Nocioni is in the fold

Nope. I loved Noch before he got hurt. He is still a good player, but not the difference maker he was 2 years ago. This also indicates that one of the core will not be here next year for sure. Might be good news in disguise...

I like Noc'. I like our whole team... check that the whole organization. I think our team is built right, coached well, and supported by the fans. We are legitimate contenders right now, and anyone who disagrees is a 'hater. We are young, hungry and humble.

We're going to block the most shots in the history of the NBA next season, by the way.

I just read the "Curse of the SuperBowl Loser" article by you-know-who, and it was condescending, rude, patronizing, smug, smarmy, wrong, offensive and out of place in Chicago. Roman, I know you won't print this and it's misplaced, but can you at least agree with me that Jay doesn't like Chicagoans and should leave? That article actually hurt my feelings. I've never read one optimistic thing from the guy. He's insulting. Ask Charles Barkley.

And you, on the other hand, do a great job.

WOLVERINES!!!!!!!!!

I like it. I hope he takes it to the basket more like he did against Washington Wizards in the 05 playoffs. He started to sense he was unstoppable. He could be all around better than Artest in a couple more years, with less attitude and more hustle.

Oh yeah...we have locked up yet another "nice" player for 5 years. Hinrich was last year, and Deng and Gordon get their extensions this coming year.
Lots of "nice" players - unfortunately that doesn't get you much more than conference semi's with this current cast.

in a word......No. The should package Duhon, Noah, Sweetney and Hinrich or Nocioni together to get Kevin Garnett.

$7.5 mil a year for the next 5. Probably back end loaded so we can dump him in 3 and let someone else pay for him. He is a winner, and I like the Argentinian style of scraping and hustling. Hes a mini Bill Laimbeer, Plus, Guys that can create their own points are hard to find. He gets points outside of the offense, and lets not forget he lead the league in 3pt % most of the year. (can you hear the "around the horn" sound of pts scoring?)Anyways...good player, better to have him than to play against him. Cheap shots and taking charges to boot!

I like Nocioni a lot and he was the biggest reason that they did not need Sanjaya Noah.
What was the point of picking Noah if you were going to keep Nocioni? You really don't need both of them. This just highlights what a bad pick Sanjaya Noah really was.

I love him.

He's a coaches dream; someone who isn't afraid of scraping his elbows and knees on the floor, diving for loose balls.

He plays with a passion that isn't driven by endorsment opportunities. This man just flat out loves the game.

He'll never be an All Star, but then agan ... you'll never win a championship without at least one guy like Andres.

Great signing!

Money just does not exist to keep everybody. Thats the reason the Pistons lost Ben Wallace, and subsequently lost to Cleveland this year. They laughed at Ben Wallace every time we played them, but Big Ben had the last laugh...all the way to the bank. Nocioni excepted a fair contract for his services. He is a scrum guy that when healthy can be a momentum changer. I like his heart and craftiness, but alas, he is just too short. That injury took away his speed and he just looked terrible in the playoffs this year. Noch is a winner and can play hard-nosed championship ball. He is just too short and not a gifted athlete. One series he will be exactly what we need, and the next a total non-factor. But a great weapon to have on your bench.

Philtration is right, with Noch in the fold we didn't need a person like Noah, but if Noah plays with the heart of Noch, we will have greatly improved with length and athleticism and can afford to move Noch. The game will always come down to the fundamentals which the Bulls are great at, but you have to have the personnell to execute, and that means long athletes. EVEN SCOTT SKILES said the Bulls were not good enough to win if they did not play at their highest level every night. ALL of the Bulls starters are undersized at their positions (look like a team of john crotty's). They play with tenacity and grit thats custom built for the long grueling season but that only punches your ticket to the dance. Once you are in the PLAYOFFS, it comes down to matchups and the skill and size to execute. Athletes turn their games all the way up and focus in. They get downright nasty and they are nothing like the team you outhustled during the regular season. And you have to counter with athletes who are not hoping and praying they have a bad series or wilt under the pressure. Its unfair to ask a team that is overmatched at every position to prevail. There are some people that love to see Rocky prevailing against overwhelming odds. And there are others that like the satisfying feeling of watching a young Cassius Clay take apart his oppenents with precision, flair and beauty. The difference between the two is that one would NEVER beat the other no matter HOW much we could identify with him. This isn't pro's vs. joes!

I am very happy that they kept Nocioni. He is my favorite player in Chicago right now. He has the killer instinct that any good team needs. You can see that quality by the fact that he actually raises his game in the playoffs, where others fade in the spotlight.

My main concern is that the Bulls appear to be creating a logjam at the forward position. Noce can play bot spots, but the Bulls also have Deng, Tyrus and Noah. There are 4 forwards to play 2 spots. I would like to see Nocioni play 28 - 30 minutes a night, but will that come at the expense of Deng or the development of Tyrus. I just hope that skiles can find enought time for him in the rotation.

My ideal 5 on the floor would be Thabo, Kirk, Tyrus, Deng and Noce for stretches. Tremendous speed, athleticism and defense. Then when you need to go big, bring back Wallace or Noah when he is ready.

just because Noce has agreed to a new contract with the bulls doesn't mean he won't be traded. what it does mean is that if he becomes part of any trade now the Bulls won't have to give up as much with him as they would have before. I like Noce and would hate seeing him play against the Bulls but wasn't that the way most Bulls fans felt when Oakley was traded for Cartwright? I think Pax ia shrewder than some give him credit for and believe he has some things up his sleeve that may shock a few people yet.

I'm sure the rest of the NBA is shaking in their boots. Until this teams gets a player that can take over in crunch time, they will NEVER see another NBA title. It's that SIMPLE.

