Anybody still thinking Super Bowl?

This offense is downright embarrassing. Griese looks totally confused so far, Berrian can't hold on to the ball, and Ced Benson is at least as detrimental to the team as Grossman was.

BTW - nice post, Rebecka. I always love when BC gets a big fat touche. Oh, and don't worry, I'll reserve my final judgment on Big BG until after the game.

Anyone see that rain in Miami today? I'm having serious flashbacks.......

Paging Mr. Orton.......Mr. Kyle Orton............

You know who Brian Griese reminds me of? Rex Grossman.

Well..he shoulda held his breath on his Intercepted pass returned for a TD!!!

2 Picks 3+ Sacks = Good Griese or Bad Griese?

Bears pisssssss..........ed.....another one away.

Good thing Favrvere isnt back to form!!!???

Thoughts on the game:

- very surprised at Griese's performance, hopefully he turns it around this week
- running game still lame, need to switch out Benson and try AP and Wolfe
- defense played over their heads for three quarters, finally caught up with them in the 4th

Due to Griese's mistakes, we didn't have enough of a lead. We should have been ahead 27 to 3 going into the fourth. We need those defensive players back BADLY, but it looks like it won't happen for a few weeks, which means more of the same until the bye week. Griese should play until then, and if we are out of it, Orton needs to play so we can see who he is. If he is not the answer, we need to start all over again - at QB and RB. I guess I was wrong about the 11-5 season, probably the 9-7 also.

I'm not optimistic with Angelo and Lovie at the helm!

Romo - looks liked you changed your blog lead in from the Bears winning to what you have posted now? Why did you think the Bears were going to pull this one out? Great game in the end however, for the Lions!

Roman responds: I did change it. I wasn't sure whether I should do that or just start a new one. Send in a better comment and I'll get it in the paper.

The Bears are who we thought they were...just kidding, the defense looked bad again. The offense has started to take the life out of the defense and it's only going to get worse. Maybe I should pick a new team and their defense. Any NFL team looking for a misplaced fan? At this point I'll take anyone...anyone?

I have been thinking:

- the Bears running game, and specifcally Thomas Jones was critical to the Bears sucess last year, getting rid of him was a HUGE mistake. Yes he hasn't lit it up in NY but he was a perfect fit for the Bears and was under-appreciated (me included)

- the Bears running backs haven't been picking up the blitz well (see comment above for the reason)

- Bears management and coaches have fallen into the age old trap of sticking with high draft picks when they shouldn't (see Grossman & Benson)

All of these (and many other problems) are interrelated and circular:

1.) Angelo has some talent but is woeful in picking in the 1st & 2nd rounds

2.) Lovie was under qualified when hired and he knew it so he feels beholden to Angelo

3.) So bad high draft picks play and games are lost, and

4.) The Bears ownership is poor, so they reward short-term success with long-term deals (see Wanny and Jauron)

5.) So we are stuck with mediocrity year after year, and

6.) The years when we totally stink (which may end up being this year) we blow the high draft picks, then we end up at # 1 again

....just a continuous bad dream, year after year....

How many rushes did Benson have that were over 10 yards? I can only think of one. He's awful. I stand by everything I said with 6 minutes to go in the 1st quarter, except I'll add that none of the receivers seem to be able to hold on to the ball this year. We have exactly one stand-out player on the team right now - Devin Hester, and you can only count on special teams to get your you-know-what out of a ringer so many times.

You mean Superbowl in 2008? Griese cost the Bears 21 points, 14 they could have scored and 7 for the Lions. I said it before and I'll say it again, no QB is going to succeed in this conservative offense Ron Turner is running. One pass of over 20 yards. The defenses know what to do, stop the run and wait on the short out pattern. Benson is killing the offense. From his performance last season, I thought he would get the job done but he's been awful. And why can't Ron "The Genius" Turner get Hester the ball on offense. Turner has had 7 months to figure out how to get the most explosive offensive weapon in football involved and has failed to do so. I thought the defense played outstanding for 3 quarters with all the injuries they have, but they needed the offense to step up and it was more of the same. Although benching Grossman needed to be done, that is not the answer to the offensive woes. I think the 2 biggest problems are no production from Benson and the play calling. If Griese doesn't get it done next Sunday and the Bears lose, start Orton the following week and see if he has improved. The Bears were 1-3 in 2005 and looked awful and they turned it around, but I don't think it will happen this season.

Angelo looks like a genius trading Harris and Jones for the Tin Man (No heart Benson)! For all you Griese lovers from last week what are we going to hear from you now...he is rusty, has not played in 2+ years...There is a reason Gruden and Shanahan cut him. Now I have to hear Lovie back this clown, am I the only one who thinks Lovie is exactly like Dusty? Protect and coddle underachievers, it seems to be what we do best around here lately.

Give me Orton, AP and Wolfe and lets see some Hester and Olsen out there. Defense should not get a free pass either, they looked awful. Favre could legitimately drop 50 on us next week.

Yes, the Patriots and Cowboys are.

New mantra for Bears in the 4th quarter: FinishED!

Early Early Edition for next Sunday Night Football On NBC:

Lambeau Leaps For Joy! 1 & 3 vs. 4 & 0 you do the math...

well... while I am certainly willing to understand issues of rust, what I saw certainly wasn't very encouraging.

btw... I would have given Rex another shot, especially with the Lions coming up, the first three games were against some of the best teams in the NFL, (the Charger downfall, similar to Bear, notwithstanding.

Benson is still a plodder, that is all he does is plod. When you see Adrian Peterson of the Vikings playing, he's playing the game at three times the speed of Benson, not to mention twice the speed of the other defenders. Benson would be serviceable with the Cowboy lines Emmitt Smith had, when half the time he'd run thru a giant hole into the secondary. The Bears don't have such a line and they don't have Aikman and Irvin to help open such holes up.

which brings us back to the QB question.

like I said.. I'm willing to allow for rust. It's understandeable.
BUT.

watching Griese closely.. here is what I saw:

same lack of footwork and escape ability in the pocket. Just as bad as Grossman. No improvement. They are both atrocrious. Like statues. Aikman and Bledsoe were statues too, but the Bears don't have such a line.

Now, being a veteran, Griese "should" be much better at reading defenses, and he showed glimpses of this, yet fact is he made several very "rexy-esque" coverage mistakes, particularly on the second pick. That was Rex Grossman at his "worst".

but maybe it's rust. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

but the Bears offense will be a horror show to watch, and you want to know why? because my dead grandmother has a stronger arm than Griese. He cannot throw a deep out. He cannot throw a deep slant. He can't throw deep anything. It will be dink and dunk, crossing patterns all the way.

Yawn. This is going to suck big.

A plodder at running back and a dink dunker at QB.

the only difference maker in this offense.. Brian Berrian, has forgotten how to catch the ball. He dropped at least one today, right over the middle.

So we're bringing a 32 year old out of the mothballs with grandma's arm? for what?

If stupid interceptions are going to be thrown, I'd rather see Rex slinging away.

At least the passes looked pretty coming out of his arm :)

Anybody else missing Thomas Jones, just asking?

Roman, I'm 4 & 0 predicting the outcome of Bears' games; I wish they were. Next up, Mr. Record Breaker: Brett Favre!

btw... please don't "blame" Ron Turner for the dink/dunk offense and lack of any deep patterns and deep throws. Griese doesn't have the arm for these throws and Turner specifically tailored the game plan for Griese's strengths... timing and crossing patterns.. short ones.

The TV analysts noted this several times, quoting conversations they had with Turner.

I'm as willing to bash Ron as anyone else, but I do remember he made temporary "stars" out of such scrubs as Erik Turner and Jeff Graham, so he can't be a complete fool.

Is it just me or does it seem like the jinx on the Cubs made its way to the Bears locker room. Injuries, overrated players, pride and just plain stupidity are destroying the Bears. Inflate the rafts...the ship is going down!
Bear dow...ah forget it!
Pass me another beer...and keep the fridge stocked...looks like I'm going to need it for this season.

Does someone want a hardly used Rex Grossman jersey?

Wow! What a 4th Qtr huh? Like I said before, the Bears offense goes deeper than benching Rex grossman. We have a slow Running back with no Vision, Lazy Recievers who won't finish their route or catch the ball on third down, an old offensive line who can't run/pass block, and a offensive coordinator who lacks creativity. I love the Bears and Im always optimistic, but this looks bad man.

FRAUD ALERT....Ron and Norv Turner are the biggest con artists in the NFL.

Rickey Watts + Dez White = Bernard Berrian

Does Brian Griese think he's BATMAN? Or, didn't he see the headlights coming?

When will the Bears RB coach Tim Spencer teach all the backs to carry the ball like Tiki Barber and Garrett Woulfe?

Olin Kreutz does a good Tilt O' Whirl impression when he tries to pass block Shaun Rogers.

Someone better give Ron Turner some Folgers, so, he wake up and get Greg Olsen involved in the game.

What exactly do the Bears coaches do at halftime?

Bears M.O.= Play them close for the first half, make adjustments and wear their defense down, let Bears WRs get open so they can drop passes, 'bum-rush' both guard/center gaps and make them look like their lineman are on roller skates, and wait for INTs to be thrown into double and triple coverage.

Keep asking Bears players where Thomas Jones is.

Hey, whatever happened to Chad Hutchinson? Hang loose Chad!

What the hell is this 52 passing attempts. Lets refocus this team on the Bear type football.......and Run. If that means benching Benson and going with Peterson(he only had two rushes?) and Wolf do it. If it means trading for a guy with some potential do it. What we can't do is try and out pass teams. Hope all you Griese lovers are happy. Orton is the way to go. I said that last year too. He played well in 2005 and has had plenty of time to practice. Remember he came from Purdue after Brees. Lovie, lets try a page from Sweet Lou's book and give some young guys the chance to play. Who knows what could happen?

I'm not down. I actually laughed when the Lions scored last. It was one of those: "what else could go wrong" and "why did I expect that to work"? We'll get it together. Lovie has to absolutely clamp down on these guys. Why did Wale take off his helmet to get his point across? No one mentioned officiating but it sure looked like they had it out for the BEARS. They replayed several plays but almost no questionable calls. It started early and I can see how that helped them to lose any type of focus. I swear that the line judge got dumped by a Chicago girl because he called us every chance he got. Benson is worse than I expected. And I NEVER expected much from him. I was practically the lone person last year who felt like he would get his QB killed because he didn't do ALL the things that Jones did. Why is he running out of bounds without going for more yards now that he's the starter? People were all over Jones for doing that. And this guy fumbles at least once a game. At this pace he'll make you forget all about Salaam's 10 fumbles. Put in Peterson. And Wolfe will get killed behind this line. I also said that we had to get younger at the line and few people were concerned. Now you can see what I was talking about. Griese was brutal but I still feel that rust will come off and he'll be better. Can't down the D. Having to get out there after those turnover is what's doing them in. Urlacher was fierce and I think we found a hitting machine with McGowen. Keep him in. With our secondary being revamped I can't say that I expected worse. Actually they did better than expected. Remember that Lions were the #1 team passing in the NFL and I think the D played as well as you could expect. I loved what the D-line was doing. They really got to the QB early and often. We didn't adjust and that comes back on Lovie and his coaches. 2nd straight game that we had a lead and let it slip away. Those guys don't deserve an off day this week. Berrian SUCKS bad. I can't type that word any bigger. But I wish I could. Why isn't Bradley starting or playing more? At least I can tell that Hester plays better facing the football and anything else is too foreign to him. Give Davis more chances. And where was Olsen? I may ask a few questions but the BEARS will have to answer us sooner or later.

Cedric Ennis... Curtis Benson.... what is the difference?
RBs that can't run or hold onto the ball.
WRs that can't catch or get open.
QBs that throw more TDs to the opposing team than their own.
Coaches that are clueless and make no adjustments during the game or even during the week.
A GM that has no idea how to draft an offensive player other than Greg Olson (and he sits on the bench!)
An owner that believes that it is 1956 and rewards her loyal yet mediocre lackeys…
What a mess.

I am still thinking about the Superbowl. Of course, I did not see today's game. That's the beauty of it. I have no anger to release.
Only Positive thoughts. That's how I got through the 90's anyway.
Not watching the Bears. How did that Wannstedt guy do anyway?

Really...Good post BP...Totally Agree..you cant break too many runs, if you only carry it 13 times.

