The White Sox extended Ozzie Guillen's contract through 2012, and I have conflicting emotions.
Yes, he guided the city's only World Series champion for nearly 90 years, but that speaks more to Chicago's woeful baseball reputation than anything else.
Some people say the Sox were lucky in '05, I think that's ridiculous. They were dominant.
But now they're a laughingstock, and that includes their manager, who's only making headlines now with temper tantrums. Apparently, that didn't dissuade Jerry Reinsdorf.
It will be interesting to see what effect this will have on Ozzie, and with his dynamic with his players. Will Ozzie be calmer with long-term security? Will he be more patient with his players?
I don't know him that well, but I don't think he'll change a lick. Apparently, that's the way his boss wants it.
I think it's just great. Now the Sox will suck at least until 2012. At least in this time of despare with the Cubs, I still have something to smile about.
Yeah...let's give his buddy Uribe a 5 year extension too.
With one swoop of the pen, Reinsdorf has doomed the White Sox to obscurity for another 5 years. Ozzie must have come cheap.
What a joke.......Way to lock up a losing future Jerry. This guy has lost this team, a team that has rings. That's pretty hard to do. His immature shenanigans have put the Sox in a bad light for way too long but for SOME reason Reinsdorf is blinded to this fact. He had a great year in '05 despite many foolish managerial moves and has been exposed for the weak coaching talent he is. The Sox have now made their bed and unfortunately will have to lie in for quite some time seeing the dearth of talent in their minor leagues. Great move.
Eat it mariotti!
Ozzie's an IDIOT, but so is Reinsdorf.........
Hi Roman,
Like many of my fellow lunatic sox fans, I follow Ozzie's press conferences, interviews and newspaper quotes. (Not that I always understand him.) In this dismal season I have seen/heard Ozzie publicly lose it a handful of times. That's out of almost 90 opportunities to do so, if you count the team's losses. Yes he can be a jackass but I'll take my chances on him being the right leader for this team. If not, he'll be on a fishing boat in Caracas next fall, towing Kenny Williams in an inner tube.
Ozzie still is getting the benefit of a doubt from me for winning the Series two year ago. Plus, the schedule at the start of the season with all the road games, bullpen and 5th starter he was given by Kenny Williams, poor/below average years by every starter except Javier Vazquez, and lack of players which could have contributed from Class AAA Charlotte are more reasons for a pass for another year.
But, his 'childish' antics, his favoritism for Latino players, the way he gives up on the team, alienation of players in bad times, burying players in the media with negative cooments, and his 'Archie Bunker' rants are reasons to keep an eye on him.
Ozzie is 'loose cannon' and his act is getting old; especially if he starts to let the fans have it with his rants. A Lot of people remember him saying, We Don't Owe them Anything', when he was asked if the players should consider the fans while they were on strike the last time there was baseball work stoppage.
The chances of Ozzie being White Sox manager through 2012 are very, very slim. My prediction is he'll be kicked somewhere in the organization as a special assistant after the 2008 season. And, replaced by Razor Shines. Ozzie may even quit next year and leave Joey Cora as interim manager.
Who knows with Ozzie? Ozzie really has some 'Sybil-like' qualities in him.
Mike - good point. In addition to Uribe's extension, I assume there will be big contracts for Vasquez, Andy Martinez, Pablo Ozuna and all of Ozzie's homies.
This team has become a complete joke...well done Kenny!
I loved ESPN's assessment..."obviously it will be at least a few years before this team can contend again" - for once they got something right.
From what I hear, Ozzie needed that extension....I hope he got the length of extension he wanted...or more importantly.....needed.....I'm sure he's working diligently... right this second...figuring out how to put his extension to use....I hope the directions are in spanish....and TMZ is filming
ummm, Go Sox?
The clowns in Sox management must think negative publicity is better than no publicity at all, especially since they share the same city with the ever-popular Cubs. Guillen would be better suited to the wonderful world of pro wrestling, especially since he's already done a stint with TNA a couple years ago. He could join the likes of Pacman Jones, who's busying himself there during his suspension, and actually is one-half of the tag team champions. I heard they're looking for a manager....paging Ozzie Guillen.
