Back on the Kobe watch

i Dont know about you guys, but i sure miss that feeling going into everygame that WE got the best player in the game on our team!

That sure would be nice.

I just cant help but feel like we are settling for just "really good"...when we can be GREAT.

Noc/TT/JOQ are all the same player. Except Noc can shoot a bit.

If we can do Hiny,Noc,Deng...id do it too and never look back.

Kobe has 3 rings and Scottie Pippen has 6. But without MJ how many does Scottie have? And Scottie Pippen is my FAVORITE Bull barnone. And so I ask the question how many rings does Kobe have without Shaq? Kobe is a great talent but he is just a regular season scorer. He has a nice team now that ironically resembles the Bulls - and he is ready to BAIL on them but nobody is really asking why??? There are players that you don't pass on, but he is not one of them. Chauncy Billups beat Kobe - with a team that had Shaq, Malone, Payton, Horry, and Fisher. That would be the LAST time you would see Kobe in the finals and you never will again unless he gets someone to him there. Shaq and Payton still won another championship. Fisher played like a champion in the playoffs last year. Baron Davis went further than the Lakers with less talent. And Labron went to the finals with Boobie-friggin-Gibson! Kobe and Ai have the same problem - they are just scorers. Bunch of smoke and mirrors. Ask Denver how they feel now that they have the "answer". Just like LA - fill the seats. And the Bulls would be some SUCKERS to let Kobe bring that here. LA has to be sick after choosing this guy over Shaq, especially after watching diesel hoist that trophy in Miami!! They chose and annointed this guy as the NEXT MJ, and now he wants to bail.

Scott Skiles is in heaven with this team. Its built for him, on a philosophy of hard work, discipline, with WINNING players. Bringing in this guy goes against the grain of all we have accomplished for the last 5 years. I have been against that philosophy because it is taking so long, but now that we have gotten to the top - NOW we choose to bring it all down. The timing is not right now, and Skiles would rather have 5 Jason Kidds on his team than one Kobe I promise you that. How can we pair a guy with Scott Skiles that wants to leave PHIL JACKSON???

I loved Scottie Pippen because of the kind of Star he was. He was a player that got the best out of his teammates. Bring in a star of that caliber - not some guy looking to be like Mike - but doesn't want to do it like Mike did it - the hard way. Mike didn't walk onto a team already in the playoffs. He led them there and went through CLEVELAND/NY/DETROIT. Let Kobe go through the Suns/Spurs/Mavericks if he is so great.

Keith, Pip didnt get his rings before he was 24 either. So kinda hard to compare.

ok Kobe has 3 rings, all with Shaq on the Lakers and he hasn't gotten past the first round since he ran Shaq out of town. now he thinks he can come to Chicago and win with Big Ben in the middle, how long will that last before he butts heads with Ben and eventually Skiles? regardless of Kobe's talent he's a selfish crybaby and The Bulls are poised right now to contend with the the young talent they have, why hedge your bets on an overinflated ego? how many millions did the Cubs spend just to get eliminated in the first round? the Bulls already spent 60 million on Wallace why spend more than that to poison the chemistry that has been building on the Bulls now? Kobe's never gonna have a statue infront of an arena why let him tarnish MJ's?

Culzie, they would burn down LA if they let Kobe go for that. They have to put their team in the conf. finals to make losing Kobe right. He is their mealticket, and those fans aint coming out unless there is something to see or a great team. I can't even remember the Lakers without a top 3 talent on their team. That is a town where it really has to work. They REALLY have better things to do.

Paxson was asleep at the switch for not getting KG. The Celtics stole him for basically Al Jefferson and some garbage (expiring contracts) including gun toting Telfair.
For the NBA neophytes, Jefferson is a better version of Tyrus Thomas. The fact that he could have got KG and still kept his prized possession Deng is amazing.

Roman sez: "To get Kobe, Paxson would have to give up one of his mega-salaries, which means Ben Wallace or Kirk Hinrich, and then go from there."

This is easily solved by doing a sign and trade involving Ben Gordon, who will wind up getting a fairly large contract either in Chicago or somewhere else.

I would gladly part with Gordon or Hinrich along with a few role players if it meant getting Kobe.

Roman responds: Yeah Mark, I'm sure Paxson would pull the trigger on that in a second. The Lakers, however, would not.

bculz, Pip didn't jump dirctly from high school to the NBA either which may account for his his more mature approach (with the exception of 1 1.8 sec lapse) to TEAM basketball. how many games did Kobe sit back and take less than 5 shots in the first half because some one accused him of shooting too mich instead of passing? Kobe's mind set is the rest of the team is supposed to nake me look great, unlike MJ' who had the mind set...keep up with me and I'll make you a better player than anyone thought you were. Kobe made his own bed in L A let him live with his ego in it.

if the Bulls go into the season with the following 15 man roster I believe they will have the talent and depth to beat anyone:

Hinrich
Gordon
Wallace
Deng
Thomas
Smith
Nocion
Noah
Gray
Sefalosha
Curry
Griffin
Gardener
Duhon
Homan or Khryapa

Without Deng in the Trade, the DEAL IS DEAD. Don't expect the Lakers to give away probably the best player in the game without us giving our best player. We do need a closer, and Kobe is a closer. Until then we will win a few playoff games and not reach the Championship level.

the goal is to win a championship, not just to get to the finals. if you can get the best indivdule player in the game, you get him. what do we have to lose? the only future the Bulls have presently is mediocrity. wake up. Kobe is better than any 3 Bulls players combined. if Skiles can't handle Kobe on the team then replace him with someone who can (ala D. Collins). this whole blue collar, overachiever type player mentallity will only bring many more years of frustration to our city. it is simple. to win you need a super star player. ask yourself why Kobe would want to come to the Bulls? do you think that he would like to win another ring? it is time for a least one team in our city to take a chance on a truely special talent. at the very least the games will not be boring.

