Whether it's for this season or for the rest of his Cubs career, Mark Prior is done. It's always sad to see an athlete seriously injured in the prime of his career. Let the second-guessing start, did Dusty use him too much? Where was Larry Rothschild? Why did this happen?
And why wasn't this diagnosed sooner? Everyone just assumed Prior wasn't tough enough. That his nine trips to the disabled list reflected a lack of toughness. Well, guess what? He's had this shoulder injury for a while.
Someone will have to explain to me why pitchers nowadays can't be utilized like the pitchers of old. Guys used to pitch complete games, win or lose and hardly ever missed their turn. They even have the advantage of medical staffs who can help them get over injuries that used to shorten careers. Too much money too soon. One player actually make more on his own than most teams actually had to pay it's entire roster. Guaranteed contracts only mean that the players will be paid not that they will play. Who can actually tell me that questions about some players using steriods can't be answered with the glut of early injuries. I hate to say things about past players and now but the fans are being cheated by these players who don't play enough. Who knows what the answer is. Maybe the Cubs are just jinxed.
Prior was babied his whole career then Dusty Baker overworked him. The guy is just a head case and I don't feel sorry for him at all. One of the more unpleasant Cubs ever to put on the uniform. Physically and mentally, the guy is about as durable as Japanese crepe paper.
Prior was babied his whole career then Dusty Baker overworked him. The guy is just a head case and I don't feel sorry for him at all. One of the more unpleasant Cubs ever to put on the uniform. Physically and mentally, the guy is about as durable as Japanese crepe paper.
William
Good point...my take is that HGH and sterioids are not just for hitters. How can the "perfect mechanic guy" just suddenly break down year after year despite barely throwing. Forget about this overuse idea.
Prior has to be the biggest headcase ever. Dusty may have worked him a little hard, but he just never dug in and showed that he was determined to be a big league winner. Life is not always easy Mister Prior, you should have expected some bumps in the road, but you gotta give it all you got man. Things may have been better in Chitown if you simply smiled more, I really never ever saw you smile dude. If you had just cut loose a little, instead of worrying so much about every little tweak you felt in your right shoulder, you may have surprized yourself and started say a...winning streak. You should have shook off the aches and pains that most big league pitchers experience each and every season. Change your attitude Mark and you might still have a future, but not on the Northside of the Windy City.
The arm was not made to throw a baseball(almost side arm though), so any use is 'overuse'. I think the real issue is,will you post another topic on Mark Prior and(or) Kerry Wood? This blog has been seriously injured from beating this dead horse(thanks in advance for posting this-I know you will-as you are not as control hungry as a certain columnist with the initials M.M.), I just hope it maintains credibility for at least the rest of the season.
Rothschild should of been fired ,he has no clues on how to coach pitchers evidence shows that. With Prior & Wood pretty much finished cubs don't have to look very far to find culprits. Ex manager Dusty Baker had a history of over using pitchers as evidence from 03 & his managing with Giants. Rothschild probably is a bad as a coach as run them home Wendell was!It's a wonder he is still working for cubs? I have a associate who was a mlb trainer that lives near me in California & even he confirmed the over use of Prior & Wood. With a team 8-13 it is no wonder they still struggle despite 300 million payroll with a mind set like that.
I never understood what "Dusty overused Prior and Wood" was supposed to mean. That's just a convenient copout, go ahead and blame the easy target that's taking the blame for everything out (I'm not a Dusty Baker fan either so I don't want to hear anything about me taking his side.) I mean seriously... the 2003 season ended 3 1/2 years ago. Howcome so many other pitchers can handle the same workload? And as was mentioned in this blog, howcome other starting pitchers from 30 years ago didn't have any issues like this? No, nevermind. Just throw it in Dusty Baker's lap.
The funny and sad thing is, I bet Prior makes a full recovery, gets signed by another team, and becomes a Cy Young candidate.
Roman responds: Are you taking wagers?
Sometimes a guy is just no good. Overworked? Pahlease! Dusty did the right thing, he went for it all! Fans have been waiting almost a century. Dusty shot out all of the bullets in his gun and rightfully so! He didn't save anything because that coveted championship was theirs for the taking, but Florida wanted it more. Cubs just don't know when to cut a player. CUT Prior and Wood! Start over! I don't care if they both go out and win 300 games each. Let them go. Sometimes a player is no good for YOUR franchise. Risk the franchise on guys who are NOT injured - like Maddux.
Q) What did the erectile dysfunctional Cub fan say to Jim Hendry?
A) You can't rely on prior wood.
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Yes, I made this up...
Roman responds: This is a family blog, but funny is funny.
Why do we overpay these Legends BEFORE they prove themselves with a distinquished career?
Why do we have to blame Larry Rothschild and Dusty Baker?
Can't we expect Mr. Prior to take blame for his own body?
I was around back then, but I don't remember all of this much ado and confusion over one Fergy Jenkins.
He seemed to be pitching all the time.
The one guy we probably did trot to the mound too often was Bruce Sutter, but he did well.
Looks like Prior has been hurt for more than two years, and the cubs just now are realizing it?? Well, it took them 2 or 3 years to figure out Dusty Baker needed to go too. And they are still paying Lynch too??
