It's been interesting observing the sports world's perception of crime and punishment. From Tank Johnson to Barry Bonds (remember, I said "perception") to Michael Vick and now Jamar Smith. Even the juxtaposition of the cases is interesting.
We're all reading grisly details about dogfighting, and then here comes Smith's penalty. Smith will redshirt this season as a type of suspension for driving drunk, leaving an accident and believing he was leaving a teammate for dead.Does his punishment fit the crime?
I think he'll be the first convicted felon to play Big Ten basketball when he returns. And to be honest, I'm not that riled up about it.
Leaving the scene is what gets me.
I still think there is a bit of an Intent issue here. But, leaving the scene is such a gut reaction, that its hard to put yourself in someones shoes. I think they got this one right.
Smith's sentence is pretty much typical for a first time DUI conviction. I woud also guess that his attorney fees were upwards of $5,000. Not mentioned in the article was if his driving privilages were suspended or not. It is typical for them to be suspended for 6 months to a year with the exception of being allowed to drive back and forth to work with a restricted license.
The bigger question is will Jamar learn anything from all of this?
Accountability or lack of it starts way before the professional level. Our whole approach as a nation, seeing superior athletes as so special they have different rules than the rest of us, needs to be changed.We need to start in grade school and be consistent all the way up.Even in high school it seemed the honor code pledges we made only applied to the average or lower players. The star jocks were always given a second chance. Obviously,on the pro level, the money factor exacerbates the problem.
To answer your question,no!!Much more severe punishment was definitely in order.
Paul I understand your post. Those who do wrong should be punished. But ALL of those who do wrong. I believe in second chances, especially for young people. I know personally that a person can turn it around.
Let me get this straight...he didn't call for help for his friend?...just left him there? Well hopefully some guys will get together and pound him into submission for leaving a friend for dead...
I think I remember this story...isn't he the one with the religious background? Didn't he have an uncle or relative who's a pastor?...Defending Jamar Smith in the press? Wow...."Quick!!! Over here!!!!....Duck behind this Bible!!!"
Anyways....That's really the only lesson that needs to be taught here..he needs his ass beat for being such a puss..the DUI was a mistake anybody coulda made
Safe to say it won't be too hard to heckle this kid while he's on the court playing....Go Hoosiers!!!
Roman sez: "We're all reading grisly details about dogfighting, and then here comes Smith's penalty. Smith will redshirt this season as a type of suspension for driving drunk, leaving an accident and believing he was leaving a teammate for dead.Does his punishment fit the crime?
I think he'll be the first convicted felon to play Big Ten basketball when he returns. And to be honest, I'm not that riled up about it."
Roman, Roman, Roman ... I don't even know where to begin pounding on you about this one.
In another one of your blogs, you admonished a contributor for expressing himself inappropriately; although his mild use of profanity was veiled in symbols that left at least something to the imagination.
But you're not all that riled up about the prospect of a guy playing basketball for a Big Ten university after driving drunk while being under age, crashing his car, fleeing the scene of the accident, and then running into his dorm room to fabricate a story, leaving his friend for dead without so much as checking his pulse or dialing 911?
What Vick did pales in comparrison, and IMHO Vick should never be allowed to play professionally again.
Roman responds: I'm not arguing. Read my entry again. I'm observing the reaction to the sequence of events. The latest Smith news didn't register a blip on the radar, and I found myself sharing that mindset. When it happened, it was different, but now it's sharing headline with the Vick stuff and it's eclipsed. It shows how the immediacy of an event is the most important criteria. I wonder if in a few months, the Vick stuff also will be eclipsed and forgotten - to a degree.
Paul sez: "To answer your question,no!! Much more severe punishment was definitely in order."
Not according to Roman.
He doesn't seem to have a problem with this cretin getting back on the basket ball court; even after having left his friend for dead, due to the direct result of his own criminal negligence.
I wouldn't want this guy as a team mate, and I certainly wouldn't want him as a friend ... especially if he's driving.