Lets do some math...

2 Bad QB's
+
3 Bad Running Backs
=
Bad Offesive Line Maybe?

I still think we made a mistake by not Hiring RUSS GRIMM as HEAD COACH.

I geuss will just have to wait for Singletary to restore us to our former level of Greatness.

Where are all of you Grossman haters now?? All I kept reading this week was that Griese won't produce the turnovers that Grossman has been. Well what the heck do you call 3 interceptions? He got sacked 7 times and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn...except for when Berrian was dropping the darn ball. You blame Grossman for the Bears offense but it runs much deeper. Grossman's confidence is probably shot because of this offense. Mark my words, he'll go to another team next year and tear it up in the NFL.

Why aren't we seeing Mark Bradley at WR? Berrian can't catch and Muhammed can't get open.

I wonder if any of the fans who say the Bears should get Donovan McNabb still feel this way after Sunday nights game.
Brian Griese looked just like Rex today, except Griese can't throw deep.
Doesn't Griese look like the Gary Cole character ( Ricky Bobby's father) in "Talladega Nights".
The Bears need to demote Ron Turner immediately, like Brian Billick did to Jim Fassell last season. The only hope for the Bears offense is to get Hester, Wolfe and Olsen involved in the offense.

Well, it's apparent the problem with the offense isn't just Rex -- the problem is with the offensive system as a whole (thus, Orton is not the answer). Switching quarterbacks was wishful thinking, but the harsh reality is that the running game is completely unreliable and the Bears are going to need to rely on the passing game for most of their production (assuming they can block and catch). Things needs to be opened up and the offense needs to play like it did last September. I was not in favor of benching Rex because he gives the Bears the best chance to win and is young enough where he can improve. I'm in favor of his benching (temporarily) to give him time to gather his head out of the spotlight of all the scrutiny, but I think he should be given another shot before he's tossed aside as another failed experiment. Really have nothing to lose at this point. The true first round bust is Benson, not Rex. Isn't it clear that the wrong guy got benched?

Well the season is over. Now we have to stop Angelo/Lovie/Turner/Babich from destroying what's left of the Team and going into a tailspin for the next decade. There is enough talent on both sides of the ball to be successful with the right coaching, right offense and a decent running back. Lovie has wrecked his career, put him out of his misery and fire him now! Hire Steve Mariucci right now! He will have the rest of this season and the whole off-season to evaluate the Team, teach them how to play offense, draft a running back, offense line help and a quarterback. Here is the list of things that have to be done immediately to save the Team:
1, Fire Angelo.
2, Fire the entire coaching staff.
3, Hire Mariucci.
4, Cut Cedric Benson.
5, Cut Rex Grossman.
6, Play Kyle Orton to see if he can cut it with Griese as back up.
7, Put the ball in Devin Hester's hands.
8, Experiment with a wide open offense.
9, Scrap the "Tampa Two", "Cover Two" or whatever you want to call that stupid defense.
10, Hire a REAL Offensive and Defensive Coordinator.
11, Beg Bill Polian to take over as GM before the next draft.
12, Use the rest of the season to get ready for 2008-2009.

The only bright spot could be that the God of Lost Causes may be appeased by the disaster being wrought in Soldier Field and allow the Cubs to win the World Series!!!! Who am I kidding, the Cubs will find a way to "Bartman" the play-offs some way some how......

Okay Roman, let's do this once again. You backed off your prediction of well over .500 for the Bears last week and tweaked it to 9-7. Are you still willing to stick with that? I see 5-11 at this point. What's hilarious is that the Bears expert at that other paper in town reports that the Brain Trust of Halas Hall still thinks it's still too early to judge Ced Benson. Is Forrest Gump now in charge over there?

Roman responds: I don't want to change it every week. If I were to do that, I'd switch it to 5-11. That offensive line is the biggest problem.

"Playoffs? What are you kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game."

(Jim Mora, circa whenever)

It is pretty sad seeing what is happening to the Bears. I used to enjoy amking fun of them (all in good fun), but they look so bad that it's not even funny anymore. Fans always accuse T.O. and other Cowboys of having big mouths, but maybe somebody should tell the Bears players to keep their mouths shut and go out and play hard. Every week they try and play the we get no respect card, but they don't have a leg to stand on. Hope they pull it around, seriously, it is not fun watching a team with so much potential look so bad. Good luck.

It's not Benson or Griese. Give Benson a shot.. at the same point last year Thomas Jones had 3.32 YPG and Benson has 3.22 after 4 games, so no biggie. Griese atleast didn't get tackled by someone's ankle under pressure.

Our coaches are being out coached and looks like they forget how to re-adjust thier game plan during halftime, while other teams figure out everything we do.

4 weeks
Opp. 1st half points:13
Opp. 2nd half points:79
Heads need to roll this offseason.

PLAYOFFS? PLAYOFFS? We just need to win a game.
I hate to change the subject but if you want some laughs, go back and read the Feb. 26 blog. Baseball prospectus predicted the White Sox would finish fourth and the Cubs would win the division.
They said the White Sox would win 72 or 73 games. Not bad.

I found it laugh out loud funny Bettis and Collingsworth were talking about how the Bears might wanna do a trade-back with the Jets...lol, I'm not kidding...Can they?

The Bears are who I thought they were....you wanted to crown their asses in training camp!? Then crown their asses!!...The Bears are who I thought they were...But you didn't listen to me...and you let 'em off the hook...

Now sing...

Without RexandCed....

I'll give Griese one "Honeymoon" excuse for yesterday's ordeal, but agree with other posts as far as giving Klye Orton a shot soon......say after the Bears are 1-6 in two weeks.

Anybody up for locating Cade McNown? ..... Craig Krenzel?........hey, what's Henry Burris up to???

What the hell is this 52 passing attempts. Lets refocus this team on the Bear type football.......and Run.

Posted by: BP | September 30, 2007 08:13 PM

The above comment is NOT what's wrong with the Bears. Yes, there must be ball control, but every now and then a team has to be capable of playing in a shoot-out. The Chicago Bears have never been good at that except for maybe when Jim McMahon was playing. You guys know you would love to see our QB in the Shot-Gun slinging it down-field (on first down sometimes)! We do not have a hurry up offense or any of the tricks we see other teams using! WE ALL KNOW THIS! WE KNOW IT!

The defense is broke down from the previous quarterback -(W-REX-K)- ineptness. I will not blame Brian for everything. We are always trying to get a lead and HOLD ON FOR DEAR LIFE! Sometimes you have to sling the ball and put 40 points on the board though the defense might give up 30 to 39 points!!

I am tired of this T-formation crap. This is PRO-FOOTBALL and if the QB has to toss it forty or fifty times to win the game so be it! At least he threw for almost three hundred yards, when the last time the demoted knucklehead has done this? This is NOT a CLOUD of DUST game as in previous years! No wonder everyone knows our game plan regardless who the offensive co-ordinator. WHAT DO THE BEARS DO? Run the Football, PLAY good Defense, and pray it can keep the miniscule lead. NO DEFENSE IS GOING TO SHUT DOWN OFFENSES like the 1985 Bears did? OKAY!! This is 2007, PLAY LIKE IT!

We have the most dangerous return man in the league and probably will be in NFL history! Get him the DAMN BALL!

Also, I notice one IMPORTANT thing, Lovie Smith was NOT as strong in his conviction for Griese as he has been for Grossman, when the media asked "IS BRIAN STILL YOUR STARTING QB?"

How do you have a lead for most of the game and only Run the ball 23 times as a team w/ Two Picks in the RED ZONE???

Cedric Benson 15 att 50yds 0td 16lng
Brian Griese 2 att 8yds 0td 6
Adrian Peterson 2 att 8yds 0td 7
Garrett Wolfe 3 att 3yds 0td 2

Yeah, the loss was bad but I think it was a step in the right direction. At least Griese passed for some decent yardage. At least we had some chances to put up TD's in the red zone. Let's face it, "Bears" football is not gonna work. Running attack is nonexistent and our "shutdown D", while still good, is porous at best.

That brand of football simply does not work anymore. The "Bears" philosophy is outdated and fundamentally flawed. The best defense is a great offense. Look at the best teams in the NFL and you'll see that that's obviously the case. The rest of the league "gets it". How come we don't?

I think we self-fullfilled our own prophesies. We asked to be BAD with REX and now we got it. Except the universe took it a step further. Since we asked to be BAD, it said...your JUST GOING TO BE BAD PERIOD. With REX or Without.

Nice job everyone...congratulate yourselves for being so fricking pessimistic and negative. You wanted it...now you got it.

I tried to tell you!!!!

THE SECRET

Thanks God for Devin! He is the spark- now all we need is some propane! Our offense is in trouble-who is to blame is up in the air. Coordinator? Players? Maybe both. I really didn't think Brian was the answer to our problems, especially since he threw ok. I don't know what the answer is- I just know that as a fan- it hurts to see a great footbal team cave in on itself.

That game actually was kind of enjoyable for me! Roman, you and MOST others said last week that QB was the biggest concern. Now, I noticed you responded to one of your previous bloggers comments and you say the Offensive Line is the biggest problem. Something that I said after the Kansas City game when you gave the O-Line a C for a grade. It's a good thing we made that QB change! Now maybe Grossman and Griese can join Mike Ditka's crusade about pension benefits, seeing that they're both gonna need it themselves if they continue to play behind this line!

I think the bottom line here is that it has been confirmed that:

- the quarterback position is the problem
- Grossman is not the answer
- Griese does not appear to be the answer, but we should give him a couple more games
- we still don’t know if Orton is the answer

If they play Orton and he fails also, then it looks like we need to clean house and start all over again with what will probably be a high draft choice in 2008. It’s a darn shame but it’s our own fault for sticking with Grossman all this time.

Benson is obviously a bust but we have to keep him for at least another year or two in order to avoid the salary cap hit. From now on no 1st round draft picks wasted on running backs anymore. The risk/reward ratio has too much on the risk side. There are too many good backs found in later rounds. Much better to spend high draft picks on lineman who will open up the holes for the running backs.

We were all blinded by so many things last year, Grossman’s first five games, a weak schedule with a weak division, Benson’s “upside”, a lack of appreciation of what Thomas Jones meant to this team……it was painfully obvious that major changes need to be made at quarterback, offensive line, wide receiver but none were, and it was decided to just try again with the same guys – minus Thomas Jones, probably one of the players we could least afford to lose. I suppose many of us would have gone crazy if those changes were actually made, but now it is apparent that they should have.

I always thought that a foundation was laid here for the Bears to be successful for many years. Now I know that the 1st and 2nd round flops by Angelo have doomed us to suffer for another few years until they get rid of him and Lovie. There should be at least 10 players (from these two rounds) of the starting 22 that should be productive now – and there are only two, Tommie Harris and Devin Hester (and Hester plays only part time).

Teams that consistently compete every year hit on at least 90% of their picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds and a declining percentage in later rounds. Angelo has a higher percentage in later rounds, and while that is commendable, it doesn’t result in a team that will compete for championships year after year.

Is it me or has anyone noticed that Bear Quarterbacks haven't called an audible since Mike Ditka snapped on Jim Harbaugh back in 1989?! I'm just saying, The great Thomas Jones/Jim Brown said last year that other teams knew what they were running when they got to the line of scrimmage. Folks, you can't win a game of John Madden Football on playstation if your opponent knows what you are doing! What I want to know is, why aren't Bears the same aggressive team on offense as they are on defense? On defense, they try to make plays, yet on offense, they wanna run the football and punt. I said it before and I'll say it again: If Mike Martz were the offensive coordinator in Chicago, we not only would be defending champs, but we would also be 4-0!

There's still at least one poster blaming the defensive collapse yesterday on Grossman. Wake-up, Grossman was on the bench. It's clear that Grossman was not the only problem, or even the biggest problem with the offense. "No QB can succeed with the type of offense the Bears are running". Tony Romo hit the nail on the head last week. Someone on the offensive line said the defense knows what's coming. That's very clear with the 3rd pick by Griese looking like a replay of Grossman's pick last week. 3 defenders swarming to the spot where the primary receiver is running to. The Bears need a vertical passing game, or at least the threat of one to open up the running game. Just like in the Superbowl, where the Colts played to take away the deep ball-big play, and the Bears averaged 7 yards per carry. Spaghetti armed Griese is not that threat. 52 passes and not even 300 yards passing against the 31st ranked pass defense.
There's people still sticking up for Ron Turner, bringing up the 1995 season. If he can make stars out of "scrubs" like Erik Kramer and Jeff Graham, then why can't he get Hester the ball on offense, or Garrett Wolfe and Greg Olsen involved. Wolfe,the smallest player on the field, had 2 carries into the middle of the line. Great play calling.
The offense needs a new coordinator with a modern system and some imagination to use the big play abilities of Hester, Wolfe and Olsen.
The offense needs a QB with a stronger arm than Griese has.
The offense needs a running game, but they're stuck with Benson. There's not much that can be done with him now, except for using Benson, Wolfe and Peterson somewhat equally.
I think this season is going to get uglier, before it gets better.

