Someone should tell Donovan to talk to Rex

Hit the nail on the head Romo...he can also talk to McNown, Mathews, et al.

Bottom line - high paid QBs will get hammered if they don't get the job done, regardless of race. Other than a few boo-yas at espn, and the people in Green Bay, people have been on Favre for 3 years now saying to retire! Now he's playig a lot better than McNabb.

2 other things:
- Why did he get compared to Palmer and Manning? Does he actually think he's as good as they are? 4 years ago maybe...today, he can't stay on the field let alone beat the Redskins at home!
- interesting how he used the Rush Limbaugh arguement in reverse.

Roman responds: Don't compare him to McNown or Matthews. Those guys weren't any good.

Mr. Modrowski, Mr McNabb was speaking in the essence of an overall perspective, with the statement about Black quarterbacks being criticized more.

Think Joe Gilliam, Doug Williams which are two black quarterbacks who received undue criticism because of skin color. Also, others who had to play in the CFL first (i.e) Warren Moon, to be considered NFL material before getting a try out with an NFL team.

Roman, you are viewing through your eye lenses, not his or any Black quarterback. Yes white quarterbacks get criticize, but do you think McNabb would still be the starting QB for the Chicago Bears when playing as poorly as Rex Grossman?

Remember the Chicago Bears had drafted a Black quarterback and relegated him to kick-off returns. When finally getting a shot, the team released the best receiver (James Scott) on the team at that time, and he didn't have anyone to pass to. Realistically he had to run or get sack damn near every play.

People go research Willie Thrower!

Roman, it depends on the perspective and I doubt very seriously if Limbaugh played into McNabb's statement, though it could have.

Roman responds: Douglas, those are the only lenses I have. Sometimes empirical data - ie booing - should be considered.

I noticed how we skipped over discussing Goodell and the Patriots, but its all "Good". But I will miss all of the posts calling for a lifetime ban of Bilichek and the Patriots to return their championships and have an asterisk by their records, etc...

Just my opinion, but I believe Donovan was referring to the fact that a great deal of racism is behind playing that position (same with coaching). Like how they have to be held to extra scrutiny and higher standards. Any position that requires athleticism, pays good money, and there are only a few blacks has to be suspect.

If Rex was black, he would be rooming with Henry Burris right now.

Roman responds: Huh?

See, this is what is unfair about the media. They take somebody's words and manipulate them. It is my opinion that when Donovan McNabb said white quarterbacks are criticized less than blacks, he was talking about GOOD black quarterbacks versus GOOD white quarterbacks. You can't include Rex, Eli, Rivers, Ryan Leaf, etc. They are ALL unproven bums. He's talking about the fact that when Peyton Manning didn't win, everybody blamed his defense. And believe me, Peyton, Harrison, and Wayne were a huge part of those losses to the Patriots. Meanwhile, when McNabb didn't win, people blamed him. Despite the fact that he has never had a real running game. And his only real good receiver was that basket case T.O. And take this into account, I am a person that can't stand McNabb and wouldn't want him on my team over Manning, Brady, or Palmer. I just wanna be fair and I wish you all would as well.

Roman responds: Unproven bums? Then include Donovan in that group. Rex has taken his team to as many Super Bowls as Donovan, in fewer years.

I'm convinced McNabb is the most insecure football player in the league. After watching him last night, I don't think he has much room to talk.
These HBO segements are a little like reality tv I think - get their guests to say stupid/controversial things to drive ratings. Go back and look at prior tidbits which leaked out before an episode aired.

After McNabbs last 2 games he should be criticized. He's playing as bad as Grossman. He's never done anything except choke in the SB against the Pats and I think he is also overated. I very seldom hear announcers say anything bad about him, even when he makes a mistake. Grossman takes a beating no matter what he does.

You know, I was thinking about the 0-2 Eagles just this morning. It had more to do with the bloggers and experts who picked Philly to win there division, some going as far as having the Eagles in the Big Game, than Donovan possibly making excuses for his teams poor start, which I strongly feel may have contributed to his thoughts. I really like the guy, but this Black and White stuff is getting old. What we need are more Latino, German or Samoan Q.B.s to stir the pot even more.

Better start winning Mr. McNabb, because I don't see any comprehensible excuses on the horizon. Then again, I don't see a top tier quarterback there either.

Donovan McNabb seems to be feeling the 'heat in the kitchen' and doesn't know how to deal with the pressure. And, for him to say black quarterbacks are criticized more than white quarterbacks is a copout!

Maybe, McNabb's trying to take some of the pressure off himself. But, continually using the "I'm getting picked on because I'm a black QB' excuse is setting himself up for a lot of criticism from football fans, especially his loyal Eagles following.

My prediction is this will be McNabb's last year in Philadelphia. And, Chicago, NY Jets, and Tampa Bay look to be good options for him next year.

BTW: I hope the Cowboys try to pick Tank Johnson's brain about the Bears, it should take them all of 5 seconds.

This from the son of Momma McNabb who said the Eagles success without McNabb last year was "bittersweet".

...The apple doesn't fall far from the tree

Tank Johnson joke:

A guy gets into a horrific accident car accident and his brain is severly damaged. His family is told they could get a brain transplant from a donor. The doctor tells them there are three donors and how much each brain will cost.

Donor #1 is Mike Singletary and his brain costs $50

Donor #2 is Richard Dent and his brain costs $10,000

Donor #3 is Tank Johnson and his brain costs $1,000,000

The family asked the doctor what's the big difference in the costs of each brain.

He replies, "Well, Mike Singletary was smart and was a coach on the field and he used his brain all the time. Richard Dent was only a good pass rusher and only had to use his brain a little."

The family asked, "Why is Tank Johnson's brain so expensive?"

The doctor responded, "It's never been used!"

Now you've done it Romo...opened up the floodgates for the socially mis-guided!

No, not criticized more, but black QB's don't get the same credit...If a black QB wins, it's because he is so athletic, and if a white QB wins...he's a genious...a field general...

Go back to the Superbowl when Doug Williams out passed and out classed John Elway.....badly...Joe Gibbs got the credit

Don't hear a lot of talk about Warren Moon and his football I.Q. do ya?...Seems to me if he wouldn't have went to Canada first, all the passing records would be his...not Marino's..but then again, he would have been a product of his system, right?

I didn't see the interview, either, but I know where Donovan is coming from..and what context he was putting it in..

and please, Rex's name shouldn't be mentioned in the same galaxy as McNabbs...Rex is the worst QB in the NFL....I think that's where he's ranked....32nd, right?

Even with Cedric...put McNabb in a Bears uni....we win it all

Well...someone tell Atlanta...

Leftwich signs two-year deal with Falcons - 1 hour ago
Would former Jaguars QB Byron Leftwich give the Falcons a better chance of ... He won't wear it with the Falcons. That jersey number technically still ...
Atlanta Journal Constitution - 209 related articles »

And the Spying continues....

Suspended defensive tackle Tank Johnson signs contract with Dallas ... - 1 hour ago
IRVING, Texas (AP) — Suspended defensive tackle Tank Johnson signed a two-year contract Tuesday with the Dallas Cowboys. Johnson, who played the last three ...
The Canadian Press - 276 related articles »

Roman responds: Spying? Please. Ron Turner was the defensive coordinator, and what did he give San Diego to attack the Bears' defense? Zoids. What was Tank going to say? Who parties the most?

Donovan obviously didn't hear about the 70,000 Jets fans cheering when Chad Pennington limped off the field week 1 either.

I'm trying to think of all of the consistently good or great QBs over the years who would have faced scrutiny for being good but not good enough for "white" standards:
- Warren Moon...hall of famer
- Randal Cunningham...good, not great
- McNabb...great for 4 years; not sure if he's good now
- Vick...oops
I'm guessing I'm missing a few but I can't put together this list of good QBs who McNabb says don't measure up and have faced this overwhelming double standard.
Doug Williams? Mainly a career backup with 1 great SB
?
Tavaris Jackson? ...sorry...couldn't resist

Donovan...it's called the pressure of being an NFL QB you dummy. Ask Rex, Eli, etc

If Donovan is speaking about something he's speaking on his own perspective. As a black man who is getting any type of criticism maybe he's just sensitive to what he feels. I can't blame him because he does get criticized as much as the next QB and it's only human to wonder if you're being singled more than the next guy. Plus he's in Philly where they criticize EVERYONE. These guys threw snowballs at Santa Claus. Also, living in a big city brings out more ugliness than living in a small town. Get a drunk guy who's way over the limit and you're bound to hear almost anything come out of his mouth. Maybe, he's still sensitive to the question that Rush Limbaugh started. Philly fans will make you wonder why they hate him ,on occasion, so much. It wasn't like they were Gaa-gaa over him in the first place. In Chicago he wouldn't get booed as bad as Rex because we give our hometown products more breaks than that. Which one did we want more to begin with? Since Philly fans are more critical why can't we see where he's coming from? Also, who got put on a better pedestal for being an up-in-coming talent at QB more between, say ,Vince Young and Tony Romo? Who got the bright lights and the Pro bowl nod? Who was the better talent? So, it's not so crazy to see who's a better cup of tea for the masses. When has a black QB been able to be propped up in his 30s compared to the number of white QBs who play well into their 30s for a number of different teams? A white QB will still get a job even if he's over the hill and get more chances than an older black QB. Where is Kordell, Jeff Blake, Henry Burris... Just kidding. But honestly where are those guys who were good and great at times. You can recycle Testaverde at 42. Sign Jeff George 2 years out of the league and have Jeff Garcia sign with a new team every other year. In Chicago we've given plenty of washed up players a chance at QB but ran Kordell out before the year was out. It isn't so much the criticism it's the amount of chances black QBs get and how their window of opportunity closes faster. Not getting opportunities is actions that speak louder than words. So if I was McNabb I'd see things and hear things that others didn't see or hear.