If the cubs had a real owner and a real president, Hendry would be fired today. Not just for not handling prior and baker better but also for sticking Piniella with a bad roster that will take at least more 2 years to correct. Jones, Derosa, izturis and a catcher that can't catch, here ya go lou have fun with all that!
And Trading Maddux for Isturis is almost as bad a deal as Brock for Brogilio. Course, Hendry needed to keep spots open for wood and prior. Hendry got pantsed about 3 times by the dodgers last couple of years.
Hendry is really already history, cub fans just have to wait as usual for the SS (sinking ship)Tribune to finally jettison him, and his crew. A real owner would have demanded to clean house when all the minor league pitchers kept getting injured and all the position players didn't know how to bunt. Instead the cubs promote Quade to third base coach, unbelievable. Here ya go Lou, let's put the guy who couldn't communicate at triple A at third base coach.
100 years of ineptitude, and sadly for cub fans, no magic to this realism.
"When ignorance is bliss it is foolish to be wise". Prior will come back to embarass the Cubs like Brock did if they let him go. He had some freakish accidents and still knows how to pitch even if he can't throw 95. Sportswriters don't like a guy if he is not a good interview...sportswriters are not the "brightest bulbs" in the world. I am on the players side. I am a reporter myself and think most in the media all a bunch of want-to-be's. Yea Prior...boo to all the others!
I have to agree with the posters who asked why is it that people are claiming any pitcher is over used? when I was growing up most teams used a 4 man rotation and pitchers were judged not only by their ERA but how many complete games they pitched. the only time a fith started was used was when a double header(something we don't see now unless one of the games is a rain-out make-up game)would disrupt a pitchers days of rest. relief pitchers chomped at the bit to prove they were starters and pitch complete games. todays starters hope they can get 6 to 7 good innings and turn it over to a closer and still get a "W" next to their name. Buehrle's no-hitter was significant for two reasons....1) there are few no-hitters thrown in a season .....2) he pitched a complete game which is also a rarity in today's game. someone please explain to me what has changed!
Prior was too much of a baby?
This is the guy who came back early after the August 2003 collision on the base paths and pitched one of the most amazing months that Cubs fans have ever seen?
In my view, you are qualified to call Prior a baby, and accuse him of a lack of toughness, if you have personal knowledge of the condition of his shoulder for the past three years. Otherwise, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Regarding why pitchers can't seem to handle the workloads as much as they used to, I think it has to do with the fact that pitchers have to throw a lot harder, and with a lot harder breaking stuff, than they did in the days of Fergie Jenkins. Second basemen, shortstops, and catchers (mostly) are a lot more likely to be decent hitters than they were thirty years ago. Bats are harder, parks are smaller, so pitchers can't ease up at all when facing the bottom of the order.
And for every pitcher who proved himself able to handle the higher workloads in the old days, there are probably countless examples of pitchers who broke down early.
The first post and the made up joke post have given the best observation about pitchers in the 21st century. Yet, why do pitchers fall apart so easily today? Maybe this will help.
From 1876-1892, pitchers threw from fifty feet and exerted less stress on their arms (also pitchers often threw underhand in this era). In this era, innings pitched totals of 600 innings were not uncommon.
In 1892, pitchers moved back to sixty feet. However, they still often threw 400 innings in a season. This was because the home run was far less common and pitchers often conserved arm strength throughout the game.
From 1920 to the 1980s, the four man rotation was well established. Pitchers could no longer throw 400 innings in a season, as the home run meant a run could be scored at any time. The league leader in innings pitched often threw somewhat more than 300 innings. Occasionally, innings pitched would spike, as in the early 1970s, when Wilbur Wood pitched 376 2/3 innings in one season.
From the 1980s to the present, the four man rotation was replaced with the five man rotation, with a weak fifth man who would often be skipped on off days. Also, managers starting using their bullpens more and more, accelerating the decline in innings pitched. Today, rarely more than one pitcher a league pitches more than 250 innings, let alone 300.
No wonder Warren Sphan, Cy Young and Satchel Paige could pitch for such a long time without getting hurt. Present day pitchers do not throw underhanded or really conserve arm strength. I cannot think of the guy's name, but he used to throw underhanded for the Cubbies back in the 60's or 70's. I use to think it was a gimmick, but I see now he really was keeping stress off of his arm. Plus he did strike out a heck of a lot of people.
So guys we can't fault the pitchers of today when they fall apart. If using the formula from pervious eras, teams really need seven good pitchers to keep the wear and tear down on their arms regardless of how sturdy they are. I never looked at it that way before, but I will now.
Can you imagine someone pitching 400-600 innings nowadays? Hell we lucky if you get 150 out of them, with the stress they put on their arms.
Maybe I'm confused...for at least a few years, Prior had been complaining about initially an achilles, and then an elbow. Turns out it's his shoulder? WHAT?