Thinking Super Bowl? How about dusting off an old Jim Mora chestnut: Playoffs?!? Playoffs?!? It was 20 years between Super Bowls and it's going to be another 20.

The Bears just need help in too many areas. They need a new 'franchise' quarterback, which either takes their first-round pick next year or big bucks in the free agent market. They need a new running back as Cedric Benson looks like another bust running back from Texas (again a top pick or lots of free agent money). While we're at it, the Bears need a new offensive line (do they have any OL under the age of 28 that *might* be able to play?) and some new receivers. Yes Berrian is fast but if he can't catch the ball in close coverage he's useless. I saw Mushin Muhammed drop passes yesterday that he didn't drop 5 years ago. Unless you're Jerry Rice or Art Monk, wide receiver is not an ageless position. The Bears have several No. 2's and 3's, but no No. 1's, and that hurts.

Lovie and the pundits say a Super Bowl window stays open only so long (Colts and Patriots excepted). The Bears' window slammed shut around 3:30 yesterday.

I'm too depressed To comment.I thought Terry Bradshaws' comments were right on. He said Grossman should have started because the long ball is his strength and Detroit's weakness. Did anyone ever claim Griese could throw the long ball? What are the odds of a comeback against Favre and company next week? I can never understand why teams do not defense Donald Driver more effectively. He's a great route runner, but should not be open as much he is. Sometimes it seems no one bothers to cover him and no defender is within ten yards of him. I really thought this was the year of the Bear. I'm getting too old to wait until next year.I even hesitate to buy green bananas.

I am still thinking playoffs, but I was never thinking Superbowl. Bears are going to turn this season around. The defense is going to help Griese once they get back. We are still suffering from Rex's administration and its going to take a few games to get some guys back.

Never liked Benson. He is part of the problem and we need to be looking at Quarterbacks and Runningbacks. Benson and Rex should be cut. Griese gets a pass because he's rusty, and I only blame him for one of those interceptions (the last one of course). I wanted to see if the offense would respond and rally around Griese, and I was wrong - our recievers are still dropping balls. Moose and Berrian! I also was watching the O-line and Griese was sacked 6 times.

I know you guys find it hard to see, but we had a LOT of improvement - believe me. At least the offense wasn't 3 and out! We had 2 field goals. You know what that means...that means two sustained drives. I'd bet if you looked at time of possesion you will find its way up! We scored 27 points and that is VERY hopeful! Its our Defense that is hurting badly. I am very hopeful that most guys will be back soon. Urlacher dropped a big one too!

Hester, Wolfe and Olsen aren't playing because Lovie says no. It is so funny, he plays Ced and Rex because Angelo tells him to, then he ruins the team, and now he won't play guys that might make a difference probably because he doesn't "trust them" yet - when Rex and Ced have abused his trust again and again.....what a joke of a head coach.....

Hey, wait a sec, wasn't Lovie going to replace Rex at QB? I could have sworn he was going to put in a QB that wouldn't throw drive killing interceptions in the red zone or throw picks that were returned for TD's... That's what Griese was supposed to deliver, wasn't it? Better decision making? What happened?

Here's a thought, maybe it isn't just the QB position that is wrong with this Bears offense and maybe going 1-2 wasn't all Rex's fault...

I was watching some of the post game interviews and who was that new coach for the Bears? He sure looked like Lovie Smith, but didn't sound like him. I mean, he seemed humble, respectful. Not that coach that we saw all during preseason who kept shooing away any concerns about the team with his "I know better than you" smugness. Boy, some of his interviews reminded me of another great Chicago coach, Dave "All the pieces are in place" Wannstadt. Now, I realize that Lovie is no Dave, but he's no Bill (Belichek), either.

He's got a team that turned old and out of shape incredibly fast.

He's got an offensive coordinator who literally frothed at the mouth about the possibilities of putting the ball in the hands of Olsen, Hester, Wolfe, Berrian, etc. But, come game time, doesn't use them (except for Berrian, who by his own admission needs to concentrate more on catching the ball -- isn't that what he's paid to do?). On the plus side, that same offensive unit has scored one more TD than the Notre Dame Fighting Irish. Yeah for small victories.

He's got dissension in the ranks. Looks like the defensive unit really doesn't care much for the offensive unit.

A GM who can't draft and develop a quarterback to save his life.

I thought we would end the season at 10-6 and in the playoffs. Now it looks more like 6-10 with a total of three starters on defense still on the field at the end of the season.

Oh well, I bet the Blackhawks will be great this year!

Give Griese a break ... he threw 65% of his 52(!) passes for completions, one of his picks went right through Berrian's hands, and his passer rating of 68.3 was still better than any Rex outing this year. Although he was throwing behind his receivers, he still appeared more comfortable than Rex. Give him some more games and he will shake off the cobwebs. His bad game looked better than a bad game for Rex. The Bears have many critical issues to address, but Griese was asked to step into a downward spiralling offense with no running attack, little offensive line help, receivers that are great at dropping passes, and a coaching staff that doesn't even understand the fundamentals of football (i.e. why did 12 seconds tick off the clock after a completed pass in bounds with just over a minute left to go in the game when we had 3 timeouts left? When else are you going to use your timeouts?). Let's take our frustration out on other components of the team that have been consistently poor, not Griese yet; at least he didn't fumble the ball!

JohnF ... I said the same thing when they hired Angelo .. he wasn't a great talent evaluator - it was the McCays that were behind Tampa's resurgence NOT Angelo. Angelo was crazy about the mediocre Dilfer and the now nowhere-to-be-found Shawn King.

But he came cheap as a FIRST TIME General Manager - just like the McCaskeys like it! The McCaskeys are in love with FIRST TIME General Managers, FIRST TIME Head Coaches, and starting shoddy QBs who would be lucky to be second string on any other team in the NFL.

I also said last year that Bears fans would regret it if Angelo was re-signed to a long term deal based on the Super Bowl and the incredibly easy schedules they had the past two years that made them look better than they were. EVERY other team in their division had new head coaches last year because they were so bad the year before. That's an unprecedented level of total division suckiness!

As usual Bears fans are seeing the light only after the train has already run them over.

Angelo is as bad (with his offensive picks) as he is good (with his defensive picks). And you have years more of them on the way!

You bunch of morons!!!! All last season you guys banged on Rex Grossman, he got you to the SuperBowl. Is he the best quarterback in the league? No. But he sure is hell is WAY BETTER the Brian Griese. Greise stunk in Denver, he stunk in Miami, and he stunk in Tampa, have you idiots forgotten that. At least Rex has the ability to play well, he might not have the brain but he has the ability. Brian Griese has neither. What is it you people can't stand prosperity. Damn I am embarrased to be born and raised in Chicago and be a Bear fan because of you idiots. Maybe if you lived in another part of the country you would see things a little differently. But living there and reading the media has blurred your vision. Think about this..... IT'S THE BEARS, it's not the patriots or the colts, with the exception of 1985 we haven't won squat, we finally have a decent season and all you people want to do is beat on a kid who just had his first full season starting. Good lord. You people don't deserve a winner because once you get one you will tear it up.

and yes, I'm still thinking Superbowl...feel like I should copy/paste my responses...

maybe Angelo should take my free advice...alleviate some of that 16 million dollar burden...

wow JA...2005...trading out of that pick and getting Julius Jones...shoulda listened then...but I'll try again

The starters Sunday night should be..

QB..Orton...
RB..Adrian Peterson, Wolfe, and Hester...
WR..Berrian/Bradley/Davis/Hester...sorry Moose, they're better athletes
TE...throw to them often (especially Olson) at the onset of plugging these guys into the offense....Jason McKie can also create a mismatch...but even moreso...honesty in the defense

I feel like I should type a book as to why...but I figured the why was obvious... but... if we stick to these guys for the rest of the season, we should be able to eek into the playoffs....

and the offense should be hitting their stride come Dec/January...

and the defense will be healthy....

Really, it's the only shot DaBears have of salvaging this season

Strip down the play book, put your "best athletes" in the game...and go for it

So yes, Roman...I'm still thinking the guys on this roster have a shot....The Bears are playing the wrong guys

Give my guys 3 games...you will see noticeable improvement...the athletes know who they are...put them together...they'll know it...renewed excitement across the board....oh yeah....and duh..

For the first time in the last three years I picked against the Bears in my weekly picks on the sole fact that Griese was starting. Sure he threw the ball for 286 yards, but he also threw the ball 52 times for a measly 5.5 yards an attempt. He threw three interceptions and fumbled twice. I mean these numbers were against the Detroit Lions, who we all know are an upper echelon defense, common. It just shows there are more problems on the offense, not just Grossman. If the Bears are to pull themselves out of this hole it needs to be a whole team effort. Benson needs to start running, the wide receivers need to step-up, the offensive line needs to block, and the defense needs to finish. But it needs to start with putting Rex back in. He gives the Bears the best chance to win, not only this week but for the rest of the season. If not, it looks like I will do the unthinkable again and pick against the Bears on Sunday.

The problem with the Bears is not the Quarterback!

The Bears "offensive" offense problems are not Grossman or Griese. It's not the decision to trade Thomas Jones, and go with Cedric (Don't call me TIP-TOE) Benson and Adrian Peterson. It's not even the dropped passes, (or catch and lateral to the db receptions ). The Bears have two serious problems on offense.
First, the offensive line is losing the battle on the line of scrimmage. when your offensive line cannot run/pass block and are being constantly pushed into the backfield, that creates all kinds of problems. QB sacks, hurries, no room to step up or into your throw,and not enough room for your backs to secure the handoff, pick a hole, ( hole?), and accelerate through it.
The second and most significant problem is, the receivers and QB's USE A DIFFERENT PLAYBOOK!!! think about it. on most of the int's, the receiver cut one direction and the QB threw the other direction, or the receiver pulled up and the QB threw long. it's not that the wrong play or the correct audible is called. but,the interpretation of which direction the receiver should cut/break, depending upon what the defense is in., ( cover 2, man, blitz etc.) They just are not on the same page.
This does not take into account defensive shortcomings, injuries, or play-calling on both sides of the ball.

With all its flaws the Bears should have won the game yesterday.
The Quarterback is the heart of the team, who is looked upon to lead and make the right decisions.

As I stated previously, Griese is a has been. Give Kyle the chance. He has proven in the past that he can make the right decisions. He is mobile and has a pretty good arm. What can you lose?

Izzy

Hey, Mike Tomaszewski, you are quick to jump on us because Rex was not the problem, but let me ask you this..how many games does Tony Romo have under his belt? That's right! Less than Grossman, but then again, you would have to be a complete MORON to even try and compare the two. It doesn't take two years to know if a quarterback is worth anything. Grossman sucks! That is why he is no longer the starter. He is not the only problem now, but he was last year. Because the Bears wasted a great opportunity last year, now the rest of the NFC has caught up and passed us. Now the team does not have a quarterback that can carry the load and win a game (we all know that Benson is not going to do it), so the only thing we can do is hope and pray that Hester can win the games on his own. The defense is tired and hurting, the offense bites and the games are only going to get harder. This year? I don't think so, we had our chance last year, but we blew it waiting for a quarterback that had only played his first full year as a starter...lol...the only stupid one here is you if you still think that Grossman is a quality quarterback. If only they had done the right thing last year...ugh!

I coudn't figure out how to put up these photos, so, I put a link to them..enjoy!

http://html.nbc5.com/sh/blogger/2007/09/did-anyone-get-plates-of-that-truck.html

I said it last year,I said it after the Super Bowl, I said it at the beginning of this year,and I'm saying it now.The offensive line is over rated,old, and falling apart.Keep Grossman out let the kid live while he's still young .Let them beat Griese up.Sign some free agent offensive linemen in the off season ans draft a couple in the middle rounds.Oh and sign Grossman you Boneheads!!

