The White Sox' defense just improved as they acquired Gold Glove shortstop Orlando Cabrera from the Los Angeles Angels for Jon Garland. And general manager Ken Williams said another big move is imminent, meaning Torii Hunter may be on his way.
Look for Cabrera to be the starter, moving Juan Uribe to second base.
And look for Gavin Floyd to move into the rotation.
You like the deal?
The fact that Garland was considered our top bargaining chip says it all: Every GM knows how good he is. Naysayers will point to last year. I would say he had an overall decent year when considering no bullpen and limited run support. This is another case of Williams making a trade for the sake of a headline. Don't be surprised if Garlands talent mixed with teh change in managers leads to 20 win seasons.
It depends, but at first glance, no I don't. I've been clamoring for the past two years to get rid of Uribe (disclaimer...I'll still always love Uribe for his great plays in the 9th of the WS!!!), so in a sense I'm thrilled that we have a good offensive and great defensive SS to replace him. But losing Garland is really going to hurt, and after Vasquez and Buehrle, we have 3 enormous ? for starting pitchers. And that's probably not the best way to build a winner. With all our youthful starting pitching and Contreras in the fold, I really doubt the Sox will pick any one up to replace Garland. It looks to be a huge gamble and I'm a bit surprised that we couldn't get more for him. Also, the Sox better be able to resign Cabrera, or I'll even more question this decision.
Now, a really important factor to the trade, which I haven't heard details on yet, is how much money the Sox have been given. If it's in the $3million range then you could argue that a pretty decent relief pitcher is being thrown in for a year too, and that would make the deal more sensible to me.
As for Uribe, I'd prefer trading him as I don't think he'd be a great 2B or utility man. Even if for salary relief to use his $ for a good relief pitcher.
It looks like a great move but what about center fielder free agents, Tori Hunter or Aaron Rowen? It sounds to me like another smoke screen so White Sox can avoid spending the necessary $$'s to get a decent Center Fielder. Until they have a decent one, they won't be contenders.
I would have preferred they used the money they gave to Dye to resign Garland.
I don't understand entirely why Williams has always been so eager to trade Garland. He always talks about getting young pitching that will develop into a 200+ inning guy who can get you around 15+ wins, when he had that already in Garland. I don't like this move at all. In my mind, having a great starting rotation is much more important than having a great shortstop, and our rotation just became questionable.
Bad trade. You don't give up a proven, 20-something year old pitcher with his best years ahead of him for a 33 year old shortstop.
Terrible trade...Why would you trade him for a 33 yr old shortstop??? C'MON KENNY!!! Garland is 5 YEARS younger and will win the Cy Young soon. We need PITCHING!!! He better have something up his sleeve because we just got robbed...ONE OF THE WORST TRADES EVER!!!
Appears as though Ken Williams has snapped out of his slump. By acquiring Cabrera he has obtained perhaps the best shortstop in the american league. It saves at least 3 million in salary plus the cash received in the deal. More cash relief to sign a centerfielder. It pushes Juan Uribe to second making perhaps one of the best defensive infields in the league if Crede is retained.
Another truly horrible deal from terrible, grossly overrated Kenny Williams. Garland, a solid starter, will make Williams regret this blunder. The Sox have enough senior citizens on their roster and now have just added another. We are light years away from 2005, fans.
Well, are they going to move Uribe to Center? Crede is next to go and I hope it is for a young 5 tool outfielder. And then it is off to get relief pitchers.
For what it's worth - as an Angels fan and someone who's watched 100's of Angles games with Cabrera in them - the Sox have landed one of the top - if not the top - Shortstops in the league. He plays everyday, is highly productive, and is a team leader in the clubhouse. The sad fact is that Anaheim has some very good prospects (Eric Aybar, Brandon Wood, Howie Kendrick) that need playing time, and with Cabrera in his last contract year, he was going to either cost us or walk next year. He'll be sorely missed!
Not thrilled...decent starting pitching is hard to find and Garland is a proven commodity (not counting this past season because the entire team was at fault). Garland's best years are probably still ahead of him at 28 (Cabrera is 33). Enough said!
As with all deals right now, it's hard to judge until other moves have taken place. Initially though, Cabrera's a great, needed player, but will the current rotation be good enough to win a tough division? And if so, you've just given the Angels one of the best rotations in baseball, how would you expect to beat them if you do make the playoffs? If Kenny signs Hunter or Rowand, the Sox might have the best defense up the middle in the league. Cabrera is in a free agent year in '08 as well, maybe a prospect thrown into the deal would've been more balanced ... good SP is HARD to come by, and there are now 3 ?'s in the Sox rotation. We'll see...
I believe in the philosophy of you can never have enough pitching and Garland was lights out at the end of last season. But, Cabrera is exactly what the Sox lineup needs. He's great at sacrificing, gets on base, makes contact and plays great defense. This is a smart move. I hope they can sign him to an extension and put him in the two hole for the next four years. Now, we need to sign Hunter and decide on our leadoff hitter. A good start to the offseason in my opinion.
Let me say this, Garland is a good to decent pitcher. If you can get a .300 hitter, slick fielding, everyday gamer in Cabrera, wow. Better SS than what the North Siders have. Williams will be making another big splash when he announces the return of Aaron Rowand.
Having the top 3,4, & 5 in your batting order of:
Rowand, Cabrera, Konerko, Thome, & Dye, looks pretty darned good.
Hey Roman, my bad. I'm the new kid on the block. Now down to business. Why didn't the Sox try to get LA to sign and then trade him cause we just signed Garland to a new contract and get someone with no security. If Cabrera leaves next year then we have NOTHING for Garland. I see the Sox didn't think highly of Garland because they surely didn't recieve equal value for him. Also, why are they holding on to Vasquez? He has done nothing since he's been here. And the next major move i see the Sox pulling is signing the other Cabrera who's defense is questionable, but he is a friend of Guillen as is Vasquez.
Roman responds: Defense is questionable? He's a two-time Gold Glover, including last season.
Classic whining for people who don't like this trade. People tend to like the backup QB and the guy you just traded.
If this allows us to upgrade CF with Hunter, then we just went from unbelievably weak up the middle to one of the top 3 in the AL.
Garland is a #3 pitcher on most staffs. He gives you lots of innings but shoring up SS was critical. Having said that, one of the supposed pitching prospects needs to step up (Gavin Floyd, Gio Gonzalez, etc) to be a solid #5.
Well done Kenny
I don't really believe after '05 that Garland's heart was in what he was doing on the south side. He seemed to have mental lapses on the mound at times that were critical to building momentum from a team standpoint. This is not to say the team as a whole wasn't at fault, with Kenny William's being at the forefront, but I do like this trade. The flexibility in the payroll will hopefully gain us either Hunter or Rowand and trading Uribe(he's not a second baseman) and a couple of pitching prospects could bring a leadoff hitter like Carl Crawford. Meanwhile, all the power pitching that the Sox have traded for and drafted the past 3 years has to be able to show up in order for it all to come together, but you don't find SS's like this growing on trees. Nice start Kenny! Now finish it up by getting us an outfield and somebody that can get the ball to Jenks.
