Which is better deal: Z's or Dye's?

History suggests, billy goat, injury will paint the contract, billy goat, in a negative, billy goat, light....Not cool, RichieZisk

"But the Cubs have just one goal: Win this year"....I've been a Yankees fan for just as long I've loved Da Cubs....Trust me, it's not a bad rule...btw, watch The Bronx is Burning...I miss Thurman all over again

Enter Marc Cuban... my baseball dream will be complete...and also the smartest business decision baseball could make concerning the most popular team in MLB

Cubs/Yankees World Seriesez (plural) would set every money making and ratings record in baseball

and hey, if the Cubs got Richie in the World Series.....maybe someone would watch it this time

I'm torn on the Dye deal...I'm glad they paid him for his prior 2 years when he over-performed. But the fact that they're now paying him when it looks like he's aged 5 years since last September is basically Kenny saying "we ain't got nuthin in the farm system".
It kills me to think that in 3 years, Chris Young might be the best CF in all of baseball and we gave him up for a .500 pitcher in Vasquez...nice one Kenny.

Come ON Modrowski! I write for a blog entitled "Fire Jay Mariotti" and I am a White Sox fan. And even I am siding with Jay Mariotti and the Cubs on this one. You don't think that $91M for Zambrano makes sense in an era of $128 Barry Zitos and $55M Gil Meches? I mean granted, it's a lot per season for Zambrano, but what's your reasoning for it not being a good business deal? Because "history suggests injury will paint the contract in a negative light"? Zambrano has thrown 200+ innings each of the last 4 seasons. He's been as solid a workhorse as they come. There has been no "history" to suggest that he will get injured (though it's obviously a possibility). But I know that isn't what you meant by "history". You meant other guys the Cubs have signed. Think about it. You're saying that Carlos Zambrano, a completely different human being from Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, and the like, will get injured because those guys did. Makes absolutely no sense.

As for Dye, I think it was just a "meh" deal. Dye is a decent offensive player (which is not good as a corner outfielder). .259 EqA this year (those 24 HR are hurt by the .306 OBP) and .268 for his career. I'm not sold on that being worth $11M, especially in the decline stage of his career. But whatever, it's not like he's blocking some hot outfield prospect or something. And he is way better than any of the AAAA outfielders bumming around between AAA and the big leagues for the Sox these days. I just think that they could have spent that money better elsewhere.

Roman responds: You ask for my reasoning, and then you provide it. Yes, Barry Zito - 9-11, 4.88 ERA; Gil Meche 7-11. Yes, very risky business decision. And I agree, meh on the Dye deal.

Had the Cubs had a dismal season, the Sox probably would have went young. I think Dye and Zambrano are keepers. Both players are pivotal pieces for their clubs. Z needs some help. Get two horses in that rotation and look out! Dye just needs his teammates to play like they are capable of playing.

You definitely didn't interpret what I said the way I meant it, Roman. Barry Zito, a decent (as of time of signing), veteran pitcher gets $126M. Gil Meche, a relatively young, so-so pitcher (as of time of signing), got $55M. When deals like this are being made for pitchers that are just decent, and then one of the elite pitchers in baseball gets $91M, it's not something to say "huh...I don't know....sounds risky" about. Yeah, it's risky in the sense that signing any player for that amount is risky, but compared to these bogus contracts we've been seeing lately, it's about as low-risk as they come. You want risky? Turn your head and ask yourself why Alfonso Soriano is making 8-figures for the Cubs for the next 7 years.

And please, no won-loss records to evaluate pitchers please. San Francisco Giants: 15th/16 in the NL in runs scored. Kansas City Royals: 10th/14 in the AL in runs scored. You think that might have an itty-bitty influence on the records of those two pitchers? Adam Eaton is terrible, and he's 9-8. Matt Cain is 5-13, and has an ERA below 4.

Keith sounds like a Northsider more and more every day!!!

IN what context is it a better deal? Player standpoint Z got it better and from a management standpoint the Cubbies got it better. Truth of the matter is that a lot of players got better contracts when they haven't been anywhere as good as Z. But his contract should actually be compared with Buerle's since they are the aces of their teams. Sox got a better hometown discount and still that hasn't given them any extra wins. With a whole team continuing to underachieve it's hard to say that they shored up any potential problems. I can't see how Buerle's games translate as well since they fail to get him enough runs to get him any wins.