I meant 2004...free advice...blah blah blah

I am sick of everyone bashing Angelo and Lovie.

And yes, I AM still thinking Super Bowl

1). No coach has had more success during the post Ditka-era (and frankly, during the pre-Dikta/post-Halas Era) than Lovie Smith. In three years, he has two division championships and one conference Championship.

It is absolutely offensive to hear people try and say that this individual, who has brought this franchise success, was not "qualified" to do the job, after he has acheived more success than almost every other coach in the league the past few seasons.

Why do you say this? Because he is African American? Based upon how people on this board and how certain media figures in the city have treated him (Mike North), I think this is a factor. Because it certainly isn't due to his performance. He's been successful.

2) While I don't like all of the moves Angelo has made, he has been quite successful in building the franchise. More often than not, his moves have made the team better.

If you fault him for trading Jones, you need to thank him for drafting Harris, Hester, Tillman, Vasher, Brown, Briggs, and signing a solid vet line.

3) I don't know what people were expecting from Griese his first start. It was the first time he played any significant minutes in years. And it didn't help that the recievers dropped ball after ball. Let's give the guy a few games before he's thrown under the bus.

4) And lets be honest. Rex and Benson have only been one part of the problem. The MAJOR dilemma has been INJURIES.

Anyone who thought that the Bears would be able to stop the Lions with their entire starting secondary and Briggs on the sideline (and then Payne) was fooling themselves. The fact that they held the team for so long was actually encouraging.

5) In case anyone hasn't noticed A LOT OF GOOD TEAMS ARE PLAYING POORLY.

The Eagles, Bears and Saints -- all popular SB picks, are collectively 2-9. The Chargers are 1-3. The Ravens look bad.

Meanwhile, teams like the Lions and Packers are at the top of divisions.

How long do you really think that is going to last?

Frankly, I wouldn't be suprised to see the rest of the playoff teams after the Cowboys come in at around 10-6 to a possible 8-8 team getting into the mix.

And remember, the Bears were 1-4 two years ago before they won the division.

It's still early, and I still am not buying the miracle act of the Packers, and we should have beaten the Lions.

If they can get everyone back in the fold on defense quickly, and if Griese catches a rhythm, I see no reason this team still can't finish 10-6. That should easily get the team into the playoffs, if not a possible bye.

The sky is grey, but it isn't falling.

Thank god Hitman has a handle on all of this.

BEST POST IN THIS THREAD ACCORDING TO ME IS....

You bunch of morons!!!! All last season you guys banged on Rex Grossman, he got you to the SuperBowl. Is he the best quarterback in the league? No. But he sure is hell is WAY BETTER the Brian Griese. Greise stunk in Denver, he stunk in Miami, and he stunk in Tampa, have you idiots forgotten that. At least Rex has the ability to play well, he might not have the brain but he has the ability. Brian Griese has neither. What is it you people can't stand prosperity. Damn I am embarrased to be born and raised in Chicago and be a Bear fan because of you idiots. Maybe if you lived in another part of the country you would see things a little differently. But living there and reading the media has blurred your vision. Think about this..... IT'S THE BEARS, it's not the patriots or the colts, with the exception of 1985 we haven't won squat, we finally have a decent season and all you people want to do is beat on a kid who just had his first full season starting. Good lord. You people don't deserve a winner because once you get one you will tear it up.

Posted by: Mike Tomaszewski | October 1, 2007 03:31 PM

Seriously...If I could sum up everything I have tried to tell everyone these last couple weeks all rolled into one, it would be this post.

AM I THE ONLY BEARS FAN WHO DIDNT CAVE TO THE ANTI-REX BANDWAGON.

Some of u "so called bears fans" really dont know JACK SHIP about football. Rex may have tiny hands and feet and small. But he was the BEST WE HAD.

Maybe Orton can take his head out of a BONG long enough to give it a shot once Griese melts down again.

Even if Griese has a good game, Ill still be sick, cause we just took 4 steps back by benching Rex.

Even Parcells was laughing at us before tonights game on ESPN.

PARCELLS...LAUGHING.....AT US!!!

UGGGG........HITMAN...I BLAME YOU FOR 90% OF THIS....the OTHER 10% I blame Berrian and Mushy.

Mike Tomazewski - you are whats wrong with Chicago! Keep that good-but-not-great attitude outside of Chicago! We are tired of the playoffs and out. WE WANT TO WIN! We want to be like our counterparts - LA and NY! Win or die trying! You can have 2nd-last place! Even the Cubs have bought into the NEW philosophy. They went out and spent money on the BEST and reaped the rewards! What was great about what the Cubs did is that they now have a chance to win it ALL, not just make a guest appearance! Bears have to come up! Chicago deserves a quality HIGH-PRICED Quarterback, and not some joker we lucked up on in the draft. Our superbowl appearance was the result of a GREAT DEFENSE, good specials teams (with a star kicker and return specialist), a sometimey QB, and most of all a watered down NFC. Bears made it to the big dance, but mister sometimey did us in and all the defense has for all of its great play is an honorable mention in Peyton Manning's coronation ceremony! All the Bears needed was Denny Green to say "go ahead and crown..."! We were and absolute joke. Rex is terrible and a complete waste of our time! And that goes for Mr. Benson too! We are going to turn the season around behind a serviceable guy in Griese, but we need to focus on getting McNabb, a QUALITY back-up, AND a decent back in here next year! That combined with our defense and special teams = superbowl and I don't care if Stevie Wonder is calling the plays!!!

Ricky Williams applies for reinstatement to the NFL

this...in case you're wondering...is what a real RB looks like....

How anyone could watch Ricky play at UT....see Cedric follow...and dump the 4th pick in the entire draft....

That 'trade-back' Bettis was talking about with the Jets....think Miami would go for it?

Then we can have the Real Ricky....instead of little ricky

Hitman....great plan....

Not...Gonna...Happen...Ever...with Lovie as coach.

As we have all seen with Grossman, you have to suck for at least a year before you are replaced so we are stuck with Benson, Moose, Griese, Gilmore instead of the players that should at least have a shot at playing. I mean, what the hell do you have to lose, you are 1-3 for cripes sake!!

The only thing I'll say is Griese should have at least 2-3 more games to work it out, but I agree with everyone else. Throw in some new offensive lineman while you are at it - it can't be any worse.

I disagree about the QB comments. Yes 2 picks in the red zone are terrible, but grossman could not even get to the red zone. I look for a huge game from Brian this week against an over-hyped Green Bay team. Bench Benson. We had a fire Mike Davis website and it worked, maybe a www.benchbenson.com is in order. Prediction for game.

Bears 30
Cheeseheads 13

Several key startes on D back this week, and Benson will be Benched for good at halftime. Mark it down.

Superbowel? Don`t EVEN think it. This bunch is soft and fashion
statements is all they worry about. If they stay off Jerr Azumahs
GQ list maybe they can get in shape to play football.
Dallas busted this team up and Detroit finished the job sunday.
Cancel all the prime time they are not ready.
Tuner should have left with Rivera
Can Lovie coach? or is Angelo ah does`nt matter.
No postgame for this team. REBUILD!

Let's give Griese a little more time before passing judgement. His passes were behind his receivers all day. Timing corrections will cure that ill and the int.s, and Cedric can't run if the 'D' is in the backfield the moment he touches the ball. Every offensive lineman was THROWN back at least twice in that game except Garza. NOT GOOD!

The one glaring mistake in the game Sunday was the change of our defensive philosophy after we took the 13-3 lead. You go what got you to that point and Babich just went vanilla on us and left his tired and inexperienced troops 'DEFENSELESS'. I would have continued to put pressure on Kitna to force quicker throws and help out the 'D' backs with this strategy at the same time. But nooooooooooooooo! Mr. Babich decides to play it safe, give Kitna the time any Q.B. needs to disect a 'NO SUBS' secondary, and BLAM, the results speak for themselves.

You have EIGHT capable rushers, FIVE tough, healthy linebackers, you don't stop going after the guy. DUH!

Babich is still learning a position he's new to, but he hurt this one, big time.

Finally got a chance to read the blogs. Seems a lot of bloggers are concerned about the number of passes thrown (52) and Cedrics' inept rushing.

Detroits linebackers, as were everyone else's these past four weeks, were a single yard behind the 'D' line. They often had eight men in the box. Teams are daring the Bears to throw, trying to cut off our life line (running the football), and knowing damn well that the offensive line is not doing a good job of protecting the Q.B. Personally, I would have thrown the ball 52 times the previous three weeks, all short and crisp. Until we can prove we can pass this is going to be the M.O. we're going to face.

With the 'D' hurting the way it is, and the 'O' line being pushed back consistently, Griese gives us the best chance of ball control (keep our 'D' off the field), and quick release decisions (bail our flailing offensive line out). Two picks were a result of him throwing behind the receiver (timing that can be corrected or even helped out a little by the receivers).

Brett Favre is due for a stinker, and Griese will be much sharper this week.

Now, if the offensive line remembers to take their Geritol, Babich remains aggressive for 60 minutes (whatta you got to lose at this juncture), and the other coaches stop watching reruns of Golden Girls at halftime and concentrate on adjustments, I predict a Green Bay lapse of an upset.

You all can quote me on that.

Keith,

Make no mistake about it, I am sick of seeing my favorite teams lose also, but like it or not Rex is the best option that the Bears have right now. In my opinion Tom Brady is the best QB in the league, but if the fans and media in the Boston area were to constantly beat on him it would at some point tear him down to a bad QB. Because Rex is the best option on the Bears I think propping him up would probably work better. If you don't want to do that then you just have to live with the crappy backups that are there.

Anthony,

You don't have to give Brian Griese more time, he's had 8 years in the league, how much more time does he need?

Keith....Can you try to be consistant for once and stop trying to please everyone all the time, you sound like flipping John Kerry.

FIRST YOU SAY THIS.....
"I am still thinking playoffs, but I was never thinking Superbowl"
Posted by: Keith Lifetime Southsider
October 1, 2007 01:33 PM

THEN YOU SAY....
"Mike Tomazewski - you are whats wrong with Chicago! Keep that good-but-not-great attitude outside of Chicago! We are tired of the playoffs and out. WE WANT TO WIN"

WHICH IS IT HOMIE????

You want superbowl or playoffs and out? Cause youve now SAID BOTH!?

Dont try to flip flop your way past me bud!!

Culzie

Wow, you have some intelligent posters on here, Roman. Kudos to all of you who are for sticking with Griese.

The rest of you need some NFL Football 101. I cannot believe you have sat and watched grossman and made umpteen million excuses for him, and are still trying to tell us that he is a viable NFL QB, and better than Griese.

Read Bradd Biggs article in the Sun Times today. Egads, a Columnist that actually knows something about football. "Griese had not started in almost two years, and he should get better after going from virtually no work in practice to getting all of it. Even a 10-year veteran needs time to become reacquainted with the speed of the game, and then there's learning the players he's with. After Griese threw a touchdown pass to Berrian in the preseason, it was said to be only about the sixth time he had thrown to Berrian all summer because Griese was working with the second team."

Another Columnist, I forgot who, mentioned the FACT that Griese has had only (7) games with 3 or more Ints, IN HIS CAREER. He didn't mention that he also had 2 or 3 TDs in almost all of those games. Ditto Sunday.

Grossman has already had (8) and had zero TDs or, at most, one in each of those games. Oh, I know, he is a 5th year rookie and keeps getting different coaches and doesn't prepare for games that don't count, the Bear's Defense should hold the Opponents to less than 3 when that is all the points grossman can muster, and the receivers are dropping balls so he can't even break 200 yards, and his hands get sweaty, and the ball gets wet, and it is Kruetz' fault that he can't handle the snap so we shouldn't believe our own eyes when they run the replay and it clearly shows grossman pulling out too early. Et cetra, so on and so forth, adnauseum. Despite the fact that he has had all this time with the Receivers, TEs and RBs?

On the otherhand, Griese should go into an Offense based on >>>timing

Before some of you put your feet any further in your mouths, check out Grossman's record on passes over 20 yards. As of 2006, the NFL started keeping track of Comp/Incomp on long or short passes, in the Play by Play.

