Bulls, quitters and Boylan

The Bulls Quit the second they thought they ALL were going to get traded to L.A. and it didnt happen.

PAX TO QUOTE BILLY MADISON....

"YOU BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW IT"

Hey Stuck:

Still willing to give Boylan more time with the Boys?

This is one sorry-a** team. Why the h-e-double toothpicks didn't we all realize it at the beginning of the season?

Hey, maybe all they need is a motivational pep talk from none other than... Cedric Benson!

Is it time to start the young ones and go for a lottery pick? Exactly how much interest will Gordon and Deng generate during the offseason? I'm thinking... NOT MUCH!!

Could we have a rout going this year in major Chicago sports teams?

High expectations for the Bears, but they sucked.
High expectations for the Bulls, but they suck.
High expectations for the Cubs, and they will suck.

Moderate expectations for the Sox, they will meet them.
Moderate expectations for the Hawks, and they are meeting them.

Thank God we've got the Wolves -- high expectations and meeting them!

It's a great time to be a Chicago sports fan.

Didn't see the game last nite, but the fact of 22 turnovers means they are really sloppy or real tired. Maybe both? Take three of the starters off any team, including the two best scorers and see what happens. Didn't Seattle beat the Spurs the other nite without Parker? I am waiting for that Mariotti column on Spurs trading Duncan and firing Pop. I am disapointed in the Bulls for sure, but I am starting to believe that Deng has been hurt from the start of the year but won't admit it. It is not the Bulls fault that Deng and Gordon didn't take the extensions and trade rumors as just rumors. Wallace is now in his own world and I'm hoping he won't effect the young guys like Tyrus and Noah. I really think it is time for a couple of trades. Wallace for anyone and Gordon for the big guard. They have 40 games to get it together. I think Boylan can coach the team. Time for Paxson to step up.

Twas a humiliating defeat. But how long did you think KIRK HINRICH would last as your best scoring option??? Was bound to fall apart. Welcome to life without Deng and Gordon. And you throw in Smith and Duhon and all bets are off. We are running a car patched up with Elmer's glue. Just fell apart. I keep saying it - THIS IS THE NBA. Any of these teams can beat you.

I believe most of the Bulls are simply ailing. It happens. I think injuries got the Bears for the MOST part. Bulls/Bears have to wait until next year. Paxson needs to be cool and ride out the storm. If a marqee player avails himself - make the move, but ONLY if it makes the BULLS better.

Despite every injury and sickness the Bulls have right now, it'd be tough to find a more telling game than last night's about the direction the team is headed.

how's this? The bulls assmble a reunion tour of 'famous centers' who take the place of our current bulls. They will instantly raise fans intrest and fill the Un**** Center (no free adverts.),
while reducing scoring expectations-or any expecatations except those of pure entertainment. Here is the line-up:

1.) Ben Poquette
2.) Granville Waiters
3.) Dave Corzine
4.) Will Perdue
5.) Mike Smrek

Bill Cartwright can even come back and coach. Once Granville somehow manages to get released and replaced with Luc, they will be able to endorse Conver**e *All-Whites*, specifically designed
for those with no possibility of jumping or moving in the lane.
Then and only then, will I have a greater appreciation for today's Bulls.

This is unreal to have fallen this far behind. Skiles fell on his sword already cause he knew what this team was. He knew and like the rat he is he jumped ship like the rest of those whinney quiters. It seems to be a theme is the land of Reinsdorf. The Sox died early last year and never rebounded.This team is all comp parts and until you get a real serious scoring threat and a new offensive phylosophy it will stay the same. Paxson it's time to return to the booth. Reindorf your loyalty to your major malfunctions is ridiculus, you should step down too. Reinsdorf thought he could catch the same lightning in the bottle he did with Ozzie G. in baseball with another former player in basketball. Reinsdorf seems to think he'd get lucky again. WELL IT DIDN'T WORK JERRY. Start over or the partial support cast assembled will get worse and worse and the confidence will be shot forever. Keep the young ones Noah, Thabo, Gray, Hinrich, Nichols and JamesOn get rid of the rest of that ROTTEN core. Deng maybe a great citizen but he is only mediocre, some teams would jump on him healthy, get some salary dumps and draft choices and see what VanGundy is doing. Right now the system and the atmosphere will not attract top free agents. So the b.s. we are fed about going for a free agent the crap about Kobe, the truth was Garnett taking less money to go to Boston as opposed to coming back home for more.The window for repairing this mess in the next 2-3 years is closing.

Got a question for everyone. Why the heck are the Bulls not going after J-Kidd. I mean why would you not want a penetrating, rebounding, high assist guy. We have enough perimeter scorers. I say package up Duhon or Hinrich along with Thomas or Noah, 1st round pick next year, and maybe someone like Kryhappa to make it all work. Didn't Jason Kidd even make Mikki Moore look good. What is Paxson waiting for. He is going to lose out on another good player that would put the bulls over the edge. I guarantee the Bulls inside points and transition points would go way up if Kidd is on the team.

Watch out! The truck is backing up and preparing to start boarding 4-6 Bulls to be shipped to other teams before the trade deadline on Feb. 22nd

Some Bulls players taking Imodium these days are:

Ben Wallace
Ben Gordon
Luol Deng
Chris Duhon
Andres Nocioni
Thabo Sefolosha
Joe Smith
Adrian Griffin

A good guess is Gordon, Nocioni, & Wallace are safe because of big contracts. But, look for three (Smith, Duhon, Sefolosha) to be gone. And, one to be included for cap reasons (Griffin).

Who knows if Deng is healthy enough to trade or to give him a new contract. He my be the modern-day version of Bill Walton.

NOTHING can save the Bulls except a trade. I'd deal Wallace and Duhon for a half decent 2 guard and/or a big man with a few post moves.
Noah will makes us forget about Wallace just like Thabo has made us forget Duhon. It will be like rebuilding but not all of the way if the team clicks towards the end of the year. However, a move HAS TO be made to get Wallace out of town! No points + a few rebounds + the biggest salary on the team = POISON!

We should see if Denver would be willing to give JR Smith back to us:)

With all the bricks flying last night, you might have thought you were watching a mason's convention, but it was actually supposed to be a basketball game.
The Bulls can't hold it together to beat a team that only scored EIGHT (8) points in the first quarter.
They need a monster offensive scorer, not Hinrich throwing up balls like Steve Nash, which he isn't. Hinrich should be adding
to the total, not be the team's leading scorer.
I think one guy can make a difference.
The rest is in their heads.

