Anybody excited about Scott Linebrink?
Is Aaron Rowand the answer? He had a great season, but he's one wall collision from missing another chunk of the season.
Coco Crisp? Not bad.
But it's the bullpen that Williams will have to really work on, and LInebrink may help, but he's not the answer.
Land o' Goshen! What do I see? The Angel team is the club to be reckoned with next season. They will be ahead of the Sox and other teams by eons.
Kenny, Kenny, Kenny!! Wake up!! Puuulease, get Aaron Rowand and a good pitcher, not this chap who wants 19 millions. Allow me to scout for the Sox, for free, just this year. We need a good scout in the Caribbean area, pronto. I hablo español perfectamente and know raw talent. (Not me, I'm kidding. It could be anyone who knows raw talent). Send someone to the sandlot leagues in the Caribbean and around northern South America and most likely than not, in 2-3 years the ex-Champs will again be able to make the Yankees hide behind the Statue of Liberty's apron. Kenny, you better know that the three Sox sluggers are getting older and by themselves may not be able to carry the team in 2008. Heeelp!!!!
It is funny how the same haters of the Cabrera trade because the guy is 33 are upset about not spending huge cash for a CF who is about the same age and more prone to beak down due to his reckless style. The Sox aren´t ready to contend, thus signing Hunter reminds me of Ben Wallace; getting a guy who is in the twilight of his prime, but not being in a position to win with him until the guy is too old. Use Creede, Fields, Uribe, Danks, Floyd, Gio and Contreras in some sort of a package to get the other Cabrera and two experienced outfielders who can run and catch. We would then only need table setters and a few reliable bullpen guys. As for a number 2 starter(Garland wasn´t one nor is Vazquez.) God help us!! It is going to be an uphill climb as Toronto, Angles, Yanks, Red Sox, Indians and Tigers all look far superior. Bust out with some cash ReinsDork!!!!!!!!!
Kenny did right by letting Hunter roll. 90 is just too much. I am more concerned about another pitcher. Sign Santana and all of this goes away. Hitting and Pitching did us in last year. That is 2/3rds of baseball. Coco Crisp would be nice, but I would like a Center Fielder who can HIT.
Riensdorf sucks. Nothing else really needs to be said. He's a total tight wad that does not care about the city of Chicago.
I couldn't be happier about this. The 5-years, $80M was too much for Torii Hunter, who was worth exactly as much as Carlos Silva by WARP last year. Hunter doesn't walk, doesn't have a sustainably high batting average to counterbalance that, and despite what many think, is actually a middle-of-the-road defensive centerfielder. The only truly attractive part about him is that he can simultaneously play CF decently and hit for power.
The White Sox are getting way, WAY more bang for their buck out of Scott Linebrink. This is a very good signing. You're wrong, Roman, Linebrink is absolutely the answer. He's one of the few consistent middle relievers in baseball. ("Consistent middle reliever" is pretty much an oxy-moron these days.) Here's the deal. You're assuming that everyone who was bad this year is going to be bad again next year. They aren't. At least one of MacDougal and Thornton is likely to rebound, because there's no logical reason to why either one of them faltered last year except for season-to-season variance. MacDougal was bad for the first time when he was healthy in 2007....so do you really think that this means he's going to keep being bad? I think that between Linebrink, Jenks, and MacDougal/Thornton, the pen will be in good shape. Plus, Ehren Wasserman was looking good down the stretch last year.
As for Crisp...he has some, but not much power, and not a great ability to walk, but he's a beast in center. His defense was worth nearly 2.5 wins to the Red Sox last year, which is huge (aggregate 6.0 WARP1). Perhaps the most important thing about him is that he's not Jerry Owens. I'd be fine with him, though Rowand (who is superior to Torii Hunter, unlike what most think, and this is from an objective, statistical perspective, not a ZOMG 2005 WS feel-good perspective) is definitely preferred at a reasonable price.