Awesome trade! Jon Garland is a .500 pitcher with a 4.50 ERA. The Sox have four or five guys who can replace him -- for a lot less than $12 million a year. Garland also is a guy who looks like he's falling asleep on the mound. He was never Ozzie Guillen's top of guy. Remember the incident when Garland refused to throw at a guy? The Sox couldn't wait to dump him.
Orlando Cabrera is an All-Star Gold GOlve shortstop. Those guys just don't come around very often. He'll be the best Sox shortstop since Aparicio. The man can hit, he can field, he's a clutch player and he can hit second in the lineup. He's perfect for the Sox. Kenny Williams couldn't pass up this deal. He had to end the Juan Uribe era at short. Uribe can now split time with Danny Richar at second in a decent righty-lefty platoon.
This is the best deal Williams has ever made for the Sox. Now, if they sign Torii Hunter and deal Joe Crede for a leadoff hitter, the team will be set to make a legitimate run in 2008.
If we end up with Torii Hunter it will be a good trade.
Uribe can play 2nd, no problem there. The young pitchers
can fill in the rotation just fine. The big key in my mind
is to get Joe Crede signed. He is the best 3rd baseman
in the AL and is also one of the best clutch hitters as well.
I'd much rather have Crede batting in the bottom of the 9th
than say, A-Rod. Come on Kenny. Get 'er done.
Jerry Park
Fremont NE
I trust Kenny. I hope he replaces Garland with a starter though. I thought we needed another starter and he got rid of one. But Kenny goes for the gusto and he is my kinda GM. Go WHITESOX!!! Please rise above all this mediocrisy thats in Chicago and lead the WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Garland was not going to sign with the sox at the end of this year anyway? This gives the youngsters a chance to show what they got. We all know that if it does not work, we have an agressive GM in Kenny, that will pull off a trade in the middle of the season.
Also one of our biggest problems last year was our OBP, which OC will help out. All we need is for thome, konerko and dye to drive him in.
GOOD TRADE Kenny!!!!!!!!!
Go SOX!!!!!!!
Terrible Trade, terrible offseason. Why does Kenny continue to get older. Rowand, Cabrera, Konerko, Thome, & Dye, looks pretty darned good? No it looks pretty darned old, slow, and ineffective. Too bad there isn't a 24 year old superstar in Florida, who loves Ozzie, we could have traded for instead.
Good idea, but could have done better. What was the rush? Unless the Sox needed to bump their offer to hunter before texas signed him, there was no reason to make this trade this early. Kenny blinked.
However, if this is the deal that allows them to get Hunter, all will be forgiven. Hunter and Cabrera are HUGE upgrades up the middle. That alone will improve the Sox pitching. And maybe its enough to extend crede too.
Think of this lineup, power, speed, and good defensively:
LF Owens (.270 hitter, 60 sb's)
SS Cabrera (.270 hitter, 20 sb's, gold glove shortstop)
DH Thome (.275 hitter, 100 bb's, 40 hr's, 120 rbi's)
CF Hunter (.275 hitter, 25 sb's, 30 hr's, 100+ rbi's, gold glove)
1B Konerko (.280, 35 hrs', 100 rbis, great defensively)
RB Dye (.280 35, 100, 10 sb's)
3b Crede (.280 30 hrs, 80 rbis, gold glove caliber)
C AJ
2b Richar (.280, 15 hrs, 15 sb's)
terrible trade. 28 year old inning eating pitcher for a 33 year old shortstop that can not lead off. williams is like a kid, he has to make a trade. i hope the "cash" was 5 or 6 million.
man I do not get it?
Orlando Cabrera is an equal return for Garland in terms of value and getting the cash considerations will go a long way in getting Hunter, relief pitching, or resigning Crede who should not be traded unless they get a Rowand type deal. All things considered this move makes the White Sox a better team as long as the young starting pitchers step up. Possible downfall is Cabreras age he better still have something left in the tank after a solid year last season.
About time. I've been saying Garland needs to go for years now (even before 05). Now if Williams can turn Uribe into something useful (new bullpen new bullpen) and manage to snag Hunter, look out.
Also, a lot of people need to stop underestimating Danks. The kid can pitch. His offense failed him too much last year.
It's a definite improvement at SS ( > Uribe any day of the week).The hitting really slumped last season so they desperately needed some added punch. I also like the fact that Cabrera only struck out 64 times in 638 at bats. In the long run I question the move as I believe the Sox will miss Garlands solid, if not spectacular dependability. He's has never had any arm trouble. He probably won't ever win a Cy Young, but he's sure get you 200 + innings and 15 wins for many years to come.
I'm not sure where people are getting the idea of Garland being a potential Cy Young candidate (or even much better than average for that matter). He'll never strike out more than 115 guys or so, he'll never pitch more innings than hits he'll allow, and he doesn't have a pitch that he could consider outstanding (average FB, above average sinker, that's it). It seems to me that the only advantage he has over Gavin Floyd or Lance Broadway is that he's been average for a lot longer. Give Floyd or Broadway those 200+ innings and you'll get the exact same thing. They're all just average. So losing Garland means nothing.
05 is over. It is time to rebuild for next year. We have not had a short stop here since Ozzie. Now go get Rowand. Put some dedicated players back on the field.
This is a good trade for both clubs. First off, Garland did not want to be playing for the Chicago White Sox. He wanted a change of scenery, so with this trade, it benefits both teams. The Angels get a very good reliable starter, who will give them the wins they need, and we get the best shortstop in the American League.
Lets be honest, keeping Garland here did in fact hurt the White Sox. If a player does not want to play for you, It does not matter how good he is, he is not going to put forth his best effort mentally. We all know that it takes a strong mind to be a great pitcher in this league and now Garland will be a cy Young Winner for the Angels. He never was going to be a cy young pitcher for the White Sox, because honestly his feelings of the ballclub and being in Chicago would not allow him to be the player he is capable of. Let him go and have a great career with someone else.
Now we can focus on signing Tori Hunter and making the Chicago White Sox a World Series Champion for the Second Time in 3 years. We have a great SS stop now as well in Cabrera, who will bring a great attitude and commitment to the White Sox. He already has won one World Series with the Red Sox in 2004.
You say the defense just improved with this trade. By how much? Uribe was a damn good shortstop IMO, but a terrible hitter. This is a trade for better offense. Though I completely agree Garland has zero fire in his belly, he's going into his prime and will probably win 60 - 80 games in the next five years, when he'll reach Cabrera's current age. Will Gavin Floyd do that? I don't like the trade standing alone. I hope and expect that there's more coming. As presently constituted, this is one of the oldest, slowest teams I can recall. Sad to say, it'll go nowhere next year unless some radical moves are ahead.
We'll always have 2005.
Good trade.