With everyone giving blame to Jim Boylan, Ben Wallace, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Andres Nocioni and Kirk Hinrich, has anyone ever thought of who is really the mastermind to this attrocious season? It's John Paxson!
Pax needs to live by his own words and "be accountable" for this season. He picked Jim Boylan, a coach with no true head coaching experience when we were already 2 months into the season. He signed Ben Wallace to 60 million when even Detroit wouldnt pay him that much and he was an allstar and four time defensive player of the year there. He would not pull the trigger to part with any of "the core" players which could have netted us big names like Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, etc...
We are into the 2nd half of the season and we need to decide whether to develop our young guys and tank the rest of the way for a good draft pick or make a trade before the deadline...

Um can we now stop berating Ben Gordon like it's completely his fault for the Bull's defensive miscues? I wrote the other day in the "bulls trade rumor" blog that the Bulls are bad defensively because they have poor rotation, don't help each other defensively and are constantly out of position. Seems Boylan agrees with me after saying that it was the worst help-defensive halves he has seen in a long time.........

Could have sworn they had their all Nba defensive team in there....Hinrich and Nocioni and Thabo and Ben Wallace and Noah and Thomas and.........well they couldn't guard the Timberwolves.

It is official: re-start from the top and work your way down the bottom. When I mean top, I don't just mean John Paxson --- start with kicking Jerry Reinsdorf's butt out of Chicago. Uncle Jerry, he of "organizations win championships" is the cancer that's killing this franchise. Refer to Jay Marriotti's columns. He is not interested in bringing in a franchise player.

When you read the headline fast it looks like something else. LOL!

I still wouldnt panick. They had their BEST player on the floor at home. This guy is an absolute beast! They are not the best team mind you, but this is the NBA and they were at home. Consider THEIR club who lost to the Bulls without 4 key contributers just last night. They have pride too! Bulls ran out of gas man. A back to back with all of those players out... I don't like it, but don't think they QUIT.

It is official: re-start from the top and work your way down the bottom. When I mean top, I don't just mean John Paxson --- start with kicking Jerry Reinsdorf's butt out of Chicago. Uncle Jerry, he of "organizations win championships" is the cancer that's killing this franchise. Refer to Jay Marriotti's columns. He is not interested in bringing in a franchise player.

Here's my offer:

I'd be willing to trade Hinrich, Duhon, Deng, Wallace, and Gordon for just one ambulatory player, and a bag of chips.

what if nobody showed up to the next home game?

or conversely...everyone show up and wear black...and be quiet as church mice

either way...Silence ...it's loud

Bulls are a bunch of A-Dollar Sign-Dollar Sign-holes.

one thing that has to happen immediately is NOCIONI needs to be placed in the starting line-up. he needs to play as much of the game as possible, his grit is one of the only things that is see bringing the bulls out of a rut like this almost halfway into the season

The Bulls have two real future allstars at this point that they should work around, Deng and Gordon. They play very well together. Look back on the last two years at their numbers when they are both on the court at the same time. They compliment each other like other good players sometimes do in basketball. We need to focus on them first and then add a Big in the middle who can score. My starting five would be Sefolosha, Gordon, Deng, Smith and Gasol. I would look to trade Hinrich and Wallace to the Grizzlies and get a couple of new role players from free agency during the summer. We need a couple of sharp shooters to help out with scoring. Defense wins championships but you have to have some type of offense. That is where the Bulls have found trouble.

This is a spoiled team that has been grossly overrated and sadly overpaid. Deng and Gordon aren't worth anywhere near the money they were offered. Wallace and Hinrich are both way too expensive for their play this year. I'm really tired of hearing how the team needs to "pay more" for top talent - this years mess is the result of PAYING TOO MUCH to players who don't give the effort. Anyone can throw big dollars at players indiscriminately. The key is signing professionals who will earn their check every night. A good GM does that.

Please don't blame injuries. Everyone has them. This team isn't hungry any more. It shows.

There are more white towels being thrown around in this blog than rat tail fest at a gay bath house...

PS

Asking me how i know will not be funny...or original.

I'd definitely take the trade route before I'd go tanking the season. We could still get as high as fifth in the weak East. I'd do everything in my power to explore trade possibilities if I were Paxson....and I agree with an earlier post that mentioned obtaining Jason Kidd. Why not give up Ben Gordon, Wallace and a 2009 first rounder (top 3 protected) for Kidd? You move Wallace's hideous contract and cancerous personality (which is what has killed this group.....NOT Scott Skiles or John Paxson), get Gordon out of here before we lose him for nothing and ship off yet another young player and we'd have Kidd for two years minimum. New Jersey would be getting much better players than the other offers that have been floating around in the press lately if this deal went down. In Chicago, Kidd would penetrate and make our young, long and lean players like Thabo, Tyrus, Joakim and Luol into studs. Kidd made Kenyon Martin and Mikki Moore look incredible, there's no telling what he could do here. And if worse came to worse and it didn't work out with Kidd, his contract is a year shorter than Big Bum's, so we'd free up the cash to sign someone else that much quicker. It all makes so much sense......which is why it probably won't happen.

Funny story about the Ben Wallace bobble head.

er uh...

Bobble Fro?

Hey you have to give it to Jim Boylan! He is doing a great job in making sure that the Bulls will hire a new coach at the end of the year. He is keeping the hopes of all Bull's fan alive that the Team will hire Van Gundy or Rick Carlisle(REAL Coaches) and dump Jim Boylan ASAP. How is Boylan doing this? Simple, he is playing Wallace major minutes every night thereby insuring the Bulls lose at least 70% of their games. A typical Wallace night against the Wolves, 8 boards 4 points in 35 minutes. All for just $15 million a year. How any coach could be so stupid to give Wallace 35 minutes a night? It is beyond me. Meanwhile A. Gray plays 15 minutes and gets 5 boards and 7 points. You do the math. Oh Wallace is on the floor for his defensive prowess you say? I guess that's why Al Jefferson had 25 points and 20 rebounds. Wallace is a cancer on the Team and a bad player to boot. Only Boylan is such a moron he can't see what Wallace really is. Maybe he's afraid of Wallace and his agent. Either way it's impossible to believe that he thinks Wallace deserves to start and will help lead them to victory. The good news is that he will soon get himself fired and the new coach will play the correct line-up: Hinrich, Thabo, Nocioni, Noah and Gray.