Long story short....it's good that we didn't overpay Hunter, and Roman, your bullpen worries are foolish, because bullpens are fickle from year to year. Do you remember that the best bullpen in recent White Sox memory consisted primarily of Neal Cotts, Cliff Politte (two pitchers who are not very good), and some guy that came up from Double A in August? Bullpens are unpredictable. Period.
Not getting Hunter reminds me of the comical 2nd rate effort the Bulls made to land Tracy O'Grady. Lets send Benny the Bull to great him at the airport instead of Michael Jordan!
Riensdorf is a cheap clown who runs his teams like this is some small time city like Cincinnati or Milwaukee and Kenny Williams act has run its course. He is pretty arrogant for a guy who has made the playoffs just once under his watch.
fuff, forget about Cabrera, the Sox can't match what Anaheim and the Dodgers are offering. They are looking for the top major league ready young(cheap) guys. That eliminates Crede, Uribe and Contreres. Danks and Floyd are both projected to have era's of 5.75(not good). And Gio is an unknown. If they want to stay ahead of the Royals they should trade for Coco Crisp and use all the money they have and all the trading chips they have to improve their starting and relief pitching.
too bad the Angels splurged for Hunter, he would have been so perfect for the Sox.
Crisp could be nice though, at least you get good glove and lots of speed (without Hunter's power)
the aging sluggers (konerko, dye and thome) are a concern. Are their best years behind them? or better asked , can they still approach their better years or are they on an inexorable slide?
i'm not a scout but linnebrink based oh his stats strikes me a slug. Mediocrity defined. of course mediocrity is still an improvement for the Sox bullpen which outright blew.
vaszqez is on the brink of being a solid no.2. He's always had the stuff, he finally seemed to put things together last year, especially in the 2nd part of the year. He's a horse.
I like Buerhle, but he's not a true no. 1, more like a tweener, or great no. 2
i don't see how they can pull ahead of the Tigers, much less Det or Minny with what they have
Keith sez: "Sign Santana and all of this goes away."
You're cracking me up here, Keith.
If you think that Reinsdorf would ever fork over $150 million for a pitcher, it's definitely time to put down the Kool-Aid and enter a 12 step program.
Santana is looking for more money than Barry Zito, and deservedly so. They'll be selling Freeze Pops in Hell before Jerry ever coughs up that kind of dough for a pitcher.
Tell us you knew that, and you were just pulling our legs.
I do think the Angels overpaid for Hunter, but if you look at free-agent crops over the last several years, that's what teams do when they *really* want a guy. The Sox have never won a bidding war for a player; I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future. They think they can lowball everybody and sign them Buerhle-cheap. (Incidentally, I never understood why Buerhle signed for so little, especially now that the team is being scrapped for parts.)
And there's *no way* they will sign Santana. No chance. Period. Let's just agree that's wishful thinking which is a product of it being the holidays and/or alcohol/drugs in our system.
I'm not a Sox fans, but I'm fed up with Chicago sports teams being run as second-rate organizations. We're the third largest city in the country -- we're *not* a small market. Why the nickel and dime crap all the time? And why do we put up with it? We take it as a matter of course that "that guy wanted too much money," etc., and want to believe mediocre players will have career years. This is the one thing Cubs & Sox fans share.
Kenny apparently seems to think that good pitchers are easier to find than snow in January. I didn't really understand the Cabrera deal. And I like Cabrera as a shortstop, I just wouldn't want to give up a solid pitcher in his prime for Cabrera (unless his first name is Miguel). The AL Central is a *tough* division, and the Sox have some serious holes. Having lived out East and watched Boston for many years, I don't think Coco Crisp -- hilarious name aside -- is the answer.
Don't be fooled by dumb sports writers. The bullpen was the BIGGEST eye sore for the team in 2007. It might not have been the worst in the majors in ERA (because of Jenks) but it had to be the worst in leads given up.
Linebrink is a VAST improvement over all but Jenks in that bullpen. The most important stat for a reliever is OUTS. In 2007
Linebrink racked up 211 outs & 52 scoreless appearances in 71 gms. Thorton racked up 169 outs & 48 scoreless appearances in 68 gms. Thorton was the best of the rest amongst SOX regulars.