Rocky is a good anology. I just remember the feeling we had we when signed Cart, or Rodman, it was like..thats the final peice. Now we should win every game. It may never happen again, but there was no question in my mind going into every game, that we were going to win. Barring the perfect game from the other team.

I just dont have that feeling yet.

When Memphis started sniffing around Nocioni Pax said that he wouldn't let a player go for nothing. My guess is that he re-signed Chapu for trade purposes down the road. If not Andres himself, then someone else. When he was healthy, Nocioni was the Bulls' best player in high-pressure situations (see playoffs 2006, when he averaged 22 ppg, 9 rpg, shot 56% from the field, 48% threes, playing 38 mpg. By the way, that was just one year ago, Keith.)

It's funny that a guy whose height-challenged team asks him to play out of position - which he does admirably - subsequently gets branded as "too short." Now that the team has some tall guys, do you think he's gonna be needed to play PF on a nightly basis? He's a three-point shooter/drive-to-the-basket player, not a post-up guy, folks. He's more than tall enough to do what he does best. Also, there seems to be a consensus here that Chapu's injury is permanent. Has no one ever recovered from Plantar Fascitis? I know it's serious, but he will have had a lot of time off, and likely lots of medical treatment. Let's not be alarmist here.

Would the negative folks here rather have seen the Bulls lose their best bench player and a potentially tradeable asset (not to mention a hard-working, gets-under-your-skin type of guy) for nothing?

Great deal for Noce and the Bulls. I can see Deng doing a little of the 2 guard depending on the situation and Noah playing center in relief of Wallace. I still think we need to get Gordon to agree to sixth man or trade him for a Lee ( Isiah would love Ben and give us Lee and next year's number one!?!?!?!?!? LOL!!!!) or Collison. We would then become very big, young and fast.

Where to begin?
I guess I'll take the clueless in psoting order.

Keith, how in the hell do you know what Nocioni will be like next year? I take it you are assuming that he isn't going to recover from his foot problem. Are you a chiropodist or podiatrist? Whatever, you obviously think you know a lot more about the situation than Paxson.

Bryant, wake up and quit living in fantasyland. Duhon, Noah and Hinrich or Nocioni would not get Garnett. He IS NOT GOING TO BE A BULL! Comprehende?

JC, if you aren't willing to be patient at least another year or two for all the Bulls "nice" players to A.)finish developing - Gordon and Hinrich - or B.)to start getting comfortable with more significant roles - Thomas and Sefolosha - and C.) get a year under his belt - Noah, then I suggest that you start rooting for the only consistent championship team since the Bulls dynasty, San Antonio.

And, finally, the completely clueless, who think that Noah and Nocioni are, IN ANY WAY, interchangeable parts.

The only thing they appear to have in common is their fierce competitiveness, energy and joy of playing the game. There is not a single part of either's offensive game that is duplicated.

Nocioni is a SF who actually CAN play PF. Noah is a PF who can play center against most teams.

Good move on the organizations behalf, especially with Noah's rotator cuff issues, he'll be that much needed energizer. I think he'll be ready for the 07-08 season, If not he can be used as trade bait for Gasol.

Hey Tim I like Pax and I am sure you can appreciate his methodical, chess-like precision. But he seems to just keep doing just enough to keep the masses content (like a utilities stock). To his credit, Chicago just cannot seem to sign any free agents. Its kinda weird. Noone wants to play here. I thought it was Krause and his cheapness, but it might just be Chicago. After Ben Wallace, I cannot remember another player that has played in an allstar game to come to Chicago, even native sons like Antoine Walker. Its way past time for Pax to make another splash. He's killing me with the suspense...go ahead and make your big move Pax.

MG is speaking my language! Guess its that patience thing again. But I feel like William Wallace in Braveheart trying to convince the Lords that now is the time.

Noce is a good player but the problem in Chicago is that there are a lot of good players and no great ones. Add to that the fact that the talent mix is way off (way to many forwards and no real centers) and there is no way the Bulls win a championship.

I will be more excited when the Bulls get a center that can score in the NBA.

Noch will have a great Season considering he stays healthy. He may even contend for sixth man of the Year. Forget Garnett that's not going to happen. Here's what will. The lineup for next season will be :

Deng SF
Gasol PF
Wallace C
Hinrich PG
Bryant SG

This means that the Bulls will Package Gordon, Duhon,& Thomas for Gasol. That's why they drafted an energetic shot blocker like Noah to replace Thomas. Then they sign Kobe & the rest is history. Sounds Logical!

Nocioni is a good signing. He doesn't hurt the Bulls chances of resigning Gordon and Deng. I think Deng will be easier to sign than Gordon due to Gordon's pride about being a starter or thinking he's better than he's really shown. Anyway, Nocioni plays tough defense, knows his role on the team, is well liked and continues the Bulls' good chemistry. Contrary to some posts, I believe Noah was the best pick for the Bulls. He provides defense and shot blocking against bigger players that Nocioni just can't guard. He may even be able to guard Rasheed. He definitely has more size. And it's knot like the Bulls were choosing between Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem and took Noah.

Jayman, you are right about Noah, but I am not sure about that last sentence. Oden and Durant are the real deal, and I believe there are at least 2 other players in this draft that are going to be Hall of Famers.

It's nice to watch a hard working guy like Noc on our team. As long as he doesnt take the game winning shot I'm happy he's with the Bulls.

