Mitchell report: Clemens first name mentioned

No surprise here, and for the same reasons. I reckon 80% of every teams' good players were on some sort of enhancement using the eyeball test. With the MLB X-tra Innings package (the greatest thing since slice bread) I had the opportunity to witness this mess in all of its glory. Not sure what to think about this whole issue, though.
E

I opened the paper...saw his name...and I felt like an idiot....maybe it was the retiring and coming back that deflected the attention off of him for me...or how Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling were steady pitching at the same ages....

guess I'll find out this afternoon if they did too...

I really don't think any of these guys' records, accomplishments, etc. should be recognized, published, acknowledged, etc...screw the asterisk...erase it

and a life-time ban from Cooperstown for these same guys ought to fix the integrity issue...

Pete Rose..even though I can't stand him personally..was the best to strap on cleats...he didn't cheat...he's banned

You're absolutely right Roman. Clemens was a good old boy, and that is probably why he wasn't as targeted as Bonds.

If MLB and the media is to prove that they aren't racially biased, then they have no choice but to discredit and question Clemens stats and success to the same degree as with Bonds.

I have a feeling that MLB is as just as much to blame by turning a blind eye as the players. No way did they did not know that their million dollar toys weren't up to something shadey.

not surprised at all...

just think of his roid rage incident w/mike piazza in the 2000 WS, when he picked up a piece of a shattered bat, and threw it towards piazza as he ran to first...

his response to piazza was : "i thought it was the ball!"

huh??!!??

I guess it's not a big surprise. Although, it makes me wonder whether Nolan Ryan was using something towards the end of his career. He threw hard into his early 40s and then suffered a heart attack a few years after leaving the game. I always thought it odd that Ryan, who had a legendary workout to stay in shape during the baseball season, would have a heart attack at such a young age (I believe he was still in his 40s). Perhaps he has a family history. Perhaps he was taking something that built up tissue around the heart muscle. Hmmmm... if my memory is correct, isn't an inflammed heart one of the side effects of prolonged steroid use?

I guess folks can say what they want about how the media treated Bonds -- whether deserved or not (mostly deserved) -- but by naming Clemens first, MLB is clearly trying to make this more than a Bonds witch hunt.

We knew the report was going to be "juicy", but still a dark day for baseball.

I don't think this one is much of a shock at all. While it's true that there are a few freakishly blessed people in the world who seem eternally young, in this day and age of sports it seems the cynical point of view is likely the correct one. While Chicagoans witnessed first hand a player like Greg Maddux seemingly lose a few mph off his fastball every year, Clemens maintained his high velocity. In fact it could be argued that, like Bonds, Clemens actually seemed to get better in his later years. That just isn't the natural arc of an athlete's career. When you combine that with the significant change in appearance, this report just confirms what already should have been obvious.

I'm not suprised either.

If anyone fit both the eyeball and performance test, it was Clemens.

This is the same guy who suddenly resurrected his career in the mid-1990s at the same time the juice was being passed around in locker rooms.

Yet no one thought to put two + two together.

Why? They didn't want to do so.

This has always been about power hitters, and it has always been about Barry Bonds.

Yet you, I, and others alway knew that if people really wanted to probe, they would find people they didn't want to find, and frankly, I still don't think they will ever know who all used.

Can any of us be sure Cal Ripken didn't use? What about Tony Gwynn? What about Randy Johnson or Curt Schilling? What about Julio Franco or Kenny Lofton?

Steriods is just as much about recovery and endurance as power, which makes it just as likely a drug for the contact hitter or older player as the power hitter.

Someone said that trying to single out a player during todays Steroid Era...is like trying to single out a player for Pot Smoking in the 60's

Your right Roman I dont know why anyone should be surprised by Roger Clemens being on the report. The main reason I think Clemens got a free pass from the media was RACE. Bonds was an out spoken black guy who no one in the media liked so he was an easy target. Everyone in the media including players were afaid to mention the name of Clemens. I want players like Curt Shilling to come out and say something about Clemens since he had so much to say about Bonds but I know he wont because he is a coward and he doesnt want to say nothing about his friend he knew was cheating. I want all of these fans who threw needles on the field and made signs do the same to Clemens and the other players on the report. Most of the main stream media didnt say nothing and all had suspicions but that didnt stop them from making Bonds into a villain even before the book "Games of Shadows". Will all of the talk radio guys say something now? NO!!! They will attempt to spin this and make up excuses for Clemens and most of the players they like because this is what most of the bias media guys do. If you kiss there behind they wont write bad about you they will just consider you a great guy. Anyway mark my words watch how they spin this and make this out to be not such a bad thing.