Sox continue to reward poor performances. A sign of a club going nowhere. Extended Buerhle & Dye neither has played that well. Now the blizzard! Next they'll extend Walker & Cooper plus sign Cintron ,Uribe ,Podsednik for more years!GM Williams famous for finger pointing at others for sox problems just has to look at guy in mirror when he's shaving tomorrow for sox problem.
I am a huge sox fan and....who cares!!!
It's football season, GO BEARS!!!
They should get rid of some of those injured players though.
Why now? ozzie still had a year on his contract w/ an option year. So why not wait till the 2008 season starts. If its anything like this year I think Ozzie would want out and head back to his homeland. I guess only the players have tuned him out, something that Mr.Reinsdorf didn't pick up on. Living in Arizona I usually can't wait for spring training. Now its way on the back burner for me. I don't think I can take the guy for another year, let alone till 2012!
I dont know why Ozzie was given a long contract extention.I could possibly understand giving him,and Williams next year to prove themselves.Remmember the Sox blew a big lead in 2005 and barely made it.They were under achivers in 2006.Shouldnt a manager
be held accountable for that?This year is Williams fault.He tryed to get by with cheap broken down players like Erstadt,Posednic,Crede.He should have known about Joes condition.
Thome is a great guy,but he cant be counted on full time.The same for Dye.They gave him a big contract.Why cant they ever sign a young top shelf freeagent like Soriano,D Lee,or Ramerez?The same way with tha pitchers they signed or traded for that other teams gave up on.Only Jenks,and Garland have really turned into something.The Sox have a high draft pick coming.Do we trust Williams to pick a blue chipper,and Rheinsdorf to sign him if they luck out.Williams has ruined the farm system.The Sox are a mess.Will Rheinsdorf have the guts to get rid of those two if the team doesmt at least plat 500 ball next year?.Rheinsdorf fired all the managers who won a division titles in short order when they didnt repeat.He Loves Ozzie?Why
Frank
I dont know why Ozzie was given a long contract extention.I could possibly understand giving him,and Williams next year to prove themselves.Remmember the Sox blew a big lead in 2005 and barely made it.They were under achivers in 2006.Shouldnt a manager
be held accountable for that?This year is Williams fault.He tryed to get by with cheap broken down players like Erstadt,Posednic,Crede.He should have known about Joes condition.
Thome is a great guy,but he cant be counted on full time.The same for Dye.They gave him a big contract.Why cant they ever sign a young top shelf freeagent like Soriano,D Lee,or Ramerez?The same way with tha pitchers they signed or traded for that other teams gave up on.Only Jenks,and Garland have really turned into something.The Sox have a high draft pick coming.Do we trust Williams to pick a blue chipper,and Rheinsdorf to sign him if they luck out.Williams has ruined the farm system.The Sox are a mess.Will Rheinsdorf have the guts to get rid of those two if the team doesmt at least plat 500 ball next year?.Rheinsdorf fired all the managers who won a division titles in short order when they didnt repeat.He Loves Ozzie?Why
Frank
Roman - I have a serious problem with the "saying the '05 Sox were lucky is ridiculous" argument. They were lucky. For a few reasons, actually.
1) First of all, in general, any team that wins the World Series needs to get lucky. Players need to get hot at the right time (the playoffs), and honestly, it's very possible for any team to make the playoffs to catch fire and win the World Series.
2) That having been said, I have no doubt that the '05 Sox were the best team in baseball that year. During the regular season, they were "dominant", as you say. But look at the inherent quality of the team. Think of the players that were on it. It really was just a decent team...nothing awesome. Cliff Politte and Neal Cotts from 2005 might have been the best 1-2 punch setup corps in this era. But were/are Cliff Politte and Neal Cotts good pitchers in their careers? No. They aren't even above average. What about Jose Contreras and Jon Garland having breakout years? Brandon McCarthy down the stretch pitching like an ace? And let me stress, in the regular season, this team's #3 hitter was Carl Everett. Is that the mark of a great team? No, no it is not. The fact of the matter is, the '05 White Sox had a pitching staff on which everyone, with talent ranging from below-average to good, decided at once to have a great year. Dominant? Yes. Extraordinarily lucky and coincidental? Very yes.