I really don't get the love for the Bulls. They win 1 playoff series against a team whose superstar was hurt, and center was 30 pounds overweight and 3 years past his prime. They then lose to a Detroit team who was then outclassed by Cleveland.
...this is a team we can't possibly break up??? this is a team we can't possibly trade 2 of its "meteoric" core players for the best player in the NBA???
Orlando, Boston, Cleveland, Detroit are all as good and probably better than the Bulls right now. Washington and New Jersey are right there as well. Anybody remember the Nets beating up this up and coming Bulls team at the end of the year when the game meant far more to the Bulls?
So sit back right? Let's wait a few more years for this "treasured" core to grow up right?

NBA stupidity at its best!!!

BCulz - that those cravings you are experiencing are left behind from our MJ addiction. We all have it. Kobe is baking soda. Kobe is not the best player in the league - he's the most potent scorer. Its not the same. The best player in the league has been Tim Duncan, Shaquile Oneal, Tony Parker, Dwayne Wade and the man who has gutted your guy for two straight years - little Steve Nash. We get caught up in Monster Dunks like Vinces, and acrobatic shots like Kobe's. But REAL basketball comes down to playmaking. The great ones know when to take over and be greater down the stretch. A scorer shoots even when he is not the best option or high percentage shooter. A GREAT player is a playmaker at heart. They know HOW to make others better - or make the play themselves - when needed the most. They do absolutely everything it takes to WIN. AAAAAND THEY WIN. Not try...they WIN.

But our eyes fool us if we only pay attention to scoring. There is the mental aspect of the game. Kobe posses the ability to do it all, but his problems are between the ears. This guy is like Dirk. And I am fair about it! Dirk had no business losing to Baron Davis either.

There are a plethera of playmakers that would boost the Bulls into the finals quicker than Mr. Bryant. If we are going to mortgage our future, let if be for a RIGHT NOW player. Someone who is not another building project. Sadly at this stage in his career - after donning 3 championship rings he is STILL a project! Says everything about him! How soon would Kobe take us to the finals? 2, 3, 4, 5 years??? That is exactly what we would be looking at. Just ask LA!!! Rebuilding the whole system - for an unproven player.

Tim your list of players looks like the list of new countries after the USSR dissolved.

This team of so so's isnt going to beat the Tim Duncans and the Dwades and the Nashimals.

NO WAY.

You need a star in this league to compete. PERIOD.

Kobe a "project"??? We could use a few projects like that on the Bulls.
Keith - how many of the other guys you mentioned make all defensive last year? One...Duncan. No argurment that he has been the best all around player in the NBA since MJ.
I'm not dismissing that Kobe is a prima donna...a sociopath, etc. How well he'd do with the Bulls is a function of who's left to play with. In LA, he had Lamar "hooch" Odom and Kwame - ughh...roll me another one.
If he came here next to Gordon, Noch, Tyrus (assuming they'd package Deng, Kirk, and Noah plus a #1) and Wallace - IF the money works. With Joe Smith and Thabo off the bench.
I'd take that right now...not sure if Skiles/Pax would be into it though.

Fun to think about yes. Kobe is going nowhere though. I got that info on a flight from Seattle last night while eavesdropping on a couple of members of the L.A. press corps.

That's reliable right?

Roman responds: People have written stories with less reliable sources.

Besides being a great scorer, Kobe is either the best or one of the best (depending on Artest's head that day) perimeter shutdown defenders. He can also score in the high post aka MJ, something missing from our current roster. In response to some of the comments on here, maybe you forgot but on a bad shooting night, MJ would take a ton of shots to ensure his stat line. That is why for his career MJ shot around 40% when Scottie wasn't in there with him (Early years, Washington, and especially obvious the year Scottie was injured the first part of the year). For all the Shaq has another ring comments, he effectively replaced Kobe with Wade, who replaced Shaq on the Lakers??? no one near the talent of Wade.
Unless we have to give up the whole roster, we shouldn't blink at the opportunity.

Keith I am in total shock this morning you've come 180 degrees since last season you make me proud dude!!
bculz your USSR comment has me cacking up here but consider this for a moment.....back in 1776 a superstar known as England scoffed at 13 little colonies that banded together and refused to buckle under pressure. This Bulls team is as tenacious as those 13 colonies and a general will emerge from the ranks to lead the charge.

Roman responds: There must be something in the air with some of these posts. I love it. And it's kinda cool you can notice change in Keith or any other poster from one season to the next. It's like we're a big dysfunctional family.

Chris,
A good post. Tommy, great post-on the money, who else can you really name on the Lakers(for goodness sake he dropped 81), all he needs is a little help.