There are what 2 weeks before the trading deadline? And not a single rumor floating around mentioning the Bulls. What does that say about the value of Wallace, Gordon and Deng now? Keith keeps talking about how Wallace is important to have come play-off time but you have to make the play-offs first Keith and after Wednesday's performance it's looking more doubtful. Boylan hasn't managed to get this group of players focused and Skiles is probably kicked back with his 6 million and a miller lite contemplating hair club for men happy to be done with the Bulls.
Hiring a new head coach at this time wouldn't be fair to whom ever Pax would hire. But it's obvious Boylan isn't getting it done. Maybe it's time Pax came out of his office and told Boylan to move down one spot on the bench and take over the team he put together for the rest of the season re-evaluate what he has and start making plans for future moves. At the very least he should call his veteran players in one by one and let them know that if they don't start playing upto the money they are getting paid trades won't be just rumors. Would a statement like "cut the crap and commit to the Bull" cause another Chicago PC moment?

Ed in Richmond - Do you really believe every problem the Bulls have can be attributed to BEN WALLACE? Cmon man, be fair. Because Ben Wallace wasn't playing when Mr. Jefferson dropped 40 and 25 the other night. Dude is a bonefide beast.

Bulls are 500. And I have noticed how when the Bulls win - its Kirk, Noch and Noah's play. And when they lose - its because they no longer have Skiles, and Ben Wallace's fault. Ben Wallace got FAIR MARKET VALUE for his contract! Bulls snuck into Detroit and went to his home to get him, and we were doing back flips when he signed! He has a CHAMPIONSHIP RING, and 4 Defensive player of the year honors and the list goes on. He came to Chicago when NOBODY else would!!! And contrary to popular belief, guards the best player on the floor most nights - undersized! But we in Chicago think we need to bring in a player to compliment KIRK HINRICH!!!

Boylan knows EXACTLY what he is doing. And without Wallace, Jefferson drops a Kobe on our front line! Noah and Gray are the future, but Boylan needs some muscle right now.

Yall better listen to Brian A. and Jack.

The Bulls are quitters. This is the most embarrassing edition of a Chicago team in recent memory. For a city built on it's work ethic, we should be ashamed. I say that no one is untouchable and I'd start with our team leaders. At least Kirk has seemingly stepped up. Paxson needs to get off of his ass and move some of this dead weight. He has overvalued these guys. It's okay to admit when you're wrong and start over. The trade of Elton Brand pretty much sealed Krause's fate. Paxson's fate will be sealed by his lack of the sack to make a trade. Put Kirk, Noc, Thabo and Noah in the starting lineup and leave them there. They can start Ben Wallace at the 5. I think he will play better if the entire team is hustling. It's not a popular stance here, but I've seen Ben do well here and there recently.

Roman, where is my post? Was it the Converse thing?

boy oh boylan is only playing the team he is being told to play..... scott would not play ball so now he vacations.... luckily.... paxson needs a one way ticket to the nbadl to develop some gm skills.... this noah kid has some real fire these overhyped over paid vets hopefully will not throw too much water on it... our undersized center, WTF is his deal anyway? to much money, not enough size, not enough heart, this bum could not even sniff rodmans..... oh whatever... good news is help is on the way with trading deadline approaching.... hopefully... no all star reps from our hometown???...great job jerry, john, one hell of a half season!!!!!

The most over-used excuse to explain a loss is the "they must have quit" excuse. Couldn't it just be that they are not good enough to win? Coaches the say that their team isn't hustling hard enough, but the fact is, they are not that good, and that is why they are so inconsistent. Coaches will never admit to that, because they see their players every day, and are blinded to this fact.

I've seen every game and never once questioned their willingness to win.

They don't have the skill right now to win, period. Give this team to any coach and you'll get the same inconsistencies.

RogersPark Kris | February 1, 2008 11:00 AM - GREAT POST!!!

Excellent observation. I will bet you that Scott Skiles told Pax that the team plateaued. And i'd bet that Paxson disagreed. Paxson was right only because Skiles did not use all of his players and had lost the team. And enter Jim Boylan who has used every player. Bulls are not what Skiles thought they were, but they are not what Paxson thinks they might be either.

I look at other teams with similar records and say - they have a star - and some of them two stars! So be careful Pax. You have to bring in the RIGHT players. And for goodnes sakes - a NBA well-liked coach.

I read the posts and wonder if people see the same games I watch. The reason we have constantly had problems with Nets, Pistons, etc. is that Gordon is required to guard an active, BIG guard and just gets slaughtered. Then Hinrich is required to guard someone 3-6 inches taller because our "big" guard is 6'1" and needs to guard the smallest person on the other team. Thabo has proven this correct, better defense of the guards and Hinrich has been able to get off for a greater scoring offense. Missing Deng has Nocioni to play more and I think that has hurt him and his shooting %. Hard to be manic for 40+ minutes an second option on the team. The trade pieces are Gordon, Duhon, Tyrus, and maybe Wallace. Get TWO guards if possible, true point guard and 6'5-7" off guard. They are more available then a scoring big. It's time to train Noah, Thabo and Gray for the future. If we make the playoffs the experience will be great. It would take a miracle to reach the heights predicted at the start of the year.

Paxson doesn't have the sack to make a trade. I think he is so in love with his team that he couldn't bear to part with them this summer. Well this team is so hated that it almost makes me long for the days of Trenton Hassel and Kevin "Airball" Ollie! They might have had the talent of nine year old girls but atleast they gave it their all.

The bulls have so good pieces but they have to much redundant talent. All big guys that cant score and all little soft guys that can't drive to the basket. Same problem for 3 years and Paxson never replaced curry who he forced out of town with his agenda to get rid of all krause's players no matter what. Paxson is over matched as a GM if he honestly thought this team could compete!!! LOL the only team they have beaten in the playoffs in the last ten years is a broken down Maimi team that everyone tears up! Paxson you are dumb and delousional!

KLSS prior post after Bulls beat T-wolves: "Ask Culzie how he liked those 4 steals Wallace had last night against that beast?"

KLSS after Bulls loss " Because Ben Wallace wasn't playing when Mr. Jefferson dropped 40 and 25 the other night".

Keith - I, like many others here, strongly disagree (or is it "strenuously object") with your Wallace kool-aid.