Garland was going to command $60 MM over 4 years next winter and the Sox wouldn't be able to afford him. This way you get rid of Uribe for a guy that never strikes out, steals bases, has a great glove, knows how to sacrifice, and is very durable.
I wouldn't have minded a throw in pitcher as opposed to the cash. Have faith in Kenny. Last time I checked, he won us a WS....
"Having the top 3,4, & 5 in your batting order of:
Rowand, Cabrera, Konerko, Thome, & Dye, looks pretty darned good."
Yeah, and having a rotation of Buehrle, Vazquez, CONTRERAS, DANKS and FLOYD/GONZALEZ/BROADWAY does not look pretty darned good. In fact, it looks pretty darned awful. Unless Kenny pulls a starter out of his a$$ through a deal with another team that doesn't view him as a total sucker, the season is lost with that rotation. We sure can't keep up with Cleveland or Detroit with this crew as it now stands, and having Tori Hunter or Rowan won't make a darn difference unless either of them can pitch every five days.
Jerry Park; Joe Crede is better than Mike Lowell( who is a Free Agent) at Third Base? Bring in Hunter ( just to eliminate the Twins) and this Team may be able to contend.
Unless Uribe or Cabrera is a part of a trade that Williams plans on pulling off in the near future, this trade is nothing but perplexing to me. Cabrera and Uribe are both a definite plus on the defensive side of things, but why would a team want to remove either player from shortstop?
Next to catcher, shortstop is the toughest defensive position. Moving Uribe to 2B takes away a huge part of his value, so the Sox would lose internally on this trade. Also, Cabrera doesn't have a lot of pop in his bat. He had a .301 batting average last year, true, but when you factor in the facts that he doesn't exactly walk a ton and doesn't have much power, you get an EqA of .260, meaning Cabrera is an exactly league average hitter (and has been pretty close to average his entire career). Of course, there's nothing wrong with that, especially from the SS position, and especially given his proven defensive abilities, but at the same time, lets not overrate him by saying things like "ZOMG!!! .300 hitter! He's AWESOME!" (for the record, his career batting average is .273. The .301 average in 2007 looks more than a little lucky, so he's no savior to the Sox' OBP problem)
Kenny Williams said another big move is on the way. I can only imagine that this will be a trade involving one of Uribe/Cabrera. If not, Kenny has officially proven his lack of understanding of what holes he needs to fill on the White Sox. Ummmm, hi Kenny! Jerry Owens is the CF, Danny Richar is the 2B, and we're trading quality starting pitching in a market in which Carlos Silva is the best free agent pitcher for a shortstop??? Really? We have a league average shortstop (like 16th or 17th best starting shortstop in baseball) already, and trading for a good, but not great upgrade makes little sense.
As for Gavin Floyd moving into the rotation, there couldn't be anything more suicidal. He's bad now, and isn't exactly a prospect either. Give anyone a chance but him. Even Contreras. Seriously.
But seriously everybody, if there's one thing that I want to stress, it's that when you factor in Juan Uribe's glove, he's a ok player, worth about 3-4 wins above replacement. He won't kill your team like Jerry Owens does. I feel like he's taking more heat than he deserves. CF, 2B, and arguably LF are more serious problems for the White Sox than "ending the Juan Uribe regime".
At first glance you may think bad trade but its really not, you cant afford to keep Garland Paul DYE a big time center fielder. As nice as his defense was at times Uribe was a let down at the plate were talking about a golden glover still with about 3/4 more yrs of playing time good move
This is a TERRIBLE TRADE. Kenny Williams knows that PITCHING WINS GAMES. This has to do with the White Sox not wanting to pay any money. The State of Illinois pays for EVERYTHING in that Ball Park! They have NO BILLS TO PAY___THE TAXPAYERS FOOT THE BILLS!!!
I will be turning in my season tickets.
BOYCOTT THE WHITE SOX!!!!!
This improves our defense and offense at the SS position, and gives us a solid number 2 hitter, that we desperately needed. Garland is now happy, he is back in his home state where he wants to play the rest of his career.
Cabrera, 33, batted .301 with 35 doubles, eight home runs, 86 RBIs and a career-high 101 runs with the Angels last year. He had a career-high 192 hits.
He won his second Gold Glove and led AL shortstops in fielding percentage (.983). Cabrera, who has also played with Montreal and Boston during his 11-year career, is a career .273 hitter. He was on the 2004 Red Sox team that won the World Series.
TRUTH CHECK:
Regarding all the comments about Orlando Cabrera's age...
Cabrera is 15 months older than Rafael Furcal, 8 months older than A-Rod...so you're all reaching. Ages 31-34 are a baseball player's prime years - if healthy.
OC hit .301, stole 20 bases, had the ALs best fielding percentage and won the Gold Glove at SS in 2007.
Regarding Garland's contract and Cabrera's contract - they are both entering their "walk years" in 2008.
Take that for what it is worth.
I think this is a wonderful trade. We finally get a decent#2 hitter that can steal a base, hit for average, and play gold glove caliber defense. Garland has hit his peak: he cant strike anybody out, goes way too hot and cold with his control and was never the dominant pitcher we envisioned him to be. Remember Sox fans Kenny wanted to trade him for Edgar Rentaria and Cabrera is much better defensively and offensively. Look for Cabrera to hit about 280, steal 20 bases, play great defense and score 100 runs.
GREAT TRADE...GLAD Garland MR. let's give up more HRs and sit on the mound with no emotion.....going back to CALI!
we FINALLY HAVE A GOLD GLOVE AT SHORT FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE.........APARICIO? I like the trade and even more if the extra cash goes on getting Hunter, or ROWAND (HEY SOX FANS DID YOU FORGET HIM SO MUCH THAT U CAN'T EVEN REMEMBER HOW TO SPELL AARON'S NAME?!?)...THANKSGIVING 2005 WAS HORRID FOR ME CUZ THE SOX HAD JUST TRADED A BIG PART OF THE HEART AND SOUL...GET HIM BACK!
GOOD JOB KENNY...DUMPED A LOSER AND GOT A GOLD GLOVER YAY! AND EXTRA FUNDAGE FOR A GREAT CF HOPEFULLY! GO SOX.
Do I like the thought of Gavin Floyd moving into the Sox starting rotation? Hell no! I get flashbacks to the Jerry Manuel years of having every 5th start be an automatic loss. John Danks hasn't proven yet either that he can pitch effectively past Labor Day, another big "what if"!
That said, ANYBODY but Juan Uribe at SS! ANYBODY! With Uribe slated to start at SS next year, the Sox were already doomed to be a 2nd division club again.
Let's let this play out before we judge it. Garland did have shoulder problems and likely couldn't be resigned, as rumor has it he's going to seek a "Barry Zito like deal" after next season.
After all, both are #3 starters.
Well the team will definitely be more "enjoyable" to watch....but not sure how that will translate in the wins and loss category. I guess the only thing I don't understand is why we can't seem to get any young talent in here.....I don't have a problem with Cabrera at 33 but....I just think we need a better mix.
