Full Court Press

I agree with you Roman. This is Kenny Williams's fault. He made a great acquisition on Mike MacDougal, a legitimately very good reliever whose only major question was injury. It was unfortunate and relatively unforseeable that MacDougal would experience a non-injury related collapse. Other than that bit of bad luck, Williams has done nothing to solidify the bullpen. There's no way he should have expected Cotts and Politte to repeat 2005 in 2006, just as he should never have expected a repeat from Thornton this year. Changes needed to be made, and he didn't make them.

With Dye and Crede coming off career years that coincided with Jim Thome suprisingly having what was one of his top years in his career, some regression could be expected due primarily to aging and luck this year. The pieces were set for Kenny to make a couple of good acquisitions/trades in the offseason to beef up the current roster and win while win-now talent was present, but instead, we got.....Darin Erstad....a guy who scrapes mediocrity on a good year these days. As a result, PECOTA predicted the Sox to go 72-90 before the season. I didn't believe it at first, but I guess I was blind to how lucky the Sox were before with health and overperforming players. Even though the team was a year older, Kenny Williams insisted that this made the team "a year better", rather than making necessary changes.

And now the Sox are paying the price. And the way they're doing it is, as you say, "laughable".

Yes, I would blame Williams. I really don't care for Ozzie but what is he supposed to do with this sorry mess called the White Sox bullpen?
Williams thought that it was a good idea to give up pitching year after year and now look at the results.
I have no faith in this team even when they are up by 6 or 7 runs because you can just sit back and wait for the fireworks show from this collection of scrubs and they never disappoint.

It's getting really old hearing Williams and everyone else on the Sox say "we have a lot of talent". Obviously they don't. How long are they going to let the ship flounder in the water - till it sinks? Dump the chumps and get some young talent to build for the future before it's too late, which it may already be. Being stubborn will only make the rebuilding process longer and more painful. Also tired of hearing Jenks make excuses every time he gets knocked around. What, no one ever hits a ball hard off him? Did last night, AGAIN!

Roman responds: Good post.

That is a GREAT question! Top to bottom, they are a good club. When clicking on all cylinders, a very good club. Their record indicates they are a rock bottom team, when they are not. Rotation is solid. Players are good. Management is good. That means you SHOULD be doing fine but we are not. Injuries hurt us. HITTING DROUGHTS (no timely hitting). CONSISTENTLY HORRIBLE BULLPEN. when things are out of sorts like that, its very hard to do all the other little things right, like execute bunting, getting guys over and stealing bases. And I can imagine if you are a starting pitcher, it makes it even more difficult not knowing if the lineup is going to score, or if the pen can hold your lead. Anything that could go wrong has with the Sox. Its been uncanny and difficult to explain, yet they go into every game with a legitimate chance to win.

Its as simple as 1-2-3, get rid of the manager. He's responsible for all the problems with this team. Ozzie has the mindset of a 15 year old child. The underlying factors are not obvious to the naked eye. He has a latin temper and a very irrational way of looking at things. What he does and say to these young ballplayers in the clubhouse is one big factor why this team is going so bad.

Roman responds: A Latin temper? What kind of temper does Bobby Knight have? Scott Skiles? Mike Ditka? Let's not stereotype.

Can Bobby Jenks still be considered an elite closer this year? He is 2-4 with a 3.89 ERA. He has blown 5 saves and is 25/30, which is only 83% effective. Elite closers are above 90%. Heck, Dempster is 89% effective on save opportunities and I don't consider him an elite closer. The velocity on his fastball has been down all year. The only thing that looks to be on the rise, is his weight.

Roman responds: He has gained some pounds, hasn't he? And no, I wouldn't put him among the top five closers. But he's better than Dempster.

Time to wave the White Flag.

Tell me something Roman. Are we going to see another "bash Ozzie" column from Mariotti this week? Are we going to see Mariotti put up the record of the Sox since the break last year and claim it's Ozzie's fault?

Are you going to have the guts to put up a poll asking whether your "readers" flock to the internet because they don't want to spend a time on the paper when Mariotti writes in it?