3) The '05 White Sox were extraordinarily healthy. No starting pitcher ever missed a start (I actually attribute this to Ozzie's excellence in pitcher management, he almost never abused his pitchers by making them throw 120+), and no key position players missed extended time. And of course, the one major injury that occurred to the team, Dustin Hermanson, was repaired by a miracle AA closer named Bobby. The timing was absolutely perfect on everything.
Unfortunately for Sox fans who disagree w/Mr. Reinsdorf, Mr. Guillen is the right person for this job. My first of several questions would be "who is the right manager," second, when are you, the Sox fan, is going to "show me the money," meaning, unless you plan on putting up millions of dollars to run a team, outside of your paid tix of going to watch a game; remember, nothing is free and business owne,r hope to make a profit other than breaking even or making an "athlete" rich. Third, as a fan in general, whose lives has these people saved other than maybe you don't become a couch potato, but nevertheless get high cholesterol from the junk food from sitting on the couch watching an extremely boring game??
I heard a moronic statement tonite from the Indians game announcer (and that's exactly what he is...not a celebrity); he says "I find it ironic that Ozzie was given an extension. Eric Wedge has not made it to the World Series but he also has never ended the season in last place." Well, did it ever occur to this Indians announcer that the season is not over till Sept 30, that his Indians may go on a losing streak and become a wild card (after all, baseball is streaky), and if you don't win the World Series, do you really think anyone gives a damn if you were in first or last place? If you don't win the World Series, you're a LOSER!
Sign me....A REALIST
Most people who prefer a guy that would go quietly into the night. I prefer a guy that goes away kicking and screaming. People like guys that "act" perfect. I like a guy with a perfect heart. Ozzie wants and expects the best and displays it. Dusty was a nice guy and he is gone. All of those jokers that sucked everyday are still getting their checks including that cheap GM that went out and spent 300 million AFTER he left. Dusty didn't have the moxie to tell the players and media that they were terrible and that he could not manage trash. And now Lou is a Guru who knows all about baseball....pah-lease! Ozzie told Kornerko and Thome - you guys SUCK! And he did right because they do! You folks who get all over Uribe didn't watch him hit the 2 home runs last night that old Buzz couldn't. Now Paulie and Thome, inc. want to be coddled and stroked for this mess of a season - but they got a REAL GM and Manager who said collectively "absolutely not"! NO - you LEAVE Chicago if you don't like it! You take those under 250 averages and ice cold bats with you! We are not the Northside - when we are bad we don't make excuses and blame goats - we blame the Underacheivers! And we pay the guys who are doing what's asked of them! Ozzie has done all he could with garbage play! Ozzie took it and took it and took it all season and then tore them a new one! And rightfully so! Kenny is smart! He KNOWS who fault all of this is. This signing is a high-five to Ozzie! And I second the motion!
Bubbas mom, He's not going anywhere. He just signed a 5 year deal. Reinsdorf is loyal to a fault. They kept the guy that they say ruined their farm system for 25 years! This organization (Reinsdorf, Williams and Guillen) are arrogant egomaniacs. They deserve each other but Sox fans don't deserve them. They took a team that should have won multiple championships, like the "85 Bears should have. But just like the Bears, their egos have gotten in the way. They will be irrevalent until Guillen and Williams leave.
Roman, why don't you ask the important questions with this extension? Are the Sox able to attract better talent with Ozzie at the helm? If you talk to the players about Ozzie around the league I think the answer is a resounding yes.
Is it a risk to extend a guy 5 years when he's asked to be fired repeatedly this year? No. The odds are overwhelming that if the Sox don't rebound in 2008 Ozzie will resign before the Sox even consider firing him. All this extension really means is what Ozzie's going to be paid each year. There's no question he's cheaper now than he would be if 2008 is a rebound season.