Also, these awesome young pitchers we have better turn into Verlander clones VERY Fast......
If the SOX get Hunter, will Gullien have the GUTS to bat him third? Thome is a no.4 hitter . We need SOME speed at the no. 3.
I hope Kenny doesn't trade away Crede. And Fields should be in left next year, we will need his bat.
I can't say it's a good trade or not until next September, but I know Garland loves the West Coast and Cabrera should mold well with Ozzies' personality so it looks like it bodes well for both sides.
Our main concern should be center field and of course the bullpen. Timely hitting is a matter of fortune in baseball and the starters should be fine but having a solid center fielder and a strong bullpen is a necessity not a fortuitous chance to hope happens.
The bats will be much better next year and we'll see if Kenny Williams gets off his high horse and earns his money. His arrogance should take a back seat to homework. Last year would have made me a little more humble if I were in his shoes, that's for sure.
I live about 30 minutes from Cabrera's former home park in Anaheim.Seen him play allot.He is certainly a improvement over Uribe.Don't understand why Sox would sign Uribe again & not keep him ? He is not going to bring club allot in a trade.But that is why I'm not a GM. I give Williams credit for improving defense & offense in Cabrera. If Hunter is signed like to see Sox keep Crede & deal Fields. Not impress with Fields even thou he showed power usually in non clutch situations.He doesn't stand up to Crede in field either ( not to use a pun).Bullpen needs some work along with adding possibly another starter.My finest moment is when Sox knock off Angels in 05 in playoffs! Went to local store with my white sox shirt on & bought a bottle of champagne right in the heart of Angels country!Hopefully I'll be doing same in 08??
This is a good trade the Sox get a gold glove SS solid offensively and it frees up cash to go get Tori Hunter and if the sox do that its a great trade...!!! Go Sox...!!!
Garland is not Buehrle.
he's had more bad times than good and won't be worth the payday he gets next year.
Watch him return to Jerry Manual style underachievement under Scioscia.
I'll miss Garland because I like his laid back personality but I'm glad I won't have to watch Uribe pretend like he's Vladimir Guerrero anymore. Torii Hunter on the White Sox would be awsome. Any 2nd basemen out there? I don't want to see Uribe or Richar playing 2nd base. Why not bring back the Gooch who won't cost that much. At least as a White Sox fan we can always look forward to next year. Could you imagine what it's like to be a Royals or Pirates fan? GO WHITE SOX
Devon,
Go ahead and turn in your season tickets. I can't stand fair weather fans like you who threaten to give up their season tickets because they disagree with a move. First, grow up. Second, we are only two years removed from WINNING THE WORLD SERIES!! and your crying like a Cubs fan. Please stay home and let real knowledgeable fans attend the games. Defense wins championships and help mediocre pitchers become good ones. Just look at the Diamondbacks and Rockies, two great defensive teams who won woth great d which made their pitchers a lot better. If the Rockies success doesn't prove my point, who would have thought thier pitchers could have done so well in Coors, then I don't know what will. I was a fan of Garland, but we just can't keep waiting on his potential and it was time to move on. It is up to the scouting department to find a quality starting pitcher in free agency and get some bullpen help and the starters will look much better. I like the move, getting a gold glove at the most important position on the field is more important than a third in the rotation underachiever like Garland. I was a big fan of John, but this had to be done. If they do sign Hunter, you have just put two gold glovers up the middle on defense, the most important defensive positions in baseball and again, it will lower the team era by at leasr half a run. GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good trade, improves defense, on base percentages, and gives the Sox a dymanic player. Now, get Hunter and trade Crede for a good left fielder and shore up the relief pitching.
This trade makes no sense to me. Garland is the top available pitcher we should have gotten more than Cabrera for him. Hunter is a good CF on the downside of his career. Whomever signs him (I'm hoping not the Sox) will be overpaying.
I love Hunter but he's played all of those years on turf and abusing himself every night. He's 32. Hopefully what happened to Griffy after he left Seattle will not happen. Plus didn't '05 confirm that pitching wins? I don't believe in the new guys.
This trade makes no sense to me. Garland is the top available pitcher we should have gotten more than Cabrera for him. Hunter is a good CF on the downside of his career. Whomever signs him (I'm hoping not the Sox) will be overpaying.
GREAT TRADE!!!! middle infield is as good as it gets now. Plus williams traded garland in order to free up money to sign hunter. then you trade crede for a left fielder and/or relief pitching. You can then use uribe at second or use richar there and trade uribe for some relief pitching. buerle and vasquez will win 16+ this year, and danks will become consistent this year - he looked really good at times. Big question mark is contreras and the last spot - floyd or gonzalez. One, who's to say another trade for a starting pitcher isnt in the mix, and two, I like floyd after cooper has him for a whole year. hunter, konerko, thome and dye in the same lineup, are you kidding me? then you add cabrera who hit 301 at the second spot - thats a tough lineup to pitch to. great trade - everyone will be happy - wait and see.
Glad to see some of the comments finally coming around to support the deal. We absolutely needed to do something at SS and got ourselves exactly what we needed. Given the limited options out there, Kenny needed to make this the first move he made. We'll miss Garland but this is a trade that had to be made. There is no way he was going to sign for dollars comparable to the rest of the staff and frankly he didn't deserve to be paid better than any of them. So how could we keep him? All this talk about Garland and his future success is irrelevant if the Sox get back to the playoffs and have some success.....maybe even win it all like in 05. Kenny and the Sox brass are not cheap, they're smart. Danks and whichever SP steps into the 5th spot can get it done. DET and CLE starting pitching is good. But if Buerhle and Vasquez pitch like they're capable of and Contreras is healthy, the Sox can have one of the top 5 rotations in the AL. And our pitching woes had more to do with the bullpen than the starting staff and trading Garland only improved our chances of addressing/resolving that problem. I know our rotation got a little worse today but our team got better.
I like the deal. The big concern seems to be, "who will replace Garland in the rotation?". Well, for some reason, I think Johnny Danks is gonna step up HUGE this year. I remember suffering through many of his starts at the beginning of the season where the kid pitched really well and got NO run support, nothing, and the guy can't get a win. A guy trying to become a starting pitcher needs a psychological lift in the form of a few wins under his belt, and he deserved to win some more games. Instead, he got no decisions, or losses because the team couldn't hit the damn baseball. I think this kid's gonna get 15 wins minimum in '08.
AT FIRST I HATD THE TRADE..BEING A DIEHARD SOX FAN EVERYONES CALLING ME TELLING ME ABOUT THE TRADE...
IF WE GO OUT AND GET HUNTER OR ROWAND.. NICE TRADE...
OH BY THE WAY LETS BRING BACK ARE OLD 2B MAN....
The Sox are getting $1.5 Million with this deal.
They will sign Hunter though it may appear Crede's days are numbered (See Boras)with the Sox. Let's let this thing hold over while some other deals get done. This is a good start ! I hope we can obtian a veteran for the 5th spot.