Roman I agree. Since they have another pinata to beat on this news is not as hot; and that is good for Jamar. Like a misdirection of front page material so to speak. What Jamar did was immature, but he is young and naive so I hope he wises up.
I made a very bad mistake when I was 16. Got in some HUGE trouble. I remember the judge telling me to stay out of trouble and I never got in trouble again. When I was doing what I did - all I could think of was that day and moment - when so-called friends were egging me on. Most young people don't think about tomorrow or in terms of the future. Those are things that responsible mature adults do. Young folks are self-absorbed and shielded from all the trouble around them. Nothing reaches them until its them, their family member, or their social click.
I got a second chance and I would be a major hypocrit to come after another young person who made a mistake. And I was the average smug arrogant joker who was popular, had good grades and a bright future. I was humbled. I never looked at myself the same and neither did many of my so-called friends. I lived with a sword of damocles dangling over my head and so will Jamar. To this day I trully wonder if it helped me. It gave me focus and I dropped all of those losers who bailed on me when I TRULY needed a friend.
I think his punishment was fair. I think his big mistake was drinking irresponsibly. If you take that away, the rest goes away. The decision to leave his friend for dead is horribly disturbing, but it was likely a result of an alcohol and panic addled brain and not a true reflection of his character. His young age leads me to give him the benefit of the doubt and a second chance. Missing an entire season is a huge blow to a young athlete. It will give him plenty of time to reflect on his mistakes and hopefully begin to make better decisions.
Keith, I am not opposed to second chances. I doubt if any one of us has not been given several of those for various offenses. My point is that our society operates on inconsistent standards when dealing with exceptional athletes,and then those athletes are led to believe the rules do not apply to them. We also operate on inconsistent standards regarding ethnic goups and women, and that too has deleterious effects. I do think things are getting better in all of these categories ( look at women's athletics ),but unfortunately very slowly.
Anne sez: "I think his punishment was fair. I think his big mistake was drinking irresponsibly. If you take that away, the rest goes away. The decision to leave his friend for dead is horribly disturbing, but it was likely a result of an alcohol and panic addled brain and not a true reflection of his character. His young age leads me to give him the benefit of the doubt and a second chance."
Leaving his friend for dead is "disturbing"?
The only thing his "young age" tells me is that after doing somthing like this, he'll probably grow up to be an even bigger miscreant than he already is. (re: Michael Vick)
Since the Micheal Vick Blog Blew Up, I will put this statement here instead:
Aggression & Michael Vick & ALL Men in General
Please Read the book ‘Lord of the Flies’ – just read it! If you have already, than understanding the logic behind this post is simpler. Maybe some will begin to understand what this incident and other acts of aggression are really about.
Aggression, what exactly is it? It is behavior against another that intentionally inflicts harm, BUT this is a limited description.
Why do Americans, especially men have such aggressive natures? The alpha-beta male syndrome is dominance in majority of war like countries that boast of such a character trait. Just because we do not have constant civil uprisings in America in the manner of Africa, the Middle East or South America does not mean the psychological abnormality do not exist here. Who buys majority of the tickets and owns the teams which other individuals play own? It would be Europeans who buy most of the seats or have the PL licenses or the corporate private suite to watch games. Who are majority of the players in certain sports beside sport of hockey, golf and tennis? They would be people of ethnic backgrounds not directly from Europe unless through the centuries of miscegenation from unfavorable historical human interaction of this country. Keep Thinking Aggressive Behavior!
The reason I asked what aggression is because Americans behave like they do not show it towards one another each and every day. WE LOVE to view our sports heroes and teams as more aggressive than the opponent. All we have to do is read the posts and watch the testosterone flying around in this blog until a couple of ladies step in, and let some high-stepping estrogen flow as well. I am quite surprised some of the ladies have swung with the fearless might of a XENA warrior caricature. But I like it!
We have Road Rage and Roid Rage! We have Domestic Abuse and Child Abuse! WHO ARE THE PERPETRATORS OF THESE ACTIONS MOSTLY? Men in general!
