Rex Grossman or Jim McMahon

It depends on what you are looking at.

McMahon was not a great passer. I've seen better spirals from falling debris than Jim had. Jim had Suhey and Payton taking a huge load off of him (not to knock T.Jones, but McKie will nevr be confused with Suhey and TJ just will never run like Walter).

But McMahon had the D on his side. It was an entirely different relationship. They went out together, partied together, basically they were inseperable.

McMahon was brash and abrasive to all BUT those on his team, and wouldn't be the one to back down from a fight, on field or off.

Rex is a gifted passer. His tight spirals are a thing of beauty and rarely does a WR have to come back or stop for a ball to catch up to them. He also doesn't have 'manos de piedras' Willie Gault as a primary target.

If you were to put Rex on the '85 team, the results may have been the same in the W/L columm, but the points scored by the offense would increase by 35%. There would have been more blowouts, and the D would have rested quite a bit more.

Payton and Suhey might have been able to combine for 3000 yards on the ground since it would be a rare team with two players assigned to Walter, as was the case for most of McMahon's years here.

This isn't really a competition. They are both winners, but one is a real QB with talent, while the other was a QB with pure heart and some great luck and D.

Grossman wins hands down.

What you should really ask is where are all those who wanted Orton to stay the #1 QB last season and had not one positive thing to say about Rex until a few weeks ago.

I love grossman right now but, Jimmy mac gets my vote for several reasons.One, McMahon has a ring, thats first, period. Grossman still is learning one thing a lot of people do not realize about McMahon is how much he understood football. He was one of THE smartest QB'S to play the game. He still has one of the highest winning percentages ever. Unfortunately, he could not stay healthy. I also think McMahon handled pressure better. I think Grossman has a chance to be great but for now... "Jimmy, Jimmy mac when are you coming back Oh Jimmy, Jimmy mac....

This isn't even close. The punky QB by a long shot. When McMahon called a huddle it was special. He was a leader of men. Grossman still looks timid and indecisive most of the time. Rex could go down as one of the best if this team wins it all. But until then and even if he does, Jim McMahon is the victor here. P.S. McMahon was one of the best College QB's of his era.

People seem to forget the # of games McMahon started and finished...NOT MANY. If they Bears had someone like Brian Griese start for them consistently back from 1984 through 1988, they could have easily won 3 SBs. Instead we were saddle with Steve Fuller, Mike Tomszak, Doug Flutie, etc. Someone above said McMahon has the D on his side? That was until he spent more time with one ailment or another. McMahon will go down in history as the one of the most over-rated players in history..right next to Joe Namath.

First: GregY--I'm still a Kyle Orton fan, I still think he's got the biggest upside, and I still don't trust Rex, who still gets a little too scared when people get within twenty feet of him. Fortunately, Rex is playing so well right now that it's not much of an issue (for the record, I came out in favor of Rex in Grossman-Griese preseason debate, and I also recognized from day 1 that Orton needs at least a year to get those mechanics down).

Second--this isn't much of a question at this point, because although Rex is a better pure passer than McMahon was, McMahon had more guts. Part of the reason why he was injured all the time was because he stepped up in the pocket and took the hit. Granted, he was pretty fragile, but he wasn't playing behind the line Rex has always had. In short: Rex has the arm, but Jim had the heart--and the brains, because he had great field vision. (Calling Jim McMahon overrated is a bit extreme; he never was touted as anything other than a flashy team player with a decent arm and nice touch.)

K.Brown hits this on the nose: until Rex brings home some bling, his skills are second to Jim's heart.

lets see, hollywood or indiana farm boy??????????? whats next we compare red grange and cedric bensin? i dont care as long as they can get the job done and get us to the show and quiet all the cridics and nah sayers.

Grossman is having a very good run right now, but you need more time to see how he performs over an entire season. McMahon was statstically one of the best quarterbacks to ever play NCAA football and at the time time he was was drafted held many records. With the Bears he is one of the very few quarterbacks that I have ever seen that had a sixth sense about the plays unfolding in front of him on the field. He led more 4th quarter Bear comebacks than I can remember and he was at his best underpressure. It was unfortunate the injuries took their toll because he could have been even better if he had played more.

