Full Court Press

Apparently a bit of a bait and switch with the names...WNBC got their hands on the original list which included other names (if I mention, Romo won't post this). That list included 3 cubbies and another mvp....(getting dangerously close to Romo not posting this again).

You don't see what good will come out of this? Please tell me you're joking. I think some young athletes might be better informed today than they were yesterday that the use of performance enhancing drugs is illegal and potentially very harmful to your health. I doubt any action will be taken against the players named in the report, as Mitchell himself recommended that nothing happen retroactively. So what bad is going to come of it? This is straight from the report:

"If Major League Baseball players send a message that the illegal use of performance enhancing drugs is acceptable, more young athletes will use these substances as they emulate these prominent figures. This common sense conclusion is well supported by the facts. After the Associated Press reported in August 1998 that Mark McGwire was using androstenedione, a steroid precursor that was legal at the time, sales of that supplement increased by over 1,000%. McGwire may not have wanted to be a role model, but he was."

Sorry, but some good has to come out of this. The report also says that hundreds of thousands of high school kids are still using illegal steroids. This shouldn't be acceptable to anyone.

Why is a senator investigating baseball for 2 yr's plus?We pay them to manage our States,make thing fair free and protect our constitution!Not waste time investigating baseball.They should waste thier time on Gas prices,pharmacutical companies,immagration and alot more!Have the DEA investigate it. Senator stick to what you should really be doing!

No worries because as long as they don't have perceived cranial enlargement and a really bad disposition no-one will prosecute them. Feds have that guy anyway "wink wink".

Mitchell recommends that we just sweep it under the rug. No need to go after likeable people. Likeable people are perceived to have natural or average size craniums. If Kurt Schilling doesnt have a problem - hey whats the big deal. Baseball is a pure American sport with good ole boys not like Boxing. Just need to clean up the sport from these guys with all the attitude. Baseball players don't lie to the government gosh darnit! I see why Kurt was so disgusted! Big Mac and Babe are my heroes - no asteriks by their records! Real American Heroes!

For every player named in this report, there are probably 10 who aren't. You can't tell me it wasn't much more widespread. These named players just happened to be associated with the trainers who ratted them out. I'm sure there are trainers on other Teams who wouldn't cooperate with the investigation. Funny thing is, the only person I believe thats telling the truth is Jose Canseco!!

What good could come out of this??? A lot of good. Basically the fans were cheated. We were cheated by Sosa/McGuire, even as a Sox fan, that home run race was spectacular on a lot of levels. But it was a charade. Clemens? Charade. Yankees World Series Title run, charade. Second basemen hitting 40 HRs, charade. Ha Ha you are.

So where's the good?

Frank Thomas is now a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee.

(i guess that's all i can think of, but I think this this hurts the fans of the game, more than any player or owner, all of who have been paid very well)

If MLB does nothing in the wake of what has been revealed then it has been a major waste of time, money and energy. Should Bonds Record be wiped out? No but it should carry a foot note with it about the use of performance enhancing supplements. Should the likes of Bonds and Clemens be allowed in the Hall Of Fame? I don't think so. Eight players were banned from baseball for cheating that was never conclusively proven in 1908 and they're names are remembered only for that. Pete Rose was banned for gambling and will be remembered more for that than what he did on the field. Therefore I believe that those proven to have used steriods to cheat be banned from any chance to be admitted to the Hall of Fame and be remembered as cheaters not superstars. As far as the previous post about a senator wasting time investigating steroid use...isn't exposing the proliferation of steroids in an effort to eliminate it's use by young athletes in the interest of the country? Should the DEA have investigated this instead? probably but considering it's ineffectiveness in keeping cocaine and other hard drugs out of the country steroids don't even pop up on their radar. MLB took such a big hit after the strike that I believe a blind eye was turned on steroid use because there was a need for something to re-ignite the fan base. Oh for the days when the worst a ball player was, was a beer swilling,cigar smoking arrogant character.

Two things stood out to me:
The underlying tone of Selig and his lackey Mitchell that much of the problem was in the past and that it isn`t as ramnpent now as in and prior to 2003. That`s festering baloney!
Secondly, Mitchell says that all future testing should be done by an independent lab to avoid suspision! This investigation is a hipocritical joke; Mitchell is by no means independent due to him being affiliated with the Red Sox and having being selected by Selig. It is like when senators from a particular party form a panel to investigate the alleged crimes and lies of people within their own party!