Dan, I'm not sure what Pax would do, but I'm also smart enough not to pretend like I know what he'd do. But I don't think my proposed trade is such a wild thought. If we have the lineup next year that I proposed, the Bulls should have a 1st round pick of relatively little value (very low 1st round...not lottery like we've had lately). And Duhon just isn't worth that much. I think you'll see this when/if Pax trades him. He runs the floor pretty well and is scrappy and plays good d for his size, but there was a reason that he was a 2nd round pick and the Bulls are ready to dump him. Furthermore, a big man is definitely worth more than a 3, simple supply and demand. I'd be psyched if we could do a Deng - Gasol deal straight up or something similar...but my main point really was that trading Deng for a very good big man might be Pax's best option since Nocioni would be a solid replacement for Deng.

I drool thinking of that lineup. I mean read it again!

Hinrich (16 - 6)
Gordon (21 - 3)
Nocioni (14 - 6...on an off year)
Gasol (21 - 10)
Wallace (6 - 11)

And a bench of Thomas, Noah, Curry, Griffin, Sefolosha, etc. That's a pretty deep, young, balanced and talented team. Think of the rebounding, defense, inside out scoring, and different looks that they could throw out on the floor. I can definitely see them overtaking Detroit, Cleveland and, if healthy, Miami in the East with a team like that. I personally would pull the trigger.

I personally do not like the signing. I think Noce is a decent player at best who gives you a lot of energy, but at the same time you have more talented guys on the roster who can play the same position such as Deng, Thabo, or Thomas. What would be in the teams best interest is to use him as trading bait to get a big low-post scoring centing/PF because that presence does not exist. All in all the drafting of Noah made the need of Noce disappear.

We couldnt just trade Deng for Gasol...
The Bulls are over the cap, and their incoming salaries are greater than 125% plus $100,000 of their outgoing salaries. They would need to cut $8,995,950 from the incoming trade value to make the Deng/Gasol trade successful.

I kind of like Drew's thinking here though.

Deng and maybe Duhon and PJ & next years second round for Gasol or something like that would work, Memphis gets some good parts and a young star in Deng and we get the low post scorer we need.

It would be a sick lineup Drew, although it may be a bit boring, but i will say.... winning is never boring.

I'd still like to make a run at KG and or KOBE or even an J Oneil ( I know you hate this Idea Rome, he is still the best Big available, and are we above giving someone a second chance or third to start over). Its getting to be that half the league has had an issue at one point or another, a guy like O'neil is still young enough to learn from his mistakes. Plus, I think Jackson & Tinsley were the real bad seeds at Indiana, not O'Neil.

Deng,PJ,Duhon,Krhyapa for Jermaine O'neil.

Now you have

Gordon
Hinrich
TyThomas
Wallace
J.O'Neil

Noce/Noah/Thabo and JamesON off the bench.

I hate to burst anyones bubble, but I can't see how the team is much better than last year. Pax is floundering. it will take much more to win a championship than drafting Noah and resigning Noce. winning the East and getting crushed is a half assed way to approach the NBA finals. Chicago has a good not great team. all this tallk of breaking up the nucleus gets me confused. nucleus of what? we are still lacking a difference maker. for years we have had problems getting top free agents to want to come to Chicago and now when they want to come here the owners-general manager can't or won't pull the trigger. Pax get serious and look at all of the past NBA champions. this team does not look like any of them. as a fan I feel a bit like Charlie Brown with Lucy offering once again to hold the football.

I'm so bored with basketball right now I can't even sit still to watch a game all the way through. Remember the good old days, like ten years ago, when there weren't two hours of commercials for every game? I do, and also the talented and charismatic players who made you care about the sport, but now the game is run by refs. If the Bulls wanted to build a winning team they should just get all players who have been in the league for at least ten years - they would get such favorable calls from the refs that they would win by default.

Pessimism aside, I can't believe the Bulls are snubbing Bryant and KG. Are you kidding me? Mediocrity rules on this team - the idea is apparently to have five good players on the floor instead of one great one, three good ones, and one average one.

So next year the Bulls will have a very boring solid team, and I might even watch a few games if nothing else is on and I'm alone and drunk enough to find it entertaining.

Paxson - "If it's broke, fix it very very slowly"

No matter what Pax does from here on in, we're going to be amazing.

We're a championship team right now.

Wallace, Thomas, and Noah can stop Tim Duncan.

Hinrich, Gordon, and Noce can school Parker, Finley, and Manu.

And Luol "day" Deng wipes the floor with whoever is playing the 3 for the Spurs.

And the Bears are going to absolutely dominate the NFL this year. Tough one to start in San Diego, but it's all down hill from there. Grossman is going to blow poeple away.

Bculz I am not a numbers guy, but the Bulls need to do what they have to and make it work. I agree with making a run at a star like J.O.. We have got to sure up the middle and get taller and more athletic. I like a rotation of Wallace, Gray, Noah and JO, Thomas, Allen. At least we would be able to match up with teams that feature almost 600lbs on the block like Cleveland and Miami. We would lose a lot at the 3 spot, but Noch, Thomas, and Thabo would have to make up for that lost. I also like the Gordon, Curry rotation, Curry gives us insurance for Gordon, but we will need to bring in a point guard. Hinrich is not really a point guard. He has to work on his assists. Everyone is screaming about his scoring, but a TRUE point guard stirs the drinks and makes the team go. A point makes it so that your players don't have to dribble. Just catch and shoot or dunk.

Tim loved your post it was right on target. Patience is the key to building a team that can contend and win multiple titles. Miami made thier deal for O'neal, won one title, was swept by the Bulls in the first round the next year and doesn't look like a team that can bounce back this coming season. Would Bulls fans be happy with one title and then years of 1st or second round elimination? Hell no! Chicago Fans are like an ex-wife that isn't happy because after the ex-husband pays child support he still has enough money to live on macaroni and cheese! How many Bulls fans still say "yea we won six titles BUT if MJ hadn't retired that first time we would have won 8 straight".
One other thing you did not comment on Tim, but I am sure it was only because it hadn't been posted until after yours, J. O'Neal would not be an addition to the Bulls he would be a distraction. Many Pacer fans were very upsey that Al Harrington was traded instead of O'Neal. He's lazy and injury prone not to mention he is not a star but merely a slightly above average player.