The main difference...and this is HUGE...when Grossman was injured, he rehabbed, studied, and prepared for when he would be ready to play again. McMahon, when injured, went about poisoning the relationship between the team and whatever QB was playing. If he hadn't been such a prima donna, and supported the players who had to produce because he was hurt, the Bears certainly would have won more than one Super Bowl. With all the rhetoric about why the '85 Bears only won one championship, the blame can be laid squarely at the fragile feet of No. 9. Great quarterback...but his "punky QB" moniker is pretty accurate. The guy was a punk.

I don't think the comparison is even the slightest bit fair yet. Grossman's entire career amounts to about 1 full season. We haven't really even seen Rex Grossman's best yet and we have a whole career to look back on for McMahon. This can only be done in all fariness years from now.

Darryl, where, exactly, did I call McMahon overrated?

Heart means much, but this isn't the movie "The Replacements'. The '85 D won those games and won the superbowl. It was the '85 D that scared Tony Eason into missing his first (and only) passes int eh game. It was the pounding from the D he got early in the season that made him founder.

The Bears '85 D brought home the 'bling', not McMahon. Even Tomzack won with the Bears D, Exactly how Orton won last year.

If you wnt to compare Orton, don't do it to the guy the 'brought home the bling' in McMahon, or a true threat in the field such are Grossman, but a capable back up such as Tomzack.

It's a great thing to be a fan of a player, but both Orton and Grossman have had time to play with the same Bears D. Look at the stats of the two. Orton doesn't even show up on the same field as Rex with similar game experiance between the two.

Everyone that knocked Rex (and I am sure you were one of them because this is an Orton fan mantra) do it because of his injury history and thinking he is fragile. Yet fragile is OK with someone like McMahon.

Not rational reasoning there. It's not Rex Grossman that's afraid to take a hit, it's Kyle Orton fans that are afraid of Rex taking a hit.

History-wise;I'll take Jim.Promising wise I'll take Rex.If he stays healthy and win us a Superbowl the tide would turn.Almost anyone you pick off this team wouldn't stack up against 85 because they got the ring.Overall Jim was an a$$ who couldn't stay healthy and divided this team when it mattered most.No,he did not have the backing of his D.Most of them didn't like he was hurt.He hung out with his off.line and I can't speak for anyone on D that he associated with.Hampton spoke out about him every chance he got.The man had too much ego.The kind that has helped ruin the game.That dig against the Rozelle was self-serving.It was like look at me I'm a rebel.If that guy had stayed healthy and dedicated himself to playing we could have won way more trophies.The fact that he didn't get into football shape at any time he was here was the most damning.Even though he missed almost half of the games in 85.I still think that Payton,the off.line and the D won it for us in 85.Almost anyone could have won with our D,at QB.That said,GO BEARS!!

I would prefer to have Mcmahon goig into the playoffs. Grossman has played better than I expected so far. My only worry is the playoffs, when the intensity gets ratched up about 5 levels. I can only hope grossman doesn't get rattled and try to win the game himself.
Mcmahon was a great field general who always had the capacity to reverse the course of a game with his incredible will to win. If we had Griese to back him up we would have won 3 Sbs just like Mark had said. So I guess the ideal situation would be Jim Mac w/ Grise in the wings.
Having said that, we don't really know yet about Rex in a winner take all game. He still hasn't played a whole season yet. I hope he proves me to be so wrong I get kicked out of my bar for being obnoxious when he takes the superbowl MVP award.

im not gonna try to make the call here why people are bringing up what jimmy mac did in college i dont know was,nt grossman a pretty good college qb the sec is a whole lot different than the wac boys enjoy the season lets hope we have a repeat of 85

I'd go with McMahon but Rex is closing the gap. Playing as well as McMahon did in the post season will pull him even.

When Grossman wins a super bowl, I'll take him, but until then, McMahon has my vote.

