Rockies in, Cubs stink

Geez, Roman - lighten up. The Cubs, as I have said for my entire life - and in practically every comment I make about them, ALWAYS find a way to screw it up. I think you should be used to it by now. Why all the pent up anger? They've been out of it for a week and a half already.

Roman responds: I know, but doesn't it hit home when the ROCKIES make it? I mean, every single team leapfrogs the Cubs.

My thoughts exactly. The Marlins and their 2 dozen fans have celebrated 2 World Championships since 1993. The D'Backs won in 2001 and they started in 1998! This year the Rockies may win it all. How can any major sports franchise go 100 years without winning a title? In New York, if the Yankees don't advance to the Series each year it's considered a failed season. I recommend the following; gut this team of overpaid chokers and start building a team of young, hungry players. It worked for the D'Backs, Rockies and Indians. So it takes another 3 years or so. After 99 years does it matter anymore? Throwing big money at players doesn't guarantee success.

Not really, but I never bought into that "team of destiny" stuff regarding the Cubs this year. I kind of always felt like it was a year too soon for them. My husband says the Rockies are a Christian organization and think God is behind their success this year. But I just think they got hot at the right time. Who knows, maybe God thought the Cubs pep rally was stupid too.

Roman responds: A year too soon? LOL. Yeah, 99 years is way too soon.

I feel your pain, Roman. It is very hard to swallow.

For about 30 years, it was incompetent ownership under Wrigley. After that, it starts getting psychological. This franchise is burdened by the mantle of defeat, and it is going to take some doing to get past it.

Many of the teams making it in recently are composed of home-grown talent. The Cubs have Soto, Theriot and Fontenot, and a good core of young pitchers. We seriously need a left handed power bat and another reliable starter (not Marquis). We can be even better next year, provided Zell/the Tribune doesn't louse things up by dragging out the sale of the team.

None of which makes the present any easier to bear.

I agree with Roman. It is really simple though the Cubs never play as a team, they only play for stats. We never use the take sign and we always swing at ball four. All these "new" teams who have won are filled with guys like Theriot (anything to help the team guys) while the Cubs always have a team of Sosas, A-Rams and now Sorianos. A team of "stars." It is all about their personal stats, not winning. The Cubs haven't fielded a "team" since the Trib-lame Company took over, except maybe 1984. It is a team game and the Cubs never play as a team. And let's face it Cub fans are in love with Home Runs not winning. If they cared about winning they would never pack the park to watch a losing team year after year after year.

Great Posts Julie! Cubs need to commit to spending the cash, not just one year and done. Now add two more pitchers. Cubs should be like the Yankees.

Roman you guys have Wragley, i mean WRIGLEY! You party every day! You have your portion!

Roman responds: Keith, and the rest of you who subscribe to the theory that you can have EITHER partying fans at the park OR a World Series team, you're wrong. You can have both. Really. I've been to Yankees Stadium. They drink there (not in the bleachers, though). Same with Fenway, and I remember drinking at the Cell in '05. It's not an either/or proposition.

Are you seriously bringing religion into this? Can you really blame the Trib or even the new owners for caring about winning baseball? The seats are always filled. The Cubs can be out of it by the All Star Break and the seats will be packed. I don't know if that makes them loyal or just insane. I love to see the Cubs and or Yankees fall.

I mean, I just never expected them to even make it to the playoffs this year. You see - this is why I could never get too emotionally invested in the Cubs. It really just sets up a lifetime of disappointment.

Yes, it is disheartening when you look at the final four teams still standing. Two expansion teams and two teams who have had their own futility as far as winning the world series. Yes, the Red Sox won in 2004, but they've had quite a drought of their own (last title was in 1918). The Indians haven't won since 1948. You wonder when it will finally be our turn.

To me, there is no longer shock value as far as the Cubs making the playoffs. They've made it three times in the last ten years. No, that's not a lot of appearances, but let's not forget that the Cubs went almost 40 years without a playoff appearance (1945-1984). The new division and playoff format (4 teams make it in each league) play to the Cubs favor as the Cubs have the most resources in the division. There will be more chances. The next hurdle is to put a team together than can actually play playoff baseball. Cumpulsively swinging at pitches in the dirt (hello Soriano), swinging at pitches low and outside on a 3-1 count with the bases loaded (hello DeRosa), swinging at curveballs two feet outside (hello Ramirez), throwing your glove after giving up a homer to put your team down by one run in the second inning (hello Lilly), etc., is not going to get it done. This team can win the division next year, but it won't make it to the big dance. The team does not have enough players who are disciplined and/or fundamentally sound.

Finally, I hope Cub fans stop bringing "We Believe" signs to the park. I would rather see signs that say "Get it Done". Let's send a different message.

Depends on your definition of "sucks." To the Tribune Company, the Cubs are gold. 3 million fans/year, highest consumption of beer in MLB parks, and until recently, the fans didn't care about the product on the field. It was the atmosphere they enjoyed. Oh, btw, the Tribune could control most of the media spin on the Cubs because they owned WGN and the Tribune newspaper. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

If you are passionate about baseball, well, then the Cubs do suck. Is Lou going to change that? Hardly. The Cubs have too many pretty boys, prima donnas and nut jobs -- Soriano, Ramirez, Lee, Prior, Zambrano, Jones -- and no grinders or gamers (although DeRosa is close as is Theriot, but he's too young to lead).

I predict the quick departure from post-season play will hang over the team like... well... a hangover throughout the 2008 season. But between the players playing like they have a hangover and the fans in the stands working on getting a hangover, no one will care or notice the play on the field. Been that way for 99 years. Why should year 100 be any different?