Is Ozzie the right guy for the job? Yes. There aren't a lot of X's & O's in MLB. The talent to motivate players is the single most important aspect of a big league manager's job. What Jay and other writers have never understood is that Ozzie's personality has always been like a magnet to MLB players. He's got a nice mix of strength, discipline, candor, and fun. It's why the players in Florida took to him as an assistant coach and why the players did and still do here in Chicago.
Finally, if you really believe that the Sox were a dominant team in 2005 then you have to accept that the biggest difference now is the bullpen. You can't deny the Sox got lucky with Cotts & Politte that year. You also can't deny that it was foolish not to reward Gordon and Vizcaino with new contracts for their contributions. When you are on top you can't let top talent leave unless you have a plan to replace it. Trying to get lucky with the likes of Thorton, Sisco, MacDougal, & Aardsma is not a plan. Kenny deserves a chance to rebound this team, but the people most responsible for not finding talent so he could replenish the bullpen from within were deserving of their firings. If the Twins can do it so can the Sox.
I really do not understand the motives behind fans or the media for that matter being upset with Ozzie for throwing temper tantrums or being upset with his team. The fact is that the White Sox stunk during the season which in many regards leads not to the management style of Ozzie but rather the quality of play of its players. I would assume that a lot of fans feel just as Ozzie has felt. I know I have.
Couple Points:
The Team Overestimated its Relief Pitching - From the standpoint of what they thought they had and what they got, Cisco, MacDougal, Aardsma as well as many others failed to live up to their expectations and could not get the ball over the plate. There have been probably 10-15 games at least that the team was not able to hold on and would get blown out after either having a lead or being tied. The teams relief pitching at one point of the season, and it might still be now, was the worst in the majors. I am reading a book right now and they quoted Cy Young whose main points of advice to pitchers was, that if you cannot throw strikes you do not belong in the major leagues. On the other hand, Bobby Jenks, who has been thrown under the bus more often than not by Ozzie, has completely thrived by Ozzie's managing style.
Hitting - The core players on the team did not produce offensively like in past seasons.
Injuries - The team battled major injuries to Thome, Crede, Pods, Erstad which accounted for almost half of the starting lineup.
Intangibles - I always felt that the Sox went how Pods has gone and when he has been out of the lineup, hurt, etc. the team has struggled to score runs.
I do not think that Ozzie's managing style is to blame. For one, they have the same core of players that helped this team win a championship back in 2005. Secondly, if the players were not happy playing for Ozzie or liking Chicago I doubt that you would have had the signings of Buerhle and Dye or even seeing how Iguchi was upset to leave.
I would actually blame Williams more than Ozzie for the issues with the team. I think that Kenny Williams' philosophy, esp. for pitching has always been to try to find power arms. In some cases this has worked (See Jenks) but sometimes that success can make you believe that you can fix any power pitcher who can't get the ball over the plate.
Does anyone realize Williams traded away the first NL rookie in HISTORY with 20 and 20 (HRs and SBs) for a career .500 pitcher in Vasquez. I didn't think Williams could out-do himself with the Todd Ritchie trade but he managed to in trading away Chris Young, a CF who could be the best in the majors in 2 years or less.
Not only that but he relied on 2 CFs to take Rowand's place who are brutal.
Well done Kenny...
Everybody is worried about no Thomas Jones This is what The Bears did Last year with him the 1st 3 Road games against Packers, Vikings, an Cards. Averaged 64yds and 2.6 yds per rush when these teams averaged giving up 74 yds and 3.4 yds per rush their first 3 games home games. The Bears Rushed for 80 yds and 3.0 yds per rush vs Chargers. If you still miss Jones you don't Know to much about Football. Just keep reading and having faith in the Chgo Sports writers, because they broke more people than the Chgo vice cops on Clark St.
I can't stand the hypocrisy some of you are showing.