My favorite Bull will always be Cliff Levingston (he might not know me but he helped my family out a lot during an emotional time for us in the early to mid 90s.) But MJ was the best player and Kobe is probably 2 levels below MJeff, around where Ewing, Drexler, McHale, and Barkley reside.

If it is there, make the trade.

For all you Kobe lovers I simply ask you to consider LA. They are the DREAM franchise of the NBA. Stars don't ask to be traded from LA - it just doesn't happen. Jerry Buss once said Kobe was untradable. Now he is willing to part with him, but for "equal talent". What does that really mean? It means you just CANNOT please Kobe, and Mr. Buss is going to demand the very best for him. What does Chicago have that LA doesn't? You see, when Kobe gets here and figures it all out (that he is NEVER going to be MJ, and that the grass is not greener), he is going to do to Chicago, what he is currenly doing to LA (who loves him - and dissed Shaq and passed up on KG for him). He's going to bolt, and Chicago will NOT be able to get what they gave up for him. (see Minnesota for reference). LA already has some nice talent and if i'm Buss, I demand Deng, Hinrich, Thomas, Wallace and your draft picks for the next 2 years. And they are going to be great picks since Kobe aint going nowhere!

And if he thinks Nash was tough, wait til he gets a taste of Kidd and Carter, Labron, Chauncy & Tayshuan, Shaq and Wade, and the REAL defense of the NBA. And noone to guard Dwayde with Hinrich GONE! And you can bet that Gordon will see the writing on the wall and roll out! I bet Skiles is shaking in his boots!

I am still Keith-LSS, I give when the Bulls give. And they have addressed things I was concerned about, like that headband. I have seen enough in Gray/Noah to believe! But I am a Bullsfan first and foremost, and I do NOT want to see Pax make the MISTAKE Dr. Buss made. 5 years since Deisel left LA and what do they have to show for all their prospecting...FOOL'S GOLD! Looks like Mike, but produces like Dominique. While Shaq has GOLD! I am as skeptical as they come, and I have NO confidence in Kobe. We need a leader and he is NOT one.

I respect your opinion Keith but...

Bulls down by 1 with the ball. They somehow have stayed in the game despite horrible outside shooting. Would you rather have Kobe in your lineup who can create his own shot, dribble/penetrate and dish, or go to the hole and get fouled OR

Have Kirk on the outside pounding the ball waiting for Ben to free up?

Haven't we seen this picture too many times? I agree that this is not a no-risk trade but...unfortunately Pax/Skiles won't pull the trigger. At least not yet.

Tommie it won't make a difference because all he did post-shaq was miss all the important shots. Remember he only makes them when the game is NOT on the line. I will take my chances with Ben Gordon or Luol Deng if you want to know the truth. There has GOT to be someone else. Not this guy. uuahauaghh!

No need to fret though, because I think you guys are going to get what you are asking for.

Nothing is gonna happen I agree...
I guess I'm venting cuz we let the real prize slip away. the celts get KG for Al effin Jefferson and a load of dung. (ignoring money, that trade was like Tyrus, Duhon, 2 future #1s and Kryapa...seriously).
someone tell me that trade didn't actually happen...please

well all you Kobe lovers I can think of a few guys I'd rather see in a Bulls uniform and KG isn't one of them. Nash, Billups and Arenas come to mind for starters and not necessarily in that order. and as far as being down by one with the clock ticking down I do believe Robert Horry has made more big game buzzer beaters than Kobe has and Tommy if you have watched any of the Bulls preseason so far you would know the Bulls arsenal goes way beyond Ben Gordon. Deng is beginning to show good moves in the post along with Aaron Gray who also has been 80% from the line, something the Bulls haven't gotten from the center position in a long time. between Wallace, Thomas, Noah, Gray and Smith the Bulls should own the Boards and the defense so far looks even more suffocating than ever, I don't recall exactly how many inbound passes they stole last nite but I do remember 4 for sure and the wizards were held below 33% shooting from the field. it's going to be a very exciting season. as I said before Kobe made his bed in LA let him lay in it Chicago doesn't need the MJ wannabe.
Keith I guess this season you and will hafta tag team some of these guys instead of debating between ourselves, good to have you this side of the fence buddy.
BTW Roman I loved the dysfunctional family comment

The KG trade wasn't from lack of effort. With many teams including the Bulls, rumored to be offering more than the Celts gave, I am sure there is something to the fact that McHale hooked up his old team. You do not play that long without having loyalty to the celts. Because of KGs age no one was giving up too much, so he figured he might as well hook up his team.

I heard Gordon,TyrusThomas,PJ and 2 #1's or KOBE is on the table!!!!

***TRADE ALERT***
I heard Gordon & TyrusThomas and 2 #1's or KOBE is on the table!!!!RELIABLE SOURCE

also...

Bryant-Buss tension goes from drama to farce
October 17Los Angeles Times
"The grapevine almost went up in flames Tuesday when Bryant missed practice for the third day in a row amid reports that he had packed up his stuff and gone home."

Weird how this Thread has been stuck on (23) posts all day??!!??!

Roman responds: It's called a day off, look into it.

Think about this...if my trade rumor goes down.....heres what we would look like...