Cub fans should look at ------ Cub Fans. They are the biggest reason the Cubs stink. Why? Simple for as long as I can remember (around '53) they keep saying "Oh, that's allright. He's so cute!" Only in the past year have I seen anything resembling outrage at these bum players. The Dodgers may have been bums but they always hustled. These guys are just crybabies. Which announcer are they blaming for this year's implosion?

Maybe if you are cursed, even buying a team doesn't work.

And the Rockies are not the team of destiny either. 21 out of 22 games is impressive indeed. But as my mother says; In regione caecorum rex est luscus. The National League sucks. Who ever wins the AL will stop the Rockies streak.

You silly, misguided fools! The Cubs will win when I say they can win, and not a moment before. I'm already looking forward to next year . . . . this never gets old!

Roman, why do people keep bringing up the rally? EVERY TEAM THAT MADE THE PLAYOFFS HAD A RALLY FOR THE DIVISION SERIES, IT WAS "MLB RALLY MONDAY"! A MLB SPONSORED EVENT! It was not specific to the Cubs, I am so tired of people leaving out facts to take cheap shots at the Cubs and Cub fans.

Cubs in 08, keep the faith!

Roman responds: I know the rally was MLB-sponsored. I wrote that. What I'm talking about are the huge celebrations in Wrigleyville, the sense of accomplishment. I don't know, I don't begrudge fans celebrating their team's success.
My problem isn't with the fans, it's with the organization. Keep the faith? Why?

It's not so much that the Cubs didn't advance as the fact that they didn't give their opponent any kind of a fight. To the Cub 'hitters' (euphemistically speaking) Doug Davis and Livan Hernandez were transformed into future Hall of Famers. How come those two mediocrities weren't so invincible when they pitched against the Rockies? What changed so fast? For the Cubs to get swept so handily and then to see the team that beat them get swept 4 straight in turn was almost as painful as any of the famous Cub collapses of the past. If Pinella's goal was to change the 'culture' of losing ingrained in the franchise, he didn't succeed. No matter the era, opponent or manager the players who wear the Cub uniform, when given the opportunity, will cause despair. It may not be a jinx as much as the weight of historical failure on their undeservedly overpaid heads.

This Team as it is now will NOT WIN! Mike Lowell went to the RED SOX as a throw in for the Beckett deal and drove in 120 RBI's. The Cubs could have gotten him but passed. Thay always get players past their prime and always over pay. They STINK as an organization as well as on the Field.

Hey Roman, the Cubs lack the pride that it takes to win. It's that lack of pride which has made the White Sox the joke of pro sports.

Anybody who was not mentally prepared for the outcome of the D'backs series is either a newbie Cubs fan or not cut out to be a Cubs fan. You have to learn to take the bad with the bad. Playoffs shmayoffs. Give me good old fashioned losing seasons where working stiffs and young families can afford to attend games. You have to separate Wrigley Field attendees from Cubs fans. Most attendees are corporate types who have tickets fall into their laps, or Gen Y locals (mostly from out of state) who have made Wrigley their "hang." Real, long time Cubs fans are priced out or at home waiting for ticket prices and availability to come back to reality. I love baseball and the Cubs are my team. World Series? Whatever will be will be. The Tribune is a joke. It failed at its core business and is being taken over by a corporate slumlord with no media experience. Is it shocking that they couldn't do any better with a baseball team?

Without looking at individual performances (or mishaps on the field), I see 2 overall general problems with the Cubs. 1) As one or two folks above already referenced, they need to be developed as team of young, skilled and hungry players like the D-Backs and the Rockies, building yes, from the bottom (farm system) up, and not free agency down. Why bring in prima-donnas on multi-year, multi-million dollar contracts on 8 figures? Maybe that's a problem in the bud right there: If someone costs and commands $ 40-, $ 50-, $ 75- or $ 100-million or more, they're already about me before they're about team, or either that, they have at least already developed a prima-donna partial sense of themselves when they first walk in the clubhouse door: "I'm here, aren't you lucky?"

#2: Maybe the White Sox were able to rise to the top because there was less pressure from the city or there fans to get it done? I mean, think about it: Did one false move here or there by either manager or player on the Sox ever bring about the outrage or conjure up a sense of disenfranchisement for the moment (each and every Cubs flub moment) when they occur? Is the constant white hot glare of impatience of Cubdom and their media rabble-rousers too much for the team, the pressure? Could that be the difference? Even though the Sox went an awful long time between Series appearances or victories, I think the less pressure they seemed to have made it easier for them to be themselves and not worry about performing or choking. Whaddya think?

But Roman, why is it now, a week and a half after the fact, the organization's fault? During the series, you said it was the lack of hitting, and I agree with that. I think the Cubs are very close to getting to the World Series. Keith is right that they are in need of pitching, but they have a great lineup and I love what Lou has done so far. They just didn't produce. In fact, I commented at the time about Zambrano's early departure in Game 1 being a bad move, but you were adamant that it was the lack of hitting.

Roman responds: Again, another team that started play in the 90's reaches the World Series before the Cubs. It drives home the point. Get it?

If you are mad or frustrated because they blew it, you are not a Cubs fan. This is the zen of the Cubs.

They may stink any given year, or they may get so close you can smell it, but, they WILL blow it. And we still love them.

If you are still mad or frustrated that they put lights in Wrigley Field, you are a Cubs fan.

Nice...classic meltdown, Roman

Personally, becoming a Yankees fan also... in or around 1974.. helped me with Cubdoom Syndrome

Cuban will spend like George... ...DaCubs spent like George for only one year so far...and look what they did...

I'll pitch a tent in Mesa, Az. tomorrow if Cuban is able to buy this team notreallyimlyingmesablows

So, I see Jesus is playing for the Rockies, now....ya know, when I lived in Colorado...South Park finally made sense to me...hmm

They're Cubs.

'Nuff said.