The penalties for cheats is a joke. If baseball really cared, suspend first-time users for a year and void their contracts and give a lifetime ban to second-timers. Does anyone know what happens in horse racing to the purses, owners and trainers of horses that are found to be drugged??? I am curious.

I read through most of the report, and don't think there was enough an investigation to determine at least who else was on the juice.

The "investigation" relied basically on other investigations--BALCO, Radomski, the Pharmacy--and a few searches of cars and bags going through customs. None of the expected suspects, such as Sosa, was compelled to testify or undergo testing. Apparently, other players who had contacts other than through BALCO or Radomski were not detected. We don't know if there are other rogue trainers distributing banned substances.

This is even less satisfying than the wrestling investigation. Although Vince McMahon didn't independently find violators of his wellness policy, he at least suspended those implicated by an prosecutor's investigation of Signature Pharmacy. There doesn't seem to be enough proof in this report to suspend any players, and Mitchell said that they shouldn't be disciplined.

Jim Parque?.....Butter

I have to agree with Julie...Also..McGwire used Andro as a diversion first of all...that stuff is "all the side effects and none of the benefits" in regards to roids....the stuff is crap....lol, a bunch of limp, balding 22 year olds with tits...and no more muscle than they woulda had to begin with...Thanks Mark

Just keep them out of the Hall...don't recognize their stats

That would be the "good" that would come out of this

I think I need a subscription to the SunTimes....

whats the deal with Out of State readers? Are they on a next day thing, or does ST have local printers??

If so, sign me up...or point me where I can sign up....i need to see the paper. I miss it, the crossword puzzle & Horoscopes the most.

Heres the deal with the missing names...only the NewYork Mets and Yankees towel boys sung. There will be MANY MORE SHOES to drop.

Operation RAW DEAL ...is in full effect..google it;

Its another Federal Case about designer and raw steroid manufacturers!!!!

nO QUESTION that its a bad trend for young atheletes.

But money and power corrupt absolutely....and..well..there is a lot of money in this little game.

but as far as record books go, either they all get *'s or none of them should EVEN BARRY.

I haven't read it yet and probalby won't, which I guess qualifies me for commissioner of baseball. Selug has reached a new low.

Can't wait for his buddies Canning's Cronies to get their mitts on the cubs, will make the tribune ownership's benign neglect seem like the good old days, well they already are.

The party is over in Wrigleyville folks, instead we'll have marketing 101, advanced finance and stadium swindles part 3. Not to mention pay parking for what a ticket used to cost, but families will still be able to afford to drive to the ballpark, park and listen to the game on the radio, if they can find the station it is on.

Oh, mike in fort wayne, George Mitchell is a retired Senator, he also would like to be baseball commissioner someday, but probably never will be now after this report.

Mike in Fort Wayne asks: "Why is a senator investigating baseball for 2 yr's plus?"

Perhaps it's because he's a former senator.

these are the things we will remember when we look back at our parents generation. This is another thing that the baby boomers
will be remembered for. Do things like this impact our society as negatively as segregation(pre-baby-boomer)? I do not belive so..but still I think that this will only define the years of corruption and rampant drug use. What has generation x learned from this? That those miserable people who spoke so vividly "I hope I am dead when your generation runs the country.", shows their fear in a different light, for a different reason. Thanks for the memories, mom and dad.

They can take all the drugs they want!
I DON'T CARE!
It's their bodies, not mine.
If they want to make huge amounts of money, be famous & get loads of women in exchange for a shortened life, THEN GO FOR IT!
Stop saying that they're role models & kids will do it too.
Kids do what their parents do & if their parents are obsessed with sports then so are the kids.
Get rid of colleges as the pros farm teams.
Make the colleges pay the players, not just give them scholarships.
And Congress & that halfwit in the White House pontificating on this?
What a joke from a group of drunks, addicts & general slime!