Grossman is a better tooled QB than McMahon in everyway. McMahon won a super bowl, great, so did Trent Dilfer. I am pretty sure Moses Moreno could have won a Super Bowl with the 85 Bears' D and Walter Payton. McMahon, because of his behavior and attitude, has grown into a folk tale in Chicago. He wasn't as good as people want to remember him being. Recall his stats in 85: 15 TDs 11 INTs, 2,392 yards...and these were his career highs. McMahon never had more than 12 TD passes in any other season and threw for more than 2,000 yards 4 times in his career.

Give me Grossman everyday of the week.

Let's all relax. Can we let it go that Jimmy Mac won a superbowl. Rex is playing well right now and is our first QB with healthy weapons in years. The comparison can't be made yet as this is Rex's first full season. If this continues than it is a no brainer. It is Rex. But let's wait until the playoffs. Either way Go BEARS!!!!!!

McMahon was a strong leader, who was given the ball in excellent field position a majority of the time by the great Bear defense.

This years defense is certainly one of the best in many years, but really hasn't been tested yet by a top team.

Grossman is still a rookie in # of games played, and while he has performed well, it's too early to rate him better then McMahon or even compare them.

Let the season unfold, and see how the Bears do under some really tough pressure like they are sure to get from the NY Giants & NE Patriots, and St.Louis Rams on the road, then we can have something to base a comparison.

Alright, everyone in here who keeps saying, "McMahon has a ring, he's won a superbowl, yadda yadda yadda..." That's all fine and dandy but the title of this discussion is McMahon as a QB VS. Grossman as a QB.

Let's be realistic, McMahon was a great LEADER, but a mediocre QB. He was good because of one man and we all know it, whether you say it or not, Walter Payton. Teams focused their defense on Payton, which allowed McMahon to make the throws he made (most of which the receivers had to really work to catch... not pretty)

NO ONE can deny Rex is a better QB. We're not talking about who has a ring, who's won what, blah blah blah. That's like putting Walter Payton up against another running back and saying, "well this other running back scored a TD in the SuperBowl so he's obviously better..." What? Don't gimme that crap. Walter Payton may not have scored once during the 86 SuperBowl but he's still the best based on his stats.

Rex wins hands down. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge McMahon fan, but if you pit Grossman against McMahon, Grossman wins easily.

Grossman has more arm strength and accuracy by FAR. His throws are gunslinger quick and precise. And the biggest factor, Grossman doesn't have a Walter Payton type running back opening up the passing game.

It's clear Grossman wins, I don't care what anyone says.

It is hard to really compare Rex and McMahon. Jim was the right player for the right team. He had an aura about him that the team rallied around. I think Rex is the right guy for this team, plus he seems willing to learn from his mistakes. We shal see come Feb. I like Orton too, but it is hard to knock Rex's results. 3000 yards passing through his first 16 games. He will have his biggest test in a couple weeks with NY, NY, and NE. I think he can pass it with flying colors.

Let's not slight McMahon. He is why we got the trophy. Teams always focused on Walter and so did N.E. They shut him down. With a bum at QB no way we win the SB. McMahon and the D made it happen. Matt Suhey had a nice game.

McMahon's talent is too often understated. Watching some of McMahon's Bears, McMahon and Grossman look earily similar as "passers." The fact that McMahon was an inspirational leader of the team overshadows what he was able to do on the field when we look back on him.

McMahon and Grossman threw/throw routes within 20 yards of the LoS almost equally well. The difference is that Grossman throws deep routes much better. They both made/make decisions that make you scratch your head on a fairly regular basis. Rex, this season, has perhaps gotten away with those decisions more than McMahon did.

On the other hand, Grossman is accomplishing somewhat more as a "passer" with significantly less to work with than McMahon had. McMahon's Bears could run at will when they needed to. This current incarnation is sadly lacking a running attack capable of dominating when need be.

But the biggest problem comparing the two at this point is that, in this time and place, our view of Rex is far greater than the reality. He's a nice quarterback with a competent offense and a truly great defense that helps the team be a winner. On an average team Rex would look far far more average himself.