Good pitching (defense) wins. Without good pitching (defense), you lose -- case in point - the Bears. We just took 5 steps backwards. Arguably the BEST pitcher on the staff, and the most dependable over the last 3 years -- AND HE GETS RID OF HIM??? This is a sad day in Sox history...if Cabrera gives us .5 more runs a game on average, we will now lose 8 to 2.5.. There isn't a pitcher out there that can fill his shoes...look for Sox fans to turn on Kenny a quarter of the way into the season.
Devon,
You are either not a true Sox fan, or simply just not very informed. You would have a point if they traded Garland for a prospect or 2. That would be not wanting to spend money. But they just traded for the current GOLD GLOVE WINNER in AL for shortstops, and will be paying him 9 MILLION dollars. The Sox have also been in the top 5 in payroll past 2 years. You should do some research before you rant on a blog. Let all us true Sox fans know when you cancel your tickets.
I think It's a good move, garland to the Angels.
Why? No way would kenny trade him to the Cubs! That's the only reason. The Cubs drafted garland, and unfortunately let him go!
Crede to the Twinkies.. that might be worth something!
thanks!!
A cub fan!!!
It's a great trade. Garland is mediocre at best. Sure, he wins games but he doesn't inspire that stopper feeling in me. The offense became predictable and they needed a contact hitter. The defense needs strength up the middle now they have it. Now, if they get Hunter, I expect the division title.
Kenny Williams is an idiot> He went 2 years without an adaquate center fielder! Now he trades a decent starting pitcher for an over the hill shortstop. They already have a decent shortstop with power. There needs are a center fielder and a left fielder with bullpen help. They should have trader Contrares at age 37 years old.
Williams needs to be fired ASAP.
Why is there all this clamor over speed? The greatest flaw of the way the White Sox do business is that they overrate baserunning speed tremendously.
Also, I'm very sick of the Juan Uribe hate! He was one win worse in 2007 (3.7 WARP) than he was in 2005 (4.7 WARP). That's all. One. Freaking. Win. And everyone loved him in 2005. He's gone from a tad above average for a starting SS to a tad below average. We're talking about the difference between being like the 13th best SS in baseball and the 16th best SS in baseball.
Whoever said this was a great trade for both teams: did you consider that this is a stupid trade for the Angels? They have Lackey, Escobar, Santana, Saunders, and Jered Weaver. Why do the Angels, of all teams, need Garland? I guess they're gonna squeeze Santana out of the rotation, but is the upgrade to Garland really worth losing Cabrera and cash?
Mike H - Jerry Owens is out. Out out out out out. Get him OUT of that starting lineup. Jerry Owens is one of the lousiest excuses for a major league regular I have ever seen. And you want him leading off? Really? The guy with a .324 career OBP is the one you want batting in front of guys that hit HR a lot? Oh and you want him to play left field? Awesome! Let's use one of the most offensively productive positions on the field to play a hitter with a .233 EqA! That's ::gulp:: even worse than throwing Podsednik out there!
And before I hear a bunch of comments about Owens being young and capable of improving, he has so little upside it's sick, and should pray to a shrine of Tom Goodwin that he can land a job as a 5th outfielder somewhere. Watch, I'm saying this, and then I bet next year he's going to get sickeningly lucky and many more of his weak ground balls and bloopers will fall in than expected and he'll post a .300 average, and I'll have to reconvince all of you that it doesn't even matter because he's an awful defensive player who doesn't walk and can't SLG higher than his OBP.
As for straight up player value....
Garland WARP1, 2007: 5.7
Cabrera WARP1, 2007: 6.1
So we got a slightly more valuable guy with cash included. But we lose Uribe's 3.7 WARP at shortstop. If Kenny spins Uribe or Cabrera into another deal, and then uses the cash to help sign a free agent, then I consider this trade a success. But if he doesn't trade Uribe or Cabrera, then this is a failure.
We don't know yet what he'll do, so this trade cannot be evaluated yet.
Turn in your season tickets? Please give me a break. This is a great trade. The possibility of the Sox being actual players in the hot stove season is enough for me to get excited about the upcoming season. Remember how you felt in Nov. of 2004 people and quit crying about Kenny's trade no one knows how this is going to pan out.
The Sox just got better defensively and offensively with a 2-time glold glover. Jon Garland was great for us in 2005 and 2006, but that high ERA proved that without proper run support he is not an elite pitcher.
Good Deal. What did that fool on the back page want? You can't change a team with quality players without dealing some quality. If the Twins, Indians, and Tigers can bring up young pitching that performs, why can't we see if Gio Gonzales and Lance Broadway can pitch?
I disagree with most of the Garland bashing going on. This misperception that Garland doesn't care about his own success is pure Marriotti-speak. Without Garland there would have been no '05 WS. He dominated the first half of the season in a way that only GREAT pitchers can. Whether you like the deal or not stop pretending it has anything to do with Garland's 'california cool' attitude. He's actaully a pretty gutsy pitcher on teh mound. When you only throw 90mph and you win over 80 career games before you turn 29 you better believe you pitch with guts.
That being said.....
Cabrera is a great fit for the team, but it does seem like Willaims should have held out for more. As it is constitued this rotation will need lots of help from the pen and the offense. Believe it or not this team has enough on offense to make up for the young rotation. Look for bounce back years from Dye, Thome, Konerko, and Crede (i hope to god we don't end up watching Fields strike out and muff grounders all year). Also I don't think we've seen AJ's best offensive season yet either. As for the pen, in the MLB these days bullpen arms are extreemly unpredictable. We saw how quickly a pen can go bad last year, but there is a strong possibilty that the Sox pen can get good just as quick. Macdougal is the key. Say no to Rowand, they guy has somehow become known as the greatest Sox player of all time, even though he usually hit .270 for us, hit 28 HR, and couldn't lay a bunt down if it would save his life. He is no Hunter. Hunter's glove is ina different universe than Rowand's. Ask Philly fans, he still butchers a ball here and there, or takes a bad read and then makes a spectacular play, Hunter makes the spectacular play almost look routine. Throw Owens in left, trade Fields for a legitimate arm (either starter or setup man) and just platoon Thome (.190 against LHP last year). Here's your lineup:
Owens LF (.260 50 SBs, 12 HR)
Cabrera SS (.280, 30 doubles, 20 SB)
Dye RF (.300, 35, 120, and THE REAL THREE-HOLE hitter on this team)
Thome dh (but Ozuna against lefties)
Konerko (.300 40 HR)
AJ (.300)
Hunter (.280, 30, 90)
Crede
Richar
that is a bigtime American league lineup, lots of tough outs, lots of power in a himer hapy ballpark....
I like the trade because Jay Mariotti does not like it. If the the White Sox say black, he says white. Garland was an average pitcher at best the last two years. He was not leading them backed to the promised land. Getting a great shortstop is a good move. Jay just does not like the fact that Kenny won a World Championship. His bias against the White Sox is legendary and I am surprised he did not find away to rip on Ozzie in the article. Jay's outright hatred for the Sox is getting really old and lack journalistic standards. But we all know Jay is ethically challenged. You think he wrote this from Miami?