Most of our core players are still on their rookie contracts,
Bryant has stated he would LOVE to come to Chicago, so Pax needs to work out a trade in ANY WAY possible to get Bryant, heres how MY trade would go down.

You cant get any younger than you already are, lock up the players you got now and and the ones you need after all this is said and done and lets not see if Bryant is willing to take a pay cut...not too much but to alleviate some pressure, if he wants to play with quality guys, they gotta pay for them somehow.

Ben Gordon, Chris Duhon, Sign and Trade P.J. Brown., and our entire draft next year and maybe a future first rounder lets say 2009?? id say that works out pretty well.

Your giving them verteran at the center position and P.J. could teach Bynum how to stand tall and rough against the opposition, and your not giving them a ton of players thus giving them what is already a built chemistry, if you put bryant in a situation where he is around most of last years bulls team, then you have chemistry, star power, and scoring up the whazoo.

The salaries wouldnt work out quite right, but thats where Bryants pay cut comes in handy, re work his contract and see if they cant work something out....maybe more years, less per year???

Clint Clack, can I have some of your Kool Aid?

It seems that a lot of u guys really like Kirk Grossman Hinrick. My question is why?

Simply an awful signing. We overpaid for a mediocrity.

Simply an awful signing. We overpaid for a mediocrity. Paxson must have some special connections to the Seattle Mariners' GM

Any chance Pax will pick up Steve Francis 4 peanuts since he will be a free agent in a week?

Roman responds: I'm guessing 'no.'

Tim Little, I agree with you on JO.

And there are a couple more examples of cluelessness right after your post.

Mike Gray not only doesn't understand that the Bulls can't sign P.J. unless he wants to continue playing AND go to L.A. and he is delusional in thinking Kobe could be had for Gordon, Duhon, P.J. and draft choices.

Not to be outdone, MG would like Paxson to pick up Stevie Franchise, whom I guess he thinks would be happy backing up Kirk and would be so good for team chemistry sitting on the bench.

Or, maybe I'm not getting what he wants with Francis. Maybe he he thinks he should replace Hinrich as the starting PG.

Antoine Walker? I heard someone say Antoine walker.?? I think that was you Romski!! You have to be kidding...are you talking about as an assistant coach?

Roman responds: Don't they get the news in Ariz.? Walker was robbed at gunpoint for the second time.

As usual most of you guys just don't get it. Picking Noah was the only "right" move at number 9, there was no "obviously better" player left, period. Resinging Nocioni was the only "choice" that the Bulls had, losing him as a player and as a future barganing chip for nothing would have been absolutely assinine, period.

Getting Nocioni for $2-3 million(total contract $) more than the mid-level exception was a steal, made possible only by Nocioni giving us a home town discount. One thing that the Bulls lack right now in making any big trades besides superstar players are superstar salaries. So we need more guys making more money just to get in the salary cap game when thinking about Garnett, Kobe, Gasol and even that total slug O'neil. Right now the best trade we can make for any on those guys has to include Wallace, who's contract sucks just for the money he makes, Never mind the player that he currently isn't and probably never was.

When Gordon and Deng re-up assuming that their contracts are not as stupid as Wallace's then we will have enough contracts to make a blockbuster trade. The Wallace contract was disaster for our trade and salary cap flexibility. The impatience that Pax showed in making a huge overpayment at the wrong time in the development of the team(it was way too soon) may ultimately prevent this team from ever winning a championship. Wallace may ultimately be the reason we don't get Kobe or KG, because we probably can't have two contracts that big at the same time. So unless LA or Minny takes Wallace back in a sign and trade or outright trade we can't do a Kobe or KG deal. In fact, if Pax hadn't prematurely panicked and signed Wallace at the opening bell of last years free agency the Bulls would already have had Gasol this year since we could have done a deal involving Tyson Chandler, whom Memphis would have taken. Would you rather have Gasol or Wallace. Remember Reinsdork really only cares about money in the end(Wallace was Paxon's one shot at Jerry's piggybank). That is why he eventually alienated Jordan and prematurely killed off the dynasty.

Nocioni and Noah have absolutely nothing to do with each other as playing parts except for heart, intelligence, and intensity things which a champion can never have enough of. Noah is more 5 than 4 and will probably take more time from Wallace this season than than the big malcontent mope can stand, expect more headband episodes. Nocioni, is a 3 first and 4 second, so the two of them offer Skiles a nice blend of flexible line-ups. Also, Pippen suffered from plantar whatever, and recovered just fine, it is sort of like a hamstring problem, it can be bothersome, but it is not a career ender, see Ken Griffey Jr.

I also beleive that Gordon has to go, either to sixth man or in a trade. This is where the luck of the draft may work in our favor. In Curry we got first round talent for a second round discount, I believe that Curry will be a better and taller overall player than Gordon. Remember he was some kind of player of the year out of highschool and had a full ride to Carolina before he got busted for selling $50 and $45 dollars worth of pot.