No, I don't see it like that. I doesn't matter to me when our NLDS opponent, or eventual NL champs began play. You make it sound like this Cubs team was assembled in 1908. The Trib. hasn't left the team for dead - should they not have signed Soriano? Should they have gotten someone other than Lou Piniella to manage? Not signed Zambrano to that big contract? They have been trying, at least to some degree, to improve the team.

Roman responds: Julie, geeeezus, I'm not talking specifically about this season or last. I'm talking in the abstract, the big picture, Quit trying to apply strict logic and analysis to it, and quit ruining my rant. Leave it alone. You're banned from this thread.

Yup, part of the reason ownership is not motivated is the fans who continue to show up and show up and show up no matter what the team does. If the people quit coming, then and only then would the Tribune have done something. Hopefully, the building across from Wrigley that has those numbers on the sign indicating the years gone by since a World Series has room for another number for next season. I mean, geez, when the NY Rangers won the Stanley Cup in 1994, it had "only" been 50 years since their last one, and I heard the sigh of relief clear over here. But I digress.

In any case, Colorado is the "team of destiny" this season, especially since Holliday clearly never touched home plate, was called "safe" anyway, and on they went. Whoever wins the Boston/Cleveland series might as well not even show up for the Series because they're going to lose.

Maybe you're right. I was part of the crowd going to Hawks games all the time, too. They knew they had us. Then that's rotten ownership. Like I said, good riddance to the Trib.
The Bears sell out, too, but, at least they get to the big dance every 20 years or so.

Can anyone name the last 2 MLB position players (that regularly start - prior to this season) that have been developed through the Cubs organziation? I will tell you. Corey Patterson and Doug Glanville. Yup - two gems over the course of about 12 years. That is a big problem that keeps this team unable to reach the top tier of teams - even after spending over $300M.

I saw how someone pointed out that the Cubs have made the playoffs 3 times in the last 10 seasons. That is true. But 2 of the 3 years (1998 and 2007) the Cubs did not even win one game in the playoffs (totally dominated by the Braves and D-Backs). What does that tell you?

Roman, you should stop killing yourself with this obsession.

Some things are meant to be. Do you ever torment yourself with why the sky is blue?

The day the Cubs win the World Series will be Judgment Day and or Armageddon, or both.

in the meantime, one should worry about what the Bears can do without a franchise RB, much less a franchise QB.

....the Cubs will never win, I swear, it's their arrogant fans...there's nothing that is more aggravating than watching a Cubs game, with their tv crew constant on the beautiful blonds in their bikinis,(oh, and drunk too) and the frat boys with their great bodies (and very drunk as well), but never really giving two sh*ts about the stinkin' team on the field. Oh, and they love showing their "hollywood" friends, like, wow, it's sooooo cool to be a cub fan, what a frickin' joke. Why don't you ever talk about how much other teams really don't feel the warm and fuzzies and can't stand the cubs or their fans! Oh, and by the way, I loved every second of the cubs post season failure! It was delicious!

Nice meltdown, Roman. I can't help but feel that my culmination of annoyance that I shamelessly expressed in your other thread regarding how much the Cubs suck helped contribute to your volcanic discontent with the Cubs and their crappy organization. Or perhaps we were just feeling the same way at the same time. I posted it there because this wasn't here at the time; but I'm glad you created it!

They should just put a giant golden $ in front of Wrigley Field and call it the Money Making Arena. What can you say though, you and I are both stupid enough to actually go to the games. So I guess that as much as the Cubs suck, it is relative to how idiotic we are as fans to make contributions to their malfeasance.

I've seen this pattern with the Cubs over the course of their last 3 managers: all of them take the team to the playoffs their first year, never make it back again, and then get fired 2-3 seasons down the road. Baylor in '98, Baker in '03, and Piniella in '07. Next year will probably be an abomination.

What's disappointing to me aside from the Cubs always sucking is that Chicago can't put together a dynasty of any kind in any of their sports. Who here doesn't long for a Bears team that looks like New England or Indianapolis? Or a Cubs/White Sox team that looks like the Red Sox or Yankees? For as great a sports town as Chicago is, we consistently have sports teams that are either one and done or nothing at all. At least we had the Bulls in the '90s or sports life in Chicago would be intolerable at this point.

I wish that Chicago sports fans could put together a coup and overthrow all of the horrible sports team owners that we have painfully endured all these years. Then if the Cubs, Bears, Sox, etc. all sucked, we could hold ourselves accountable for it instead of having to have insidious owners that only care about the bottom line while mismanaging the fans' hopes and dreams.

Hey all! I attended my first Cubs' game in 1968. I became a fan. I was a Cubs fan until about well, 1993. That's when I became a Rockies fan. That's when we got major league baseball out here in Colorado. It sure was nice to see Chris Snyder face down in the dirt for the final out of the series.

I do have a soft spot in my heart for the Cubs. It would've been great had they come out here to play in our thin air. We've been beating up on the D-Backs all season, we had a score to settle with you guys ;o)

It's my opinion that one of the Cubs' greatest liabilities is Wrigley Field. When I was a kid in the 70's, you could just go to the game. Attendance was in the mid 20,000s to about 30,000. Today, Wrigley is a tourist attraction. People come from all over the world to see a game in the park, not the Cubs. It's difficult to just go see a ball game. I know, I've tried.

So, money from the seats sold to tourists not fans. Money coming in from cable TV. The Trib doesn't need loyal fans. Of course that doesn't explain the 70+ years before cable TV

Wait 'till next year. Look forward to playing the Cubs. Root for the Rox. We're having a lot of fun. We didn't think we were entitled to it like some teams in the Eastern Time Zone.