Wassermann is reason to hope but Ozzie used him sparingly as he racked up 69 outs & 29 scoreless appearances in 33 gms. He rarely pitched more than 1 or 2 outs.
Kenny can not stop at Linebrink. There are still BIG ? marks surrounding Logan, Bukvich, MacDougal, Sisco, & Masset.
The White Sox needed Linebrink a LOT more than he needed the White Sox. Suppan would say he sold himself short so I take my hat off for Kenny being able to sign him.
Mark - I am cracking UPPPP in TEARS!!! Good POST!
Can't a Sox fan dream too? Kenny is a go for the gusto kinda guy. Until he signs umma keep dreaming. Cubs fans were asking for Arod, so um askin for Santana! And after all that hell we went through last year on the southside, we can all use some freeze pops! Make mine a blue one!
Six words:
Chemistry, chemistry, chemistry, Rowand, Rowand, Rowand.
Besides the vastimprovement he brings to CF, offensively, his team spirit and locker room presence are even more invaluable.
It SHOULD have been a no-brainer for Williams from the beginning, but now that his glamor guy has jilted him, Rowand should be gotten immediately after Linebrink.
Then the biggest thing left to deal with will be his dumb move getting rid of Crede and installing the cheaper but incredibly less talented(defensively)Fields at 3rd base.
His arrogance asleep again. All I read about Williams is that he promises to improve club. Linebrink stunk it up with Padres & Brewers signing him for four years was a huge mistake. If Sox sign Rowand Id forget about not signing up Hunter. But Williams must put some action forward rather than just talk. Cabrera a improvement over Uribe but so is every other short stop in MLB.In other more serious news sorry to read of passing of Joe Kennedy.My feelings go out to his family & friends.
Rick - ummm...where did you get that projected ERA for Danks?
Juan - The most important stat for a reliever is not "outs". Do you realize that the pitcher with the most "outs" is the same thing as the pitcher with the most "innings pitched"? Therefore, you just said the best reliever is the one who pitches the most innings! So a bullpen horse who throws like 80-85 innings with a 1.50 WHIP is better than a guy who throws like 50 innings with a 1.10 WHIP?
WHIP is the absolute best "conventional stat" for evaluating relievers, though I much prefer WXRL.
Jerry Riensdorff is being cheap! He raised bulls ticket prices to fourth highest in baskettball, and look at the Bulls. He told Paxon no to Kobe,Garnett and Gasol and told Kenny Willams no to everyone im sure!!Hey Jerry since your makin all this money now. What about us? You know, the fans that support you? You would'nt be here without us!!!
At this point I just don't see the plan apparently....they have question marks all over the field, and basically just added another question mark by getting rid of Garland. So let's recap..
They did a contract with Uribe(who when is interested is a pretty good shortstop)....brought in Cabrera.... now they have a question mark with Uribe as in "what in the hell is he going to do with Uribe"........
Richar...unproven....Fields looks like he should get some time at DH or something cuz if they expect him to replace Crede for a World Series run next year....um no......Jerry Owens as leadoff and centerfield.....uh not sure about that.....where is Brian Anderson? Is he done? A bunch of no name unproven pitchers as the 4 and 5 starters? Jose Contreras BIG question mark......the Sox will need a miracle to come in 3rd place this year....and
miracles for 3rd place seems like an oxymoron.
Hope we get Rowand, glad Hunter and his age left. As long as Linebrink is better than what we have (outside Jenks), I am happy. Loved Crisp in Cleveland, not so in B-town. All in all, if we get Rowand and a couple of others, will be glad of the offseason.
Wayne sez: "Hey Jerry since your makin all this money now. What about us? You know, the fans that support you? You would'nt be here without us!!!"
Wayne needs a lesson in economics.
Jerry isn't where he is because of you; he's there in spite of you. As a fan, you had little or nothing to do with his prosperity.