Fun but silly debate. They are very different. Although McMahon was an underrated passer (see '80 Holiday Bowl and '85 week three in Minnesota), Grossman makes throws that McMahon couldn't make. And I agree with Ray from Mishawaka that McMahon wasn't nearly as committed off the field in terms of conditioning and rehabbing. But once McMahon got his ailing body between the lines he was a mental giant. You could not rattle him. He didn't care about anything but winning. There was an intangible quality both on an off the field that couldn't be measured by anything but wins and the fun fans had rooting for the '85 Bears. I think Rex is an improving, solid QB and I love his arm and attitude. But Jim doesn't get rattled on Monday night in the desert; nor does he get rattled in a home playoff game. We'll see how Rex does in this year's playoffs. Bottom line…statistics (especially in the case of QBs) are for losers – if Grossman wins one Super Bowl, he'll be equal to McMahon; if he wins multiple, he'll be better than McMahon. GO BEARS!

Some of you guys really hit the nail on head in regards to Jimmy-Mac.I thought I was the only one who felt he let us down more than anything when it came to us not winning for SBs and not being a team player when it mattered most.You guys are realistic fans who aren't hoodwink by the feelgood vibe from winning the SB in 85.That said,GO BEARS!!

Let's not forget that McMahon played under a head coach who wasn't exactly enamored with the forward pass. Many of McMahon's big pass plays came off of audibles. I think McMahon would have put up more impressive numbers with Norv Turner calling the plays. As for who I'd pick, can I choose Rex at home and Jimmy Mac on the road?

Let's not get ahead of our selves here. I think Rex has not played over 14 games yet. The true test will come when the defensive coordinators figures out the offense. The true test of a quaterback is how he adjusts. Lets talk again on week 13. Sheldon the #1 Cub fan.

I think that Jimmy Mac was the right qb during that era and I think that Rex Grossman is the right qb for this era. Rex has the opportunity to put up some eyepopping numbers this season but remember when Jimmy Mac played, he was told not to lose the game. Rex Grossman has more freedom to run the offense.

Two totally different styles. McMahon=Kenny Stabler. Grossman= watered down Brett Favre. Grossman is too early in his career. Chance to be really good. Winning a Super Bowl will help. McMahon always knew what to do and when to do it. He scored TD's in the red zone. His job was to win games, and he did. My pick: McMahon

I don't know how you can compare the two. I like McMahon. I recall defenders in the playoffs saying that McMahon could read defenses so well that he intimidate the best of them. But. how can you compare the two. Quaterbacks in the 80's were subject to rules different then 2000's. Today quarterbacks are protected by all kinds of rules. I don't think they had the sliding rule in effect back in the 80's. Defenders were allowed to hold receivers at the line and down field. I think the hash marks were further apart at that time. All the rules and changes since then have favored offense. Point is they didn't even play in the same enviroment conditions. So, how can you compare. McMahon played during a more physical time.

The punky QB rules.

Having played only 7 games this season, Grossman cannot be rated in any way.

A lot of people overlook the fact that in 1985 (1) McMahon was a Pro Bowler, (2) the Bears led the league in points scored, and (3) the Bears led the NFC in total offense (only San Diego in the AFC was ahead of them).

The Super Bowl champs are deservedly known for their defense. However, their offense was the best in the league as well.

McMahon's leadership and clutch play should also be noted. Grossman just ain't there yet.

Greg--I think you might have misunderstood my post--not once did I insinuate that you called McMahon overrated. However, the gentleman whose post is immediately above mine did. I'd hoped segmenting my post into two distinct items would clearly indicate I was responding to separate things--however, I must not have been clear.

With that said, you seem to be under the impression that I think Orton is, at present a better quarterback than Grossman. At the moment, I don't--but, as I've repeatedly mentioned, if he can get out of the mentality that he only needs his arm to throw completions and gets his footwork down, he'll be just as good as (if not better than) Rex. Frankly, comparing the two quarterbacks as they are isn't really possible--Kyle has barely-mediocre numbers against good defenses in a brand-new system he wasn't even supposed to be using last year (coming off an injury-plagued senior year in college), while Rex has (thusfar) pretty good numbers against weak opponents, pedestrian numbers against Minnesota, that debacle in Arizona (which I personally feel is an aberration), a good game against a very tough Seattle D, and a history of injuries and inopportune interceptions. I've repeatedly mentioned my pleasure and surprise that Rex has been as consistently good as he currently has been; right now, there's no doubt in my mind that he should be starting. With that said, anyone who denies the fact that he is prone to losing his poise is deluding themselves.