El Forestero
Ex-Chicagoan since 1976

Problem is with the fans at this point. Can you even imagine playing in an important "must win" playoff game at Wrigley (I know its hard to even imagine that, but think back to 2003)? The fans are so desperate and brutal to their own players, a player can not even concentrate on what he is doing. They are worried that a ball or other object will be thrown out of the bleachers at them, that they will be boo'ed mercilously, or litter will be strewn across the field if they do not deliver. Oh well, atleast Latroy Hawkins is about to feel what its like to be in the World Series, another player boo'ed out of town.

I got a suggestion for the 2008 season, stress playing smart, situational baseball. Teach the millionaires in Spring Training to lay off pitches that are outside the strike zone to allow the opposing pitchers to work the counts up. Also teach Soriano and Ramirez to not try to hit a home run every at bat. Also no more 7th inning Harry Carey memorial 'Take Me Out To The Ballgame' guest singer crapola. It's run its course. It has not brought any luck to this team. There is one thing we Cub fans can be happy about though, Carlos Zambrano will be fully rested for Opening Day.

"It's that lack of pride which has made the White Sox the joke of pro sports."

That's such an idiotic statement I don't even know where to begin. What do you base that on?? "Lack of pride"? How do you even quantify or qualify that? Have you surveyed a statistically significant percentage of pro-sports fans, players, managers, GMs and sports columnists?

For being the "joke of pro sports", they've won a world championship two years ago, and had one of the top-5 major league win-loss percentages in the 1990s. I would think the Cubs would have liked to have had a championship and those numbers. Really, after 99 years of futulity, the Cubs and their fans are the true jokes of pro sports: the Cubs for sucking, and their fans for continuing to buy the product.

I'm really banned? I was rather enjoying our debate. I don't think I'm ruining your rant - I'm fueling it! But ok, fine - take your toys and go home. Or I'll go home - wait, I am home. But the other poster are gonna miss me...........

Statistically the Cubs WILL eventually win it all. When they do (stats being what they are) they will probably win about 25 World Series in a row and will then be hated more than the Yankees ever were. How sweet will that be?

Roman, first Colorado hasn't done something that the Cubs haven't done inn 100 years. They have done something the Cubs haven't done in 62 years. Someone said it's because they don't "grow" their own players. They could blow it up, come in last for five years straight and begin to see some quality young players start to come through the organization. How many people would stand for that? The Cubs problem is that they can't commit to a plan that will bring them success, because they do just enough to compete every year. They need to choose. Blow it up, say they are going to rebuild with youth which should take some of the pressure off. Or, they need to commit to a payroll like the Yankees or Red Sox, that will make them so much better than anyone else in the NL, that the pressure won't cause them to lose. The 100 years hangs around this team and will cause intense pressure until they rid themselves of it. The Tribune had a chance to build a quality organization under Dallas Green. When they fired him they headed down this path. They Cubs need the right owner, who will hire the right baseball people to bring in baseball players who can win. This is done by pitching and defense first. Followed by patient hitters with high on base percentage. With some power guys. I was more upset when the Rockies beat the Diamondbacks than when the Cubs lost to Arizona because it struck me that they blew another opportunity. But they lose because they don't have enough overwhelming talent to win. Here's an example. When the Cubs lose a game in September there are 25 articles written and usually a couple about curses and goats. When the Brewers lose a game, their are two articles written. No team has as much pressure to win. That's why I say spend $200 million, put the best team money can buy out there and win this damn thing. Then you can blow it up and the fans will be patient with you. Look at Sox fans. They were fighting for last place last year. Do you hear the fan base going crazy. No. They won theirs. They can live on that hangover for at least three or fours years.

Roman responds: I stand corrected (at this point of the postseason). It's ONLY been 62 years.

Roman, there is hope for the Cubs -- providing the following scenario happens:

1. Mark Cuban buys Cubs
2. Cubs sign A-Rod to $35M/yr contract
3. Cubs start 2008 season in slow motion, losing 15 of first 20 games
4. Cuban begins appearing in Cubs dugout during games to assist Lou with strategy
5. Lou has meltdown, starts dugout brawl with Cuban
6. Lou takes "leave of absence"
7. Cuban gets "dream job" as he takes over as manager of Cubbies
8. Cuban gets tossed from game for arguing with umpire, Cubs fans cheer wildly
9. Cuban sees that he is on to something. This egomanical buffoon realizes that as manager he gets non-stop opptys to be in the public's eye
10. Cuban launches a series of weekly arguments with umpires
11. Cub fans, too drunk from watching bad team, endlessly cheer his tirades
12. MLB steps in and fines Cuban $25K
13. In a showing of solidarity, Cubs fans kick in beer money (equivalent to one inning of one game) to pay the fine
14. "Cuban for President" signs begin appearing at Cubs games
15. Cuban slowly realizes he may be missing an even larger platform for his ego
16. Cuban launches presidential campaign -- running on the MLB ticket. Fans voting for the All-Star game have option of checking off box marked "Cuban for President."
17. Cuban wins popular election, becomes 44th President of U.S. Barack Obama is the VEEP.
18. Cuban's first act is to abolish MLB except for two teams -- Tampa Bay and Cubs.
19. In 2009, Cubs play in first World Series in 101 years.
20. Cubs lose to the WS to the D-Rays 4-0.

It COULD happen, Roman.

Really.

First of all..love the JB bann...thats like sending Martha Stewart to jail.

secondly...when thinking of the Tribunes Ghost Riding ownership of the Chicago Cubs...i think of one of my favorite movie quotes of all time.....

"Either they don't know, don't show, or don't care about what's going on in the hood" (doughboy)

Hood = Wrigley

I never did like the fact the Cubs was run by an organization instead of having one singular owner. I think its important having a fan of the team living and dieing with each loss be the owner. The Tribune, as far as they are/were concerned, was winning the World Series of revenue as they filled up their seats and had high tv ratings. Got to love those Loveable Losers! Is there any other team in professional sports as proud as the Cubs for being losers???