Does anyone realize that Kenny Williams and Ozzie Gullien helped build the only championship team 99 percent of Sox fans have ever seen? That This will be Ozzie's first losing season? That the Sox play in arguably the toughest division in baseball?
Apparently not, and you guys will twist the record to justify getting rid of them.
2005 was luck, because they had incredible health. It was a fluke. 2007, they lose five postion starters for significant periods of time to injury. FIRE EM!
2005 was luck, because people had career years. It was a fluke 2007, nearly half the roster suffers through career-worst stretches AT THE SAME TIME, including McDougal, who was once a respected closer. Response? FIRE EM!
2005 was luck, so it had little to do with Kenny's abilities as GM. Never mind the moves he made to get Freddy Garcia (whom the sox traded a top prospect, Jeremy Reed to get). Never mind the move he made to get Contreras (whom he traded All-Star Estaban Loaiza to get). Never mind his boldness to get Scotty Pods (whom most would say was the catalyst of the offense that year, in exchange for a player they would not have been able to resign). Never mind his signing of A.J. (whom was deemed crazy). And never mind the chance he took on keeping Crede and Garland (whom people wanted out of town the year before). Never mind taking his pick-ups Dustin Hermanson, El Duque (too old), and Bobby Jenks (some fat drunk with an arm problem)> These risked paid off, but it was all a fluke.
2006: Rowand has a great year (and BTW, they would have likely lost Konerko had they not made the Thome deal -- he said as much, and people like to forget that). Chris Young is a stud. Ross Gload (who?) is a stud. The bullpen was horrible, and he never gets that bullpen right. And Freddy Garcia . . . Rowand had a great year. FIRE EM'.
2005: Ozzie swears too much, but at least their winning. 2007: Ozzie can't coach and he swears too much FIRE EM'!
I'm glad they resigned him. He deserved it based on his body of work. Instead of skewering the team for this one season of wrong, lets hope for good health and good fortune next year.
And if that means a "fluke," more power to you.
It was absolutely the right thing. No matter what, in the overall scope of Chicago sports, that team needs a personality. The beloved Cubs get so much spin win or lose that the Sox tend to be lost in the shuffle. I think he has done a great job since he's been here and we can't keep starting over year after year. We just keep forgetting that this team has won a lot of game the last 2 years. This year aside, we are a few good bullpen moves away from contending next year. Look at the Tigers and Indians. Do any of us see a dominant team in this division? If the right thing happens and they bring on a Torrie Hunter and a great setup man for Jenks, we are back in the postseason next year. We have to be more patient and require some consistency in our city. Real organizations have a plan over time. If we keep blowing it up and starting over again, we'll never win again. I salute Ken for this move.
You people make me sick. The man has one bad year and you're ready to send him to the lions. Do you really think the next manager will bring a winner to the South Side anymore than Ozzie could? The man has three winning seasons (and a championship) compared to one bad one, give the man a break. Ingrates
the problem is, ozzie favors latin players too heavily. and he has a lot of bad latin players on his team and in the upper levels of his organization. so, until ozzie becomes non-prejudice and stops favoring his 'home-countrymen' and the rest of the bad latins, the sox will continue to be bad.
I'm a big Sox fan, and I'm happy with Ozzie's extension. Ozzie's a lifelong part of the organization and a WS champion manager. We have a guy that I want to root for, so I'm happy he's here.
Does anybody even bother paying attention to Mariotti anymore?
IDC...twist this
- Sox in the best division? maybe so...then how do they get their brains beat in by the NL central, the worst in baseball?
- you mentioned some good trades by Williams (Garcia, AJ, Contreras for a year and a half anyway). What about Chris Young for Vasquez? What about giving Iguchi away to the Phils? I'll pass on the infamous Rodd Ritchie trade
- Ozzie is Ditka on steroids - a 1 year wonder. The player quit on him which is the worst indictment of all on a manager.
This move makes absolutely no sense for management (Reinsdorf, Williams). As in "no sense = lost their minds".