You can teach someone to throw better, read defenses better, or make faster decisions. It's a lot harder to teach someone to keep his cool and do all of these things when there are people coming at him from all sides. McMahon had that kind of poise. Orton has that kind of poise. Rex is really, really good at losing that kind of poise, and that's what worries me about him.

Frankly, if anyone really wants to talk about a quarterback riding a superior defense, how can we not talk about Rex? Again, I'm not denying the fact that he's played really well for the most part--but we still have Robbie Gould kicking a lot of field goals in the red zone. Maybe that's coaching, but still--it's worth mentioning, and indicative of my original point--I'm not denying Rex is skilled by any stretch of the imagination, but until he's got that ring on his finger (or plays a few complete seasons), I stick with McMahon.

Its AS SIMPLE AS THIS BOYS!

You cant compare these two QBs just like u cant compare the 85 d vs this years D two different time periods.

But hears the facts the 85 team was a team full of nut jobs guys that would go out there and rip the heads of of anybody they played and didnt care who they were playing they were cocky talented and by far the best team ever McMahon fit that to a tee because he was just as looney the psycho general that kept the offense in order. Please dont ever 4 get the headbands he just fit the team.
Grossman is obviously the more talented but wouldnt have jelld well with the 85 team, but hes doing great with this team and soon might join mcmahon as a ring holder.Bottom line Mcmahon has one and Grossman will be fitted for one soon
Go Cubs!

Are we comparing these players in their careers or for this year compared to the super bowl year? if its careers i'll take jimmy mac ,thats obvious

This is just PLAIN dumb. Jim was one of the best QB in history. When he left the Bears he had the highest winning % of ALL-Time in the NFL. Comparing Rex 2 the man is an INSULT.

Roman said '06 vs. '85. So we're not comparing careers. Yes, they are from different eras so you have to evaluate each guy relative to his era along with each player's talent, intelligence, personality and experience. Either guy would have fit in just fine with the other team. They total up even to me except Rex has not finished his season yet with a SB victory. If that happens, they're back to even again.

A couple of the post's state it's a QB comparison and jimmy mac winning a ring does not matter. Of course it matters!! That's why EVERY QB plays the game to win the superbowl. To just dismiss this fact is just nuts. As one fan pointed out j.mac had one of, if not the highest winning percentage ever. Believe me when I say, no McMahon, no superbowl. People who say he did not care about the team or give 100% are crazy. When is the last time a QB played with a lacerated kidney and was pissing blood afterwards? McMAHON was a leader and knew how to win. i think grossman has the potential to be great but, only time will tell. It IS all about the ring and McMahon has one. It took over 20 YEARS to even have this debate. To say McMahon was the reason we did not win any more superbowls is CRAZY the orginization started tearing that team down right after the superbowl! Jim McMahon was and is the best QB the bears ever had. Now its time for rex to go out and take McMahon's title.

For me, it'll be Jim McMahon over Rex Grossman because McMahon had the experience. Rex Grossman is still learning, but he's not like the 'PUNKY QB.' Jim (McMahon) may be outrageous during the '85 season, but he really was the man.

Frank... Good post. Many good points.

Based on the first 14 games of their careers Rex wins this one - based on stats. But overall, Jim wins it because he won it all in 85! Now if Rex wins the SB this year I would say overall he wins it - again based on his stats.

first for "Mark" - Kyle Orton has "upside?" He's essentially the 21st century Bob Avellini. Decent arm with slow reflexes/reactions and even slower feet. He won't even be a Bear by 2009.

McMahon or Grossman? Until Rex wins it all, it's McMahon. McMahon didn't have Grossman's gifts, but he was incredibly smart and could read defenses from the moment he showed up in Lake Forest with a Budweiser in his hand. Rex has more talent, but he's still developing/learning. McMahon was a Super Bowl champion by his 4th season.