If the IOC can strip Marion Jones of all of her medals for admitted steriod and banned substance abuse then major league baseball should remove all records and awards from anyone who was caught using banned substances. It does a dishonor to all those greats who came before to have their achievments eclipsed by steriod using underachievers.

Barry Bonds home run record is a scham and a black eye that will never go away if left to stand

They steroids is "cheating" and I agree. They said the "Black Sox" cheated but the courts couldn't prove it and STILL got banned from baseball. If the Black Sox can get banned for something that COULDN'T be proven, then these clowns should be banned for something that HAS BEEN PROVEN. Baseball can't ban one group but not another. Baseball needs to play on an equal playing field also.

bculz1 - this is a sports blog. Don't bring politics here please.

I only hope, as a baseball fan, that Cal Ripken is not on that list. It would shame the game since...well...since the Black Sox.

I await the official list.

RPK...you didnt tell KK (thats stands of Knicks Keith)that when he brought up blah blah blah...

GO CUBS!!!!!!!!!!

(ok..shhhhhh..they are reading the statement right now)

did i get yanked?

RPK...you dont think there is a political elemant in the FEDS and a Sitting SENATOR....reading the findings of their steroid investgations on every channel on TV right now?

duh....u......h

http://www.wnbc.com/download/2007/1213/14847408.pdf

Check it out first roman, but here is the link to the actual report. ALL 409 pages. Have at it.

Mitchell's Steroid List Leaked, Disputed By MLB Official - Sports ...NEW YORK -- WNBC.com has obtained the names expected to be on George Mitchell's list of baseball players linked to performance-enhancing drugs in baseball.
www.wnbc.com/sports/14845845/detail.html - 2 hours ago - Similar pages

so...in essence...the towel boy turned pusher ratted them all out.

I am sure there are many more than the 60 to 80 on this list. I am sure there are many others who never got caught. Remember one thing though, this has nothing to do with Bonds being indicted. Bonds was indicted for lying to a grand jury. Baseball and this commission had nothing to do with calling Bonds and Giambi to testify. Giambi told the truth and confessed his steroid use, while Bonds chose to lie. That's why Giambi is free and clear of any of this trouble. They were both given the same, equal treatment and Giambi took advantage of it, but Bonds didn't.

Nobody cares - Feds got Bonds. Investigation over. How much jail time should Bonds get? mmmm. Good stuff.

For the record, I always thought Clemens was a DB too!!

Didnt he throw a bat at someone's head?

Keith - your posts are maddening sometimes. Millions of people care about this. Maybe you don't, but clearly you don't always represent the majority. The Feds got Bonds because he lied to a federal grand jury. That's criminal, but I know how you feel about crimes that aren't committed against other people or animals. Don't worry though, he won't go to jail.

Ribbet'

I'll hold any extra opinion until I hear the outrage that Bonds has gotten shifted to Clemens. My guess, it won't happen but Bonds will still be the focal point of everyone's anger and venom. We can continue to portray the technicality of the indictment that the government is keeping out there. It is only Bonds character, plain and simple, that is forcing the indictment. Everyone stated many times that the only reason Bonds is being singled out is because of his status in baseball history. Clemens has that same status. So my question is, NOW WHAT?

Mitchells press conference was sooo boring...and filled with no new info, that I actually have turned on the Democratic Debate....

I'm for the pot smoking hooper!!

Did Clemens lie to grand jury too??

I don't think Clemens was ever questioned by a grand jury.

BC, whatcha doin' at 4:20?

Steroid use was obvious to everyone but Selig and the other MLB owners. The season-long home run derby between McGwire and Sosa has often been cited as saving baseball's a** after the 1994 strike. Hey, chicks dig the long ball, right? After that season, the long ball became one of the focal points of ESPN's Baseball Tonight broadcasts. If you wanted to get on the show, you had to "go yard." Bonds understood the dynamics and started pounding homers. Of course, he started injesting something, too. I think McGwire, he of the children's foundation in his name, realized that he was living a lie and decided to retire much earlier than was necessary. It was the right decision.