GAURDS
Bryant - 28pts a game/ shut down defender/ can hit clutch shot
Hinrich - Good point passer and solidD/heady floor general type ;)
Seflosha - A bigger Kobe
Curry - Spark of the Bench
Duhon - Can control tempo, good three point shooter in clutch

FORWARDS
Deng - Potential All Star Year
Noc - Wolverine/ Energy guy/ Shooter if open/ can take to cup
Smith - Will compete for 4th starting spot

CENTERS
Wallace - Headband is Back so will be his game!
Noah - Energy Encarnate / Hustler / Probably the reason the headband was allowed back
Gray - AirCraft Carrier type we will need in playoff run. Could be sleeper Big man pick up of the entire draft!

IMAGINE THIS LINE UP LADIES AND GENTLEMAN
Kobe Bryant
Kirk Hinrich
Do-all Deng
Joe Smith
Ben Wallace

UMMM>>>>WHERE SHOULD I SEND TROPHY #7?

BEURTO CENTER OR STRAIGHT TO GRANT PARK?

(if someone says skiles will object...i will literally puke on you and you will hold no water with me on any subject ever again)

BCulz if that deal goes through I will by a Cubs hat and wear it to the Cell! Aint no way! Your air conditioner must be out again!

easy killer..it was a MJ's ghost reference to post being stuck on 23, not a knock on your post response ability.

maybe you need to take another one off....relax a bit.

ill cover for ya..

;)

Roman responds: Gotcha. Sorry.

Kobe is only playing with our heads until he get what he want from
Mr.Busse,which is another bonus.
He will never leave sunny calif.for frost bite Chicago
He would never bring his young wife to this city.
Besides they don`t want to xxxxJack N. off.
No Kobe is toying with somebody.
Get the money Kobe Your worth it.
P.J.Brown
Ben Wallace
Joe Smith
And whatever else come off the bench.
Same as the Bears no superstar on offense or defense.
Wake me up win Baseball start again.
Bears Secondary can`t catch a cold,yet they got EXTENSIONS!!

Iam exhausted this week.
Can`t keep punishing myself watching the same mistake every week
then listen to the cocky excuses.
They messed with the 84-85 Bears....Now they sent key people away from last years team.....Terrible!!!!

Shawn Merion P/F PHOENIX would be the star that would put the baby Bulls over the hump.
He is not happy in Phoenix.

***TRADE ALERT***
I heard Gordon & TyrusThomas and 2 #1's or KOBE is on the table!!!!RELIABLE SOURCE

IMPOSSIBLE...$ don't match.

"Duhon - Can control tempo, good three point shooter in clutch"

Unless of course he spent the prior night on Division street and got home at 4am, overslept and got to pre-game warmups late.

Like in a playoff series against Detroit.

Have to weigh in on this one. Who remembers the 76er's with Dr. J and some role players. Along came Moses Malone, league MVP, and then comes one of the best teams in NBA history. Who remembers 1987 MJ leading the team in every category and averaging almost 40 pts per game. The Bulls scrapped to 50 wins but it was a fluke. The one thing about this team concept is it leads to slow starts. That has been the Bulls pattern every year since the Pax/Skiles era has begun. A true superstar eliminates a lot of those slow starts, leads the team to a better record and a better playoff position. See, Cavs last year for some context. The only thing that helped them was a great playoff position. They weren't better than the Bulls or Pistons. But, they drew a banged up Pistons team, an injury plagued Washington Wizards team and an older New Jersey Nets team. I'd trade Gordon, Noc and Tyrus Thomas plus some draft picks in a heart beat for Kobe. I'd even switch Noc with Deng although they won't have to now that Buss has opened up his stupid mouth. Wow, he is an idiot. First, he runs off Shaq now he alienates Kobe. His ego is ridiculous. He is worse than Donald Sterling. At least the Clips have a pulse.

"I heard Gordon,TyrusThomas,PJ and 2 #1's or KOBE is on the table!!!!"

That is GREAT! Especially a trade involving a player (PJ) who is no longer on the team!!

Kobe must be dropping these hints! Where are yall getting this information?

JT you are wrong about Dr. Buss. He is one of the smartest and most successful owners in the bidness. Just because he stated the obvious does not mean he will not get what he wants for Kobe. Kobe is the best scorer in the league, and Buss simply used that hype to open the floodgates and to straighten Kobe out at the same time. Anyone not making a serious offer will be completely disappointed.

Labron is the best overall talent in the league right now, but there is a storm brewing in Orlando and Dwight Howard is going to reign like Shaq in a few short years. These are just two of the stars that if they were available you take over Mr. Bryant RIGHT NOW. Thats a lil sumthin-sumthin for all these Kobe droolers.

Bulls have bigger problems than Kobe can handle. PLAYOFFS are not Kobe's forte. When the BULLS wanted and needed him just a few years back - what did he say? HE SAID NO!!! But now that we have gotten further than he has, he wants to run with us. I respect T-mack more. He passed up on the Bulls in free agency also. But he had the heart to put his playoff woes on himself and not the team or organization! Kobe has run out of excuses and now he's blaming the Western Conference and wants to go EAST. He's looking for something that should be in his chest - heart!