Bottom line, Pax did a great job this off-season stockpiling players and assets to build for a future blockbuster. Patience is a virture, we need to make a move a the best time for us, not just settle for what is available at any given moment. I would still hold out for Kobe sometime in the next two years, and KG when he finally makes Minnesota trade him or opts out in the next year. I wouldn't touch O'neil with Isaiah Thomas's "----" and I would only do Gasol if we can dump Wallace in the deal. Gasol is a 5 only not a 4. And Memphis isn't taking Wallace's contract under any circumstances. In fact I would not go beyond Wallace and Gordon in a Gasol deal, other than free add-in junk, Duhon, future draft choices, etc. If Memphis would do that deal I would jump on it in a heart-beat, even though it would greatly diminish our ability to do a future deal for either KG or Kobe. For those of you against the Noce signing Memphis might do Gordon and Nocioni for Gasol, but we still need to add more contract money to catch up to Gasol's bloated deal. With a great deal of reluctance, I might do this deal, but I and the Bulls would miss Noce, more than last years injured playoff run might indicate.

Finally, T. Thomas will blow up this year(he will be a better player than Oden and maybe even Durant this season), and Noah will play more 5 along side him than anyone seems to think(there are only a few Shaq size guys left out there), I think that Gray is a stiff but maybe we can throw him in there against the dinosuars. I can't wait to see a line-up of Hinrich, Thabo or even Curry, Deng, Thomas, and Noah play together. And that still leaves Nocioni, Gordon, Wallace and Curry/Thabo in a solid nine man rotation. That is as long and athletic as we ever had, even during Three-peat #1, or #2. The Doberman's are back. The Bulls will be much better this year and should overtake Cleveland(who we couldn't seem to beat last year) and Detroit to win the east, barring some trade based miraculous revitalization of Miami.

Nocioni was at best somewhere between average & above average at his position. He is coming of a down year where he rarely played and was a non-factor in the playoffs. He has never been an all-star nor has he ever been considered in the running for a replacement for an all-star. Yet he just signed a deal much better than the one the Bears disgruntled pro-bowl ex-linebacker did.

Did I miss something? Isn't the NFL reaping much better profits than the NBA? I heard that the Grizzles were willing to offer Noc a deal in the mid 40's. Apparently the pool of available forwards in the NBA is pathetically weak these days.

I think I'm starting to come around on the guys we have but maybe I'm just overly optimistic based on Ty Thomas' performance in the summer league - I think Travis Diener was the big stud last year!

IF, Thabo steps up, and Thomas continues to be able to hit the 15 footer like he's doing in the Orlando league, we may be ok. Once Noah gets healthy, I'm crazy enough to think he can give us 10 min a game behind Wallace next year and will be able to help the second team run more.

Starters: Hinrich, Thabo, Deng, Thomas, Wallace
Bench (in order): Gordon, Noch, Noah, Curry

Yep, we still need another guy at the 4 slot. Mikki Moore might do it.

"The league's salary-cap figures are set. The midlevel exception is, too, at $5.35 million. Those facts didn't stop the league's signing day from passing Wednesday--as expected--with no signing by the Bulls, whose search for a veteran big man remains limited to Joe Smith, Mikki Moore and Chris Mihm."

COME ON??????? MIKKI MOORE?????? UHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roman responds: There's no one else out there. Darko's talking $10M per.
And it's spelled UGH.

Tim-2 (Tim little is Tim-1), replacing Hinrich with a true point guard is not the worst idea. Hirich is a good defensive guard, not a great or sensational point guard. And HE WOULD have to back up a playmaking point guard like Steve Francis - if management had the stones to bring him in. I believe this might be what's wrong with Chris Duhon. Players who don't get along with Skiles get labeled "uncoachable", and ANY threat to Hinrich is not an option on the Bulls. Duhon is the ONLY kind of player who would feel comfortable backing up Hinrich. Bulls didn't even CONSIDER a player like Chauncy Billips because of their beloved Kirk Hinrich. Say what you want, but when the offense is not flowing (or completely dead for stretches)...its HIS fault. People blame Gordon, but Gordon is one of the most potent scorers in this league - and its not because he is catching passes where he is comfortable shooting, but CREATING his own offense most of the time. I like Hinrich because of his defense, but please don't confuse him with John Stockton because John knew how to PASS. Without Stockton, Mallone is just a good player instead of the lethal weapon we all witnessed for years. Having a playmaker is VITAL, unless you have an offense supplying system like the Triangle, or drive and kick like the Bulls run. And even then you have to have people who know when and how to pass. Thats how important Scottie Pippen was to the Bulls - VITAL.

Steve Francis can help the Bulls. He is NOT as bad as the media has made him out to be. BTW, he is a much better player than Kirk turnover Hinrick.

Roman responds: He's not a team guy, that's why Portland bought him out.

Tim not only is that trade suggestion for Kobe delusional but to think Kobe would take a pay cut is laughable. Also through all of these discussions I have forgotten if P.J. is a restricted or unrestiricted free agent if he should decide to continue playing. If he is unrestricted he doesn't even have to talk to the Bulls if some one else makes him an offer and if he's restricted he could be made an offer the Bulls aren't willing to match unless it involves a sign and trade. Or he could say he wants to play another season and not be happy with any offers and change his mind and retire. The fact that free-agency is now open and he has yet to make a decision tends to make me believe he's done unless some one makes him an offer he just can't refuse.

I am excited, but not for the Nocioni signing. He's a great player, but not the answer. In my mind I think Ben Gordon is a much easier player to let go of. If you've witnessed the sloppy ball handling of his in the 2007 playoffs, you would agree. Deal him and Noah with some other incentives for Garnett!

Roman responds: Nocioni is not a "great" player.

I dont think there are strong enough head band policies in place if we bring in Mikki Moore.

Jeffrey is right as rain! We need Mikki Moore, and Ben Gordon needs to return to the bench. Kirk needs to move to the 2 spot and JamesON take the point. Get PJ back in here and lets roll from there. Bulls aint making no splashes, so we might as well get on with it.