Bonds, if guilty, should have his records erased. McGwire, too. But they shouldn't have to pay back any of the money they earned during their careers. They were "using" most of their careers and only a blind man -- or a MLB baseball owner and baseball commissioner -- could not see it. Of course, that won't necessarily stop MLB owners from chasing Bonds and others for the money, but it should.

Frank Thomas should be commended and held in esteem for his cooperation and his natural ability to be a HOF player without the assistance of steroids. The guy is a class act.

This is just what I thought most people would say... dismiss what the report said about Clemens and re-focus on Bonds and say he lied to a grand jury so just send him to jail with the rest of the low-life black guys.(Vick,Pacman Jones, etc,etc,etc) In my opinion this guy is just as guilty because he has lied about using steroids but not to a jury but dont worry its coming. Thats the problem with baseball and the media that turned its back on all of this drug use. This is why the NFL and mixed martial arts are much better than baseball in this country. Its because of the arrogance of baseball and its bias fans. Anyway who cares what you think keep, throwing Bonds and other African American athletes under the bus...I'm use to hearing it. Anyway without them what would you have???

I'm with Tony, please don't bring race into this, bculz1. The color of Bary Bonds' skin has nothing to do with his situation. I agree that Roger Clemens should be held to the same standard as everyone else. If he is guilty, strip him of the right to be in Cooperstown and get rid of the bum. This whole situation is disappointing for all baseball fans. We are the ones that lose in this equation. In my opinion, the reason for Bary Bonds' problems was plain and simple, he is a self-absorbed jerk and an unbelievably nasty person. Ego is one thing but Bary took things to a new level. I'll bet if he was a guy with a personality like Tony Gwynn, Cal Ripken or Ozzy Smith there wouldn't be such a massive effort to bring him down but he thought he was bigger than the game and above all the other players. He isn't a kind person and he didn't respect the game or the fans. That is why everyone went after him with such conviction.

The whole steroid situation makes me sick to my stomach. What has happened to America's favorite pastime?

Would everyone stop with "at least Clemens didnt lie to a grand jury". Clemens was ignored by the media therfore nobody thought to investigate Clemens. If the media and all the fans would have stopped kissing Clemens behind they would have known and he would have testified with the rest of the stars. This guy is worst than Bonds because he really is a fraud...kissing the headstone of Babe Ruth every time he pitched at Yankee stadium getting all of those special contracts. THIS GUY IS A LOWLIFE.

McGwire Exonerated!!!

He was all but exonerated by the Mitchell report - his name only brought up as it related to andro, and a blurb about Canseco's accusations. Not one shred of evidence about who supplied him w/ steroids (wouldn't that guy have written a book by now?) or people witnessing him doing steroids (except for that baby Canseco) 2008 should be the year he goes to the HOF, and the sports writers should apologize to him for leaving him out this year.

Working!

Of course George Mitchell's press conference was boring. What do you expect from a former pinko liberal U.S. Senator.

Roman responds: I think "pinko" and "liberal" are mutually exclusive.

All of these guys, including Bonds, are great players. We should respect that, an accept that people are always trying to get a advantage. It's human nature. With that being said, all of them should be treated equally. All major league players should be questioned (including clemons), an if found to have lied should be prosecuted. Also, kick out their records. If they don't want to do that, they should leave Bonds alone, an drop the charges. The steroid issue, should be a non-issue. Who cares.

Enough about Clemens already. The real disgrace here is Neifi Perez. I knew he was juicin'!

Never a big Clemens fan not surprise he was on list.Apparently arrogance must be enhance too judging from Clemens & others on list. Bonds has taken allot of heat now its time to throw the heat on other's.( so called good old boy's club).

Don't you all get it?
It's obvious.
The media and fan refused to pay attention to Clemens just because he's a white American.
Don't act like you never suspected him.
He bulked up just like Bonds did.
And also there were a report in some newspaper that Clemens was juiced up.
But then again, no other media made a big deal out of it.
Well, it is and should have been a big deal.

He stole 7 CY awards!!!
Hypocrates!!!