How is it that big ben is the reason for the 4 steals against jefferson, but not the reaons behind the 40 and 25? Dont get me wrong, wallace isn't the only reason they stink but he's the obvious target for LOTS of reasons.

I agree, jefferson is a man. I laugh when people wonder why the Bulls couldn't get KG - well...let's see, it might have something to do that McHale knew the Bulls didn't have anything even close to big AL.

Paul Gasol to Lakers for Kwame Brown!!!!

Way to go Pax!!

Lakers trade Kwame Brown for Grizzlies' Gasol
Robert Gauthier/Los Angeles Times

The Lakers have traded center Kwame Brown (right), guard Javaris Crittenton and a series of draft picks between the two teams, to the Memphis Grizzlies for forward-center Pau Gasol.
By Mike Bresnahan, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
12:47 PM PST, February 1, 2008
The Lakers have acquired forward-center Pau Gasol from the Memphis Grizzlies for center Kwame Brown, guard Javaris Crittenton and a series of draft picks between the two teams, The Times has learned

Did anyone hear about the Lakers-Memphis trade? Gasol for Kwame Brown and Crittendon?? You mean to tell me the Bulls couldn't have packaged a better deal than that? Smith & Duhon, Noah and Big Ben? WTF? We missed out on another possible good trade. Where was Pax at when all this was being proposed? Must have been caught up or something but he really missed the boat on letting Gasol get away for Kwame Brown!!!!!

Tommy - for the record - I was refering to the 39/19 Jefferson hung on Amarie Staudemire and the Suns and the 40/25 he hung on New Jersey.

NOW INSPITE OF HOW CHICAGO FEELS (and most of it has to do with Scott Skiles firing) Listen to what MINNESOTA wrote:

Minnesota Website:

Forget the fact that the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Chicago Bulls played back-to-back nights in what could arguably be two of the worst NBA games to watch this season. Only two things kept the fans from leaving the arenas early in Chicago and Minnesota – blizzard conditions outside and Al Jefferson vs. Ben Wallace inside.

In spite of Wallace's obvious decline, he can still dig in and defend in the post. Although not as dominant as he once was, Wallace can still keep you from getting where you want to go, beat you up while you try to get there, and block your shot once he stops your move. The Bulls still recognize his defensive ability and don't double in the post as often as other teams, allowing Big Ben to defend his turf and his man on his own.

The Lakers get Gasol..........the Bulls get NOTHING. Great job Paxson. When are the Bulls going 2 fire this guy? How long can he live off of ONE jumpshot?

my bad on the other Ben game...

I'm with MG...I don't think Gasol is Larry Bird but I do think he would help A LOT.

How does LA get him for Kwame effin Brown???? This guy was boo'd off his home court last week.

unreal...Earth to Pax...come in Pax

Boy let's signing another big free agent like Ben Wallace and watch him play 35 minutes grab 5 boards and score 2 points.

Aaron Gray plays half that amount of time and produces better stats and what are we paying him.

Ben Wallace "Biggest Stiff Ever in Chicago Sports"

Has anyone ever considered the possibility that Gasol took a good look at the Bulls, and then told his agent to inform them that if they acquired him via trade, he'd stay in his hotel room for the duration of the season?

I sure wouldn't want to play with these mopes.

Kobe has to be wiping his brow and saying, "Whewwwww!!! I'm sure glad that I didn't get my wish.".

Actually Romo, I have your next blog topic:

Should Paxson be fired for incompetence?...or

Is Paxson awake?

Tim sez: "Would a statement like "cut the crap and commit to the Bull" cause another Chicago PC moment?"

Please Tim ... they're already upset enough about our excessive use of the derogatory term, "Bull S#%t". Even your use of of the phrase, "cut the crap" might be deemed offensive.

Wash your mouth out with soap, say ten "Hail Keiths", and perform an act of contrition.

Yeah I heard about that trade on the way home. But before we lose our minds - consider this...Jerry West - LOS ANGELES LAKERS...

look at other teams with similar records and say - they have a star - and some of them two stars! So be careful Pax. You have to bring in the RIGHT players. And for goodnes sakes - a NBA well-liked coach.

Posted by: Keith Lifetime Southsider | February 1, 2008 11:58 AM
****************

Keith Southsider, if you owned a business and an employee produces what Ben Wallace is doing (or NOT DOING more succintly) are you stating you would keep him at such an exorbitant salary.

You have incessantly bickered about this on several blog entries and it has become quit annoying. You are now falling into the mode of bculz (who posts I don't read)

Ben Wallace SUCKS! And if he was on your team you would not like the production that he is producing. Quit picking on Kirk Hinrich if you are going to bolster Ben Wallace! You are simply not making sense man!

You admit Ben Wallace has obviously decline, but in the same breathe try to state he can play man to man defense. IS THAT ALL HE CAN DO? We need more from the guy, OKAY? If dude would give us at least 12 points - 10 or 12 to 15 rebounds a night, some block shoots on top of playing defense(WHICH IS EXPECTED, DAMMINT) I could see you boasting about the guy. He is not doing that!

AND PLEASE GET OFF THE LIKEABILITY FACTOR OF A COACH!! Just because I do not like my boss does not mean that I can come to work and loaf around! Not if I like eating, keeping a roof over my head and clothes on my back! These are some spoiled azz players who you want the GM to find a coach to breast-feed their sorry butts. No! Freaking No! Hell Naw! -- and guess what Keith, I bet have more people agree with me than you!

Again, until Ben Wallace have a few monster games string together, leave Kirk Hinrick alone!!

How come you guys can live off the 1985 Bears for several decades but when
it comes to the Chicago Bulls everybody got diarehha of the mouth?
I believe they won six championships rather recent for our city
remember? (you know TWO - THREE-PEATS)!

Oh the fickle Chicago Sports Fan, Roman!

DA BULLS ALWAYS HAVE AN EXCUSE. DA FACT IS BIG-BIG-BIG UNDER ACHIEVERS. PAX MUST GO.

*sheesh*...

good question...

answer...

Winning the NFL Championship is like finding the Holy Grail....

Winning an NBA championship is like having your Bachelor Party at a bottomless Strip Club.

I see that the Lakers picked up Gasol for a high school bust player.
See how easy that was Pax?
Pax?
Are you still here?