Hey Roman if the question is who's better the player of that year or career?Year I'd take Rex because if he played in 3 more games he'd play in more games than J-Mac did that year.Our running game pulled us out of the fire more that year.If you take out the Minnesota game where they came back,they would have probably been 14-2.Still enough to get the #1 seed.And win the SUPERBOWL in the same fashion.THE MOST impressive game that year was Dallas,where we won 44-0.The D kicked major butt.The QB;Steve Fuller.The Mac wasn't suited up that game.We beat AMERICA's team in their own backyard.SPANKED them.How many QBs get their kidneys lacerated?That only means someone kicked your butt and you didn't wear a flack-jacket.Does Simms get browny points because he played until his spleen gave out?It still means he goy his A$$ kicked.Rex is pulling these games out and producing without a strong running game.If he had Payton and Suhey we'd probably win 35-6 darn near every game.Jimmy Mac was never the strength of our offense.It was our running game.Yeah,he pulled us out of a few games but we actually won as much without him.Fuller would have got us to the Superbowl.Because of him and with him we won some guys that Jimmy Mac couldn't play in.Career wise,what's the difference.Through 4 years neither one actually played a great deal of the time due to injuries.Not as many as you'd like your QB to miss.GO BEARS

Some of you guys say that Rex has to play a whole season doesn't realize that Jimmy Mac NEVER played a full season.No major player left the BEARS after 85.Only Gault.Don't tell me we missed Gault that much that we couldn't repeat.Mac got hurt early and losing BUDDY RYAN was huge.But our D got statically better.We even got 2 very good players back.Jimmy Mac could not intimidate too many defenses.Who worried about those wobbly passes?He didn't throw too many TDs or INTs because he didn't have to throw much with #34 in the backfield.Rex has him beat in every static across the board during this year compared to 85 and we're only in our 7th game.Stop living in the past and get a taste of the future.GO BEARS!!

We may go to the super bowl, but we'll never win it with WRECKS Grossman at the helm. He has a lot of growing up to do. Written at halftime

Rex or McMahon ? Rex hasn't won any big games for bears & may not the way he plays. He got bailed out versus cardinals a couple mondays ago. This time another awful team just exposed Rex & his reckless brainless play. Until Rex Qb's bears to a super bowl ring should be no comparing him with McMahon.Lovie has to make a change or Bears will have one of the most memorable collapses ever!Rex has been exposed ! I

I guess after that horrible performance against miami we can lay this debate to rest. Grossman is NO WHERE near McMahon. PERIOD, END OF STORY!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember this. The Bears had a great defense in '84,'85, '86, '87, and '88. They only won one super bowl though. Happened to be the year that McMahon was for the most part healthy. He put them over the top. As for Rex the wonder chicken...He's nothing more than Rusty Lisch incarnate. The Bears will be 7-4 in three weeks.

Rex the Great is a DONUT. Plain and simple.

Well, after miami game not much more to add. I was going to say that McMahon played what 15 years in the nfl, and rex has played now 17 games? So, what's to compare? Check back with me in a decade or so. Also after the ariz. and miami games, maybe bear fans will realize what the rest of the league already knows. Besides being injury prone, rex is immobile and not just because he is slow. If he moves he loses his sight lines because he is also short. And worst of all, he has itty bitty hands so he can't grip the ball when its cold or dry conditions, so he fumbles and his passes sail on him. Even in that sprint commercial he has to use 2 hands to hold the little phone!

BOBBY DOUGLAS...OVER BOTH OF THEM.

At least Douglass could run. ALL teams know all you have to do is put a little pressure on Grossman and he is done. He is GUARNTEED to make a costly turnover. He hold's the ball out at his sides the whole time he is getting pressured, just waiting for the defense to smack it out of his hands. How can such a "Great" college QB have such HORRIBLE mechanics. High school QB'S learn to take care of the ball better!

agrayesq... we had a pretty good D in '83 too. I think we were #1 vs the run that season. You're right about McMahon making the difference. Have faith in Rex, he can be the guy we need at QB.