White Sox fans have known the truth since Kenny took over. He got lucky in 2005. Guys in that bullpen had career years. A one-time flash. Kenny had fail to lay a strong foundation in the minor leagues for relievers like Detroit and Minny have. That was obvious in 2006 and even more so now in 2007.

So here we are in 2007 with arguably the worst bullpen in the majors. What's worse is that we are having to convert starters (Russell) to relievers just to try and salvage the season. With no hopes of a post season any more the best the White Sox fans can hope for is that their team is capable of competing in their remaining games.

Roman, it's ridiculous to blame Ozzie for Kenny's obvious failure. Try to talk some sense into your colleague about that or better yet tell your boss fans aren't buying the paper any more because Mariotti's lost all credibility in this city.

Roman responds: I thought Greg Couch wrote a pretty good column about the Kenny and the Sox today. Check it out.

I don't blame Kenny Williams. The blame lies with two areas. 1. The players. It comes down to execution, which oddly enough we hear as a frequent criticism so often in sports. 2. The scouting team. Either they have little knowledge of what it takes to be a major league caliber ball player or they see one good thing and allow it to overshadow all other negatives.

I said it at the start of the season that the Cubs would go on to the WS and that the Sox would be in the basement (I also added that Ozzie would finally blow up and assault Bobby Jenks leading to formal charges…you never know, there’s a lot of time left for that to happen).

They are now as bad as the traditional Cubs. I realized that as soon as I saw them getting swept by the Cubs. I wish I could say I was the Sox fan hiding his face in a paper bag in the last game versus the Cubs.

The Sox hit rock bottom this year because of their atrocious bullpen, and also because a number of their key players usually wait until July to start hitting the ball, and by then it is too late. Plus, Juan Uribe, the most aukward hitter I've ever seen. With Uribe playing, guys pitching for other teams only have to get 24 guys out instead of the required 27, because they know Juan is an automatic out. I was dismayed yesterday to see him coming to bat late in the game with a man on base. Cintron could have done a better job.

Back to the bullpen. I believe that baseball has been ruined in recent years with so many bullpen pitchers being used. In the old days, a starting pitcher was expected to pitch a full game and a reliever was usually called out in the 7th or 8th inning to put out the fire, and this usually happened during a hot summer day when the starter would get tired. Guys like Don Mossi, Hoyt Wilhelm and Dick Radatz,if they were playing today, would receive credit for some 500 career saves or so, because they went out on long and short relief, and in those times they were required to face 9 hitters to be credited with a save. Coaches didn't count pitches or used a radar gun. There were no more injuries to arms in those days. Pitchers did not throw sideways, so with a faster delivery it was tougher for the runner to steal the base. So, how come a Sox pitcher earning thousands, or perhaps millions cannot pitch as good as guys making $18,000 in their days? I say, it is time to stop playing college-style baseball. Reliance on bullpen pitchers (most of them are no good, as statistics show), should be ended and baseball should go back to basics.

In the old days, teams were loaded with players drafted from independent southern leagues, the American Legion, the Negro Leagues (as black leagues were called), or from sandlot parks in Latin America. Most players did not attend college; however, I can assure you that they were useful because of their ability to do what they were expected to do, whether stealing a base, clutch-hitting, or pitching a good game. Team-playing, that's how it was called.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but here I go again. The Sox must get new bullpen RIGHT NOW and leave the starting rotation as it is, except Contreras. I would wait to see what Dewon Day can show, as he seems to have a good slider. Iguchi is good for one more year. Jermaine may have to be let go and a free agent brought in. And be aware that in a couple of years the team may need a new catcher...

Everyday someone new takes blame for this mess. The best thing about this season may be to see Williams's inflated ego get punctured.

Leave leadership out of this because they WISELY did what Jerry Krause unwisely did, and that is try to win more championships. Was a no-brainer people. Time to blow it up NOW, and we just found that out - THIS SEASON. We have players that other teams will need. Time to have a Florida Marlins fire sale and rebuild. Kenny has NOTHING to be ashamed of. THE PLAYERS are supposed to be getting it done and they are NOT! Sox should have no regrets and I am not sad. They tried! They rolled the dice to WIN and I LOVE IT! Just did not work out. I still trust those that brought us a Championship. I will not bail on them after one bad season No-Sir-Rheee!