KLTSS, of course I believe Ben Wallace is the source of all the Bull's problems, Paxson and Boylan notwithstanding. Here's why Ben Wallace is the main reason the Bulls have fallen apart:
1, He is supposed to be a leader on a young Team and instead he is a cancer. The only thing he leads the team in is helping get Skiles fired, giving no effort on the floor, missing shots and free throws, leading a vote to sit Noah for a 2nd game, laughing on the bench during Bull's losses and cashing paychecks.
2, He is the highest paid player yet produces stats worthy of a CBA player.
3, He is not a good defender or rebounder anymore.
4, Wasting minutes on him robs younger players of court time and opportunities to develop.
5, When he is on the floor it kills the offense and doesn't allow them to run any sort of effective plays. When the Bulls have the ball and Wallace on the floor they are essentially playing 4 on 5.
6, Having him on the floor causes the Bulls to be undersized at center which puts greater pressure on other players for defense and actually causes favorable match-ups for the other Team.
7, With Wallace on the floor the Bulls have no low post or inside scoring threat. Hence they can't get the ball inside and become a perimeter shooting team that lives and dies on jump shots.
8, In the middle he is incapable of passing out of a double team(Not that you need to double him because he has no offensive skills) and has bad hands to boot.
9, You can always do the hack a shaq on him and he will miss free throws(41% FT Shooter lifetime, the worst in history) so you can't have your highest paid player touch the Ball at the end of close games.
10, He is not a winner, Detroit won in spite of him not because of him.

You can fix the Bulls right now by cutting him, I don't even care to try and trade him, just get rid of him. Then fire Boylan and hire Van Gundy/Carlisle. Start Hinrich, Thabo, Deng, Noah and Gray and develop them as a team the rest of the year. Use Gordon, Nocioni, Thomas and Smith off the bench.
There I've just written a plan for Pax to follow that will save his job!!!

Pax tick tock tick tock your going to get fired. yeah right who am i kidding. The bulls are tanking and tanking fast. ssshh listen everyone can you hear that, its the sound of Nada damn thing happening. I am kidding go bulls.

Yes the Bulls are really sad this year. The worst part of this is Pax couldn't get a deal done for Gasol and the Lakers give up practically nothing for him. What does that say about Paxon's negotiating skills? Or his relationship with other GM's?

Keith Southsiders Friend: Please use the name Freddo Corleone. Unlike a lot of you, I know why Ben Wallace was brought in. I know what his job is. He has been hurt and still played. He was asked to take a leadership role, and when he did - by disciplining Krusty the Clown, folks got mad at him. People don't even know what Ben Wallace's job IS on the Bulls! Its to guard the center and patrol the post. The man is doing all of that while playing HURT. Ben was NEVER asked to score - go read Scott Skiles quotes (you love him dont you).

Ed in Richmond:

MARK MY WORDS... Ben Wallace is going to be Tyson Chandler all over again. You trully never miss a GOOD thing until its GONE. He just played against the hottest center in the league and held that guy in check (all things considered). Phoenix, NJ and many other teams had no answer, but the Bulls do and other teams know and respect that. What does Chicago want - to get rid of that guy. I don't think Wallace is the problem, and when he is gone...we got nothin but fool's gold. And right now...that is all Noah and Gray are.

Meanwhile - we had a coach that noone wanted to listen to - who was holding two-hour practices before a GAME!!! But we want him. And neither of the vangundy's are the answer! And if we had to take one - give me STAN. What Pax should do is bring in Scottie. At least for the rest of this season. Its going nowhere anyway. I like Boylan, but this is a unique opportunity to see what Scottie has. Quite frankly, I think he could be player/coach and could run some point for us if we are NOT going to bring in a playmaker!!!

And we have a point guard who thinks he is a defensive specialist and makes noone around him better. EVERY big man that we have traded or cut has done better on other teams. Teams that are supposed to be the worst in the league?? But we love this point guard who is supposed to be THE CAPTAIN and playmaker. Hasnt led or made any plays. And I don't want to hear about him being tired and not able to shoot and pass! EVERY player in the league has to play BOTH sides of the ball. I can take it when people call Ben Gordon out for not defending (but at least he scores), but its hypocritical to then turn around and give Kirk a pass for not being a good point guard. Since when did running point Stop Scottie from being a good defender? Or since when did Scoring stop Mike from playing defense? KIRK AAAAAAND GORDON are guilty. Kirk should be making passes for the fans, not receiving passes from us. BE FAIR!

It comes down to JOB DESCRIPTION not contract. Look at each player and see if they fit the definition of COACH, Point Guard, Shooting Guard, Small Forward, Power Forward, Center.
Coach is supposed to make players produce provide a gameplan.
Point is supposed to make assists and run the offense. Score when NEEDED.
Shooting guard is supposed to score.
Small Forward is supposed to score and rebound.
Power Forward is supposed to rebound and defend and score around the basket.
Center is supposed to defend the rim, block out and rebound and score around the basket.

And to those who don't like my posts - just skip them, or counter my points, but don't hate. Be a good sport, because I am and would never hate on you. Just be fair, and keep the expletives.

Mark Villano after hearing that Gasol went to the Lakers (and Keith I don't buy that crap your saying about Jerry West and the Lakers, if that's the case we should get Okafor from Charlotte for zip from MJ) I made several expletive statements, all of them PUC and immediately washed my mouth with a few cold beers and said 3 Oh Gawd what the F's and commited an act of civil disobedience. I'm actually surprised that Pax didn't try to get Earl Boykins before Charlotte did because we obviously don't have enough short guards. Looking ahead at the next 7 games this team will be lucky if they are 1-6 in that stretch. Miami being the only possible win. They are no match for the 6 west coast teams they will face.
Yea go Bulls

Seems to me that the Bulls have had just a terrible string of bad luck & incompetency. The years when we had top picks in the draft, the draft didn't have the LeBrons, Carmelos, Odens, Durants, etc. With the exception of Tyrus Thomas, the Bulls have done a pretty good job of drafting based on the talent available and the expectations of players at the time. We've lost out on Tracy McGrady, but had the misfortune of "winning" the Ben Wallace sweepstakes just as his career was about to tank. There has been a couple of big trades lately in Gasol & Garnett where the Bulls have been royally dissed. In Gasol, there's no question that we had a bigger & better collection of talent to offer to the Grizzlies, but it just so happens that when they finally decided it was time to unload his contract, their main focus was salary cap relief...which we couldn't provide. In Garnett, we were one of the main suitors for years, and then we they decided to move him, they chose one big talent in Jefferson, instead of a collection of talent that the Bulls could offer. And after seeing what the Bulls are doing, I think the 'Wolves may have made the right call. In any event, since Jordan retired, there has been a long string of missed opportunities & just plain bad luck. It seems like we are getting repaid for the years of having the best player in history on our team, and all those championships.