I think our coaches are too soft and too lazy. They've got these big shot, loads of talent, high priced players and maybe they are afraid to get in their face and make them play the way the coach wants them to play. Or maybe the coaches think these guys have all this talent and get the big bucks so they should be able to do every complicated thing we ask just because we asked them. Well a lot of these guys need coaching. Every day in their face, get it right or don't play. Soft coaches breed lazy players and lazy players lose games! Just like on Sunday.

And no... I'm not saying everybody has to be perfect and never, ever make a mistake, or every player and coach on the team is lazy, or all the coaches are afraid of the players.

for one thing, you really can't compare the quarterbacks.....grossman is still basically a rookie while mcmahon didn't a super bowl until his fourth year of his career. mcmahon wasn't overrated, in fact his skills were wasted because of the running game, and the fact that ditka wasn't a pass happy coach. mcmahon may be the greatest qb in college football history, but he was just an average passer in the pros. but he did have heart, something i truly believe rex grossman will never acquire. grossman could have all the talent in the world, but if you don't have the guts which is essential to be a successful qb, you won't be considered great. true, back in 1985 the defense was so good that mickey mouse could have qb'd them to the superbowl, but mcmahon had the heart that was evident very early on, it was just a matter of time before he won the super bowl. for all the people who said that the bears could have won more superbowls if mcmahon wasn't so obnoxious, just remember this, being impartial, the 1985 bears were the biggest one hit wonder in sports history, hands down... how many hall of famers from that team other than payton, singletary, and dan hampton. another reason that the bears didn't win more championships is that they had many old players, for instance, gary fencik was drafted in 1976....i can name at least ten teams that were better than the 85 bears....here are they,
77 cowboys
75,76,78 steelers
84,89,94 49ers
2004 patriots
1998 broncos
1991 redskins
and of course, the 72 dolphins
let's face it, the 85 bears weren't fit to be a dynasty, that's why they only won one.
p.s. chicago will go to the superbowl, but they will lose to new england!!!

Give me a break . Rex is no Jim McMahom. Jim was by far a better player. Jim could through a ball better then anyone I have ever seen on the Bears yet. Over rated hmm maybe you were not watching in 85. It was Dikas fault we had no repeat. .....

Oh by the way we lost....Quaterback matters

Bears weren't fit to be a dynasty? The only reason the Bears didn't repeat in 86 was because of the cheapshot by the Packers DE. You know, when he body slammed McMahon unto his throwing shoulder and ruined his season and hurt his career(and the Bears dynasty). That doesn't happen and the Bears have McMahon at qb instead of Flutie, they go all the way, again. The Bears were almost invincible with McMahon at QB. Just good without.

As far as McMahon's stats. When you have Payton in the backfield, running for 1500+ yards in leading the #1 rushing team in the NFL and have a defense that gives you GREAT field position, then your passing starts aren't goign to be great because they don't have to be. The Bears still were tops(or very close to it) in the league in scoring and yardage on offense. And McMahon delivered in the clutch, somethign Grossman hasn't proved that he can do yet.

There is absolutely no comparison. Rex Grossman cannot handle pressure, cannot deliver in the clutch, and doesn't have the win-at-all-cost attitude that McMahon had. MacMahon's talents were underrated. He broke 71 NCAA records in college. He established himself as the best play-action passer in the game and let's not forget what he was best at...reading a defense better than any NFL QB. That's why he and Ditka were at odds most of the time. Ditka, in his ego as coach, wanted to call every play, which makes sense. However, Ditka didn't have the view to see the defense line up like McMahon did. When McMahon changed Ditka's calls based on the defensive line positioning, Ditka went ballistic. I think over time, Ditka finally began to realize McMahon's talent and gave him a lot of leeway.

Yes, McMahon had the advantage of the best runing back in the league and the best defensive squad ever to play the game, but still there is no comparison. McMahon wins hands down. McMahon's only drawback was that he was injured so dang often, he could have been so much better if he had stayed healthy.

You know after reading this whole thread years after it is even relevant I want you to know how much the football spirits are laughing at you.

Rex Grossman stinks, Kyle Orton was always better you were just scared to say so because it wasn't popular at the time...however, neither of these guys are better than McMahon who might be the most underrated QB of the last 3 decades, probably, due to injury.