I think some good may come out of it, but largely it feels like a dog & pony show to me. Like the Warren Commission or independent prosecutors, it's mostly sizzle, no steak. (Excuse the metaphor Romo: I know you're vegan.)

Mostly I think it's going to lead to a lot of griping by the fans and the media about records and history and integrity, and it'll keep a lot of lawyers for players busy. But do I really think Bonds or Clemens or any other player will actually face something like jail time? Not a chance.

By way of comparison, look at how the NFL has handled behavior by its players in the last five years. Vick did some stupid things on his private property not involving the game (and I'm *not* saying his actions didn't warrant prosecutors), and that all was address -- PRONTO. Baseball takes years for things that effected the game and were in plain sight? Please.

YAWN... yawn... yawn..

cheating has always been a part of sports, if one could get away with it.. Eventually it even becomes a part of the "lore" - e.g. Ty Cobb, Gaylord Perry, etc

it's also not surprising to me that the bulk of the "cheaters" are borderline players in the first place.

Would you rather play ball and be paid minimum baseball salary or would you rather work some kind of real 9-5..(or much longer) "job"?

the answer to that is EASY.... very very easy and it's a decision I'd be willing to bet 99% of us (even blowhards like Marriotti, or even a Telander, whom I otherwise highly respect) would make.

Of course the "outcry" will come from the "it takes a village crowd" - WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?

what about them?

Charles Barkley was man enough to state the obvious - he's not around to be anybody's role model!

I tried roids when I was 18 - shortly after getting into a weight room for the first time and seeing its effects on some friends. We all tried them. We weren't even playing competitive sports, and surely at 18, we didn't need the main effect of roids which is the sharply acceleated "recuperative effect" which enabled harder and more intense training.

why did we do roids? to look good for the chicks, that's why.

If I were on a sports team and saw others doing them, beating me because I wasn't.. would I do them? damn right I would.

I "might" do them anyway --- (though would very strongly prefer not to)... I completely totally understand the reasoning why athletes do them, particularly the borderline ones.

However, there is a broader point here, and on this I fully agree with everyone else.. the fundamental issue of "fairness", meaning the playing field should be made as level as it possibly can be..

either laissez faire... shoot up with whatever you want... or TRULY DRACONIAN, super tight drug control - none of this mamby pandy in between stuff. I'm comfortable with either or.. but it has to be one of those 2 options.

seems like we're drifting towards the draconian which is fine by me but once again in this stupid society... basically harmless supplements like ephedra get banned because some really fat kid or athlete doesn't stick to recommended usage and falls over and dies.

the lawyers get involved.. the lawsuits start up, the it takes a village schoolmaster marm crowd starts screaming "what about the children" and the inanity begins all over again.

I read Canseco's book "Juiced". Since he wasn't one of the "good-old boys" in the baseball network, he told all. Players like Cal Ripken, Mark McGwire, and Alex Rodriguez were media darlings, whereas guys like Albert Belle and Jose were treated like buffoons. Jose believed he was blackballed from the majors, so why hide anything? Just like in school, work, politics, family, there's favorites and clics, where certain people are treated better than others. Baseball is no different. It's just the way we are as a society.
I read "Game of Shadows", by the SF reporters. Their premise is that in any highly competitive sport, there will always be those seeking an edge. Throw in Big Money, Glory, and the temptation to cheat is huge. Their book focuses not just on Bonds and baseball players, but Olympic athletes, weightlifters, NFL players, any customers of BALCO. All the athetes were willing to break the rules, for the glory and rewards. Bonds did state that he was not part of the "good-old white boy" network, he saw the accolades McGuire and Sosa were getting in their 1998 homerun derby, Bonds realizes no one in baseball is doing anything to stop this, so he decides to do what the others are doing. Do you blame Bonds? I don't. Looking back, it was disgusting that the media spouted off that Sosa-McGuire "saved baseball". Because Victor Conte talked to anyone and everyone, and the FBI allowed an agent to pursue the matters, all the BALCO customers were exposed.
So where are we? There's so much Television/Advertising money at stake, I don't expect much change. Baseball still has it's code of silence, new labs are cooking up new types of undetectable drugs, everything goes more underground. For me, a 50-year-old fan, baseball as well as all pro sports don't get any of my money. They're entertainers, and in the end, they don't really matter.