I dont understand WHY a Senator is wasteing 2 yrs plus investigating baseball?I mean aren't we paying them to manage our states and make sure things are fair and free!NOT investingating baseball!have the DEA inv that not our senate.The senate should be inv. gas prices Pres Bush and pharmacutical companies and immagration.

If you read stories around the country, Sport Reporters continue to try to frame the report as if Barry Bonds is the culprit that began this mess and now other names are being sucked in. The report does nothing more than give us the same overexposed information we had about Bonds. Yet, every story begins and ends with Bonds. Let's not forget that this report is based primarily on the interviews of a handful of people and Internet transactions. There are probably hundreds of players that used a go between or trainers outside of baseball. Why not face it, these enhancers were a way of life in this sport and probably other sports as well.

Bonds and Clemens are both cheating lowlifes. Bonds has been villified because he broke the most recognized record in sports. He cheated the sport and the fans but most importantly, he cheated one of the classiest men alive, Henry Aaron. He cheated to rob Henry Aaron of his record. I don't know how anyone defends him for that.

Unfortunately, Clemens has retired, because I would love for him to show his face in Wrigley one more time. But he will go hide now and not face the music.

Well at least both these men's reputations are ruined forever.

We all KNOW the color in AmeriKa never has any bearing on the outcome of things. That said, who really gives a damn? This seems 2 be a media driven situation. I don't care if all of the players are roided up. For all i know they are. What difference does it really make?

Every reporter should start apologizing to Sammy Sosa

Roman responds: Why?

Walker, Dan Mcneil "crushed" Roger Clemens on his radio show yesterday, as did Dan Bernstein and Terry Boers. Mariotti did the same in his column today. So you are wrong once again but you are blinded by such hatred that I know this won't matter. Let the hatred go.

MG- when you have kids, it changes your perspective on everything. If you can't see what difference it makes if professional athletes are engaging in illegal drug use, then I'll tell you. The difference is, kids look up to sports figures. If they are all "roided up" and there are no repercussions, they will take that to mean that it is okay to do them. It's not. I think that the subject of steroid use was not really cast in a negative light until yesterday. It was always a very nonchalant attitude with essentially a slap on the wrist for offenders. This sends a very powerful message to young people, whether you think so or not. You may not care if the players are all juiced, but you should care about the influence sports personalities have on kids, even if you don't have any.

What troubles me as a fan are all of the mid to lower tier players who were using steroids. If these are just the guys we know about, this speaks to me of a much larger problem than Bonds and
Clemens. (I have always suspected that Clemens started mid season to finish his 'roid cycling.) Baseball needs a real commissioner (Bob Costas, anyone?) and clean up the game.

Speaking of eyeball tests they should check Jose Valverde's eyes. They look VERY suspicious.

Enough with the race talk. There is plenty of people of various backgrounds to make the Mitchell report a "rainbow coalition." Of course Bonds is the focus of much of the commentary. Reporters don't like his "holier than thou" attitude -- and revenge is a dessert best served cold and in print. Get over it. Hank Aaron got hate mail trying to break Babe Ruth's career home run record. But so did Roger Maris when he broke Ruth's single season HR record. Unfortunately it's part of the game and our culture. Doesn't make it right, but it exists. You can focus on it and let it "color" your comments or you can decide to move the discussion to a higher level. I hope we all opt for the latter.

Im with Dre!

So if it's not race then what is it?

Clemens by all accounts is just as big of a jerk as Bonds is. He is just as high profile, probably has made more money during his career and was paraded around like he was the bastion of all that was good with baseball. A American Hero! Before we had any hardcore evidence EVERYONE in the media was saying Bonds was juicing. It seemed as if the rumors floating around Clemens were quietly put to bed or suppressed. Is there a reason why this was done? Yes, as it's documented fact that arrogant and condescending behavior will be overlooked more often from a white person than a person of color under the same circumstances. Paging Charlie Weiss!!!!!! That's why Clemens was viewed as a "great player with an attitude problem"...and Bonds was viewed as a "jerk with an attitude problem who is a great player"...and yes.....the order does make a difference.