However I broke down his W-L record POST Chicage and I believe it's 25-6. Numbers, actions speak louder than words. The guy is a winner.

That also includes an often overlooked NFL comeback player of the year in Philly.

You chicago guys have no loyalty, they love Jimmy Mac in Philly.

Maybe you ouught to look at the Bears record without him.

You know what's ironic about that is Jimmy Mac's record as a QB is actually better percentage wise without the bears. That's not a slight against the bears, if I didn't like the bears I wouldn't be posting here, I'm just saying from a mathematical point of view.

This obviously does not apply to everyone here, but the ones that do will know, and like Jimmy Mac, I couldn't care less, you see fellas, you can put all the spin on it you want, but there is one statistic that ultimately matters in ANY sport, any time, any where, and that's wins and losses.

Jim McMahon did that.

Did he do it alone? No, of course not, it's a team sport.

Did he have injury problems? Hell yeah.

Do people who do not understand the basic fundamentals of football chalk his success up to just being an 85 bear? Yes.

But you know what?

Analyze it any way you want: Jim McMahon is a "PROVEN WINNER".

Oh by the way, where is your pwecious wittle Wex Gwossman now?

Idiots, I'm surrounded by idiots.

Anyone who knows anything about football, knows Jim McMahon is a hall of fame level QB, it was injuries that kept him down not talent.

And you can bring up any stats you want, on paper, I will be the 1st one to say it's not that impressive.

But you know what? Go back and watch those games.

That guy's a winner. Period.

You should embrace him as the hero he is for not only chi-town, but the very sport of football itself.

The guy is an American icon. They should make a movie about him.

Oh, and just to be clear, I'm not saying Orton is Slingin Sammy Baugh or anything, I'm just saying that it was fairly obvious the guy is a much better game manager than Grossman, a lot of people don't understand the complexity (or by some accounts lack thereof) of the position itself.

However, having said all that there are two things I want you to absorb, because they are fact:

1. Jim McMahon is the best kept secret at his position during his time in the sport, bar non, and even if he never gets in the HOF, he will be remembered amongst the true gridiron fans, people who understand the sport itself, coaches, players, and ultimately pop culture in America itself 100 years from now. Morseo than QB's who will probably get that distinction of neing in the HOF.

and

2...(now listen very close) The 1985 Chicago Bears are the single greatest single season Football team ever, period.

The strength was that the passing game is always underrated and underestimated by the opposing team.

The REASON it wasn't a dynasty wasn't Jim's beat up body, nor was it Mike's uncompromising attitude, nor was it Buddy's moxie to a fault, it was MANAGEMENT. Yeah, I know, it sucks, but it's true.

You can thank McCaskey for that.

I suggest reading the McMahon book.

p.s. For all McMahon fans out there and all real Bears, the best football game I've ever seen the bears weren't in, but you know those games that you don't care about who's in them, they're just that damn good because you're a fan of the sport of America football? Well on November 10, 1991 the Bll Belichick coached Cleveland Browns hosted the ailing 1991 Philadelphia Eagles QB'd by comeback player of the year James Robert McMahon, who was exiled by his home of Chi-Town...they were down 23-0 at the half. McMahon was basically duct-taped together. Well, look it up, it's often never talked about because probably McMahon's rebel image, even though the guy is a great family man. He just represented idividuality in a time that would not allow it, but he was and still is "all man and a yard wide".

The best football game I've ever seen on any level. Dude, say what you want, check this game out, it should be spotlighted on NFL Network.

p.s. to the idiot who said McMahon's passes were bad, I'm not saying they were rockets, but you're really underestimating his touch, that ball was easy to catch.

Hey guys...I was thinking about what I wrote earlier, and I stand by every bit of it. I just frustrated with people who don't know enough or understand how good Jimmy really was, I don't care what the stats say. The guy is a winner, period.

However, having said all that, I probably shouldn't have ripped Rex Grossman like that, I know the man has a family and I respect anybody who gears up and gets on a football field, and I'm sure he did his best.

I hear he's taking a physical for the Texans and I wish him the best in the future, he's just no McMahon that's all, but his playing days aren't done.

God bless*