Arrogant Kenny, whose arrogance has dismantled the 2005 WS Champs, is weakening us once again. Kenny please resign, and take the GM job with the Cubs - so you can dismantle them.
Arrogant Kenny, whose arrogance has dismantled the 2005 WS Champs, is weakening us once again. Kenny please resign, and take the GM job with the Cubs - so you can dismantle them.
People...come on. You're acting like we can't possibly do without a career era of 4.4 and someone who gives up more hits than innings pitched.
Is this gonna be a great trade? Who knows...but please stop acting like we gave up Johan Santana.
It doesnt matter what Williams does for the Sox. They were bad last year and are going to be bad this year, even if he signs Hunter, there is no pitching, you cant depend on one of the starting pitchers the sox have. By trading away Garland makes it that much worse. Oh yeah, LETS GO CUBS!
The Sox just did with Garland as they did with Carlos Lee, trade him a year before he becomes a free agent. This way they don't have to go thru the bad press like they did with Magglio Ordonez. You don't give up a 28 year old pitcher like Garland for a 33 year old(?) shortstop. Garland will win 18 games again and wind up in the playoffs at the miniumum.
CAN ANYONE REMEMBER A GREAT PLAY OR A BIG HIT THAT REALLY HURT THE SOX BY CABRERA? I CAN'T.
This looks alot like a salary dump. The only problem is, it wasn't even an effective salary dump. Williams picked up a guy making close to $9 million. The Angels are giving them $1.5 million, so he is saving about $4.5 miilion.
The strange thing about this trade is it didn't address one of the White Sox weak positions. I've listened to Sox fans cover for Uribe's poor plate discipline for years, by saying he is one of the best shortstops in the AL. So you pick up a great shortstop, when according to most of you, you already had one.
But Noles is right about Cabrera. You can't look at last years numbers and say that he will repeat them. Since he is 33 years old(another problem), you look at his lifetime averages.
What you have gotten for a proven #3 starter is a guy that will give you pretty close to .273/.326/.383/.709 next year.
But the worst part is Williams probably just gave the Angels the piece they needed to make the Miguel Cabrera trade with Florida. With all the starters they now have they can put a pretty good package together and unlike Williams, not hurt their starting rotation.
You win with pitching. If you buy the Bill James handbook(which I recommend to anyone who loves baseball), you will find a category called "tough losses". Without going into detail, they are games a pitcher should have won but didn't because of factors not in his control. Garland had five last year.
So before you trash him out of town, like some of you did with Thomas, Ordonez and even Rowand, realize he should have had 15 wins and is not declining like some of you would like us to believe.
Ok everyone, all together now: Tor-ii! Tor-ii! Tor-ii! I'll be anxiously awaiting a new thread today....
I think this is a solid trade ONLY if kenny can make the rest of the pieces fit.
First, freeing up 3$mil a year plus cash should equal a solid reliever of some sort.
Second, trading Juan Uribe HAS TO HAPPEN, he would be a complete waste on the bench for 4.5$mil.
Third, It breaks my heart to say it, but Joe Crede has to be traded as well, and Kenny better make that one count. With Josh fields playing so well at the end of the year, im sure he can be as good an all around player as crede is, and crede's contract off the books means even more available for a the many, many holes we have to fill...Bullpen, Leadoff man, LF and CF
Cabrera is awesome and was part of a killer lineup in LA and you can only imagine what he will do with Thome, Dye, and Konerko following him. Just think what will happen if Hunter joins that mix. Not to mention you have AJ and Fields in the line up as well
I would like to see more starting pitching though. Maybe Lance Broadway in 5, BUT NOT GAVIN FLOYD!!!!!!
All in all, good trade by Kenny. Uribe is worthless. And he was replaced times ten
Garland was pitching batting practice this year. He got clobbered by the Twins and Red Sox in front of the home fans and couldn't get out of the 3rd inning in Seattle. I'm happy they got as much as they did for him.
This trade could've been a lot better if the White Sox picked up an extra pitcher along with Orlando Cabrera. If you look at what the Red Sox have done to win the championship this year, they kept almost every starter they had from their first World Series except for Pedro. So what do they do? they go out and get Josh Beckett. Now they need to go out and acquire another proven winner to fill the rotation for Garland. I thought Garland pitched very well despite his record, the problem is that he never got good run production from his team, and as a result to his poor record. The key to winning is to keep your rotation in tact, not dismantle it. I have nothing against the young arms that Kenny is trying to bring up to speed, but until they can prove that there ready to step up to the big leagues, I would've waited till the July trade deadline to make this move.
I wish I had a crystal ball, but I believe this deal will work. At least, the end result will be that in 2008 Uribe will not strand 300 plus runners while hitting 20 meaningless homers and walking ten times, not to mention that the team needs the clutch hitting he doen't have (please, spare all those odd statistics that suggest that Uribe is Cabrera's offensive equal).
I can see the rationale of this trade because the team's main problem last year was the lack of offensive punch at the bottom of the lineup and that mainstay players slumped all the way throughout mid summer. At the same time, the Sox better be careful about their pitching staff, especially the bullpen and the fact that Floyd Gavin and other would-be starters are question marks. Trading Contreras for Cabrera would have been better, but I don't believe that the Angels' GM is that gullible. So there, Ozzie bashers.
Again, I hate to see Garland leave, but there is no use to quickly second-guess the only baseball GM who assembled a winning Chicago baseball team in 100 years. Finally, this team needs to overhaul its farm system as the system has not produced decent pitchers recently. Until then, the only choice is to draw money from the wallet, Steinbrenner's style,to buy pitchers, if the team can or wants to do it.
I don't like giving up starting pitching, but I like defense and speed. Dude is a gamer. I will feel better if we get another starter. And even better if we get a Center Fielder.
I trust Kenny. Lettum Roll Kenny!
"Also, a lot of people need to stop underestimating Danks. The kid can pitch. His offense failed him too much last year."
No, Dank's PITCHING failed him too much last year. He had a 5.5 ERA, for ******'s sake! That's not something to blame on the offense! And our tentative no. 5 starter is also looking awful. Floyd had 21 starts over the past two years, and all he has to show for it are ERAs of 7.29 and 5.27, respectively. In 2007 he gave up 17 HRs in 70 innings pitched (i.e. 1 every 4 innings).
With Contreras on his way out, how can anyone in their right mind possibly think that Danks and Floyd in the 4 and 5 spots are going to help this team contend for even a wildcard spot??
I hope we get Hunter, because with these two guys in the rotation we'll need all the speed and glove in the outfield we can get, as they'll be hit all over the freaking park!
