to win it. Both have a weak rotations, with the Sox 1-2-3 statistically better than the Cubs 1-2-3. Remember, pitchers have off years. After that, Floydd, Dempster, Marquise, Danks, these are very below average pitchers. Both teams bullpens have the ability to be better than average or stink, bullpens are on one year, off the next.

End story - no one knows anything. Sox were picked 4th in 05. in 06, picked to win it all. ended 3rd with 90 winss. Cubs go to playoffs last year, as some picked but with 82 wins, that is the fun of baseball, its not always the best team the gets into the playoffs or wins it all, its the team that gets hot at the right time.

And no cubs or sox fan can say which team that can be this year.

while i wish the sox could have gotten tori hunter i don't think the price was right. also while i wish we could have gotten miggy i know we didn't have anywhere near the package that detriot gave up. i see what kenny is trying to do with this team now. i like the DIRECTION it is going but the only way to complete it is to ship off konerko. the middle of the order is too clogged up. if we could ship konerko off for figgins santana (lets not right this talent off because of one bad year. remember the bad year buerhle had?) and a reliever it would make our lineup a lot more dangerous. think of a lineup looking like this figgins cabrera thome dye swisher fields AJ quentin/owens richar... i like it. its not so station to station. it doesn't take 5 hits to score (trust me i have seen the whitesox get 5 straight base hits and only score once). sure i would like to trade thome instead of konerko but there is no way we get value for thome. GO SOX

Sean Marshall wouldn't be the biggest loss. Sean Gallagher, who is the Cubs top pitching prospect, would be. He's very young and his minor league numbers are outstanding. Every projection system out there has him outpitching Marquis+Dempster, the team's 4-5 starters, this upcoming season. I would still pull the trigger, but it's certainly not a "steal" for Hendry.

Boy, there sure are a lot of angry Sox fans on here! You would think that they would be talking about the fact that their team recently won a World Series and what they need to do to get back there... instead, they seem VERY focused on the Cubs. Three things are certain in this world... death, taxes, and Sox fans being more concerned with the Cubs than their own team.

My early favorite for mope of the year has to be Telander. He takes the holier than thou approach this year by suggesting that he cannot vote for anyone.
This after he voted for admitted users Canseco and Caminiti last year.
What a hypocritical fool!

I am going to show my loyalty to Kenny Williams until 2010. That is how much a championship means to me. Sox have what others are chasing. Of course I want more, but um sure Kenny does too. He is a proud guy with a touch of arrogance, but that is what it takes to gamble and win.

I like Paulie the 05 clutch hero, but where have they gone. Crede, Rowand and Paulie seem to be one hit wonders. Don't get me wrong - Paulie is a great player - but not 05 great. Crede is injured and only Rowand is still playing at that high level. Jermaine Dye is a career year on year off guy so he is slated to have a great year. I wish we could move Thome instead of Paulie.

CH:

You view the Cubs through ivy-colored glasses. The Bears brought back almost the same team as the one that went to the Super Bowl and look what happened.

They don't have a certified closer.

Dempster as a starter is a wish and a prayer.

Marquis is washed up.

Soriano, at the end of the season and definitely in the playoffs, was swinging at anything and everything -- especially anything in the dirt. Scouts will remember that and Soriano could suffer if he doesn't get more discipline at the plate.

Ramirez was letting strikes over the plate go by, while swinging at pitches two feet outside the zone. He really showed up "big" in the playoffs (I mean, did he even have a hit?). Perhaps the mousse was in his eyes.

Lilly throws his glove down in childish disgust after giving up a homer in the playoffs. More normal pitchers -- he is a loopy lefthander afterall -- would have drilled the next batter.

The Cubs ended the 2007 season on a downer. They lost to a team that they were widely expected to beat. The Cubs weren't even competitive.

I don't see the Cubs entering 2008 with a fire in their belly -- more like a hangover from getting spanked in the playoffs.

In addition, Lou was looking old and tired toward the end of the season. I just wonder how much fire he has left. I think his years in Tampa took a lot out of him.

Like I said, they will win their division because it's so pathetic. But they will be home early in the playoffs.

Allen, you spoke loud and clear about the senless disdain of Cubs fans for the fanatic who tried to catch a flyball in the 2003 playoffs against Florida. Their contemptuous feelings toward him is such that it leads one to believe that we are dealing with the Christmas Grinch, although, in fact, the gentleman is quite a remarkable human being. Cubs followers: move on, forget and ask for forgiveness, or face another century of crowded and noisy, but sterile solitude.

Also, I agree with you that Kenny Williams is being overcriticized. Pennants do not come in bunches, like grapes. Let's be patient with the man. He has not yet made a real bad trade, like the Ernie Broglio for Lou Brock deal (or Chone Figgins for Knoerko and Henry Blanco for Germaine Dye).

"Senseless disdain"
"Contemptuous feelings"
"sterile solitude"

Julie B -- looks like we have another English major on the blog. That or Hitman is using an alias -- or perhaps Victor is really Bartman.

;-)

HAI KU'

Bless you!

To Pat, why don't you read the other posts and see your cub fans talking about the Sox as well? Clueless, irritating Cub fan, as usual!

"Senseless disdain"
"Contemptuous feelings"
"sterile solitude"

Julie B -- looks like we have another English major on the blog. That or Hitman is using an alias -- or perhaps Victor is really Bartman.