Oh Oh....Just found out the Grizzlies signed Darko Milicic. Another mediocre-bad team finding a way to sign a big man. I am getting tired of Pax. I love the guy, but come-ON!!! THIS is CHICAGO MAN! 3rd largest market in the country and home of MJ! Who wouldn't want to play here??? Scabie-Bryant does! Why is it so hard for him to pick up some help?!! All those free agents and we are going to end up with Miki Moore at best. Darko and Randolph were available and we get Moore. Wouldn't surprise me if we lose him too.

Nocioni is a very good player. He is better than a lot of starting power forwards since he is a great rebounder, can hit 3's, and plays hard at all time. Also, he is a winner. Resigning him was great. If an injury happens to Deng (God forbid), Nocioni can step right in. Just 1 year ago, he averaged 20 and 10 against Miami in the playoffs. During the playoffs this year, he was hurt and did not play as well as he has the prior 2 seasons. He will recover and the Bulls as a team will be better than last year. With a year of experience, Thabo and Tyrus will be better and the Bulls will win the East. Paxson is the best GM by far in the NBA because he is forming a team. Now it's time to resign Deng and Gordon since it will be more expensive next year.

Most teams seem to be making moves improve their teams. The Bulls? Content on being 2 embarrassed in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

First, let's talk about Francis, vis-a-vis Hinrich as a PG.

I have no illusions as to how good a "pure" PG Hinrich is. He is not that great a passer but he isn't a bad one either.

But he was still 10th in the league, at 6.3APG, among PGs.

What he does need to do is improve his ATO from his current 2.6/1 to at least 3/1.

As a defender, he is a tweener. While he has done a very good job on Wade, with good help defense from the rest of the team, it is very difficult to ask him to be a lock down defensive player and a solid scorer and distributor. He is not big enough to handle a lot of SGs and not quick enough to handle some PGs.

As for Francis, in the last 3 years he has played a TOTAL of 114 games. He has averaged just over 31MPG, 13PPG, 4.7APG with a FG% of .427 and a 3PT% of .363.

He is the same 6'3" as Hinrich, with a few more pounds of muscle and he is not the defender that Kirk is.

So, yes, if he was cheap enough AND it was clear that he was coming in as Kirk's backup AND Paxson and Skiles thought he would be a good fit, then I'd say sign him up.

But he WON'T be cheap, he WILL expect to compete for the starting PG position and Paxson AND Skiles will be on the same page concerning his ability to fit in.

So, I guess it essentially boils down whether or not you like what Paxson and Skiles are doing, which includes believing that they know more about it than you, or you don't.

I do.

As for not going after Darko, that tells me that Pax and Skiles believe that Thomas is going to be the PF of the future, starting this year and that Noah can play backup PF and starting C in the near future and that Darko, while averaging 12.3PTS in the 5 game playoff series with the Pistons only averaged 4.5RBs, which isn't all that impressive for a 7 foot center.

Here is a question for Roman and the board.

From 1 to 4, list your preference of the players that the Bulls are supposedly still pursuing for their additional big man.

Here is my view:

1. P.J(if they can get him, is much more valuable, overall, than the others)
2. Smith
3. Moore
4. Mihm

Tim, just so u know, Francis received a buyout. The bulls could sign him 4 the league minimum if Francis agrees 2 a deal. He gets 30 million from Portland so money should not be an issue.

Of course we all know that he is not the bulls type of player. Frankly,I'm tired of hearing that statement. Since we have won exactly nothing in 10 NBA seasons what type of player would that be? A loser?

Roman responds: And what has Francis won? C'mon guys, making trades and signing people just for the sake of doing it is why Isiah is like $45M over the cap with a horrible team. It makes no sense.

Francis is a horrible fit for the Bulls. The Bulls need a backup scorer in the backcourt which may end up being Curry in a year or 2. Furthermore, Paxson continues to prove to be the best GM by signing Joe Smith. With Joe Smith and Nocioni rotating at PF, the Bulls can continue to develop Tyrus at an appropriate pace by not forcing him to be something he is currently not, a jump shooter. Tyrus is a slasher who does not hit jumpers but can score by his ability of attacking the basket. Joakim can also develop slowly since he and Gray can backup Ben Wallace. This will be the new 3 headed monster with Noah logging in decent minutes and Gray playing garbage minutes and/or going in to hack a Shaq.

Tim you properly broke down Kirk Hinrich's game. Kirk is one of the best guards in the league - statwise. But with all those stats, we both know that Steve Francis is an All-Star calliber guard that will go to the rim and throw it down nasty. Kirk is treated as untouchable, and I don't believe he has earned that. In fact neither has Deng or Gordon - the other components of the beloved Core. Tyrus Thomas has shown the most promise as a Bull whose Blocks and Dunks are NBA-highlight-Calliber. Ben Gordon has shown he has a jaw-dropping scoring ability. Deng and Hinrich have shown they are very good, but not unlike other players at their positions. I know Deng is good, but until he stops shooting all those jumpers, he will be suspect. ANYONE PLAYING 3-5 can only impress me by going to the RACK. That is the knock on Rasheed Wallace. Great player, but he has more to offer at the basket. Leave all those jumpshots for the guards.

Pax signed Joe Stiff today. Good replacement for PJ. Should fit right in the Bulls. Just happy the Bulls didnt take a huge step backwards. Smith is better offensively, PJ was better defensively and height/weight-wise. But we needed more offense. Pax did add a free agent, so I am pleased, but not happy. Its like we are back to 500 again. If he signs another big vet, like Moore or Posey, then I will be happy. We needed to shore up that glaring hole in the post, and we need some playoff gangsters. Looking back on it, we should have smashed Detroit and lost to Cleveland. Conference finals is a decent goal for the Bulls next season.