Then check out Griese's profile for 2004, at buccaneers.com or 2004 Play by Plays at nfl.com (chicagobears.com doesn't have the info) Neither gives info on Incomplete passes, but both do give info on completed ones. Keep in mind that the most passes over 20 yards that grossman completed in any one game was 5. Griese had one such game against San Diego of 7, and one of 6 vs KC in 2004. The rest were from 1 to 3. That was with a brand new team. So much for his weak arm.

Kind of silly it keeps showing up, with all the 300 yard games he has had. 8 (Eight) in his first 24 games, while grossman has only had 1 in his career (One).

This is not a last place schedule the Bears are playing this year so they will have to play some good teams this year. I'm not surprised by the season so far as a matter of fact it may be a good thing because they may be able to pick up some good draft picks this year and draft a QUARTERBACK or RUNNING BACK. My prediction is 6-10 and out of the playoffs. Next Sunday nights game on prime time will be a disaster. 41-10 Packers.

Whether it's Griese, Grossman or Orton at the controls, I would just like to watch ONE GAME (just ONE) in which it looked like our offensive coordinator had a strategy and was running some plays to set up others for success later in the game.

I agree with A. Navarro that Favre is due for a stinker. Where I differ is that I don't believe it will take place on Sunday Night Football in front of a national audience. He put 31 points on the Chargers with no running attack. We have an entire secondary that's banged up. My hope is Favre is so over confident that he's not as focused as during the first four games.

One final thought. The Packers game will be a great educational oppty for Ron Turner. He will see how how teams successfully use their tight ends as offensive weapons. We can only hope some of what he sees will stick with him, although I won't hold my breath.

hey... I'm the one that made the comment about Turner making stars out of scrubs like Kramer and Graham (though I'm pretty sure Kramer had stronger arm than Griese and Graham had better hands than Berrian and was faster than Muhammad). Whatever his disappointments are this time around, you can't take that away from him.

and.... as I said - I'm as happy as anyone to bash Turner as well. PLENTY of bashing to go around.

I DO have a question for all the Griese lovers (I'm not against Griese, I just happen to be a Rex fan, even in these difficult times. As bad as he's been there is plenty of blame to go around and he happened to be the fall guy)

what do you think will happen EVEN when Griese rediscovers his timing and doesn't make Rex like misreading coverage mistakes?

what do you think will happen when opposing defenses start stacking the line of scrimmage knowing that spaghetti armed Griese can NOT beat them deep?

what do you think will happen to the running back with no moves - Benson (reminds me of Ottis Anderson of 87 Giants) - when they start crowding the line? You can run the ball 50 times a game, it will merely be three yards and out (three if you're lucky) each and every time.

this you can just throw short crossing patterns and dinks and dunk with an occasional pass or two to the TE?

Olsen's deep threat from the TE position has just been nullified with Griese at QB. He doesn't have the arm.

this offense and "managing the offense" will be more painful to watch than the 87 Giants and the Raven SuperBowl champs of recent vintage. Though those teams won the SuperBowl, they were PUTRID to watch on the offensive side of the ball.

and here I thought the Bears were finally beyond this typical Bear offensive crap.

it's going to be painful.

And yes... the offensive line also is NOT playing well. At all.

It's the perfect storm. Crap QBs, plodding RB's, ball dropping and slow WR's and a line that isn't blocking well.

should be fun.

Anyone who thinks Brian Friese is any better than he played Sunday is going to be in for a surprise. That is what you get with him, high completion percentage because of the dump-offs and short passes he throws. He will also throw interceptions at the worst times. He stats were padded in Denver because of receivers like Rod Smith taking his short passes and running for more yardage. 52 passes Sunday against the 31st ranked pass defense and he could only average 1.8 yards per pass attempt when sacks are taken into account. Rex Grossman averaged 2.2, 1.7 and 2.1 in his 3 games. The Bears are not getting anyone better than Rex was. I was also told by someone who was at the game that Mark Bradley was wide open downfield twice and Berrian once and Griese dumped off on those plays.
I would really like to see what Orton could do in there. It wouldn't be any worse than Griese or Grossman and maybe even much better.
Watching the Patriots last night, I wonder how the Bears offense would have been if they had picked up Randy Moss in the offseason. He would have been the perfect reciever for Grossman. Just fire the ball downfield and Randy will catch it, as Tom Brady said.
I think the Bears will win Sundy night, just going against the obvious thinking that the Packers should roll over the Bears. Hope I'm right. Go Bears.

Roman responds: Good post, but I think Griese will be marginally better than he was Sunday. And I agree about going against the obvious. I think Bears might win, too.

BCulz! Let me start out by saying you are a true idiot! I haven't read so much jiber jabber crap in my life. All you idiots that have been calling for Griese don't have the guts to admit you were wrong. You are all a bunch of sheep that have been lead a stray by the media in this town that lives for Quarterback controversies, because it sells newspapers. You all bought into it, all of it! We finally had a young quarterback with the talent to win games instead of managing them, and due to the idiotic fans listening to talk and print media, you blamed him, booed him, killed his confidence and likely have run him out of town! All for what, the good of bills you were sold in Griese. Griese is on his 4th team for a reason, he was run out of 3 other places, never traded, never left for another big offer, but straight out CUT! You got go all the lines from the press about how he was a former pro-bowler, high completion guy, who won't make the stupid mistakes that kill a team like Rex! Well, we see how that worked out didn't week. I hope they stick with this bum for the rest of this season and I hope 3-13 sounds good to you. And as punishment I hope he is the starter here for the next 4 years of his contract. Get ready to the return of the 4-12 records like in the Wanny years. And to hear people actually calling for Orton is ridiculous, you are same fans that were booing him off the field two years ago. That was the worst offensive performance I ever saw, doesn't anyone remember the 5 interception game against the Bengals???? And I read a post where some idiot said "at least Griese didn't fumble!" What game were you watching? HE FUMBLED TWICE. I am sick of hearing he was rusty and that he hasn't played in two years! He played all dang pre-season and don't forget he came in at half time of the Bears v.s. Packers on New Years eve and promply threw two interceptions. He entered games 7 times last season in mop up time! MOP UP TIME BECAUSE Grossman was able to put points on the board in bunches, that allowed us the distance to play back ups! As much as it kills me to watch the Bears lose, this is what we all deserve because we ask for it.

Roman responds: So Rex gets 19 games (and that's after parts of three injury-filled seasons) to establish some consistency. And that's not enough time for some people. And Griese comes out of mothballs after 3 years of inactivity, and all you give him is one stinking game? Please. And in that one game he threw twice as many TDs to receivers than Rex did in the first three this season.

Good post Bogey. I appreciate you stickin by your boy through thick and thin! Your boy left us for dead though. And all of this happens right before Farve's annual visit! He's got to be salivating! He could go for about 500 on us unless we can present a running game or Griese finds his shooting guns. I wouldn't feel as bad if we had our Defense, but we are sitting like a battleship with no navigation or ammo. IMHO Griese STILL outplayed Rex - or possible matched him. No excuses for Griese, he should be ready! I don't want to hear about no rust. He better bring it - or face the axe like Rex!

Yeah JohnF...I know...DaBears are about a year or two behind everything I say....It's frustrating

Culzie's following me again...hey bro..if you don't want the best athletes on the field...ok then...I'm sure you will be on every opposing defenses' Christmas list.....

Remember, I said 7-9 or 6-10

I kinda feel (notatallonebit) for Lovie when he says..."We field the guys who give us the best chance to win".....there is no way he means it....it makes me puke a little...I'm sure you know the puke I'm talking about

you're right about one thing Culzie...I pushed hard for Russ Grimm too....but there is no way Grimm would play the second best players on the team due to contracts....and why he wasn't hired...too A-type for JA...too Hall of Fame as well, I guess

Hitman:

I had a feeling about Grimm too, kinda Ditka-like in his attitude. I had no idea whether he knew anything about X's and O's but he really seemed to have a presence about him.

Maybe I am am living in the past but given the violent nature of football I kinda like the Lombardi, Halas, Ditka, Cowher coach instead of the new vogue of "quiet confidence" coaches like Lovie and Dungy.

It's easy to have quiet confidence when you have Peyton Manning as your quarterback and coordinators with 30 years of pro experience standing next to you.

The last time the Bears were consistently good was when GSH hired Iron Mike....old school....OLD school....

Rebecka why should we read Brad Biggs column, when you just bascially regurgatated the whole thing back into this BLAAAAAAAOG!

RUSS GRIMM IS A SUPERSTAR COACH MIND TRAPPED IN A GRABOWSKI'S BODY. PERFECT FOR CHICAGO.

They didnt hire him because he didnt have a good suit for the interview, but he had no idea he was being considered. Funny. We suck in the board room.

Jbarret or whatever your name is, I suggest you go back and re-read who wrote what, cause I have never backed Griese. Duh...you must have me confused with RJ

Russ Grimm wasn't hired because he wasn't the best candidate for the job. The best candidate was Lovie Smith.

And through three years, Smith has delivered. He has earned his paycheck. He has proven he is an NFL coach capable of leading and building a team.

Grimm? If he was so great, you would think he would have gotten a job over the past three years, seasons which have brought about many coaching changes.

The Steelers didn't even want Grimm as their coach, and if anyone should know, it would be the Steelers.

Good post anonymous,

Finally, a true poster...Bob Griese's son had Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, 1,500 yard rushers, and my only memories of him are BIG INTERCEPTIONS in huge games, could never go to the Super Bowl with allegedly the best offense in football for a number of years. OR EVEN WIN A PLAYOFF GAME. In Tampa, please, we beat him on a big interception.

My man Lovie, caved into you people, and to think I started to agree with Hitman after Dallas(sorry, moment of weakness.) I honestly think some of these people are related to Griese and Orton, because a football fan can see Rex is the best quarterback on the roster...Griese has better numbers because he had a better team, yet Rex has won more playoff games. Give Rex the damn ball!!!!!!! Let him play this season out, and if you want to get rid of him after, fine.

JohnF wrote..
""Maybe I am living in the past but given the violent nature of football I kinda like the Lombardi, Halas, Ditka, Cowher coach""

Yeah, something about 90 year old Buddy Ryan beating 22 year old Kevin Gilbride's ass that puts it in perspective

Yeah....have to say I'm in agreement...a moment of Silence for Russ Grimm..........

and did ya all read..."Benson is gonna get "more" carries!!!"

If you guys think that ragging on Grossman is a new endeavor go back to December 3rd 2006's blog about Rex and see what people have been thinking for about a year now. The names have changed but the intent remains: We want this team to do well and with him it doesn't always happen. Did we have the answers then? Go back and see for yourself. Some people were backing have for a long time and even those have changed their tune. Some of those guys are missed and some were just a tad pessimistic and didn't expect us to get far. And they called themselves BIG BEARS fans. I don't know about that.

I am sick and tired of you guys yap on and on about Grossman this and Grossman that,his time has come and gone,time to move on thats the politics Baby.
We gambled and lost,so quit your whining and get out there and help
Angelo find a new QB ANYWHERE.
On offense:Wolfe,Hester,Peterson,Oden should put muhsin on back up.
Oden is younger and has better eyesight and hands plus speed.Bench
Tuner for Pep Hamilton,he is the only one on the ground seems to know how not to panic.And Lovie?well.....
Quit throwing to Bernard B. for a while.Run those speedters wide right and wide left and let peterson do his thing.
Griese is serviceable,get some TD`s anyway you can.
We are getting nowhere fast with what we are doing now.
After this week we are 4-0 anyway! Don`t think Greenbay is folding
yet.I hate to see Sunday 7:15 come to get light up.

You know what aggravates me about you Roman? You act like Griese has been in freaking IRAQ for the last two years! It's true, he hasn't STARTED a game in two years, but he did play in games and practice over that span! And for those of you morons that say Ron Turner "made" Erik Kramer, look at the facts! Erik Kramer took the Lions to the NFC Championship game two years before he came to the Bears. If you wanna talk about offensive guru's, look no further than Detroit! Mike Martz turned Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, and Jon Kitna from 'Geeks to Chic's'!