The Cubs had no choice. Without Zambrano at the top of that staff, what do they have? There are no special free agents out there that would have cost them less. Anytime you sign a pitcher to a long term deal, you are gambling. But in todays market, what choice do you have. Even Reinsdorf went to 4 years on Buerhle. Something he said he would never do. If you are going to do it, it is better to do it with a 26 year old.

Culzie, what does a Northsider sound like? Told you, I am a Chicago Fan! I will root for any that is in the playoffs! Southside is hurting this year, but just like Arnold in Terminator I..."they'll be back". I have to root for the Cubies, and that is fine with me. But I prognosticate a bad outcome for them without horses to help Z. At least 1 other guy. But that is no different than the Bulls - with no Star or the Bears with Dr. Jeckle at Quarterback. It will all be exciting and entertaining. But its a shame because its there for the taking. Chicago needs to grow a pair...

Zambrano looks pretty solid health wise. If injury does come into play, it'll be injury at the hands of Carlos himself; he's a juiced up ball of self-inflicted wound waiting to happen. As for Dye, he's actually been my favorite as MOST SOLID WHITE SOX PLAYER last 2 1/2 yrs. The best deal should be for the guy who gets paid for slapping Kenny Williams in the back of the head and tells him "One lucky year doesn't a general manager make". If Yoda's not available, I'll be more than happy to oblige at no cost. Now THAT'S a deal!

Honestly..no joking aside...Great Point WRD....that should be the comparison. I didnt comment on this because I wasnt sure they were comparable.

Way to bring Roman back to Apples and Apples!!

Dye is a keeper for the Chicago White Sox and we finally have someone who DID NOT TRY TO BREAK THE BANK! They actually took LESS MONEY! (this is a dig at the white/latino posters) It's Monday Roman, what you expect, if we didn't have controversy in this Blog, it really wouldn't be a BLOG now would it?

Zambrano is worth the money, I think they could have gotten him for a little less money or take a year off the contract, but the main issue I view is the same when Kerry Woods was on FIRE. The Cubs did not get a solid pitching staff around him, and Cubbie Fans were delirious because one guy was pitching up a storm. I just hate to see the same happen to 'Z' and Cubbie Fans cry later he is a bum the way they thrash K.Woods!

Darn it White Sox, at least do not finished in last place! Come on for crying out loud! Going down with the Ship, or at least the 2005 World ChampionSHIP Chicago White sox that is!

Good thing to see Dye appreciated. Case closed. Now for Zambrano....that f@#$er only 'really' pitches for half a season, and is no way a strong enough leader to be a number one pitcher. I'm guessing he'll show up next year 30 pounds heavier as a member of the 'all-ugly' club where is biggest accomplishment is taking the title of ugliest Cub ever from Antonio Alfonseca. Pretty amazing when you got guys like Keith Moreland, Vance Law, and Bobby Dernier to scowl at. They should have traded him to the Yankees for Johnny Damon's hair when they had the chance. Now they are stuck with......well .......Carlos Zambrano. GOGO CUBBBBBBBIES!!

stuckinwisconsin.

You are not smart.

Carlos Zambrano is very, very good.

KeithLifetimeNeverMakesSense - The White Sox strategy is 100% independent of how the Cubs are performing. They play in different leagues. The Sox don't care about them. When the Sox win, fans come to the games. When they lose, they don't. It has nothing to do with the Cubs.

Noles, let's see where the "very,very good" is found. First I will
check this season. hmmmm. 14-9 with a 3.86 ERA. Using simple critical thinking processes, I can certainly remove one of the very's in "very, very good." Quite obviously it would be difficult to state that all pitchers with those numbers would be considered "very,very" good. Inevitably, a cogent[(go ahead look it up in the dictionary-I'll wait)...du-du-dooh-do-doo....back? good] argument must consist of two valid premises.
Now,If I just look at his career statistics: 78-51 with a 3.37 ERA. While his record would be one valid premise to support the claim of being 'very good', his career ERA is simply just 'good'.
Therefore, I have systemically proven your claim "Carlos Zambrano is very,very good" to be fallacious(Take all the time you want to look up that word, as I am through.). Intelligence wins again.

BTW Noles. I did take back my remark about Jason Marquis being equal to Mark Buehrle. Like you requested. So Lay off. I can't remember, have we bickered before? Or do you just follow my posts all the time? Don't 'rant and run' on me.