The Main Point is a number of different processes trigger any particular aggressive act. Deeper analysis is needed to understand why a particular individual behave in a certain way is essential for an appropriate conclusion to this behavior. Too many people have harped about HOW Michael Vick has all this money, had it made, the face of the NFL, highest paid play as I have read from some of the post and become brain-locked when discerning his alleged behavior or associates. I will never forget Steve McMichael making this comment when the 1985 Bears was Hot! His statement was simple but profound. The sportscaster asked if not playing football what would he be doing? He stated honestly, “Hell, I might be locked up somewhere!” He went on to say, “If it was not for the NFL where guys can release that type of aggression fans witness on the field every Sunday, most guys would be in jail”
In other words, we want the male species to be aggressive but not too aggressive. That is no different than Whites telling Black men, they are too aggressive on a daily basis. Before 1965 what were White males doing?
Moving on do not get stuck on pre-1965!
These are some of the sequences which are displayed in aggression:
Predatory Aggression: our motivated attack behaviors. This aggression is directed to natural prey and is deeply rooted in our ancestors hunting behavior. Today it can be seen in the behavior of normal individuals as hunting. Such an individual may not have moral qualms with seriously injuring or even killing others. What is normal about sitting in a tree or on the ground in a hunting blind? We do not hunt and kill our food any more, but the aggressive nature is still there, and those who participate in it consider it normal. Sitting for hours to kill Bambi with a High-Power Rifle is not hunting! But then again Black people do not make the rules.
Inter-male Aggression: physical violence or submissive behavior displayed by males towards each other. When aggressive individuals are placed into an environment that fosters aggression via constant media bias, violence may be increased.
--How about if putting on a helmet and pads and knocking the crap out each other every Sunday and during weekly practices do not bring out an aggressive nature. But I guess they are to turn it on and turn it off as if a light switch. DO NOT BELIEVE THE HYPE!
Instrumental Aggression: aggressive behavior displayed because it resulted in a reward. That reward could be monetary (no matter how large or small), Pats on the backs from the other people in the crowd about ‘How a person has the toughest dog(s), for example. The variables are too numerous to list. Too much human aggression is related to this, but we gloss over it as though it is normal. Do you think any boxing promoter or trainer does not get a thrill out of watching the fight, and become jubilant when their fighter wins? THEIR FIGHTER has now become less human, but an aggressive fighting machine regardless of boxing rules. It is only when seeing the blood stained face of the fighter and their lack will to continue is when the towel or the fight is stopped, even though the fighter losing badly wants to continue.
Regardless of the cruelty Michael Vick put upon the dogs, he had the sense to euthanize them. What did you expect him to do, buy the type of drugs the government uses to execute human beings for heinous crimes perpetrated upon another human? I am not taking up for the man, I am explaining the scenario. Remember this government has lied and sent young men and women to fight a war which is created upon falsehoods, but why is the murderous bastard of a president not JAILED! I guess a lot of you got a kick out of watching Saddam Hussein be murdered in a ghoulishly manner. I am glad I did not seek the video out, I might be acting in a aggressive manner towards other humans.
Also, how in the hell Senator Robert Byrd cries in the House of Congress when he belong to an organization which had or still pops up every so often with its hatred against EVERYONE? Robert Byrd’s Participation in the Ku Klux Klan
In 1942, 24-year-old Byrd joined the Ku Klux Klan in Matoaka, West Virginia, where he witnessed the madness of a people in his childhood. He was unanimously elected Exalted Cyclops, or leader, of his local chapter.
Robert Byrd commented on the 1945 controversy about racially integrating the military. Byrd, when he was 28 years old, wrote to segregationist Senator Theodore Bilbo, of Mississippi, vowing never to serve in such a military: Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds. He had earlier written Bilbo "I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side"
This is why Black people defend Vick. It is not because they do not love dogs and condone his acts; it is the historical demagogue of behavior by the very people attacking him.
If Michael Vick or any Black person attains the wealth he has, but still has the aggression which came with how they acquired this wealth, DO YOU REALLY EXPECT THEM TO BE Clark Kent or can I say Barack Obama? We were never allowed to fully participate in the American social fabric without being an AFRICAN FIRST living in AMERICA! We try to be good Americans, but there is a power structure which does not allow full participation unless leaving all cultural aspects of you behind. White people can be white people in Amereica, Black people have to stop being themselves to appease white people feelings.