Roman responds: Julie, geeeezus, I'm not talking specifically about this season or last. I'm talking in the abstract, the big picture, Quit trying to apply strict logic and analysis to it, and quit ruining my rant. Leave it alone. You're banned from this thread.

I almost lost control of my bladder reading that response Roman.
Reminds me of a guy getting caught in a lie saying.... hey it's my lie I'll tell it my way ok???

BTW the Cubs 99 year failure is a simple case of mass bi-polar disorder and you never know which Cubs team is gonna take the field. Maybe instead of spending more money on "premier" players they should look into hiring a hypnotist to control which personalities go onto the field. And it seems to have infected the Bears defense now who would have thought a mental disorder was contagious?
That's my diagnosis and I'm stiking to it! LOL

Every Century for Cubbies to win one...but there are 92 years left in this century.....take a poll which year...and will anyone from the present be alive in that year......GUESS what the SOX will win another one before the goat cursed cubs...Cub fans go after every goat on EARTH and butcher every last one for your curseless Cubs to come back...that should take you 92 years ..so look forward to a W/S in 2099....GO GO SOX IS WHERE ITS AT IN 2008.

Roman,

They know, but the blueprint to success in baseball is not as sexy now as hitting homeruns and/or pitching no hitters. Good fundamental baseball, 2-1 victories, or 3-2 victories with great defense and pitching is not putting 3 million fans in Wrigley.

Soriano's homeruns, Wood's strikeouts, Zambrano's strikeouts and clowning, that puts fans in their seats. Yet none of them are clutch enough to bring the Championship home. Arizona, with their no name good talent, just walked over Chi. because they played hard, and not to look good.

The Cubs need more than 1 or 2 clutch hitters in tight ballgames with your playoff lives on the line. They need 4 or 5 hitters who can hit ALL of the time, and not just hit some of the time.

Until the "star" Cub players either develop a baseball IQ or the Manager imposes a situational hitting strategy on his team, we will bemoaning our emotional investment year after year.

When I watch other teams, I see shortening up swings, sacrifices, hitting to the opposite field, not consistently watching strike one and then swinging at ball one & two (in the dirt no less). Is our team really that stupid, unprepared and the coaching that lacking or am I magnifying deficiencies that all teams, including winning teams, have?

Everyone in my family is a cub fan, my whole neighborhood are Cubs fans, except for me. Can you imagine the hate?! I am a Sox fan letting all you fans of the northside and around the country know that the reason you don't and won't win a championship anytime soon is not because of the ballclub, but because of YOU, the fans. The Chicago Cubs have A LOT of money to buy you a championship, can hire better minor league and international scouts to build you your homegrown team with no-names who have talent to actually win it (Fontenot and Theriot are gamers for sure). But the problem is the fans. You guys don't quit loving the Cubs. Being a die-hard Sox fan, I really do respect the fact you care that much for a team through good times and more bad times. But you need to do something so erratic and shocking that it sends a message to your club's owners that you want the championship.
You do realize that they make huge amounts of money off of the fans in Chicago because win or lose you don't stop going to the ballpark, buying merchandise, and promoting the team worldwide. STOP! Sometimes you need to show some tough love. Once you tighten up the money, you'll see a difference and you might one day (I hope for your sanity) see a trophy at Wrigley. Remember one thing, for owners, MONEY TALKS. Quit spending it on them.

The teams that win in the playoffs do it with pitching. The Cubs' pitching just isn't good enough. Maybe it will get better next year, if Prior, Guzman, or others from within can join the roster and have good seasons. I agree with the comments that point out that the Cubs haven't had success relying on free agents and maybe should try developing young talent. I hope maybe the new ownership, whoever it is, will do that.

After reading all these comments, I'm almost too depressed to blog.The Cubs seem to fall flat in crucial situations. The only reason they won the division was that the Brewers fell even flatter.But yes, they were pathetic in the play-offs.They have more talent than the Diamondbacks and Rockies put together and still got swept.Cleveland or Boston will probably win it all in four.Will new ownership help? One can at least hope so.

The problem is and has been lack of leadership from the GM/baseball operations. Our farm system hasn't produced an All-Star everyday player since Mark Grace. The Yankees started their recent dynasty developing HOF players in Jeter, Posada, Rivera,and B.Williams. That's where championships come from. We need an extensive Latin American operation and a new team of scouts who look at more than just pitchers to trade away for spare parts.

To the folks who love to say Cubs fans don't care about the game that is patently false. If you have ever been to Wrigley or even watched a game on T.V. the fans are just as involved if not more so than any crowd in the League. It IS a huge party, but, the fans know the game and cheer accordingly. My only beef,and I was born a Cub fan so I have thought about this for a long time, with the fans is the backward ovations. When the Cubs are on Defense and need a big pitch the crowd erupts in ovation when our pitcher needs to concentrate, this should be similar to a free throw at home. There should be dead silence. The converse is also dumb, that when the opposing pitcher needs a big pitch we should be going berserk to force a break in his concentration. 9 times out of 10 we lose those clutch situations and I believe it is because Cubs fans are cheering when they should be quiet and vice versa.

I'll never get off the bandwagon though, and when we finally bring it home it will be 100 times sweeter.

Go Cubs

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE NEXT YEAR/////

Why the Chicago Cubs cannot GET(NOT WIN - JUST GET THERE!) to the big dance.

1. Maybe Jerry Krause was right when he told the world ORGANIZATIONS WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS, though Micheal Jordan and the Jordanaires would think differently!

2. A Fan Base which really does NOT CARE about Winning! Hard core Cubbie fans will state differently, but you guys do NOT care about winning.