Bill, good point. I'm a lifelong Sox fan and I appreciate the fact that they won it in 05. What I don't like is Kenny Williams preening around town like he's the king of the city. I also blame the players for not executing. At some point, it has to boil down to those guys and also to the one that acquired them. He needs to stop overvaluing these guys and start moving them for some great young talent. The biggest mistake he made was underestimating the impact of losing Aaron Rowand. He was the heart and soul of Sox blue collar pride. I like Thome, but he doesn't have the look or resolve of a Rowand. This is the worst bullpen I've seen in years. It is certainly not the 1990 Reds. Hell, it isn't even the 06 Sox. Kenny needed a reality check and this year may get him back to work on proving that he is better than a 1 year wonder.

Even with the lack of hitting this year, if the bullpen were amoung the top third of the AL, we would be contending for a wild card. If we can move or dump Contreras, Vasquez, Uribe, Pods and Erastad and sign a quality SS, like Eckstien and a quality leadoff hitter /CF, sign Dye, move Fields to LF and play Creede at 3rd until we can trade him or resign him, and aquire a bullpen with the aformentioned trade bait, we just may contend next year. All of that being said, contenders usually are limited to their "ifs" being to stay injury free and have a few people have career years. With so many other "ifs",locgic says keep Buhrle, Garland, Fields, Paulie, AJ, Sweeny, Owens and 2 or 3 of the minor league pitching prospects and blow the rest up. Garland and Buhrle are young enough to stay through a rebuilding and be the anchors of a 2010 staff that could compete for a championship. Finally, if we look back to 2003-4, who would have predicted 2005?? With $$ and savy, a contender can be built/bought in two years! If the Cubs win (I hope not), perhaps it will pressure Reinsdorf to bust out the checkbook!!!

Even with the lack of hitting this year, if the bullpen were amoung the top third of the AL, we would be contending for a wild card. If we can move or dump Contreras, Vasquez, Uribe, Pods and Erastad and sign a quality SS, like Eckstien and a quality leadoff hitter /CF, sign Dye, move Fields to LF and play Creede at 3rd until we can trade him or resign him, and aquire a bullpen with the aformentioned trade bait, we just may contend next year. All of that being said, contenders usually are limited to their "ifs" being to stay injury free and have a few people have career years. With so many other "ifs",locgic says keep Buhrle, Garland, Fields, Paulie, AJ, Sweeny, Owens and 2 or 3 of the minor league pitching prospects and blow the rest up. Garland and Buhrle are young enough to stay through a rebuilding and be the anchors of a 2010 staff that could compete for a championship. Finally, if we look back to 2003-4, who would have predicted 2005?? With $$ and savy, a contender can be built/bought in two years! If the Cubs win (I hope not), perhaps it will pressure Reinsdorf to bust out the checkbook!!!

Keith Lifetime Southsider - The line of thinking you just posted is everything wrong with what the White Sox are trying to do. Rotation is solid, yes that's true. But then you say "players are good". Players are not good, Keith! Thome and Konerko are good. The true Jermaine Dye is above average for a RF. The true Tadahito Iguchi is above average for a 2B (though his defense is dismal). Other than those four guys and 3/5 of our starting rotation, no, we don't have good players. You even said yourself that the bullpen is horrible. Aren't those guys players too? The 2 injured outfielders aren't any good anyway. Crede is pretty valuable, but you probably saw the best of him last year. His injury more than any other significantly hurt the team. But most teams lose a very good player for an extended stretch of time. The fact of the matter is, Keith, this team ISN'T good. It was projected to lose 90 games before the season started.

"its very hard to do all the other little things right, like execute bunting, getting guys over and stealing bases."

This is not an effective way to accomplish the goal of an offense, which should be to score the maximum amount of runs....not to trade an out (a scarce resource) for a base.

"yet they go into every game with a legitimate chance to win."

This is possibly the least insightful thing I've ever read about baseball ever.

Ozzie Fan - THANK YOU! Mariotti puts WAY too much emphasis on the impact that a manager has on a team. The players and the guy that puts together the team of players, the GM, are both much, much more important factors than a manager. Yet he's all Lou-this and Ozzie-that. And he bases all of his criticisms on results (wins and losses dependent on PLAYER performance) than process (the strategy the manager implements to win games). But I don't want him to get better at his job. The ridiculously stupid things he says are too funny for me to want them to go away.