Roman responds: You're kidding, right? He attempted a grand total of 32 passes last season. He didn't play the last 10 games of '05 or the first three games this season. If you listen to any player, he'll tell you the speed of a game is nowhere near what it is in practice. No, not Iraq. He's been on the bench and taking snaps with the backups - until now.

keith, though I may be a Rex fan, I would admit he certainly deserved the axing (though personally I would have given him Detroit as his make it or break it moment, after facing 3 top notch defenses to start the year)

Yes, Rex failed and failed badly. I'm not going to make any excuses for him (though I find it funny that many kool aid drinking Bears fan think he singlehandedly lost them the SuperBowl last year. To anyone with any objectivity, Indy was a superior team all around, had the Bears won it would have been a fluke. For one, they couldn't stop the Indy offense)

What I know is that I share the lament of at least some Bears fan who have lived our lifetimes watching mediocre QB's who are called to "manage" games, as the team is supposed to run the ball 50x a game and play superior defense.

Can we finally get a REAL QB in this town? One with a real arm? If not Rex, SOMEONE?

(if I were a fly on the wall, I'd be curious to know how much the coaching staff had pressed Rex (if at all) to restrain his natural gunslinging mentality)

JohnF...come on bro...Grimm was my call...Hitman just copys me!

I read some blogger mention MIKE NORTH ,you mean to tell me that
so so big mouth is still around? They should have let Jiggs finished
Busting his Big mouth,I can`t amagine anybody taking this guy serious,blah,blah,blah Ozzie will finish the job next year.I guess
they need to fill the airways with something.Put him on the OL.

bculz, you really have a problem with me, huh? You sure do have a neat way of debating? Since you can't argue with FACTS, kill the messenger? Instead of throwing out insults, how about discussing the following points this time?

To recapitulate, Griese has had 7 (SEVEN) games in his career with more than 2 Interceptions, in 73 (Seventy Three) Career Starts.

Grossman has had 8 (Eight) games in his career with more than 2 Interceptions, in 27(Twenty seven)Regular Season Career Starts.

So Griese has had one such game in every 10.4 Starts.
Grossman has had one such game in every 3.357 Starts.

In his first 24 games as a Starter, Griese had 1 (One) such game.
In his first 24 Starts, Grossman had 5 (Five)

In 2 of his 7, Griese also had 3 TDs. In 2 more, he had 2 TDs.
Grossman hasn't had 3, or even 2 TDs in ANY of his 8, three Interception games.

Just so you know that Griese isn't the only QB to have had multiple Interceptions in a game:

Cincy @ GB, Oct. 30, 2005
Name Comp/Att TD Int Yards
Favre 27-40-1-5-290.

My Favorite.
Broncos @ GB, Oct. 17, 1999
Favre 7-23-0-3-120.
Griese 19-31-2-1-363

Griese has never had 5 Interceptions in a game, and this was only his 5th game as a Starter in the NFL.

Yes, I noticed that Griese made some pretty dumb mistakes in that game. But I also noticed something else. He was in the game to the end. How many times have you seen Grossman lead a 73 yard TD drive, behind by 10 points, during the last few minutes?

Minny The only points scored by the Offense. Chicago Bears at 04:20
1-10-MIN 33 (4:20) C.Benson right tackle to MIN 32 for 1 yard (P.Williams).
2-9-MIN 32 (3:45) R.Grossman pass short right to J.McKie pushed ob at MIN 24 for >>8 yards 3-1-MIN 24 (3:16) R.Grossman pass incomplete short right to J.McKie (B.Leber).
4-1-MIN 24 (3:12) C.Benson right end for 24 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

NE 2006, Behind by 4.
Chicago Bears at 01:52
1-10-CHI 22 (1:52) R.Grossman pass deep middle intended for R.Davis INTERCEPTED by A.Samuel at NE 38. A.Samuel to NE 37 for -1 yards (R.Davis). NE 22-Samuel >>3rd INT

How about Dallas? Dallas 17 - Chicago 10

6-N.Folk kicks 65 yards from DAL 30 to CHI 5. 23-D.Hester to CHI 16 for 11 yards (29-K.Davis). FUMBLES (29-K.Davis), recovered by CHI-94-B.Ayanbadejo at CHI 16. 94-B.Ayanbadejo to CHI 13 for -3 yards (50-J.Rogers).
1-10-CHI 13 4th quarter >>(12:01)

Bear's D gets a whole 9 seconds rest, then another 15 seconds after this one:
1-10-CHI 48 >>(3:15)

So tell me.. What is Grossman's excuse? He has practiced with the majority of those guys all along. Except for the 4 days before the Lions game and the week before the STL game last year, he has been the ONLY one practicing with them.

Now, not to find fault with Lovie Smith, but I doubt very much that any other coach running a WCO, (T I M I N G Offense) would deny the Backup QB any reps at all with the 1st team. To make matters worse, the coaching staff decided to give the Scout team to Orton last year, and Griese was only allowed a few 7 on 7s with them. Nothing like putting all your eggs in one basket.

So basically, until this year he was getting thrown into games cold. Next to no reps with anyone. So then we read that Griese did as badly in the GB game as Grossman? NOT HARDLY! Grossman threw more passes to the Packers Defense than he did to his oun Teammates. That 75 Yard TD pass from Griese went 43 yards in the air, and at least he kept the Bears from being shut out at home.

Woo-wee Rebecka you really came wid it. After reading all those stats why was Rexy starting? I'm totally with you for now on.

Well Hello bcultz and Rebecka,You too must be lawyers or maybe accountants,maybe bankers?All those precise stats you running here.
Ten year old stats don`t do Da Bears any good today,thats why we are in the mess we are in now. Old out dated scouting system,you think
Angelo personally went to see Grossman play one game?or drove down to little Eastern Illinois to see Toney Romo A kid in his backdoor.
I feel like a fool if I was him....2and half hours away from chicago
and not even a try out!
Now I will get Goofy!.....To fix that old OL I would do what we do in Pop Warner League Use Defensive People on Offense to block and hold the line.
Works on crucial plays pick up 1st downs and score TD`S.
Griese plays 1 game and most of you had a baby,he did more good in
one game than Grossman and Kyle Orton together even with the interceptions.You see he threw TD`s when somebody held onto the ball!After GreenBay we all will see the light,I like to see you explain that slaughter. I can`t believe am saying this.
I`ve lost it. I see why you have resorted to meanless stats.

Chuck, You are really not very good at rewriting history. Too easy to prove your bogus facts are bogus. Griese won the game with Chicago.

"Twice in the Bucs’ 19-7 win over Chicago, Griese COMPLETED a critical third-down pass while basically falling backwards. In both cases, Tampa Bay scored a few plays later. The first of those two throws, in particular, demonstrated a touch that not every quarterback possesses."

"With the Bucs facing a third-and-three at their own 29 late in the first quarter, Griese waited as running back Michael Pittman ran an out-and-up route that isolated him with linebacker Brian Urlacher. Griese could see that the play was forming well, but defensive end Alex Brown nearly blew it up by getting in the quarterback’s face before he was ready to throw. Not willing to give up on the opportunity, Griese threw as he faded back out of Brown’s reach, somehow delivering a perfect spiral down the sideline that hit Pittman in stride, leading to a 46-yard gain."

Then to dispel another myth,
“That’s one of the great throws I have seen this year,” said Gruden. “He throws that ball off of his flat foot, falling backwards and the ball travels 36 yards and is six feet off the ground and hits Pittman at full stride. I don’t know why people don’t know who this guy is now.”

Week 7 Oct 24, 2004 CHI 7 @ TB 19 FINAL
Passing CP/AT YDS TD INT
B. Griese 15/23 163 1 0

This was only his 3rd game with Tampa Bay, 2nd Start. They had an injury depleted Offense that year that was even worse than the Bear's Defense this year. Here are the guys he had to throw the ball to.

Receiving REC YDS TD LG
M. Clayton 6 62 1 14 (Rookie had 87 YPG w/Griese, 42 w/other QBs)
M. Pittman 2 55 0 46
J. Jurevicius 2 21 0 13 (1st game back from injury)
T. Brown 1 13 0 13
M. Alstott 2 8 0 5
W. Heller 1 3 0 3
J. White 1 1 0 1

Griese was the ONLY QB to lead the Bucs to a win in 2004. He had 20 TDs and 12 Interceptions, (1, a Hail Mary in the final seconds of the half. Another a pass that Tim brown should have had, but he just stood there and let the Defender go up for it)

This with a merry go round of Receivers, in and out all year. I give credit to Gruden though. Unlike Lovie Smith, all of Gruden's QBs get time with the 1st team from TC on. Just remember that Griese didn't get time with ANY Bear's Receivers, 1st OR Scout Team, except on the 7 on 7s, the week before the STL game and 4 days before Detroit.

Anyone going 2 years under those circumstances is going to be rusty. Sorry to those of you that think Lovie Smith is a Mastermind, but I think that is just about the most assinine thing I ever heard of, and I was saying the same thing all last year. That Griese still did as well as he did under these circumstances, is remarkable.

Don't think so? Name me one other Backup QB in the History of the NFL that was treated the same way. When they refer to a QB being rusty, they usually mean because they just haven't had much playing time. Everyone assumes, that they at least have a good deal of practice time. Some of it with the 1st Team in the event they have to replace the Starter. Especially considering the Starter's track record....................

All the stats in the last post by Rebecka just reaffirms that Griese is a weak armed QB. He threw for a whopping 155 net yards. He had receivers like Michael Clayton, Tim Brown and Joe Jurevicius and his longest pass of the day went to a running back. And the pass went 36 yards in the air. Not too impressive by NFL standards. If Gruden was so keen on Griese, why did they let the rocket armed veteran go and name the young unproven Simms the starting QB.
Like I said in my other post which I forgot to sign my name to, Griese is what you saw last Sunday, 1.8 yards per pass attempt. He may not throw 3 int's every game, but he doesn't give the Bears a deep threat, which they need to open up the running game and keep the defensive backs from jumping the short routes. I'll bet he throws 2 more int's Sunday night. Give Orton another chance. At least he's more mobile than Griese or Grossman and he has a stronger arm than Griese.

Oh well. It looks like Brian Griese wasn't the end-all be-all solution to our offensive problem. Maybe we should put that other guy in at quarterback. What was his name, Rex Grossman? Yeah, that's the guy. Maybe we should stop putting Hester in at receiver as well; that wasn't working out.

Say Orton like a pirate....AAAAART'N

he should be the starter

Orton Live at the Lambert this Sunday!!!

Rudy, I guess you don't know much about the 2004 Buccaneers. Or about Brian Griese. That throw was impressive because he was falling backward. But also because it was the second time he did that in one game. I saw it and assumed that any fan of the Bears would have also. Of course that is assuming you are a Bears fan, and assuming you are old enough to have watched a game in 2004.

See, I am also assuming that, like me you remember spectacular plays. I was never a Bills fan, but just happened to watch a game when Flutie was the QB. On one pass, he went up in the air, turned around while in mid air and fired a completion. Ditto a bunch of Barry Sanders plays, and a multitude of John Elways plays.

But first of all, try to remember that Griese was up against the Chicago Defense. Then, MC was 6 for 62. (His average w/ the other two QBs was 47 YPG. With Griese it was 87) MP was 2 for 55. (I guess Griese should have thrown the longest pass to a covered Receiver??? ala RG?) JJ was playing in his first game all season, back from injury after missing the last 5 games of 2003 and was not 100%. Dilger, the better TE, was out for the game. That left Alstott, Heller, (the worst TE,) and Tim Brown. For some reason, when Griese went in as QB, Brown went AWOL. I wonder if it had anything to do with 1999 and 2000??? Heh, heh, heh. (Another story)

Secondly, Griese had a 7.85 YPA that year, ( despite the musical chairs he had for Receivers. He also had a game where he completed 7 passes of 20 yards or more and one where he completed 6. The most Grossman completed in any one game was 5. The only one grossman completes a pass to when he is falling backwards, is a member of the opposing Defense.

As just about everyone is aware by now, Gruden did NOT want to lose Griese, but McKay had made such a mess of their Salary Cap, before he snuck away to Atlanta in the middle of the night, that they could not afford the 7 Million he was due if he stayed. They were already 10 Million over to begin with. They asked him to restructure and he said no. I don't blame him.

Maybe you could do a little research before you post?

Fellow Chicago Bear Fans lets salvage this season.
We should support Bob Griese(thats all we have ready)Bob should have played more last year particularly the superbowl second half.
Thats what back ups do.So quit asking for Orton he is not ready,he should be but the bears system is so timid they don`t bring QB`S Up.
Another thing,they should be looking in the SCRAP PILE FOR LINEMEN
AS IN OFFENSE LINEMEN.
Love to see Brian Griese throw for 356yds sunday
Benson run a HUNDRED.
Hester break two or three long ones.Garett Wolfe do 75 on the ground,45 in the air. Greg Olsen(is that better) do 86yds,D. Clark
do 80yds.
Adrian Peterson forgotten man can give you 85yds.
Only if OL show up all game.
I`m out see you guys SUNDAY or MONDAY am.