JT...note how I retracted that PJ was included in my next post...but it got posted anyways...nice try..but you dont get any points for busting me out, since I caught it myself. Actually, there was another player mentioned, but I missed it. I was buy ordering my steak, when I over heard this one. VERY RELIABLE SOURCES. Maybe Griffith or someone with a bigger salary.

Ernie...preach on brotha...you and I can make this happen...just keep beating the drum.

Tommy...im sure Duhon partying on division street really was the crucial factor that cost us our playoff run last year. Maybe if our 3rd string guard woulda been in bed by 11pm we wouldnt have gotten swept?? Nice call.

Annonymous....check out the trade machine....

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=99~2429~2377~996&teams=29~29~29~4

and you will see that you are WRONG!

BearOne....Marion is a bigger cry baby than Kobe...he leads the team in Minutes and Salary and he still crys about not getting the spotlight. What a Dbag. Talk about a log jam?? just what we need, another Hi Energy guy who can play D and jump out of the Gym, but cant shoot. Ummm.....dont we have like 7 of those guys now???

KOBE IS THE ONLY ANSWER

Without Kobe we will forever get shalacked by the other East Conference Stars...LeBron, Dwade, KG and Howard for the next 10 years.

WAKE UP A SMELL THE FUTURE......ITS #24 or #8 depending....

Keith, My finace' has the cutest little Pink Cubs hat that we would be happy to let you borrow for Wsox home opener!

Lets say....Kobe trade goes down period. You wear hat?? You take picture and Roman puts in the ST.

You wanna take the bet?

Roman Modrowski:

"It's fun to think about."

No it isn't.

Um, hello? It's "Berto." Betcha didn't think I'd catch that one, BC!

bculz

my point is that if you think Duhon has ANY trade value, especially now that his late night exploits are well known, you're delusional.
"Duhon - Can control tempo, good three point shooter in clutch"...yeah, if he was back at Duke.
Based on you proposed trades which have no redeeming value considering they don't match up financially, and your love for Duhon, I just nominated you as President of the NBA stupid!
congrats

bculz are you related to Jay Marioti or are you sharing a bong with him? the two of you think Kobe would own Chicago and win untold numbers of titles...it ain't gonna happen! Pax is not gonna sell the farm only to be left with a tractor with nothing attached to it to plow the field with. Kobe ran Shaq outta LA and thought he had his Scottie Pippen in Lamar Odom and it didn't happen now he's pointing the finger at Buss and the organization. How long do you think it would be before he would be blaming a 9th place Eastern Conference finish on Skiles and Pax? Let him wallow in the mess he created. The Bulls don't need his baggage! You and Marioti need to wake up and smell the manure you're shoveling!

Chris Duhon hits the sauce? my kind of guy (lol)and he still come to the uc and run that team when they are in trouble and hit a few
3`s.
Note to the Bears you need a CURTIS GENTRY.

Culzie - my counteroffer! Deal doesn't go through and you do the same with the pink SOX hat! I will keep mine if you keep yours! Roman - the loser does NOT get to post until picture is displayed!! Let me know Culzie.

If that is the deal, I cannot blame Pax for pulling the trigger. And will gladly wear that pink Cubs Hat!

Bculz...you're the classic "ready, fire, aim" blogger.

What trade machine says your trade idea works financially? IT DOESN'T

When were the Bulls swept? Last I checked, it didn't happen last year.

Try thinking before you type.

Frank (see anonymous)

BearOne

Pick one...do we need curtis conway or dennis gentry?

Roman Modrowski:

"It's fun to think about."

That NBA dynasty wouldn't last more than fifteen minutes into the first game of the season.

BearOne....Marion is a bigger cry baby than Kobe...he leads the team in Minutes and Salary and he still crys about not getting the spotlight. What a Dbag. Talk about a log jam?? just what we need, another Hi Energy guy who can play D and jump out of the Gym, but cant shoot. Ummm.....dont we have like 7 of those guys now???

At least 7. I'm tired of hard working guys that get the most out of their talent. I want to win and the NBA is a superstar league. Hell, when D Wade was dropping big shot after big shot on Dallas a few years ago and Lebron was hitting 24 or whatever that number was straight on Detroit, I was wishing for anything in the ball park from my team. Instead, we have Ben Gordon a.k.a. "Mr. Big Shot sometimes" and Kirk "the little engine that could" Hinrich in the back court. Then we have Loul "I'm almost in the All Star game" Deng and Andres "Kurt Rambis 2007" Nocioni. Last but not least, we have Ben "I owe Rasheed about 45 of my $60 million" Wallace in the middle. That team is not good enough to win a ring in the NBA. I'll take Kobe and his superstar, I want the ball in the clutch because I'll make it mentality any day of the week. For all of us that call him a chemistry killer, don't forget how difficult of a teammate MJ was reported to be behind the scenes. He smacked Horace Grant, hit Steve Kerr in the eye, was threatened with bodily harm by Bill Cartwright and gave Jerry Krause an inferiority complex. Well, only the Krause part was undeserved. All of these incidents were detailed in Jordan's book. He may have been the teams unquestioned leader but he brought his baggage also. Lastly, don't forget that we embraced Dennis Rodman here and he was the same guy that body slammed Jordan in 1998 during a regular season game. I never totally accepted him but I tolerated him because we were winning. I hate all things Piston, maybe except Isaiah and I give him a pass only because he's a west side native. I do recall most of Chicago cheering and chanting Dennis a few times. If he was accepted, don't think for a minute that Kobe won't be embraced and applauded here.