Roman responds: I've got a lot of problems with this one, William.
First: I thought the first part of your post was contradictory. You say he gets criticized as much as the next QB, but he says he gets more because he's black. And you sound like you agree.
Second: I'm not sure we give our hometown products special breaks. I covered Eddy Curry on the Bulls, and he got booed pretty good for being lazy.
Third: Vince Young and Tony Romo got the amount of praise they deserved. People raved over Vince. C'mon. I thought he was better than Romo last year, but I understood sending Romo to the Pro Bowl.
Fourth: You mentioned a couple of black QBs who did get recycled: Blake and Kordell. What about Rodney Peete? Do you really think an NFL owner is going to say: Hmm, let's see, I need a veteran QB to help us out. But I'm only going to recycle a white one? There was a time that would have happened (Im' reading a book on Pete Rozelle, and it did happen), but I doubt that's the case very often today.

If McNabb had said something like "there are still SOME people who will criticize a black QB more than a white one" - I could understand that - we know that's the case.
But to make a blanket statement like this is absolutely comical...especially from a QB who can't stay on the field.

Maybe 5 years ago he had a point, but I agree with you Roman. Grossman gets pulverized here, about half of it is deserved, but a lot of people actually sympathize with Mc Nabb from the T.O. fiasco.

Haven't seen the article either but Manning had been getting a lot of free passes over the past ten years. He didn't even lead his team to the SB and they were trying to call him one of the greatest qbs in NFL history. All changed for Manning last year, but Mc Nabb should just keep his mouth shut and try to win some games.

Another thing we agree on, Roman. Down with Rush Limbaugh! I suppose in some ways McNabb may have been thinking it was a matter of degree and the predisposition of bigots the world over to degrade at the slightest opportunity. Certainly one meets such people, who even resent ethnic groups or individuals when they are seen on commercials ( taking jobs away from Caucasians is the usual inane justification for their resentment ). On the other hand, I suspect the Rex critics would be perhaps a bit more vicious if Rex were Afro-American; that is, unless the Rex critic was an ethnic minority.

I saw the whole interview last night, and it's funny how, like you, I immediately thought of Rex Grossman. And since I saw the whole interview the context was that McNabb was whining and feeling sorry for himself. What he said also did not involve Limbaugh as McNabb never mentioned the honorable one's name in this interview. The interviewer, James Brown, said "don't all QB's get criticized"? McNabb responded "black QB's get criticized more". He also went on to say there are not many blacks that play QB and that people don't want blacks to play QB. You have to remember that McNabb is a racist, so this shouldn't surprise anyone. I say he's a racist because two years ago he said it bothered him when Terrell Owens said the Eagles would be better off with Favre at QB. But he also said it would NOT have bothered him as much if Owens said they would be better off with another black QB such as Culpepper or McNair. He said Owens' statement was similar to "black on black crime". So this proves this clown is not only mentally soft, but it also shows how he has that militant, black power attitude.

Jeff - good catch on the TO "black on black crime". Totally forgot about that already...I think he gets this from his mom. She was the one whining last year about it being "bittersweet" when the eagles did just fine with Garcia at QB

Back at you Dan for catching his mom's offensive statement last year. Also, if black QB's get criticized more, and that's a big if because Limbaugh told the truth four years ago, it's because most black QB's are mediocre to bad players. Go to espn.com and see where the six black QB's rank statistically after the first two games.

I think it's OK if a black man criticizes a black QB but I don't think it's ok if a white man criticizes a black QB.

Based on Jeff's post, McNabb sounds like he just needs a hug and we all need a class in sensitivity training. Why he sounds just like... hmmmmm... Zambrano... and the entire Cubs team of 2005, who ran Steve Stone out of the broadcast booth for being too honest... and Prior... and Dusty Baker... and that kid Olsen with the Marlins.

I guess the only thing athletes don't spend their millions on is a thick skin -- or perhaps a dose of reality. You play well, we love ya. Don't play so well, we love ya a lot, lot less. Don't play well for several games (e.g., the Rex-ster) and we begin thinking the back-up quarterback sounds like a viable option.

Guess what, Donovan? Play well and the boos will stop. It's a lesson Rex needs to learn, too.

JT, why did Romo do it? It is on every Sportsnews channel tv and radio.

McNabb did it. Not Romo

I agree with Keith, I didnt give Billicheat a pass. Maybe there is something to it. Maybe guys like Brady get a pass and Bonds doesnt.

I mean, if they were stealing Defensive Signals, who would benifit the most? Wouldnt it be Brady..

and what do you mean...PLEASE? Are you saying the Pats werent caught Spying??

I thought they were, otherwise, why the 750K in fines and loss of firstround/orsecondroundintheeventtheymaketheplayoffs ?

oh...your probably right, Jimmy Jones, knows how to break bad boys like TO and Tank right? He is the THUG WHISPERER right?

I agree with Keith, I didnt give Billicheat a pass. Maybe there is something to it. Maybe guys like Brady get a pass and Bonds doesnt.

I mean, if they were stealing Defensive Signals, who would benifit the most? Wouldnt it be Brady..

and what do you mean...PLEASE? Are you saying the Pats werent caught Spying??

I thought they were, otherwise, why the 750K in fines and loss of firstround/orsecondroundintheeventtheymaketheplayoffs ?

oh...your probably right, Jimmy Jones, knows how to break bad boys like TO and Tank right? He is the THUG WHISPERER right?

WRD...Burris is looking for 2 bedroom apartments in Toronto...1 for him and 1 for Rex if he doesnt get his act together soon.

Roman responds: I've got a lot of problems with this one, William.
First: I thought the first part of your post was contradictory.

Just the First part?

Its on Real Sports right now!

He needs a flipping tissue...seriously...Donovan sounds like he has a permanant sinus infection. Why he so Sniffy???

Not only that...but go back and read that THREAD about Tommie Harris's Comments about wanting McNabb as his QB...

http://blogs.suntimes.com/fullcourtpress/2007/06/are_you_buying_harris_backtrac.html#comments

You will see that TONS of people wanted McNabb over Rex.

Also....

explain this....william..seriously..

they booed Harrington in Atlanta...and they brought in a SLOW BLACK QB? not Athletic...but slow and plotty...so....how do you reconcile this with your argument?

There's nothing to really worry about with the black QB situation. Yes, black qb's do get criticized more; But when they do get in the league, they tend to keep a foothold. Culpepper, for instance, has been knocked down a couple of pegs-after being caught with his pants down while floating on the Minnesota River, acting a fool-but he's still hanging in there. Mcnabb himself came back from a career-threatening knee injury and he's back in the game. It took no less than a federal indictment to drag Micheal Vick out of the pocket. Yes, black quarterbacks will catch extra flack, but there's a great career ahead for those who stick around.

McNabb has personally experienced coaches who wouldn't play him at QB because he is black. That's something that I haven't experienced, so I can't tell him that he's flat-out wrong.

The flaw in his argument is that he compares himself to Manning and Palmer...HUH????? Surprised Brady wasn't in his argument.
McNabb is delusional...

What about how White Defensive Backs have to be faster and hit harder to over come the reverse stereo type of being slow.

or...

you dont see to many white Defensive Ends get drafted in the first round anymore either or Tail Backs...

nobdoy complains about that...

William...r u kidding about Kordell and Jeff Blake? They were stealing at the end of their careers (yes, like many white QBs). Who are you looking for...Shawn King to make a comeback?

There are brutal white and black QBs...they all get booed when they suck. End of story...

Why we expect these fools to be statesman and speech writers is beyond me, shoot, they can barely give interviews anymore either.

Since when were athletes expected to be eloquent speakers?

Not everyone is going to be like Bill Russle...(born on my bday by the way).

Roman responds: Donovan McNabb is not a fool. Where do you come up with this stuff? He strikes me as being an intelligent, articulate guy. I just don't agree with what he said.
I think some of the blow holes you listen to are the fools.

Jeff, I like and appreciate your candor. To be a black quarterback is rare. There are more than there used to be, but you know they paid a heavy price to be there. McNabb is speaking about what he knows, and he expected T.O. to know and appreciate his perspective. But T.O. only cares about stats/dollars, but thats another convo.

I trully hope you are eluding to a greater expectation of McNabb; that he would say "the best quarterback should have the job", because that would be right. But then again...that would be right for ANY job wouldn't it?

Roman responds: Keith, what do you think Donovan "went through" to be a quarterback?

So this proves this clown is not only mentally soft, but it also shows how he has that militant, black power attitude.

Posted by: Jeff | September 19, 2007 11:08 AM

Jeff, what is a militant? What is Black Power? What is attitude?
**

You have to remember that McNabb is a racist, so this shouldn't surprise anyone. I say he's a racist because two years ago he said it bothered him when Terrell Owens said the Eagles would be better off with Favre at QB.