Southsider you are a waste of space, it says comments not chat room. If you want to chat go to myspace this is a sports blog. ED in Richmond your right on. Play the youth see what else could comp them. Mayo will probably come out he could make a nice piece the Bulls need someone bigger guard who can find his own shot and everyone else will get better. And I like the idea of Carlyle or VanGundy, they are better coaches for young teams. Look at the Blazers. Paxson get it right or get out.

O.K. Ed in Richmond, that's enough!

Your points taken about the Bulls are well received, but to blame Wallace and Boylan for this whole mess is almost as confusing as your ever changing line-ups.

It wasn't Wallace who said, "Hey Bulls, I was the key to Detroit winning, I'm gettin' better with age, and I can shoot the lights out of the rock, better pick me up." No, that was the genius Paxson thinking this guy may be the missing piece to the puzzle and was dead wrong.

It wasn't Boylan who said, "Hey Bulls, now that Scotty's been beamed up, can I give it a shot?" No, again! It was our fearless G.M. who figured a change was needed and Boylan MIGHT be able to handle the job in the interim.

I watched the other day when the Bulls had Thabo, Duhon, Hinrich, Gray and Thomas on the floor together (possibly one of your ever changing starting line-ups), and they got stuck in the mud at 52 points for a whole SIX MINUTES AND TWENTY THREE SECONDS.

I want to believe you're "ALWAYS RIGHT" and I'm the only "HATER", but your track record is holding up like a card castle on the windiest of Chicago days.

Please, before you start swelling in your collar, just go back to January 15th and start reading your posts. Count your "HATE" for Ben Wallace and write down every line-up you said "SHOULD BE" the starting line-up. Even the two line-ups you put on THIS BLOG ALONE are different?

How can us novices bow to the "ALL KNOWING ED IN RICHMOND" when even he lost in his own bewilderment? Or is it bewilderment lost in him?

Hmmm?

Confused?

Good, 'cause I sure in the hell am.

Hey Anthony I was rough on my fellow bloggers at first but it's all in clean fun and all of us are tired of the same old same old. As fans in the second largest market and we have the worst atmosphere for players that no one wants to come here. But we diss the players and the powers that be are the ones who assembled this crud. This city had some good runs but as usual the powers that be get full of themselves and want to prove their all knowing wisdom and disassemble it or tweak it but never leave it alone. The Sox were the same Kenny outsmarted himself lost the heart and soul then put too much on Konerko. Krause, enough said. Bears change coaches (Rivera) players Anderson for Brown, Bulls simple miscalculation Gordon and Deng are not franchise players, Wallace past prime. I don't blame Wallace he is what he is Paxson overvalued him, Deng and Gordon. And fans sling all kinds of hopes and thoughts some good some not so good, but somewhere somehow this city needs a franchise not afraid to admit a mistake start from scratch and get it right. Owners you would be suprised how much a little honesty and prudence would go. As it stands no one wants to come here and play and until you change that atmosphere it will never change. Kudos southside, ed and bculz keep it real fella's

Hey KLTSS you're right we're going to miss Ben Wallace when he is gone. Another Team is bound to really want him, especially after the great job he did tonight "holding" Brad Miller to a mere 22 points and 20 rebounds. I shudder to think what Miller would have done if Wallace hadn't been out there. Let's look at your own words to see what a center is supposed to do.
"Center is supposed to defend the rim, block out and rebound and score around the basket." Let's see how Wallace did according to your criteria: Defend the rim. NOT! Miller had 22 points. Block out. NOT! Again Miller 22 rebounds. Rebound NOT! Wallace 9 rebound in 35 minutes. Score around the basket. NOT! Wallace 9 points. In fact in the last 7 minutes of the game the Bulls couldn't get the ball inside with Wallace in the middle because he CAN"T score around the basket. KTLSS I love your loyalty to the Bulls but Wallace doesn't fit any of your own criteria for a center. Let him go, I guarantee NOBODY else out there wants a $60 million dollar stiff.
Anthony, thanks for reading my posts so closely. I guess it's true that you are my biggest fan and that my brilliant analysis is what keeps you reading my posts. I do keep changing the line-ups, thanks for noticing. Sometimes it's because of injuries to certain players, sometimes match ups. However, I am consistent on wanting Wallace out of the line-up and off the team. I guess I am a HATER because I HATE seeing Wallace on the floor. After you get rid of him I think there are several line-ups that could be effective, all of which I have posted on this blog. I agree with you on one thing that Paxson is the one who has caused this entire mess. Having said that I do really believe that Wallace and Boylan are the two biggest problems on the Team right now. Wallace, it's obvious why and Boylan because that idiot keeps putting Wallace on the floor. I am a HATER when it comes to Boylan because I HATE seeing him play Wallace 35 minutes a game while Gray rots on the bench. The only good thing about Boylan playing Wallace is that it will insure that he will be fired at year's end. By the way does Gray remind anyone of a young 7' 270lb center who used to be on the Bulls? You know the one the Bulls traded away. You know the one who dropped 22 points and 20 rebounds on Ben Wallace. Lucky Boylan put Wallace out there to stop Miller instead of Gray because Miller might have had a big game instead of being shut down by Wallace. KLTSS and Anthony admit the truth when you read it!!!! This Team is dead as long as Paxson, Boylan and Wallace are on the payroll!

Kudos southside, ed and bculz keep it real fella's

Posted by: djssr | February 2, 2008 07:57 PM

YOu know it DJ

Bculz "Up in the Field"

I often wondered what happened between last year and this year to the Chicago Bulls. I thought that they would build on last year's experience to challenge the Detroit Pistons and Cleveland Cavaliers for supremency in their division but the only thing that they're challenging is last place in the division. As far as I can see the players are not the only one that's quitting on the season. It seems that management is quitting on the season also. I mean you have a chance to get Pau Gasol from Memphis for basically nothing compared to what we got Ben Wallace for. As least Gasol can score and have the potential to make everyone around him better. Management should have been on this one like white on rice but I hate to say this but Reinsdorf seems to be on this penny pinching mode again because of his involvement in the White Sox.