I personally blame just about the whole team and organization for this year. That being said, I've been quite satisfied with the starters as a group, especially Garland, Buerhle and Vasquez. Danks has been solid as a rookie, and perhaps Contreras will bring back some decent young player.

The bullpen simply sucks. But this has to be the hardest thing to figure out year to year. I don't think there were many people out there saying Politte and Cotts were going to be terrible in 06 (before the season started), or that MacDougal was going to blow up, and the Sox' bullpen was going to be horrible this year. I admit that I believed the hype and expected a decent bullpen this year. I thought Jenks, MacD and Thorton would be a respectable trio, and that from the likes of Masset, Sisco, Aardsma, etc we would have a few decent relievers...even if their ERA was in the high 4's/low 5's it'd be acceptable b/c of our top 3.

The offense has had more than it's share of disappointments as well. Who can say honestly that they predicted the Sox to have one of the worst offensives in baseball? This is the player's fault.

Injuries don't help either. I know the Sox have been extremely healthy as of late until this year, but the law of averages is coming back to bite them bigtime. Losing a starting CF, LF and 3B for most of the year, and having the RF, DH miss time hurts. It's not the main reason why this team is so bad, but it certainly doesn't help.

The minor league system is a disaster. Kenny is a part of this as he's traded some good talent away and now has a bad team and below ave. minor league stock, but the system has produced no starters, no good relievers, and only Fields as a solid fielding prospect as of late. The long list of OF prospects has underproduced, and all the pitchers we've brought up have gotten pounded. I understand that this is the process sometimes (see Rowand), but I am very glad that someone's head rolled over this pathetic system (Shaffer, right?). (I think the main reason the other teams in the Central are so good is that they've been able to develop their own players, kept costs down, and put great teams on the field at an affordable price)

All these are reasons why, while I am not excited with what Kenny has done to this team this year (the team did win 93 games last year, and shouldn't be seen as a big disappointment IMO), I will give him the benefit of the doubt to turn it around for next year. At that point, if the team is still close to this bad, he should be fired.

Whoever's fault it is, this has been the worst year in my memory as a Sox fan.

Whatever happen to small-ball?

"Small-ball" as a general baseball strategy to follow, is very dumb, because you waste outs to move runners over instead of trying to score the maximum number of runs in situations. There's mathematical proof in the form of an expected runs matrix that can be found on baseballprospectus.com that sacrifice hits, etc. are not good for an offense. "Small-ball" was never the reason the Sox were great in '05....the offense was mediocre at best. The reason was that a lot of pitchers on the White Sox coincidentally had career years to form what was arguably the best pitching staff in baseball.

Actually the real reason I came back to post was that with all the random Mariotti complaints showing up here (most recent being Ozzie fan's), despite the topics having nothing to do with Jay, I figured I'd toss a link to the Fire Jay Mariotti blog on here. It's by no means all about Jay Mariotti....there's plenty on many members of the sports media. But if any of you want to check out some Jay-related humor, go there and click the "jay mariotti" label on the far right to see specifically the things written about his columns.

The bullpen is horrible, give the rest of the team some credit. If the bullpen was average, the Sox would be a .500 team and still be in contention for the Wild Card. I feel like a Cub fan...Wait Til Next Year!

I've been a Sox fan since the early sixties when I was playing catch with my grandfather over on 38th and calumet. One of my favorite players was Frank Thomas and i'm telling you until Williams the G.M. publicly apologizes to Frank, the Sox will have bad luck. They have a very good team but....NO LUCK. Tell Kenny to eat crow for the sake of us fans and then and ONLY then will we get back to the top.

Time to wave the White Flag.

Posted by: Julie B. | July 18, 2007 08:27 AM
*********************************************
Not yet Julie B., not yet!

I don't blame Kenny Williams. The blame lies with two areas.
1. The players. It comes down to execution, which oddly
enough we hear as a frequent criticism so often in sports.

Posted by: Ray | July 18, 2007 09:03 AM
****************************************************************
Agree with these statements, but by now all Big time
players should be able to scout a pitcher or team
tendencies from watching film on their own.