How do you mean "3.37 career ERA is just good"???? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Look here, and see the beauty of information.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/ERA_active.shtml

Carlos Zambrano's "just good" 3.37 ERA is 10th out of every major league pitcher with 1000 IP, and oh, get this, other than Jake Peavy, HE'S THE ONLY ONE IN THE TOP 27 BELOW THE AGE OF 27. That means he hasn't even hit the ages of his career in which he's supposed to be in his prime. Here are the guys above him

1) Pedro Martinez - Old and injury-prone
2) Roy Oswalt - very, very good, in his prime
3) Greg Maddux - very old
4) Roger Clemens - very, very old
5) Johan Santana - best pitcher in baseball
6) Brandon Webb - very, very good, entering his prime
7) Randy Johnson - really old
8) John Smoltz - very old
9) Jake Peavy - very, very good, before his prime

So to be honest, if I had to select one pitcher in baseball to sign for a long-term deal (I hope you're reading this, Roman!), Zambrano would literally be in the top 4 due to age, continued excellence, and good health record. Any Cubs fans that are even the LEAST bit skeptical about this move being smart are honestly clueless. HE IS TWENTY-SIX YEARS OLD.

And please, don't even give me any BS about won-loss records for pitchers. They're a terrible indicator of how good a pitcher is. To repeat what I said above, Matt Cain (good) = 5-13. Adam Eaton (bad) = 9-8.

Bring it on, stuck, I can't WAIT to here what "informed" things you have to say in reply to me. I hope they're really, REALLY "cogent". Yes, "cogent" is a difficult word, I really don't know what "cogent" means, because I didn't pass my 7th grade vocabulary class.

10th is just good. 1st is very, very good. Common sense. He is getting way too fat to stay healthy. Sniff, Sniff....I smell Wilson Alvarez. You got to trade him when everbody thinks he's worth something.
Now back to my earlier disection. As you might have noticed, I did not even scratch the surface of the word 'good'. One can certainly make an argument that the word 'good' must be associated with consistency in order for it's meaning to have purpose. Therefore, I can even claim that he is not 'good' either. Average, would be a more fitting term to describe a young inconsistent pitcher struggling with his ego.
You must also follow the rules of critical thinking. In order to validate your claim that Adam Eaton is not good, you must also aknowledge that all pitchers with a 9-8 record are not good. However, you instead try to balance the scale with the claim that Matt Cain (5-13) is good. Once again, this would prove fallacious, unless of course you were willing to vindicate................Anthony Young(remember him?).

Noles, stuckinwisconsin isn't worth arguing with. Everybody reading this blog knows who won that argument.

Agreed, Rick. Once I start hearing that Zambrano is just average because he's not "consistent" and that every major league pitcher who is 9-8 is not good, there's no point in trying to convince this guy.

looks like another 'average' performance from Zambrano. Of course, what else would you expect from him. Look at his record
14-10 3.95 era.Very, Very average. Once again I am correct. I win again. Game over. On to the next thread..........thanks for playing Noles.

Dear stuckincheeseland,

I happen to agree with you about Zambrano but also wondered if it requires effort for you to be such a jackass....? It permeates every one of your blogs.

such as???????

you don't have to try to validate yourself by saying you agree with me. Exactly what does that add to your 'jackass' post. Who cares man. I am a free spirit. Peace be with you.

It's not like me, but I can't find fault with either deal. As for Zambrano, this is exactly what I expected and the risk an organization runs by not signing their guy early. Basically it cost them a few million a year by waiting. But Big Z was reasonable and clearly wanted to stay with the Cubbies.

As for my Sox and the Dye deal, this is the only way I could accept resigning Dye. No way was I interested in a deal resembling Buehrle's at all. I am surprised he actually signed for so little though. Maybe behind the scenes in MLB circles he did not possess the marketability that fans thought he had. I was convinced that despite his injuries and poor stary to 2007 that he'd still get a 4 year deal somewhere for upwards of 55 million. This is obviously way easier to accept for the Sox at 2 years + an option at less dollars. I think the Sox really needed to do this given the state of their outfield this upcoming offseason.

Something worth noting is that both Dye and Buerhle resigned with pretty significant hometown discounts. And in both situations, there were whispers of behing-the-scenes discussions between Kenny and Dye/Beurhle about what the Sox were planning to do in the offseason. Both players were excited and signed on the dotted line so I am hoping Kenny is working on something pretty big. Not sure what that might be but it better at least mean a significant upgrade at CF and a new face of some kind at SS.