Posted by: Jeff | September 19, 2007 11:08 AM

Jeff, this statement makes him a racist because a basket case wanted another guy as quarterback? T.O. didn't make the statement "A White Quarterback, he said Brett Favre", and I'm quite sure majority of Black posters did not view it T.O. implying it either. Considering he was McNabbs 'thorn in the side', any quarterback would have suffice for him at that time other than Donovan.
**

I think he gets this from his mom.
Posted by: Dan | September 19, 2007 11:26 AM

Dan, be very careful when addressing the Black woman, okay? If you want to rock with any Black male poster I think they will be more than happy to engage vernacularly with you, but do NOT bother the Black woman, especially mothers.
**

Roman responds: Douglas, those are the only lenses I have. Sometimes empirical data - ie booing - should be considered

Roman, I agree with empirical data, but what are you using except observing the booing from the fans? Where is the concrete statistical analysis of numbers to refute what McNabb is stating? I believe Donovan is going by numerous critiquing in the media, sports magazines, ESPN, columnists when it comes to Black QBs, not just booing. Yes, he is playing poorly, we all know wins shut the fans up!

Roman, let me ask a serious question and please respond. How many White cornerbacks and safeties are in the NFL? How many are wide receivers? In contrast how many Blacks are Quarterbacks? I want you to think of it from the other side and now contemplate if Donovan McNabb is being sensitive. In other words, we all know the QB gets majority of the fault when losing and the accolades when winning. But is it spreaded evenly(to keep down arguments) when it is Black QBs versus White QBs?
**

Posted by: Hitman | September 18, 2007 04:44 PM

Hitman makes a valid point!

Roman responds: As I've said before, I don't pretend to know what blacks go through in this country, so I usually don't challenge claims of discrimination. But in this case, I really don't think black quarterbacks get any more criticism than white quarterbacks. Julie makes a good point, New York fans cheered Pennington getting injured. What's worse than that?

Roman, i was talking about the "its ok cause its like Black on Black Crime" comment.

Not very thought out.

Also, Im curious to know...who you think i listen too...

you mention sean hannity all the time, but I dont listen to him much at all actually.

Tell me who you think I take my cues from??

Roman responds: Yeah, I figured Hannity, but I don't want to start a political discussion.

Manning got KILLED until he won BIG one. Favvvvre got KILLED last year, calls for retirement from everyone.

MAN I MISS DAN PATRICK!

Hitman...let's clear things up..

...."So Doug, how long have you been a black QB?"....Urban legend question which was NEVER asked during SB week. Even Williams concurred.

Randall Cunningham....good not great?...He "kind of completely...on his own" revolutionized the entire position of QB.
- Do you actually think he'll be in the Hall? PULLLEEAASE. He was Mike Vick before Mike Vick (and the dogs). Very solid QB.

Warren Moon and Dan Marino were the two best QB's to strap on a jock if you're confused - that statement alone Hitman makes you King of the Football Stupid!

Good to see there's no shortage of football ignorant.

YUCK......I am staying out of this one. Too many dips to the well and now it's all dried up. Just goes to show you that you can make a 'race case' out of anything,and there will always be fat white guys around to try to make it go away. What about Tank?....Did the Cowboys just sign him to get some secrets of the Almighty Bears 'D'??? will they release him n a week?

What's the problem Roman? I said he DID get criticized AS much as the next guy but it would be human to THINK you were getting criticized more. I gave MY opinion on HIS frame of mind without saying that he was right or wrong. I mentioned black QBs who didn't get as many chances as SOME white players who did. One guy comes out and says that black QBS are mediocre to begin with. Why is that? If he's thrown out there and didn't succeed right off the bat he's not getting another chance. A white QB making mistakes is a prospect. A black QB making mistakes can easily end up a receiver or just an athletic player riding the bench. Honestly look at the number of washed-up or never-was-even good QBs that we signed or drafted since Farve has been in Green Bay. Look at the opportunity that this town gave Kordell and you'd see that there can be a serious lack of fair shakes given to black QBs. Blake was stealing? How? Sitting on the far end of the bench? He sat,but we quickly gave Chad the starting position after one good game and how did that turn out? Have you honestly given thought to the players this team has had at QB in the last 12 years? Henry Burris was not the worst QB in all those players but look at who most of you remember as the worst? I knew that and that's why I used his name earlier. And since you mentioned what owners say about winning and deciding who to get at QB,why haven't we gone out and invested in a QB who WAS a winner? Yeah, you're right. Owners do go out and only get the BEST players. And Vince Young getting love in Tenn. isn't the same as what Romo got all over this nation. No way. I still read a bunch of articles where they were expecting Vince to come back to earth. I'm still waiting for that same article about Romo. And what's wrong with Leftwich? So he's not fast. Is that the only criteria YOU look for in a black QB? Why did he end up without a job for 3 weeks to begin with? So what, he was replaced by another black QB. What? On each team they're like Highlander where there can only be ONE. How does a QB fall so easily out of grace and out of a job and has to sit 3 weeks while some teams have back-ups who are totally unprovens and never-heard-ofs? Why is Culpepper one and done in Miami? Yeah, if I was McNabb I would be worried and I would take every little criticism the wrong way. Just like how you took my post the wrong way. And I'm sorry but you ALL gave Billicheat a pass. Donovan says some selfserving stuff and get a blog and Billichek cheats and MR.Whitepolicemankilledhisdogbyleavinghimintheheatandhe'sgoingtojail never mentions it. And we still don't have a blog about it. Black player sensationalism as always.

In a sport that utilizes as many players as pro football, it's safe to say 'you're only as good as those around you', coaches as well as Q.B.s, receivers, etc. Stud quarterbacks just make the situation that much better.

McNabb doesn't have the cast around him like those during their runs. It's also unfair to associate Rex having gone to the Big One as much as Donovan in less time. Grossman had a damn good supporting cast around him in a weak division last year whereas McNabb was going against a much stronger N.F.C. when he and their 'D' were at a higher caliber. If Rex takes us to the Bowl again in the next few years in what looks to becoming a stronger N.F.C. then I could agree with that statement. Until then, as has been the case with Grossman, the jury is still out. As for Donovan, he just sounds like a typical person who's always been a leader, be it Black or White, coach or general, having trouble coping with losing and the pressure that comes along with it.

No pardon for his choice of excuse, but anybody who knows the fans in Philly realize that does not ease the situation any less. No disrespect, but as a coach or G.M. I would take McNabb over Grossman at this stage of the game in a heartbeat.

I think this is what McNabb was getting at with his comments.

On a whole, the league and its fans, contrary to what Rush Limbaugh says, has maintained a lukewarm appreciation for the accomplishments of African American QB's, but is still apt to cruxify them when things go badly, and do so much more quickly than with other QB's.

And you see examples of this every year.

Take this season's draft. JaMarcus Russell was touted as a "physical specimen" with a "stong arm" and "solid athleticism." In other words, he's not cerebral. Brady Quinn is seen as the "golden boy" who led ND with his heart and toughness.

Russell, however, had a better completion percentage than Quinn, was more successful than Quinn in big games, yet runs about the same speed. Huh?

Doug Flutie was a scrambling, athletic QB. Yet he was always portrayed as mentally tough, gritty and a winner.

Kordell Stewart, who endured rumors about his sexuality, was also a scrambling athletic QB. Yet that's all he was to the media, even though he led his team to three championship games and, when you look at the stats, was just as (in)effective as someone like Flutie (huh?)

Warren Moon. Oh, he's just a product of his system.

Cunningham? A running QB even though he was always in the top 5 in yardage.

Culpepper? Had one of the greatest years by a QB in recent memory (same year as Peyton) but no one would ever know it. But he was on that boat.

Vick? Dog fighting aside, he has done things no other QB has done, cheifly run for 1000 yards, and he was a winner most of his career. But people always questioned whether or not he was a QB. But now, with Harrington, people ARE acknowledge to a greater degree what his problem may have been. When Brian Finneran was your best WR in history. . . .

Aaron Brooks? Put up some major numbers in NO, and was a leader on the team through the Katrina ordeal. Yet he was always seen as stupid. Now he's out of the league, blamed for not doing well with the Raiders.

Norv Turner bombs with the Raiders and gets a job.

I mean, I could go on, but the fact is, black QBs, as a whole, don't get the same type of credit as their white counterparts, usually having their "brain" dismissed, and are often on a shorter leash. They are under far more scrutiny on a day-t0-day basis.

Rex has gone through things he hasn't deserved. But I assure you, if he had been someone like Aaron Brooks. . . .

McNabb has become the guy who continually has the dark cloud above him. To wit:

- booed by Philly fans at draft
- Rush Limbaugh
- TO soap opera
- calling TO comment that he would rather have Favre as QB was "black on back" crime
- getting hurt last few years
- His Mom calling the Eagle run to the playoffs last year "bittersweet"
- getting called out by NAACP for playing "too white"
- HBO interview

Originally thought I want him over Rex but it's just a better QB with a larger cloud hanging over him

Speaking of Montgomery....

Tina Cheatham missed the civil rights marches at Selma, Montgomery and Little Rock, but she had no intention of missing another brush with history. The 24-year-old Georgia Southern University graduate drove all night to reach tiny Jena in central Louisiana.