Millions of dollars to play a game!
But do baseball players
watch film like individuals in other sports.
I think some of these hitters just go out swinging
at air sometimes.

Go White Sox!!

Noles I like the cut of your jib! But my friend those players you are talking about are all wearing hardware and you don't get to be champs without being Good. Players you said that were good, are REALLY GOOD. Dye was an MVP candidate last year. Sox have a good team and good players, just ask Cleveland. The whitesox have a chance to win every game because of pitching and the lineup. Our starting pitching are favored to win against 85% of the starters in this league. If our bats do what the players AVERAGE, we tear a hole in teams. We can hang up 10 points without us fans even being impressed. I know what this team can do, and its just not doing it. There was a time when Minnesota, Yankees, Boston, came to town and I would think we were lucky to get one game, but not anymore. We have the advantage matchup wise in all these series. Yohan Santana, Justin Verlander, yes, but all the rest of these guys, fahgetaboutit! Buerhle, Garland, Vasquez, Danks, Contreras, Jenks - and those bats are supposed to be getting it done. Boston and NY have been laying eggs by the basket. No one is saying they are bad squads. I STAND BY WHAT I SAID. Whitesox are beating the Whitesox, not these bums. Only thing I surrender is that "BULL" pen.

My frustration with this season lies mostly with the media and the fans. The White Sox continue to be one of the most entertaining and talented ballclubs in baseball. Playing championship caliber baseball year in and year out is very difficult (especially in the current AL Central). Thus being why the Braves and Yankees are the only two clubs to consistently produce championship caliber clubs. Whats amazing to me is how most fans seem to underappreciate everything that goes into a championship season. So many things beyond your control must go right. Is it a contract year for some players, do injuries play a part, does the clubhouse mesh well? Sometimes the strategy doesn't unfold as envisioned. Despite this tough year, I am confident that Kenny and Ozzie will do whatever it takes to give the White Sox that chance for greatness next year. To all of those displeased with Ozzie I say, you cannot argue with his passion nor his genuine concern for every one of his players. I'll take that guy on my side any day. I find it funny that the critics will be right back on the bandwagon when the Sox are on the way back up. Enjoy being a hippocrit.

"I feel like a Cub fan"? Tom, if you were a Cub fan your team would be playing great ball and on the way up, not struggling to say out of the cellar!

Unfortunately, the Sox are in the toughest division in baseball, the AL Central. The Sox' window of opportunity is probably closed for this season, unlike the Cubs, who have taken advantage of being in the pitiful NL Central.

Both Chicago teams have suffered from the same problems this season, stretches where the offense has completely disappeared and horrible work by the bullpen.

What the Sox need to do is find that one guy who can solidify the bullpen, take pressure off some of the underachievers, and help define everyone's role. The Cubs found that one guy in Carlos Marmol. With the team in such a good groove right now, people tend to forget how awful the Cubs' bullpen was the first two months of the season. Marmol's emergence has changed everything.

Is Charlie Haeger the guy? Time will tell. Down the line, I'd be more worried about the everyday lineup if I were a Sox fan. There seem to be a lot of holes now, and it looks like it'll be even worse next season.

Keith Lifetime Southsider,

Konerko and Thome are REALLY good, as you say. Dye, however, is not REALLY good. 2005 is more representative of his skillset than 2006. He's a pretty decent starting RF. That's it.

Buehrle, Garland, and Vazquez are pretty good pitchers. Danks is a rookie who is performing around league average. He may get better, but THIS YEAR, he is not above average. Contreras has lost movement and velocity. He hasn't learned to survive on guile like he needs to, and so, he is now a bad pitcher. A lot can happen in 2 years. When you average the five of them out, the Sox do, in fact, have a solid, above-average rotation. But when your preseason plan is to have Podsednik and Erstad bat 1/2, run them into outs, bunt, slap sacrifice hits, etc, you're just BEGGING for your offense to not score a lot of runs. And just think, that was plan A. Now you're seeing plan B in action which is....Jerry Owens? He gets a spot on the roster while Ryan Sweeney plays AAA? Pierzynski has mediocre power, doesn't walk, and on good years, posts a decent batting average. He's an average catcher. Iguchi's underperforming this year, I grant you, was unexpected, and you're right, he is better than this. Uribe is bad. Anyone who thinks his overrated but still above average glove is worth his ridiculously low OBP is crazy. The best argument you can really make in your case is that the Crede injury and Dye/Iguchi being THIS bad is unexpected. But given the presence of Uribe, Podsednik, and Erstad in the lineup, added into aging of the veteran players, this offense never projected to be amazing.