MG your post made my DAY! We do talk like we are the Franchise to build after! Just got out of the first round a few months ago! I am dying laughing!

Wow...Pax signed Joe Smith. Who is next? Will Purdue? At this rate, my 3 year old be have his PHD by the time the Bulls mature. Pax is NOT earning his money. Why can't Cuban buy the Bulls and the Cubs?

Seriously, we may have the WEAKEST front court in the NBA. Pax has no idea what he is doing. The only dependable front court player we have is Deng and all he can do is shoot 18 footers. This team is in SERIOUS trouble.

Roman, I hate 2 tell u this, but Francis is probably a better player than 90% of the current Bulls roster. I don't know what u have against this guy, but the man can PLAY. That's a fact.

Roman responds: What is with you guys? If he's so freaking good, why do so many teams keep trading him? Have you asked yourself that one question? Of course he's talented, but there are a ton of talented basketball players in the world who would make lousy team players. If you want to watch great individual talent, go watch the Globetrotters. And if you don't like the Bulls, don't watch them. Root for the Knicks. They could use the love. And MG, your post may be the first time in history a player has been criticized for "only" being able to make 18-footers. Do you have any idea how valuable that commodity is?

MG: As far as Francis is concerned, two things.

First, I don't consider him to be in the category of Grant Hill, by which I mean that since he has all that buyout money he won't insist on being paid like a star.

Hill is at the end of his career and has decided he would like to be a contributing factor that helps Phoenix over the hump to a title.

Francis is, theoretically, in his prime and I doubt that he wants to play that kind of a role.

Maybe this will put Francis' perceived value around the league in perspective.

The Nuggets, rightly or not, consider themselves legitimate contenders for the Western Conference title, with almost superstar Melo, superstar(?) Iverson, DPOY Camby and young, talented big man Nene who really came on at the end of the season.

After trading PG Andre Miller in the AI deal, they picked up journeyman Steve Blake as their starting PG. The 6'3" Blake had decent numbers - 8.3pts and 6.6assts. The Nuggets just, apparently, decided he was not worth what he wanted to re-sign.

So, what do you think? Would Stevie Franchise have been the missing piece to make the Nuggets a true title contender?

Would he have been so happy to play with such a talented core that he would not have demanded any more money than Blake?

I guess not, because the Nugz decided to go with the great Chucky Atkins as their new PG, giving them maybe the only starting guard combo in the league that makess Hinrich and Gordon look like big guys.

Why do you think the Nugz did not go with Francis, MG?

Keith: As for my analysis of Hinrich, you are right up there with any Bush administration hack in taking what I wrote and perverting it for your own purposes rather really understanding its meaning.

I depicted Kirk's defensive shortcomings, i.e., too small to defend a lot of big SGs and to slow to defend some PGs.

How does that negate the fact that some of the best distributing PGs, like Nash and Paul, don't come close to being able to effectively guard anyone? And another little PG, Parker can be hell to try and stop offensively but not only cannot play D but isn't that great a distributor either.

Kidd and Deron Williams are both physical PGs who are great distributors and can more than adequately defend against most other PGs and many SGs.

While Williams MAY become the league's premiere PG over the next couple of years, Kidd has always been a mediocre shooter - career 40% - and scorer - career 1.12PPS.

The other proven PG you can thrown as a complete player is Billups.

But that's about it.

My biggest concern with Kirk is his head. If he could just try some TM or yoga or something to help him stay focussed and not get hung up on missed shots or TOs, he could easily be a 20/8 player taking only 15 shots per game.

Tim, ask yourself if you think ANY of those teams would trade Kirk for their point? And you left off Arenas, Bibby, and Jason Terry, Baron Davis and Sam Cassell.

Roman, u must be a comic. What happens 2 a jumpshooter when his shot stops falling? Answer: the bench. The Bulls had better figure out tht NBA playoff games are won in the trenches of the LOW-post. The low-post game and Hinrick are the weakest parts of the Bulls.

Roman responds: Way to twist the argument. The argument was Deng's ability to knock down medium-range jumpers is tremendously valuable. And the truth is the guy gets to the hole, too. He's a really good up-and-coming guy. And yes, we all know low-post scoring is a weakness, that was never the issue.

Tim u do realize that Francis won't be a free agent until next week, so your comments about the Nuggets are not valid. I'll bet money he finds a team and will put up better numbers than Hinrick.

Roman, Francis played well for the Rockets before being traded. Those other teams were not a good fit his skill set. Bottom line? The Bulls are so busy preparing 2 lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs while other teams are trying 2 win a title.

Keith: My bad AND yours too.

Of course, none of those FOUR teams would prefer Kirk,so what?

And, yes, I obviously should have included Arenas, although I think of him as more like Iverson or Wade,i.e.. a combo guard who is both the team leader in assists and scoring as MJ was also, in his first 6 seasons. Baron Davis is certainly a better player than Kirk but he has averaged just 60 games for the last 3 seasons and has at times been a me-first player. So, two for you.

As far as Terry is concerned, I think he is pretty much Kirk's equal. I can't think of any area in which he is particularly better.

Then there are the two for me: Bibby and Cassell.

Sacramento seems eager to get rid of Bibby whose FG% has declined each of the last four years to a mediocre .404 last year. I am concerned with Kirk's so-so 2.6/1 ATO rate but Bibby's was pathetic last year, LESS than 2/1. And he can't defend as well as Kirk.

Cassell WAS a pretty good PG in his day, as good or better than Kirk but mentioning him now is similar, but not as bad, as if you would have brought up Gary Payton.