This was a stupid deal. Cabrerra is old. Garland is young. He had an off year,Cabrerra a carrer year. Would it be all that surprising if Garland got 16-20 wins with Anaheim and Cabrerra hit .270. He's not that good and sacrificing a starting pitcher for a 33 year old is never a good move. He should have gotten another player, or draft picks. Something else...
The Tigers, Indians, Yanks, Red Sox, Blue Jays, and Angels will all whip the Sox next year
What a shock Mariotti wrote a negative peice about the trade!
Now try to follow, the Sox were NOT going to land Garland when free agency came up! Have you paid any attention what mediocre at best pitchers have landed the last few years? Oh, I am sorry, you don't have to pay attention, you steal from everyone else!
Go back to whatever city you got run out of, you suck!
http://www.ocregister.com/sports/angels-cabrera-year-1925751-years-shortstop Cabrera: the AL's best all-around SS from 2005-2007 + $4.5 mil FOR Garland: threw 21 good starts (final 6). Or as the LA Times put's it Cabrera:highly productive hitter, & top defensive player FOR Garland:middle-of-the-rotation starter.
Adv:Sox (for now)
LAA felt that Garland was worth $13.5 mil because he's the type of pitcher that thrives in that ballpark. Their expectation is 15-18 wins. The CWS felt that Cabrera was worth it because that GG defense & superior range affords the SOX the opportunity to start Fields at 3B. That puts both Crede & Uribe on the trade block. Just as LAA feels their ballpark can add 5-7 wins to Garland the CWS feel their ballpark can boost Cabrera's power.
But the true adv of this trade is what comes next.
For LAA it's all about getting Miguel Cabrera or Tejada now. Failure to do that or shore up their offense some other way keeps the adv in the Sox favor.
For CWS Kenny has more options now because O Cabrera's 20 sb, & .345 OBP make him a legit lead-off candidate. The payroll ceiling is probably $115 mil so after signing Hunter/Rowand, adding someone like M Cabrera means Konerko's probably gone.
Whoever said this is a bad trade is obviously dumb. even though pitchin wins championships, so does defense. Cabrera obviously is a gold glover that provides that. Danny Richar is on the rise and therefore its a wrap for Uribe. Bring in Hunter and the lineup will be fearsome. remember he would be our number 5 or 6 hitter in the lineup. What i hope kenny does is take a joe crede and maybe a ryan sweeney or whatever and trade for miguel cabrera and some cash so we can sign miggy to a good deal and extend orlando cabreras deal and we'll have a fearsome squad. If we can take a little risk or someone like bartolo colon, we'll go far. Pitchin is key, but a bigger key is the bull pen. most likely floyd and danks and broadway will be in the lineup just cuz contreras suks now. so i say good job kenny and whitesox fans stop whinin. 33 years old in baseball is not that bad.
It's about time Garland is gone...he is a clubhouse cancer. Cabrera is a TEAM player who will not pout. So long John! Thanks for your help getting us the ring. Cabrera will help us get the next one. Now we need Hunter/Jones/Rowand to shore up center and maybe even another starting pitcher and another two bullpen additions.
Kenny did what Paxson and the Bulls did NOT...pull the trigger or lose. Sox were not going to give Garland Ace money - when he is not the Ace. Sox had Garland last year and look what happened. Nothing is guaranteed. I like having almost 20 wins on the team, but something had to be done and Kenny made his move instead of letting the non-move make him. I don't like all those youngsters pitching, but almost every team that made noise last year had some youngsters.
"Whoever said this is a bad trade is obviously dumb. even though pitchin wins championships, so does defense. Cabrera obviously is a gold glover that provides that."
Although he's got a gold glove, Cabrera's not that much better a fielder than Uribe to warrant getting rid of one of the 3 quality pitchers in your rotation.
"Bring in Hunter and the lineup will be fearsome."
I seem to remember having some pretty fearsome lineups in the earlier part of this century and the team couldn't do squat due to their weak rotation. As you said in your post, "pitchin wins championship . . ."
"If we can take a little risk or someone like bartolo colon, we'll go far."
Bartolo Colon was on our team once before, and as I seem to recall, HE LEFT as he didn't want to be here. What makes you think he's going to jump at the chance to come to Chicago a second time when he didn't want to be here the first time? The wonderful April weather?
"most likely floyd and danks and broadway will be in the lineup just cuz contreras suks now."
Geez, so if Contreras "suks now," how the hell can you justify getting rid of your true no. 3 pitcher??? And if Contreras is replaced by Broadway, and Broadway is unable to cut it, who are they going to bring up? Gonzalez? So we'll have three inexperienced pitchers in the starting rotation? How the hell is Cabrera's glove going to make up for that?
Your rational for justifying this trade is mindboggling. To paraphrase your opening line, "Whoever said this is a good trade is obviously dumb."
Good job Kenny this trade is good for both clubs,Garland wanted to be out thre in L.A.
We were going to lose him after this year...free agency.
Uribe is talented can play all three infield positions.
Waiting on Tori Hunter.
Go Sox!
kels, you shouldn't call other people dumb and then write a post like that. To suggest you could trade Joe Crede and Sweeney for Miguel Cabrera is ......... well...... what's the word I'm looking for.........DUMB!
Brian Hen posted Konerko will be gone, he's right when they sign Hunter now you need bp help and theres none in the free agent market worth paying so KW have 2 ways to go trade young prospects for help lets see hum can you say Chris Young of the arizona cards (former prospect)which KW is regreting right now so giving teams prospects is his book is not going to work so look at the starting lineup OWENS,CABRERA,THOME,KORNERKO,HUNTER,DYE,AJ,CREDE,RICHAR OR URIBE who will get you the most value in the trade market forget cabrera and hunter just acquired and aj no other catcher in the system worth mentioning forget about dye he just signed COME BACK TO THIS PAGE WHEN THIS HAPPENS CREDE IS GOING TO BE TRADED BEFORE THE TRADING DEADLINE IN 2008 HE'S GOING TO BEGIN THE YEAR WITH THE SOX AND HAVE A DECENT FIRST HALF AND THE KW IS GOING TO TRADE HIM IT MAKE SENSE BECAUSE JOSH FIELDS IS NO JOKE HE HAS TO PLAY so that leaves THOME which KW wont trade cause the PHILLIES is still paying his salary so that dont make sense so that leaves KORNERKO which is a 30hr a season hitter he will give you some proven players back if KW accept the right deal and who will play first base ASK KENNY WILLIAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm going to post this again, because no one heard me the first time.
JERRY OWENS IS VERY BAD. THERE IS NO WAY HE SHOULD BE LEADING OFF ON A CONTENDING TEAM. THERE IS NO WAY HE SHOULD BE LEADING OFF ON A BAD TEAM. THERE IS NO WAY HE SHOULD BE PLAYING MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. HE CAN'T FIELD, AND HE CAN'T HIT. SAYING HE SHOULD START IS EQUIVALENT TO SAYING HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL TEAMS SHOULD SUPPLANT THEIR PLAYERS WITH THE CROSS-COUNTRY TEAM BECAUSE ZOMG THEY'RE FAST AND WILL STEAL BASES!!!!