"It was a good chance to be part of something historic since I wasn't around for the civil rights movement. This is kind of the 21st century version of it," she said.

Thousands Rally in La. to Support Jena 6
Sep 20, 8:54 AM (ET)
By MARY FOSTER
(AP) JENA, La. (AP)

Hitman, your visions of things make good sense. Your best Q.B. combo of Moon and Marino is suspect. Both were great leaders and quarterbacks and Moon was a physical speciman into his forties. They both had excellent decision making abilities on the field and were proven winners, but top TWO?

Not sure where Marino would be without one of the greatest offensive lines in the history of the game.

Not sure how Moon may have panned out without seasoning in the C.F.L. instead of possibly bombing in the N.F.L. from the get-go and maybe never recovering.

We'll never know.

I do know this though, Joe Montana was an excellent quarterback and field general, yet well undersized. Made few mistakes and many a right decision. Had a turf sense that can't be taught and was CLUTCH.

Tom Brady is simply put, A WINNER. Even with his coach and recordings in question, this guy continued to put his team in a position to win EVERY GAME OUT regardless of the talent put on the field along side him. Excellent arm and impressive football I.Q.

Payton Manning, barring injury, may well turn out to be the best Q.B. in the history of the game. Height, foot movement, arm, decision making, ability to read the field before EVERY play, student of the game, coach on the field, and you can just see his commitment to being the best because at no time during a game, and who knows at what other of his time, does he not use every moment and situation to continue learning. Probably the only person to ever put on a uniform who hypothetically can beat you by himself, or better put, outscore you.

As a teenager, I emulated Terry Bradshaw. Wore his number religiously. As a young adult I realized it was his teams triumphs I was working with, not his game. Had the Brett Favre gunslinger mentality and the recievers and 'D' to continually save his butt. There are many factors to making a WINNING quarterback but only so many to making a TRUE QUARTERBACK.

Moon and Marino are TRUE QUARTERBACKS, don't get me wrong, but putting all the plusses and minusses together, along with the intangibles gives me a very different perspective.

And for all the skeptics out there. I would bet the house if things went terribly south in Indianapolis and especially in Boston, Manning and Brady, along with their 'TEAMS' would be booed.

THAT'S the NATURE OF THE GAME.

Douglas, nice way to only print half of my statement concerning Owens' Brett Favre comment. I said McNabb is a racist because he said if Owens had said McNair or Culpepper would be better, then that would not bother him as much because McNair and Culpepper are black. Also, save the big bad warnings about us white men posting something negative about momma McNabb or other black women. Black people are not the only people who have freedom of speech in this country, as much as you might not think it to be true, but us white folks have that same freedom. So if I have to put up with the offensive and racist rhetoric from blacks that I read regularly on all types of blogs, then so do you.

So sick of racism issues in sports. Who even cares if he's right or wrong.

ZOMG YOU GUYS! DID YOU HEAR???? THERE WERE TWO (2) BLACK COACHES IN THE SUPER BOWL LAST YEAR!!!! AND ONE OF THEM....WON!

LDC - you're argument is over before it began comeparing Quinn and Russell. Talent wins out...the Raiders took Quinn at #1, Browns took Quinn #20. I don't get your point...
Your arugment is over before it began like McNabbs when he put himself in the same sentence as Brady, Manning and Palmer. Does ANYBODY think he's as good today as those 3? Come on...get real.

Vick...career 53% passing percentage. We know he can run and he won a playoff game at Green Bay. Congrats...

Warren Moon - GREAT QB; yes, stupid that he had to start in CFL but HE'S IN THE HoF..

Aaron Brooks...are you kidding me? Culpepper did have a career year, 1 of the best of all time but Manning had a better one. So..?

Surprised you didn't squawk about Tavaris Jackson at this point.

It's about results!

Pretty good assessment from Vince Young...I would say he's qualified to talk:

"I really feel like myself, black or white quarterbacks, we all go through something because that is the life of a quarterback,'' Young said Wednesday, according to the Nashville Tennessean. "You have to be able to handle all the pressure and you have to be able to handle the losses and you have to be able to handle the media saying this about you.

"If you can't handle it, then you have to get off that position and go play something else."

Translated...Donovan...quit whining.

Douglas, nice way to only print half of my statement concerning Owens' Brett Favre comment.
Posted by: Jeff | September 20, 2007 10:12 AM

Jeff, learn to know when you are being directly addressed in the future. It is called fundamental reading techniques.

Go back and re-read who I address. What you think is racist on other blogs, you don't have to bring it here. But what you have just proven is your racist nature with this one statement, "Black people are not the only people who have freedom of speech in this country, as much as you might not think it to be true, but us white folks have that same freedom. So if I have to put up with the offensive and racist rhetoric from blacks that I read regularly on all types of blogs, then so do you."

Why would I feel another person, especially white, would not have 'Freedom of Speech?'..Duh!.. Another thing, this is why different ethnic cultures can't get along because your feelings are "I HAVE TO PUT UP WITH YOUR OFFENSIVE AND RACIST RHETORIC!" That speaks volumes outside of this blog and other arenas in life. Exactly how often does 67% of America’s population have to put up with racism from others?

To become inflamed when several other individuals used your words to define/discuss a topic, and now you want to blow your chest up displays your true nature.

First and foremost, I did not address you! Secondly, I do not mind when another poster retorts to ANY post I put up, even if they do it negatively, as you have done. BUT I WILL POINT YOU OUT THIS TIME, since you wanted to step into the ring, DO NOT BOTHER THE BLACK WOMAN! Black posters are not dumping on white female posters or mothers of white athletes, ESPECIALLY IN THIS BLOG!!

Now find your small hole, come back out when you have something more feasible to say!

A wise man once told me never to argue about politics or religion because such arguments always ended up pontless with no one changing his/her perspective in the slightest. After laboring through these blogs, I think one could add racial arguments in athletics to the equation.
The Cubs won a great one last night in spite of the controversial catch?/trap?

Roman. He went through there being and expectation that because he is black - he should be an athlete. There was also an expectation that because he was black - he would NOT be able to think on that level. And I can bet you his parents taught him as many of ours taught us - you have to be twice as good to get anything (let alone what you might deserve). We have to bleed for what others waltz right in and get with the package. In every company - there are a few fellows/ladies that don't know jack! They are working and have a great paying job because they are the right kind! But this I can guarantee you - they are NOT black!

Donovan is still fortunate and he knows it. But that doesn't mean you forget history or you don't do your job - knowing what others may feel. And in his case...sometimes just verbalize it.

Roman responds: Ok, I won't disregard your point of view, and I think there's some validity to it, but I also think that ATHLETES get pretty easy rides as soon as it's noticeable they are athletes.
I'm going to guess Donovan did not have a hard time at Mount Carmel, at least as far as his football career.

Big Willie - GREAT POST! You get 5 stars ***** for that Highlander reference alone! You are A B S O L U T E L Y Right!

Navarro - good post! Bradshaw and Montana are some of my favorites! I also liked Doug Williams, Jim Plunkett and Hollywood Joe. Gotta love the underdogs.

Please stop comparing Rex to anyone. With that Defense, cmon man. cmon.

Probably should cut DM a little slack. These QBs have immense egos - the fact that he's not being included in the "top tier" of QBs probably has him bummed out vs. 3 or 4 years ago. Playing in Philly does not help...

I've noticed Roman,
when black men bring up the racial issue, a lot of these bloggers get very defensive. They act as if racism does not exist anymore, or they say it does exist, but I am no racist. Let me get this right, all of the bloggers know racism exist, which means someone has to be racist. Now if every blogger, who by the way most do not know each other, knows of racism, that means something racist must have happened in their lives. So, there must be more than one racist male or female running around doing this stuff. There are comments on this blog about McNabb that are downright racist, to hear a white man tell me what McNabb meant when he was talking about the T.O. comment is just ingorant. Did he give you the scoop on what he meant, or was that just YOUR opnion? That is how racism starts, someone doesn't know about a situation, and gives some off the wall comment to fuel their deepest racial thoughts. We black men see this all the time, then you give us one or two examples of the exception to the rule (statistically speaking, the normal curve for any analysis is about 90%, which means, 9 out of 10 people who do something is the standard acceptance that thing to be consided normal. If one out of ten don't do it, that is also considered normal.) So, to use Grossman only makes what he said normal from a human standpoint. Now, give me the names of about 18 more white qbs on the level of McNabb, and Doug Williams(black SB quarterbacks, 9 winners, then you have an argument. But 1 to 1, it is not the case. I've read some of McNabb's comments, and I agree, black QBs do get labeled quicker, and criticized more often than white QBs(Grossman is the exception, not the rule.)

Most white QBs in the NFL get an opportunity to show they are busts(and yes, your list of black retreads is accurate, you could've even added a few names Andre Ware, Charlie Batch), however, over the whole body of the league, and over their lives, which I think is more of what he was talking about, blacks are steered away from the QB position, or labeled as running QBs, a deterrent.

You said you do not know what it is to be a black man, McNabb was giving you a piece of info. and like most people who have not walked a mile in black shoes, when he tells the truth he gets criticized for it. Do any of these bloggers know how he was treated at Syracuse? What about H.S.(Mount Carmel I believe)? I know living in the city he was probably steered to play running back or WR or defense.