A quick glance at the box score from last night's game and it's easily seen why the Bulls lost. 7 missed free-throws, one less free-throw attempt than the Kings made (34 attempted by the Bulls, 35 made by the Kings, three of which were technicals.) and 19 turn-overs and in the +/- column all the Bulls starters in the (-) yet all the bench that played in the (+). Boylan has said Gray's playing time depends on available match-ups, what better match-up could there be if not Brad Miller? Yet Gray played 0.0 minutes last night while Miller controlled the boards at both ends and scored 22 points, 12 from the line.
Now the latest rumor is that Artest will opt out of the last year of his contract with the Kings and the Kings just might trade him before the dead-line. Now I understand bad boy Ron doesn't quite fit the choir-boy role the Bulls seemed to have fallen in love with the past few years BUT Artest is capable of playing either the 2,3 or 4 position and is a great defender. He's averaging 18.4 pts./g, 5.6 reb/g and 2.1 steals, 35% from the arch and 70 % from the line. Not to mention the Bulls screwed up when they traded him and Miller to Indiana for Rose and company in the first place. Everyone else seems to be able to get marquis players for a song and a bag of chips, come on Pax let's see what kind of cajone's you have. Offer Khryapa, Griffin and a second round pick.

Ed in Richmond, in actuality I'm with you on Wallace, Boylan and Paxson. Wallace has either fallen way off in one year or he was riding the coattails of the talented Pistons. Boylan has not adjusted well in his time on the hot seat and Paxson, well, let's just say Kenny Williams and he must eat at the same breakfast joint each morning. But the Bulls' problems are far and away more than the three.

I still have to vehemently disagree with your line-ups until we're out of the race. As bad as Wallace is playing, I'd bet the broken T.V. Mr. Van Gundy, Mr. Brown, Mr. Collins, or dare I say even Mr. Phil Jackson would start this guy. That's just the train of thought in the N.B.A. Start your 15 million dollar, veteran four time defensive player of the year. Too many times have I seen Noah not only fail to finish on a drive to the basket, but his two foot shots are not even shots, they're clumsy flails. NOT GOOD! Too many times have I seen a disinterested Tyrus Thomas shoot what POSSIBLY could be called some form of jumper, os drive to the basket, only to be called for a violation of some sort. NOT GOOD. Gray has tools. Gotta love this guy, but still a tad slow of foot and still learning. Does warrant more time, though.

The Bulls' switching and perimeter defense I believe to be their biggest achilles heel. The Three Stooges aside, they've lost many a game with their lack of defensive intensity. Sit Wallace all you want, but until we defend better, not much will change in the win column.

We live by the sword, but more often die by the sword. Until Noc starts taking the ball to the bucket with more frequency, Noah and Thomas play MUCH CLOSER to the bucket, and the offense learns to spread the court a little more, we've nothing much to lean on.

Dunks and lay-ups aside, we have some big time offensively challenged players. Duhon possibly may be in need of a seeing-eye-dog, Thomas is a one-trick-pony, Noah has forgotten to go vertical, not horizontal, when he has the ball, Grif has one move, Khryapa is suffering from bench arthritis, and Wallace is Wallace. That's fifty percent of your squad. Add Joe Smiths day to day aged knees and Grays lack of playing time and we just may be very lucky to have won as many as we have. It's not often I see our team on the court with more talent than the guys on the other side.

So, that leaves us with the key answer. Paxson. Or for those of us who remember to look in the shadows, Reinsdork.

Remember, you don't verbally abuse the the eight year old who cusses at you. You go to the source.

I don't care if you love Ben Wallace to death, and want him to father your children; there is no room on an NBA team for an undersized center who can't score in the post, or from the free throw line. No room whatsoever.

He is not a facilitator, he's no longer a top tier rebounder, he doesn't run the floor exceptionally well, and he can't shut down most of the bigger centers in the league.

Is scoring a dozen points a game too much to ask of a center?

Duncan and Chandler are able to do it, and even though O'Neal was a horrendous free throw shooter and didn't exactly transition at the speed of light, he could still put the ball in the basket, defend in the post, rebound, and block shots on a consistent basis when he was healthy and in his prime.

It's hard for any objective observer to make an intelligent argument in favor of Wallace when there are no stats to back it up. He appears to lose interest when the team trails by double digits late in the game, and he knows damned well that he won't get the ball in crunch time because fouling him is almost as good as a defensive rebound for the opposing team.

So I ask you; what value does he have? What are his so called intagibles?

I like making the comparrison between Wallace and Rodman. Dennis was a bit taller, in much better shape at Ben's current age, and although neither of them were offensive threats, Rodman played his damned heart out, and left it all on the court. He was a maniac on the boards, averaging 16 a night during all three of the Bulls final championship seasons, while driving the opposing players and their coaches insane.

Compared to Wallace, Rodman was worth his weight in gold, and anyone who would take Wallace over Rodman doesn't have a clue.

In fact, I'd take Dennis right now over Big Ben, and be willing to bet that the team would improve immediately.

Anthony no one accused Boylan of being a genius but the cheap Reins-Bulls will not pay a real coach mid season after shelling out dough to Skittles I mean Skiles. And remember Skiles wasn't playing young players either, he was busy shoving this disjointed mess up Paxson's you know where. Stop trying to make line-ups there is nothing you can do with this mess. Put the kids on the court let them play. It sure can't be any worse and maybe we might get a Aaron Gray sighting somewhere near the paint. I cannot believe how totally inept Noah looked around the basket, energy don't mean jack if you can't put it in the basket. Three consecutive times the Bulls with the game on the line went to it's so-called inside players and got nothing but missed free throws and really lousy shot attempts but boiling Boylan just stood there and looked confused, WGN even focused on him a lot. Sefalosa disappeared after the first half were'd he go? This doesn't even look professional anymore, Paxson STOP THIS FOOLISHNESS NOW!! How dare you and Reinsdorf present this as professional basketball at least the other losers in the league are playing their youngsters and letting them get experience you won't even do that. Paxson do us all a favor QUIT and take Boylan with you.

I cant keep track of who is on whos side anymore....???