Rebecka, with all due respect, your research has very little to do with the current state of the Bears. Griese was just awful last week. And whether or not Jon Gruden wanted him or salary cap issues from 3 years ago and all of your other statistics don't equal what the Bears need in a starting quarterback right now.

Yes Rebecka, I am a Bears fan and my Mommy has let me watch the Bears games since 1966. And yes, I do remember spectacular plays from the 41 years I've been watching football, but Griese's 36 yard pass against the Bears is not one of them. Since you like to do so much research, why don't you put together a Brian Griese highlight video and send it to me so I can be enlightened. You seem to be mesmerized and blinded by statistics and excuses for him. Julie B hit the nail on the head, the only thing that matters is what is he going to do right now for the Bears and the answer is not much. He is a weak armed, immobile QB that opposing defenses will have an easy time playing against, especially with the running game not being there. He is not much, if any improvement over Grossman. We better hope he can throw falling down, judging by his 6 sacks last week and his sack totals in '01 and '02 with the Broncos.
Tampa Bay let Griese go because he's an average QB that was making big money.

Hitman:

"Say Orton like a pirate....AAAAART'N"

I definitely wasn't a Grossman fan to begin with. If you'd asked me two years ago who I wanted to be the starter, I would've said AAAAART'N! However, Grossman has proven himself to be a reliable and improvable QB. I think that Daniel Manning should play return man and Hester should be at corner this sunday. We definitely don't need another crutch on this team. Let's see how high we score without him returning.

Most of Griese stats were Rod Smith short pass YAC's.

Fact Find that!

I think it's about time for a positive blog.

LET'S GO FIGHTING ILLINI!

Roman responds: Good call. If they win tomorrow, I'll start one.

Yes! But mostly 07.

Julie, At least I do the research. It would be a lot easier to just post whatever I felt like, regardless of whether there was any truth to it or not, as so many do. For instance:

"Griese was just awful last week"???

Wow! Ever read the Sun Times? "As long as I get practice at one, I'm fine,'' St. Clair said. ''I practiced all week at left tackle, so I'm good. That's not a problem.''

Now he is referring to the Left tackle position. Quite a bit easier than playing QB with a bunch of guys you have had NO actual playing time with, and only 8 days total practice with. You say, well he had mop up? Baloney. When grossman went out, the majority of the 1st teamers went with him.

Not to mention that Griese didn't even get practice with the Scout team last year, except 7 on 7s. Find me one Coach in the NFL who has EVER done a backup QB that way. Just one. (Looked like Smith was so worried about hurting grossman's feelings, or making him feel challenged, that he didn't give a darn what would happen if Griese HAD to go in.

If some of you actully understood football, you would realize that that is a recipe for disaster. I don't care how good a QB is, or even if he has had some time with the the 1st team, going into a game after sitting on the bench all that time is not going to be pretty. Then to ask that guy to attempt the pass 52 times is insane.

The WCO is a timing Offense. Go back and watch the game again. The ball is on its way to Receivers before they get to their position. Kind of difficult if you don't have some time to get used to each other. Not just one guy either. Most of the team.

One of the QBs you said would be a better fit, was McNabb??? Sure he was out with an injury part of last year, but it wasn't like he hadn't had plenty of time with the Eagle's 1st team before that........ So he didn't complete even half of 33 passes, and his RB had 3 times the yards of Green Bays'.

Maybe you could explain why you think he would be a better fit? or any of those other guys you came up with? BTW, McNabb's Career YPA is 6.78. Griese's is 7.05.

bculz gives all the credit to Rod Smith and other assorted Receivers. I wonder how that explains the fact that Griese's Receivers do better with him than they have/do, with other QBS.
Rod Smith Rec Yds Avg TD
2000 DEN 100 1,602 16.0 8 Brian Griese
2001 DEN 113 1,343 11.9 11 Brian Griese
1998 DEN 86 1,222 14.2 6 John Elway
(2001, played all year with injuries to both ankles)

Ed McCaffrey
2000 DEN 101 1,317 13.0 9 Brian Griese
1998 DEN 64 1,053 16.5 10 John Elway
1999 DEN 71 1,018 14.3 7 Brian Griese

Rookie Receivers
2004 Mike Clayton 80 1,193 14.9 7 Brian Griese
2005 Mike Clayton 32 372 11.6 0 Chris Simms
2006 Mike Clayton 33 356 10.8 1 Asst. QBs

Tim Brown was way over the hill and no other Receiver was on the field for more than 10 games. Several for less.

Rookie RBs .......Rush Yds Avg TD
2002 Clinton Portis 273 1508 5.5 15 Brian Griese
2000 Mike Anderson 297 1487 5.0 15 Brian Griese
1999 Olandis Gary 276 1159 4.2 7 (11 games)Brian Griese
1995 Terrell Davis 237 1117 4.7 7 (14 games) John Elway

(No other thousand yard seasons)

2004 Mike Pittman 219 926 4.2 7 (13 games) 7th year Brian Griese
2002 Mike Pittman 241 846 3.5 5 (15 games) 5th year Jake Plummer
2003 Mike Pittman 187 751 4.0 0 (16 games) 6th year Brad Johnson
2006 Mike Pittman 50 245 4.9 1 (16 games)Asst. QBs

I always get a kick out of people who bring up what great Receivers he had. Someone had to get the ball to them for them to be that great.

BTW, regarding the oft stated argument that he was let go by 3 different teams. He was the 8th rated passer in the NFL in 2002. Too bad Grossman wasn't on that team. He would probably have been long gone after the Arizona game. Definately after the Packers game.

Interesting that grossman has had only ONE 300 yard game in his career, but ol, dink and dunk Griese had 8 in the same amount of games and has 17 for his career.

Rebecka, Griese WAS awful last week. If you don't think so, you are entitled to your opinion, but any accomplishments Griese has had in the past didn't factor into MY opinion. Also, I didn't read one word in the Sun Times that indicated very much encouragement from his performance either. I'm guessing most posters on this blog DO understand football, and most of us watch the games without much regard for anything that has happened in the past. I mentioned McNabb out of frustration - mostly with Grossman and knowing that there's not much hope with anyone else on the roster. And actually, I'd still be much happier if he were our starting QB than the current situation. I think he's a more talented athlete with more experience than either Grossman or Griese. Believe me, I'm impressed with the amount of research you do and include in your posts. I neither have the time nor the desire to do the research you do, and don't feel that amount of information is necessary for stating my opinion, which is always the truth.

I wasn't talking about that game, I was talking about the next year, but I noticed Griese was not the QB, but that was not the main part of my post.

As usual, facts can be rewritten to satisfy the user. What is Griese playoff stats? How many playoff victories? What is his SB stats? How great a QB is he in games where playoff inplications arise? Has he had (overall) a better offensive team throughout his career (statwise) than Grossman. How many offensive skill position Pro Bowlers has Griese played with. I don't look at stats(they can be misleading) when I play(and I do play) I don't worry about how well I do statwise unless I rub it in. The main thing is winning championships(division, conference, Superbowl). How many does Griese have? How many does Grossman have? U keep putting up these stats, but myself, and ALL the other Bears bloggers on this post only want to hear one stat....2007 Super Bowl winner. I don't think Griese can do it.

P.S. don't ever compare Griese with Elway. ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!! Elway has 2 SB rings, c'mon girl, put the NFL.com statbook down. Please, I don't care about season stats, What is his postseason stats like. W/L. Girl, get a grip. No team ever wants to be the regular season champion, they all want to be the postseason champ.

Get some stats that prove that Griese is a better postseason QB than Grossman, with career postseason wins, then you can argue Griese is a better QB. Revise that. Talking about bogus arguments. I don't hate Griese, I just do not think he should be starting ahead of Grossman when Rex took the Bears to the SB last year.

Also, that defense (the 2004) version was not as experienced in this scheme as the 2006-2007 versions are.

That post was for Rebecka,

I don't hate you girl, I just want my favorite team to win this year's SB, and I don't think Griese has the playoff experience to do it. Regular season wins do not count in the playoffs, nor do their STATS. Griese was horrible last week, as horrible as Grossman has been all year, that is very true.

In fact Rebecka,

since Griese is a better QB in your estimation, can you please FIND his postseason stats and compare them to Grossman, they you will have many converts.

Julie, You didn't see one word in the ST that indicated encouragement from his performance???? That's odd because you used a quote from Brad Biggs Oct. 2nd article, "Offense tries to patch things up," earlier in this thread. (Last "quote" in the article)

Anyone that didn't see encouragement in his evaluation of Griese, AND understand it, shouldn't be claiming to understand Football.

As to the 'amount' of research I do, most of it is from memory. I don't just hinge my opinion of any QB on 1 (ONE) game. I watched grossman play from 2005 Atlanta on. I used to like McNabb. Right up until the Philly-NE SB. He choked. Plain and simple, which wasn't nearly as bad as his follow up. sniffle, sniffle, sniffle, "I had the flu" ...whine, whine, whine..."we didn't need Owens to get to the SB."

So then the media trounced Terrell Owens for daring to address McNabb in kind. Sorry, but after their respective performances in that SB, TO comes out as the guy who went the extra mile. McNabb laid down and played dead.

No research here. All from memory.

67% OF ALL STATS ARE LIES

When I was a kid we'd say: "first one hit my hand" then we'd hit the johnny-come-lately kid and say" he hit you". That was how we'd instigate a fight. But these two women are really going at it without much instigation. Only in Chicago will you see two women this passionate over sports. You guys are great and I hope you two bury the hatchet because it's just frustration brewing over this team not excelling like you two expect. Maybe Griese will shake off that rust. Honestly, he wasn't as bad as you would expect with a serious layoff like he had. And Ms. Justice is absolutely right about Griese not getting any reps with the starters over the time he's been here. Yeah, Lovie did sooth Rex a great deal but that doesn't matter anymore. Some guys need coddling more than a size twelve salute. You can't blame a guy for trying. But now that the bonus baby is sitting on the dark side of the bench we'll see what kind of fire Griese brings with an extra week at the helm. Looking back at some of those blogs from last year you can actually see that this was coming. We won quite a few games with Rex stinking up the joint and this year we lost a few with Rex stinking up the joint. We're already in the cellar what else do we have to lose. Can't keep blaming a guy for trying. That said, GO BEARS!!

Statistics are no substitute for judgment.
~ Henry ClaY

Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.
~ Evan Esar

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. ~Aaron Levenstein

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. ~EINSTEIN

There are two kinds of statistics, the kind you look up and the kind you make up. ~Rex Stout, Death of a Doxy

A statistical analysis, properly conducted, is a delicate dissection of uncertainties, a surgery of suppositions. ~M.J. Moroney

Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." ~Mark Twain, autobiography, 1904 (but, as yet no actual record of this under Disraeli's authorship)

The theory of probabilities is at bottom nothing but common sense reduced to calculus. ~Laplace, Théorie analytique des probabilités, 1820

I abhor averages. I like the individual case. A man may have six meals one day and none the next, making an average of three meals per day, but that is not a good way to live. ~Louis D. Brandeis

The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic. ~Joe Stalin, comment to Churchill at Potsdam, 1945

I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity. ~George Gallup

GO BEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rebecka has convinced me, Brian Griese is better than John Elway or Donovan McNabb. Statistics don't lie.

Rudy you are a fool, I laughed about 5 min on that one.

Thank you William. I have been trying to find some of the articles where they talked about the fact that Griese wasn't getting any snaps with the 1st team, even in practice and that he also only got 7 on 7s with the Scout team, but so far no luck.
I wish I had put them in my favorites folder because you would be surprised at how many think that is just not true because they do not think Smith could have been that dumb.
BTW, I don't even live in Chicago. Portland, Oregon. Sorry about the fracus but I don't take well to the insinuation that I am merely a stat machine. Doesn't really help my disposition any to have someone tell me my long list of 'reasons', are just flat out wrong, with NOT ONE reason why that is so.
First of all, I watch games over and over. Probably why I remember so many plays.