Guillen might be to baseball the way a wandering Larry Brown is to basketball. He goes in someplace, and there is a years) dramatic uptick in results (wins, etc.) in the first 2 or 3 years, and then his message quickly gets old, and either the players begin tuning their appointed leader out, and/or there is nothing in the nature of coach or manager himself that could lead to a refreshing of his message to enable him to continue as an effective leader. The theory here is that Ozzie's message has gone stale, and that is why so have the Sox. I hope that isn't true, but I fear that's the case.
Still, if someone offered me even 10 miserable seasons as the price of just one championship like they had in 2005, as a trade-off, I would take it. But, mostly, I hope we don't have to wait for new ownership, if not a new general manager, to realize Ozzie won't be able to do it here anymore. I loved the guy in 2005 and 2006, and I was hoping the manager himself would be big enough to admit he can't motivate THIS team anymore. Was it Yogi Berra that said "it's deja vue all over again"?
Tom Blumenthal
Philadelphia, PA
The manager needs to have an idea what to do in crucial times.Ozzie continues to look up in the stands for advice or something each game. Now I know what he was looking for--- Kenny Williams.
I like the new contract. I think Ozzie is a little out there, but he brings a passion for the game. Do you really want a vanilla guy to be in charge? (I am thinking LaRussa and Duncan. They were terrible for the Sox, if anyone remembers. Remember St. Louis has no problem with losing LaRussa.) I also believe he has an impact on bringing both fans out to the park. I believe that other players like him and are willing to come to the Sox when they have the chance. Dye, Thome, Buehrle, Konerko, Vasquez, Contreras, and maybe Crede have all stayed, like it in Chicago and reading other papers in other cities there is respect for the White Sox. I expect chances and a better season next year.
LDC...stop your babbling
- Williams went into this year without a proven and healthy CF, LF and SS, and a 3B with a history of back problems
- He gambled on a bullpen of guys who threw hard...I guess control and a history of results didn't matter
- PLEASE stop with the reference to injuries. The Sox were REAL bad before Crede went down. Did you really think Pods and Erstad would or should be starters? Again, Williams asleep at the switch.
Ultimately I can't tell from your note what is cynicism and what points you're trying to make. Bottom line, the GM and Manager fell flat on their face this year.
Did u see what the Minnesota GM (who has a much better record than Williams) got for a number of playoff appearances with a watered down payroll? FIRED
Gene-
Terry Ryan (Twins GM) resigned. He wasn't fired.
Oooh oooh! I pay attention to Mariotti! (a little bit, if only to publish his idiocy to the world)
LDC - you made some excellent points.
Jonathon P (guy who said LDC is wrong) - you did not....and here's why!
The Sox "got their brains beat in the NL Central" over a small sample size of games. What did they play....18 games? That isn't enough to determine how the Sox would stand in that division.
Chris Young for Vasquez - So far, this hasn't proven to be bad at all (might change in the future). Vasquez was very underrated, and Chris Young can't even OBP .300 yet. Young's EqA is .255, making him a below average hitter in terms of production for 2007.
Giving Iguchi to the Phils - They might just resign him. They had just given up a good prospect for Richar and wanted to try Richar out. If you want to blame Williams for that, you should blame him for trading for Richar.
Rodd Richie sounds like a 1940's jazz artist.
"Ozzie is Ditka on steroids - a 1 year wonder. The player quit on him which is the worst indictment of all on a manager"
The predicted preseason record for the Sox was 72-90, according to PECOTA. The players didn't quit on Ozzie. They just weren't destined to win a lot of games, because they aren't good enough.
Posted by: Keith Lifetime Southsider | September 12, 2007 06:38 AM
Re-read Keith's Post people. Good Solid Post!
All together now, scream South Side!!
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Posted by: Ozzie fan | September 12, 2007 10:53 AM
Re-read Ozzie fan post
Thank you Mr. Ozzie fan showing clarity and insight. Yeah Roman, how come you do not ask important questions such as will free agents want to play for Ozzie Guillen? I believe they will!