Part of it is like Roman said concerning the media. Part of it was being supported by the good ole boy network, which is slang for "white people entrenched in areas of power supported him"..........the other part is a subconcious part of America(all of us, black, white, mexican) etc to rush to judgement when minorities are concerned, and RESERVE judgement when their white counterparts are in the same position. We are all guilty of unconscious racism, I just don't understand why people absolutely refuse to admit it.

Even the media had to check themselves over the recent treatment of the Redskins player who was killed in his own home. They treated him like he was out thugging that night and basically said it was his fault before they even KNEW what the hell had happened. Of course though it's not about race, it's about his background. Yeap, that's all it was.........just keeping telling yourselves that.

Michael Walker sez: "The main reason I think Clemens got a free pass from the media was RACE. Bonds was an outspoken black guy who no one in the media liked so he was an easy target."

BS

Bonds wasn't a target because of his skin color. The media's disdain for Barry stems from the fact that he's a 'tool' of the highest order. Arrogant jerks like Bonds tend to get an inordinate amount of negative press. Likewise, McGwire was never a media favorite, and this was mostly the result of his own surly disposition. Dave Kingman was similarly afflicted.

Jerks come in a wide variety of shapes and colors; Bond's just happens to be black.

Don't you Bonds fans get it? Bonds had much more to gain by what he did than even Clemens! what hallowed record did Clemens set as compared to Bonds? and as for the "he's a White American so the didn't go after him" comment. See Pete Rose, look up Joe Jackson history. a man who wasn't even convicted in Court, think that would stand up today? Stop dragging race into everything and open your eyes! if a White player would have passed Aaran and Ruth I would be against him too for making the HOF. Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, McGuire or anyone one else who "Juiced" should be held out of the HOF.

Of course I'm not surprised by Clemens being named. And those who say that race is a factor are certainly right. It's *a* factor, but certainly not the only one. I think that Bonds got so much heat because he's an egotistic a**hole, but also because he has the home run records -- the Holy Grail of baseball. Clemens with his 7 Cy Youngs is of course a big deal, and he's going to have plenty slung his way, but pitchers don't play *every day* and don't win MVPs.

In any case, baseball let all this happen. The Mitchell Report was small potatoes, and we're never going to know everybody that juiced any more than we ever really know how many people our GF slept with. And for that matter, do we want to know? The entire era is tainted -- that's not news. Baseball, like all the other sports, should have had a stiffer drug policy. It didn't, they made a lot of money, and we know the rest.

The question is what now? Yes, they could strip the records, then what? Most fans hate the lack of historical continuity (even if they hate Bonds, Clemens or whomever). And baseball itself hadn't outlawed this stuff until recently. The only recent record I think that's clean is Ichiro breaking Sissler's hits record. I'm fairly confident that Ichiro with his 165 lbs is not juiced up. And I doubt Tony Gwynn ever took performance enhancers. I think the only thing he took were too many trips to the buffet -- anybody else remember when the Bleacher Bums called him "Snack Bar?"

What the HELL does the difference of records have to do with ANYTHING?!! Talk about making excuses you lying,snotty little hypocrites are JUST AS BAD as the lying,snotty and very,very,VERY racist hypocrites in the media and to say it's not about race is a bunch of complete and utter marlarky. This happens EVERY time the race changes, the attitude does too and none of you fake phony a-holes are 'class acts' yourselves so come off it. As for the 'kids' we teach them wrong message every day from the glorifying of slutty,sleazy pop tarts with their countless re-hab visits and arrests to even sleazier politicians. I don't hear anybody's little snide comments about them OR Mark McLiar bottom line is you'd have thought Barry Bonds KILLED someone the way the media was acting yet they and you WON'T do that now. Just like when wrestler Chris Benoit slaughtered his whole family the media said he had 'headaches' so noone mad a PEEP which exactly what's happening here so spare the 'it's not about race'. Newsflash IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT RACE!! Especially when you take into account how everyone is holier than about this but doesn't seem to mind that for 70 some odd years baseball was racist institution[like the media]that wouldn't 'class act' Hank Aaron or anyone of color play to top it of your precious Babe Ruth was an alcoholic,womanizer and bigot himself and Ty Cobb was in the Klan. But NOW all of a sudden you people want to have standards?!! Nice try and keep in mind YOU were the ones sending the 'class act' those death threats.

I'm with Lavern, WOW!!! Bring the heat!!!