There has never been a scientific study undertaken that proves a positive correlation between steroid use and a baseball player's ability to hit home runs.

However, there HAVE been scientific studies undertaken that prove a positive correlation between an increase in the number of home runs hit at the Major League level - and the "juiciness" of the baseballs used in any particular year.

If you'd like me to point you to these studies, as well as the mountain of evidence that implicates juiced baseballs - not juiced baseball players - as the real culprits behind the Major League home run boom, I'd be glad to do that. (I know you guys are searching for the truth 24/7, so just ask...wink wink.)

A little child with the IQ of a gerbil could look at the year-to-year home run totals for Major League Baseball and smell a rat. Baseballs have been juiced to increase the distance that they travel since way back in Babe Ruth's day. During McGwire and Sosa's "battle" back in '98, the balls were juiced to the point where they were basically super balls. Same thing happened back in '61 when Maris and Mantle slugged it out. When attendance levels drop, when strikes loom and the fans get disgruntled, the juiced baseballs appear - and all is well again for Major League Baseball's bottom line.

I'm surprised you guys haven't heard about this juiced baseball thing.

Maybe you didn't get the memo?

You....don't see what good can come out of rooting out major cheaters in the game of baseball.

mmmkay.

Any early favorites for the 2008 TEAM OF DESTINY, Roman?

Roman responds: Good shot, but if you remember, my dear Noles, you'll recall that when I called the Cubs a team of destiny on June 25, I merely said they would make the playoffs even though they were way out of it at the time. And guess what, they made it! Early prediction for next season? White Sox.

He hasn't been a Seantor for a long time. He's a lawyer.

I was very glad to see the report,it showed what I suspected all alone that One Man could not take the fall for all of Baseball.
and the people who run Baseball could care less.

You think Steroids are bad,wait until you see its mother ....
Stem Cell.

Science has played a part in sports for years.I know I am not writing nothing new here.

So the report is out naming names,question is what are they going to do about it?

How can Couch incriminate Glenallen Hill based on one homer? If you take a look at the names on the Mitchell Report, most of those guys were utter stiffs (FP Santangelo?), and Hill was hardly the second coming of Ernie Banks or Billy Williams. At the end of the day, the good players are good, the not good ones not good. Even if a player is using whatever, how can you quantify the effect? Oh, if he weren't getting a shot in the butt every month, he'd be batting .280 instead of .290? Please. The person who could figure that out would have also been able to locate WMD in Tikrit.
Having said that, Clemens had better be subjected to the same level of vitriol as Bonds. But since he was the media's fair-skinned hero, I'm not expecting it.

My thoughts are...someone must've taken that 400page download and hid in a closet all weekend and read it??

Baseball should have left it alone, but I BET you the farm their decision to launch this investigation has something to do with Barry Bonds. Its going to backfire in their faces too. This is the tip of the iceberg because some of these players are going to turn Canseco and start singing. Investigation was a huge waste of time and money. All of it is based on opinions and not FACTS. Checks are circumstantial. Only thing to believe is the actual tests for substance abuse. Shame on them and everyone that is buying into it. Astericks and Pages saying this was a "drug era", and downright ommisions. Terrible if none of it is backed up with FACTS!

Now you see someone like Glenallen hill hit a ball that far - and don't test him - then shut up. Barry starts to hit balls out at a record pace - test him and if he passes - case closed - and SHUT UP!!! But whatever you do - dont start punishing guys off of anything but concrete evidence. This is all foolishness and has the feel of McCarthyism.

Several random thoughts:
- Can people PLEASE refrain from using the phrase "never failed a drug test". It is now equivalent to speeding before they had radar guns.
- I love the espn aplogists supporting Pettite. "Oh, well since he only did it twice"...pullleeasse. This was the same holy roller who denied using them completely last year when the rumblings first came out. Clemens' lawyer was also priceless. the only good news is that I would bet there are now 25%+ voters who will not put that a$$-clown in the HoF.
- What exactly cost $20M to get this report out? The Feds got these guys talking, not baseball.

Keith
As long as the courts allow people to get convicted of murder based on a preponderous of circumstantial evidence, convicting these cheaters in the court of public opinion based on this circumstantial (and direct interviews) is not exactly a stretch.