We black men try to be honest and tell you the truth about a situation, and some call him racist? I wonder if anyone ever told Archie Manning's sons not to play QB(that, I hope is why he used Peyton), or Brady, or Steve Young, or Favre, or Carson Palmer.

I believe he was not comparing the skill set, but the mind set(you ask why, it is because I am a black man, and when I even asked could I play QB to learn the position in the 80s, they laughed at me. Had nothing to do with skill, but blacks are not groomed to be QBs.

Don't give me this crap about "look at how many black qbs are in the league, where did they come from, small schools where they are usually the best athletes on the field", and you do want the person who has the ball in their hands almost all of the offensive snaps to be the best athlete on your team, don't you(as well as the most intelligent player), or do you want a statue who is not threat to run at all, or avoid the rush.

Still, Donovan, shut up and let your play do your talking for you, then come to Chicago.

It's not about where they were drafted, its about how they were described by the media.

Quinn -- smart, tough, gritty.

Russell -- big, strong, fast.

IOW, Quinn is smart, Russell gets by on his talents. Quinn is "NFL ready," but Russell has more upside if he "learns how to play the game."

Matt Leinhart is more ready, but Vince Young has more upside if he learns how to play the game.

Tim Couch and Cade McNown are more NFL ready, but McNabb and Culpepper have more upside if they learn how to play the game.

That is how most black quarterbacks are ALWAYS framed. And frankly, that is what most African Americans must endure on a daily basis.

People questioning their intellectual ability. People saying that, if they weren't "black" (which translated in QB-speak, not athletic) they would not have the job.

Further, people always like to dwell on what many black QB's have NOT DONE as opposed to their accomplishments. You just proved as much.

Is McNabb as good as Manning or Brady? No. Palmer is a different story. People forget that McNabb, less 1 1/2 years with T.O., has never had a top reciever, nor has he enjoyed any consistency out of the running game until recently. He has no Chad Johnson putting up 200 yards.

These are the excuses people use to defend Marino, and fairly so. But they are often forgotten when looking at McNabb's situation. He is indeed a top QB in this league, and he has the wins and stats to prove it.

Same with Vick. Atlanta has never gotten him one compentent WR until this season. Besides . . . I wasn't aware that QB's were not allowed to run.

This is another problem. Because the QB position has been defined by West Coast QB's, anyone who does not put up 65% completion percentages or 4000 yards in the air is considered a mediocre QB. It's a direct bias toward running QB's, and as we know, most black QB's tend to run. Again, looking at what Vick didn't do as compared to the "golden boy" standards, but diminishing what he did do with his feet.

That's stress.

Aaron Brooks? He was a top-ten QB in passing yards and TD's annually until the Katrina year. Did he throw a lot of picks? Yes. But as we seen this season, the problem in NO was never the offense, it was the defense. This was also the case with Brooks.

Yes, Brees is a better QB. But the idea that Brooks doesn't belong in the league is absurd, considering his pre-Raider track record. Are you telling me he couldn't be a backup as opposed to someone like Brooks Bollinger or Jim Sorgi?

And what about Tavaris Jackson? I didnt' realize I had an obligation to bring him up? If anything, you mentioning him is another attempt to discredit black QB's as a whole, a means of suggesting that they can't play.

Look at Jackson. Just another dumb running QB.

These are the types of things McNabb was talking about, the added stress and pressure black QB's must endure. People telling them that running the ball has nothing to do with the QB position. People scrutinizing every single mistake they made. People dwelling on everything wrong in their games, while not looking at what they contribute.

This is indeed what has happened to Rex, but its something that most black QB's have to endure on a regular basis, whether or not their team is winning or whether or not they are producing.

Isiah sez: "I think it's OK if a black man criticizes a black QB but I don't think it's ok if a white man criticizes a black QB."
______________________________________

Spot on!

Blacks can call anyone and everyone, including themselves, any and every name in the book; but the rest of humankind has to be polite in deference to their delicate sensitivites, lest they be labled as racists.

I'm Italian / German, and when I was a "ute" we all called each other names on the playground ... without reprecussion.

It didn't matter what nationality you were, when it came to the insults it was open season after school, and if you were too thin skinned to deal with it, you always had the option to play with someone else.

I'm about fed up with this double standard.

I'm a Lenny Bruce / George Carlan fan, and I don't like censorship in any of it's rapidly multiplying guizes. As far as I', concerned you can take "Political Correctness" and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

I can see where family publications like the Sun Times would have issues with vulgarity, and I respect their right to conduct bussiness according to their standards. Elsewhere, if I don't like what you have to say or how you specifically say it, I'll disagree in what ever verbal manner I please. But, I'll never try to deny anyone the right to say whatever's on their mind in any way they see fit to do so.

Douglas, the crucifiction of Don Imus proves my point of whites not having freedom of speech. As for all of the other blather you spewed out, I am not going to waste my time responding. I will however get nostalic for a minute. Last night on the METV network, channel 223, I watched the Dick Van Dyke show. It was a clean, funny episode without all of the nonsense that we have to put up with today. In the credits at the end it said the episode was filmed in 1961. Now I wasn't even that close to being born in 1961, but I thought how lucky people who were 30 or 40 years old in 1961 were to be living in that era. Because in 1961 the people didn't have to put up with Donovan McNabb's comments, or Isiah Thomas' comments on the "B" word, or the Jena 6 situation in Louisiana. Oh how lucky our parents were to have lived in that era.

Ive noticed that whenever race gets brought up, everyone becomes Earnest "Freakin" Hemmingway!!!

Also...Stuck says..
"YUCK......I am staying out of this one. Too many dips to the well and now it's all dried up. Just goes to show you that you can make a 'race case' out of anything,and there will always be fat white guys around to try to make it go away. "

Way to stay out of it. LOL

MRWRD. I actually did bring up Billicheat, and I coined the word Billicheat, go back and re-read this post and actually, I posted some stuff about the Pats being cheaters three threads ago. and...I actually agree with you and Keith on the Highlander Comment.

NO MAN IS MY EQUAL!

Every QB gets exactly the amount of flack or slack they deserve. I cant think of 1 QB who gets MORE or LESS sh*t that they deserve.

Warren Moon...about 71,000 yards passing....5 grey cups

Dan Marino...62,000 yards....

We're talking about the two best at the position....there were no two better...shut up and eat it..I mean really...

sorry the team around them didn't measure up.....

am I the only one who backs things up with references...and I'm, to sexy for my ......

"I would expect more out of a Varsity Letterman"...rob

LDC...you're one angry and mis-guided soul!

I skimmed over your posts... but I did see that you used the billicheat nomenclature. I don't want it you can have it. I put it in there as sarcasm. Hardee-har. I call a man by his real name because I don't just disrepect people like some people do. Plus it's childish to call someone out with a play on their name. Sound like Cindy Brady getting teased for talking baby-talk. What's next: Billicheat,Billicheat, It's a wonder you can walk?

LDC...

YOU brought up the challenges for black QBs. Isn't Jackson a black QB? I'm not allowed to bring his name up to make a point? Or is this Isiah Thomas logic working into the thread? Jackson is a bad QB, and yes, black. It appears he doesn't have to do more to play...just play on a bad team, that's all.

You have a serious inferiority complex man...

Stuck in Wisconsin, did you see the fat black guys in Louisiana yesterday trying to legalize black on white violence?

Disclaimer: Before anyone thinks I am trying to start a war or words, that is not the case!

Roman responds: As I've said before, I don't pretend to know what blacks go through in this country, so I usually don't challenge claims of discrimination. But in this case, I really don't think black quarterbacks get any more criticism than white quarterbacks. Julie makes a good point, New York fans cheered Pennington getting injured. What's worse than that?

Posted by: Douglas | September 19, 2007 05:54 PM

Roman, allow me to respond to your comment which I should have done initially. You and Julie are correct! But I do not know one sport where if the opposing or non-performing athlete does not get booed during their career. To boo someone when they are injured is simply displaying ignorance. That is not gamesmanship! I have booed many of players, but when you do not see the athlete not moving, a common sense gene should kick in and tell you STOP!
I boo the HELL out of Rex, but if he went down there is no way, I am going to be giddy because he is hurt.

Prime example of this was when L.T. knock Theisman down, and broke his leg he was the first to IMMEDIATELY SCREAM to the sidelines come and HELP the man!

You seem to be a good guy Roman; no one is trying to beat you down with the Black Power psyche as some posters seem to take it! But Blacks have to give a different perspective for others to LEARN HOW TO VIEW the rest of the 270 degree circle. Too many times, I feel others have blinders on and refuse to use their peripheral vision to notice the travesty going on unless it affects those who look like them. In other words look to the left, look to right, there are other HUMAN BEINGS on this planet besides you! Then there are complaints about the less fortunate not holding up their part or maintaining a certain level of civility, yet it come as criticism of the worst kind.

If I criticize you all the time Roman, you are not going to like it! You do not have to be Black to understand the constant barrage of criticism, slights and innuendos to realize unfair attacks when speaking about continuous injustice whether perceived or real is not mentally healthy.
*****

Comments by Mark Villano:
It didn't matter what nationality you were, when it came to the insults it was open season after school, and if you were too thin skinned to deal with it, you always had the option to play with someone else.