I don't think any teams would take Cassell over Hinrich as their starter, very few, if any, would take Bibby and it would probably be a wash with Terry.

So that puts Kirk as the 7th or 8th best PG in the league or around the top 25%.

MG:
"Tim u do realize that Francis won't be a free agent until next week, so your comments about the Nuggets are not valid."

Uh, no. Are you actually saying that, if the Nuggets actually were interested in Francis, they couldn't have waited another few days before settling on the certainly less talented Chucky Atkins, who at 5'11" will, combined with Iverson, give Denver the smallest starting backcourt in the NBA?

MG:
"I'll bet money he finds a team and will put up better numbers than Hinrick."

Of course he will find a team. If Blake and Atkins had no trouble moving, why would Francis? But I would also expect that he will be asking for significantly more money than Hill got from Phoenix.
And, I wouldn't be surprised if the best he can find is a place where he shares the PG spot, so I would certainly take your bet regarding who puts up better numbers next year.

Tim the NBA salary cap will NOT allow Francis 2 sign for more than a veteran's exception. (due 2 the buyout of his contract)

MG: Tim the NBA salary cap will NOT allow Francis 2 sign for more than a veteran's exception. (due 2 the buyout of his contract)

Um, no.

From the Sporting News:

Blazers buy out Steve Francis' contract

July 11, 2007

Associated Press

PORTLAND, Ore. -- "The Portland Trail Blazers have agreed on a buyout with guard Steve Francis, who was acquired in a draft-night deal with the New York Knicks.

Francis, who was due $34 million over the final two years of his contract, was expected to clear waivers and become an unrestricted free agent."

By the way, what is a "veteran's exception"? I did not find anything that generic in the CBA.

And that certainly doesn't expain why the Nuggets wouldn't have waited a couple of more days to try and sign him rather than Chucky Atkins, if they actually thought he was a better fit.

Tim my friend, there are at least 5 more point guards out there BETTER than Kirk that we havent discussed. He is good, but not what we are making him to be. All I am saying is there is a LOT of room for improvement. You saw the playoffs with your own eyes, and I know you are not going to tell me that Deron Williams is not better than Kirk - right NOW. Deron is performing like Francis did during his allstar year. And Deron is in his second year - no excuses. All of this Baby-Bull development stuff is a crutch for Kirk. You switch both players, and the Bulls are in the Finals in 07 instead of Cleveland.

Are Kirk and Rex roomates?

Im starting a niceguy,mild mannered,floppy hair,Chicago,Professional,Starting,QB and PG,used as punching bag support group!

Can anyone think of anyone else who should be a member?

Bculz - good analogy! I am crackin UPPP! All we need is for Skiles to say is "Kirk is our starting point guard" - when JamesON has his first 10 assist game.

Roman responds: Ten assists?!?!?!? LOL. He didn't have a 10-assist game last season in college.

He can handle the rock Roman, and now he is passing to Smith, Thomas and Deng. Its really not that hard. Ask Scott Skiles.

Ease up on Kirk...at least a little. I'm not saying he'll be another Nash, but his stats are much better than Nash' through their first 3 years. Nash didn't get to 6 assists till year 3 and Hinrich got over 7 in his second year and 3rd years.
Nash had a semi-breakout year in his 4th year at Dallas so we'll see what happens this year with Kirk. Hinrich is also playing out of position on D guarding guys much taller and stronger so that cannot help his game. Nash never did and never will guard anyone. Gordon makes Hinrich look like first team all defense. Gordon and Hinrich are essentially holding each other back - both need a bigger guard to play with. If Sefalosha can improve this year and play 20 minutes a game, Kirk will have a good year.

Good point Jeffrey!!!

I am a little harder on folks that get a pass all the time. And I especially don't like untouchable guys if they aren't proven. Every one of the Bulls have been mentioned in trades - who is Kirk, and what has he done that we can't mention him. The way they protect him, you have to ask questions. Kirk is a good guard and its not his fault that management has placed a hedge around him. Its to Paxon's credit that we have JamesON to even push Kirk.

Keith why do you have such a jamesON for Curry?

Bcluzie, that is a fresh post! JamesON is the only player on the Bulls who can challege Kirk for his spot. Paxson in his attempt to protect Kirk from competition, finally realized its not wise to not have a legitimate back up point guard. Duhon realized he would NEVER start and has become bench cancer. Kirk has ALL the minutes and responsibility and its KILLING us. He's tired, and the offense slows down unless Duhon brings it (and he is not happy). JamesON might be a total bust, but at least there is another point on the team. I want KIRK performing under the same pressure as everyone else. If Curry performs WELL I want Kirk's name mentioned in some of those trade rumors. Kirk is good, but not untouchable. A point guard can make others better. I trully want to know if its Kirk, or are our players just not that good. JamesON will give us a different look and that is good for the whole team.

My intentions for listing his was to illustrate his consistency during his career with the exception of 2001 when the hit 73 homeruns. It could have been determination or performnace enhancements? Personally, I don't know. But I do know that Michael Jordan was a spectacular player during the earlier years and as he age he became a phenomenal player. As Barry Bonds aged he didn't steal as many bases therefore (in my opinion) that energy could of been transferred to other areas of his game(let's say hitting). Michael Jordan use to dunk like it he was doing layups, but as he aged the dunks slowed down and he transferred that energy to other areas of his game (let's perfecting his jump shot). Even Greg Maddox was an oustanding pitcher in his younger days but as he aged the velocity slowed a bit but has other ways of setting up hitters to get them. Maybe it was determination or 'roids that fuel Barry to break the single season record.

Got it Keith, I hear ya!