Don't sound too good Culzie! - Um looking forward to that photo! Make sure you send a nice color photo!

Hey Jewels, here's a good one for yah; Culzie is gonna be Pretty in Pink!! Is that David Bowie I hear singing?

Ernest...well done. Totally agree...Marion flurishes cuz of Nash. Do the Bulls have Nash?

Thank you Frank I get excited when the bulb come on.
D.Gentry
C.Conway

JT ,EARNEST AND ME.

The New 3 Headed Monster!

Listen...everyone....you can all relax. The trade may not go down for a couple weeks. But the writing is on the wall. They are not shipping Kobe to Dallas, same conference. So, the only realiztic option for Buss is the Bulls.

Keith, i dont think the counter offer you proposed is equivelant odds wise. I mean...there is a 0-25% chance they trade him. We need to handicap this bet somehow....?

David Bowie? The Psychedelic Furs sing "Pretty in Pink," Keith. That's okay - I still like the bet. And of course, I love the movie! Is there a deadline for the deal to go through for your bet?

I meant a 1988 regular season game in which Rodman slammed Jordan. I remember Oakley damn near getting to Rodman.

Culzie you were so confident the trade was gonna happen you challenged Keith and now that he has countered your challenge you wnat to back off and handicap the bet???? There was no mention of odds in your original post, what's the matter getting cold feet?
Sounds like the kid that lost the coin toss and now wants to go for 2 out of 3 LMAO. Let's be realistic (note the spelling since Julie hasn't weighed in on it) Kobe isn't leaving LA.

Tim that is a good argument. Culzie you shouldn't have posted that trade rumor since it was 0-25%. Thats a hardly reliable source. And you vouched for your source! I don't know man...I think you should have to send that photo. See where backing Kobe gets you?

No...Keith made the challenge and I made the bet. He was so sure that IT WASNT going to happen, that I bet it would. So, the bet was

TRADE KOBE = KEITH WEARS HAT

NO TRADE = KEITH NO WEAR HAT

Thatz all...

If he wants to counter bet, there needs to be at least a time limit or something...i Mean...how long do we leave it....so..therefore...MORE STIPULATIONS ARE CLEARLY REQUIRED TO HAVE A FULLY EXECUTED COUNTER OFFER BET.

Talking Kobe
October 22Dallas Morning News (scroll down)"Teams, including the Mavericks, that want to inquire about Kobe Bryant's availability and price tag have a perfect opportunity later this week at the NBA's Board of Governors meeting in New York. Los Angeles Lakers owner Dr. Jerry Buss is expected to attend, as is Mavericks owner Mark Cuban."

tic tock...tic tock...

Ok reading back through the previous posts Keith said that if your rumored deal went through he would buy a Cubs hat and wear it at the "cell". That is a simple statement of I don't believe it will happen but if I am wrong this is what I'm prepared to do to show I can admit when I'm wrong. Now on the other hand bculz, you wanted to escalate that into a bet BUT! you don't want to put up anything to secure your part of the bet, that is not a bet that is a dare! Unless you put up something to lose (ie. your pride)it's no bet, it's like saying ok coin toss heads I win tails you lose. soooooo I am gonna play mediator here and propose this scenario......Christmas day is Kobe to Chicago trade deadline, if the trade happens Keith wears a pink Cubs hat to the WS home opener takes a pic and sends it to Roman, if the trade doesn't happen culzie wears a pink Sox hat to the snake pit and takes a pic and sends it to Roman. Now Keith has already agreed to do that IF you are willing to, otherwise there is no bet and when the trade doesn't happen (and it won't) Keith gets the right to post an I told you so in all caps. Time to put your money where your mouth is culzie, so to speak, simple as that.

IM IN.

To clarify...ANY TRADE OF KOBE..it doesnt have to be my roomered trade.

Starters appear ready to do job
Published on Wednesday, Oct 24, 2007

INDEPENDENCE: For understandable reasons, more attention has been paid to who isn't playing for the Cavaliers than who is.

At this point, with the start of the season one week away, the focus is turning toward the Cavs' haves, not the have-nots. At least, that is the way the Cavs are attempting to look at things. The absence of Anderson Varejao, Sasha Pavlovic and Eric Snow has led to a somewhat-gloomy training camp and a depleted second unit that has been repeatedly vanquished in the five preseason games.

But that doesn't have anything to do with the current starters, who have quietly played reasonably well in limited time. Whether it's a result of planning or downright necessity, those starters are going to play far more minutes in this week's final two preseason games, at Toronto and at Boston. And probably when the season begins, too.

''We get paid to win games, and that's what we have to do,'' Cavs coach Mike Brown said. ''There's nobody that's going to come through the door that is going to save our behinds; the only way is by looking in the mirror and getting it done ourselves.''

Brown has kept the front line's minutes down in the early going, which is one of the reasons why the Cavs are 1-4 in the preseason. Tally the results from the first and third quarters, when the starters have played, and the Cavs are actually outplaying their opponents.

LeBron James has shown midseason form, leading the team in points, assists, and steals in just 23 minutes per game. Daniel Gibson has still not been able to become as much of a creator as the Cavs need from the point-guard spot he has just as many turnovers as assists but he's shooting the ball extremely well, hitting 46 percent from 3-point range.

Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Drew Gooden are rebounding well, which is a Cavs staple. Larry Hughes hasn't shot the ball well but seems to be pleased with the new offensive concepts, and he is making an effort to get to the basket more.

Most important to Brown is that the starting unit is also playing defense well. It even falls back on concepts from last season that the Cavs have not yet gone over in training camp while the focus is on offense.

''We've played really well,'' James said. ''The starters understand what it takes, and we know the system, so it is a little easier for us.''

In the short run, Brown's plan might be to rely on the starters to get the job done as he attempts to piece together a rotation that he can trust behind them. That is going to mean in

creased responsibility and a bigger workload for the front line, a concept the players have been discussing.

''We've talked about it,'' Gooden said. ''You have teams out there like the Phoenix Suns, and their five starters play more than 30 minutes a game, and if that is what we have to resort to, so be it.''

Jones working hard

The absence of Varejao and an ankle injury to Cedric Simmons left the door open for one of the free-agent big men in training camp to fill a void. Dwayne Jones, playing on a nonguaranteed contract, has been that man, impressing his coach with each practice and becoming a virtual lock to make the opening night roster. Jones isn't proficient at much, but he is a strong rebounder and plays with a lot of energy, which has shown up in the preseason, as he's averaging an astounding 18.8 rebounds per 48 minutes.

''I'm glad I got the opportunity; I've been working at it,'' Jones said. ''I don't care how I got it; I'm just glad I've been able to take advantage of it. Hopefully I have earned a spot, but it is not up to me, and things can change fast.''

LeBron on Kobe

James was asked after practice Tuesday about the possibility of Kobe Bryant being traded. It has basically been the NBA's hottest topic since June and has been rekindled of late since Los Angeles Lakers owner Jerry Buss told reporters he would be willing to trade his signature star. The Chicago Bulls, a Cavs rival in the Central Division, are a potential landing spot.

''Hopefully he's not traded to the East, but it looks like he's headed this way,'' James said. ''If he does, they say Chicago is the No. 1 place. It would be fun to play against Chicago four times a year. We're two competitors, and we love playing against each other.''

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Windhorst can be reached at bwindhor@thebeaconjournal.com. Read his blog at http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/.

LeBron on Kobe

James was asked after practice Tuesday about the possibility of Kobe Bryant being traded. It has basically been the NBA's hottest topic since June and has been rekindled of late since Los Angeles Lakers owner Jerry Buss told reporters he would be willing to trade his signature star. The Chicago Bulls, a Cavs rival in the Central Division, are a potential landing spot.

''Hopefully he's not traded to the East, but it looks like he's headed this way,'' James said. ''If he does, they say Chicago is the No. 1 place. It would be fun to play against Chicago four times a year. We're two competitors, and we love playing against each other.''

This is what would happen if Kobe were to come here:

Sports Announcer 01: Welcome, fans, to opening day for the Chicago Bulls. We've got a great game lined up for you today. Also the Bears have a new player today: Kobe Bryant has come from the Los Angeles Lakers.

Sports Announcer 02: But why is he sitting on the bench?

Sports Announcer 01: That's a good question. You see, Kobe has come down with a rare illness that causes paralysis. It's a rare disease known only as Beckham's disease. So, he'll be on injured reserve for the next two seasons, nursing a swollen crotch.

(Chicago fans start rioting)

Sports Announcer 02: What's this? For those of you viewing at home, a riot has started in the Chicago bleachers and the fans are now running onto the court. They appear to be headed straight for Kobe Bryant. And what's this? One of them has a chainsaw!

(Cue Chainsaw)

Sports Announcer 01: Oh my goodness! They appear to be sawing Kobe Bryant in half!

I'm a little confused about the current state of the Bulls. Big Ben's age and contract suggest a "win now" urgency. But Pax continues to stockpile talent as he has been doing for four seasons now. I like the core too, but wouldn't this team be better off with a star than with all this unrealized potential? Several All-NBA caliber players want out of their teams. Kobe has demanded a trade, Shawn Marion has demanded a trade, Gilbert Arenas plans to opt out of his contract after the season. Why not move some favorable contracts and end up with a back court of Kobe and Arenas? A package of Gordon (allstar talent) Duhon (decent point guard) and Khryapa (looked good in Euro championship) would almost certainly net the Wiz a better team than letting Arenas up an leave. And why not offer Hinrich, Nocioni and a draft pick for Kobe after December 15th when Noce can be traded. You can't tell me that a starting 5 with Agent 0, Kobe, Deng, Thomas and Wallace wouldn't win in the east. Your bench would be Sefolosha, Noah, Smith, Griffin and Grey and some small contracts like Curry and Gardner. I love Cap'n Kirk and Nocioni, but they're about tapped out in terms of potential. Gordon may be too. He's a 20 point scorer for life, but he's short at the 2 spot and can't (or wont) guard a folding chair. Why not push this team to its limits and utilize Big Ben for more than just mentoring and a bloated contract? We have to win now.

"Also the Bears have a new player today"

Yeah, I meant to say the Bulls. Forget basketball, this is a football town anyways (or so I've heard).