3. Drinking, Partying and the AMBIANCE is what hinders the Chicago Cubs from achieving more. I have heard it said too many times over the DECADES of LOSING SEASONS "We are going for the Ambiance of Wrigley Field!" I THINK THAT IS THE MOST ASININE STATEMENT THAT CAN BE UTTERED FROM CUB FANS!

4. As a White Sox Fan, I truly do NOT believe Cub Fans want to WIN. I actually believe Cub Fans get a orgasmic thrill of being losers! Beyond that I cannot explain it.

5. To the few who made cracks about White Sox fans, we know the game, we watch the game, and BOO losing teams and/or either do not come out to the PARK for LOSING TEAMS! It has nothing to do with being the team with less pressure to win. If that was the case, the White Sox should win a World Series every three to five years (or at least play in one)

6. Go back to number five - Do Cub Fans view how they keep making excuses for the team! Roman can NOT state it more succintly. EXPANSION TEAMS HAVE WON SEVERAL WORLD SERIES SINCE THE CUBS WON THEIR LAST ONE! -- As a White Sox fan let the Chicago White Sox organization NOT go back to the World Series (or play in the ALCS) in the next two to three years, I will NOT WASTE time with them! This is not from a fair-weather fan, but someone with other life activities to enjoy, instead of having my heart torn up!

7. Do Cub Fans know how to DIVORCE themselves out of a bad relationship? Why keep going back? Even if it is the season the Cubs finally win it all, you were there for the other 25 or more losing seasons!! YOU DIDN'T MISS ANYTHING!!

8. Keep buying my inferior product - just like China has sold lately - and guess what? I WON'T CHANGE IT UNTIL YOU STOP BUYING IT KNUCKLEHEADS!!!!

9. Oh yeah, Roman did not melt-down -- he RANTED like most of us do on this blog at one time or another! (see what I mean about Cub Fans?) People saying, "Gee Roman, it is NOT that bad! *lol*"

10. To the Next Owner - you have willing CONSUMERS(Idiots) to BUY your inferior product - Go forth and make money!

Might as well throw salt on open wounds, you fans seem to enjoy it.

CHICAGO WHITE SOX IN 2008

Maybe it's time to start rooting for the goat? Or maybe the new owner, if there ever is one, can change the team name to the goats.

I think they will win then. They just need a new team identity, and what could be more fitting than the goats? Billy, Billy, Billy, Billy, Go Billy!! Go GOATS!!!

Then when a player "wears the horns" like Sori or Rami, we can just say, "He plays like a true goat."

Whitesox Fan 2008! That was THAH-BOMB! Us Sox fans are a completely different breed. I never saw it until this blog. Cub fans CAN'T stop because Wrigley is like some kind of crack-pipe for yuppies. And I trully believe that some of them have stopped going to the park, but another one simply steps in like a seat filler at the Oscars. The sad few who have made their brave stance go home to watch the game only to see that they have not made a dent in the attendance, and so they go back! They go back because they're only punishing themselves by staying home! And so I say to you legions of party-goers...enjoy! Enjoy your party and enjoy your inferior product. You have your World Series party all summer! As long as that park is filled - and the customers are happy - Management has done its job. Yall don't really need a World Series.

Hardcore White Sox fans act pretty immature in here. Get over yourselves for one second. You couldn't get to the big dance in the '90s when you could have. You had the best record in the AL in '99 and got swept by the Mariners. And, sorry, but 2005 was a pretty big anomaly. That team was not that great; no team was that year. The 2005 Sox don't rank that high on the list of great baseball teams that have won the World Series. The 2004 Yanks, BoSox, AND Cardinals were all better than that team.

The difference between them and the Cubs is they won when they needed to.... ONE time. Other than that they choke almost as often as the Cubs do and their ownership sucks just as bad. You were lucky to get that World Series cause I can gaurantee you that your owner wasn't planning on putting together a winning team. He dismantled it in the offseason and happened to get lucky. Congrats on getting rid of Ordonez btw, brilliant decision there.

And I disagree that White Sox fans don't go to games when they suck. They DO go to games, it's just that they don't actually have that many fans that are TRULY their fans. When the park fills up it's filled with fans that are impartial to the White Sox and only watch them when they're doing well.

Don't get me wrong, the Cubs are terrible and Cubs fans fuel continual losing teams. But the White Sox aren't that much better. 1 Championship appearance in 46 years and 2 championships in 90 years isn't something to run home and tell mom about.

Posted by: j-man | October 17, 2007 09:28 PM - that was as sad an effort as I have seen in a while. Its just sad. No more posts on this link for me.

BC: I'm still here. And it's "ban" with one "n." FYI - I've never been to jail, so in that respect, you are more like Martha Stewart than me.

Tim Little - thanks. I think you had a hand in lifting my ban. :)

J-man,
Get off the White Sox, and get off their fans. Your team sucks, they haven't won anything worth winning in almost 100 years, leave the White Sox and their fans alone.

Seattle had the best record the year before(and you got '99 wrong, it was 2000), and they lost too. In fact, that White Sox team reminded me of this Cubs team, no clutch hitting in the playoffs. The point is not how the White Sox are doing but, why haven't the Cubs won in 100 years. Make the world series before another expansion team does. The Cubs are the real joke of the league, 3 expansion teams in the last 10 years have world series appearances, two have won a world series, and you are talking about the white sox.

Talk about how the Trib. company is taking all of your 'dedication' for granted. Talk about how your team with it's supposedly 'superior' talent got swept by a bunch of alleged nobodies. Talk about how the great Chicago Cubs lost because the manager pulled a pitcher (that pitched 7 innings) too early. Talk about your leadoff hitter going 0-fer. Carlos Marmol, your closer of the future, giving it up.