-- Words spoken truthfully, but understand, children say cruel things and do not know the magnitude of the hurt behind them. But as you stated, if tender-skin no matter the school, go play with the other kids. But when becoming adults to you must adjust to live peaceful in civility.
**

I'm about fed up with this double standard.
-- (One more time with feelings!) Wouldn't life be wonderful if there NEVER WAS ONE TO BEGIN WITH? (No further social commentary needed)

I'm a Lenny Bruce / George Carlin fan, and I don't like censorship in any of it's rapidly multiplying guizes. As far as I', concerned you can take "Political Correctness" and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
--Lenny Bruce-No! (I ain't that old, plus he was not funny to me), George Carlin-Yes!(Hell, he is funny)

Review the link to tell if he means everyone or just a few.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=935607276

Posted by: Mark Villano | September 20, 2007 03:16 PM

Additional Comments by Mark:

Blacks can call anyone and everyone, including themselves, any and every name in the book; but the rest of humankind has to be polite in deference to their delicate sensitivites, lest they be labled as racists.

--No we cannot do that! The media has you thinking we can, but we can't! Please believe me, NOT ONE DECENT BLACK AMERICAN LIKES TO HEAR VULGAR GANGSTER RAP LYRICS!

--We do not control the music industry, so guess what comes out?! When Hip-Hop and Rap was in its infancy the music was about social issues. It was no different than Rock & Roll in its inception! This is the part other ethnic groups will not familarize themselves with. PLEASE, PLEASE ASK YOURSELF HOW DO 12.5% of America's population propogate such a degrading music without the distribution of the larger society not helping? The dominant society has been able to effectively squash other gains, so why NOT THIS ONE? Even if Blacks went underground, do you really think the music would have taken hold WORLD-WIDE? If that is so, why in the HELL CAN'T BLACK PEOPLE NOT do this ECONOMICALLY by Importing & Exporting goods and services in other areas to become economically independent? It has nothing to do with immediate gratification purchases.

I'm Italian / German, and when I was a "ute" we all called each other names on the playground ... without reprecussion.

--Mark, I do not know what you mean by repercussions, but Blacks played the dozens with one another, BUT SOME JOKES, were not told, ESPECIALLY if a kid! A fist-fight might break out, but that was it. As adults we still go for it, but if someone tells you, I do not play like that! That means the person do not joke around like and to leave them alone.(No hard feelings)

EVERYONE do not take my words personal, but yet try and understand it from THIS Black man perspective as I will yours. Eventually, you will begin to view me less as a Black man and more of a human being.

It goes on in the NBA as well...black writers don't think players like Nash measure up.
Same thing...happened with Bird when Rodman and Isiah said the only reason Bird got so much attention is because he's white.

Ill take that as an apology.

I have no inferiorty complex, nor am I misguided. I'm just pointing out something people don't like to discuss.

African Americans are treated differently in America, and it's ususally not for the better.

And once again, this example with Jackson speaks to my point.

He clearly was brought up by Jason, per his last comments, as a means of showing "proof" that black QBs aren't very good. That all a black QB need to do to get playing time is "play for a bad team," meaning black QB's get a sort of preferential treatment.

It's this type of framing of black QB's that McNabb was talking about when he made the claim.

The fact is, quite frankly, there isn't enough evidence about Jackson to make such assertions. He is a second-year QB who has played in a total of six games. It is quite common for young QB's to struggle that early in their career,

And frankly, his last, one in which he played injured part of the game, wasonly his second true stinker. Not bad relatively speaking for a young QB, especially one with a young, mediocre recieving core led by the likes of Bobby Wade.

It is also not uncommon for teams to give highly-selected draft picks a chance to start, especially when no other options are available. Jackson was a second-round pick. While one can debate whether or not that was a reach, the team clearly wants to see what they have in their investment, just like many other teams have done the past several years.

Guys like Alex Smith, JP Losman, Charlie Frye, Matt Leinhart and someone named Rex Grossman (and in another way, Kyle Orton) were given the same chance to sink-or-swim early in their careers by their coaches in recent memory.

Did they get the job because they were white?

With no real justification, Jackson has already been thrown under the bus as another example of a stupid black QB. This is EXACTLY the problem.

Posted by: Anonymous

Warren Moon...about 71,000 yards passing...5 Grey Cups

It makes sense that someone with the name Anonymous would compare Canadian Football stats against those with N.F.L. stature. How many N.F.L Championships did Moon win again? I think I missed it. How many yards did he average per year in the N.F.L., I think I missed that one too? Can't say anything bad about Marino, but he did have a few chances in the mid-eighties with a good squad to win a few.

Good point Jason...that dirty little secret is kept pretty low key.

REX UNDER PRESSURE

If Rex Grossman thought he was under pressure in his last three games, including the Super Bowl, wait until Sunday night against Dallas. The way he plays will determine where the blame or credit for continually playing him will go to. Is it Jerry Angelo? Is it Lovie Smith? Is it Ron Turner? Or, is he related to someone in the "Family Secret's trial?

Greg Couch's column in the Chicago Sun-Times on Friday, "Is it in His Head", his suggestion of letting Grossman 'let it fly' is part of the problem. Many people have suggested this and I believe the are all 'off-base'.

If anything, Ron Turner should rein him in until he improves his field vision and 'check-downs', limits his mistakes, and leads the offense on more than one long scoring drive. Rex is more of liability than anything else until he proves differently.

The drive before half against the KC is a perfect example of what he's prone to do. Instead of driving the offense down the field to put up another score, at the KC 42 with under one minute and one timeout, he destroys their chances with bad 'decision-making' and passes.

First, he throws a 'helicopter' pass towards a confused Bernard Berrian incomplete with Adrian Peterson wide open and a chance to get deep in KC territory. Then, he throws too high for Peterson on a screen. Next, he gets a ball batted in face on a third and long pass play, while not in the shotgun. All this took place after Peterson took two dump passes into KC territory. Why not continue to throw to him?

Who's fault is it for this to continue to happen? Grossman? Turner? Lovie Smith? Or, Jerry Angelo?

Queen's song, 'Under Pressure' will be running through everyone's mind on Sunday:

Pressure pushing down on me
Pressing down on you no man ask for
Under pressure
That burns a building down
Splits a family in two
Puts people on streets

Navarro..."It would make sense"...Navarro...stick to counting the panels on a soccer ball..

pay attention to the ellipses....(the dots)

Well..to be fair those kids hung nooses from a tree that the black kids werent suppose to sit under. The fact that there was even a tree that they werent suppose to sit under is ludacriz enough, the fact that when they did, some dbags hung nooses there. Id a wanna to beat that kids ass too. White or black.

Thought it would be interesting to see what another QB of African dissent had to say.

Jason Campbell was asked about his friend's comments today, and here's what he said:

"As a player and as an African-American quarterback, sometimes you have to support other African-American quarterbacks in the league. At the same time, that is something I can't get caught up in. That's his opinion and some other peoples' opinions, but I look at everybody the same. I respect everybody the same, anybody who plays the quarterback position. It's the hardest position to play in professional sports. I support any guy that's in a starting position or getting playing time in the quarterback position. You get graded, you get rated differently than any other position on the field.

"For 90 percent of the game you have the ball in your hands, and everyone's watching you and all the mistakes that you make. Since you are in the spotlight, everything gets noticed. It's a tough position to play, but at the same time you have to have a short memory. I don't look at it as a color issue; I look at it as all of us in a brotherhood together."

Hmmmmm......kinda sounds like he doesnt agree.

I wanted to stay away from this one. There are too many closet Bill O'Reilly's whenever a racial post crops up, but I can't. I have to echo some of the things I've heard. I'll preference my statements however with my own personal perception. McNabb needs to stop whining and just play football. The one thing I always tell my employees is that we can't change perceptions by talking about it. We have to be about it. In my company, I'm in middle management. I think I'm quite intelligent, cerebral and good at what I do. But, I feel from my peers that they view me as "unpolished". My manager even went as far to say that he prefers me that way. That thought process has transferred to my peers that seem to "pooh pooh" my impact on our management team. What they don't know is that I've become a focal point for a lot of the management tactics and strategies for our director and area vice president. It's only because I've shown a willingness to come with solutions and then I've shown the aptitude to implement my suggestions and make them work. Yet, my peers still attempt to minimize my impact by using big words, supposedly over-my-head humor and display a general arrogance like I'm the low man on the totem pole. My superiors notice it and constantly reassure me of my status and have even gone as far as to connect me with leaders in other departments to help me advance my career. However, I know I have to stay one step ahead of them all the time.

Translate that to McNabb and black QB's. They are always viewed as athletic, physical and gifted. Never smart, NFL ready or gutsy. They are viewed as nonchalant, unpolished and only able to get by on talent alone. Now, in fairness do some fit the stereotype? Sure. By why do all QB's have to carry the stigma. How about Black coaches? Sure Lovie and Tony did some great things last year, by why does Norv Turner keep getting head coaching jobs when Dennis Green is still sitting on the sidelines. Green has had much more success as a head coach than Norv. How about Blatche that used to be def coach for the Bears. He was widely viewed as ready but Gibbs is back in Washington and failing miserably. How long did it take Marvin
Lewis to get a job during the constant Parcells recycling? There is a double standard for black QB's and coaches in the pros no doubt. The best way to shatter a stereotype however is to perform when you get a chance. That is all that McNabb can do right now.

Last, there sure are some racist overtones here, but I think some of you are just fronting for responses.