LOL....Seedy...I...Just....think Victor is from Wrigleyville....or England....which is fine....but he sounds like a Sox fan.....which is where the humor ensues...and where I best quit typing

Go Cubbies!!!!

It's still football season, right?...Culzie, here's a revision...

and ya sing it to Bear Down Chi.............

"Without.....RexandCed".....
We'll make a play...We won't look gay.......What big sisseeeeez.....

"Without.....RexandCed"
We'll be able to fight...We hate this plight...On your knees disease.....

We'll never forget why you traded TJ...Ceds a pud...Cut J....A..

"Without.....RexandCed"
We'll do more than useless praying for a crowwwwwwn

You're-not-foolin-us....We-have-seen-this-bust.....It's Rashaan Salaaaaaammmmm....and Cade McNowwwwwwwwwn

RexandCedSux!!!

Naw, Seedy, et. al. You learn to put those things in writing if you give it a try. What I meant to say is that the Cubs ain't got nuthin' to crow about. And while I not Steve, I recognize his value as a human being who has has received so much taunting and heckling from other Cub fans. Taunts against him are child-like, so I have a lollypop for each "Bartman ruined us" kid. If you blame Bartman and the billy goat for your miseries, why not blaming Ronnie Woo for not cheering lowder?

I would rather see the Sox win another pennant, instead of worrying about the writing ability (or lack thereof) of their fans. Cub fans sure are the handsomest, most brilliant, successing, cool and faithful fans, but they have not seen a WS championship in 100 years. I atopped attending Cubs games when I heard some interesting people commenting that s runner should have stolen first base or affirming that, historically, the Cubs have been better than the Cards. I have no ilusion that the Sox will win anything in 2009, but I am happy that, during the long time I have lived in Chicago (and for longer)it has been the best of the two teams in town.

Mike, thanks for the ACK. but it wasn't me who spoke of Maggs. The poster is at the bottom of the post not the top. An easy way to remember: If you find yourself agreeing with me-go back and check the poster. peas out. Carrots in.

Brian Roberts may be what the cubs need. But he is an admitted steroid user. I'M SURE he really did just do it once. That 17 homer season did just come from talent only. If Roberts comes to town Cub fans will give up the right to heckle and boo Rick Ankiel, Barry Bonds and any other proven steroid user who may come to town this summer. After all you can't cheer one steroid user yet boo the other steroid users, that would be hypocrisy.

Ricky - I wish Ozzie would read Moneyball. I seriously think he'd be an above-average league manager if he just read the damn thing and took it to heart.

Half of in-game managerial tactics is managing an offense (includes batting order, when to bunt, when to pinch-hit). Ozzie is terrible at that. The other half is managing your pitchers. Though Ozzie doesn't have a clue about what the statistics say, he is easily the best manager in baseball when it comes to managing starting pitcher workloads (thank you, Baseball Prospectus pitcher abuse point statistics!).

So if we have a guy in the dugout that knows the value of a walk and doesn't overrate steals and sacrifice hits, we've got a very solid manager who won't cost us a win or two over the course of the season.

Also Ricky, your assessment of Kenny Williams is pretty spot-on. His biggest weakness is definitely drafting poorly. I'd say his biggest strength is evaluating established major-league talent, but the $75M deal he offered Torii Hunter made me question that a smidgeon.

i say to williams make the deal but only if santana is included , also to the gm give them the angel jerry owens, better ther than in the minors
goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo whitesox
cubs stink

The $75 million offer to Torii Hunter was questionable to me too Noles. This much I will say: picturing Torii Hunter in CF for the White Sox and hitting every day at our wonderful hitters park had me smiling. But seeing what he went for and seeing what the Sox offered had me puzzled.

The question I would have for Kenny Williams today if he was sitting next to me and off the record would be "do you honestly think that your addition of Nick Swisher was an addition to a team that was already headed to the playoffs?" I would love to hear his honest answer to that question and not the answer he gives to the media because he has to. Admittedly, I love the Nick Swisher trade (let me re-phrase that; I love the addition of Nick Swisher). But something needs to come next. Otherwise, he just improved his team from 75-80 wins to 80-85. And we both know that's not gonna cut it.

I agree with you on Ozzie as well. I'm not asking him to change his philosophical ideas on baseball overnight after reading it. I just want him to actually read it and then admit that there's certain things about baseball that we're learning all the time, and that not understanding these new things puts him and his team at a serious disadvantage.

"Acquiring Roberts will cost the Cubbies some prospects, but not Felix Pie or Tyler Colvin, the two crown jewels of their system." The Cubs haven't produced a quality position player out of their farm system since the mid-80s, when they brought up Carter, Palmiero and Grace. If they haven't produced anyone in 20 years, what reason is there to believe anyone in their system now has any future value? Trade Pie. Trade Colvin. Trade Vitters. Get a starting pitcher so we don't have to watch Marquis or Dempster see who can have the highest ERA. Ramirez came for Hill. Lee came for Choi. The Cubs don't have a clue how to develop a minor league player or sign a free agent for their actual value. But they do seem to get lucky when they unload "crown jewels" before they're exposed as tin.

Tori Hunter will be 33 next season. So will Jacque Jones. Hunter's career is 1,234 gms, .271 BA, .324 OBA and .469 SA. Jones career is 1,260 gms, .280 BA, .329 OBA and .455 SA. Hunter has 44 more SBs, but he's also hit into 21 more DPs. As hitters, they are as dead even as players can be. Hunter