No, you choose to talk about the white sox, 2005 world series champs. I don't care how you rate them all time, in 2005 they were the best, and they have the banner to prove it! If your team is so talented, why did they not get out of the first round this season? Hell, win a game AT LEAST!!!!

Players want to come here, because they can cash the same paychecks, and see the Cubbie fans drool all over a .500 team, no pressure to be great, no pressure to do well, just try hard, who cares if you have the talent. No, body is complaining about the players, they are saying 'the team is cursed.' Can I make 1 mil. a year, only produce sporadically, and be given a free pass when we don't win, PLEASE??? There will be 3 mil. fans there next year, and they will all complain about curses, and goats, and Bartmans, while another team wins the World series again.

"1 Championship appearance in 46 years and 2 championships in 90 years isn't something to run home and tell mom about."

Uh, if you won a championship would you brag about it, or just shrug it off and say that your team wasn't any good? I thought so.

"sorry, but 2005 was a pretty big anomaly. "

Gee, seeing as how any occurrance that is outside the norm is considered an anomaly, wouldn't a Cubs world series (heck, even a pennant) be considered an anomaly? Really, other than the Yankees, Cards, Marlins, Dodgers, Reds and Pirates, how many teams have won multiple titles over the past 30-odd years? To call the Sox championship an anomaly is disingenuous, as it would also apply to most of the teams in MLB, including your "storied" franchise.

"The difference between them and the Cubs is they won when they needed to..."

Wow, our team won when they had to. That seems to be the mark of a CHAMPION - winning when you have to. I don't seem to recall any champions losing when they had to win.

"couldn't get to the big dance in the '90s when you could have."

Uh, and the Cubs did? Oh, I'm sorry, they didn't. Same in 2003. Unfortunately, Sox fans can't blame their team's failures on a black cat, goat, Bartman, etc. Only on poor play. Keep clinging to whatever excuses you like to make in order to rationalize away the Cubs' inadequacies.

"You were lucky to get that World Series"

Yes, we sure were. As are the vast majority of teams that win one.

In closing, feel free to continue complaining about how the Sox weren't the best team in the majors in 2005 if that's what it takes to soothe your wounded pride and deep-rooted feelings of inferiority.

Im telling you, once Dunston comes around....

bculz said: Im telling you, once Dunston comes around....

Or Ben Christensen

;-)

The Cubs and White Sox both have won two world championships since 1907. I think that qualifies both organizations as poor organizations. Because the White Sox won in 2005 certainly gives Sox fans bragging rights. But don't pretend that winning a championship once every 88 years makes them a great organization. Especially since they followed it up with a third and fourth place finish. As far as baseball history goes, the White Sox and Cubs are two of the worst organizations.

seriously, is this the longest you have gone without a new topic?
BTW Cubs don't stink....look at thier 06 record. Now look at 07's record. See the difference? You know who stinks? The Whitesox. Why didn't you say 'Rockies in,Whitesox stink'. Or are you a typical Sox fan wagon jumper that only realizes the Sox exist the once in ten years they are in the playoffs?

GOOOOOO CUBBBBBSSSS

Wasn't that awesome when that drunken Cubs fan popped out to end the season!! Or what about that one that couldn't get the ball over the plate in game two, man, he was throwing balls the size of vodka filled grapefruits all day!! I could have hit him out of the park.

I love how the Sox fans blame the inebriated Cub fans on everything, including the losing way of the team. I know the Sox fans think they are on the team too, but your not, neither are the Cub fans.

"You know who stinks? The Whitesox. Why didn't you say 'Rockies in,Whitesox stink'."

Maybe the reason he didn't say the White Sox stink was because this post was originally intended to discuss the Cub's inadequacies over the past 99 years as compared to the success of recent expansion teams a la the Rockies (you know, the NL Pennant winners). In fact, the Sox aren't even discussed until roughly 16 posts in, when some idiotic comment is made about the Sox lacking pride. Yep, that Roman is some bandwagon Sox fan.

Roman responds: You do remember 2005, don't you?

As one post stated, they are a tourist attraction not a serious baseball team. The few times I went to Wrigley, it was like going to disney with my kids, that unreal feeling you get the first time. No one cares about the team or winning, its just the place to hang out, check out women, drink beer and have fun. A homerun is just icing on the cake. Don't change anything. But if you want real baseball, choose another team.

Yo CHUCK!

'05 was an anolmaly because the White Sox were an above average team that was somewhat better than their competition. Last years Tigers were probably better.

I'm not clinging to anything. The White Sox were not that great in '05. The Cubs aren't "my team" Did you see me blame the black cat, bartman, blah blah blah... in my post? You are a typical White Sox fundamentalist. I like the White Sox AND the Cubs. My argument is that the White Sox of '05 wasn't that great and THEY WEREN'T!!!! Accept it if you will, I expect that you'll deny it.

I know I hit a nerve because you can't accept the truth that the Sox really aren't that much better than the Cubs. Your ownership sucks point blank. You were lucky to win a championship - that's the truth. You choke just a little bit less than the Cubs do (DATA SPEAKS FOR ITSELF). You won when you had to??? LMAO!!!!! Whatever. Yeah, winning twice in 90 years is so profound I am at a loss for words.

Hey, like I said before you attached your frail White Sox ego to this - I am not a hardcore diehard Cubs fan. I like both teams. Your version of "reality" is just a bit skewed is all. I would like to see both teams to do well. The Cubs are just a little bit worse than the White Sox historically and the EVIDENCE (that is hardcore actual facts if you're not aware) points to that.

So best to get over it compadre.

Wanted to also mention that the comparison to the Mariners beating the White Sox given their record the year before is an illconceived cop out.