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I can't stand the hypocrisy some of you are showing.
Definitely re-read ldc post!! - I can't add anything to these previous three posts.
Posted by: ldc | September 13, 2007 08:54 AM
--Thank your for reminding the FANS this, because that is what a lot of posters are doing. Just imagine how terrible people would talk about the Chicago White Sox organization if they had NOT WON the World Seriers in 2005?
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-- Sheesh, some of you guys/gals are brutal with your statements as George Bush when he was the Executioner as governor of Texas, and presently a Mass Serial Killer of Americans soldiers in an unjust war.
-- Hey PEOPLE IT IS A GAME!! ...We lost this year, that is all! Kenny, Ozzie and the entire Chicago White Sox team will be kicking butt in 2008!
Okay, now dem Bears, screwing up already.
Lovie - corporate stole his "Soul Man" - Smith + Rex "How Gross can you get" man + Ced "NOT the Entertainer" Benson = no NFC division title, no wildcard playoff spot, and what are you guys going to bemoan then? oh, we still got the Chicago Bulls later on in the year.
Chat with you guys/gals soon...see ya!
Lay off ldc, the man has a point. As I stated earlier, Ozzie and Kenny and the White Sox players had a bad year. At least Kenny is making efforts to keep the team competitive, something he has done since he got the job, even if it did backfire sometime. As far as Ozzie losing the team, please tell me why Mark Buerhle stayed for less money, and why JD is returning? Fans and media maybe sick of Ozzie, but apparently the people who matter aren't. Maybe we should bring back Ron Schuler and Jerry Manuel.
This is awesome. Now Ozzie can ignore all his critics and get on with baseball. I look forward to an improvement next year, so long as Guillen can thicken his skin a bit and the Sox get some baseball players.
LDC - skip those haters. You laid it out for them and they can't take it. They can read fine, just have a problem refuting the facts. Won a ship TWO years ago and fans are ready to fire the whole lot of them.
How long did Mike Ditka hang around after 85? Answer - 1999
How long did Krause after 98? Answer - 2003 "retired"
Angelo has been with the Bears since 2001 - and he has nothing!
Hendry/Cubs since 95-promoted in 02 - and he has nothing!
Do we need to talk about the blackhawks?
Now refute those facts! Probably think the Cubs are the model franchise.
Twist what Jonathan P?
I mentioned the "failed' deals of Williams.
My point is, people dont' want to give him any credit for the bold moves he made to build the 2005 team, and just about all of them were bold.
They worked. This time around, some deals blew up in his face.
But I would much rather have a GM who is willing to take risks to improve the team rather than sit back and do nothing.
I'd also rather have a coach who is passionate about his team and franchise than some stiff who fills out a lineup card and kisses Marriotti's behind.
That's what the Cubs did for years. This year, they make bold moves, get a passionate coach and. .. what do you know. A winner (sort of). Hendry is a genius.
People want to knock Williams for the moves he makes, yet give he and Ozzie no credit for the previous three years, one in which the team won the whole thing.
AND GENE. . .
You make my point.
-- Williams went into 2005 with the SAME SS (the guys who threw the last out in the series), the SAME LF (the catalyst for the offense) and the SAME 3B (The guy who should have been the WS MVP and a great defensive player).
People made the very same arguments about these guys that year, but it worked out. This year, they get HURT, and Kenny is an idiot.
It was a risk. No credit when risks pay off (fluke), fire em when risks don't pan out.
He made bold risks. They failed. But we have seen in the past that similar risks have worked. But no one wants to give anyone credit for that.
And as far as the Twins GM, Ryan, for all his "wins," lacked one thing Kenny has -- bling. A championhip, let alone an appearance in the WS.
Maybe had Ryan taken some risks to get his team players, they would have a title.
Same goes for "Moneyball" Beane, who knocked has Williams. A media darling who has never even gotten to the series.
They had a bad season. A lot had to do with injuries. A lot was because players didn't pan out. But that's what happens in baseball.