Allow me to edjumacate you:
Even though Sox fans haven't exactly been packing The Cell beyond capicity for the better part of the last three decades, it doesn't really matter, because that run down piece of real estate he purchased back in '80 just happens to be in the Lake Forest neighborhood of the business world.
It didn't matter whether or not Jerry painted the house, mowed the lawn, hired better help, or junked those pink flamingos in the front yard; the rest of the neighborhood's value soared so high that the relative worth of his neglected and delapidated shack couldn't help but rise along with it.
He bought a gold mine when gold was selling for $39 an ounce, and now he's filthy rich.
And you had nothing whatsoever to do with it.
The Angles can have Hunter.
He's a great fielder with some pop, but he has never hit for average, never walked and doesn't drive in a lot of runs -- really a No. 5 or 6 hitter most years.
No way you pay 90 mil for that.
I like Roward, but if he wants the moon and the stars, I'd let him go too. He is a poor man's Hunter.
If the choice were between he and a cheaper Andruw Jones, I'd take Jones.
But if he is cheap, go ahead. While your at it, there is a rumor the Sox are trying to deal Mac -Doo-gal to the BoSox for Crisp. If they could get Crisp and Rowand, I think the top of their lineup and D would be set.
I like Linebrink.
Noles: So a bullpen horse who throws like 80-85 innings with a 1.50 WHIP is better than a guy who throws like 50 innings with a 1.10 WHIP?
In a word Yes.
50 ip suggests he's either inexperienced, was use primarily in matchup situations (1 maybe 2 batters per game at most), or he lost it down the stretch to where the mgr lost confidence in him.
The 80 ip suggests he remained competitive throughout the season. His manager never lost confidence in him. That's Linebrink.
Roman, what's the last major team to win a championship in Chicago? The WHITE SOX! I'm mentioning this because there is no "Inside the White Sox" Sports blog.
Do the right thing & get it going!
Roman responds: I guarantee you there will be one by spring training even if I have to kick Joe Cowley's butt
Juan.
You have just put on the most blatant display of ignorance I have seen in a long time on this blog (and that's saying something).
I thought it was trivial at least to everyone here that a guy who throws 80 bad innings is less valuable than a guy who throws 50 good innings. Clearly Juan has shown me that I have to explain everything.
Juan, you have basically just said that the worst long reliever on every team is more valuable than the closer. Because the long reliever pitches more innings. Cool. Thanks for making sense duuuuude!
Noles, from the 2008 Bill James handbook, the 2008 pitcher projections are as follows; Buehrle - 3.96, Vasquez - 3.80, Contreres - 4.27, Danks - 5.74 and Floyd - 5.87.
Noles, it's stupid to refer to the worst pitcher on a staff as a bullpen horse as you just did. Likewise it is dumb to refer to a 50IP as a proven closer. We will get no where in this debate unless I restate your argument.
Since you are making strictly a stat argument (ignorant of how managers actually use rellief pitchers) I should point out Sagarin doesn't use WHIP because he finds no value in it. Instead he uses MOB which like ERA is figured over 9 IP.
Your argument: When comparing a RP w 53-60IP vs a RP w 83-90IP, the guy with the lower MOB is ALWAYS the better RP.
My counter-argument:
Chulk, Vinnie 53IP, MOB 11.72, 44/57 scoreless aps. 9 holds
Rivera, Saul 93IP, MOB 12.77, 62/85 scoreless aps. 19 holds
Both are cheap young (28-29) RH's & Sag ranks Saul ahead of Vinnie. You might be the only fantasy-GM that would take Vinnie over Saul.
I'll say it again. It's natural for a good long reliever to have a worse MOB/WHIP than a good short reliever.
Hey Juan good post! But Noles runs the Sox threads!
Mark V. Great Post! - and US Cellular is on its way to FULL competition with Wrigley. They have built that whole area up. New Condos and new businesses are fighting for a spot! Everything brand new - great parking - right off the brand new Dan Ryan! Daley had a great plan. And Reindsdorf is going to cash in!