The White Sox won the world series and couldn't even make it to the playoffs the next year. The White Sox failed in the '90s plain and simple. They failed in '06 plain and simple. They have failed all but 2 years out of 90 years, plain and simple. They really aren't that much better than the Cubs historically... PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

I've avoided even reading this blog until today and there have been some great entries. But the "doughboy" anology really stuck with me. The Tribsters are making money faster than they print money and that's all that matters. Like having a crappy apartment and your landlord is living in a 20 bedroom mansion. MOVE.. Have no one else move in after you and he'll wise up and spruse up. I'm not saying that they aren't spending money on the team they're just not spending wisely. And as long as the seats are filled who can blame them? White Sox fans stayed away until they fielded a championship team. Half price Mondays and free tickets when you "biggie sized" your Wendy's meal wasn't even getting fans to the ball park on the south side. Winning and more winning got them to go. The seats are still nose-bleed seats and every other excuse that was given for fans not showing up were still there on the southside in 2005. Winning got them fans. Even the fair-weather sort.

Ok, Roman - now I'm really starting to worry. Where are you? Where's the Bears thread?

Roman responds: I've been negligent, sorry. I was off yesterday and not in front of my laptop. You want to post comments on my days off?

It's just been a while since we've heard from you, dude. Relax. You know I get antsy on game days.

WRD...are you actually giving me a compliment?

IF its a real one...ill take it.

they are hard to come by.

J-man,
This is it. All I said was the post was about 99 years, and 10 days of CUB futility, not about White Sox futility. Here are 2 numbers for you.

1) Cubs-----0 world series appearances in 60+ years.

2) Rockies, Diamondbacks, Marlins----1 each(at least) in the last 10 years.*
footnote* (and two of the above teams won the World series.)

Three expansion teams founded in the last 20 years have made the world series, and the pathetic 140+ year cubs team cannot make it in over 60 years. Read the title, Cubs stink. Doesn't say anything about the white sox, so why even bring them up. The truth is the cubs suck, they lost, the talent is overrated, and they will lose again next year, because there is no sacrifice on the team, and no team concept, and cub fans only outlet is to rail on the white sox. That was not for you, but for the mentality that these bloggers can bring another team in the argument, Roman was talking about the rockies and cubs, not anyone else.

So please cub fans, start crying about how Zambrano never should have been pulled, and how Soriano went south, or "how this batter in the seventh with man on first should have let a 3-1 slider out of...."so I can sit on my couch and laugh for the next week. Leave the 2005 champion white sox out of it.

sorry, I believe it is 99 years and 8 days since they last won the world series.

This is a Cubs topic and my apologies in advance for digressing. But I saw J-Man's multiple posts about the White Sox and just had to respond.

You can spin the recent or long term history of the White Sox organization anyway you want. Call them lucky, a fluke, unaccomplished, whatever. You're just making an argument that can't be won, especially when you include the Cubs track record in your argument in any way, which you did. It just sounds like sour grapes and jealousy (even if it really isn't). The Sox rolled in 2005 and to say they weren't that good is just plain dumb. I still hear quotes from MLB players from time to time making quick references to what a great White Sox team that was in 2005, especially coaches and players from BOS, ANA, or HOU that faced them in the playoffs. Hell, at the time I wondered if the Sox were actually as good as they looked. But now, looking back, I KNOW they were that good, probably even better than I originally thought. Teams don't get lucky in the playoffs. That's why these series are more than 1 game. There are good teams that fail to get into the playoffs, but the best team there always wins. Plain and simple.

Sean, you could not be more wrong. Usually, the best teams, after an 162 game schedule get into the playoffs. But once the playoffs start, it is usually the hottest team that wins. You just have to get on a roll for three weeks and anything can happen. You don't have to go back any farther than last year, with the 83 game winning Cardinals. With the first series being a 5 game series, alot of times the best team is knocked out. If one team is hot for three games and another is cold, the best team can get knocked out. To quote you, to say that "the best team there always wins" is "just plain dumb".

ROCKIES LOOKED AWFUL YESTERDAY.

Chuck - your quote

"You can spin the recent or long term history of the White Sox organization anyway you want. Call them lucky, a fluke, unaccomplished, whatever. You're just making an argument that can't be won, especially when you include the Cubs track record in your argument in any way, which you did. It just sounds like sour grapes and jealousy (even if it really isn't). The Sox rolled in 2005 and to say they weren't that good is just plain dumb"

Do you comprehend that I am not sour about anything? I'm saying that you're overcompensating. The White Sox are not a great franchise--your owner sucks: point blank. You got rid of Ordonez and shopped Garland??!?! The White Sox were highly reluctant to resign Burhle for God's sakes. You "rolled" in 2005? Is that why you almost blew it to Cleveland? Let me give you a reality check here: the White Sox were an above average team compared to the mediocre teams that year. They were comparable to this years Indians at best (Do you honestly fool yourself to believe that the 2005 White Sox could have beaten this years Red Sox? or 2004 Red Sox, Yankees, Cardinals?). They were honestly not that great. I know that you want to ride the White Sox ego band wagon as far as it can take you but facts speak for themselves. Te White Sox organization flat out sucks! The Cubs are just a little bit worse. That's the truth. The White Sox have choked more than the Cubs in the last two decades. So maybe you are a little more choke worthy but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you won one title in 90 years as opposed to one in a 100.

I'm just looking at it objectively. I'm sorry, but the White Sox are just a little bit better than the Cubs. Unless you can rewrite history, there's really nothing you can say that will change my mind or the FACT of that matter.

J-Man, the White Sox had probably one of the BEST Pitching staffs, ever...What are you comparing the 2005 White Sox with any team, who cares!!!!Do you really think the Bo Sox were that great this year? The sweep shows how pathetic the National League is?

WE WON, WE WEAR THE RING, WE HANG THE FLAG! You are so g-d jealous!

Enjoy the circus at Wrigley...A team of clowns!!!