We are not cruel people, but a people who have had cruelness thrust upon us, but never the mental help to transition from a despised people to fully functional people within OUR OWN COMMUNITIES! It seems we ALWAYS leave the community to become productive of a larger social system which really does not want us unless we behave a certain way, and when not all the excessive and over the top expletives are thrown our way.
MICHEAL VICK thought he could feel comfortable with people who he grew up with. I am tired of Whites, Latinos, Middle-Easterners, Asians, and the likes thinking they KNOW HOW WE should live and behave!
Has it done any good since 1865, when it should have been at least 1776? Nobody cares and we know it; maybe that is why his aggression was uncaring to dogs? I do not know, but I do know he is NOT a MONSTER!
All Michael Vick needed was a Jim Brown, Gayle Sayers, Alan Page and other Black men who made the transition, but remain their identity while living in a larger cultural society! They are BLACK MEN! If you do not have anyone to pull you away from a previous surrounding, why should you leave when no one wants you in their company anyway? Get beyond the FACE OF FOOTBALL! Every damn body is not going to be the likeable Ernie Banks, Walter Payton and Michael Jordan! Matter of fact, didn’t Walter Payton have a shooting range in his house? Why? To Relieve the Aggression!
One last point or two: Who in the hell thinks horse racing, dog racing is NOT a CRUEL sport? Just because the media SHOW the horses and greyhounds being groomed and well feed does not mean the animal is not being treated cruelly when forced into a stable, then into a confined stall and FORCED TO RUN AS FAST AS IT CAN, and possibilities of broken legs happens.
Review the link:
http://www.fund4horses.org/info.php?id=754
DO NOT hand me the crap about cruelty to dogs! Especially when Whites are willing to bet on them racing!
Who are the hypocrites screaming for Mr. Vick’s head when sitting idly by watching even homeless Americans die from starvation?
Review the links:
http://www.sheppardsoftware.com/content/animals/animals/breeds/dogtopics/dog_racing.htm
http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/running_for_their_lives_the_realities_of_greyhound_racing/greyhound_racing_facts.html
Last point: I read a book, but forgot the title, but a passage in it went like this. People were visiting a zoo and were looking at all the caged animals, but at one point they came upon a sign when leaving. It simply read: WHAT IS THE MOST DANGEROUS ANIMAL ON THE PLANET? And below it was a mirror!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-MOST-DANGEROUS-ANIMAL-IN-THE-WORLD-MAN_W0QQitemZ140115195704QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
Great post Douglas.
Don't they send a lot of the horses to the factory after their careers are done??
Do they ask the horses and dogs do they want to race? Seems pretty brutal to me.
Roman, I think Douglas's and my societal focuses ( "foci' for you Latin afficianados )are probably inappropriate for a sports blog, but you kind of forced us that way with your "crime and punishment" scenario. At least I was more concise than Douglas, but some of his points are certainly valid.
Chuck,if they asked those horses and dogs, how would they answer? By e-mail? At least we don't eat either one ( at least knowingly , and I honestly believe that many horses and dogs would indeed opt to race if given a choice. Lots of them love to run for the sheer joy and exhilaration of it.
Mr. Manter, are you just shooting from the lip? I am not poking at you, but your caustic put-down of Chuck's thoughts does not make sense? He asked a question and you do not give an answer. You bludgeon the gentleman, but with no facts. Roman gives us an opportunity to speak on various issues though this is a sports blog. He does not have to, so why not take the opportunity to enlighten another individual?
If Chuck asks are the animals being forced, why do you in turn state “I HONESTLY BELIEVE THEY LOVE TO RUN FOR THE SHEER JOY OF EXHILARATION?”