Lavern...there is just one thing that kinda blows your whole argument out of the water....what about Isiah?

Plz....

Stop that "Pete Rose is white but vilified....so Bonds is not a victim of racism...the media went after him cuz he is a jerk" crap!!

If you want to argue that Bonds was attacked by media because of his attitude problem, not because of his color, you have to come up with some logic.

Pete Rose case can not serve for your false corollary, since there was no blacks in the same situation to compare.
Had there been any black athlete of Pete's status illegally gambled on his own game and lied over-and-over, he could have been treated even more justice and buried deeper....or quite the contrary.
But there was not.
We just don't know.
So Pete Rose case does not support your argument at all.

However, in the case of Bonds and Clemens, they were almost identical, in the sense that they were both jerks who happens to be a great baseball player and became even more so through late career surge coupled with beefed-up figures.
Don't tell me that Clemens is a father figure.
He always has been the jerk of the jerks.
Threat Henry AAron to throw a bean ball, and actually did so to Piazza to concussion and throw, yet again, a piece of shattered bat to him.
So there is nothing left except color.

Just try not to lie to yourself.
It is just racism, nothing else, covered as if a legitimate indignation toward a jerk, cheater, and liar.

Roman responds: That's a pretty good argument. I don't think there is ANY doubt that race played a role in why Clemens wasn't speculate about as loudly as Bonds. Both were unnaturally dominant in their 40s. I guess the only difference is Bonds was associated with BALCO.

It's *impossible* to ignore how race has played into all this. I think most of us would agree on that. But if we want to compare apples to apples, we should do that. Bonds and Clemens are not the same not because they're not a**sholes and jerks and poor role models and cheats, but because pitchers and position players are not the same. As a few other people pointed out, remember the "Chicks dig the longball" commercials? If somebody can convince me that the average fan is more excited by ERA than home runs, please, go for it.

Truth to be told, for many years I was an unapologetic Bonds supporter. His feats on the field simply amazed me, so I've been extremely disappointed to see how things have turned out. On the other end, I've never liked Clemens and frankly have thought he's overrated as pitcher, especially in the clutch.

If we want to compare the treatment of Bonds, Sosa and McGwire by the fans and media, I think that's more than fair. No doubt Bonds got the worst of it from everybody. McGwire was a jerk, but he retired when the heat got to be too much. I don't think that was accidental. Sosa was a prima donna, but was generally liked by many fans. Fans may suspect Sosa juiced, but there isn't so much bile directed at him like Bonds. That has something to do with Sosa being fan-friendly, don't you think? And I'm pretty sure Sosa hasn't turned into a white ballplayer.

Also, can we acknowledge the fact that there have been several years of investigations, books, stories, and interviews of Bonds that have informed -- right or wrong -- public opinion? Has the media and racism played a part in that? Yes, of course! But the Mitchell Report isn't even a week old -- how do we compress years of disdain for Roger into a week?

Public opinion is going to be what it is, but I still say neither Bonds nor anybody else is going to see jail time or anything like that. It'll be "Shame shame." Nothing more.

Walker, Schilling came out and said Clemens should return all his Cy Young awards. He did what you said he would never do. Let the hate go.

I'm just amazed, amazed. Wake up people this is not Alice in Wonderland.

1. Were headed for a depression
2. Socialism is on the way for the US
3. The devaluation of the dollar to nearly nothing is coming
4. Many many people will cheat, lie, and steal to get ahead, although they won't look at it like that AND any baseball player who had the opportunity took steriods. MOVE ON

If you want to actually do something that could potentially help..GO vote for RON PAUL

Say it aint So Pete.....Incavillia?

Well WHAT about him?!! He got heat too for your info maybe not as much as Mr. Bonds who as the media as many posters here have proven it's not only racial but PERSONAL and keep in mind you all are NOT perfect little angels either. And gee you think maybe the hypocritical way he's being treated is why Mr. Bonds is such a 'jerk'[just like hypocrites are jerks]cheaitng is cheating so don't give me the excuses especially when they are lame ones. Right is right and if you're not going to attack everyone with the SAME vitrolic hatred and venom then you shouldn't be attacking anyone.

Now this is a blog post I have to agree with. Your views are quite good. I'll be sure to subscribe :-)