So please, stop putting him at the top of your "Mock 2008 lineups". Yeah, it's probably going to happen because Ozzie/Kenny are clueless to his actual worth. But the truth is, he's easily the worst outfielder on the White Sox roster, and there's about 4-5 better minor league outfielders in our system as well.
If this clears the way to trade Creede or Fields and Uribe for a starter better than Garland and one who is signed for at least two more years, it is a great deal. Even with a great line-up, the starting rotation with Garland wasn`t enough to compete for the division. Good start Kenny. You weren`t going to sign Garland anyways. Now go out and get a true 2nd starter and a real center fielder. I don`t even want to think about the bullpen! Anyhow, kuddos for not standing pat with a losing hand.
Another way to look at this trade is that Cabrera is now replacing Uribe, which is a better option. I hope the Sox now use Crede or Fields as trade bait to get a good pitcher in return. Better yet, get a decent pitcher and a reliever for the excess staff on the team, i.e., Uribe, Field and Owens. Now that Podsednik is gone, Owens should not be groomed as the next left fielder as his only spot is clearly a utility role. Angel Pagan comes to mind as the guy the Sox should obtain, to solidify their outfielder. With Pagan, Hunter (or Rowand) and Dye the Sox will have a top-notch outfield
Most of the 2005 players are gone. Priority should be given to the pitching rotation and bullpen. Otherwise, I am concerned that we are again heading to a rebuilding period, and we all know that "rebuilding time" may mean "wait until 2025"!!! The Cubs have been rebuilding since the days of Gabby Harnett.
only thing I don't like about the trade is the age difference, but other than that, it's all good.
IMHO, Garland is and has been VASTLY VASTLY overrated.
I still couldn't believe he had that Cinderella year several years ago. I never bought into it, before and after in my rotisserie leagues, and lo and behold he went back to being what he is
a 4.50 ERA, 12 win pitcher.
that's not "bad" in the American League, but it's not particularly good. He'll never be any better than a no 3 starter.
I believe in keeping and paying up for stud horse pitchers, but Garland isn't and will never be anything even remotely approaching Josh Beckett, or even Kelvim Escobar for that matter.
so much for the Tori Hunter fantasy though. He just signed with the Angels.
Way to be Kenny. Target Tori Hunter. Don't get him. Need to fix the bullen. Get S. Linebrink, who's was lit up in the NL Central last year. He sucked in 2006 too. If the NL Central can torch him, what are the AL hitters going to do to him?
Say goodbye to Hunter thoughts. Looks like Angels lock him up ? Now Williams must sign Rowand with Hunter out of picture. Linebrink hardly a good signing either he was getting ripped with Brewers & Padres in 07.Right now sox are a .500 ball club unless his arrogance makes the right moves.
Yeah, Hunter's on deck alright. Too bad the batting circle's in California.
But Williams can always make a move for A-Rod in 2017.
Oops...so much for Hunter
Andrew Jones in cf?...then again, there are at least 12 FA's on the roid list supposedly. Given Jones' history, I would guess he's one of the 12.
No one expected LAA to offer Hunter 90/5 or (18mil/yr). With Pods gone, for that $$ KW can sign both Linebrink(MR) & Rowand(CF) & trade for Crisp(LF).
Lineup: Crisp, Cabrera, Rowand, Thome, Konerko, Dye, Fields, AJ, Dinhar. Cost: $62.
Rowand is sure to be the next CF signed so Williams needs to act quickly. He first has to setup trades for both Crede & Uribe to free up the $ to sign Rowand. The $ saved on O Cabrera has gone to signing Linebrink. The $ saved on not signing Pods is going towards trading for Crisp.
as an Angel fan, I'll miss OC....he's one of the good ones....but as Angels found out last year, you can't have enough pitching ....for the Sox fans who don't like the trade, or vice versa, it looks to me to be a fair deal with all the comments on either side....what will make it successful for either team is how their other holes are filled....but again, I'd probably come down on the side with the doubters simply because pitching is at such a premium....from Angels side, too, they would have lost OC next year anyway with all the youngsters waiting in the wings.....go Halos.....
Way to close the deal on Hunter, Kenny. He's gotta look like a complete sucker to ever other GM in the league.
Losing Hunter was like a punch in the stomach. It looks like Aaron Rowand. Kenny needs to replace Garland in my opinion. Getting Santana would satisfy losing Hunter. I like Rowand, but not his bat which was a MAJOR problem for this club last year. Kenny needs to do something to make me feel better...
Now that it's the Cabrera + Linebrink for Garland trade let's look at Linebrink (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6455/situational) in comparison to Luis Viscaino (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6291/situational). Linebrink is a better NL pitcher than Viscaino was when the Sox got him. Both are solid for an inning (1-15 pitches) but shouldn't be counted on for much more. Linebrink figures to be better in the AL than Viscaino has been. Viscaino made $3 mil in 2007 & the NYY's are looking to re-sign him as a FA.
I can't see the Sox trading Crede. He is one most clutch hitters on the team. I like Fields but he isn't clutch and his defense does not stand up to Crede. I really hope they do not trade Crede, I understand Kenny W. does not like Fields in left field but he should do some left in spring training in 2008. If he does not do well then have Josh and Joe battle it out for third base, and then use someone in in the minor leagues because the Sox have a great Triple-A Charlotte team down there.
Ryan F. - Please never use the term "clutch hitter" again. Joe Crede is not a "clutch hitter". There is no such thing as a "clutch hitter". It's easy to prove Crede isn't, because he grounded into 500 double plays in key situations during the last 3 weeks of the 2006 season when the Sox were trying to make a push. Crede does not have some sort of horomone in his body that makes him hit better in close and late situations. Nobody does. Not even the heralded David Ortiz. There is statistical evidence that no one is clutch, and if there were clutch hitters, Crede sure wouldn't be one of them.
Crede is a MUCH better player with runner's on (.870 OPS) than bases empty (.730 OPS) but that doesn't make him a clutch player.
Konerkro's nearly as good with runner's on & much better (.840 OPS) with bases empty.
No one wants to trade Crede, but Bor-Arse makes it inevitable. 2007 was a complete loss so the safe bet is to look at his career .750 OPS in determining his price. He earned about $5 mil last yr & that's about all he's worth this yr. Bor-Arse want's to ignore 2007 & market Crede as an .850 OPS player. It's stupid for the Sox to pay Crede that value & arbit is likely to make him a rent-a-player so trading him makes the most sense.
The irony is that Crede's a fool for sticking with Bor-Arse. All he has done is hamper the process & take a large cut of Crede's pay. If Crede were to switch agents I think the Sox would give him an extra million out of good faith & if Joe has an all-star caliber year they would do all they can to offer Joe the richest Sox contract ever.
Well Williams did not get Hunter...Trade One of your star pitchers
with Richar or Osuma for a Young Slugger,you know where they are.