Animals do what we train them to do. Think Sea World or the people with a pot belly pig living in apartments….* my goodness*…., do you think dolphins, sharks and walruses honestly like performing for crowds? No, they have been captured and trained to do what they do. If they had the free will maybe they would come ashore, take us out to sea and flip our dumb butts around in the air in the water, or maybe take us to the bottom of the ocean to see how long we can hold our breath before realizing “OOPS, we can’t take them down that far!” Would you like to be toss around from dolphin to shark to whale and repeated until THEY are tired of playing with you? It is a silly question but think of what we force animails to do to entertain us.
Mr. Manter, review the link:
Be sure to read the third paragraph on this site.
http://science.jrank.org/pages/3385/Horses.html
Read the first and third paragraph carefully of the link below
http://www.sepeonline.net/_content/Education.php?language=english
I honestly believe that many horses and dogs would indeed opt to race if given a choice. Lots of them love to run for the sheer joy and exhilaration of it.
Posted by: Paul Manter | August 27, 2007 11:34 AM
A animal grazing is not the same as an animal being forced to run as fast as it can. Also, if putting a stick or carrot in front of Rover or Mr. Ed as an incentive to chase it, that is forced behavior induced by outside forces; namely homo sapiens. That is not the same as running fast to get away for survival from another FOUR-LEGGED animal!!
Take a guess on how information on dog books is divided? Majority fall under two categories. Dog Training Books or Dog Story Books; which do you think are mostly used to FORCED DOGS to RUN! Quit thinking you have answers to animals you might deem lesser than you. I know I do not have them. I am fallible and understand it, do you?
Chuck, it is getting better, but by how much I do not know. Here is a link to check out:
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=22249
Review the link: Notice two are in the state of Texas where George Bush is from, and look here we got our own right here in the state of Illinois!
It does not matter what country, but this is what human beings do: Review the link below
http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/dog.html
I must have struck a nerve or two. Actually I was trying to inject a bit of humor into a subject that had gotten a bit pretentiously serious.Even so,I have no doubt that dogs and horses do indeed often run for the sheer joy of it and not because they have been trained or bred to do so.Of course there is Pavlovian conditioning going on, regarding both animals and people, but there are also insticts, racial memory,genetic carryover, etc.
NOTICE how you guys reacted to Jamar. Think he deserves what the Senator got? Or does the Senator deserve what yall want for JAMAR?
The Chappaquiddick incident refers to the circumstances surrounding the 1969 death of Mary Jo Kopechne, a campaign worker for Senator Kennedy. Kopechne was killed when the Senator drove his mother's car off of Dike bridge and into a channel after a party at Chappaquiddick Island, Martha's Vineyard. Kennedy entered a plea of guilty to a charge of leaving the scene of an accident and received a suspended sentence of two months in jail.
PLEASE RESPOND ABOUT HOW REPULSED YOU ARE.... PLEASE...
Roman responds: Keith, people have been writing about how repulsed they are for decades since it happened.
Douglas GREAT POST! And great points about how we REALLY feel about animals. I like Tim Little's points also. We are a bunch of hypocrits. I love that mirror at the Zoo line! Americans are the best and worst humans on the planet. There is a small segment of sincere spiritual loving people that are the light of this world. And then there are the rich, aggressive, wasteful, smug, spoiled rotten majority that are like a cancer to the planet.
But after all the smoke clears, Michael Vick has to do what he did the other day - that is look in the mirror and grow up. A lot of the outrage also comes from the waste of the opportunity he had. He had a chance to make history. What a waste.
Smith's punishment from the court is typical for a 1st time offender, no breaks there. I do believe he got a break from Weber and the university by not being kicked off the team. However, do we really want to yank his scholarship and send this young man in a down hill spiral? I don't, that's why I think his one year off is adequate punishment from the university. I just hope there are provisions that require him to stay on track with completing his degree, attend class regularly and maintain a certain gpa. If this is done, I think the university will have turned a negative situation into a positive and aided one of their athletes in a time of need.
Also, lets face it, athletes do get special treatment, always have and always will. DON'T HATE THE PLAYER, HATE THE GAME.
wow :-)
its very interesting point of view.
Nice post.
realy good post
thank you ;)