But this is not an epidemic. This is an ABBERATION on an otherwise respectable tenure for both individuals.
They have done a good job, and have more than earned the right to continue.
LDC - skip those haters. You laid it out for them and they can't take it. They can read fine, just have a problem refuting the facts. Won a ship TWO years ago and fans are ready to fire the whole lot of them.
Posted by: Keith Lifetime Southsider | September 14, 2007 07:44 AM
The above statement need to be repeated for the loser mentality that has gloomed over Chicago for so long the fans can't think straight!
HEY LOSERS- remember a Championship is a Championship, ESPECIALLY when a Chicago team WINS ONE every freaking quarter century (and that is putting it mildly)!! I will take it and have fun, now go walk into a wall you knuckle-heads!
Delusional sox fans (keith, ldc...you're at the top)
- Yes, we know, the Sox won a title
- PLEASE stop talking that Pods was the "catylst" - HR's and good pitching were what they USED to have. Pods had a terrific 1H in 2005 and 1 game winning HR in the WS...we know. Tell me again what he's done since?
- Uribe - if you think he's a major league SS, you're nuts. Don't you actually have to care to be in the majors?
- Kenny was asleep at the switch this offseason. How else can you explain his odd picks for relief (Aardsma, Cisco, ???) and the fact that he stayed with fatso (Uribe), a broken down LF and NO cf in place. Other than that, Kenny did a great job. I guess you can win a title and take a few years off. I need to tell my boss that.
oh yeah, Keith....get over it.
I think with a healthy Crede & Hall for much of the year the White Sox would have done much better. Probably as well as Oakland and Atlanta because they both are players that play well in close & late situations. They are prescriptions for a bad bullpen. Crede especially as a way of just the mood of the team.
There is no doubt that it was the right move to extend Ozzie. I vividly recall an interview with Greg Walker where he had the guts to bluntly say on TV that it was Ozzie's vision which led the team to becoming a WS champ. That vision was obvioulsy pitching, defense, and a deemphasis away from the station to station offense the Sox have employed for ages to more small ball. Keep in mind it was Ozzie's vision not Kenny's that led to the rare WS victory. Kenny bought into the pitching but didnt give enough value to the small ball aspect which is why he had the top of the lineup manned by two older players with a history of injuries to account for the speed aspect of the lineup. One of Kenny's fatally flawed moves that led to this season's debacle that and his bullpen plan. BTW I hope you forgive but I cant help but point out that early on in these blogs I predicted that Contreras would turn it around, he just needed some time to get over his divorce. It is a coincidence that his childred asked for a complete game and he delivered. Jose has a fragile constitution emotionally, once he gets back to an emotional bedrock of sorts he will get back to his old self. If Kenny really wants to win a WS next year he should keep both Garland and Jose then after making the playoffs and possibly winning it all again, he can trade Jose and sign Garland long term.
Roman I would like someone at the Sun-Times to follow up on this article if possible:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/09/23/2007-09-
23_no_excuse_for_hgh_use_fedex_receipt_expo.html
I think it's great that the article points out what is legal for HGH use in America (hormone deficiency in kids, near terminal disease for adults) & that it's been banned without exception in MLB (2005).
I thought the part about how Tommy John surgery seemed to be making some pitchers better was a big eye-opener. Many of us fans were surprised by that when it started showing up in MLB.
What I'd like the Sun-Times to follow up on is the harm of HGH usage. This is sure to eventually filter down to HS levels & we need to be able to tell kids what harm it can do them. The idea that you can take HGH with undetectable levels of a steroid is scary yet I've not been able to find a thing on the long term effects of this combination.
I think Ozzie is the type of manager that won't put up with this stuff. I think the thread has overlooked that. He prefers winning with pitching, defense, running, & timely hitting over the winning with the long ball. He prefers pitchers who can mix up speeds over those that can just throw heat. Ozzie's not a power manager. He would rather see the White Sox lead in every small ball category than HR's.
If you look at his two WS rings (2003 Marlins, 2005 White Sox) small ball had the biggest impact on those seasons.