You have to move both ben's for this team to have a chance a starting lineup of Noah ,Smith ,Deng ,Thabo ,and Hinrich. will match up well offensively and defensively with 85% of the league. Gray , Thomas, Noce, and whatever big guards you pickup for those guys would give us a solid rotation. With an emphasis on post up we have potential post up threats play Gray trade Wallace so he doesnt slow there development down. How good could Thabo be if he had playing time trade Ben give the kid a chance.

Paxson is in a tough spot. For the first time I am really mad about not getting a free agent. My eyebrows went up when I saw that Gasol trade. But I think it cost the Lakers 3 players and 3 draft picks, and money. These trades have to work out for both teams. But I am still disappointed, but not completely angry.

As tough as it was to see the Bulls lose, remember Deng is still out of our lineup. Once again, Bulls went to plan Gordon, and it worked as usual. Sacramento countered with THEIR star. While everyone is pointing fingers at Ben Wallace - it was RON (original gangsta) ARTEST, who slammed the Bulls on their backs. That was the nail, but the Key basket was made by PLAYMAKER Mike Bibby who pushed it right down the court after Gordon missed. Bibby had only two points for the entire game, but none was bigger. He had 7 assists also. (OUR PLAYMAKER was shooting and clanking shots.) Sacramento is returning almost 4 players from injuries. They are playing well and yes - ex-Chicago players play with a chip on their shoulders. And Brad Miller had one heck of a game against Ben Wallace. And he balled Wallace, but was the Bulls in position to WIN - and you have to say YES. And I know it looks bad in the post, but its not as bad as we think. Yall remember Tyson Chandler's old numbers as a Bull? I do! They were dismal, and the reason we got rid of him. EVERYONE crying for him to be traded. Now look at him.

REAL teams play 4 a chance 2 win titles. The Bulls play 4 a chnace 2 lose in the 1st round of the playoffs. What a joke this francise has become.

no doubts at all that Rodman could get more rebounds today than wallace

Gasol traded to the Lakers because johnny pax didnt want to give up a starter. management is drilling this time into the ground, and once Deng and gordon go somewhere else they wont have anyone to offer. PAX - STOP trying to mother these kids and do whats best for the team.....you got to give up quality if you want a quality player in return.

making the play-offs these days won't be enough for anyone to take the bulls seriously anymore, because everyone knows the Eastern Conference is a joke.....the 7th and 8th seeds are like 7-8 games under 500....look at the eigth seeds in the West....its obvious that making the playoffs here is not a big deal or a major accomplishment.

reinsdorf is a cancer to any sports team, putting the executive first before the people that actually do the work to make it work - the players. without a superstar (and nowadays you need more than 1) the bulls are hopeless.

keep curdling the players like a mother dog to her pups, PAX. it's sure looks like its working to me. we actually had Aldridge and Brandon Roy, but that was a bonehead move to choose Tyrus and sefalosha over them. does this guy even know what he's doing anymore? or is he blinded by his past success in the 2004 draft that now he's too stubborn to deviate a little?

God please help my Bulls....

The owner of the Memphis tried to trade Gasol to the bulls, but he said that the Bulls wouldn't give up a starter. I'm STILL trying to think of that one (or two, or three) player(s) Paxon wouldn't give up!

I understand experience is a big factor in this league but if someone doesn't fit into the scheme of your team you sit him (Tim Thomas). I appreciate that Paxson tried to improve our team by getting Wallace since when the trade happen we were competing with Miami and who in the league played Shaq better at that time. However what teams have decided to do is simple double off of wallace for the 32 minutes he averages on the floor. Who can shoot with constant double teams in their face ? No one but thats what the bulls face every night. Thats the biggest offensive challenge and one easily corrected and was done sometimes in wins. Bench wallace but better than that trade wallace. Yes noah misses layupsbut in half the time he gets half the rebounds, more points, and a better freethrow percentage. However dont stop there give Gray 24 minutes he can count on and watch the rebirth of Ilgauskas slow footed but productive hell in a 10 minutes a game he already averages the same 4 points a game as wallace who plays 3 times his amount. Give us a post up game and some one who'll get fouled and someone who in pick and roll can take advantage of the switch in the post rather than kicking out the ball and resetting the offense. I have no problem with the effort the bulls have put forth they've been in more games than not and they usually have 1 quarter they wish they had back but thats the value of a post up game gives people better shot options, less run outs on shots for the defense, makes teams defend longer, draws fouls, can open up chances for our shooters. Can also give our primary scorers a must needed rest by provided them with a scoring option near the rim. In a perfect world our starting lineup can all be feared as scorers what a concept.

JERRY REINSDORK IS CHEAP!NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE THESE CHEAP OWNERS MINDS IN CHICAGO UNLESS WE STOP ATTENDING GAMES AND PROTEST OUTSIDE THE BERTO CENTER AND HALLAS HALL!!WHY ARE WE SOOO DEDICATED TO OWNERS WHO RIP US OFF!!!???PLEASE CHICAGO FANS PROTEST AND STOP ATTEDING GAMES.FILE A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE MCKASKEYS AND RIENSDORK FOR FRAUD!!!!

Thanks bculz, now Boylan hey are you there? lets use the old cliche the kids can play. Well let them I know John ( pack it in) Paxson doesn't want to waste 60 million dollars oops my bad you already did. Mark V. said who needs a center who can't post up and can't shoot free throws. He is retarding the growth of a 7 footer who can shoot and post (duh) this is a lost cause. If they bring energy and exitment it will keep the stadium rocking this year and give you a real idea whats needed next year. Mayo or Indiana's Gordon would look mighty good or maybe Rose gets out early. But this stuff MUST STOP NOW SIT BEN W. DOWN. Trade little Ben get some value.

MG - its a process. Bulls have made steps to get us into the playoffs, and now its no longer good enough.

DJSSR - I agree with that ONLY if we are going to rebuild. That means no playoffs and the whole franchise taking a step back. That means dumping Wallace, Smith, Gordon, Deng, Griffin, Kryapa, Noch, and I would also deal Hinrich. A TOTAL Overhaul. And this time with players that have length and size. And that means fans need to quit crying about playoffs and championships for a minimum 5 more years.

Bulls have been in the playoffs for almost 5 straight years. They have done ALL they can without the addition of a bonefide star. Someone mentioned that Skiles may have realized that and jumped ship like a rat. Good riddance too, because the Bulls realy need a next-level guy anyway - especially if they were to bring in a star and continue to try and win - which I recommend. I believe we are 3 players away from a true Championship run.

good point about the playoffs