I knew that was you "Hitman", was just wondering why you went into a shell with your closing address seeing as it's a blog and not a face to face confrontation. Actually I don't play soccer. B-ball, football, 16" inch softball, ping-pong, tennis, baseball, etc; you know, all the physical sports a blog geek only writes about cause he hasn't the ability to play them otherwise he wouldn't spend all his time writing bull about what other people think. Now, get off your pad and start learning some physical attributes instead of heaving cowardly-over-the-blog insults at people.

Navarro, A.
Athlete

As far as Grossman goes, black or white, he's terrible. My problem with him is his lack of pass rush recognition skills. He just can't see it. I feel like if he would just step up into the pocket every once in awhile he would have a better success rate. I've rode with Rex because he was one of only two QB's in the SB last year, but we have a really good team this year and he's our only liability. I don't want to miss the boat this year because one guy can't hold up to pressure.

Review their careers and stats of Mr. Moon and Mr. Marino, (but we all KNOW, having great STATS without the Trophy means nothing, right!) Mr. Moon has five, how many does Dan have? Oh-Yeah baby, nada, zip, zilch, ZERO for your HERO Mr. Navarro!!

Posted by: Anthony Navarro | September 21, 2007 03:00 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Moon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Marino

Just wondering what the white posters think of Joe Theismann & Marv Levy who was former CFL player and coach respectfully. Are they worthy of YOUR praise?

Considering Marino NEVER WON a Championship, and Mr. Moon lead his teams to FIVE (count slowly) TITLES makes me think a particular poster is envious.

..Moving along,

previously and presently George Mikan considered the FIRST BIG MAN to play the center position with grace, given props by majority of the BLACK centers who played the game in the past or presently playing now. I know Shaq gives him BIG props! Was John Havlicek the face of Boston or Bill Russel? Was Danny Ainge the clutch man or Kevin McHale? I am picking on Boston because a poster says Larry Bird was not considered a good player by Blacks (writers, athletes, and probably black people in general).
Celtics won a lot of championships with those white guys….hhhmmm…..I guess they were not that good. What you say to that Auerbach? HEY, HEY! NO SMOKING IN THE ROOM MAN!...No wonder you guys can’t see anything! All this damn smoke in the room!

Oh don’t forget to ask Magic Johnson who his toughest competition was along with Dr. J.

Posted by: Jason | September 21, 2007 02:23 PM
Posted by: Mitchell | September 21, 2007 03:20 PM

You guys make this WAY TOO EASY at times.

Bad or Good Rex? Or, Is It Good or Bad Ron?

Well, we all know the game depends a lot on Good Rex or Bad Rex. But, what about Good Ron (Turner) or Bad Ron? Isn't time Ron Turner starts to get the blame for the Bears poor offensive performance? Why is it always dumped on Rex?

Ron Turner SHOULD have some kind of grasp about what his players can and can't do by now. Last year, QB coach Wade Wilson was fired and rightfully so due to his inability to correct Grossman's poor fundamentals and reads. However, the Bears hired Pep Hamilton to strictly work on those things and isn't included in the play-calling or game planning, it's all in Turner's court.

Rex has been told so many things lately about his play that he seems to be frozen at times in what to do. But, the one thing I will tell Grossman to do is RUN, REX, RUN! If he scrambles that will open up the defense and allow some cushion for his receivers and help offset the huge pressure he's sure to face on Sunday night.

Bculz,

two posts of yours I actually agree with. Campbell is right in his own way. McNabb's is a big name player and his comments do not represent all black people's comments(but they do mine), yet I can respect Campbell, becuz it works for him. Blacks are of different opinions just like other nationalities are, but you are right on both points you made about Jena 6 and McNabb. We may be of differing opinions, yet the truth can bring anyone together anytime.

I just wish more people, of all colors, can see how stupid it is to have a whites' only tree, or blacks' only tree. That is how inbred the racism is down there for both cultures.

Cambell and Young are too new to the NFL to know the inner workings of the NFL like a veteran would. Give them a few more years and broach the question to them again. I'm fairly new to my job and I thought it was peachs and cream. But 6 months later I'm not approaching it the same way. And where did DM and Campbell becomes friends. I didn't know they were friends. It's great to know that someone ordinary guy on the ST sports blog have all this inside information. Sounds like another PEREZ HILTON but for the sports fanatics. Well done,again.

Douglas sez: "Additional Comments by Mark:

Blacks can call anyone and everyone, including themselves, any and every name in the book; but the rest of humankind has to be polite in deference to their delicate sensitivites, lest they be labled as racists.

--No we cannot do that! The media has you thinking we can, but we can't! Please believe me, NOT ONE DECENT BLACK AMERICAN LIKES TO HEAR VULGAR GANGSTER RAP LYRICS!"

The double standard still stands.

Any Black comic on the strip in Vegas could have gotten away with making the EXACT same remarks as Imus WITHOUT reprecussion, and you know it.

I honestly found it surprising the press would go after that story by way of newbies Jason Campbell and Vince Young.....kind of an insult to the intelligence of America...I really don't see how they could be qualified yet to weigh in on the issue....other than the color of their skin...

It seems to me it would make more sense to interview people like Steve McNair, Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, or a Doug Williams....if you're truly looking for "the" story.. not simply "a" story

bottom line, tho...I would love to have McNabb on DaBears

I don't believe anyone can help Grossman. He's had time to get the game right & too many games with bad Rex. Rex probably one of the worse QB's I've seen since I've been following the NFL. That goes back some 50 years.

I'm sick of hearing this kind of stuff. Times get hard for a player and they start blaming other things. Forget his race for a moment, look at his last four years as a quarterback. Good quarterbacks in general are hard to find look at some white quarterbacks that had knocks on them (i.e. Kurt Warner, Jeff Garcia, Trent Green, Brad Johnson, Mark Brunell, Tom Brady) at some point and time. All of them were able to overcome this promblem without using race as a factor. Most have had to look over their shoulder their whole career, minus Tom Brady to this point. Kurt Warner's situation is simular to McNabb's now, except Warner won a superbowl and was the MVP. Injuries took him away and when he came back he wasn't quite the same, but no screaming of racial injustice was brought up. Why not? Teams my nature are going to be weary of "franchise quarterback" because of their shelf life, unless you are a hall of famer(i.e. Peyton Manning or Tom Brady). Factor in McNabb hasn't been able to stay healthy the last few years. The Eagles are 0-2 and McNabb looked like crap. Rex like. This might be a window in why Donovan hasn't won a Superbowl yet, folds under pressure. I like(d) Donovan as a player and as a person until this. I understand racism played a part of football at the quartereback postion at one time or another, but not at this moment in the NFL.

I understand racism played a part of football at the quartereback postion at one time or another, but not at this moment in the NFL.

Posted by: Rick | September 23, 2007 09:08 AM

Are you kidding me?

I almost gave you a long, drawn out response but I'll let you continue to live in that pollyana existence. Is it a little better these days, maybe. But, until I stop hearing stuff like he's athleticly gifted and that's why we drafted him, then I'll buy your argument. Until guys like Tommie Frazier, Kordell Stewart and Michael Vick are looked at as field generals and not just great athletes I'll buy your argument. Please stop insulting my intelligence with this racism doesn't exist angle.

"Until guys like Tommie Frazier, Kordell Stewart and Michael Vick are looked at as field generals and not just great athletes I'll buy your argument."

OK, can we limit the discussion to "good" QBs?

So Tommie Frazier, Kordell Stewart, and Michael Vick are good field generals? Frazier and Stewart c'mon, they shouldn't be in this conversation. What has Vick done at the NFL level that would make you say wow that took a leader. I can't count how many times I've seen him and said wow that was a great athletic play. By the way I loved Frazier (same last name except different) at Nebraska, but that was college.

The funny thing about race conversations is that some people can step in and step right back out and go on about their business until they log into ST sports blog again. Some of us have to live with it day in and day out. I just think it's funny that there are people who don't see the spector of racism, EVER. Just because the boy cries wolf every once in a while doesn't mean that the wolf doesn't exist. After the guy righted himself with an awesome game today I just hope that the furor dies. And since NONE of us are a black QB in the NFL why do we find it necessary to be angry because one of them talked about what it was like for them. We know so much about everyone else's life that we ACT like we know exactly what it's like to live THEIR life. Obviously we don't. But that's just my opinion.

The only field that Vick is or has been a general on is the dog fighting field.

Tommy Frazier, Kordell...r u kidding me??? Is this where the countering white QB argument brings in Eric Crouch??? or Dilfer?

GMs will take the guy who they think is better. Do you think the Raiders would have drafted Russell if they didn't think he was smart enough to learn an NFL offense? I don't understand the arguments on this board when more and more black QBs have been getting picked in the top 10 over the past 10 years. For every Akili Smith, there is a Cade McNown. Black or white...if they suck, they're gone. If they were no good to begin with, they won't play in the NFL.

DARE I SAY POST OF THE WEEK AWARD NOMINEE???

The funny thing about race conversations is that some people can step in and step right back out and go on about their business until they log into ST sports blog again. Some of us have to live with it day in and day out. I just think it's funny that there are people who don't see the spector of racism, EVER. Just because the boy cries wolf every once in a while doesn't mean that the wolf doesn't exist. After the guy righted himself with an awesome game today I just hope that the furor dies. And since NONE of us are a black QB in the NFL why do we find it necessary to be angry because one of them talked about what it was like for them. We know so much about everyone else's life that we ACT like we know exactly what it's like to live THEIR life. Obviously we don't. But that's just my opinion.