CUBS FANS LETS BE HONEST. HOW MANY OF YOU WOULD HAVE PUT YOUR BODY THROUGH WHAT K WOODS & M PRIOR HAVE PUT THEM SELVES THROUGH TO MAKE IT BACK? THEY HAVE MONEY SO TOUGHNESS SHOULD NOT BE QUESTIONED.IF YOU HURT AN ANKLE YOU WILL MAKE ADJUSTMENT IN THE WAY YOU WALK TO COMPENSATE FOR THE ONE THATS HURT,THE BOTTOM LINE IS HE COMPLAINED AND NO ONE BELIEVED SO HE DID WHAT HE HAD TO DO TO TRY AND MAKE IT WORK, SO U SEE ACHILES TO ELBOW EQUALS A BAD SHOULDER THAT HE COULD NOT HIDE ANYMORE, NOW THE SAME CLOWNS WHO DID NOT BELIVE IS GOING TO GIVE UP ON HIM AND AS USUAL WATCH HIM ELSE WHERE AND BRING HIM BACK WHEN HE IS IN THE FINAL STAGE OF HIS CAREER. TAKE THE YEAR OFF MARK AND YOU TOO KERRY AND COME BACK STRONG. REMEMBER YOU HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE KERRY YOU HAVE DONE EVERYTHING TO MAKE IT BACK AND MARK NO ONE LISTENED TO YOU. GOOD LUCK GENTLEMEN AND SHAME ON ALL OF US CUBS FAN FOR NOT REALIZING ABD BELIEVING HOW HARD YOU HAVE WORKED.
Another thing about pitchers: with the increase in overall teams there is a lot of dilution in good pitchers and hitters. I really liked your post PITCHERs of... I like when someone teach me something that I did not know. I just feel that players overall are better suited to get over injuries better than bygone players. Tommy John surgery is so normal and so much better than even the one Tommy John actually had. These guys don't need to do anything but get ready for the season. Guys used to be used car salesman and school teachers in the off season. Now it's a year round career. I just think that guys just don't prepare like they did before. Why throw harder if the batters are worse. I think guys threw as hard as they could. Still on their level they would have broken down. Try a knuckle ball. Once a player hit the 90s on his pitch that's all that matters. Guys don't even have a repetroire of pitches now. Hit the 90s: hit the jackpot money-wise and take that gauranteed money to the bank. At least they're not faking injuries. With the MRIs and CTs we know immediately if something is wrong. Guys used to pitch until their arm almost fell off. The good ole days.
HAHA... no Roman I'm not taking wagers, I was just being sarcastic... although I would not at all be surprised if Prior turned into a dominant pitcher on another team. It's just the way the Cubs' cookie crumbles for some reason and one of those things that can't be explained.
If you remember at the end of spring training, Prior was upset that he was not going north with the team. So for this to have been discovered earlier Prior would have had to tell the medical staff that there was something wrong. He maintained he was healthy and ready to pitch.
The uderhanded pitcher was Tewksberry I believe.
I have mixed feelings about the guy.
What Dusty did to him in 2003 was criminal -- he pitched him 235 innings after he had thrown less than 170 between Double-A, Triple-A, and the Cubs in 2002 (the recommended increased interval is 30 per year), and that's with Prior missing a couple of weeks mid-season. And he and Wood were two of the top three in the majors in pitches thrown per start. He and Wood threw over 130 pitches in several starts, and 29 other managers in the majors didn't allow any of their pitchers to ever do that because it seemed like a bad idea.
That being said, I don't expect a guy's career to end because of being overworked four seasons ago. Maybe that was a direct result, maybe it wasn't. We'll never know. It's been my experience that an overworked pitcher normally has injury issues 2-3 years after the overuse, then often returns to normal (see Joe Borowski, who Dusty ran out there for an insane 96 relief innings in 2002 -- more than any NL pitcher threw in 2006).
Steve H. is right about conserving during games against weaker hitters before the current juiced-ball-and-player era, and I also think more pitchers that are injury-prone rely on excessive exaggerated breaking balls. Why doesn't Maddux get hurt? He changes speeds and worries more about location than tight curves, which require a violent arm motion.
And guys get overworked in college all the time, which might also explain Prior's demise.
One more thing: Pitchers throw curve balls too early when they're kids. The Reds' team doctor here in Cincinnati -- who's a total quack -- recently did Tommy John surgery ON AN 11-YEAR-OLD!!! Kids should be taught to change speeds and the eye level of batters, and not even allowed to throw curves until their bodies are at least developed past puberty.
Good riddance!!!
This is the other John....I'm a WHITE SOX FAN. We got our own problems. Therefore, I don't care about Mark, one way or the other.
If we might owe Prior an apology what about Mr. Bonds? I speak in light of recent comments produced by Kurt Schilling and the current insane pace that he is on to break Hank Aaron's Home Run record. Say and think what you want about the man, what he is doing THIS YEAR - is nothing short of amazing. We no longer have the crutch of steroids to support our reasons for thumbing the man, and neither does baseball. It has ALWAYS been my personal policy to not judge anyone except on the basis of the facts, especially where there are issues that only effect their own personal lives. That goes for Imus, Jackson, President Clinton, The Duke Team, The Bears tight end, and even Barry Bonds.
Since he is still hitting home runs like Babe Ruth, are we willing to give this man credit? I think its time to stop hatin and start congratulatin.