Incidentally, there is an article by Tom Thayer in today's Daily Herald, Griese needs more help from his receivers Q. "What do they have to do to win this game?" A. They must get assistance from their receivers. Their timing with Brian Griese has to be better this week. There were 21 points left on the field from last week from deflected passes. Usually when you get a deflected pass it's a timing problem. If the pass is a half-step behind Bernard Berrian, it means you're throwing to the pace that you've seen from your receivers in practice. I hope they practiced at a faster pace this week, so the quarterback has the timing he needs. The first Griese interception, it's up to him to put the ball in front of Bernard Berrian in that route, but it comes down to timing. A deflected pass by Berrian led to (the second) interception, and there was a drop by Muhsin Muhammad a play earlier that would've been a first down. There was a drop by John Gilmore on third-and-9 that would have been a first down. These players have to accept the responsibility where they have to play better in order for Griese to perform his job more efficiently. Drops lead to fewer plays and fewer opportunities. Deflected passes lead to interceptions that take you away from opportunities."

Maybe not attempt 52 passes either?

Kind of makes me think someone who would say "He had an awful game," does NOT have even a piece of the picture. He had already attempted 24 passes before the 1st interception at the end of the half. Now for a good share of QBs, that is a game. IMO That he attempted 52 and completed 65.4% of them, UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES is remarkable.

And Chuck, Elway didn't get those rings until he had Terrell Davis. You can't get mad at comparisons because I do remember you got mad when I said that Grossman shouldn't be compared with Favre. Unless you're another Chuck like the one who saves the world for 11 dollars an hour. Just asking to be fair. I just don't see why we have to be mad at someone's opinion. Unless it's a personal attack debate is fine and healthy. Last year I called Ms Justice Rain-girl for her stats but it was a way to say it was cool. It is. You're different and that's what the world need. We, Chicagoans don't quote stats but we are bound to believe what we've seen in the past as a barometer to what we feel. That's why so many of us can be neagative because we have so many teams here and for the most part they don't excel. When a guy believes that we're gonna lose it's usually his doubt because of what he has seen. Sorta like stats. GO BEARS!!!

Rebecka, I've never quoted Brad Biggs in my life. Research it.

Rebecka, I just reread something you wrote earlier and I'm sorry, I just have hard time believing your stats are "all from memory." I respect the fact that you take the time to research your posts, but I don't believe all those numbers are in your head. Unless you are a Griese-stalker of some sort, even then - that's a lot of facts to know off the top of your head about a second-rate, 10-year veteran who has had an average career at best.

Well Julie, where did I say the stats were "ALL from memory? Are you referring to this? "As to the 'amount' of research I do, most of it is from memory."

I don't see 'stats' OR 'all' in there.

Are you insinuating that ALL I do is list number and stats???

I really don't care what your opinion is of Griese. Most of the rest of Chicago loves him right now. That is, all but the few who still have a major crush on grossman. At any rate, the list of QBs you have wanted for Chicago is a pretty good indicator that you do no research on them at all.

Hey WRD,

No I didn't say you shouldn't compare Grossman to Favre, because I have before. I said he reminded me of the first year interception prone Favre, that I used to love to see the Bears beat on before he got his act together. I had hoped Grossman would get his act together. I am not clowning her opinion. I am just saying Griese had the same team Elway won TWO superbowls with, and couldn't even make the playoffs, then to say Griese had better stats than Elway with the same talent is like saying Drew Bledsoe is a better QB than Tom Brady, because he had better stats with the same team. We know where that team went with Brady.

She has a right to her opinion, but to bring up stats to back up your case, when the barometer of success in Pro sports is not stats, but victories and championships, stats don't win games I think she has nice stats(slanted to her argument though), so I slant the one stat to my argument, which is playoff stats. C'est la vie.

I make a little more than 11 dollars an hour, that is why I went back to school to get my advanced degrees. I was the Chuck that was giving Bculz a hard time over Vick with the I'm black with an Irish last name joke.LOL.

Anyway, Roman, if Griese and that defense continue to play like they did Sunday, I will keep my 12-4 prediction, I didn't think they would lose to the Cowboys or Lions, but I also didn't think the Eagles and Broncos (41-3, wow) were so beatable at home this season, but Oakland looks like an intriguing matchup.

New York, ehhhh, Washington will probably be a loss, and they can run the table from there. I can take 10-6 as well.

Finally,

To all the bloggers who say we play a last place schedule, we have been playing a first place schedule for the last 2 years.
(11-5, 13-3, this year, don't count the 11-5 year.) Cannot help it if GB, Det, and Minn. have sucked for the last 2 years.

Chuck, the problem with your argument is, you are giving grossman credit for wins for games he tried his best to lose.

As to the comparison of Elway and Griese, Griese lost Shannon Sharpe and Terrell Davis, Both Elway's biggest weapons, BOTH in the 4th game of his first starting season. Shannon Sharpe until 2004 (Came back to bite them in the Playoffs) and would have been better off if prima donna TD had not went back for a few games in 2000 and 2001. Then, all year there was the switching of the guards, a less effective Defense, etc. But Shanahan's biggest mistake was when he decided to throw the Bank at Dale Carter, and any idiot could have told him that was a major mistake. (You would have to have known the history) The team as a whole hated the guys guts. For good reason. He lasted for 14 games, for a cost of several million for next to no impact on Defense.

So McCaffrey had his best year and 3rd best year with Brian Griese. 2000 and 1999, respectively. Rod Smith had his 2 best years. A new Rookie RB broke Terrell Davis's rookie record for 15 games, playing only 12 games in 1999. Another Rookie RB broke both those guys records in 2000. Of course that couldn't have been because Griese got them the ball?? His career Comp % beats John Elways.

Fast forward to 2004. Mike Pittman had his best year with Griese. Mike Clayton a Rookie Receiver, broke the rookie receiving record. In 10 3/4 games with Griese he averaged 87 yards a game. With the other 2 Bucs QBs, he averaged 47. Ken Dilger had his best season as a Buc, and Will Heller had his best season. Galloway was out for the 1st 7 games, and Jurevicius was out for the 1st 6. Neither was anywhere near 100% when they finally went back in.

In 2000, Griese's team went to the Playoffs. His shoulder was pounded into the turf in the 3rd game @ Oakland and dislocated, but the Broncos won with him anyway. So he was out for the KC game. Frerotte lost it. Griese played, but shouldn't have in the next game. They lost. Somewhere in there, they played Cincy and the Denver Defense allowed some ungodly amount of yards by Corey Dillon. With Griese they won the next 2 games. The 2nd one put him out for the rest of the Season, but not before the Broncos won it.

Again they played the Raiders. Again Griese shoulder was driven into the turf just before the end of the 1st quarter. (You think the Bear's Offense is unable to Pass block?) You would really have had to have seen the 2000 Broncos.

I beg to differ on Brady and Bledsoe. For crying out loud, they won the SB Bradys first year as a starter. Bledsoe threw more Ints than TDs his 1st few years? Brady never has.
This time, his shoulder was completely dislocated, and he had to keep popping it back into the socket all the rest of the game, after being out only 1 possession.

They won with Griese, despite the idiocy of Shanahan.

In the 1st Raider's game Mike Anderson put up close to 200 yards.

In the 2nd, Terrell Davis put up less than 100.

Despite the fact that Griese was hurting,and Anderson was by far the better RB, Shanahan felt he owed it to poor little Terrell to let him play all game. Wouldn't even let Mike Anderson into the game at all.

Now, that Raiders team went 12-4 in 2000 and their first 2 losses were the games with Denver. Denver went to the Playoffs but of course, Griese didn't play. He WAS the major reason they went. Behind Frerotte, they lost.

In 2005, the Bucs behind Griese went 5-1. Behind Simms, 6-4. Who do you think was most responsible for getting them to the Playoffs?

To sum up, no one has any idea what would have been the outcome of either of the Playoff games Griese helped his teams get to. He did take the Wolverines to an undefeated season, and their first share of a National Title in 40 years.

I make it a habit not to talk about things I know nothing about. That the 2002 Broncos, and the 2004 Bucs didn't make it to the Play offs had nothing to do with the play of Brian Griese. Maybe you could do a bit of research on the idiocy on those two teams?

BTW, Favre threw 37 TDs and 37 Ints in his first 31 games???
Grossman has thrown 28 TDs and 34 Ints in his first 27 games???
As to the Bear's beating on Farve until he got his act together, they split the series both of his 1st 2 years????

Note to anyone interested: I had to do some research on SOME of the numbers in here, but the majority are safely locked in my memory bank. :)

Oct. 6th, 10:34 p.m.

I agree with the Dale Carter comment, he was about 2 years past his prime and injury prone when they plucked him. And really, I am just giving you a hard time on the stats, I liked Griese in Denver, but, to paraphrase Julie B., 10 year old stats do not help our cause now.

But an even better argument, which games have I given Grossman credit for, he did play all of last year didn't he? I could care less about how those teams mismanaged(or not) their rosters, and I don't keep stats in my head because there are already enough math formulas there to make a person go sick.... If you are a huge Griese fan, or one of his relatives, fine, my argument has always, and will always be until he does it is....can he win the big playoff games?

People blame Grossman for a lot of the mistakes of this offense, and it all was not his fault offensively, although he did have his share. That is in the past now, Griese is our QB, and he did okay last week, and Grossman has sucked all season.

And with your stats about who led who where, you contadicted yourself.

"Chuck, the problem with your argument is, you are giving grossman credit for wins for games he tried his best to lose. "

Then you say

"In 2000, Griese's team went to the Playoffs. His shoulder was pounded into the turf in the 3rd game @ Oakland and dislocated, but the Broncos won with him anyway. So he was out for the KC game. Frerotte lost it. Griese played, but shouldn't have in the next game. They lost. Somewhere in there, they played Cincy and the Denver Defense allowed some ungodly amount of yards by Corey Dillon. With Griese they won the next 2 games. The 2nd one put him out for the rest of the Season, but not before the Broncos won it."

Also,

"Despite the fact that Griese was hurting,and Anderson was by far the better RB, Shanahan felt he owed it to poor little Terrell to let him play all game. Wouldn't even let Mike Anderson into the game at all.

Now, that Raiders team went 12-4 in 2000 and their first 2 losses were the games with Denver. Denver went to the Playoffs but of course, Griese didn't play. He WAS the major reason they went. Behind Frerotte, they lost.

In 2005, the Bucs behind Griese went 5-1. Behind Simms, 6-4. Who do you think was most responsible for getting them to the Playoffs?

To sum up, no one has any idea what would have been the outcome of either of the Playoff games Griese helped his teams get to."

First you say, you cannot give credit where credit is not due, then you give Griese all the credit for these two seasons.

About Grossman and Favre, 37-37, and 28-34 are similar numbers, both horrible for a franchise QB, my only comment was give him a couple more games, nothing more nothing less. But they didn't, so I've moved on and hope Griese can win it all.

The Tom brady, and Drew Bledsoe comment, there was a tiny part you missed where I said, they both had the SAME TEAM. The tuck rule playoff team. Bledsoe in 2000, Brady in 2001. Brady won a SB with a team Bledsoe couldn't. In Denver, the majority of the team Elway won the SB with was still there when Griese played, and he never led his team to the playoffs, my only comments. When (and I hope when) he leads this Bears team to the playoffs, then we can compare Griese's and Grossman's career in Chicago more accurately, but if he doesn't, then I will say it again, you cannot call Griese a better QB when he has not led any team to the playoffs, or the SB. Be it because of injury, ineffectiveness or whatever, he has NEVER won a playoff game in the NFL.

Finally, believe me Rebecka, the split with GB was like us bashing their head in, because his career record was like 21-4 against us, before we went on this mini run in the past few years. You had the Halloween massacre. Dave "it's a no-brainer" Wanny. He has killed us over the previous 13 years. I would have taken a split any of those years. They abused us and we couldn't say a word about it, not any time, I hated #4, wished he was on my favorite team.

Heyy people!
Hows it going?
Anyways...I'm new here at blogs.suntimes.com so thought I'd introduce myself.
You can call me frank or bluetoof or jigga [url=http://verizontones.freehostia.com/free-ringtones-for-my-lg-on-verizon.html]ringtone[/url] (haha dont ask).
I like playing guitar and umm I am a electrician.
Umm not sure what else to say so.. nice to meet you guys!
I will see you guys around.
peace
frank

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