Posted by: William R. Donald | September 23, 2007 04:43 PM

I guess I should limit my conversations to only those about 6'6 Americans of Irish German descent who moved around alot as a kid and played hoops and a little qb back in the day.

That logic makes sense.

My point had nothing to do with the names I mentioned. I'm only talking about the commentary on draft day. Hell, in the same draft that produced McNabb and Culpepper, McNown was called the most NFL ready Qb. In this last draft, Russell was first overall, but a few clowns were still lamenting Brady Quinn as a better overall field general. Racism still exists in the NFL. It may be less prevalant, but it's still there.

"The thing that Tommie brings to the game more than anybody else is a presence and a confidence and a competitiveness and an intelligence that very few players have."

-- NU coach Tom Osborne

"One of only two quarterbacks this century to lead his team to back-to-back championships, Frazier set Nebraska quarterback passing and rushing touchdown records while amassing a school record 5,476 yards of total offense. Frazier capped his 33-3 record as a starter by earning All-America and UPI Player of the Year honors in 1995 while finishing second in the Heisman Trophy balloting."

--Sport Magazine

But the question out of college still surrounded the position that he would play in the pros.

Who was the most dynamic college QB in the mid to late 80’s? The answer could vary but one undeniable name that comes to mind is the former West Virginia QB Major Harris. Harris was “Slash” before slash was cool. He could run, he could throw, he could do it all. He should’ve been a great pro QB but he listened to people who convinced him to leave school after his Junior season.

After setting almost every Mountaineer record, he was not drafted until the 12th round by the Oakland Raiders in the 1990 draft. After not making the team, he played in Canada and the Arena Football League but he never blossomed into the professional talent he should have become. Harris was never given the chance to show his worth and he suffered by being an unfortunate byproduct of a league that rarely gave black QB’s a chance. With Major Harris, we can only wonder what could’ve been.

--The Black Athlete Sports Network

He never received a chance.....

And, why is Randall Cunningham not in the Hall of Fame. Cunningham's stats match or beat the Hall of Fame locks of his era. Dan Marino and John Elway played in offenses geared to their passing ability and had almost double Randall's passing attempts, so they racked up bigger numbers. Marino and Elway are ranked 1 and 2 in most all-time passing stats, but Randall is in the top 25, and there are 25 QBs in the hall—you do the math. The all-important yards-per-pass attempt stat is basically equal: Marino 7.3 per attempt, Elway 7.1, Cunningham 7.0. And Cunningham has a better TD-to-INT ratio than Elway, 1.54 to 1.33.

Randall compares more favorably to Troy Aikman, another Canton lock, who played exactly one less game in his career. Aikman, one of history's most accurate passers, beats out Randall in completion percentage (61.5 to 56.6) and has about 3,000 more yards in 500 more attempts. But Randall threw for 42 more TDs and seven fewer INTs, and the yards-per-attempt for both is 7.0. Toss in the rushing (4,928 yards and 35 TDs for Cunningham, 1,016 and nine for Aikman), and Cunningham moves past the Golden Boy.

--Slate Magazine

No, racism no longer exists in the NFL in relation to the perception of the QB position. Just ask, Tommie, Major and Randall.

I procured the info in this post from other sources. I can't take credit for it, but I just needed research to back up my point.

Shucks..i mustve cancelled my subscription to Slate Magazine...before that issue came out.

Although..i agree..Cunningham was awesome...i remember he had a 99 yard punt once.

I agree Cunningham belongs in Hall...

The fact that Ernest includes Tommy Frazier and Major Harris in the argument as being shunned out of the NFL...well...it's a little hard to buy the whole picture at that point.

LOTS of college QBs don't get a chance for a variety of reasons:
- size, arm strength, college offense, smarts, etc...plenty of white QB examples as well (can u say Gino Torretta...he won the f'n Heisman; Erick Crouch, etc)

If you limit yourself to knowing EXACTLY what you've gone through in life at least you'd be right about something. Listen stretch: tell us what you think about something and stop dumping on everyone else's opinion. For example: Tell us what's it's like to be a true American soldiers who spent time over-seas fighting or expecting to fight for America's freedom? You can't, so please shut up about what it's like to be anything. Because if it wasn't for people like me who DID you probably wouldn't have been able to enjoy the freedom that you enjoy and take for granted. People like me make it possible for you to be YOU, so start respecting that if you will. Tell us a joke and stop being A JOKE.

I'm a little tired of this race card CONSTANTLY being thrown around and frankly by no other black QB in the NFL (and there are many now)but Mc Nabb.

And I say this as a McNabb fan, I think very highly of him. He should understand that part of it all is that he plays in Philadelphia, with perhaps the worst "what have you done for me lately" fan mentality any sports city. He also has to understand that unlike some fan hero lunchbucket player, as a highly paid superstar, he'll be scrutinized more than anyone else in Philly.

what Limbaugh said way back was idiotic and anyone who knows the NFL could realize it at the time. (or any fantasy football player who'd watch McNabb constantly have 300 yard games with complete scrubs at WR, people who wouldn't excel in a street playlot game)

Donovan should shut up, take the bad with the good, and realize that life is pretty good for him and his Mom and Chunky soup.

No one gives a rat's behind about the color of the QB these days.. we've come a long ways since Doug Williams won the SuperBowl. And if he still feels he's being constantly assaulted, have him call Rex, who last time I checked is as white as they come.

Pink, almost.

If you limit yourself to knowing EXACTLY what you've gone through in life at least you'd be right about something.

THIS SENTANCE MAKES 0 SENSE HOMESKILLET

THANKS THOUGH FOR DEFENDING FREEDOM. NO JOKE. TAKES COURAGE. I COULDNT TALK ABOUT DOING IT CAUSE I HAVENT DONE IT. I JUST KNOW WE NEED IT. AND I KNOW ABOUT THE HISTORY OF IT. I GUESS THOUGH IN YOUR WORLD A HISTORY TEACHER COULDNT TEACH ABOUT HISTORY UNLESS HE LIVED THERE..OR A SPORTS WRITER COULDNT TALK ABOUT SPORTS UNLESS HE PLAYED RIGHT?

COME WID IT WRD. YOU GOT BETTER THAN THAT DONT YOU?

And limiting your KNOWLEDGE about something and someone and KNOWING what's the real deal is exactly what you should do. Your opinions are usually based on what you should know not what someone else has gone through. You don't know what it's like to be black or woman or anything other than what YOU are. Limit your opinions about something that you're not because you look like an ass when you try to be all-knowing. Remember when you said silly white b***ches did it occur to you how many of these women that read were offended? Guys like you don't care what you say or what you do because you only care about your own points and opinions. I can tell that with moving around like you did it really did a job on you. You're one of those guys who THINK that everyone likes you when in reality they laugh at your jokes to your face and laugh AT you behind your back. The thing about most idiots and jerks is that they don't know that they are an idiot or a jerk. But let me come WID it real and tell you you are an idiot AND a jerk.

We will just have to agree to.....when in Rome!

To Mark and Jeff
Talk about delusional hypocrites!! And look who in the HELL is talking!! You all[white males]INVENTED double standards especially when it comes to blogs and voicing your opinions and last time I checked the media was 90percent white male so who was it that DOESN'T have freedom of speech. Payback sure does SUCK don't it and it sure does suck when the bully on the playground finally has the 95 pound weakling whoop his butt. People like you 2 INVENTED hateful comments and now it's coming back on you as for your holier than about 'decent,old-fashioned,family, entertainment you mean like all the Playboy and pay-per-veiw channels with half-naked white females or Victoria's Secret speacials and commercials each one sleazier than the last. Or all the awards shows with white female celebrities and their boobs hanging out of their dresses or maybe you meant that fine upstanding show HBO's "The Sopranos" or countless tv put out by WHITE executives that is the EPITOME osf sleazy and disgusting. So come off it with your 'pity the poor white guy' uless you ACTUALLY do want to walk a mile in ablack person's shoes for sa year then lest see if your b.s. holds up. I'm no psychic but I'm guessing no and you just PROVED that racism still exists in every facet of American life especially sports!

Lavern...but what about R Kelly?

Lavern

You want "sleazy and disgusting"? Look at the arrest record over the past 24 months for NFL players...should be enlightening to you!
You are one angry gal...take a breath. Turn on BET

I'm no 'angrier' than certain other people posting unless you believe THEIRS is more justified which is probably always the case furthermore have YOU seen the arrest record of some Hollywood celebrities that people like you glorify?!! And I'm not jsut talking about the foolish bimbos and thier DUIs I'm talking very heinous stuff and since the media doesn't mention it some of those NFL players with arrest records are white also like Christian Peter,Barrett Robbins, and Jeff Reardon to name a few. But I don't hear anyone calling them 'thugs' so who is perpetuating a double standard exactly?!! R.Kelly what about him and what the HELL does that have to do with the price of hot chocolate in Alaska but since you went there I could bring up the WHITE males both celebrity and non who have been accussed of being pedophiles so if you want a debate about sleaze bring it on.

Lavern...you are the answer the age-old question...oh never mind. And I thought Mary Mitchell was bitter!

WOW...can't we all just get along?