One other thing. The community of Sox fans, "Soxdom" as Jay Mariotti would have it called, need to understand that Bobby Jenks is nothing special. Not at all. He was hot and great in 2005, and we loved him. And last year seemed successful too. You know what his ERA was last year? 4.00 even. He's just getting less lucky this year with regards to WHEN he gives up his runs. You want a closer to have a 4.00 ERA? Therefore, when we talk about the bullpen being crap, please talk about the WHOLE bullpen, not the bullpen minus Jenks. And a bad bullpen can KILL your team....look what it did to Cleveland last year. And our bullpen this year is worse than Cleveland's from last year.

I believe it was the arrogance of both Kenny Williams and Ozzie that has the Sox where they are. Williams' lashing of Frank Thomas is the best example of his arrogance as well as his failure to make any moves at the break last season, when the Sox were still solidly in the race.

As for Ozzie, one championship does not make you a hall of fame manager. As a basketball coach myself, I know that what I do and say can become a distraction for the team and may cause the team to lose focus. Ozzie, though he has humbled himself a little this year(did he have a choice?), was a definite distraction and you cannot minimize the impact he and his mouth have had on the teams focus.

Please don't forget the players, at one point, we had not one starter hitting more than .250 and you definitely cannot win with that.

So Kennys men in the Pen didn't come through, in April they were terrific. Certainly not his fault or Coops who works hard every day. The Bull Pen pitchers as a whole not executing lies only on their shoulders..Seems contagious so suppose it is...All this clamor about trading Javier Vazquez comes from a bunch of(KNOW NOTHINGS) Javy has the best stuff on the staff. With run support last Sept. could have had 4 more wins and this year another 3-4 as the same with Buerhle, Garland and Danks early on each of those 4 with 2-3 more wins would have the Sox in a decent position. Even with the firehouse out in the Pen...Give "Big Bobby" some slack , he is not perfect, but overall has done a superb job and the other 6 blown save by others. Ardsmann a big dissapoinment the way he was way-laying the baseball in April. He looked like the real deal. And will probably turn it around. Many hitters early on young, falter and come out of it and I will lay odds some of the Sox young power arms will rebound.. But yes #1 need a middle reiver and a short-stop with better offense.

Some say that Williams and Guillen are inept. I wish I could give those folks a better GM and field manager, and if I could, I would fire Williams and bring in Salty Saltwell or Ken Harrelson, or even Hendry, fire Guillen and bring in Terry Bevington or Preston Gomez and I assure you that the team will get fixed for the next 100 years or so. On top, as a bonus, I would add the Bill Veeck dog and pony shows to the program.

I am not saying that Williams and the team manager are error-free, but they are fairly good at what they do. They successfully put together a team that brought the first championship to Chicago in almost a century. They will again improve the team with some changes to its personnel.

Some folks blame Kenny and Ozzie for all bad things that have happened this year to the Sox, including injuries, slumps, bad pitching, etc. The Yankees of the old days fired their manager because he could ONLY lead the team to something like 8 pennants and 6 world series in 10 years. The Sox are not the Yankees, so this kind of scapegoating should not be emulated.

Very BAD!!!

The Sox are so bad this year that they couldn't even win a series from the Bad News Bears. The Sox may as well turn in their pinstripes and instead wear T-shirts that show they are proudly supported by Chico's Bail Bonds.

Victor and Don,

The fact of the matter is, many of the guys that aren't performing well were never projected to perform well in the first place before the season. Aardsma, Masset, and Cisco were PREDICTED to give up a lot of runs by PECOTA. They had a hot April, yes, but then the REALITY that they AREN'T GOOD PITCHERS set in. PECOTA predicted that Thornton would be worse than he would be in 2006, and anyone with common sense could tell you that a closer with a 4.00 ERA was bound to blow more s