Let's get real for a minute. John Paxson does not have the basket BALLS 2 pull of a trade at his level of importance. This the same Paxson who has refused 2 get a single low post scorer in 4 plus seasons of running the Bulls. When Paxson makes a trade, normally the OTHER teams gets the best side of the deal. Let Paxson stick 2 the draft and bring in a GM interested in WINNING a title vs building a team good enough 2 lose in the 1st/2nd round of the playoffs every year.

Bulls players that should be gone and soon:
Noce
Hinrick
Wallace
Dujon

Maybe gone:
Gordon

Keylan - I am in TEARS crackin upp!
The Bulls are not the Cubs man.
Carlos - these teams want the Bull off the floor for their talent.

culzie you gettin cold feet or what? Keith's comment on wearing a Cub's hat to the cell was in reference to your rumored (note the spellimg) trade of Kobe to Chicago. Now you want to expand the parameters of the bet after you said "I'm in" to encompass ANY trade of Kobe. The NBA may have changed balls mid-season last year but they don't change rules until the off season. The bet was on YOUR rumored trade of Kobe to Chicago, now either accept it that way or all bets are off. You've obviously lost confidence in your "reliable source". Perhaps you should cancel your script to "The Enquirer" and read other articles in the "Sun Times" other than Mariotti's.

Tim you are on fire! I am dying! Culzie you welched! You know good and well you were refering to the rumor you got - from the "Enquirer" aaaahaahahahhahaaaaa!

First of all...my original trade had PJ brown in it....so...come on...

what are we talking about?

Trading Kobe? or wheter or not they throw in Adrian Griffith or a bag of Balls? I mean...i dont want to lose this on a technicality.

TimLittle...can you please draw up a formal bet proposal?

I mean....im sure there will be some tweaking...

So I would bet this..

Kobe for Gordon/TT and whoever else...

Deal?

and for the record...Keith never officially said he was IN...so...how am I welching..?? dont even try me.

Dont think you can Muscle me into a bad contract...

"i eat peices of S like you for Breakfast!

(you eat peices of s for breakfast?)

SHUT UP!!!!!"

OK...HERES THE DEAL.....

To Acquire Kobe without skipping a beat.

As a bulls fan i do not indorce this trade...only understand it is the only viable option on the table for Both Clubs.

TRADE : BULLS RECIEVE: KOBE BRYANT LA LAKERS RECIEVE: Ben Gordon, Andres Nocioni, Joe Smith & 2008-2009 1st round selections.

This Trade Provides the La Lakers with young talented Shooters, and the ability to greatly improve their team in the upcomming years depth and ability wise.

This gives the BUlls a starting Lineup of Ben Wallace(C), Tyrus Thomas(PF)[Tyrus next to Big Ben is an offensives nightmares..+..Big Ben is only getting older..], Loul Deng(SF), Kobe Bryant (SG), Kirk Hinrich (PG)....Excellent starting 5......NExt the bench with Sefolosha, Noah, Duhan, 3 solid enough backups..

This could and would work...

Culzie, my only criticizm was that you tried to change the bet from Kobe to the Bulls to Kobe traded anywhere so here is the so called formal proposal you asked for.....

If Kobe is traded to the Bulls before Christmas day Keith will wear a pink Cubs hat to the Sox opener....makes no difference who is involved in the trade,as long as it happens b4 12/25/07

If Kobe is not traded to the Bulls before Christmas day you will wear a pink Sox hat to the first game the Cubs play in the snake pit....

fair enough?

Marriottis article reports...

general managers John Paxson and Mitch Kupchak and even the owners, Jerrys Reinsdorf and Buss. Have no fear that Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Ty Thomas and Joakim Noah all would be lost to the Lakers, since King Kobe would veto the deal via his no-trade clause before allowing such a loaded package.

What he wants is what Paxson wants: To be paired with Deng in a newfangled version of Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, the shooter and the slasher, the egomaniac who needs the ball like air and water and the unselfish humanitarian who would complement him perfectly. Having won rings with Jordan and Pippen, Paxson knows that Bryant would need a Deng to win his championships. And with Kirk Hinrich, Ben Wallace, Andres Nocioni, Thabo Sefolosha, Chris Duhon and Joe Smith playing their roles, well, now hear this: The Bulls wouldn't be anything like the current mediocre Lakers, they of the lame supporting cast that led Bryant to make his trade demands.

No, they would become the best team in the Eastern Conference. Instantly.

If the trade isn't quite imminent, the Bulls-Kobe talks are becoming front-burner news on the national scene. The teams have discussed Bryant every day the last week, reports ESPN.com's Chris Sheridan, with Buss said to be pushing the trade while his daughter, Lakers executive Jeanie Buss, shares the opinion of her boyfriend, coach Phil Jackson, that Bryant should stay. Only in L.A. could a daughter buck her father and side with the guy she sleeps with, but this is why they invented reality TV.

FUNNY ARTICLE...

Also...Keith...are your palms getting sweaty? just a little bit??

Its so happening...

Kobe for Gordon/TT/Wallace

watch......its going down.

Thanks Tim...thats very clear...I am IN.

KLTSS?

Sounds Like KTLSS is having second thoughts???

I havent seen a confimed YES from my #1 brospeh!!!

Ok..ill throw in PJ...