What...were these checks to cover their McDonalds habit?

Never under-estimated the stupidity of professional athletes!

Jerry Springer paid for a stripper with a Check...WHILE HE WAS MAYOR!!!!!!!

DOOOPS

Keith would argue that those checks made out to the hookers were for dry cleaning...purely circumstantial.

Jason you make a GREAT point. I cannot argue with that one. If that is the case then its a sad day in America. A man's life's work - gone without concrete evidence or even a challenge to his accusser. And reports are saying that clemens is the only one with enough money to defend himself. Sad, sad, sad.

What a bunch of racist hypocrite jizzholes spewing idiotic drivel that has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand!! This coming from the very SAME people who wanted Barry Bonds thrown UNDER the damn jail now it's time to tunr a blind eye and deaf ear WTF?!! How typical of a hypocrite especially a racist one and who are YOUR 'role models' mr. holier than?!! Paris and Lindsay gotsome bloHan or maybe the fine,upstanding folks in Congress who can worry about everyone else's filthy back yard but neglect their own. Let's see baseball do a 'Mitchell Report' on ALL their cheating,lying,deceit, and corruption THAT would probably be 1,000 pages!!

" fine,upstanding folks in Congress "
(Lavern and Shirley)

like that guy who had 200K in his Freezer???

I agree with you Lavern Morris. However, this could be seen as a diversion to dilute Mr. Bonds actions. Afterall, this many names being released has become overwhelming for the general public. To the point where they don't care(as you can tell by many responses).Give it a few years and Barry Bonds will be in the hall of fame, after all Kobe will forever be enshrined-and he raped someone. Ray Lewis Killed someone...he will be in the hall of fame. They never took O.J. out of the hall of fame. Unfairness has no prejudices. Only from ignorance does prejudice spew.

When was Sosa's name mentioned in the report, again?

Roman responds: It was mentioned in the context that Mitchell sent him a letter of inquiry, and he didn't reply. Maybe Sammy can't read English, either.

Lavern...what's your point? Bonds is dirty, just like Clemens, etc. Bonds lied to a grand jury so thay is why he's facing time. Maybe I'm not sure who the racists are here

Ok...I think its safe to assume, that EVERYONE sees the media as their nemisis.

If the EVIL MEDIA is SO ANTI-BLACK....

explain this story...

Where is the Reporting on Al Sharpton's FBI Probe

By Ken Shepherd | December 18, 2007 - 11:46 ET

Imagine for a moment that the FBI raided televangelist Pat Robertson's office for any reason whatsoever, much less say his 1988 presidential campaign. It'd be a story in the broadcast evening news programs, right?

So why the utter lack of interest in the December 12 federal probe into Al Sharpton's 2004 campaign? A review of Nexis for ABC, NBC, and CBS network news stories for December 12-18 yielded nothing on a December 13 FBI raid.

Here's an excerpt from the AP's reporting from December 13:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316660,00.html

I, also, thought the Cubs would make the playoffs in late June....but it was for dumb, baseball-related reasons....like having better players than the Brewers and junk. But I like the TEAM OF DESTINY explanation better.

Let me try!

In 2008, I feel like the Toronto Blue Jays are the TEAM OF DESTINY! Frank Thomas is going to remind us all why he should be a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer. Vernon Wells is going to TRIUMPH over adversity and overcome his failures. McGowan and Marcum are gonna be two kids pitching for the love of the game. They've got gritty veteran Roy Halladay showing the kids how it's done. They're playing not only for the World Series championship, but Canadian pride as well (RIP Montreal Expos ::sniff::). Oh. And let's not forget the most destiny-related factor of destiny this team has to offer in its destinious run to the World Series of Destiny. I mean baseball.

David Eckstein. Through the power of heart, he made Curtis Granderson slip and fall chasing down his double in the gap in the 2006 World Series. And he'll do it again to a center fielder near you!

And let's not forget that "Blue Jay swagger".

Does....this clarify any of my viewpoints towards the idea of a "Team of Destiny", Roman?

=)

hey..where is my post? What did I do wrong?

Roman responds: I'm getting to it now. Been swamped lately.